The Official Live Free or Review Hard Thread! (SPOILERS)

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

"I'll kiss your fucking dalmatian..."

Best. Die Hard. Evar. (even better than the 1st...)
2
5%
Worse Than the 1st - Better than the other 2...
11
25%
Better Than the 2nd - Worse than the other 2...
7
16%
Better Than the 3rd - Worse than the other 2...
6
14%
Worst. Die Hard. Evar. (but at least it's better than Underworld...)
9
20%
Even worse than Underworld...
1
2%
I'm waiting till Die Hard in a Living Room...(DVD, etc...)
8
18%
Fuck Die Hard (I won't be seeing this...)
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 44

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:47 am

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Postby godzillasushi on Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:53 am

See, im pretty confused. Vern is like "It's not so bad" after ripping on it for months. Quint, subtly, doesn't like the movie. I'm totally lost. Although, I don't think it's nearly as bad as what some people say. And some of the pre-screening reviews were positive so hey, it probably isn't.
Last edited by godzillasushi on Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tapehead on Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:55 am

It's not the White House, it's the Capitol Building.

and Quint's review is not subtle.
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Postby godzillasushi on Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:11 am

tapehead wrote:and Quint's review is not subtle.


Sorry, forgot the italics on that one :wink:
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Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:12 am

godzillasushi wrote:See, im pretty confused. Vern is like "It's not so bad" after ripping on it for months.


Vern wasn't exactly ripping on it for months... you should refer to the Walter B appearance in the TBs for Vern's opinion.
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Postby godzillasushi on Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:15 am

Pacino86845 wrote:
godzillasushi wrote:See, im pretty confused. Vern is like "It's not so bad" after ripping on it for months.


Vern wasn't exactly ripping on it for months... you should refer to the Walter B appearance in the TBs for Vern's opinion.


Yea I know it wasn't months, I was....ARRGGGGG....I was overstating everything. I should just put everything in italics for now on...

I have read all that stuff. Just, typing things out over the top and what not.
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Postby BuckyO'harre on Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:42 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:I heard the blood in the PG-13 version is grey-colored...




FUCKINGSNESMORTALKOMBATVERSIONILASH!
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Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:15 pm

Thank you! OLD SCHOOL, BABY!!
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Postby DennisMM on Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:49 pm

Adam Balm wrote:That seems to be mirroring Devin Faraci's reaction:

Now, two decades and two sequels later, John McClane has become just another superhuman action star, engaged in stunts and feats that stretch incredulity, demolish disbelief and betray the basic concept of the series. In previous installments we’ve seen a John McClane who had real personal issues and problems; in Live Free or Die Hard John McClane’s biggest character flaw is that he’s too protective of his now-grown up daughter. The man who once tied a fire hose around his waist and made a terrifying jump off a roof and barely believes he survived leaps forty feet off the wing of a crashing Harrier jet, lands hard on an upended piece of an expressway and slides down it as the fireball of the exploding jet chases him. This John McClane gets up, dusts himself off and immediately sees the bad guys he lost fifteen minutes earlier. This isn’t isn’t Die Hard 4, it’s Bald Terminator 4.


Sounds pretty much like what I said without having seen the film -- just a different Arnold title.
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Postby Willowwind on Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:56 pm

Just got back from the movie. It was good but not even close to the first. I wanted to bitch-slap the "villain" because he was so whiny. I actually thought he was going to cry once.

I admit I missed the cussing. I'm sorry but if someone is trying to kill me all day I'm gonna be throwing a few fucks around.

I'd give it an 7.5 out of 10 and the Mac guy didn't suck which was a bonus.
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Postby havocSchultz on Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:46 pm

I actually really enjoyed it - for the most part...

I'll try to actually go into some detail tomorrow - but save for some major complaints with the ending - it was enjoyable.

I'd give it an 8...if that's the poll I had put up - otherwise - it's probably too early to choose which (if any) it might be better than...

But more on all that tomorrow...
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:15 am

Adam Balm wrote:That seems to be mirroring Devin Faraci's reaction:

The man who once tied a fire hose around his waist and made a terrifying jump off a roof and barely believes he survived leaps forty feet off the wing of a crashing Harrier jet, lands hard on an upended piece of an expressway and slides down it as the fireball of the exploding jet chases him. This John McClane gets up, dusts himself off and immediately sees the bad guys he lost fifteen minutes earlier.


The Dino, he would a say that these two scenarios, they are a not a necessarily inna the opposition, no? It has a been a the 20 years, after all, no? Nobody seem a to have a the problem with a the Bruce Wayne/Batman making a the mistakes inna the Batman Begins, no? They alla say "but he's a not a the Batman yet, eh? He's a just a learning, no?"

The Dino, he sees a this as a the same thing, no? It's a like, of a course a the McClane, he's a gonna to be inna the disbelief of a the firehose leap a to freedom inna the first film, eh? It's a the first time he's a hadda to do something like a that, no? Twenty-odd years later, he's a the battle-weary veteran, eh? "Just another day atta the office, eh?" Heheheh...

Of a course, the Dino, he's a not saying that a the picture, she is a the good or a the bad... I'm a just a pointing out that a the portrayal of a the character, she may not a be alla that inna'consistent is all, eh?
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:39 am

It seems that the kick ass action is there in this film. Personally what else I want from this film is a cool McClane character.

SPOILERS.




It is said that he is finally divorced from Holly and his daughter isn't talking to him. I want to see this gone into with a bit more exploration. Like DH3 did with this. I'm gutted and upset for good ol' boy McClane that he isn't rewarded for his world saving heroisms and that at the end of the day he is just a normal everyday man whose life hasn't worked out for him the way he wanted. Just a normal guy. I think if all of the above is detailed out enough for me, then this film will have added heart in our sympathy for the guy. It makes the film so much better. That's one of the most important things for me as to wether I'm gonna like this film or not.
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:43 am

havocSchultz wrote:I actually really enjoyed it - for the most part...

I'll try to actually go into some detail tomorrow - but save for some major complaints with the ending - it was enjoyable.

I'd give it an 8...if that's the poll I had put up - otherwise - it's probably too early to choose which (if any) it might be better than...

But more on all that tomorrow...




