MAN OF STEEL

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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:34 pm

Only 62 reviews thus far, but Man of Steel is trending lower on RT -> 65% at the moment. Was hoping that the story would back up the awesomeness that was the second trailer (the last bit of promo I watched), but this only serves to lower my expectations once I see the film. Still very much looking forward to this! YAY!
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby RogueScribner on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:24 pm

I hope it doesn't suck because I got roped into seeing it twice this weekend, tickets already paid for. I've listened to a lot of Zimmer's score and still not sure if I like it. It sounds like a lot of his other stuff. Ambient and percussive for the most part. I'm sure it'll work fine within the context of the film, but it's certainly not something I think I'll listen to otherwise.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:07 pm

So, another Superman movie is coming up! The last time that happened, I got into one of my biggest Zone arguments over its merits (and box office performance). Ah, the good ol' days.

I am really excited to see this Friday on IMAX. Hope it delivers.

(Though I can do without every reviewer belittling SR when they review this film. Why must they reopen these old wounds!)
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby BuckyO'harre on Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:54 pm

X3 vs SR was an argument we all lost.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby TheBaxter on Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:13 pm

X-Men: Days of Future Past makes Man of Steel look like shit
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:16 pm

BuckyO'harre wrote:X3 vs SR was an argument we all lost.


For shits and giggles I may revisit those threads. I very clearly recall a rather contentious argument I had with Peven. For whatever reason, I think POTC might have been involved.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:42 pm

Awwww.

What happened to my superman punch?
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby BuckyO'harre on Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:49 pm

Oh very well, share it between you.


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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Leckomaniac on Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:00 pm

I don't share very well.

And fyi, I lost like an hour of my life looking through those old threads. Such fond memories.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Ribbons on Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:09 am

I'm not sure whether to attribute the apparent hour of CGI fistfights to Goyer's story being more of a treatment than a script when the movie was put into production, or to an over-correction on the part of the studio in response to Superman Returns's dullness; either way it sounds like Man of Steel is going to kick you in the nuts with action, over and over and over some more. So, gird your loins.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Fievel on Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:31 am

A buddy of mine posted this on Facebook, so I share with you all..... (although I've always thought of a "drum circle" as a bunch of hand drums, some dirty hippies, and usually some pot floating around)
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hans Zimmer recording a drum circle for the Man of Steel sound track. Ryeland Allison, Curt Bisquera, Jason Bonham, Danny Carey, Matt Chamberlain, Vinnie Colaiuta, Bernie Dresel, Josh Freese, Jim Keltner, Trevor Lawrence Jr., Toss Panos, Satnam Ramgotra, John "JR" Robinson, Sheila E., Pharrell Williams
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby RogueScribner on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:13 am

No wonder his music has been shit recently. He forgot what a wind and string instrument was!!!
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby TheButcher on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:58 am

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Re: MAN OF STEEL (now w/ 100% less Aronofsky)

Postby TheButcher on Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:36 pm

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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:19 pm

So I'm the first one to put in a review for this motherfucker? Okay then.

CARUSO REVIEWS MAN OF STEEL (spoilers [of steel])

This is the first Zack Snyder movie I've seen since WATCHMEN, so I'm not sure when he phased out his slow-motion action fetish. Regardless, I noticed a stunning lack of slow-motion action in this film. There are many instances of people being punched in the face.

The film opens with a lengthy sequence on Krypton where it goes through the motions a bit. Scientist urges council not to doom planet, council ignores scientist's pleas, Zod is an asshole, etc. There was a lot of explosioning in this section of the film and Russell Crowe riding a CGI flying monster while shit explodes all around him. It made me think Zack Snyder could do a decent STAR WARS movie, but I thought it was an odd choice to open the film with a lengthy action set piece and also there is some punching (more on this later).

I did appreciate that when baby Kal-El's spaceship gets to Earth they simply cut ahead to him as an adult working on a fishing boat. The filmmakers know that we know the Superman origin story, so they don't put us through it again. They do cut back several times to Clark's childhood to fill in the gaps. It reminded me a bit of BATMAN BEGINS in this regard. My only complaint about these scenes is that most of them were in the first couple trailers, so it would have been nice if they'd held back more on that stuff in the marketing, but what can you do. You gotta get Costner in the trailer, put some nice piano in there. You are my son!

Do I really have to run through the plot here? No, I'm not going to.

Eventually, Zod and his crew of outcasts who have been wandering the galaxy for 30 years land on Earth and Zod has grown a grayish goatee to show that he is older. I really enjoyed the sequence where Zod broadcasts his message to the peoples of Earth. I thought it had a good sinister tone. It was done well.

Some stuff happens and soon there are Kryptonians punching each other left and right. Zod briefly inconveniences Supes's mom bythrowing a truck through her house so Supes flies over and rams Zod through like grain silos (which explode), a cornfield (does not explode), and through a gas station (explodes) while yelling "Don't threaten my mother!" So the lesson here is you don't threaten Superman's mother. Dozens of innocent people will be maimed orkilled in multiple explosions.

This entire sequence is very loud. There are many very loud sequences in this film and this is one of them. Superman punches Faora in the face. She is hot. They probably shouldn't have had her encased in armor for the whole movie. A big dude throws a train at Superman. Is it product placement if two characters fight in an Ihop and tear the place to fucking pieces? Or when there is a shot with the Sears sign displayed prominently while everything is being destroyed? Smallville definitely qualifies for disaster relief by the end of this sequence. There are exploded jets all over the place. Hundreds are likely dead.

