The Bourne Ultimatum (Now w/ Poll!)

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

With 10 being the best and 1 being the worst, how would you rate The Bourne Ultimatum?

10
11
32%
9
7
21%
8
4
12%
7
3
9%
6
3
9%
5
1
3%
4
0
No votes
3
0
No votes
2
1
3%
1
1
3%
I'm waiting for DVD / TV
1
3%
Fuck Bourne! James Bond 4evar!
2
6%
 
Total votes : 34

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:22 am

No problem.

NOW POST SOMETHING DAMNIT!!!!!

Oh.
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Postby colonel_lugz on Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:53 am

Have you got any more Bourne shoots lined up?

Do you know how much of it is shot over here/how long the shoot is?
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:06 am

It's been going on for a while now, but enough about me and Matt Damon's offscreen relationship, the film's been shooting a few months already, not specifically sure how long, but I do remember getting texts from my agent to work on the film even before I went on Trial in Mid October. I heard that the film does actually continue after Christmas too, even though I thought it wold wrap soon, as 3 months is your average time for a film like this isn't it? How long it shoots for after Christmas, who knows?

I got a call from my agent last week, seeing if I could work 3 days, Monday to Wednesday of this week, but alas, 'cos of me having to go to hospital tomorrow for the final fucking visit (why can't these cants just leave me alone an get on with my life? I've been out 4 wasted weeks already), I couldn't do those Extra days. I don't know what the job was for, but it could have been on Bourne. I dunno, if I had the chance to do things over, I should have just punched out Brigitte Neillsen and married Ivan Drago. These Q&As about my film life make me feel just like Sly over at AICN right now.
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Postby Chilli on Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:21 am

I dunno, if I had the chance to do things over, I should have just punched out Brigitte Neillsen and married Ivan Drago. These Q&As about my film life make me feel just like Sly over at AICN right now.


heh.

So did you see anyone shaking the camera wildly for the action scenes, or is that added in post-prod?
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:24 am

Nah, again, those free floating steadicam running shots were a work of beauty. No Shakin' Stevens gaining new employment as a cameraman here.
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Postby Chilli on Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:25 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Nah, again, those free floating steadicam running shots were a work of beauty. No Shakin' Stevens gaining new employment as a cameraman here.


So we can blame the editor for the crappy shakey cam? Righto.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:28 am

I blame the farking Director. He better not do it on this film again. Why don't all these people agree that this shaky over edited camera work sucks and that people don't like it?

In the very least, it's gonna be so dated when people look back on it in years to come. So much stuff from this generation in film making is gonna be regarded as some of the most dated we've seen in the history of film.
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Postby Chilli on Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:31 am

It always gets me when they use it. Does it add anything? NO. If the action scene is good enough on its own, why do they have to use shaky cam to give everyone a headache? The only time it worked was Batman: Begins, and even then at times it grated.

Look at X-Men II for Christ sake. Wolvy - Lady D had limited shaky cam, and it worked. WE COULD SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND IT WAS GOOD.
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Postby godzillasushi on Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:36 am

McShakeville's Annual Shakefest Shaky Milkshake Shake County Shaketacular.
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Postby thatsfunny on Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:25 pm

so stoked for this film
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Postby godzillasushi on Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:56 pm

thatsfunny wrote:so stoked for this film


Tell us why!
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Postby thatsfunny on Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:17 pm

the first two were great, and it's awesome to see someone be a total untouchable badass (even if that someone happens to be matt damon)
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:25 pm

I'm utterly stoked for this film. But I aint saying why, GZS, just to keep you on the edge of your seat. ;)
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Postby godzillasushi on Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:37 pm

AtomicHyperbole wrote:I'm utterly stoked for this film. But I aint saying why, GZS, just to keep you on the edge of your seat. ;)
:shock: :shock: :shock: Must.....know

Yea im excited too. Matt Damon is the opposite of Matt Damon in these movies. You have the Oceans 11 Matt Damon.....and you have Bourne Damon.
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Postby thatsfunny on Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:41 pm

so mysterious
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:44 pm

I am like the wind, rustling between Rosie O'Donnells cavernous flaps.
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Postby thatsfunny on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:02 pm

worst mental image i've had in a while. thanks atomic!
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Postby colonel_lugz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:17 am

TRAILERS UP!!

http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/features/bourne-ultimatum.html


Looks good, but no sign of Kirk.......in fact, no London footage at all
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Postby The Todd on Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:19 am



I think I heard this somewhere before. But where?
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:21 am

The Todd wrote:


I think I heard this somewhere before. But where?



