Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Spandau Belly on Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:54 am

When I talk to most people, the films they are most excited about seeing are all these big epic blockbusters in which the scope, the hero's powers, and the stakes are all cranked up to 11. You can say it's lazy writing, that it's the obvious way to deliver spectacle, and you would be right; but I'm convinced that audiences demand it.

They still make non-epic action movies about one dude using his fists to stop a criminal, they're just made on smaller budgets and reap smaller profits than they would've 30 years ago. Why was THE LAST STAND a total flop at the box office? It had a solid trailer that showcased a good setup for action and starred the most successful action star of all time, but a movie about a sheriff with no magic powers using regular guns and fists to stop one criminal just wasn't compelling to modern audiences.

Also, ratings are hugely important. They aim most blockbuster movies to be PG13 so that they can reach the broadest audience possible and make the most money. Big epic spectacle is a way of delivering action in a non-violent way. You can show invulnerable superheroes blasting armies of CGI aliens through skyscrapers with magic hammers and nobody gets so much as a broken nose. If you make a more intimate action movie like DIE HARD in which a couple of regular dudes are punching each other with fists in an enclosed space, it gets ugly pretty quick (otherwise it loses all credibility and the audience checks out) and thus you end up with an R rating.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Ribbons on Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:19 pm

I agree with what you're saying mostly, but I also think The Last Stand flopping may have had something to do with Arnold Schwarzenegger no longer being a box office draw. And really, why should he be? He hasn't made anything good since True Lies. Although I have heard this movie is decent.

But anyway, I can get behind the crux of what you're saying, which is that audiences are always looking for that experience of things cranked up to '11.' That used to be something like Die Hard where two guys punch each other and maybe a house blows up, but now that they have the technology to make comic-book movies (or Pirates of the Caribbean, Transformers, etc.) semi-respectable, our sense of what 11 is has changed.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Spandau Belly on Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:40 pm

I disagree that DIE HARD used to be what people would consider epic. I think it's a small movie, but it's exciting because it's well executed and handles its escalation perfectly so that one building exploding feels really big in the context of that film.

There were always huge epic action movies with super-powered characters fighting for the fate of mankind. You always had stuff like STAR WARS or TERMINATOR 2: JUDGEMENT DAY or the various films featuring the Superman character, it's just that from 1970 through 2005 it felt like those huge movies would come out, but studios and audiences were always happy to go back to smaller scale action movies like CLIFFHANGER or RUMBLE IN THE BRONX or POINT BREAK or whatever. I guess I see the trailers for big movies these days and more of them feel like they're trying to be RETURN OF THE JEDI than LETHAL WEAPON.

Like I said, there's still a demand for these smaller scale action movies and they still make them; and every now and then you get something like TAKEN which proves to be a surprise hit. But for the most part, audiences tend to pass on even seeing stuff like DREDD or THE LAST STAND. A well-executed small scale film like THE GREY or THE RAID doesn't have much hope for even selling as many tickets as crappy dead-on-arrival superhero movie like GREEN LANTERN.

It's just where audiences are right now. Like I said, I don't really blame the studios for responding to the demand. And even though I like some of these big epic movies, I just don't feel like as much epic as they're serving these days.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby SooperPooperScooper on Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:53 pm

superhero films are shit
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:28 pm

so i've been reading high fidelity by nick hornby and this question is bugging me. i've also seen the film, and i've read and seen about a boy, and i've seen (but not read) fever pitch. all his books take place in the UK, but two of those adaptations were americanized. one even changed the sport, which makes sense because making a film about rabid soccer fans in the US would not be a comedy, it would be a fantasy, or maybe sci-fi.

but what i'm wondering is, what does it feel like for a british person whose read those books, and then goes to see the film versions and see all the UK-isms removed and replaced by Americanisms? does it ruin the film for you, or can you look past it and still enjoy the movie? i wonder if any of the british zoners (if there are still any here), (and other than kirks that is, who i'm sure will just say fuck off), want to weigh in on that.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Spandau Belly on Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:33 pm

