PIRATES 3: AT SERIES END?

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

1-10, how do you rate, blah blah blah...

10
6
10%
9
7
12%
8
17
29%
7
12
20%
6
5
8%
5
1
2%
4
2
3%
3
2
3%
2
2
3%
1
1
2%
MY EYES! THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING!
4
7%
 
Total votes : 59

Postby DDMAN26 on Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:57 pm

Pirates of the Carribean:At World's End. I finally saw it this afternoon. I thought it was great. And I have to ask, what was so confusing about it. I heard and read several reviews saying the plot was confusing and disjointed. I didn't see it, I followed it just fine. Plus I loved hearing a little audio from the ride itself.
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Postby RogueScribner on Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:48 pm

I caught this movie yesterday and while I wasn't a huge fan of the second installment, I went into this one hopeful. Sadly, after about an hour into the movie, I pretty much lost hope and nothing that happened in the subsequent two hours restored it.

burlivesleftnut wrote:I didn't care for this that much. There was just too much hamfisted mythology added to the movie. And the Calypso thing was a stupid add on that was rendered pretty ridiculously. Gilliam-weird stuff works in Gilliam films, but Verbinski is no Gilliam. All the Davy Jones' Locker stuff was brilliant rendered, but narrativiely pointless. Why not just ditch all that by having Jack be a slave on the Flying Dutchman to start and that fey dick head from the east india company insists that Davy Jones free him to serve as a double agent in bringing down the pirates?

I didn't absolutely hate the movie, but it was thoughtlessly over-stuffed.

Also, why did just two ships enter the battle? What kind of naval battle is that? Two ships swirling around Calypso's head? Lame.

The ending did surprise me though, but any time a talentless pretty boy gets stabbed in the heart, I am both surprised and delighted.


The Calypso stuff went nowhere. All that build up for a swirl of water? Le sigh.

I liked parts of the Davey Jones locker stuff, but all that Jack stuff was just stupid and pointless. I was not entertained.

The end battle was fairly mundane considering the stakes that were in play. All this talk of war and taking a stand bla bla bla and two ships circle each other while people swing on ropes and sword fight. The action was much more entertaining in the previous installment, even if it did go on a little too long. The action here was mundane and rarely interesting or exciting. Did they blow their stunt budget on DMC?

The ending was interesting, but seeing as how I didn't really care much for Will in any of the installments, it was a bit dry. I liked how the pirates left off adventuring again. I'm not sure what Elizabeth did other than have a baby. Everyone else was dead, I guess. Huh.

John-Locke wrote:I was expecting a hell of a lot more swashbuckling action like the first two films had, the only slightly memorable action scene is the final battle which spread itself too thin for me, trying to tell too many stories at once without one central thread which really delivers.

There is no way of denying it, the film is too long, there is far too much double crossing and backstabbing and the film just drags.

There is a lot to like about the film too, Jack Sparrow is what you'd expect, overall probably not quite as funny as the last two but nothing to complain about. Davy Jones is very well done, Bill Nighy has done a great job bringing the character to life and the FX are stunning. The supporting comic actors all do their jobs well (except those two red coats from the first film who came back, god those guys are shit).

The real star of the film for me though was Barbosa, whenever he was involved in a scene it was magic, Rush really sank his teeth into the role and it's clear he's having a hell of a good time, if they decide to do another film I'd rather it be about him than Jack.


Ditto.

nodforlife wrote:Perhaps one of you may be able to answer these questions for me:

At the end of the movie, when it's just The Pearl, the Dutchman, and the East India Company Ship (I forget the name), why does Beckett take them on alone? He's assembled an entire armada to fight for him, and we already know from his previous actions that he's perfectly comfortable using others to achieve his own ends. It seemed very out of character for him to do this.

Also, I propose that Beckett is a good guy. Sure he kills some people ought not be killed, but his ultimate goal is to rid the world of pirates, who make their living robbing, pillaging, and instilling fear in the sea-going populace, most of whom are simply trying to make a living. So I ask you, why exactly is he bad? And why is this movie trying to make me feel good when the pirates win?


Because they needed to end the movie and having a huge war occur that late in the game would have added 30 minutes and $60 million to the film. So we got a lame wrap up to a lame story. And I pity the officers and crew on his ship. They were just doing their jobs. They weren't evil men. They were military. Serving their country. Oh well. It's a pirate movie. I guess anyone without an eye patch or a parrot is evil.


Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:I dunno. With all that back and forth double crossing/'are they really double crossing?' going on and the inevitable conclusion that happened at the film in the end, I wonder if it all really did add up to that much plot in the end. Really need to see the film twice and with double crossing map/chart to weed out the story there. Part of me thinks that the final battle in the island could have happened with lesser events and steps to lead up to it and all this back stabbing betraying back and forthness didn't REALLY contribute to this happening as much as one would think. Rather it just delayed it and disguised a more non eventfull lead up to it than one might have originally thought. I dunno, again, needs a repeat viewing.

At the end of the day when you walk out and look back on it, it does feel that less was going on in the movie than it appeared to whilst you were watching it.

The final battle was rather a let down and unremarkable, considering the build up and wait towards it. A whole Armada vs all of the Pirate ships big kick off fight. Do we get it? Nah fark that, instead we get an over extended battle scene between 2 Pirate ships with Calypso who is supposed to be helping Barbarossa's side, just becoming a whirlpool for 15 odd minutes of screentime. That's what we get from her power over nature. Cheers a lot luv!

