Official X-Men: The Last Stand Review Thread [SPOILERS!]

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

With 10 being the best and 1 being the worst, how would you rate X-Men: The Last Stand?

10
3
3%
9
4
4%
8
20
18%
7
27
24%
6
18
16%
5
12
11%
4
9
8%
3
7
6%
2
3
3%
1
5
4%
I will not be seeing this/I am waiting for DVD
6
5%
 
Total votes : 114

Postby athenabodicea on Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:55 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:And the blood, is that just one of those inexplicable movie continuity errors...like the healing shirt and the non-removable pants?

The X-Men movies are pretty bloodless, so I'm probably just answering my own question here.

It's odd that his bone claws would cause pain and bleeding, if it was something he was born with, you would think his hand would then be designed for it, like a cat's are.


He didnt have the healing factor until he got the adamantium... Wolverine did bleed in the comics... I swear I remember that....but he healed himself almost instantly. Wolverine's healing factor allowed him to heal most wounds over time. Smaller cuts heal almost instantly and even deadly wounds will heal if given enough time.... At least this was my understanding... ??? Am I wrong?? I remember blood.... Anybody??
I need answers here...lol
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:00 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:Baxter's explanation about how it takes deep cuts a second to bleed to the surface works for me. After all, the second the cut happens, his healing factor kicks in.

The adamantium claws never bled in the comics, most likely for the same reasons as the movie: bloodless is funness


I guess that would explain why he bleeds all over them at Alkali Lake, perhaps his healing factor is in overdrive thanks to all that new adamantium?

Ha ha, my friend just sent me the same thing:
Friend of Lady Sheridan wrote:See, my theory would be that the green goo they had him in was designed to inhibit his regeneration so that he didn't heal too quicky when they were performing surgery. So when he broke out, he was bleeding because his regeneration was still hidered from the goo.


I still frown on the bone claws story, because if he was born with it, healing factor or not, I still think his hand should have mutated with it so he could unsheathe them without a problem. :?
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:04 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:I still frown on the bone claws story, because if he was born with it, healing factor or not, I still think his hand should have mutated with it so he could unsheathe them without a problem. :?

Well, why don't you just take that up with Evolution. :D
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:05 pm

athenabodicea wrote:He didnt have the healing factor until he got the adamantium... Wolverine did bleed in the comics... I swear I remember that....but he healed himself almost instantly. Wolverine's healing factor allowed him to heal most wounds over time. Smaller cuts heal almost instantly and even deadly wounds will heal if given enough time.... At least this was my understanding... ??? Am I wrong?? I remember blood.... Anybody??
I need answers here...lol


But he always had the healing factor, that's why he was able to withstand the adamantium add-ons...right?

And then it was revealed that he had even better healing once the admantium was removed because it was poisonous, but now he has it back...or something.
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Postby TonyWilson on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:05 pm

Re: the issue about why it hurts when his claws pop out

Perhaps it's the fact they are coated in adamantium that makes them hurt. Or, possibly, teething hurts even though that is a nautral process.
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:06 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:I still frown on the bone claws story, because if he was born with it, healing factor or not, I still think his hand should have mutated with it so he could unsheathe them without a problem. :?

Well, why don't you just take that up with Evolution. :D


Ha ha, I shall! I shall write a stern letter, post-haste, with helpful diagrams and suggestions for further improvement!
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:09 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:
MasterWhedon wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:I still frown on the bone claws story, because if he was born with it, healing factor or not, I still think his hand should have mutated with it so he could unsheathe them without a problem. :?

Well, why don't you just take that up with Evolution. :D


Ha ha, I shall! I shall write a stern letter, post-haste, with helpful diagrams and suggestions for further improvement!

When you do, ask what the thought process was behind this:

Image

'Cause I'd really like to know.
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Postby TonyWilson on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:12 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:
MasterWhedon wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:I still frown on the bone claws story, because if he was born with it, healing factor or not, I still think his hand should have mutated with it so he could unsheathe them without a problem. :?

Well, why don't you just take that up with Evolution. :D


Ha ha, I shall! I shall write a stern letter, post-haste, with helpful diagrams and suggestions for further improvement!