So what I'm saying is Superman really hasn't gotten the hang of protecting people in this film. He's still learning. You can't have a superhuman fistfight across Metropolis,toppling buildings, flying into space, beating up a satellite, sending the satellite to Earth where itburns up in the atmosphere and rains flaming debris all over the city without hurting a few innocent people.

But seeing as how Zod and his people were planning to kill every human on the planet, I guess this is a case of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few. Smallville and Metropolis, or the entire planet? It's a heartbreaking choice. Knock a few buildings down while you give it a think.

This is all starting to sound pretty snarky. I enjoyed this stuff, but the punching-people-through-stuff did wear a bit thin after a while. But there were many moments I really loved, like when studly Morpheus and Michael Kelly try to rescue whatsername from the rubble and they are about to be smooshed by... by the... the gravity thing, and they get real sad and hold hands because they are going to be flattened by a Kryptonian gravity beam thing and Superman is on the other side of the planet standing at the bottom of a gravity....beam....and he goes NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! and he flies up through the middle and the music swells and he flies into the big machine thing and he blows it up good and the planet is saved. I liked that.

There were other moments that kinda lost me. Like why wasLois on the plane with Colonel Stabler? Did they need her there to put thethingie in the bomb? Because Richard Schiff was able to do that just fine. I guess...well, I guess they needed her there because, you know, it's the end of the movie or whatever.

The most controversial scene and possibly most unintentionally amusing is when Pa Kent runs into the path of a tornado to save a fucking dog and then dies to protect his son's secret. Now, I don't mind that Pa Kent was killed by a tornado. The moment itself when Clark is about to go save him and Costner holds up hishandto stop him, man, that's pretty good stuff right there. But then he just stands there smiling while a tornado swallows him up. That was kinda funny. Also, he ran back to save the fucking dog, so fuck him.

But I liked the scene because it shows Pa Kent putting his theory into practice. Putting his money where his mouth is. He tells Clark that maybesome people have to die for him toprotect his secret. And here is Pa Kent sacrificing himself so that his sondoesn't reveal who he is at an inconvenient time. That takes balls right there, even if it is a little misguided.

Plus, you know, way to saddle your son with some major fucking guilt there, Jonny. Although the kid seems to have turned out all right.

I also liked the film's treatment of Zod. Here's a guy who you could just portray as a power-hungry asshole who would like to rule a planet and be a god and shit. But here they establish that Zod was born to be a soldier and protect his world. With his world destroyed he is obligated to save his people by committing genocide and turning the Earth into a new Krypton. They didn't have to say this in so many words, but they did, and then some. But I think they pulled it off. Shannon doesn't play the guy as a villain, but as a guy making the difficult decisions for the people he is sworn to protect. You know, like whenSuperman swore to protect human beings, but still has to accidentally let a few get brutally massacred because he had to punch this guy through a couple skyscrapers. It's all about perspective.

The last moment between Supes and Zod was pretty poignant I thought. Also, I really didn't expect him to just snap the motherfucker's neck like that. It's a pretty hardcore moment and in a Steven Seagal movie it would be a moment of triumph and worthy of a cheer, like when Hatcher broke Screwface over his knee and threw him down an elevator shaft at the end of MARKED FOR DEATH. But this is Kal-El killing one of his own, the last citizen of Krypton and he is appropriately bummed out about it. James Carville or whoever the fuck he is really made the scene work for me. His heartbreak and shit. He really didn't want tokill the guy,but he also didn't want to watch that family get melted if he could help it. Superman learns that it is easy to drop buildings on people, but watching them meltin front of your eyes is different.

I thought the film ended on just the right note. And I loved the "Welcome to the Planet" exchange. I look forward to future adventures of Man of Steel, even if Amy Adams's arms look like old lady arms.

I have more to say about this, I'm sure, but I'll wait until others put in their two cents and we can discuss it like civilized beings and not supermen punching each other through buildings.

The spice must flow!
Last edited by caruso_stalker217 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Ribbons on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:29 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:I have more to say about this, I'm sure, but I'll wait until others put in their two cents and we can discuss it like civilized beings and not supermen punching each other through buildings.


You're wrong and I hate you!

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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby RogueScribner on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:55 pm



I agree with everything Mark Waid said, though I think I enjoyed the movie a little more than he did (and mostly because of the first 2/3 of the film). I saw it today and will see it again tomorrow in IMAX (tickets are already paid for), but this movie does have a couple of serious problems in the last third. Problems I think will affect the enjoyment of many Superman fans.

Superman makes little to no effort to rescue people during the battles with Zod; there is much in the way of collateral damage and I'm sure many people died. He doesn't even try to swing the fight away from populated areas. Much is said about his weakness is that he cares about the humans, but they don't even play that up during the fight and try to put people in jeopardy to weaken his position in combat. Not that he seems to care anyway. And then Superman kills Zod in what is supposed to be a no-win scenario but it wasn't properly set up that way and the result is a bit of a mess.

Overall, I liked the movie. But i didn't love it. Amy Adams and Kevin Costner were both very good. Henry Cavill and Michael Shannon were okay. I was on board for the first 2/3. Then things slowly started to derail. I'm still debating if I'll bother with the Blu-ray down the road. The end very much is action porn. It out Michael Bays Michael Bay. It was a little tiring after a while and offered very little of Superman being Superman. First impressions: Superman Returns is the better movie. At least they knew what movie they were making.