And this is what I wrote in there as well...

havocSchultz wrote:
tfactor wrote:Teh Bourne Ultimatum trailer is up


Hey, look, more Shaky-Cam goodness!!!

You'd think after all the money the first 2 made - they would be able to afford a fucking tripod or something...

Apparentely, in these movies - Damon is a badass and an expert fighter...
Too bad we'll never know!!!

I saw the first two movies - but I technically didn't see them...

I really dislike the over-use of shaky cameras for action scenes these days...

What happened to the good ole days when directors would actually let us see what was happening on the screen...?
As opposed to trying to convince us it's real and gritty and rough by throwing the camera through the air and editting the footage it captured during said fall into the film...?!?!!?
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:47 am

Oh mate I ain't watching no worldwide eagerly anticipated trailer to a big movie - THAT I'M IN(!!!) in a farking shitty Windows Media Player ZX81 graphiced piece of shite!!! Don't do me no favours guys!! To hell with this! I'll blimmin' wait until the DVD comes out. Oh and thanks for reminding me that I mistakenly told a German chick last night that I was in the Bourne Supremacy and NOT in ULITMATUM like I should have done. Now she's going through the second film trying to find me and getting vertigo out of all the shakycamcrap whilst affording to get herself off whenever she sees someone that DOES look like me and declaring her love for him instead - though she wont have sex with him as she will be complaining of having a headache all the time thanks to the wonder of Shakin' Stevens new employment as DOP of these films and an editor who puts in cuts at the rate of a Havoc piece of bumfluff post.

Yeah and what havoc said about the style of film making these days... In years to come people will look back on this shaky crazy edit and not only will they complain that it was one of the worst times in film making history, but because of all the glorious goings on in front of the camera that was lost due to this current style, they'll be wanting to do EVEN MORE REMAKES of today's films.
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:51 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Oh mate I ain't watching no worldwide eagerly anticipated trailer to a big movie - THAT I'M IN(!!!) in a farking shitty Windows Media Player ZX81 graphiced piece of shite!!! Don't do me no favours guys!! To hell with this! I'll blimmin' wait until the DVD comes out. Oh and thanks for reminding me that I mistakenly told a German chick last night that I was in the Bourne Supremacy and NOT in ULITMATUM like I should have done. Now she's going through the second film trying to find me and getting vertigo out of all the shakycamcrap whilst affording to get herself off whenever she sees someone that DOES look like me and declaring her love for him instead - though she wont have sex with him as she will be complaining of having a headache all the time thanks to the wonder of Shakin' Stevens new employment as DOP of these films and an editor who puts in cuts at the rate of a Havoc piece of bumfluff post.

Yeah and what havoc said about the style of film making these days... In years to come people will look back on this shaky crazy edit and not only will they complain that it was one of the worst times in film making history, but because of all the glorious goings on in front of the camera that was lost due to this current style, they'll be wanting to do EVEN MORE REMAKES of today's films.


At the risk of losing some of my followers - I will humbly agree with you on this...

If that chick is trying to get her rocks off to Kirk - she deserves all the headaches she gets...
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Postby Seppuku on Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:54 am

Totally agree with you guys on the shaky cam thing. It seems like the directing equivalent of this current fad of people walking about with their arse hanging out of their jeans- they put SO much effort in to look like they've just dragged themselves out of a dumpster.
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Postby magicmonkey on Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:56 am

You just haterz! Shaky cam puts you there in the scene, brings immediacy to the events.
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:59 am

magicmonkey wrote:You just haterz! Shaky cam puts you there in the scene, brings immediacy to the events.


Maybe if you're there and you're Michael J. Fox or something...
Cause usually, when I witness something - my head's not violently shaking around and focusing on everything but what it should be...
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:02 pm

God, there's alwaaays one isn't there, MM?

Put it this way, and this will end all arguments, to quote Stanley Kubrick "It may be real, but is it any good?" This also coming from a guy that hardly ever employs Michael J Fox to be his shaky cam man and always has his shots in a nice still square non moving manner. Anyway that ain't the point - you're not gonna argue with the Master are you!?!?


EDIT - OI HAVOC!!! Stop stealing my Michael J Fox jokes!! I WROTE THAT FIRST!! NO, I WROTE THAT FIRST!!! IT DON'T MATTER ABOUT THE TIME OF MY POST BEING AFTER HIS!!! I HAD A LOT OF SPELLCHECKING AND COHERENCY WORDCHECKS TO DO ON IT OK!!!!????