That action sequence outstayed it's welcome after a while rather. That absolutely anger inducing awful wedding scene in the midst of the fight with some terrible line delivery and annoying fight timing and choreography amidst it, just killed the battle and made me fidget in my seat and want to shout out for them to SHUT UP!!!! The swordfight between Sparrow and Jones was pretty insignificantly done to be rendered quite invisible in the whole battle scene, as all the acion going on around the duel just seemed to overwhelm it. Why didn't those 2 ships have blasted each other to bits by the end? It went on forever. Why the fark did Calypso do neither side any favours as she was sucking them down the plughole? I thought she had chosen a side by then? Well if she hadn't, surely she could have wiped out both ships a lot easier. Oh and MAN did that scene drag on and on and on.

Again, all that much ado to pretty much nothing. All that set up with all the other Pirates and all those ships at sea, army to army. Yeah, this would be worth the trip of the film up to this point. But NO-OOOO!! No big Pirate/Armada War that one would have expected and pretty damn well should have deserved. Considering everything the story had dragged us through, and the impression of complexity and broadening of scale and scope that it was appearing to give us. Damn, it was as if the film makers denied us a bigger battle just to piss us off. It all just felt deliberate.



I'm scared. I actually agree with Kirk!


Yack Backer wrote:The first Pirates movie was fun. The second one was overdone. This third one is a forgettable jumble. Oh, how I long for the days of RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK-- where adventure really did have a name...


That about sums it up. I accidentally voted "2" when I meant "4" (forgot this was a 10 point ratings scale). AWE wasn't the worst movie I've seen, but I certainly wasn't expecting it to be less entertaining than DMC (and it was). DMC at least had its moments, even if they were stretched too long. AWE had moments stretched too long but hardly any of them were all that interesting. Someone posted something about the idea of condensing DMC and AWE into a single film. That would probably work. DMC was too jokey and the action scenes stretched for far too long. A tighter edit would have done that movie wonders. AWE largley lacked any wit and it set up several things without a satisfying pay off. And where was the action? What little action there was wasn't a tenth as interesting as anything in DMC. And both of those movies lacked the charm and heart and rousing adventure spirit of the first film. Unfortunately, I think the first film is tainted for me now. I should have just stuck with the first and not have bothered with the other two. Oh well.

Black Pearl: 4/5 stars
Dead Man's Chest: 2.5/5 stars
At World's End: 2/5 stars
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:05 pm

Will Scarlet wrote:Having been devastated at what happened to Will in the end of Pirates 3, I did come across something interesting via a friend who is an Orlando Bloom fan...

That apparently an additional bit was filmed, of Tia Dalma aka Calypso and Davy Jones talking, and because Elizabeth has been true to Will for 10 years, she has agreed to release him, and that is why as the ship sails in, Will is no longer wearing black, but is wearing a white shirt--it is so signify a new beginning ie life for him and Elizabeth. Is is also why he is standing on the mast and his father is now at the wheel of the boat...

Has anyone else heard this pirate tale?

W.S.

Tis true. Davy wigged out because Calypso was not faithful to him thus dooming him to eternity serving on the Duchman. Since Elizabeth was true to Will, he was free of the servitude once the time was up.....Unfortunately the current cut of the film makes it appear that they only get 24 hours together.
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:13 am

Chairman Kaga wrote:
Will Scarlet wrote:Having been devastated at what happened to Will in the end of Pirates 3, I did come across something interesting via a friend who is an Orlando Bloom fan...

That apparently an additional bit was filmed, of Tia Dalma aka Calypso and Davy Jones talking, and because Elizabeth has been true to Will for 10 years, she has agreed to release him, and that is why as the ship sails in, Will is no longer wearing black, but is wearing a white shirt--it is so signify a new beginning ie life for him and Elizabeth. Is is also why he is standing on the mast and his father is now at the wheel of the boat...

Has anyone else heard this pirate tale?

W.S.

Tis true. Davy wigged out because Calypso was not faithful to him thus dooming him to eternity serving on the Duchman. Since Elizabeth was true to Will, he was free of the servitude once the time was up.....Unfortunately the current cut of the film makes it appear that they only get 24 hours together.


Actually, Disney did an about face on that (which incidentally, has pissed off Will Scarlet ever since I told her). There's a DVD insert on the special edition that has a "Frequently Asked Questions" list that says he's bound forever. But then it also claims "but their love is a story yet to be told" which might be a loophole.

Personally, I'm willing to believe the writers on this one and that Will is indeed free. It's funny, I don't feel particularly bad for him, only Elizabeth who seems doomed to lose everyone.
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Postby bamf on Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:34 am

Faithful? Bah says I! I still contend that kid looked nothing like a ten year old, six at best!
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Postby Al Shut on Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:00 am

Lady Sheridan wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
Will Scarlet wrote:Having been devastated at what happened to Will in the end of Pirates 3, I did come across something interesting via a friend who is an Orlando Bloom fan...

That apparently an additional bit was filmed, of Tia Dalma aka Calypso and Davy Jones talking, and because Elizabeth has been true to Will for 10 years, she has agreed to release him, and that is why as the ship sails in, Will is no longer wearing black, but is wearing a white shirt--it is so signify a new beginning ie life for him and Elizabeth. Is is also why he is standing on the mast and his father is now at the wheel of the boat...