When you do, ask what the thought process was behind this:

Image

'Cause I'd really like to know.



Here it in a nutshell MW, he can drive, play guitar, play tennis, rugby, baseball etc etc, all while beating off. The kid is a god among insects.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:13 pm

TonyWilson wrote:Here it in a nutshell MW, he can drive, play guitar, play tennis, rugby, baseball etc etc, all while beating off. The kid is a god among insects.

:shock:

Where do I sign for one?
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:14 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
TonyWilson wrote:Here it in a nutshell MW, he can drive, play guitar, play tennis, rugby, baseball etc etc, all while beating off. The kid is a god among insects.

:shock:

Where do I sign for one?


Evolution says no....

*cough*
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Postby athenabodicea on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:16 pm

I dont remember alot of what happened but I do remember that he lost all his healing abilities (and other powers) when Magneto stripped him of the adamantium.. I really dont know the history prior to him having the adamantium added to his body.... I thought the power to heal came with the adamantium and that there wasn't much known about Wolverine prior to the experiment....?? But now that you mentioned it, I do remember reading somewhere about him being able to withstand the adamantium add-ons and that being because of the healing factor...??? This stuff is so overly complicted sometimes...:roll: lol
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Postby athenabodicea on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:19 pm

A-ha.

Thank you wikipedia....

"the adamantium in Wolverine's skeleton was forcibly removed by the supervillain Magneto. The act inflicted injuries to Wolverine's body so devastating that his mutant healing factor burned itself out in order to keep him alive. As a result, many of Wolverine's other natural mutant abilities such as his heightened senses, strength, stamina and agility were burned out as well. Soon thereafter, it was revealed that Wolverine's claws were actually made of bone and part of his mutation, not created by the Weapon X program (this revelation would be later revisited in the Weapon X serial and the Origin limited series). For the next several issues, Wolverine would be unable to extrude these bone claws without severe tissue damage and blood loss which would force him to wear heavy bandages on his hands and forearms (whereas any damage caused would have normally been healed instantly). However, it was revealed that after his body recovered from the trauma, his mutation actually began to accelerate. As a result, Wolverine not only regained his normal superhuman abilities, but discovered that his powers had actually increased from what they had been beforehand. Eventually, it was revealed that adamantium was highly toxic. This meant Wolverine had been able to use only a fraction of his healing power, since the rest was constantly healing the poison released by the adamantium. Unfortunately, these changes also made Wolverine more feral."

you were right there LS..
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:23 pm

Go to the X men Discussion thread please guys. This convo doesn't belong here. It's getting pretty boring.
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Postby Shane on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:23 pm

That was a horrible span of wolvie, that's about where I stopped picking the book up. After 75, wolveriene started to suck.
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:33 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Go to the X men Discussion thread please guys. This convo doesn't belong here. It's getting pretty boring.


Kirk, why do you need to make us feel bad about ourselves?! Some of us are already struggling with how much time they spent on this topic. :cry:

Maybe a mod can split it and move it if you ask nicely. :wink:
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:34 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Go to the X men Discussion thread please guys. This convo doesn't belong here. It's getting pretty boring.

Oh, sorry, I forgot you're the Mod of Movie Reviews...

Oh, wait.

That'd be me.

8)

It's a tagential conversation that stemmed from discussion of the movie, still very much on topic or close enough to it.

Don't be a wanker.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:35 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:Maybe a mod can split it and move it if you ask nicely. :wink:

We don't really need to, unless you forsee the conversation continuing. As it is, I think it's something that's been resolved.

NEXT TOPIC!!
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:35 pm

He said if this topic continues on this angle he'll eat my face. Does anyone want Kirk to eat my face?
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:36 pm

AtomicHyperbole wrote:He said if this topic continues on this angle he'll eat my face. Does anyone want Kirk to eat my face?

Does it mean you'll stop arguing with Tony?

Then yes.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:38 pm

I DON'T NEED MY FACE TO TOUCHTYPE!

HA!
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Postby Flumm on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:44 pm

OK, I realise now this would have been a better time for a "not everyone heals/types as fast you Logan/AH" type joke...

Fucking linear time continuims.