Now I say again! Magicmonkey and anyone else! Are you gonna argue with The MASTER!??!!?
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Postby colonel_lugz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:05 pm

havocSchultz wrote:
magicmonkey wrote:You just haterz! Shaky cam puts you there in the scene, brings immediacy to the events.


Maybe if you're there and you're Michael J. Fox or something...
Cause usually, when I witness something - my head's not violently shaking around and focusing on everything but what it should be...











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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:07 pm

You need balance. It can be a good technique when used correctly. If the whole film is like it then it's just taking away the effectiveness of the immersion.
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:07 pm

I believe, that if you want people to be able to watch your movie - than film a movie that people can watch...

Not a movie where everything spins around so fast and you can only make out a snippet here and there...

87 cuts/edits in 20 seconds is hardly intriguing to me...
And I know the reasons behind the stylistic choice...
I just don't like the stylistic choice...

If you're gonna put all that effort into creating a scene - why not make it so it can actually be appreciated...

If I EVER shake my camera to the point of dis-orientation and sickness - please - Punch Kirk in the tit for me...

And I do believe that if it is randomly (SPARINGLY) used for a specific scene or something - it can be effective...
But honestly - I paid to see a movie - not blurs and jump cuts and avid farts...
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:10 pm

How would you guys shoot a fight scene? I'm just curious… I agree with what you're saying but wonder how you guys would do it.
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:11 pm

MonkeyM666 wrote:How would you guys shoot a fight scene? I'm just curious… I agree with what you're saying but wonder how you guys would do it.


I'd put small cameras on their fists...


Which, oddly enough, is the same way I'd shoot a porno...
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:12 pm

<nods> Nice.... that's a really good idea, feel the impacts right in your face.




and the rest of the fight?
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:15 pm

MonkeyM666 wrote:<nods> Nice.... that's a really good idea. really feel the impacts.




and the rest of the fight?


I'll paraphrase a Ronny Yu quote from his Freddy vs. Jason commentary...

I just told my DP to place the camera in front of the action - and let them go at it. I don't like not being able to see what's happening -so I just wanted a nice wide master shot of these 2 icons completely beating and slashing the hell outta each other...


Or something along those lines...

Then get some coverage/close-ups to add to the impact and increase the adrenaline of the scene...

You might have to actually film the fight scene a few more times in order to get all the angles and what-not worked out - but you can see it all - every hit - every reaction - every splatter of blood and sweat...

Once again, just like porn...
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:18 pm

Cool.... working from a mastershot can be so damn helpful. I like it...

So the next porno you make will be 'Deep Impact', right.... RIGHT??
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:20 pm

MonkeyM666 wrote:Cool.... working from a mastershot can be so damn helpful. I like it...

So the next porno you make will be 'Deep Impact', right.... RIGHT??


Actually, I was thinking of doing Fisting of the Northstar next...
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:25 pm

:lol:

That would be brutal
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Postby TonyWilson on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:30 pm

Eh, I've never not been able to see whats going on in the Bourne films. In Batman Begins the scenes are shot in such close up that it's tough to tell exactly what's happening but a shaky camera is cool with me, it's kinetic and as long as you pay attention it's easy enough to see the action.
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Postby tapehead on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:41 pm

Don't recall the first film being terribly afflicted with shakes - different cinematographer and it was directed by Doug Liman, no?

Second film had Greengrass helming and much was blocked and shot on the hop, and I would guess shot with wide telephoto lenses - hence unsteady

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Postby magicmonkey on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:54 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:God, there's alwaaays one isn't there, MM?

Put it this way, and this will end all arguments, to quote Stanley Kubrick "It may be real, but is it any good?" This also coming from a guy that hardly ever employs Michael J Fox to be his shaky cam man and always has his shots in a nice still square non moving manner. Anyway that ain't the point - you're not gonna argue with the Master are you!?!?


EDIT - OI HAVOC!!! Stop stealing my Michael J Fox jokes!! I WROTE THAT FIRST!! NO, I WROTE THAT FIRST!!! IT DON'T MATTER ABOUT THE TIME OF MY POST BEING AFTER HIS!!! I HAD A LOT OF SPELLCHECKING AND COHERENCY WORDCHECKS TO DO ON IT OK!!!!????

Now I say again! Magicmonkey and anyone else! Are you gonna argue with The MASTER!??!!?