3.5 / 5 stars
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:18 am

RogueScribner wrote: First impressions: Superman Returns is the better movie.


Agree with you on most of the other stuff, but I can't get behind this.

Spacey was good, though.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby BuckyO'harre on Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:25 am

I can't say it's a great film-- there are far too many things to pick at-- but it did make me want more of this Superman and that's the most important thing.

The cast is wonderful, although somewhat stiff at times with overcompensation to show they're taking the material seriously. I don't blame the actors alone for those moments though. Snyder should have caught that sort of thing, and a lot of the dialogue needed more polishing. Russel Crowe, however, nails it. He could have sold that part in a tutu.

Henry Cavill will make an excellent Superman. I say "will" because even though this isn't entirely an origin story, it still only covers the birth of the Superman ideal. The double-edged sword of the story is Kal's identity crisis. On the one hand, it thoroughly makes clear how vunerable he really is, but on the other, it doesn't leave enough room for him to be the symbol of hope. He's always being kicked around or agonizing over how he's had to use his powers. It's a film of growing pains and alienation. The few times he really seems to be Superman are all too brief chats with Lois or Gen. Swanwick.

The fights are done in grand style, and I think there are just two small reasons why they become monotonous: Firstly, the lack of concern for collateral damage, as Caruso and Rogue mentioned. We should see more effort and inventiveness from Kal to save some bystanders during the fighting, instead of only being concerned with the conclusion. And second, the limited and muted color palette of the finale. When Supes tangles with Faora and crew in Kansas, it's fantastic. Theres plenty of color and life to the environment. But the final battle with Zod has a dull palor that makes the digital nature more apparent and has the feel of a tennis match with the characters taking turns as the ball.

The plot got a bit too muddled at times, the villains often seeming to make things harder on themselves or act with little reason. Still, it's got spectacle in spades, and a sincere sort of optimism--heavily tempered by reality, which is the only kind I approve of usually. So all in all it's a mixed bag, but one I want to see a sequel to.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby DerLanghaarige on Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:52 am

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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Fievel on Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:15 am

I want Neill Cumpston's review.

The world needs it more than it needs Superman.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby RogueScribner on Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:43 pm

This movie did not hold up after a seconding viewing for me. Even with the added 3D IMAX experience, I was actually left more disappointed in the film than the first time around. That whole last third of the movie is basically a giant bucket of FAIL and it nearly kills the movie for me. But the first 2/3 were so good that I don't want to let it go without a fight. I just can't believe how royally they screwed things up in those last battles. There are so many EASY ways they could have not have fallen into the trap of empty spectacle, but it's like they didn't even care. Didn't David Goyer write some Superman comic books at one point? You'd think he'd know who Superman was and actually place him in the script!

Fuck. It's a C-grade film. It very easily could have been an A-/B+, but they decided to make a Transformers movie at the end and throw a red cape on it.

Bah.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby RogueScribner on Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:19 pm

And here is the purge of my brain regarding this movie:

Superman has always been a character that showed us how we can be a better people. He wasn't infallible; he could make mistakes. But he would pick himself up, brush himself off, and step right back up to the plate. Emotions could cloud his judgment at times (like with us all), but eventually he would realize his folly and do the right thing. Even if it meant he had sacrifice something or someone. The greater good always won it. Superman was not a selfish being.

The seeds of this recognizable incarnation of Superman were laid in Zack Snyder's Man of Steel. They probably could have let us in Clark's head a little more, to get a clear sense of his motivation, but what we were given was enough to move the story along. Unfortunately, that Superman checks out of the movie around the time he first battles Zod in Smallville. What we're left with is a Superman who only focuses on the task at hand (disabling the World Machine; saving Lois; defeating Zod) and has blinders to anything that could distract from that (innocent people in peril; collapsing skyscrapers; collateral damage). He conveniently remembers himself for a few minutes in the train station, but still doesn't act like himself. I don't know why, but Superman had a hell of an identity crisis about 2/3 of the way into the movie and he never recovered.

I saw the movie for a second time today in 3D IMAX. After my initial viewing, I felt entertained, I openly stated that I liked the movie, but did feel uncomfortable about a couple of things towards the end of the movie. I think the sheer amount of spectacle overwhelmed me that first time around and left me a bit dazed. I was hoping the second viewing would allow me to iron out those wrinkles, but free of the shock and awe of Snyder's 3rd act I found the problems I had were actually exacerbated. Yesterday I left the theater a little confused. Today, I left the theater outright disappointed.

Superman can't always avoid damaging property. I get that. But to my knowledge he's always been portrayed as someone who cared about the welfare of Earth's citizens and their homes and businesses. He wouldn't intentionally destroy a building just to try to get one over on a guy he's fighting. Yet, in this movie that is exactly what happens. Several times.

When the realization that innocent people are being placed in danger by his combatant, Superman also has been one to try to steer the fight somewhere else. Somewhere less populated. Outside of city limits. Out in open water. A rain forest. A volcano. Outer space. Somewhere where the chances of harming a large number of people is greatly reduced. Not in this movie. He never tries. And even when he does briefly move the fight into outer space, they immediately bring it right back to Metropolis to destroy more buildings and possibly kill hundreds if not thousands of more people.