:x
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:25 pm

Just a quick chime in on Wolvie's shirt. It doesn't heal. You see
his wounds heal, but the holes remain in the shirt. I thought that was
a clever / interesting visual effect.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:31 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Just a quick chime in on Wolvie's shirt. It doesn't heal. You see
his wounds heal, but the holes remain in the shirt. I thought that was
a clever / interesting visual effect.

Right, but Dino commented that in the scene later, when Magneto is suspending Wolvie in mid-air and he slowly floats forward, the shirt is whole.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:35 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutio ns wrote:Just a quick chime in on Wolvie's shirt. It doesn't heal. You see
his wounds heal, but the holes remain in the shirt. I thought that was
a clever / interesting visual effect.

Right, but Dino commented that in the scene later, when Magneto is suspending Wolvie in mid-air and he slowly floats forward, the shirt is whole.


Oh! Oops. I completely missed that...
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Postby Shane on Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:46 pm

He might keep a change of clothes in the jet.

eh? eh?
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Postby DennisMM on Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:31 pm

athenabodicea wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:And the blood, is that just one of those inexplicable movie continuity errors...like the healing shirt and the non-removable pants?

The X-Men movies are pretty bloodless, so I'm probably just answering my own question here.

It's odd that his bone claws would cause pain and bleeding, if it was something he was born with, you would think his hand would then be designed for it, like a cat's are.


He didnt have the healing factor until he got the adamantium... Wolverine did bleed in the comics... I swear I remember that....but he healed himself almost instantly. Wolverine's healing factor allowed him to heal most wounds over time. Smaller cuts heal almost instantly and even deadly wounds will heal if given enough time.... At least this was my understanding... ??? Am I wrong?? I remember blood.... Anybody??
I need answers here...lol


No, his healing factor is his primary mutation, along with his heightened senses, somewhat heightened strength and of course the claws.

All the adamantium did was bond to his skeleton. In bonding with his claws it reshaped them somewhat, covering irregularities so the claws had a smooth surface. Early on they were shaped like an animal's claw, with only the tip having a tearing/ripping point. By the early '80s they decided to make his claws look like the "knives" seen in the movies. The first place I remember seeing that is in the Chris Claremont/Frank Miller Wolverine miniseries. Over the years the portrayal has been inconsistent. His organic claws, as seen in a number of stories, are very similar in shape to a canine or feline claw.

(This all came in the wake of Len Wein's conception. Wolverine as created had claws built into his gloves. That's why the little shell-shaped objects are there. If memory serves, Claremont introduced the healing factor; in early issues of Uncanny Wolverine is just very, very tough. Also, as created Wolverine was a rookie government agent, a fresh soldier about 19 years old. This was in 1974.)

I don't remember seeing blood from the adamantium claws, but I was out of the scene during the whole "Wolvie loses his metal" storyline. He didn't react unusually when he popped his claws during a fight with the Hulk, but that was outside the X-books. A great moment in that story is when Wolvie rakes the gray Hulk with his claws and the Hulk asks, "What're those? Bone?" Wolvie gets a sheepish look on his face before Hulk belts him.

Although Barry Windsor Smith's 1991 Weapon X does not appear to be canonical (damn those memory implants!), it was the first place I ever saw Logan's claws cause him to bleed. When he comes out of the adamantium chamber, he is truly unhinged and the claws are popped. They are pointed at the tip but are not blade-like. Logan's hands are streaming with blood. The medical team that has been bonding the adamamtium is shocked to see the claws. This, they realize, explains the usual drain of adamantium to the hands and wrists noted during the bonding.
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Postby athenabodicea on Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:41 pm

I <3 you Dennis....

I was confused... What I could remember is that the adamantium helped 100 times more with his healing factor something to do with his blood cell regeneration and the marrow.... But sounds more like I have it the other way around...

It really was that the adamantium hindered blood cell growth but the healing factor counteracted that.. Am I getting closer here??? lol

It was so long ago that I remember reading these... and the movies just seem different....

Thanks Dennis for the clarification... this has been driving me crazy all afternoon... ;)
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:58 pm

Shane wrote:He might keep a change of clothes in the jet.

eh? eh?