Has anyone else heard this pirate tale?

W.S.

Tis true. Davy wigged out because Calypso was not faithful to him thus dooming him to eternity serving on the Duchman. Since Elizabeth was true to Will, he was free of the servitude once the time was up.....Unfortunately the current cut of the film makes it appear that they only get 24 hours together.


Actually, Disney did an about face on that (which incidentally, has pissed off Will Scarlet ever since I told her). There's a DVD insert on the special edition that has a "Frequently Asked Questions" list that says he's bound forever. But then it also claims "but their love is a story yet to be told" which might be a loophole.

Personally, I'm willing to believe the writers on this one and that Will is indeed free. It's funny, I don't feel particularly bad for him, only Elizabeth who seems doomed to lose everyone.



Weird. Is it just me or does the decision to cut a scene of the movie to leave the chracters unhappy ever after (not counting the handful of days they have together) rather uncommon.

I can't say which version I would prefer. Knowing me it's probably always the one that isn't used.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:52 pm

bamf wrote:Faithful? Bah says I! I still contend that kid looked nothing like a ten year old, six at best!

Keep in mind the rampant malnutrition..
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Postby bamf on Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:09 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
bamf wrote:Faithful? Bah says I! I still contend that kid looked nothing like a ten year old, six at best!

Keep in mind the rampant malnutrition..


I know, thats what I'm saying! Elizabeth was cock starved, hence..
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:45 pm

Just watched this again on DVD, (loved it even more the third time around, and I definitely agree that Mori's first review of it is spot-on) and I still don't get why Beckett didn't give the order to shoot back. I just miss it somewhere. Any help?
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:05 pm

He was too wrapped up in the fact that he was essentially out foxed. It crushed his fragile ego and he stood there dumbfounded.
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:07 pm

Ah. I thought there was more to it, as he kept repeating 'It's just business' to himself, though.

Do you know anyone who worked on this, Kaga? The effects are just incredible.
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Postby TonyWilson on Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:11 pm

One of the worst endings to a series that was 2 for 2 previously. I was really pissed of because I love Dead Man's Chest more than the first one, I'd put it up there with The Temple Of Doom for pure enjoyment.
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:15 pm

I liked the ending a lot, actually. It was the perfect way to leave pretty much all the characters - Jack's the same selfish jackass he always was, Davey Jones is back in the Locker with Calypso, Will is sailing the Dutchman with his dad, and Keira's back on shore, taking care of the kids. :lol:

Like Mori said in his review, this one takes a few times to really get the full effect. If you've only seen it once in the theater, I recommend taking your time through another viewing at home. It's worth it.
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Postby DaleTremont on Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:07 am

Zarles wrote:I liked the ending a lot, actually. It was the perfect way to leave pretty much all the characters - Jack's the same selfish jackass he always was, Davey Jones is back in the Locker with Calypso, Will is sailing the Dutchman with his dad, and Keira's back on shore, taking care of the kids. :lol:


Except I kinda wanted Jack and Elizabeth sailing off on the Black Pearl, kissing and groping wildly in the crow's nest while Will mops the deck and cries.

....but that's just me.

Spike with Buffy. Veronica with Logan. (And I must confess to a pervy desire to see Juno end up with Jason Bateman...just because it would be so WRONG :twisted: ) It's always hotter to see the chicks end up with the guys who aren't good for them.
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Postby Retardo_Montalban on Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:21 am

You know, I sort of wanted the movie to end with Will showing up ten years later coincidentally with Jack along, and Knightly slapping Jack in the face like them hookers on Tortuga. I'm going to assume that little boy is Jack's kid.
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Postby DaleTremont on Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:49 am

Retardo_Montalban wrote:You know, I sort of wanted the movie to end with Will showing up ten years later coincidentally with Jack along, and Knightly slapping Jack in the face like them hookers on Tortuga. I'm going to assume that little boy is Jack's kid.


hahaha

That would have been pretty subtle...not sure most people would be able to pick up on it. But I love where you headspace is at!
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Postby Zarles on Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:30 am

Or mabe the kid's got tentacles hanging from his face! :shock:
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Postby so sorry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:30 am

Just watched this this past week.

I am one of the few on the complete opposite spectrum with the POTC movies: I thought they sucked undead monkey balls.
Just couldn't get into any of it (although I give the first one a pass becuase, well, it was the first and I could stomach Deeps ALF acting).
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:53 pm

DaleTremont wrote:
Zarles wrote:I liked the ending a lot, actually. It was the perfect way to leave pretty much all the characters - Jack's the same selfish jackass he always was, Davey Jones is back in the Locker with Calypso, Will is sailing the Dutchman with his dad, and Keira's back on shore, taking care of the kids. :lol:


Except I kinda wanted Jack and Elizabeth sailing off on the Black Pearl, kissing and groping wildly in the crow's nest while Will mops the deck and cries.

....but that's just me.


Nah...it's me too. :D

The ending annoys me largely because I stopped feeling for Will as a character, particularly since he snubbed her in favor of saving his father. He curses himself in Dead Man's Chest, actually.

The ending, with the sunset, the sea, and that lovely score, would be so gorgeous and heartbreaking if it was anyone else but Will Turner! And only Will would be all "Depends on the day" when his dad is saying "Sucks to be you."