Buildings topple over like a house of cards multiple times. By the end of everything, a huge empty crater is left in the center of Metropolis surrounded by hollowed out and burning skyscrapers. The death toll has to be astounding. Sure, a lot of that is purely the fault of Zod and his minions. But Superman caused some of that too. And not once is he ever shown realizing that he may be putting people in danger. Not once is he ever shown trying to move the fight elsewhere. Not once is he shown feeling bad about anything that is happening/has happened during the last battles. He freaks out over breaking Zod's neck, but that's it.

And really, why was that necessary? We've just spent the past hour of the movie watching Kryptonians jump and fly and punch at great speeds all over the place. Superman couldn't fly Zod out of the train station? Or slam him into the floor? Poke his eyes out? Something? I get what they were trying to do. I'm not a fan of the idea, but at least if it was presented well I'd have less problems with making Superman a killer. But they didn't make me believe Superman had no choice. They didn't sell it, so it didn't work, and thus it instantly became one of the worst points about the movie.

And with all this death and destruction, with all this talk of "is the world ready for Superman," what happens in the aftermath? Nothing, really. We cut back to Smallville where Clark misses his dad. We cut to the desert where Superman says, "Hey, trust me!" Then we cut to Metropolis where Clark gets a job at the Daily Planet. Fan service and "scene!" End of movie. Uh, The Avengers had 1/10th of the destruction and probable death toll as Man of Steel and even that movie had a denouement that filled the audience in on how the world reacted to the events of the battle in New York. They acknowledged that people died and buildings were damaged and a group of heroes appeared to stop it all. Nothing in MoS. Nada. It's 100 times worse than 9/11 and that shut down New York for weeks afterwards, but Metropolis seemingly gets right back into the groove of things and "What? People died? There used to be a building over there? Really? *shrug* Hey, meet our new reporter, Clark Kent!" How realistic is that? Isn't the whole conceit of this movie that it's supposed to be grounded in reality? What if Superman were real, etc.? To not even address the events that took up the last third of the film at the very end of the movie when they're tying up all the loose ends, to not have a SINGLE CHARACTER act like they just made it through hell and are lucky to be alive, to not have SUPERMAN realize "Whoa! I wanted to help people and look what happened! I need to be more careful in the future!" is just insulting. Throw on a pat happy ending and call it day. What movie opens next week? I hope it's cool!


I don't mean to rant about the negatives. It's just that they really left me feeling a little pissed off and I really think it would have been fairly simple to have Superman be Superman without altering the events of the last act of the movie. Have him rescue a few people. Have him try to swing the fight elsewhere. Have him acknowledge that the fallout of his combat with Zod and company should be avoided in the future. You know, admit that maybe you could have handled things a little better and strive to be better in the future. For all I know, this same crap will happen again in MoS 2 and 3. I swear, it was like that old animated episode where Bizarro tried to emulate Superman but caused more harm than good in the process. Except in this case it was Superman screwing up!

I really liked Amy Adams and Kevin Costner. Henry Cavill did his job, but didn't wow me (well, his bare chest wowed me, but let's not go there). Same for Russell Crowe. Everyone else was serviceable, neither detracting or enhancing the material. The revamped origin and structure of the movie was fine. It was a little numbing in the beginning going from a Zod attack to a Jor-El fight to a Jor-El/Zod fight, exploding Krypton, to the oil rig scene. It was spectacle overload. The movie settled down a little after that, but it still felt like someone was there to say, "It's been 10 minutes! Cue another action scene!" And then once the Smallville fight starts it's pretty much non-stop from that point on. It got a little boring, the sound and fury of it all just blurring together. The movie could stop and take a breath every once in a while. The beauty of a rollercoaster is its peaks and valleys that keep the excitement going while also giving you moments to breathe.

I would rate this 2.5 / 5 stars based purely on my enjoyment of the film up until the Smallville battle. I just can't comprehend the choices made from that point forward and the movie ultimately left me cold. That was not Superman. That was Transformers with a red cape. I honestly don't believe I'm going to bother picking up the BD when it comes out. Maybe when it's in the bargain bin, but it's so un-Superman like by the end I don't know how much I'll ever want to watch.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby SilentBobX on Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:03 am

Finally saw Man of Steel on Friday and my ears have at long last stopped ringing. I'm not aware of what the sound system is at your theaters, but mine is apparently on Letsallmakethesemotherfuckersdeaf-A-phonic sound system. My head may stop throbbing soon too, here's hoping.

First up, I have to say that the trailers underwhelmed me quite a bit, there was no real reason, in my mind, to get excited about this, especially since Superman is a character that's not as deep or layered as others are. In essence, he's a big blue boys cout for a reason. But I have to say that despite that, it delivered on an action front immensely, but fell quite short on the story and pacing.

Henry Cavill's Superman/Kal-El/Clark Kent does a good job here, servicing a thankless role that, to be honest, hasn't helped the careers of those who've portrayed him in the past, but here, he does well enough. If the film does well enough, and he gets some sequels, maybe the filmmakers can actually get a better story going.

Not enough of the film bothered me enough to hate it outright, but I had more than a few problems including:

Oh yeah, let's have a VERY FUCKING SUBTLE scene where Clark is next to a stained glass picture of Jesus, in a church. Yeah, we get it, he's a jesus substitute

Krypton: Why do all the vehicles look like they were stolen from the planet Symbion(Sectaurs reference, sorry). Lots of wings and stinger like protrusions, etc.

Roguescribner says it best about the level of destruction and the apparent lack of any humanity attached to the devastation. They destroyed the ENTIRE FUCKING CITY just about? WTF?