Ha ha! Of course! I bet he has a whole trunkful of wifebeaters on the X-Jet...
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Postby doglips on Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:07 pm

Well a week of zoner reviews has past and I have to say I'm getting a little worried about watching this film -
are there any fucking Jedi in it or what?
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Postby Leckomaniac on Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:00 pm

Alright. Well I just got back from seeing X3 for the second time. I figured that I should see it again, knowing that I would disappointed, then perhaps I could just enjoy the film for what it was...a sub-par edition to an otherwise excellent franchise.

I must say that while I was able to enjoy it a bit more...I just couldn't stop thinking about what an amazing film it COULD have been. I know I should try to judge a film on what it IS and not what it COULD be...but in this case I just couldn't help it.

At this point...I just can't wait until 29 years down the line when MW will give us the X-Men film we deserve.

Oh and MW...I will be giving you notes for that film...so be prepared.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:18 am

Leckomaniac wrote:At this point...I just can't wait until 29 years down the line when MW will give us the X-Men film we deserve.

Oh and MW...I will be giving you notes for that film...so be prepared.

HAHAHAHA!!

Don't worry, I'm jotting it all down.
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Postby austenandrews on Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:35 am

I stopped reading the X-Men not long after Byrne left the title (and I think The New Mutants was the only other title). Right around the time he stopped being the Gruff Lieutenant and started being the Lone Antihero. Back then there was no pain or blood or any such Iron Age angst concerning the claws. As I recall, at first the X-Men didn't even realize his claws weren't part of his costume. Then they figured the metal skeleton was part of his mutation. At that time the claws had a rounded cross-section; they weren't flat knives until the 80's Japanophile fad turned them into little samurai swords. Heck, it wasn't until Alpha Flight showed up that he even had a name besides Wolverine.

athenabodicea is correct that his healing factor wasn't always super-insta-healing. He'd come out of battle with scrapes like anyone else. The "mutant healing factor" was just a handy heal-faster-than-normal thing, not remotely a primary mutant power. (I'm pretty sure the Beast had a similar healing factor.) His primary powers were his bestial senses and physical prowess, plus his metal claws and skeleton.

Of course it's easy enough to dismiss all that as ancient history, but that was the Wolverine of the Dark Phoenix saga. And no, I don't recall Phoenix having a single romantic thought about the short, hairy, foul-tempered little cigar chomper.
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Postby RogueScribner on Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:36 am

Something to remember for your ultimate X-Men film, MW . . . ample cleavage!
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Postby DennisMM on Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:46 am

Last word on why Wolverine's hands don't bleed in the comics. It's because of these:

Image

I don't remember seeing these since the '80s, but John Cassaday is drawing them, so I assume they are canon once again. In addition to the other modifications Logan received during the Weapon X project, ports were implanted in his hands to ease the claws' exit. These ports were infrequently seen on Logan's exposed hands, but they sit just below the surface of the skin. When he pops the claws, the ports rise up from the subdermal area and iris open. The ports line up exactly with the ports on his gloves. When Logan retracts his claws, the irises scrape free any foreign matter. They also form a hermetic seal which prevents air from entering his wrists and forearms. Why his hands don't bleed when the ports rise I can't say. At one time they supposedly were visible, as flattened curves, at all times. They must be connected to tendons that make them rise.

At least this is how technical writer Eliot R. Brown explained things. You can verify all the above by checking with teh Balm, who now has my copies of The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe.

As austenandrews writes above, at one time the healing factor was a pretty small part of Wolverine's bag of tricks. The claws and the ferocity were at the top, then the enhanced senses. We first saw his claws pop from his hands when the Sentinels attacked the gang while they were skating at Rockefeller Plaza. I think that was #98 -- my Uncanny collection now consists of #139-143, plus a couple of annuals. I remember that Banshee freaked.

We now return you to actual discussion of the movie. I hope.
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Postby DennisMM on Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:26 pm

Am I the only one who loved The Beast? I'm not seeing much comment here.

Why couldn't they have added ten minutes of Beast to fill out the short running time? While I'd never imagined Hank stuffed into a suit with the voice of Kelsey Grammer, the writing of the character and Grammer's performance worked wonderfully for me. He seemed friendly, witty, just the right amount of stuffy. I loved his comment that he once actually fit into his proto-uniform.