I wish Disney had the guts to do the ending they were obviously aching to do--and that's have Will and Elizabeth grow apart through the course of their adventures, and hook her up with Jack. Will could still captain the Dutchman, but she should have ended up with Jack in a wonderful, untrusting love.

Or have Will find out Elizabeth was his sister, that could have solved the love triangle too. ;)
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Postby Zarles on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:01 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:
DaleTremont wrote:
Zarles wrote:I liked the ending a lot, actually. It was the perfect way to leave pretty much all the characters - Jack's the same selfish jackass he always was, Davey Jones is back in the Locker with Calypso, Will is sailing the Dutchman with his dad, and Keira's back on shore, taking care of the kids. :lol:


Except I kinda wanted Jack and Elizabeth sailing off on the Black Pearl, kissing and groping wildly in the crow's nest while Will mops the deck and cries.

....but that's just me.


Nah...it's me too. :D

The ending annoys me largely because I stopped feeling for Will as a character, particularly since he snubbed her in favor of saving his father.


Bros before hos, man! ;)

Having Elizabeth wind up with Jack would be showing that Jack learned something and grew up, which is exactly what I DON'T think they wanted to do. Jack will always be Jack, and he's always going to be the type who's just looking for the next port (no yucky pun intended).

Jack's a lot like Peter Pan, in my opinion.
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Postby DaleTremont on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:06 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:
DaleTremont wrote:
Zarles wrote:I liked the ending a lot, actually. It was the perfect way to leave pretty much all the characters - Jack's the same selfish jackass he always was, Davey Jones is back in the Locker with Calypso, Will is sailing the Dutchman with his dad, and Keira's back on shore, taking care of the kids. :lol:


Except I kinda wanted Jack and Elizabeth sailing off on the Black Pearl, kissing and groping wildly in the crow's nest while Will mops the deck and cries.

....but that's just me.


Nah...it's me too. :D

The ending annoys me largely because I stopped feeling for Will as a character, particularly since he snubbed her in favor of saving his father. He curses himself in Dead Man's Chest, actually.

The ending, with the sunset, the sea, and that lovely score, would be so gorgeous and heartbreaking if it was anyone else but Will Turner! And only Will would be all "Depends on the day" when his dad is saying "Sucks to be you."

I wish Disney had the guts to do the ending they were obviously aching to do--and that's have Will and Elizabeth grow apart through the course of their adventures, and hook her up with Jack. Will could still captain the Dutchman, but she should have ended up with Jack in a wonderful, untrusting love.

Or have Will find out Elizabeth was his sister, that could have solved the love triangle too. ;)


In-fucking-deed.

At the end of DMC when Jack and Elizabeth kissed, I was like, "Shit yeah they're taking this where everyone knows it would go." The chemistry between them was always there, and they had the cojones to follow through on it. But then in World's End they lost their nerve and settled for the Hollywood ending everyone knows is really bullshit. Oh well. I just pretend that 5 minutes after that Elizabeth pats the kid on the head, sends him off to a nice boarding school, and follows her lusty heart to Jack :wink:
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Postby Zarles on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:09 pm

Why do you all always want to wind up with the dangerous, unstable ones?

Girls. :roll:

The Elizabeth/Will love story started back in the first movie, for chrissakes. You think they should've just dumped it with 20 minutes left to go in the whole trilogy?
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:11 pm

Zarles wrote:
Bros before hos, man! ;)

Having Elizabeth wind up with Jack would be showing that Jack learned something and grew up, which is exactly what I DON'T think they wanted to do. Jack will always be Jack, and he's always going to be the type who's just looking for the next port (no yucky pun intended).

Jack's a lot like Peter Pan, in my opinion.


I always figured it would be a relationship with an "understanding." Elizabeth would have been her own captain, sailing the seas and ruling as Pirate King...and hooking up with Jack with their paths crossed.

But that might have been too much for a Disney flick. That's the Elizabeth Swann I see potential for, though! She deserved better than waiting on an island for ten years. (Though, Local Jack pointed out it looks like they are in England at the end, not the Caribbean.)
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Postby Zarles on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:13 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:But that might have been too much for a Disney flick. That's the Elizabeth Swann I see potential for, though! She deserved better than waiting on an island for ten years. (Though, Local Jack pointed out it looks like they are in England at the end, not the Caribbean.)


That's what I mean - this is a Disney movie, and the love story's been set up for three movies. They couldn't have just dumped it there.

I like the idea of Liz getting a little swashbucklin' in on the side, though. :lol:
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:16 pm

Zarles wrote:Why do you all always want to wind up with the dangerous, unstable ones?

Girls. :roll:

The Elizabeth/Will love story started back in the first movie, for chrissakes. You think they should've just dumped it with 20 minutes left to go in the whole trilogy?


I wouldn't have had a problem with keeping it if Will had chosen Elizabeth over his father.

If it had been the passion that carried on through 3 movies, I'd be all "sniffle!" But to me, it's a childish love that begins in the first movie and ends in DMC when Will swears to his father that he'll free him, or die trying. At that moment, he forgets about saving Elizabeth (his original objective) and focuses on his father. It's so unromantic as to kill any attachment I had for their love story.

I'm not totally alone in that--Local Jack hates Elizabeth Swann for precisely one line, when she tells Will that he can't trust her...he sees that as her true betrayal of him. And I see it as an admission she's growing more comfortable in the pirate world, more than Will, and will do anything she has to.