This whole debacle as you refer to it started with Kubrick where Spielberg copied his documentary style battle shots from "Dr.Strangelove or how I learned to stop worrying and love the shaky cam", Kubrick loved the dynamism of the camera; see the flowing steadycam shots in the shining, or the tracking and use of zoom. But, ultimately see the shaky cam war shots.
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Postby tapehead on Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:02 pm

It's partly a question of camera technique and technology as well, if you want to look at it that way. It hardly begins and ends with Kubrick and Spielberg.
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Postby minstrel on Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:12 pm

MonkeyM666 wrote:How would you guys shoot a fight scene? I'm just curious… I agree with what you're saying but wonder how you guys would do it.


The answer to this question depends on the fighting skills of the actors involved. If I have Jet Li and Jackie Chan, I use a wide shot, fixed camera, and let them go. They'll be spectacular.

If I don't have highly-trained fighters, but I have to make them LOOK like highly-trained fighters, then I'll need to do lots of cuts and other tricks to make the actors look faster and more skilled than they really are.

My assumption here is that Matt Damon isn't a highly-trained martial artist, but Jason Bourne is. That's the problem for the director.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:27 pm

Yeah but that's the point with Matt Damon. In the first film you can really see and appreciate that he can do a lot of that shit. That's why it was so good. In the second we know that he can do all the moves - so why the fark can't we damn well see them?
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Postby tapehead on Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:32 pm

True- his physical presence and the stunt work where it's clearly him is a big part of his role in the first installment, it's occured to me (and probably many when they watched Casino Royale) that Craig and those involved with the latest Bond must have taken note of this.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:11 pm

havocSchultz wrote:
The Todd wrote:


I think I heard this somewhere before. But where?



And this is what I wrote in there as well...

havocSchultz wrote:
tfactor wrote:Teh Bourne Ultimatum trailer is up


Hey, look, more Shaky-Cam goodness!!!

You'd think after all the money the first 2 made - they would be able to afford a fucking tripod or something...

Apparentely, in these movies - Damon is a badass and an expert fighter...
Too bad we'll never know!!!

I saw the first two movies - but I technically didn't see them...

I really dislike the over-use of shaky cameras for action scenes these days...

What happened to the good ole days when directors would actually let us see what was happening on the screen...?
As opposed to trying to convince us it's real and gritty and rough by throwing the camera through the air and editting the footage it captured during said fall into the film...?!?!!?


Are you prone to seizures or something? Do you have Downs Syndrome too? Perhaps you lost track of what the gist of this sentence is by the time you reach this period. Even with the shaky cam, I was able to follow fight scenes in both movies without spazzing out and worrying about what was going on, and I am not even that astute. Perhaps you should pay closer attention. Like reading fundamentals, but watching instead.

And the trailer was just ok. That jump at the end was cool, but not nearly as cool as the "SURPRISE LOL I AM WATCHING YOU WITH A SNIPER SCOPE LOL" moment from the last movie's trailer.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:21 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:
havocSchultz\" ][quote=\"The Todd wrote:


I think I heard this somewhere before. But where?



And this is what I wrote in there as well...

havocSchultz wrote:
tfactor wrote:Teh Bourne Ultimatum trailer is up


Hey, look, more Shaky-Cam goodness!!!

You'd think after all the money the first 2 made - they would be able to afford a fucking tripod or something...

Apparentely, in these movies - Damon is a badass and an expert fighter...
Too bad we'll never know!!!

I saw the first two movies - but I technically didn't see them...

I really dislike the over-use of shaky cameras for action scenes these days...

What happened to the good ole days when directors would actually let us see what was happening on the screen...?
As opposed to trying to convince us it's real and gritty and rough by throwing the camera through the air and editting the footage it captured during said fall into the film...?!?!!?


Are you prone to seizures or something? Do you have Downs Syndrome too? Perhaps you lost track of what the gist of this sentence is by the time you reach this period. Even with the shaky cam, I was able to follow fight scenes in both movies without spazzing out and worrying about what was going on, and I am not even that astute. Perhaps you should pay closer attention. Like reading fundamentals, but watching instead.

And the trailer was just ok. That jump at the end was cool, but not nearly as cool as the "SURPRISE LOL I AM WATCHING YOU WITH A SNIPER SCOPE LOL" moment from the last movie's trailer.[/quote]

Well I was watching this film real real close man. In fact Iwatched certain scenes twice, the car chase and the fight with the FHM magazine. I watched them with attentive eyes like I was studying something through a microscope. Yes, yo ucan see what is going on, but only JUST ABOUT! I shouldn't have to squint and really really concentrate that hard on simply watching an action scene (the action scenes are normally there so I can concentrate on wtf had just happened in the last plot exposition complicated dialogue bit whilst I watch some kick ass action). But even though I could just about keep up with the action, something is definitely wrong when the amount of edits to a car chase actually make the car chase feel actually SLOWER than it really is, or still not know who was hitting who in that punch up scene too. But worst of all is that this film just made me wanna rub m eyes as they were so numb and aching but worst than this, editing like this makes me feel so frustrated that I just wanna scream and throw something at the screen. Now when you consider all of this, how can that be good editing?
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Postby Seppuku on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:23 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:But worst of all is that this film just made me wanna rub m eyes as they were so numb and aching but worst than this, editing like this makes me feel so frustrated that I just wanna scream and throw something at the screen.