Physically, I was pleasantly surprised. When I first saw photos of Grammer I thought he looked all right, but mostly like Grammer with facial paint and fur. It wasn't until after I'd read he wears seven pieces of facial prosthetics that I saw more closely where the changes were made. Under all of that, to me, he still looked just like Kelsey Grammer. I don't know if that's a testimony to the makeup people or Grammer's ability to act through the latex. The action bits, while minimal, looked more natural than the wire-fu we saw in the trailers. I wish there had been more of that and hope that when Fox revives the series they find a way to fit in more Beast (though Grammer probably will be too old by that time).
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Postby wheredidigo111 on Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:53 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:Alright. Well I just got back from seeing X3 for the second time. I figured that I should see it again, knowing that I would disappointed, then perhaps I could just enjoy the film for what it was...a sub-par edition to an otherwise excellent franchise.

I must say that while I was able to enjoy it a bit more...I just couldn't stop thinking about what an amazing film it COULD have been. I know I should try to judge a film on what it IS and not what it COULD be...but in this case I just couldn't help it.

At this point...I just can't wait until 29 years down the line when MW will give us the X-Men film we deserve.

Oh and MW...I will be giving you notes for that film...so be prepared.


That will never happen. Now that this movie has made so much money Marvel now thinks that this kind of movie what X-men movies should be. In fact thanks to the so called fans Marvel is thinking that plotles X-men movie are better then one with plot and the Phoenix saga was a waste of time. Thanks so called X-men fans. Thank for putting all your so much money in this piece of crap and now marvel is going to make more pieces of crap. Thank you so much. We'll never will see a good X-Men movie because of you. And the Phoenix saga is dead to Hollywood forever. And yes no more respect for you so called X-Fans.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:00 pm

wheredidigo111 wrote:That will never happen. Now that this movie has made so much money Marvel now thinks that this kind of movie what X-men movies should be. In fact thanks to the so called fans Marvel is thinking that plotles X-men movie are better then one with plot and the Phoenix saga was a waste of time. Thanks so called X-men fans. Thank for putting all your so much money in this piece of crap and now marvel is going to make more pieces of crap. Thank you so much. We'll never will see a good X-Men movie because of you. And the Phoenix saga is dead to Hollywood forever. And yes no more respect for you so called X-Fans.

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You're welcome to express your opinion, but you're not welcome to put down those who liked the film in order to do so.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:07 pm

OK...I finally saw this thing. I give it a 5 out of 10. To be fair, there were some pretty nice moments...but the eye rolling moments beat them out by at least 2 to 1. And while I was entertained from time to time, my ultimate feeling walking out of the movie wasn't "WOW" or "that sucked"...it was "Wait...seriously???" But here's how it breaks down for me. Top 3 things/moments.

1) Colossus grabbing Rogue to turn her into metal/protect her. Would have been 10 times cooler if Kitty hadn't immediately done the same thing with Bobby 5 seconds later.

2) Jean Grey looking uber creepy in Phoenix mode. Her powers kinda sucked (I make water flow upwards everywhere I go...FEAR ME!!!) but the bitch looked scary.

3) Magneto. From his first scene (I liked the age reduction) to the last (I can live w/ the "twist"), Mags rocked the house. Him vs military caravan was far better than the Bridge Scene. Only issue I really had was what he wore in the opening scene. Ian McKellen might sport a purple suit and cape...but Magneto? Eh...no.

What didn't I like?

-The flow and pacing.
-The cure storyline was fucking boring (Phoenix was just much more interesting to me).
-The Psylocke Syndrome (giving an Asian chick a purple hair stripe and claiming she's Psylocke)...this goes for practically every background character in the movie.
-I don't care what anyone says, that was not a Sentinel.
-James Marsden giving his best Tom Cruise impression
-Maddrox giving his best Ray Liotta impression
-In this day and age, how the hell did a President with such a noticable lisp/speech impediment get elected.....oh wait.....
-Apparently when you transfer your mind into someone elses body, you get to bring your vocal chords with you.
-Rogue being allowed back into the school even though she's no longer a mutant...or wait...is she?!?!?!?