This isn't an answer to your question, but they actually did FEVER PITCH in England with Colin Firth as a film before the American version.
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Escape from the Planet of the Apes Franchise

Postby TheButcher on Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:32 pm

"30 Years Later: Rod Serling's Planet of the Apes"
Settling the Debate over Who Wrote What, and When
Gordon C. Webb wrote:In late 1963, Rod Serling was hired by King Brothers Productions to write a screenplay based on Pierre Boulle's novel Planet of the Apes. For more than two years, Serling, who had earned a solid reputation as a television writer, struggled with the task of adapting this complex story for the big screen. By the time he submitted a final draft in early 1965, APJAC Productions had acquired the screen rights to Boulle's story. For the next two years, producer Arthur P. Jacobs worked to raise enough funding for what had developed into a very expensive project. Before filming began, another experienced writer, Michael Wilson, was brought in to work on the script. Wilson, whose career suffered through the blacklisting of the McCarthy era, had written many excellent film scripts (including It's A Wonderful Life and A Place in the Sun)—some uncredited until recently (such as Bridge on the River Kwai and Lawrence of Arabia). Finally, in early 1968, Planet of the Apes was released, with both Wilson and Serling sharing screen credit. The film adaptation of Boulle's novel opened to mostly favorable reviews:

...one of the best science-fiction fantasies ever to come out of Hollywood...
-The New Yorker

There should be enthusiastic word of mouth on this one, and top grosses.
-Independent Film Journal

... I found it one of the most fascinating and entertaining films I've seen in a long time.
-Bill Dial, Atlanta Constitution

However, in the thirty years since Planet of the Apes was released, the issue of "authorship" of the screenplay has been raised—especially as it relates to the film's classic "Statue of Liberty" ending. This analysis chronicles the transformation of Planet of the Apes from the printed page to the screen comparing Boulle's novel with a dozen versions of the script held in the Rod Serling Archive(1) as well as Wilson's commercially available shooting script and the home video release of the film.

Just Hit Play:
Escape from the Planet of the Apes
Sometimes a series is too successful to just let it end naturally. Following the success of Planet of the Apes and Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Fox Studios wanted another sequel, but there was a problem. Without giving too much away, the ending for 'Beneath' well....didn't really leave any opening for a follow-up. That's what screenwriters are for and ta-da! The series continued! A third movie in the series, 1971's Escape from the Planet of the Apes.

Planet of the Apes: A Timeline and An Explanation
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Re: Little Shop Of Horrors

Postby TheButcher on Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:53 am

Frank Oz: Muppets maestro discusses 'Little Shop of Horrors' and the remaking of his classics
James Gartler wrote:Your film has also become legendary for it’s elaborate “lost” 23-minute ending. That finale preserved the story line from the show where both of the leads die and Audrey IIs take over the world, and it featured amazing sequences of cities being trashed by giant plant monsters. But all of it was ultimately cut from the theatrical release because audiences at the preview screenings didn’t react positively to it.
That’s putting it mildly! Going back to the beginning, Howard and I were in David Geffen’s office and we both wanted to retain the original ending, with the plant winning and the key people dying, and David was against that. He said you can’t do that, but again he knew Howard and I wanted to, so David supported us. The film was completed two years later and we went to San Jose for the first preview and everyone was very excited about it. This was, I think, the most expensive film Warner Bros. had done at that time. For every musical number there was applause, they loved it, it was just fantastic…until we killed our two leads. And then the theater became a refrigerator, an ice box. It was awful and the cards were just awful. They were saying that they hated us killing them. You have to have a 55 percent “recommend” to really be released and we got a 13.

Wow!
It was a complete disaster. After that San Jose screening, I said, “Can we just try one more time in L.A. to see if the reaction is different?” David supported me and we did it, and we got exactly the same reaction, like 16 percent or something. Howard and I knew what we had to do: We had to cut that ending and make it a happy ending, or a satisfying ending. We didn’t want to, but we understood they couldn’t release it with that kind of a reaction. [Audiences] loved the two leads so much that when we killed them, they felt bereft. So, Howard rewrote it and I shot it with a satisfying ending. The original one was in color, but when we ripped apart the ending, we had to take out the tape and then we had to reshoot the new ending and then retape that for another preview. So therefore, after the Los Angeles preview, there was no color ending. It didn’t exist because we had to take it apart. So the black-and-white [version] was a dupe, a copy of the original color ending that was made. I’m not sure why we made it, but we made it and that’s the only thing that was left, because there’s actually no color ending left.