Adam Balm wrote: Devin Faraci's reaction:

Now, two decades and two sequels later, John McClane has become just another superhuman action star, engaged in stunts and feats that stretch incredulity, demolish disbelief and betray the basic concept of the series. In previous installments we’ve seen a John McClane who had real personal issues and problems; in Live Free or Die Hard John McClane’s biggest character flaw is that he’s too protective of his now-grown up daughter. The man who once tied a fire hose around his waist and made a terrifying jump off a roof and barely believes he survived leaps forty feet off the wing of a crashing Harrier jet, lands hard on an upended piece of an expressway and slides down it as the fireball of the exploding jet chases him. This John McClane gets up, dusts himself off and immediately sees the bad guys he lost fifteen minutes earlier. This isn’t isn’t Die Hard 4, it’s Bald Terminator 4.


http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=reviews&id=10860


Okay...I just wanna preface this by saying this guy sound slike a fucking cuntrag...

Not Balm, this Faraci character...

Yes, I understand the first one wasn't nearly as over-the-top and what-not as this one - but has this dude seen the double bill: Die Harder With a Vengeance!?!?!?

This one is much more in tone as a sequel to those two - the the first one.
Which may sound like a bad thing - but bear with me here...

And I'll try to small-size any spoilers...
But I'm not making any promises...

Die Hard is the greatest action movie I've ever seen...
It might not be the greatest action movie of all time - because I haven't seen every single action movie ever made - but, regardless - If I had seen every action film ever made - I am confident in saying that Die Hard would still stand a good chance of topping that list.

I am also from the school that enjoys Harder moreso than Vengeance...

But i was around the perfect age for Harder.
10-11 years old - already in love with Die Hard - and I was able to rent it as soon as it hit the shelves - and I looooooved it...

Not nearly as much as the first - but as a really cool and fun action film.
Like I said - the only thing it seemed to be missing at that point was some brief random boob shot.

The 1st one had it - and so did damn near any and every other action film from the 80's...

It's like now - all action films have to have some scantilly clad lady doing her sexy thing - BAH!

Our action films used to have boobs just for the sake of having boobs!

But, like I said, other than the lack of boobs (and too much male ass thank you very much Mr. Sadler!) - for the age I was - Harder had it all...

So then, when Vengeance was coming out - I was so utterly fucking pumped for it - but I once again had to wait till rental - Small town - films come late - and don't play long - and I think the film was R - and I was still under age - and everybody in the small town knows when you're underage - so I couldn't catch it in the theatre...

That being said - I liked alot of it - but in my opionion - with the amount of times I've seen it (and it's been awhile since I've sat down and watched it) it's the weakest of the bunch.

So how does Live Free compare...
If I had to give an answer to my poll right now - and without having a chance to wathc Live Free a few more times - and revisit Vengeance - I'd rank them as:

Die Hard
Die Harder 2: Die Harder
Live Free or Die Hard
Die Hard With a Vengeance

But - there are some people who hate Harder and/or enjoy Vengeance more - so take it for what it's worth.

It is a real enjoyable action film though.
One of the better action films of the last few years probably - going by the old standard where action films are just fun, and big, and loud, and you can't help but enjoy it.

And for that reason alone - I hope it does well - so maybe we get more straight-ahead action films again.

Not just super heroes/event films - but good ole violence and mayhem.

The action and all the stunts actually turned out quite well.
There's not an over-reliance on fast-editing and thousands of angles in the action scenes so alot of the time - you can sit back and see what's happening (once again - reminding me of the yesteryears of action yore...)

And I didn't really notice much that would remind me that Wiseman directed the Underworld films...
It's nice that a bigger budget opened up his filter world to a bevy of colors...
I mean - blue, blue-grey, blue-titanium, and blue-smoke filters are all fine and dandy - but it was good to see him shoot it fairly straight-forward.

For the most part - all the performances were fine.
Bruce, well, we'll get more into Bruce in a moment...

Mac Dude, played the Mac Dude...which was fine...he plays himself well...sometimes he got to be a bit too whiney, jittery, panicky comic-reliefy - but that's what he was there to do - for the most part - as well as eventually maybe "become that guy"

Not the hero - but "that guy" that is there - and does what has to be done because he is "that guy" and he's there...

So he worked for me...

Olyphant?
I didn't mind him too much as a villain - he wasn't some hardcore badass - but his motivations were fine. When I discuss the ending a little later - I will get into my one real complaint - but in the end - the dude's some super computer genius hacker - who turns terrorist kinda...so for him to play the part as some ruthless, blood-thirsty "bad-guy" wouldn't have worked...

His "romance" with Maggie Q is mostly just a throw-away though...
They share a quick kiss/embrace at one point - and then when she is later departed from us by Bdub - it's supposed to make "things personal" with Olyphant. It does - kinda - but for it to have worked - the ending would have had to have been different/better - which I already told you I'd get into...

Kevin Smith plays Kevin Smith...mostly...
He has a couple of scenes - which have some funny parts - and one Star Wars joke that just didn't seem to work - which goes to show that acotrs shouldn't write their own material...

And Mary Elizabeth Winstead is cute as Lucy Mc(gunshot)Clane.
She plays her as touch and feisty - so tough and feisty in fact that Olyphant - after barely knowing her - says something along the lines of: "Yeah, she's his daughter alright..."

But her (kinda) forced romance at one point with Mac Dude seemed kinda tacked on...

I mean - I can see him falling for her - cause he's some computer nerd - and she's pretty hot - with a tight ass - but her dad would probably shove an umbrella up your ass an open it if you even look at her sideways - or am i thinking of somebody else...?

But with her being the Spawn of McClane - I don't think she'd fall into that - "Ohhh...we're gonna die...I will now always love you...ummm...what was your name again...?" territory...

But it's brief and not too important.

Which brings me to cliches...
Yes, this film is strife with them...did I use "strife" properly there...?
Is "strife" a word...
Oh well - but the thing is - cliches are a staple of almost every film...
In some form or another...
Either you're constantly using them - as a tool to advance your film - or your using them so as to deconstruct them and then eventually create your own cliches in the process...

The latter of which the first film did...

But the other Die Hards have always used cliches - what usually set them apart from the plethora of other films using them - is that they did it well - and they made it look good - like Will Smith and sunglasses...

Anybody (except the poor fortunate souls to be blessed without ears and/or noses) can wear sunglasses...

But can just anybody wear sunglasses like Will Smith can where sunglasses...