Overall, bleh with moments of oooh. But moments don't make a movie, and that's what this felt like....moments strung together until they reached feature length.
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Postby wheredidigo111 on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:10 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
wheredidigo111 wrote:That will never happen. Now that this movie has made so much money Marvel now thinks that this kind of movie what X-men movies should be. In fact thanks to the so called fans Marvel is thinking that plotles X-men movie are better then one with plot and the Phoenix saga was a waste of time. Thanks so called X-men fans. Thank for putting all your so much money in this piece of crap and now marvel is going to make more pieces of crap. Thank you so much. We'll never will see a good X-Men movie because of you. And the Phoenix saga is dead to Hollywood forever. And yes no more respect for you so called X-Fans.

The Zone's mantra is "No Hate, Just Debate." Learn it, live it, love it.

You're welcome to express your opinion, but you're not welcome to put down those who liked the film in order to do so.


Hey look I'm sorry. But you do know that why Hollywood will never make a good X-Men movie or even make the Phoenix saga. Because Hollywood thinks with it wallet not with it's brain. When you put more money in to it Hollywood will make more. But when you put less money in then Hollywood will think and try to make it better.
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Postby Fried Gold on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:24 pm

So you want people to make their minds up about a film before seeing it; not go to see it which might lower the box office performance and so Hollywood will in some way learn to make the film you want?

Even if the big fans of the X-Men comics decided not to see it, there would still be more than enough people left over to make it a financial success.

They were what they were. If you don't like them, don't bother to watch them again.
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Postby wheredidigo111 on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:41 pm

Fried Gold wrote:So you want people to make their minds up about a film before seeing it; not go to see it which might lower the box office performance and so Hollywood will in some way learn to make the film you want?

Even if the big fans of the X-Men comics decided not to see it, there would still be more than enough people left over to make it a financial success.

They were what they were. If you don't like them, don't bother to watch them again.


Well 1st of all this is a movie that you guy wanted. And all I'm saying is that you'll never get it. Befor this movie came out all I heard is how you guys wanted the Phoenix saga on the big screen. But now I hear is that this is not the movie that you wanted to see but for some reson you put more money in to it. And now Hollywood is saying that maybe the fans don't what they want. sents movies that seemed to disappoint fan and leve them with nothing make more money then movie that tryes to work with fans. Well let's just cut the fans out. We can make more money that way.

Like the Phoenix saga. Well sentes the fans wanted the Phoenix saga so bad and they cut it out a disappointing plot and made more money that way. It seems that Hollywood now looks as if it don't have to work with fans anymore. Sents they can make more money that way.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:41 pm

wheredidigo111 wrote:
MasterWhedon wrote:
wheredidigo111 wrote:That will never happen. Now that this movie has made so much money Marvel now thinks that this kind of movie what X-men movies should be. In fact thanks to the so called fans Marvel is thinking that plotles X-men movie are better then one with plot and the Phoenix saga was a waste of time. Thanks so called X-men fans. Thank for putting all your so much money in this piece of crap and now marvel is going to make more pieces of crap. Thank you so much. We'll never will see a good X-Men movie because of you. And the Phoenix saga is dead to Hollywood forever. And yes no more respect for you so called X-Fans.

The Zone's mantra is "No Hate, Just Debate." Learn it, live it, love it.

You're welcome to express your opinion, but you're not welcome to put down those who liked the film in order to do so.


Hey look I'm sorry. But you do know that why Hollywood will never make a good X-Men movie or even make the Phoenix saga. Because Hollywood thinks with it wallet not with it's brain. When you put more money in to it Hollywood will make more. But when you put less money in then Hollywood will think and try to make it better.


I really hate the kind of logic you've got going here. Yes, Hollywood thinks with it's wallet. But that's also how film audiences express interest...with their wallet. X3 had a great opening weekend (and probably a great 2nd weekend) b/c the movie going public wanted to see it. They were interested in the film and continue to be. That equels success because it IS success.