I get a pretty similar reaction whenever I read one of your posts.

:P :wink:
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:25 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:
havocSchultz wrote:
TheTodd wrote:


I think I heard this somewhere before. But where?



And this is what I wrote in there as well...

havocSchultz wrote:
tfactor wrote:Teh Bourne Ultimatum trailer is up


Hey, look, more Shaky-Cam goodness!!!

You'd think after all the money the first 2 made - they would be able to afford a fucking tripod or something...

Apparentely, in these movies - Damon is a badass and an expert fighter...
Too bad we'll never know!!!

I saw the first two movies - but I technically didn't see them...

I really dislike the over-use of shaky cameras for action scenes these days...

What happened to the good ole days when directors would actually let us see what was happening on the screen...?
As opposed to trying to convince us it's real and gritty and rough by throwing the camera through the air and editting the footage it captured during said fall into the film...?!?!!?


Are you prone to seizures or something? Do you have Downs Syndrome too? Perhaps you lost track of what the gist of this sentence is by the time you reach this period. Even with the shaky cam, I was able to follow fight scenes in both movies without spazzing out and worrying about what was going on, and I am not even that astute. Perhaps you should pay closer attention. Like reading fundamentals, but watching instead.

And the trailer was just ok. That jump at the end was cool, but not nearly as cool as the "SURPRISE LOL I AM WATCHING YOU WITH A SNIPER SCOPE LOL" moment from the last movie's trailer.


Well I was watching this film real real close man. In fact Iwatched certain scenes twice, the car chase and the fight with the FHM magazine. I watched them with attentive eyes like I was studying something through a microscope. Yes, yo ucan see what is going on, but only JUST ABOUT! I shouldn't have to squint and really really concentrate that hard on simply watching an action scene (the action scenes are normally there so I can concentrate on wtf had just happened in the last plot exposition complicated dialogue bit whilst I watch some kick ass action). But even though I could just about keep up with the action, something is definitely wrong when the amount of edits to a car chase actually make the car chase feel actually SLOWER than it really is, or still not know who was hitting who in that punch up scene too. But worst of all is that this film just made me wanna rub m eyes as they were so numb and aching but worst than this, editing like this makes me feel so frustrated that I just wanna scream and throw something at the screen. Now when you consider all of this, how can that be good editing?


Damn you Burl for making me have to agree with Kirk again...

At least from what I read in the first line or two...

Sorry guys...I kinda spazzed out after that...
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:26 pm

I think it might be an issue with your brain. Perhaps you write so incoherently because you see the world incoherently. Perhaps if I pounded you with a rolled up magazine on your head it might straighten you right out.

But seriously. The only people I ever hear complain about shaky cam and Bourne fight scenes are people on internet movie boards. So please, go on complaining while the producers, actors, writers and director make this the best espionage franchise ever.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:27 pm

seppukudkurosawa wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:But worst of all is that this film just made me wanna rub m eyes as they were so numb and aching but worst than this, editing like this makes me feel so frustrated that I just wanna scream and throw something at the screen.


I get a pretty similar reaction whenever I read one of your posts.

:P :wink:


Ah, such bliss.
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Postby havocSchultz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:30 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:I think it might be an issue with your brain. Perhaps you write so incoherently because you see the world incoherently. Perhaps if I pounded you with a rolled up magazine on your head it might straighten you right out.


It might help...I know that's how my GF got me to stop pissing on the carpet...
She wasn't really angry about it...
It's just that it was the carpet that tied the room together...
So you know how it goes...

But seriously, I could be a pretty slow learner...

So I hope you're dedicated...
And that you have strong wrists...

Because my head can take alot of abuse...

Just ask Kirk...

burlivesleftnut wrote:But seriously. The only people I ever hear complain about shaky cam and Bourne fight scenes are people on internet movie boards. So please, go on complaining while the producers, actors, writers and director make this the best espionage franchise ever.


Only until Condorman 2 & 3 come out...
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