Awww hell no...

But, does John Mc(gunshot)Clane still make the bad guys rue the day they decided to attempt their pissing contest...?

But of course...

Yes, McClane is a little more watered down...
But he's also older, lonlier, and more broken down than before...

He's not a chain-smoking alcoholic anymore...
I believe he's past that point...
He's at the point where he actually wants to maybe give a damn about something and be a father...

He looks better in this film than he did 12 years ago in Vengeance...
So he's cleaned up his act - he doesn't get into these big scuffles anymore...

After the first real moment of Die Hardness against McClane and Mac Dude - Mac Dude asks McClane if he's done this before...

McClane answers: "Yes...but it's been a loong time..."

But all that's for naught...cause it's too late...

Holly's gone...
Who the fuck knows where his son is at...

And his hot little daughter wants nothing to do with him...
And she insists that her last name is Gennaro - not Mc(gunshot)Clane...

And yes, he's cleaned up his language too...
Ah yes, the big "fuck" debate...

Don't get me wrong - I would love to hear some classic McClane fuck bombs peppered throughout the film...

But it's not some huge complaint that causes me to dislike the film really in any way...

He does get to say "jerk-off" a few times...so you got that...

And I hear that jerk-off is the new fuck anyways...

And, at a couple of points - where McClane is rolling around/dodging soem nasty-ass bullets he's mumbling and grumbling under his breath a bit - not as loud and over-the-top comicly like Pesci in Home Alone - but at some points - you can just hear some "fucking fuck ass fuck"...or something like being uttered...

The violence - is still fairly intense and hardcore - albeit with little blood.
There is even a cool scene near the end - a trademark Die Hard kill - that had half the audience turn away in disgust - and the other let out a squeal of glee...There's only a small amount of blood in that scene - but it still works - I won't say it's as great or cool as the machine-gun knee caps opf the first - but it's a similar cool kill scene like the icicle in the eye - and the death by jet engine scenes from the 2nd - and is done and edited better then the "slice the dude on the boat in half with this large cable" scene from Vengeance...

And there are some real true Mc(gunshot)Clane scenes scattered about.
His fight with Maggie Q.

She's some sweet-ass martial artist - and she fuck hands McClane his ass at first - but, finally - McClane says "fuck this kung-fu shit" (albeit, he doesn't actually say "fuck") and he just fucking attacks her.

He tackles her - heads butts her - cracks her one square in the face with his Mc(gunshot)Fist, and swings her around and tosses her into a wall.

This all ends up in a classic Die Hard elevator shaft scene.
But it's cause McClane drives a fucking truck or something straight into the shaft and it turns into a very precarious predicament.

I mean - the scene was cool - and shot well - you could usually make out what was happening - but Dude, it's called a fucking brake pedal - you could've eaisly slammed your foot down and arguably gotten better results out of the whole situation.

Which brings me to what some people might complain about.
Throughout the film - McClane keeps escaping death by these insane and crazy means...

But - I think is kinda works for where the character of McClane is...
Early on - when the fan starts getting hit by the shit - and McClane stands on the roof of his car in the middle of what appears to be a city-wide traffic jam...the "fuck me" look on his face says it all...
Up until that point - some dudes with expensive guns were trying to kill the Mac Dude...fine...whatever...McClane saves the kid - but he's still trying to drop him off - and go about his business...
He's done being the hero...

At one part he explains why nobody should ever want to be the hero...people are always trying to kill the hero...the hero gets divorced...family wants nothing to do with him...
And even though McClane never tries to be the hero...he just always ends up being "that guy".
"That guy" who is there...there's nobody else around to do anything...so "that guy's" gonna have to do it...

But in this situation - he figures that there is somebody else around that can do something - that there's lots of people around...

But when Bruce is on that car - with the aforementioned "fuck me" look on his face -he knows that this is probably gonna turn into a "that guy" situation...

And that's not just the basic theme of this movie...
That's the whole basic theme of these films...

McClane tries all this crazy-ass shit - because why the hell not...nobody else is gonna try it...you're gonna die if you don't - so if you try it - and still die - oh well - at least you tried...

I believe that by this point, McClane has done what poor old Dennis Franz warned him against in Harder - He's believing his own hype...not in a bad, arrogant way - but you can't really fault him for it.
Look what he's been through - and he's still kicking.

He's not really any worse off - except maybe emotionally and personally - but physically and what-not - he's still good to go.

So I think he knows he's pretty damn luck or something...that there must be a reason he keeps "finding" these situations...

And I think that McClane fully expects to die - each and every time he makes one of these attmepts - in all the films...
And somehow - he doesn't...

Which is why I think there's even more of the Mc(gunshot)Chuckle in this film...

A few times - after a big stunt/moment/should've killed him once again scene - McClane starts to chuckle - he lets out his laugh - like he's saying: "Are you fucking kidding me...? Honestly?!?! That shouldn't have worked...Fuck! My leg hurts..."
Or something like that...
That's why some of these "big things" and situations he gets himself into in this one - weren't a problem for me - like I said above - there's a good chance he's dead either way - so fuck it - go out with a bang and take as many of these muthafu(gunshots) with you as possible...

And that brings me to the ending - which is what I came here to talk about the most - a short/fairly brief moment in the film - that if changed/done better/extended a bit - could've easily elevated this film to sit just under the first one in terms of enjoyment...

So squint your eyes...we're gonna do that spoiler thing...

So, after the big fighter jet sequence - which turned out good - looked good - and McClane sliding down the collapsed concrete just out of the way of the the huge fireball/explosion was a classic Die Hard moment. Over-the-top or not - it's a Die Hard image...

I don't have a problem with that...
What I have a problem with - comes after.

So we get to the big stand-off - ending.

McClane gets shot and goes down - Olyphant goes and pulls him up - holds a gun to him - and does the whole "I'm holding a gun to the hero" thing.

Olyphant press the barrel of the gun against McClane's wounded shoulder - and says: "On your tombstone, we should write - Always at the wrong place, at the wrong time."

And then McClane grabs the gun - whilst it's still against his shoulder - and replies: "I was thinking more like Yippe kay ye muthafu(gunshot)!"

And McClane ends up causing/forcing Olyphant to pull the trigger - which - in turn causes the gun to shoot through Mcclane's shoulder - and into Olyphant - which then ends up killing Olyphant - and the day is saved for many...rued by some...