Just b/c you didn't like X3 (and I didn't like X3) or b/c you didn't get a more direct adaptation of a 30 yr old comic book...doesn't mean the movie was bad or that the franchise is doomed forever. Know how I know this? B/C I know the rest of the movie going public aren't morons just b/c they disagree with me. If you don't like the X-movies, don't watch them. It's the comic book that earned your love. Those stories aren't going anywhere. Don't get pissy just b/c someone isn't willing to spend millions to put them on the screen just the way you want. And if they did , I promise they'd never reach the level of your imagination.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:45 pm

wheredidigo111 wrote:Well 1st of all this is a movie that you guy wanted. And all I'm saying is that you'll never get it. Befor this movie came out all I heard is how you guys wanted the Phoenix saga on the big screen. But now I hear is that this is not the movie that you wanted to see but for some reson you put more money in to it. And now Hollywood is saying that maybe the fans don't what they want. sents movies that seemed to disappoint fan and leve them with nothing make more money then movie that tryes to work with fans. Well let's just cut the fans out. We can make more money that way.

Like the Phoenix saga. Well sentes the fans wanted the Phoenix saga so bad and they cut it out a disappointing plot and made more money that way. It seems that Hollywood now looks as if it don't have to work with fans anymore. Sents they can make more money that way.


Got news for ya, buddy. They are making these movies for the fans. But the fans have evolved...you now share these beloved comic characters with a general audience. They are the fans, too. This isn't an exclusive club anymore.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:48 pm

Ginger, my brother, I second.
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Postby Coldfire24 on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:50 pm

wheredidigo111 wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:So you want people to make their minds up about a film before seeing it; not go to see it which might lower the box office performance and so Hollywood will in some way learn to make the film you want?

Even if the big fans of the X-Men comics decided not to see it, there would still be more than enough people left over to make it a financial success.

They were what they were. If you don't like them, don't bother to watch them again.


Well 1st of all this is a movie that you guy wanted. And all I'm saying is that you'll never get it. Befor this movie came out all I heard is how you guys wanted the Phoenix saga on the big screen. But now I hear is that this is not the movie that you wanted to see but for some reson you put more money in to it. And now Hollywood is saying that maybe the fans don't what they want. sents movies that seemed to disappoint fan and leve them with nothing make more money then movie that tryes to work with fans. Well let's just cut the fans out. We can make more money that way.

Like the Phoenix saga. Well sentes the fans wanted the Phoenix saga so bad and they cut it out a disappointing plot and made more money that way. It seems that Hollywood now looks as if it don't have to work with fans anymore. Sents they can make more money that way.



Whoa I type better than you when my BAC is higher 4
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Postby wheredidigo111 on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:58 pm

1st of all I'm going to stop talking. Do to the fact that it's going nowhere with you guy. But I do have one last thing to say. Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. Batman Forever was a big disappoint to fans but put more money in to it. And because of that Hollywood saids lets stop listening to the Bat-fans. But the Bat-fans keep going to Batman Forever and hated anyone who hated the film. And what did they get for there haerd work. I think well all know what it was. It was that pice of crap called Batman & Robin. Thanck to the fans Joel Schumacher stayed on and the Bat-fans got one of the worst movie in history. One who does not learn from ones past is BOOMED to repeat it. That's all I have to say.
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Postby DennisMM on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:59 pm

wheredidigo111 wrote:Well 1st of all this is a movie that you guy wanted. And all I'm saying is that you'll never get it. Befor this movie came out all I heard is how you guys wanted the Phoenix saga on the big screen. But now I hear is that this is not the movie that you wanted to see but for some reson you put more money in to it. And now Hollywood is saying that maybe the fans don't what they want. sents movies that seemed to disappoint fan and leve them with nothing make more money then movie that tryes to work with fans. Well let's just cut the fans out. We can make more money that way.

Like the Phoenix saga. Well sentes the fans wanted the Phoenix saga so bad and they cut it out a disappointing plot and made more money that way. It seems that Hollywood now looks as if it don't have to work with fans anymore. Sents they can make more money that way.


I'd like to make two quick points.

1. Very few of us wanted, much less expected a comic-book style "Phoenix Saga" to happen in a movie. That would involve cosmic forces and space travel and a Jean who can eat suns, hardly the province of the relatively grounded series. Having seen X-Men and X2, did you really think you would see a Phoenix story that resembled Claremont/Byrne in any but the most superficial way? To do so would be unreasonable. They will not completely change the tone of the series in that way. It would lose the large, non-comic-fan, audience that is needed for a $150 million movie to make any money.