Disney was laying all the groundwork for the two of them growing up and out of their relationship. If they wanted a storybook romance, they failed miserably, imho.
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Postby DaleTremont on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:22 pm

Zarles wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:But that might have been too much for a Disney flick. That's the Elizabeth Swann I see potential for, though! She deserved better than waiting on an island for ten years. (Though, Local Jack pointed out it looks like they are in England at the end, not the Caribbean.)


That's what I mean - this is a Disney movie, and the love story's been set up for three movies. They couldn't have just dumped it there.

I like the idea of Liz getting a little swashbucklin' in on the side, though. :lol:


Yeah but they started to set up the Jack storyline even in the first movie I'd say. It's super subtle but they have that moment on the boat together alone when meaningful glances are exchanged. And then obviously in DMC, the compass doesn't lie! Jack is what Elizabeth's heart most desires. She's a pirate herself, and the fact that they have her settle down with a bun in the oven, living out ten years in total domesticity- well, that's just gentlemanary to everything they've told us up to that point.
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Postby Zarles on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:23 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:
Zarles wrote:Why do you all always want to wind up with the dangerous, unstable ones?

Girls. :roll:

The Elizabeth/Will love story started back in the first movie, for chrissakes. You think they should've just dumped it with 20 minutes left to go in the whole trilogy?


I wouldn't have had a problem with keeping it if Will had chosen Elizabeth over his father.

If it had been the passion that carried on through 3 movies, I'd be all "sniffle!" But to me, it's a childish love that begins in the first movie and ends in DMC when Will swears to his father that he'll free him, or die trying. At that moment, he forgets about saving Elizabeth (his original objective) and focuses on his father. It's so unromantic as to kill any attachment I had for their love story.

I'm not totally alone in that--Local Jack hates Elizabeth Swann for precisely one line, when she tells Will that he can't trust her...he sees that as her true betrayal of him. And I see it as an admission she's growing more comfortable in the pirate world, more than Will, and will do anything she has to.

Disney was laying all the groundwork for the two of them growing up and out of their relationship. If they wanted a storybook romance, they failed miserably, imho.


But Will choosing Bootstraps over Elizabeth was the tragedy of it, the tragedy that gets resolved when he comes back for her at the end. She knew that all along, too - remember in AWE when she goes to see Bootstraps aboard the Dutchman?

Also, I think Jack dislikes/mistrusts her for more than one line - she did 'kill' him after all, and he makes reference to that fact in a pretty snide way multiple times in AWE. Personally, I don't think he'd want to wind up with her in the end at all. Yeah, he was interested in her for the majority of the first two movies, but in addition to that, he pretty much uses her for his own advantage throughout the whole third movie. In my understanding, that's why he gets her elected Pirate King - to get her to start a fight and kill all his enemies. That's not exactly the motions of someone who wants to spend any more time with you than they need to, I think.
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Postby Zarles on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:25 pm

DaleTremont wrote:
Zarles wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:But that might have been too much for a Disney flick. That's the Elizabeth Swann I see potential for, though! She deserved better than waiting on an island for ten years. (Though, Local Jack pointed out it looks like they are in England at the end, not the Caribbean.)


That's what I mean - this is a Disney movie, and the love story's been set up for three movies. They couldn't have just dumped it there.

I like the idea of Liz getting a little swashbucklin' in on the side, though. :lol:


Yeah but they started to set up the Jack storyline even in the first movie I'd say. It's super subtle but they have that moment on the boat together alone when meaningful glances are exchanged. And then obviously in DMC, the compass doesn't lie! Jack is what Elizabeth's heart most desires. She's a pirate herself, and the fact that they have her settle down with a bun in the oven, living out ten years in total domesticity- well, that's just gentlemanary to everything they've told us up to that point.


Ah yes, the compass. You're right about what it pointed to in DMC, but remember what it pointed to at the end of AWE? Rum, and the open ocean. Not Elizabeth.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:30 pm

Zarles wrote:
Ah yes, the compass. You're right about what it pointed to in DMC, but remember what it pointed to at the end of AWE? Rum, and the open ocean. Not Elizabeth.


See, that was my question...throughout. I could buy Elizabeth falling in love with Jack and all that, they did a good job from the first movie on of setting up that possibility. But I never really thought Jack loved Elizabeth. He was infatuated with her, wanted to get her out of her dress, sure, but his first and only real love was pirating.

EDIT: and himself, of course....
Last edited by Lord Voldemoo on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby unikrunk on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:30 pm

Lady S, Dale T, my wife could not agree with you more; she could not tolerate Doogie Houser (her words) from the get-go. To her mind, it should always have been Jack and Elizabeth, with the hot-elf-chick (again, her words) sidelined.

Also, I showed her your sig pic, Lady S, and then had to wipe the drool off her chin. Fucking Viggo is killing it around here; how am I supposed to compete with that? Oh and thanks for showing off your junk in Eastern Promises dude, thanks a lot. I wake up the other night, and my wife has that scene cued up. Me: “Hey, whatcha watchin?â€
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Postby DaleTremont on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:31 pm

Zarles wrote:
DaleTremont wrote:
Zarles wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:But that might have been too much for a Disney flick. That's the Elizabeth Swann I see potential for, though! She deserved better than waiting on an island for ten years. (Though, Local Jack pointed out it looks like they are in England at the end, not the Caribbean.)