So yes - I get some of the slight parallels to the 1st film - but the scene in the first one worked that way - because it just seemed like the only thing that could work...

And I'm not even that pissed that they cut the "cker" part of "muthafucker" with a gunshot - what I'm pissed about is that they didn't sell it.

So here's where the complaints come in.

This ended up being - or it was supposed to end up being - really personal for Olyphant and McClane.

McClane killed Maggie Q (who looked fucking hot in this film) - Olyphant's apparent-lover...

And Olyphant stole McClane's daughter out of an elevator...asshole...

I wanted to see these two duke it out a bit...like McClane kept threatening to do...

Stomp on his fucking neck man - honestly - it should've been a roll around down and dirty fight - not between two really well-trained fighters - just to desperate, motivated men, who ar at the end of their ropes and wits...

Then - after a good ass-kick dish out and receive back - Olyphant could've gotten a hold o fhis gun - and done the whole "I'm holding a gun to the hero" schtick...

But then, the big complaint - they still could've gone the whole "wrong place/wrong time" and "yippe kay (gunshot)" route - but when Olyphant says that McClane is just always in the wrong place at the wrong time - McClane needed to be a bit more defiant - don't stumble over the words and barely choke out the "Yippe kay muthafu(gunshot)" part!!!

Tell him: "I was thinking something more along the lines of YIPPE KAY YE MUTHAFU(GUNSHOT!!!)!!!"

Because these films are not about some poor schmuck who's always in the wrong place at the wrong time...

It's just about "that guy" who's in the right place, at the right time...because without "that guy" to be in those right places, at the right time - there would've been some much worse shit going down...

And the whole "Yippe kay ye muthafucker" line is McClane's way of saying - "Hey, I'm not in the wrong place at the wrong time! I'm in the right place! At the right time! So fuck you buddy! Over my dead body are walking out of here with a severe ass-kicking! And I don't fucking die! So good luck..."

That's what disappointed me the most - if they could've/would've built up the stand-off more - have Bruce and Olyphant go at it - and then actually sell the entire theme of the movie while Bruce purposely takes a bullet - would made it awesome...

And then - just to Olyphant fall down and die after said bullet...fuck that...he should've stumbled back - fallen down some open shaft or something - then proceeded to be impaled by some long steel rod...

Then the rod would explode...
That's a fucking Die Hard ending...


But, like I might've mentioned an hour or two ago when I started this - that whole ending thing was my biggest complaint/disappointment with the film.

I still didn't see this ending as lazy and lame and rushed as the Vengeance ending...because I could kinda see what they were trying to do here - I just don't agree with how they went about it...

Another thing I'll mention - is the need to reference/tie this into the previous (namely the first) film...

Okay, I understand the want/desire to do so - which is fine I guess...but if you're gonna do it - be creative about it - have some fun with it...

There's a scene where McClane and Mac Dude are introduced to an FBI agent who's going to transport them somewhere.
This FBI dude introduces himself as Agent Johnson.
I wonder if there's any relation...

But as soon as he says his name - McClane's all like: "Agent Johnson!?!?" Then he just kinda shakes his head...

Dude, it's been 20 years - all we get is an "Agent Johnson?!?!?!"

There's another scene where McClane and Mac Dude "borrow" a helicopter to visit Kevin Smith.

In the helicopter - we find out that Mac Dude is afraid of flying - McClane says that he used to be as well - but he took a few lessons...face your fear kinda thing...

Once again - so quick recommendation of Mac Dude maybe trying to make some fists with his toes...?

And, like I said - be creative with them...
When McClane and Mac Dude are getting shot at - and there's broken/shattered glass everywhere - they could;ve just thrown in a quick moment where Mac Dude gets a sissy cut on his hand or something from a small piece of glass...
Then McClane could've just looked at Mac's cut - then at all the glass on the floor...and rolled his eyes...

"Agent Johnson!?!?!?!"

Also - seeing as how these cyber-rists can pull any and all information on anybody they like - when they pulled up McClane's info - I would've liked to see one of Olyphant's minions reading up on McClane - and going: "Holy shit - this John McClane!?!?! Screw you guys! I'm going home..." Or something to that effect...

Alas...
I'm sure this is/was a mess to read...

But it took me a good couple of bowls to get through it...
All in all - it was a really good and fun action film - something we're lacking - and Bruce has always been enjoyable as McClane - fuck bombs and (gunshots) - doesn't matter - he can kiss my fucking dalmation anyday...

If you like any and/or all the Die Hards...
Check it out...
If you just like a fun action film...
Check it out...
If you just like John Mc(gunshot)Clane...
go check it out...


I hope some of this made sense...
I'll be happy to bullshit my way through any and all clarifications...

I thank you for your time...

Talk to you soon...

"AGENT JOHNSON?!?!?!?!"

havo(gunshot)...
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:25 pm

Holy crappa, paisan... this review, she must have a been very cathartic for a you, eh?
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:54 pm

19 Years in the making...
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Postby Pacino86845 on Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:57 pm

havocSchultz wrote: Okay...I just wanna preface this by saying this guy sound slike a fucking cuntrag...

Not Balm, this Faraci character...

Yes, I understand the first one wasn't nearly as over-the-top and what-not as this one - but has this dude seen the double bill: Die Harder With a Vengeance!?!?!?

This one is much more in tone as a sequel to those two - the the first one.
Which may sound like a bad thing - but bear with me here...

And I'll try to small-size any spoilers...
But I'm not making any promises...

Die Hard is the greatest action movie I've ever seen...
It might not be the greatest action movie of all time - because I haven't seen every single action movie ever made - but, regardless - If I had seen every action film ever made - I am confident in saying that Die Hard would still stand a good chance of topping that list.

I am also from the school that enjoys Harder moreso than Vengeance...

But i was around the perfect age for Harder.
10-11 years old - already in love with Die Hard - and I was able to rent it as soon as it hit the shelves - and I looooooved it...

Not nearly as much as the first - but as a really cool and fun action film.
Like I said - the only thing it seemed to be missing at that point was some brief random boob shot.

The 1st one had it - and so did damn near any and every other action film from the 80's...

It's like now - all action films have to have some scantilly clad lady doing her sexy thing - BAH!