Were you pleased with what you and Howard came up with in terms of this new happier ending? I noticed you left the plant alive as a little hint there at the end that he could still cause trouble. Did it satisfy you?
We had to do it, and do it in such a manner that the audience would enjoy the movie. It was very dissatisfying for both of us that we couldn’t do what we wanted. So creatively, no, it didn’t satisfy us and [in terms of] being true to the story, it didn’t satisfy us. But we also understood the realities that they couldn’t release the movie if we had that ending.


Little Shop of Horrors Original Ending YouTube
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby TheButcher on Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:33 pm

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Wes Anderson's "THE ROYAL TENENBAUMS"

Postby TheButcher on Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:32 am

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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Peven on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:16 pm

so Thor is a woman now? bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :-P :-P I don't ever want to hear a comic book geek complain about how studios don't "respect the source material" when converting comics to the big screen again. :-P :-P
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:32 am

she'll be renamed "Ther"
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby TheButcher on Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:25 am

io9:
These Are the Movies Recommended by the Church of Satan -- Here's Why
Cheryl Eddy wrote:You're currently writing a film book. Is it a guide or more of a film theory­-meets-­Satanism book? Which contemporary films do you discuss?

I must view The Lego Movie as I've heard it is a celebration of individuality against herd conformity, and nothing is more Satanic than that. My personal blog discusses film and music that has Satanic aspects.

What are your favorite films that embody aspects of Satanism?

Satanism is so broad a philosophy that there are many, however here are four that I never tire of viewing.

Ishiro Honda's Gojira. A dark parable warning against mankind's hubris in maltreating our environment through the abuse of nuclear energy. Our unique characteristic amongst our globe's species is that we can potentially decimate the planet. Gojira is a balance factor, embodying the forces of nature which we might oppose, but which usually overwhelm such efforts. As we tinker with the mechanisms that drive existence, we must remain cognizant of possible consequences, and that colossal radioactive reptile looms as a potent reminder of such.

Barry Sonnenfeld's Addams Family Values. No film shows a stylized version of genuinely Satanic people quite like this one does. The Addams family behave like and share the aesthetics of many of us. The film celebrates the outsiders who hold their ground against pressures to conform to normalcy — and it is full of exquisitely diabolical dialogue.

John Landis' Animal House. Apollonian rigidity vs. Dionysian catharsis is brilliantly etched in this classic infernal comedy. Carnality opposes pretense, and the haughty are brought low via mockery. The brilliant cast, screenplay, and score under Landis' adept guidance perfect the art of lampooning the deserving. As Donald Sutherland's Mr. Jennings states: "The most intriguing character, as we all know from our reading, was ... Satan. Now was Milton trying to tell us ... that being bad was more fun than being good?" He then bites the apple he's holding, taking the plunge into knowledge of good and evil ... and so much more.
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Re: Little Shop Of Horrors

Postby TheButcher on Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:28 am

Warner Bros & Greg Berlanti Grow ‘Little Shop Of Horrors’ Revamp
Mike Fleming Jr wrote:EXCLUSIVE: Warner Bros is moving forward with a new incarnation of Little Shop of Horrors, with Greg Berlanti set to direct and Matthew Robinson writing the script. This one will be a musical, a fresh version of the 30-year-old Frank Oz-directed film. That was based on the Roger Corman-directed 1960 low-budget sci-fi campy tale about a clumsy young man who raises a plant, discovers it is carnivorous, and kills to keep it fed. There is a memorable scene with Jack Nicholson as a pain-seeking dental patient in the original, replicated in the musical by Bill Murray. Marc Platt is producing. The 1986 film was scripted by Howard Ashman from his off-Broadway musical, with tunes crafted with his frequent collaborator Alan Menken. Sarah Schechter is exec producer.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Ribbons on Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:48 am