The product placement was annoying. They destroy a ]Sears building which is probably ironic since the company's not in good shape anyway

Also, In comic book lore, everything that comes from Krypton is incredibly stronger on earth, so how is Superman capable of destroying Kryptonian ships, etc with his bare hand??

I may have needed to clean my glasses a bit but I swear I saw For just a moment, Christopher Reeves' face when Superman starts to go up the light of the world-eater

It can't be just me who noticed how they have Clark basically copy Bill Bixby's Bruce Banner journey almost note for note in a way. Don't get angry or someone'll get hurt, hide your identity, travel from town to town searching for answers, etc.

There are other minor points but all in all it's redeemed in part by:

Performances of Michael Shannon and Russell Crowe. A stand up job on both counts, giving them both a little flesh and not making them background noise.

No Jimmy Olsen(sorry I hate him)

The tension between Faora and Colonel Hardy altho brief but had a satisfying end

The character of Faora gives me hope for a Supergirl movie(sorry not going to go on about that, that's another post) but even if her character was basically minor support for Zod, she had some good fight scenes.

There will be comparisons to Reeve's Superman, undoubtedly, but that's a bit unfair. This is a more modern take with improvements in the technical aspects, if not in the character development dept. Reeve did a great job in a movie clearly aimed at kids and young people. I don't know who this Superman is aimed at, because I couldn't recommend it for children due to the noise level, among other reasons.

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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Peven on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:00 pm

saw this last night at the drive-in and thought it was a very good comic/superhero movie, but not great. I know some are disappointed that we didn't get yet another redux of the sappy, simple Donner Superman, a Lex Luthor real estate scam plot and great writing such as spinning the earth backwards to reverse time or bastard son of a deadbeat Superman dad, but you know what, those people have had their Superman movies, which were all weak, and frankly, they have just been waiting to knock Snyder's movie the same way the little fanboys were just waiting to hate X3 before it came out. Anyone who thinks the steaming pile that was Singer's Superman Returns was even half as good as Man of Steel needs to stop watching superhero movies and start reading Harlequin romance novels. this is the Superman movie that the people want to see, and only a director too far up his own ass to see or care about source material or what the audience wants would think that taking a character from another planet with superpowers who is supposed to be a hero embodying all that mankind should strive to be and turn him into a weak, whiny, runner who ditched out when things got tough, even on his own kid and then returns not to step up and do the right thing but to stalk the mother of his son. the final sequence in Man of Steel the easy route? and what route was it that Singer took? talk about ignoring logic and what has been established, kryptonite is absolute poison to Superman and yet Singer has him get stabbed with it and then still be able to lift and entire island made of the stuff...and the explanation of how? there is none. easy peasy.

Man of Steel is the best Superman movie yet, the most "adult" one as well which I think is another part of why some don't care for it, but I don't think it is on the same level as The Avengers, maybe next time when they aren't trying to pack in an origin story and have time to take things a little slower with character moments, fill them out more. this was a big story movie, large scale, laying the groundwork for a franchise, while the Avengers benefited from being established already in their own movies and so more time could be spent on character beats, bringing us in closer emotionally and also with the humor. if you didn't like it you may as well write off Superman for a while then, because this is going to be the foundation that Superman movies will be based on for the next 10 years or so

8.25 out of 10
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby RogueScribner on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:30 pm

Wow. I think Peven just chooses to ignore reality to better support his point of view.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby travis-dane on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:36 pm

RogueScribner wrote:Wow. I think Peven just chooses to ignore reality to better support his point of view.


Hey, I chose to love the movie, even if it comes out here next week, I already love it. Because it has a beard and beards are sexy.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby papalazeru on Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:46 pm

Baby Whale: Why are we heading over there mummy?
Mummy Whale: Oh I don't know, as your protector in this HUGE FUCKING OCEAN, I'm going to head to the noisiest thing that's on fire, heavy and falling into the ocean. Tough love my baby.

What. The. Fuck?!?!?!

Can't say I hated the movie but I was so fucking disappointed. What a wasted opportunity to show humanity scared of something they can't control.

All of the points above I completely agree with, the city destruction. Superman probably killed more people than anything.

Good performances overall but it was just such a bland film.

Oh and THAT FUCKING SHAKY CAM!!!!!!!

God, I'm so glad I didn't see this in 3D, I may have had to tear my eyes out. If a 48fps version turns up on Blueray, i might give it a watch but I'm done with this piece of shit.

Only, Elysium can save my expectations for the a good movie this year.

6/10
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby SilentBobX on Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:15 pm

One of my favorite lines in the movie after the Destruction of Metropolis

After the devastation and loss of extreme human life, Superman destroys a drone that's following him. General Halfwit: That was a TWELVE MILLION DOLLAR PIECE OF EQUIPMENT. REALLY? A city is nearly destroyed and you're worried about a toy plane squashed by the guy who saved your sorry asses? Oh and fuck the idiot Captain TinglyGina who squirms like a little girl saying: "I think he's kinda hot" Oh SPARE ME


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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:15 am

travis-dane wrote:Hey, I chose to love the movie, even if it comes out here next week, I already love it. Because it has a beard and beards are sexy.


This.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby DerLanghaarige on Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:34 am

travis-dane wrote: Because it has a beard and beards are sexy.


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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby travis-dane on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:35 am

DerLanghaarige wrote:
travis-dane wrote: Because it has a beard and beards are sexy.