Our action films used to have boobs just for the sake of having boobs!

But, like I said, other than the lack of boobs (and too much male ass thank you very much Mr. Sadler!) - for the age I was - Harder had it all...

So then, when Vengeance was coming out - I was so utterly fucking pumped for it - but I once again had to wait till rental - Small town - films come late - and don't play long - and I think the film was R - and I was still under age - and everybody in the small town knows when you're underage - so I couldn't catch it in the theatre...

That being said - I liked alot of it - but in my opionion - with the amount of times I've seen it (and it's been awhile since I've sat down and watched it) it's the weakest of the bunch.

So how does Live Free compare...
If I had to give an answer to my poll right now - and without having a chance to wathc Live Free a few more times - and revisit Vengeance - I'd rank them as:

Die Hard
Die Harder 2: Die Harder
Live Free or Die Hard
Die Hard With a Vengeance

But - there are some people who hate Harder and/or enjoy Vengeance more - so take it for what it's worth.

It is a real enjoyable action film though.
One of the better action films of the last few years probably - going by the old standard where action films are just fun, and big, and loud, and you can't help but enjoy it.

And for that reason alone - I hope it does well - so maybe we get more straight-ahead action films again.

Not just super heroes/event films - but good ole violence and mayhem.

The action and all the stunts actually turned out quite well.
There's not an over-reliance on fast-editing and thousands of angles in the action scenes so alot of the time - you can sit back and see what's happening (once again - reminding me of the yesteryears of action yore...)

And I didn't really notice much that would remind me that Wiseman directed the Underworld films...
It's nice that a bigger budget opened up his filter world to a bevy of colors...
I mean - blue, blue-grey, blue-titanium, and blue-smoke filters are all fine and dandy - but it was good to see him shoot it fairly straight-forward.

For the most part - all the performances were fine.
Bruce, well, we'll get more into Bruce in a moment...

Mac Dude, played the Mac Dude...which was fine...he plays himself well...sometimes he got to be a bit too whiney, jittery, panicky comic-reliefy - but that's what he was there to do - for the most part - as well as eventually maybe "become that guy"

Not the hero - but "that guy" that is there - and does what has to be done because he is "that guy" and he's there...

So he worked for me...

Olyphant?
I didn't mind him too much as a villain - he wasn't some hardcore badass - but his motivations were fine. When I discuss the ending a little later - I will get into my one real complaint - but in the end - the dude's some super computer genius hacker - who turns terrorist kinda...so for him to play the part as some ruthless, blood-thirsty "bad-guy" wouldn't have worked...

His "romance" with Maggie Q is mostly just a throw-away though...
They share a quick kiss/embrace at one point - and then when she is later departed from us by Bdub - it's supposed to make "things personal" with Olyphant. It does - kinda - but for it to have worked - the ending would have had to have been different/better - which I already told you I'd get into...

Kevin Smith plays Kevin Smith...mostly...
He has a couple of scenes - which have some funny parts - and one Star Wars joke that just didn't seem to work - which goes to show that acotrs shouldn't write their own material...

And Mary Elizabeth Winstead is cute as Lucy Mc(gunshot)Clane.
She plays her as touch and feisty - so tough and feisty in fact that Olyphant - after barely knowing her - says something along the lines of: "Yeah, she's his daughter alright..."

But her (kinda) forced romance at one point with Mac Dude seemed kinda tacked on...

I mean - I can see him falling for her - cause he's some computer nerd - and she's pretty hot - with a tight ass - but her dad would probably shove an umbrella up your ass an open it if you even look at her sideways - or am i thinking of somebody else...?

But with her being the Spawn of McClane - I don't think she'd fall into that - "Ohhh...we're gonna die...I will now always love you...ummm...what was your name again...?" territory...

But it's brief and not too important.

Which brings me to cliches...
Yes, this film is strife with them...did I use "strife" properly there...?
Is "strife" a word...
Oh well - but the thing is - cliches are a staple of almost every film...
In some form or another...
Either you're constantly using them - as a tool to advance your film - or your using them so as to deconstruct them and then eventually create your own cliches in the process...

The latter of which the first film did...

But the other Die Hards have always used cliches - what usually set them apart from the plethora of other films using them - is that they did it well - and they made it look good - like Will Smith and sunglasses...

Anybody (except the poor fortunate souls to be blessed without ears and/or noses) can wear sunglasses...

But can just anybody wear sunglasses like Will Smith can where sunglasses...

Awww hell no...

But, does John Mc(gunshot)Clane still make the bad guys rue the day they decided to attempt their pissing contest...?

But of course...

Yes, McClane is a little more watered down...
But he's also older, lonlier, and more broken down than before...

He's not a chain-smoking alcoholic anymore...
I believe he's past that point...
He's at the point where he actually wants to maybe give a damn about something and be a father...

He looks better in this film than he did 12 years ago in Vengeance...
So he's cleaned up his act - he doesn't get into these big scuffles anymore...

After the first real moment of Die Hardness against McClane and Mac Dude - Mac Dude asks McClane if he's done this before...

McClane answers: "Yes...but it's been a loong time..."

But all that's for naught...cause it's too late...

Holly's gone...
Who the fuck knows where his son is at...

And his hot little daughter wants nothing to do with him...
And she insists that her last name is Gennaro - not Mc(gunshot)Clane...

And yes, he's cleaned up his language too...
Ah yes, the big "fuck" debate...

Don't get me wrong - I would love to hear some classic McClane fuck bombs peppered throughout the film...

But it's not some huge complaint that causes me to dislike the film really in any way...

He does get to say "jerk-off" a few times...so you got that...

And I hear that jerk-off is the new fuck anyways...

And, at a couple of points - where McClane is rolling around/dodging soem nasty-ass bullets he's mumbling and grumbling under his breath a bit - not as loud and over-the-top comicly like Pesci in Home Alone - but at some points - you can just hear some "fucking fuck ass fuck"...or something like being uttered...

The violence - is still fairly intense and hardcore - albeit with little blood.
There is even a cool scene near the end - a trademark Die Hard kill - that had half the audience turn away in disgust - and the other let out a squeal of glee...There's only a small amount of blood in that scene - but it still works - I won't say it's as great or cool as the machine-gun knee caps opf the first - but it's a similar cool kill scene like the icicle in the eye - and the death by jet engine scenes from the 2nd - and is done and edited better then the "slice the dude on the boat in half with this large cable" scene from Vengeance...