I'm a little late on this one, but I watched Manchester by the Sea on a plane recently and it kind of wrecked me. :P
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Fievel on Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:21 am

We all make bad choices from time to time.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Ribbons on Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:45 pm

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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Fievel on Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:10 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Wolfpack on Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:24 pm

Ribbons wrote:Image


Please update your account to enable 3rd party hosting.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Fievel on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:53 am

I was watching Die Hard yesterday. It was the first time I had watched it in over ten years - the first time since I got married and had a family. So with those major life changes, I see things differently now.

John McClaine is an asshole with rage issues. He likely mentally abuses his wife and doesn't even realize one bit of it. It wouldn't surprise me if she ran away from him just as much as she was running towards major career advancements. McClaine was the perfect 1980s action film character, but in hindsight he is a horrible person.

Why am I saying all this?
I believe this aspect of him....if well-written in the most serious manner and dropping all cute wink-wink moments of the original and every shitty sequel....could be the foundation of a great, final John McClaine film if it was modeled after Logan. Give us our hero....wife is gone (dead?)......kids all hate him because he's an asshole.... all of his choices in life have left him truly broken. Find a situation that calls him to be a hero one final time, but a situation that is at least believable and grounded in reality. The first Die Hard wasn't perfect, but it made a great attempt at constructing an elaborate heist film (especially at the time). Maybe Theo, the computer guy from the first (and only surviving member of Gruber's crew?) could be the villain.

Die Hard 2 wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great. I thought the remaining sequels just sunk deeper and deeper into the depths of shit. But what if a decent writer created a decent script/scenario? It could be a great film.

......but it won't happen. And instead we'll likely have Willis and Jai Courtney in jetpacks fighting Russian robots in the diamond mines of Botswana.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:47 pm

i think they should hire M Night Shyamalan to make M Night Shyamalan's The Sixth Die Hardable. turns out, McClane's flight to LA at the beginning of Die Hard actually crashed on landing, and McClane has been a crime-fighting ghost the entire time. Sam Jackson's cabbie character is actually the mastermind behind all the terrorist plots in all the previous films, which he engineered in an effort to find his other half. and Hans Gruber was just one of James McAvoy's split personalities.

and because every Shyamalamdingdong movie needs a big twist, this one ends with the revelation that Holly McClane is really a mermaid who's allergic to water and lives in a phony modern-day Puritan village being attacked by sentient trees.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby so sorry on Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:16 pm

Fievel wrote:...The first Die Hard wasn't perfect, ...



Wrong.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:05 pm

so sorry wrote:
Fievel wrote:...The first Die Hard wasn't perfect, ...



Wrong.


In many shots you can tell it's not Bruce Willis but a stuntman doing the action scenes. So knowing this is not 10/10 efficiently made, tell me... how is this movie perfect?
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:17 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
so sorry wrote:
Fievel wrote:...The first Die Hard wasn't perfect, ...



Wrong.


In many shots you can tell it's not Bruce Willis but a stuntman doing the action scenes. So knowing this is not 10/10 efficiently made, tell me... how is this movie perfect?


joke
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Peven on Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:05 pm

it's not a perfect movie by any means. it's cheesy popcorn fun. but you can pick it apart from start to finish because the logic and plot are so bad. the deaths have little to no weight. we're expected to believe a regular old cop is going to go hand to hand against trained special forces type criminals and hold his own? to run across a room full of broken glass in bare feet and only act as if it is a discomfort thereafter? Bruce Willis mails in the performance, too. at least, for any REAL actor it would be a mailed-in performance, but for Bruce Willis, that's acting, and basically the exact same character he plays in every movie. :-P
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:49 pm

It also uses the music from Aliens at the end. So again, that shows another roughness to it that demotes it from being 'perfect'.

The most perfect thing about this film is Alan Rickman's hair. It's so.... robust!
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Fievel on Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:57 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:It also uses the music from Aliens at the end. So again, that shows another roughness to it that demotes it from being 'perfect'.