That's what I mean - this is a Disney movie, and the love story's been set up for three movies. They couldn't have just dumped it there.

I like the idea of Liz getting a little swashbucklin' in on the side, though. :lol:


Yeah but they started to set up the Jack storyline even in the first movie I'd say. It's super subtle but they have that moment on the boat together alone when meaningful glances are exchanged. And then obviously in DMC, the compass doesn't lie! Jack is what Elizabeth's heart most desires. She's a pirate herself, and the fact that they have her settle down with a bun in the oven, living out ten years in total domesticity- well, that's just gentlemanary to everything they've told us up to that point.


Ah yes, the compass. You're right about what it pointed to in DMC, but remember what it pointed to at the end of AWE? Rum, and the open ocean. Not Elizabeth.


I meant what it pointed to when Elizabeth held it. Actually I don't think the compass pointed to Elizabeth when Jack had it, did it?

You're right that generally Jack is a little more ambiguous....about everything. Morality especially. But I still say there was something there for him too. There was lust, certainly. But also respect. And if that's not enough to sustain a lifelong courtship (if not a lifelong partnership), I don't know what is.
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Postby Zarles on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:33 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Zarles wrote:
Ah yes, the compass. You're right about what it pointed to in DMC, but remember what it pointed to at the end of AWE? Rum, and the open ocean. Not Elizabeth.


See, that was my question...throughout. I could buy Elizabeth falling in love with Jack and all that, they did a good job from the first movie on of setting up that possibility. But I never really thought Jack loved Elizabeth. He was infatuated with her, wanted to get her out of her dress, sure, but his first and only real love was pirating.

EDIT: and himself, of course....


That's my take on it. Jack's a no-good scallywag, and he's always going to be a no-good scallywag. When has he ever done anything for anyone but himself?


DaleTremont wrote:You're right that generally Jack is a little more ambiguous....about everything. Morality especially. But I still say there was something there for him too. There was lust, certainly. But also respect. And if that's not enough to sustain a lifelong courtship (if not a lifelong partnership), I don't know what is.


I don't think Jack knows what the word 'courtship' means. Partnership, maybe. Friendship, maybe. Their interaction at the end of AWE when they bid each other farewell speaks volumes - he won't even touch her. Not a hug, kiss... nothing. He's used her once, and he'll use her again to get what he wants, but besides that - I doubt it.
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:37 pm

[quote="unikrunk"]Lady S, Dale T, my wife could not agree with you more; she could not tolerate Doogie Houser (her words) from the get-go. To her mind, it should always have been Jack and Elizabeth, with the hot-elf-chick (again, her words) sidelined.

Also, I showed her your sig pic, Lady S, and then had to wipe the drool off her chin. Fucking Viggo is killing it around here; how am I supposed to compete with that? Oh and thanks for showing off your junk in Eastern Promises dude, thanks a lot. I wake up the other night, and my wife has that scene cued up. Me: “Hey, whatcha watchin?â€
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:41 pm

Zarles wrote:
I don't think Jack knows what the word 'courtship' means. Partnership, maybe. Friendship, maybe. Their interaction at the end of AWE when they bid each other farewell speaks volumes - he won't even touch her. Not a hug, kiss... nothing. He's used her once, and he'll use her again to get what he wants, but besides that - I doubt it.


But she's also married at that point, and off to go sleep with her undead husband. And Jack has other things on his mind like...well, who knows.

I think Elizabeth would have used Jack the same way. That's why I like them as a pair-up. Both of them inevitably going back to the other, only to screw them over again. It would have been awesome.

I do think Jack cares for her, deep down, he doesn't realize it. The flicker on his face when Will (captured by cannibals) says "They're going to hang her!" Jack has alot of little moments like that that betray his true heart. Look at his expression when Will is stabbed by Davy Jones. He does have love for people in his life, he's just unwilling to admit it.

So if he and Elizabeth paired up, he'd be all "Whatever, back to me whores" while deep down, dreaming about her while swigging his rum.
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Postby Zarles on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:54 pm

Fine, but that was BEFORE she killed his rummy ass. :lol:

Like Moo said, he might've wanted to get into her pants, and maybe he even considered her a friend, but as a mate for life? Doubtful. He does have his sweet and benevolent side, I will definitely agree with that. He's certainly not a villain, but with all the triple-deals he makes with people, it's almost like it's a case of whom he dislikes/mistrusts less.

He's a good man at heart, but I'll sum it up with my favorite line of Jack's from the whole series (hint: it's from the first movie) that truly sums up who I deem him to be:

'Pirate!'
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Postby DaleTremont on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:55 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:"Whatever, back to me whores"


hahahaha

That needs to be some kind of catchphrase. I might have to steal it.

By "courtship" I meant more, "Fight, bang, part ways. Fight, bang, part ways. Fight, bang...." You get the picture.
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Postby Zarles on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:57 pm

DaleTremont wrote:By "courtship" I meant more, "Fight, bang, part ways. Fight, bang, part ways. Fight, bang...." You get the picture.


Ah, yes - every relationship I've ever had. Gotcha.
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Postby unikrunk on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:57 pm

DaleTremont wrote:
Lady Sheridan wrote:"Whatever, back to me whores"


hahahaha

That needs to be some kind of catchphrase. I might have to steal it.