And there are some real true Mc(gunshot)Clane scenes scattered about.
His fight with Maggie Q.

She's some sweet-ass martial artist - and she fuck hands McClane his ass at first - but, finally - McClane says "fuck this kung-fu shit" (albeit, he doesn't actually say "fuck") and he just fucking attacks her.

He tackles her - heads butts her - cracks her one square in the face with his Mc(gunshot)Fist, and swings her around and tosses her into a wall.

This all ends up in a classic Die Hard elevator shaft scene.
But it's cause McClane drives a fucking truck or something straight into the shaft and it turns into a very precarious predicament.

I mean - the scene was cool - and shot well - you could usually make out what was happening - but Dude, it's called a fucking brake pedal - you could've eaisly slammed your foot down and arguably gotten better results out of the whole situation.

Which brings me to what some people might complain about.
Throughout the film - McClane keeps escaping death by these insane and crazy means...

But - I think is kinda works for where the character of McClane is...
Early on - when the fan starts getting hit by the shit - and McClane stands on the roof of his car in the middle of what appears to be a city-wide traffic jam...the "fuck me" look on his face says it all...
Up until that point - some dudes with expensive guns were trying to kill the Mac Dude...fine...whatever...McClane saves the kid - but he's still trying to drop him off - and go about his business...
He's done being the hero...

At one part he explains why nobody should ever want to be the hero...people are always trying to kill the hero...the hero gets divorced...family wants nothing to do with him...
And even though McClane never tries to be the hero...he just always ends up being "that guy".
"That guy" who is there...there's nobody else around to do anything...so "that guy's" gonna have to do it...

But in this situation - he figures that there is somebody else around that can do something - that there's lots of people around...

But when Bruce is on that car - with the aforementioned "fuck me" look on his face -he knows that this is probably gonna turn into a "that guy" situation...

And that's not just the basic theme of this movie...
That's the whole basic theme of these films...

McClane tries all this crazy-ass shit - because why the hell not...nobody else is gonna try it...you're gonna die if you don't - so if you try it - and still die - oh well - at least you tried...

I believe that by this point, McClane has done what poor old Dennis Franz warned him against in Harder - He's believing his own hype...not in a bad, arrogant way - but you can't really fault him for it.
Look what he's been through - and he's still kicking.

He's not really any worse off - except maybe emotionally and personally - but physically and what-not - he's still good to go.

So I think he knows he's pretty damn luck or something...that there must be a reason he keeps "finding" these situations...

And I think that McClane fully expects to die - each and every time he makes one of these attmepts - in all the films...
And somehow - he doesn't...

Which is why I think there's even more of the Mc(gunshot)Chuckle in this film...

A few times - after a big stunt/moment/should've killed him once again scene - McClane starts to chuckle - he lets out his laugh - like he's saying: "Are you fucking kidding me...? Honestly?!?! That shouldn't have worked...Fuck! My leg hurts..."
Or something like that...
That's why some of these "big things" and situations he gets himself into in this one - weren't a problem for me - like I said above - there's a good chance he's dead either way - so fuck it - go out with a bang and take as many of these muthafu(gunshots) with you as possible...

And that brings me to the ending - which is what I came here to talk about the most - a short/fairly brief moment in the film - that if changed/done better/extended a bit - could've easily elevated this film to sit just under the first one in terms of enjoyment...

So squint your eyes...we're gonna do that spoiler thing...

So, after the big fighter jet sequence - which turned out good - looked good - and McClane sliding down the collapsed concrete just out of the way of the the huge fireball/explosion was a classic Die Hard moment. Over-the-top or not - it's a Die Hard image...

I don't have a problem with that...
What I have a problem with - comes after.

So we get to the big stand-off - ending.

McClane gets shot and goes down - Olyphant goes and pulls him up - holds a gun to him - and does the whole "I'm holding a gun to the hero" thing.

Olyphant press the barrel of the gun against McClane's wounded shoulder - and says: "On your tombstone, we should write - Always at the wrong place, at the wrong time."

And then McClane grabs the gun - whilst it's still against his shoulder - and replies: "I was thinking more like Yippe kay ye muthafu(gunshot)!"

And McClane ends up causing/forcing Olyphant to pull the trigger - which - in turn causes the gun to shoot through Mcclane's shoulder - and into Olyphant - which then ends up killing Olyphant - and the day is saved for many...rued by some...

So yes - I get some of the slight parallels to the 1st film - but the scene in the first one worked that way - because it just seemed like the only thing that could work...

And I'm not even that pissed that they cut the "cker" part of "muthafucker" with a gunshot - what I'm pissed about is that they didn't sell it.

So here's where the complaints come in.

This ended up being - or it was supposed to end up being - really personal for Olyphant and McClane.

McClane killed Maggie Q (who looked fucking hot in this film) - Olyphant's apparent-lover...

And Olyphant stole McClane's daughter out of an elevator...asshole...

I wanted to see these two duke it out a bit...like McClane kept threatening to do...

Stomp on his fucking neck man - honestly - it should've been a roll around down and dirty fight - not between two really well-trained fighters - just to desperate, motivated men, who ar at the end of their ropes and wits...

Then - after a good ass-kick dish out and receive back - Olyphant could've gotten a hold o fhis gun - and done the whole "I'm holding a gun to the hero" schtick...

But then, the big complaint - they still could've gone the whole "wrong place/wrong time" and "yippe kay (gunshot)" route - but when Olyphant says that McClane is just always in the wrong place at the wrong time - McClane needed to be a bit more defiant - don't stumble over the words and barely choke out the "Yippe kay muthafu(gunshot)" part!!!

Tell him: "I was thinking something more along the lines of YIPPE KAY YE MUTHAFU(GUNSHOT!!!)!!!"

Because these films are not about some poor schmuck who's always in the wrong place at the wrong time...

It's just about "that guy" who's in the right place, at the right time...because without "that guy" to be in those right places, at the right time - there would've been some much worse shit going down...

And the whole "Yippe kay ye muthafucker" line is McClane's way of saying - "Hey, I'm not in the wrong place at the wrong time! I'm in the right place! At the right time! So fuck you buddy! Over my dead body are walking out of here with a severe ass-kicking! And I don't fucking die! So good luck..."