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:lol:
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby TheBaxter on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:36 am

Peven wrote:saw this last night at the drive-in and thought it was a very good comic/superhero movie, but not great. I know some are disappointed that we didn't get yet another redux of the sappy, simple Donner Superman, a Lex Luthor real estate scam plot and great writing such as spinning the earth backwards to reverse time or bastard son of a deadbeat Superman dad, but you know what, those people have had their Superman movies, which were all weak, and frankly, they have just been waiting to knock Snyder's movie the same way the little fanboys were just waiting to hate X3 before it came out. Anyone who thinks the steaming pile that was Singer's Superman Returns was even half as good as Man of Steel needs to stop watching superhero movies and start reading Harlequin romance novels. this is the Superman movie that the people want to see, and only a director too far up his own ass to see or care about source material or what the audience wants would think that taking a character from another planet with superpowers who is supposed to be a hero embodying all that mankind should strive to be and turn him into a weak, whiny, runner who ditched out when things got tough, even on his own kid and then returns not to step up and do the right thing but to stalk the mother of his son. the final sequence in Man of Steel the easy route? and what route was it that Singer took? talk about ignoring logic and what has been established, kryptonite is absolute poison to Superman and yet Singer has him get stabbed with it and then still be able to lift and entire island made of the stuff...and the explanation of how? there is none. easy peasy.

Man of Steel is the best Superman movie yet, the most "adult" one as well which I think is another part of why some don't care for it, but I don't think it is on the same level as The Avengers, maybe next time when they aren't trying to pack in an origin story and have time to take things a little slower with character moments, fill them out more. this was a big story movie, large scale, laying the groundwork for a franchise, while the Avengers benefited from being established already in their own movies and so more time could be spent on character beats, bringing us in closer emotionally and also with the humor. if you didn't like it you may as well write off Superman for a while then, because this is going to be the foundation that Superman movies will be based on for the next 10 years or so

8.25 out of 10


thank you peven. that was a very thought-out and well-written review.

of Superman Returns.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby papalazeru on Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:57 pm

TheBaxter wrote:
Peven wrote:saw this last night at the drive-in and thought it was a very good comic/superhero movie, but not great. I know some are disappointed that we didn't get yet another redux of the sappy, simple Donner Superman, a Lex Luthor real estate scam plot and great writing such as spinning the earth backwards to reverse time or bastard son of a deadbeat Superman dad, but you know what, those people have had their Superman movies, which were all weak, and frankly, they have just been waiting to knock Snyder's movie the same way the little fanboys were just waiting to hate X3 before it came out. Anyone who thinks the steaming pile that was Singer's Superman Returns was even half as good as Man of Steel needs to stop watching superhero movies and start reading Harlequin romance novels. this is the Superman movie that the people want to see, and only a director too far up his own ass to see or care about source material or what the audience wants would think that taking a character from another planet with superpowers who is supposed to be a hero embodying all that mankind should strive to be and turn him into a weak, whiny, runner who ditched out when things got tough, even on his own kid and then returns not to step up and do the right thing but to stalk the mother of his son. the final sequence in Man of Steel the easy route? and what route was it that Singer took? talk about ignoring logic and what has been established, kryptonite is absolute poison to Superman and yet Singer has him get stabbed with it and then still be able to lift and entire island made of the stuff...and the explanation of how? there is none. easy peasy.

Man of Steel is the best Superman movie yet, the most "adult" one as well which I think is another part of why some don't care for it, but I don't think it is on the same level as The Avengers, maybe next time when they aren't trying to pack in an origin story and have time to take things a little slower with character moments, fill them out more. this was a big story movie, large scale, laying the groundwork for a franchise, while the Avengers benefited from being established already in their own movies and so more time could be spent on character beats, bringing us in closer emotionally and also with the humor. if you didn't like it you may as well write off Superman for a while then, because this is going to be the foundation that Superman movies will be based on for the next 10 years or so

8.25 out of 10


thank you peven. that was a very thought-out and well-written review.

of Superman Returns.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Bax you are truly evil

But that was funny.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:00 pm

some commentary on one of Man of Steel's bigger controversies, WARNING MASSIVE SPOILERS

One thought, and I should note that I haven't seen the film yet (hoping to this week), but I'd already had this particular point spoiled for me by a friend unintentionally, so take this with a grain of salt:

People are up in arms about Supes breaking Zod's neck, but as I understand it, at least it effects him afterwards. Did people react similarly after Reeves' Superman 2? I don't see any difference between breaking that bad guy's neck and throwing him against a wall to plummet to his doom (after he constitutes no physical threat having been de-powered) while smiling. Is it not an issue because in Superman 2 you don't see Zod squish into a pulp at the bottom of the crevasse?

When you take into account the comic and Supes' position there against killing I can certainly understand the debate, but it seems weird to me that the story I posted above didn't even mention Zod's death in Superman 2.


Anyway, like i said, take that for what it's worth. I'm hoping to see the movie this week. The story I posted just seemed a little odd to me.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby RogueScribner on Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:17 pm

I never thought Zod died in Superman II. I figured he was imprisoned in the Fortress. The extended cut on TV showed Zod and crew being led away by police in handcuffs. I'm pretty sure that was Donner footage not used after he was fired.