By "courtship" I meant more, "Fight, bang, part ways. Fight, bang, part ways. Fight, bang...." You get the picture.


You just summed up my entire life in one sentence. Top Drawer.

I will be over here, crying in the corner if anyone wants to poke me with a stick, or something.
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:59 pm

Do you know what this debate did? It summoned up Jack Sparrow. Local Jack just arrived at my house unannounced.

Thus we can never discuss Pirates again. It has too much power.

However, I think we should discuss "300" or any Viggo movie ad infinitum to see if it can summon others here.
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Postby Zarles on Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:12 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:Do you know what this debate did? It summoned up Jack Sparrow. Local Jack just arrived at my house unannounced.

Thus we can never discuss Pirates again. It has too much power.

However, I think we should discuss "300" or any Viggo movie ad infinitum to see if it can summon others here.


:lol:

If Maria Bello shows up anywhere near you, let me know, eh?
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Postby Will Scarlet on Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:21 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:
Zarles wrote:
I don't think Jack knows what the word 'courtship' means. Partnership, maybe. Friendship, maybe. Their interaction at the end of AWE when they bid each other farewell speaks volumes - he won't even touch her. Not a hug, kiss... nothing. He's used her once, and he'll use her again to get what he wants, but besides that - I doubt it.


But she's also married at that point, and off to go sleep with her undead husband. And Jack has other things on his mind like...well, who knows.

I think Elizabeth would have used Jack the same way. That's why I like them as a pair-up. Both of them inevitably going back to the other, only to screw them over again. It would have been awesome.

I do think Jack cares for her, deep down, he doesn't realize it. The flicker on his face when Will (captured by cannibals) says "They're going to hang her!" Jack has alot of little moments like that that betray his true heart. Look at his expression when Will is stabbed by Davy Jones. He does have love for people in his life, he's just unwilling to admit it.

So if he and Elizabeth paired up, he'd be all "Whatever, back to me whores" while deep down, dreaming about her while swigging his rum.


While we're on the subject of the undead, let's not forget Jack must be one of the undead as well, as he was chomped by the "beastie".

I'm still mad about the end of this movie and will always harbor hatred for Disney for denying me the fairy tale ending I have come to expect. You couldn't even fix it for me on the DVD!!!

There are too many plot holes in 3 to even mention, but how can your heart not be torn to bits with that ending? Elisabeth is going to keep aging, 10 years each time Will comes back. When she dies, unless she does it at sea, she can't even get a ride to the next world with her husband. No matter how you look at it, she gets screwed. Despite my adoration of this love match, I will agree with Lady Sheridan that Will did do this to himself. He did curse himself, and Mr. Honorable did say that to ferry the dead was a great responsibility and that's why he gets in the way of the sword.

Granted, they all knew he would die if he didn't stab the heart, and I get all the drama, but now that all that heart business is over, can't we fix this so prince charming gets his lady fair too? Disney, you did me wrong!

Why couldn't Jack have become the man Elisabeth thought he was, step up to the challenge and get the eternal life on the seas he wants and take on the job? As I said, he's one of the undead already, should be really easy. Let's not forget the guy I hate most in all this, Will's father! Even he says Will is making the wrong choice.

Ok, there is one plot hole I have to mention, just because it could have made the way out of this gut wrenching ending. Will's sacrifice free's the ship and crew of the "curse". He say's to dear old Dad, "your free now, go live your life." But Dad chooses to stay with Will. Disney says that these guys are are for all intents and purposes dead. They can't come back. Excuse me? They look pretty alive and healthy to me, and a good many of them had taken Jone's offer to serve with him rather than take death, so they never really died, they were cursed.

I hate this kind of shit! Let Will's dad take the ship, and give Will back to Elisabeth. If he must pay with 10 years, so be it, at least he'd get the remainder of his life with her and see his son grow up.

I could shout on this all night...Damn Disney....poor Will, poor Elisabeth, poor kid, and Jack gets to sail off into the sunset, heart and rum intact.

Oh, and I do agree, Jack cares very much for this couple, but he'd stayed the scalliwag he was--never going to give up the rum and whores will Jack.
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Re: PIRATES 3: AT SERIES END?

Postby Al Shut on Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:31 am

I have to say the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie seemed much better than I remembered when I watched it yesterday. Maybe I should have stayed away from that double feature when it hit theaters.
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Re: PIRATES 3: AT SERIES END?

Postby TheButcher on Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:41 am

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Re: PIRATES 3: AT SERIES END?

Postby TheButcher on Sat May 27, 2017 3:56 am

COLLIDER MAY 26, 2017:
‘Pirates of the Caribbean’ 2 and 3: In Defense of Gore Verbinski’s Gloriously Weird Sequels
ADAM CHITWOOD wrote:
When Disney released Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl in 2003, few thought the film would actually work. This was Orlando Bloom getting a shot at movie stardom after scene-stealing work as Legolas in Lord of the Rings by way of a pirate movie based on a theme park ride. Pirate movies, historically, had not fared well in quite some time, and the disaster of Cutthroat Island was still fresh in everyone’s minds. Plus, the film was anchored by actor Johnny Depp—far from a movie star at the time, known mainly for starring in smaller, critically acclaimed and/or cult films.