That's what disappointed me the most - if they could've/would've built up the stand-off more - have Bruce and Olyphant go at it - and then actually sell the entire theme of the movie while Bruce purposely takes a bullet - would made it awesome...

And then - just to Olyphant fall down and die after said bullet...fuck that...he should've stumbled back - fallen down some open shaft or something - then proceeded to be impaled by some long steel rod...

Then the rod would explode...
That's a fucking Die Hard ending...


But, like I might've mentioned an hour or two ago when I started this - that whole ending thing was my biggest complaint/disappointment with the film.

I still didn't see this ending as lazy and lame and rushed as the Vengeance ending...because I could kinda see what they were trying to do here - I just don't agree with how they went about it...

Another thing I'll mention - is the need to reference/tie this into the previous (namely the first) film...

Okay, I understand the want/desire to do so - which is fine I guess...but if you're gonna do it - be creative about it - have some fun with it...

There's a scene where McClane and Mac Dude are introduced to an FBI agent who's going to transport them somewhere.
This FBI dude introduces himself as Agent Johnson.
I wonder if there's any relation...

But as soon as he says his name - McClane's all like: "Agent Johnson!?!?" Then he just kinda shakes his head...

Dude, it's been 20 years - all we get is an "Agent Johnson?!?!?!"

There's another scene where McClane and Mac Dude "borrow" a helicopter to visit Kevin Smith.

In the helicopter - we find out that Mac Dude is afraid of flying - McClane says that he used to be as well - but he took a few lessons...face your fear kinda thing...

Once again - so quick recommendation of Mac Dude maybe trying to make some fists with his toes...?

And, like I said - be creative with them...
When McClane and Mac Dude are getting shot at - and there's broken/shattered glass everywhere - they could;ve just thrown in a quick moment where Mac Dude gets a sissy cut on his hand or something from a small piece of glass...
Then McClane could've just looked at Mac's cut - then at all the glass on the floor...and rolled his eyes...

"Agent Johnson!?!?!?!"

Also - seeing as how these cyber-rists can pull any and all information on anybody they like - when they pulled up McClane's info - I would've liked to see one of Olyphant's minions reading up on McClane - and going: "Holy shit - this John McClane!?!?! Screw you guys! I'm going home..." Or something to that effect...

Alas...
I'm sure this is/was a mess to read...

But it took me a good couple of bowls to get through it...
All in all - it was a really good and fun action film - something we're lacking - and Bruce has always been enjoyable as McClane - fuck bombs and (gunshots) - doesn't matter - he can kiss my fucking dalmation anyday...

If you like any and/or all the Die Hards...
Check it out...
If you just like a fun action film...
Check it out...
If you just like John Mc(gunshot)Clane...
go check it out...


I hope some of this made sense...
I'll be happy to bullshit my way through any and all clarifications...

I thank you for your time...

Talk to you soon...

"AGENT JOHNSON?!?!?!?!"

havo(gunshot)...


It's a great review, havoc! Thanks for taking the time to write it!
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:07 pm

Thanks...

To sum it up for those still reading - out of the "Big" movies I've seen this summer - (Spidey 3 and Pirates 3 and now this) - Live Free was probably the most enjoyable and the most satisfying...
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:16 pm

What I said about McClane's character, Havoc. Does the film go into with a lot of attention? Like, the way DH3 did with his seperation from Holly? Do we get a sense of sadness and sympathy for this guy?

Good review too, dude. Nice to see all specific points that matter talked about with detail instead of just covering over it generally. Also, what about the White House/whatever blowing up as in the trailer? Is this in the film or what?

How does Bruce's performance compare to the others? I thought that his acting in the third was the best work that he did in these movies.
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:30 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:It seems that the kick ass action is there in this film. Personally what else I want from this film is a cool McClane character.

SPOILERS.




It is said that he is finally divorced from Holly and his daughter isn't talking to him. I want to see this gone into with a bit more exploration. Like DH3 did with this. I'm gutted and upset for good ol' boy McClane that he isn't rewarded for his world saving heroisms and that at the end of the day he is just a normal everyday man whose life hasn't worked out for him the way he wanted. Just a normal guy. I think if all of the above is detailed out enough for me, then this film will have added heart in our sympathy for the guy. It makes the film so much better. That's one of the most important things for me as to wether I'm gonna like this film or not.


He is divorced...
It's briefly mentioned...

And the film starts off with him spying on his daughter and some guy in a car...

He's over-protective and she doesn't seem to have any use for him...

They don't dwell on the fact too much - but like I mentioned in the review - he has a moment where he explains why nobody should ever want to be the hero...

Because their family lives fall apart - people keep trying to kill them - they never really get the recognition they deserve...

I think alot of it is more implied then full-on discussed...

The way McClane carried himself now - he's in really good shape - he looks good - he's cleaned up his act - but it's way too little - way too late...

And he's really trying hard now - but you can kinda see that if he had the chance to trade all of his accomplishments and heroics for the love and respect of his family - he would...

And then - of course - his daughter gets dragged into the mess - and we find out truly how they feel about each other...

Does that help...?

Is it too much information...
Not enough...?
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:36 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
Also, what about the White House/whatever blowing up as in the trailer? Is this in the film or what?


The Capitol Building I think it was...

The scene is in the film - but not exactly how you might think...

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:How does Bruce's performance compare to the others? I thought that his acting in the third was the best work that he did in these movies.


They're 2 fairly different performances...
In 3 - McClane was pretty much right at the bottom of the spiral...he was pretty much an alcoholic...he was run-down and broken and barely alive...

In this one he's still technically a run-down and broken man - but he's trying to pull himself up from the bottom - bringing himself back up slowly...

I think he did good - And he still threw in some small McClane nuances like the talking/complaining/sarcasm to himself that likes to make an appearance in the films...
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:36 pm

Great review, Havoc!

I'm in the "prefers-Vengeance-to-Harder" camp. In fact, until yesterday, I didn't realise there were any other camps! But Doc feels the same as you do.

Perhaps I should revisit Harder. I've only seen it a couple of times, and not in the last 10 years or so...