The most perfect thing about this film is Alan Rickman's hair. It's so.... robust!


Aside from the Aliens outtake track, the music is one of my favorite parts of the movie. The variations on the theme of Beethoven's 9th (Ode to Joy) leading up to the opening of the vault are a huge highlight for me.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:54 pm

Peven wrote:it's not a perfect movie by any means. it's cheesy popcorn fun. but you can pick it apart from start to finish because the logic and plot are so bad. the deaths have little to no weight. we're expected to believe a regular old cop is going to go hand to hand against trained special forces type criminals and hold his own? to run across a room full of broken glass in bare feet and only act as if it is a discomfort thereafter? Bruce Willis mails in the performance, too. at least, for any REAL actor it would be a mailed-in performance, but for Bruce Willis, that's acting, and basically the exact same character he plays in every movie. :-P


well, sure, i mean, it's no Commando by any measure.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby so sorry on Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:18 pm

TheBaxter wrote:
Peven wrote:it's not a perfect movie by any means. it's cheesy popcorn fun. but you can pick it apart from start to finish because the logic and plot are so bad. the deaths have little to no weight. we're expected to believe a regular old cop is going to go hand to hand against trained special forces type criminals and hold his own? to run across a room full of broken glass in bare feet and only act as if it is a discomfort thereafter? Bruce Willis mails in the performance, too. at least, for any REAL actor it would be a mailed-in performance, but for Bruce Willis, that's acting, and basically the exact same character he plays in every movie. :-P


well, sure, i mean, it's no Commando by any measure.



IMO Commando is about as perfect as a movie can get. It is the perfect combination of machismo, heroism, fun, silliness, and stupidity. 80s action film MASTERPIECE.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Peven on Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:08 pm

I remember renting "Commando" with a bunch of friends back in about '87, getting stoned, and then trying to keep count of all the people Ahnuld killed during the movie. pretty sure we lost count somewhere around 150 because he was killing so many at a time with explosions. :lol: :)

if we're talking favorite Bruce Willis cheese movie(which is a GREAT theme for a thread, btw, "favorite movies of a certain actor"), then "5th Element" rules for me. Ruby Rod, Leelu, 7 foot tall blue opera singer chicks, Bilbo Baggins, Gary Oldman, I mean, come on, it's a better movie than Die hard on every front. :-P :wink:
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby TheBaxter on Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:14 pm

Peven wrote:I remember renting "Commando" with a bunch of friends back in about '87, getting stoned, and then trying to keep count of all the people Ahnuld killed during the movie. pretty sure we lost count somewhere around 150 because he was killing so many at a time with explosions. :lol: :)


a better game is to count all the people who shoot at Arnie from point-blank range without ever hitting him.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:06 pm

I really don't think violence and death should be treated so casually.
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Peven on Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:56 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:I really don't think violence and death should be treated so casually.


yeah, that is the point
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Re: Stray Film Thoughts/Questions

Postby Peven on Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:35 pm

concept: a time travel story where there is an unexplained cosmic "event" that causes a 25 year jump backward in time and everyone is aware of the passage of time and the jump backward. everyone. sure, you know that Apple is going to end up being huge and a great stock buy, but so does everyone else. we know that Clinton is going to get a blowjob in office but the economy is going to be great, maybe, because now everyone knows about the internet, and all of the other technology that has been invented and developed over 25 years. how does that effect investment and the exchange of ideas and intellectual property? do people race to try to take advantage of that for personal gain or use the knowledge to make things better for all in the "new" future? people that are friends that end up betraying you, spouses that cheat on you, etc., all that kind of information now known to you, to everyone. and that 10 year old kid you had before the time jump? now you're 15 years prior to their conception, and you can't remember everything you did that led up to that moment when they were conceived so the chance of it happening again is astronomical. they're gone. forever. never existed. kind of. anyway, think of the societal upheaval when everyone is confronted with such existential crisis left and right. now THAT is a time travel movie I want to see done right :D
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