I can deal with the neck snapping if I was convinced there was no other solution. If Zod had been slowly wearing Superman down because Superman was trying to protect everyone during their fight. But Superman didn't care about anyone during their fight and all of a sudden it's an issue staring him in the face and he freaks out. It just rang hollow to me. Superman left the movie shortly after the Smallville fight started. Generic action dude who doesn't give a shit about collateral damage and loss life took his place.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Bloo on Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:37 am

well I suppose I should weigh in on MoS.

I loved it much more then anyone else (the rest of the people in my party thought it was too loud, too noisy, too actiony.) but it's no Fast 6 ;).

It's hard to review this movie and not see Nolan's influence to a degree or compare it to Batman Begins, but to me it works out better, it demonstrates that "Clark" is his "real" face and Superman is the secret identity. I thought it was a great way to contrast Clark's duel parentage.

Reading everyone else's thoughts, I agree there was too much "punch in the face" toward the end, mix it up a little Supes, for crying out loud. But I get what Nolan, Goyer and Synder were going for, I think they just didn't execute it well. And this may be me justifying the movie or something, but I think Supes cared more for Smallville during the fight with "Don't Call Me Ursula" Faora and "Isn't that the Destroyer from Thor?" then the fight with Zod in Metropolis, because he had no connection to Metropolis and was focused on his fight with Zod. Moving Clark to Metropolis and the whole "Welcome to the Planet" exchange with Lois, was the seed that plants, again in my opinon, the growth of Clark into Superman, into the ideal we are to look up to. Many of you, it seems, want to make Superman into the Gospel's version of Jesus, no real humanity but an ideal person who always does the right thing and never makes a mistake. The point is made at least twice that Clark has handled dealing with sensory overload by narrowing his focus unto Martha and Jonathan. The "Welcome to the Planet" line does more then just welcome an alien to Earth, it opens up that it's time Clark becomes Superman and begins his protection of the world.

Just my opinon
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:09 am

Deleted scene?

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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Leckomaniac on Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:31 am

Lord Voldemoo wrote:some commentary on one of Man of Steel's bigger controversies, WARNING MASSIVE SPOILERS

One thought, and I should note that I haven't seen the film yet (hoping to this week), but I'd already had this particular point spoiled for me by a friend unintentionally, so take this with a grain of salt:

People are up in arms about Supes breaking Zod's neck, but as I understand it, at least it effects him afterwards. Did people react similarly after Reeves' Superman 2? I don't see any difference between breaking that bad guy's neck and throwing him against a wall to plummet to his doom (after he constitutes no physical threat having been de-powered) while smiling. Is it not an issue because in Superman 2 you don't see Zod squish into a pulp at the bottom of the crevasse?

When you take into account the comic and Supes' position there against killing I can certainly understand the debate, but it seems weird to me that the story I posted above didn't even mention Zod's death in Superman 2.


Anyway, like i said, take that for what it's worth. I'm hoping to see the movie this week. The story I posted just seemed a little odd to me.


The bottom line, this movie was horrid. I give it a 1/10. It has been a long time, a REALLY long time, since I walked out of a movie with a firm understanding that I never wanted to see it again. That is how I walked out of this movie. I can think of one scene, one single scene, that I consider to be redeeming. Maybe two. The rest should be lost to the world like all of those old Doctor Who's.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Leckomaniac on Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:40 am

RogueScribner wrote:I never thought Zod died in Superman II. I figured he was imprisoned in the Fortress. The extended cut on TV showed Zod and crew being led away by police in handcuffs. I'm pretty sure that was Donner footage not used after he was fired.

I can deal with the neck snapping if I was convinced there was no other solution. If Zod had been slowly wearing Superman down because Superman was trying to protect everyone during their fight. But Superman didn't care about anyone during their fight and all of a sudden it's an issue staring him in the face and he freaks out. It just rang hollow to me. Superman left the movie shortly after the Smallville fight started. Generic action dude who doesn't give a shit about collateral damage and loss life took his place.


Yup. Mark Waid pretty much wrote this in his review and it is a perfect summation of my thoughts.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:35 am

Leckomaniac wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:some commentary on one of Man of Steel's bigger controversies, WARNING MASSIVE SPOILERS

One thought, and I should note that I haven't seen the film yet (hoping to this week), but I'd already had this particular point spoiled for me by a friend unintentionally, so take this with a grain of salt:

People are up in arms about Supes breaking Zod's neck, but as I understand it, at least it effects him afterwards. Did people react similarly after Reeves' Superman 2? I don't see any difference between breaking that bad guy's neck and throwing him against a wall to plummet to his doom (after he constitutes no physical threat having been de-powered) while smiling. Is it not an issue because in Superman 2 you don't see Zod squish into a pulp at the bottom of the crevasse?

When you take into account the comic and Supes' position there against killing I can certainly understand the debate, but it seems weird to me that the story I posted above didn't even mention Zod's death in Superman 2.


Anyway, like i said, take that for what it's worth. I'm hoping to see the movie this week. The story I posted just seemed a little odd to me.


The bottom line, this movie was horrid. I give it a 1/10. It has been a long time, a REALLY long time, since I walked out of a movie with a firm understanding that I never wanted to see it again. That is how I walked out of this movie. I can think of one scene, one single scene, that I consider to be redeeming. Maybe two. The rest should be lost to the world like all of those old Doctor Who's.


:shock:

uh oh.