2. Not to pile on the personal criticism, but the word is "since," not "sents" or "sentes." While a certain amount of poor spelling and grammar seeps into almost everyone's posts, your continued failure to spell correctly this and other common words (doomed, not BOOMED, for one) makes you appear less credible. Those who write well come across as more intelligent and coherent and so more reasonable. My sincerest apologies if English is not your first language. If it is, you might want to work on your writing skills.
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -- Noam Chomsky
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Postby Adam Balm on Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:01 pm

wheredidigo111 wrote:1st of all I'm going to stop talking. Do to the fact that it's going nowhere with you guy. But I do have one last thing to say. Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. Batman Forever was a big disappoint to fans but put more money in to it. And because of that Hollywood saids lets stop listening to the Bat-fans. But the Bat-fans keep going to Batman Forever and hated anyone who hated the film. And what did they get for there haerd work. I think well all know what it was. It was that pice of crap called Batman & Robin. Thanck to the fans Joel Schumacher stayed on and the Bat-fans got one of the worst movie in history. One who does not learn from ones past is BOOMED to repeat it. That's all I have to say.


This post makes no sents to me.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:03 pm

DennisMM wrote:
wheredidigo111 wrote:Well 1st of all this is a movie that you guy wanted. And all I'm saying is that you'll never get it. Befor this movie came out all I heard is how you guys wanted the Phoenix saga on the big screen. But now I hear is that this is not the movie that you wanted to see but for some reson you put more money in to it. And now Hollywood is saying that maybe the fans don't what they want. sents movies that seemed to disappoint fan and leve them with nothing make more money then movie that tryes to work with fans. Well let's just cut the fans out. We can make more money that way.

Like the Phoenix saga. Well sentes the fans wanted the Phoenix saga so bad and they cut it out a disappointing plot and made more money that way. It seems that Hollywood now looks as if it don't have to work with fans anymore. Sents they can make more money that way.


I'd like to make two quick points.

1. Very few of us wanted, much less expected a comic-book style "Phoenix Saga" to happen in a movie. That would involve cosmic forces and space travel and a Jean who can eat suns, hardly the province of the relatively grounded series. Having seen X-Men and X2, did you really think you would see a Phoenix story that resembled Claremont/Byrne in any but the most superficial way? To do so would be unreasonable. They will not completely change the tone of the series in that way. It would lose the large, non-comic-fan, audience that is needed for a $150 million movie to make any money.

2. Not to pile on the personal criticism, but the word is "since," not "sents" or "sentes." While a certain amount of poor spelling and grammar seeps into almost everyone's posts, your continued failure to spell correctly this and other common words (doomed, not BOOMED, for one) makes you appear less credible. Those who write well come across as more intelligent and coherent and so more reasonable. My sincerest apologies if English is not your first language. If it is, you might want to work on your writing skills.


I love you guys but this is why we have no new friends...

WE need to figure out a way to ease them in better. They come from reading the talkbacks and they are all riled up expecting it to be like that in here too. There should be a timeframe where all they can do is read and not post. Then they get the vibe and then every one can be mellow and proper
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Postby wheredidigo111 on Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:10 pm

Adam Balm wrote:
wheredidigo111 wrote:1st of all I'm going to stop talking. Do to the fact that it's going nowhere with you guy. But I do have one last thing to say. Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. Batman Forever was a big disappoint to fans but put more money in to it. And because of that Hollywood saids lets stop listening to the Bat-fans. But the Bat-fans keep going to Batman Forever and hated anyone who hated the film. And what did they get for there haerd work. I think well all know what it was. It was that pice of crap called Batman & Robin. Thanck to the fans Joel Schumacher stayed on and the Bat-fans got one of the worst movie in history. One who does not learn from ones past is BOOMED to repeat it. That's all I have to say.


This post makes no sents to me.


I'm sorry. I sould have said like Batman Forever is to X-men the Last Stand. And may Batman & Robin maybe is going be like X4. And the fact that this has happen before.
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