But a funny thing happened—Pirates of the Caribbean was actually good! More than good, the film was great. Audiences flocked to see this buzzworthy portrayal by Depp, were enraptured by the dazzling effects, and swooned for Bloom and Keira Knightley. The movie—which, again, was predicted to be a massive bomb before release—went on to gross over $650 million worldwide, launching a new banner franchise for Disney. But the main reason Curse of the Black Pearl was so great is precisely the reason why I think its next two sequels work (and, yes, are supremely underrated): director Gore Verbinski.

When Verbinski was hired to direct this massive Disney blockbuster, he only had a couple of films under his belt. His calling card, The Ring, wouldn’t hit theaters for another few months, and before that he had mainly worked into the comedy genre with The Mexican and MouseHunt. But what those three films showed was a perfect cocktail of ambition and talent that perfectly suited Verbinski for Pirates, and while he had never worked with such extensive visual effects or set pieces before, his hiring resulted in something almost magical.

So when Pirates of the Caribbean opened to big box office, critical acclaim, and a Best Actor Oscar nomination for Depp, Disney went all-in for the sequel, opting to shoot two sequels back-to-back. Writers Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio got to work crafting a pair of narratively complex, wildly ambitious follow-ups, and Verbinski returned to get downright weird with it.

That’s the key—Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chest and Pirates of the Caribbean: At World’s End are weird movies. They don’t follow the normal trajectory of a sequel. Instead of simply trying to recreate the fun of Curse of the Black Pearl with a new story, Elliott and Rossio wrote new chapters of the same story. They retroactively turn what were no doubt fun flourishes from the first movie into major plot points (like Jack’s compass or the legend of Boostrap Bill Turner). And somewhat miraculously, they work. Oftentimes when this sort of rejiggering is attempted, the “answers” to questions the first movie posed are underwhelming or dumb. But like a good novel, Elliott and Rossio’s answers raise even more questions, allowing the narrative to unwind and fold back in on itself over and over again, keeping the audience guessing as to where this is all headed.

As director, Verbinski had to keep all of this cohesive. Some audiences complained that the sequels were too complicated, too complex. But I’ll take a tightly knotted narrative over a simple, bland story any day—especially in a sequel. Moreover, the complexity of the narrative allows for various character arcs and tracks to play out over the course of both Dead Man’s Chest and At World’s End to fulfilling results. Elizabeth Swann goes from damsel in distress to Pirate King; Will goes from shy blacksmith to daring pirate hero; and Jack ever-so-slightly evolves from self-absorbed drunkard to slightly less self-absorbed drunkard.

Speaking of which, the character of Jack Sparrow is also handled tremendously well in the sequels. The best point of comparison is the abysmal fourth film in the franchise, Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides, which saw a different director at the helm, a smaller budget, and a new cast. That film paints Jack Sparrow as the protagonist, but what Verbinski understood was that Jack Sparrow is not a protagonist—he’s a supporting character. He’s wily and weird and charming, but he’s mostly unchanging and a little of Depp’s goofiness goes a long way. Dead Man’s Chest and At World’s End are populated with enough other characters to keep Jack at arm’s length, and the story arc of this trilogy is very much the tale of doomed lovers Will Turner and Elizabeth Swann.

And visually speaking, Verbinski never shied away from trying different things, stuff that you wouldn’t normally see in a franchise blockbuster. At World’s End, the third film in a multimillion-dollar blockbuster franchise from Disney, opens with mass hangings, including that of a small child. It serves to reinforce the idea that freedom is under siege from the East India Trading Company, and raise the stakes for the trilogy-capper, but it’s still an incredibly macabre way to begin a summer blockbuster.

Macabre notions permeate throughout this initial trilogy, with Verbinski reveling in the visual delights of deadly ghosts or hideous sea creatures, all of which dimensionalize the dangerous yet alluring atmosphere of Pirates of the Caribbean. These films feel strange, which in turn makes them unique. They’re never trying to be cutesy or rounding off the edges to appeal to a wider demographic. It’s precisely Verbinski’s willingness and desire to make these movies weird that makes them stand out from the pack. While Curse of the Black Pearl certainly delved into the supernatural, these follow-ups doubled-down on that aspect of the franchise, venturing to the literal afterlife to trippy results. And while some of the set pieces can go on for a little too long, they’re at least visually kind of crazy. The maelstrom sequence at the end of At World’s End is massively complex, with various different in-fights happening at the same time, but that’s not enough—Verbinski also throws a wedding between Will and Elizabeth into the mix. That’s weird! And I love it.

The uniqueness of Dead Man’s Chest and At World’s End is especially refreshing in an era where blockbuster sequels are regularly same-y to the point of being downright dull. Can anyone really tell the Transformers sequels apart aside from Shia LaBeouf being replaced by Mark Wahlberg? It’s just robots + destruction + pretty ladies + one-liners. Every. Single. Time. The Pirates sequels feel dangerous; ambitious to the point that no studio in their right mind would A-OK this.

Verbinski got away with something here, and while audiences didn’t immediately respond, these movies have aged incredibly well. Every studio is chasing its own interconnected universe—which is fine; Marvel certainly knows what it’s doing—but there’s something to be said for an epic, ambitious, and narratively complex trilogy made on a massive scale, directed by a man whose desire to make some seriously weird movies was miraculously undeterred. Dead Man’s Chest and At World’s End are lightning in a bottle, and that bottle has aged very, very well.



‘Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales’: About That Post-Credits Scene
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