I tend to lean towards Lecko's side of the force on movie choices so this doesn't bode well for my enjoyment of the film. I'll go this week and decide for myself, but I'm pretty worried now.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby RogueScribner on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:02 pm

Bloo wrote:Many of you, it seems, want to make Superman into the Gospel's version of Jesus, no real humanity but an ideal person who always does the right thing and never makes a mistake.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not of the opinion that Superman cannot make mistakes. He was raised as a human, it only stands to reason he will think and feel as one too. But in his core he should be someone with compassion for the human race. Someone who will risk himself for the protection of others. Sure, we got that on the large scale in the movie, but the small scale is just as important. Superman doesn't play the numbers game. Every life is important. If Superman tried not to cause too much damage to Metropolis during the fight, but failed: fine, at least he tried. If Superman tried to take the fight away from Metropolis and failed: fine, at least he tried (and no I don't count going into space because it was basically a shot straight up in the air and then right back down into Metropolis; it's not like Superman tried to take the fight over the ocean or out into a rural area and chased Zod back to Metropolis). If Superman during the fight stopped to save someone--ANYONE--and took a beating from Zod as a consequence, losing the battle: fine, he tried. Zipping around trying to do the right thing can be exhausting, especially when you have an opponent who doesn't care about collateral damage or loss of life. And THEN Zod tries to wipe out an entire family before your eyes? And you're so beat down you don't know how you'll stop him if you let him go? So you kill him? Fine, I don't like it, but at least you tried.

But Superman trying was never shown in the movie. Superman acknowledging the fallout from the battle in Metropolis was never shown in the movie. We have no indication he felt bad or learned a hard lesson. I don't care if the sequel does build off it. IT WAS NEVER SHOWN IN THIS MOVIE. So Superman just comes of as callous and focused only on the win. The cost of that win apparently doesn't matter. But for Superman, it should matter.

Superman doesn't have to be infallible. But he has to try. He never fucking tried.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Bloo on Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:31 pm

I see what you're saying and I would agree if we were talking about an older, more expirenced Superman. But we're talking about someone who is going toe to toe with an opponeant who possess all of Superman's strengths plus being raised from birth to be a warrior and who is relentless in his quest to create a new world.

THIS is the first opponent Clark faces, someone who, up to this point, has been doing basically search and rescue type missions and trying to stay out of sight. He is bound to make mistakes, to focus so clearly on one thing (defeating Zod) that he loses sight on the bigger picture.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Leckomaniac on Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:43 pm

Bloo wrote:I see what you're saying and I would agree if we were talking about an older, more expirenced Superman. But we're talking about someone who is going toe to toe with an opponeant who possess all of Superman's strengths plus being raised from birth to be a warrior and who is relentless in his quest to create a new world.

THIS is the first opponent Clark faces, someone who, up to this point, has been doing basically search and rescue type missions and trying to stay out of sight. He is bound to make mistakes, to focus so clearly on one thing (defeating Zod) that he loses sight on the bigger picture.


The problem is that we don't see him grow from this AT ALL at the end. It would be one thing if, during the fight, we see Supes realize the damage and presumably carnage he is causing. A moment of self awareness would have been done wonders. Even if, at the end, he just surveyed the wreckage or something and you see him recognize for the first time the depth of his power and their destructive capabilities. But no. We get nothing. The impression you are left with, at least the one that I was left with, was that this Clark didn't care.

Worst yet, the producers don't seem to care! The producers gave an interview recently and they summed it up by saying "this is the 21st century, casualties happen." What?!?! What a callous view of the world. And of Superman.

Someone on twitter summed it up best, IMO. The most condemning part of MoS is the unescapable truth that Earth would have been better off (by a considerable margin) had Kal-El died on Krypton. That isn't the Superman I want. In fact, this movie totally inverts the original Siegel / Schuster view of Supes. Their Superman was the ultimate immigrant. Someone who was from another place but used his gifts to contribute in such a positive place that he made his adopted world better. It is the ultimate argument for a wide open approach to immigrant / other cultures. This Superman stands for the proposition that we should close our fucking borders right now lest some immigrant bring all his fucking baggage to our shores.

EDIT: Er, what Rogue said.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby RogueScribner on Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:46 pm

And Superman can be short-sighted, but when he causes a skyscraper to crumble to the ground, that should be something he realized happened and it should give him pause. No evidence he noticed nor cared about the damage HE caused. The damage Zod and crew caused and the lives lost are tragic. Superman couldn't prevent that and he's not responsible for their actions. The damage Superman caused and the possible lives lost are glaring plot hole and it really just makes Superman out to be a jerk.

I'm sorry, but I guess I'm a literal movie watcher. If there's not an in-movie explanation for something, it doesn't exist. I'm not here to fix filmmakers' laziness. And it wouldn't take much to fix. A couple lines of dialogue, a meaningful glance, something. But there's nothing because it was more important to be Transformers with a red cape than to tell a genuine story.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Al Shut on Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:06 pm

Leckomaniac wrote:Worst yet, the producers don't seem to care! The producers gave an interview recently and they summed it up by saying "this is the 21st century, casualties happen." What?!?! What a callous view of the world. And of Superman.


I was only half following this whole discussion because I haven't seen the movie,(and now I'm kind of half spoilered but don't know if I know enough already to safely read everything :? ) but I was wondering if this was some kind of zeitgeist thing.
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby Bloo on Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:53 pm

we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I don't think any of us are budging on this LOL
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Re: MAN OF STEEL

Postby TheBaxter on Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:49 pm

i think i want to see this movie now, more just so i can read all these spoilers and controversies people keep talking about, than through any actual desire to see the film itself.
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