Anyhoo - sweet review dude
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:36 pm

Well the fact that it is only briefly mentioned that he's divorced. It's a bit dissapointing. I would like to have had his lonely situation gone into in the way that again, DH3 did. Made it more part of the story. Makes the film more personal and gives it more meaning, makes you care for the guy more. I dunno if it's gonna be delved into as much here for me. I dunno, useing Vengeance or even the other 2 films as a measuring stick, how much of his personal story is gone into here?

Or is it because his seperation from his family has been for so long in the past that it isn't so much something he talks about as he's sorta accepted a lot of this by now?

Also, what about that White House explosion? EDIT. Oh, just read your reply. Thought it was something like that. Was it a fake explosion then? Something that didn't happen? Sorta dissapointing. If you do explain this, don't give too much away, will ya?
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Postby The Todd on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:41 pm

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:I'm in the "prefers-Vengeance-to-Harder" camp.


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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:42 pm

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:Great review, Havoc!

I'm in the "prefers-Vengeance-to-Harder" camp. In fact, until yesterday, I didn't realise there were any other camps! But Doc feels the same as you do.

Perhaps I should revisit Harder. I've only seen it a couple of times, and not in the last 10 years or so...

Anyhoo - sweet review dude


Thnx...

Die Harder delivers on what it promises - complete non-stop, over-the-top insane violence and action and buffoonery...

Tied together with a John McClane bow...

The presense of Bruce as McClane increases any mere action film to higher class...

So that's why it worked for me...

Hell - McClane's appearance in Loaded Weapon 1 made that movie worthwhile...



Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Well the fact that it is only briefly mentioned that he's divorced. It's a bit dissapointing. I would like to have had his lonely situation gone into in the way that again, DH3 did. Made it more part of the story. Makes the film more personal and gives it more meaning, makes you care for the guy more. I dunno if it's gonna be delved into as much here for me. I dunno, useing Vengeance or even the other 2 films as a measuring stick, how much of his personal story is gone into here?

Or is it because his seperation from his family has been for so long in the past that it isn't so much something he talks about as he's sorta accepted a lot of this by now?

Also, what about that White House explosion?


I think he's come to terms with the Holly situation...

I think the fact it's not mentioned much - is because there's really nothing he can do about that side of things anymore...
It pains him - cause you know he always did - and will love her - cause I don't believe he speaks any ill will or anything about/towards her...

So I think he just wants to leave it alone...
I think that's one reason he's so adamant about trying to have a relationship with his daughter - she probably reminds him alot of her mother still - and he doesn't want to lose her too - I think that's the reason he's actually cleaned himself up a bit - he didn't realize it till it was too late with Holly - but he might still havre a chance with little Lucy...

I just wish I had a chance with little Lucy...
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Postby The Todd on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:44 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Well the fact that it is only briefly mentioned that he's divorced. It's a bit dissapointing. I would like to have had his lonely situation gone into in the way that again, DH3 did. Made it more part of the story. Makes the film more personal and gives it more meaning, makes you care for the guy more. I dunno if it's gonna be delved into as much here for me. I dunno, useing Vengeance or even the other 2 films as a measuring stick, how much of his personal story is gone into here?

Or is it because his seperation from his family has been for so long in the past that it isn't so much something he talks about as he's sorta accepted a lot of this by now?


Really, who cares? The Todd wants to see Bruce Willis kill bad guys, cuss, blow shit up, and be a joke cracking wise-ass even in the face of death. If Holly hadn't played an important role in the first movie, The Todd wouldn't care if they ever mentioned a family.....
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:46 pm

The Todd wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Well the fact that it is only briefly mentioned that he's divorced. It's a bit dissapointing. I would like to have had his lonely situation gone into in the way that again, DH3 did. Made it more part of the story. Makes the film more personal and gives it more meaning, makes you care for the guy more. I dunno if it's gonna be delved into as much here for me. I dunno, useing Vengeance or even the other 2 films as a measuring stick, how much of his personal story is gone into here?

Or is it because his seperation from his family has been for so long in the past that it isn't so much something he talks about as he's sorta accepted a lot of this by now?


Really, who cares? The Todd wants to see Bruce Willis kill bad guys, cuss, blow shit up, and be a joke cracking wise-ass even in the face of death. If Holly hadn't played an important role in the first movie, The Todd wouldn't care if they ever mentioned a family.....


There are some pretty fun kills which include blowing shit up...

With some random wise-cracks...
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Postby The Todd on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:48 pm

havocSchultz wrote:
The Todd wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Well the fact that it is only briefly mentioned that he's divorced. It's a bit dissapointing. I would like to have had his lonely situation gone into in the way that again, DH3 did. Made it more part of the story. Makes the film more personal and gives it more meaning, makes you care for the guy more. I dunno if it's gonna be delved into as much here for me. I dunno, useing Vengeance or even the other 2 films as a measuring stick, how much of his personal story is gone into here?

Or is it because his seperation from his family has been for so long in the past that it isn't so much something he talks about as he's sorta accepted a lot of this by now?


Really, who cares? The Todd wants to see Bruce Willis kill bad guys, cuss, blow shit up, and be a joke cracking wise-ass even in the face of death. If Holly hadn't played an important role in the first movie, The Todd wouldn't care if they ever mentioned a family.....


There are some pretty fun kills which include blowing shit up...

With some random wise-cracks...


Thanks! Then The Todd will check it out tonight. The fact that you listed it higher than Vengeance is a plus in my book.....
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:49 pm

The Todd wrote: The fact that you listed it higher than Vengeance is a plus in my book.....


This one feels more epic...
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:50 pm

The Todd wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Well the fact that it is only briefly mentioned that he's divorced. It's a bit dissapointing. I would like to have had his lonely situation gone into in the way that again, DH3 did. Made it more part of the story. Makes the film more personal and gives it more meaning, makes you care for the guy more. I dunno if it's gonna be delved into as much here for me. I dunno, useing Vengeance or even the other 2 films as a measuring stick, how much of his personal story is gone into here?

Or is it because his seperation from his family has been for so long in the past that it isn't so much something he talks about as he's sorta accepted a lot of this by now?


Really, who cares? The Todd wants to see Bruce Willis kill bad guys, cuss, blow shit up, and be a joke cracking wise-ass even in the face of death. If Holly hadn't played an important role in the first movie, The Todd wouldn't care if they ever mentioned a family.....


Who cares? I do. Because I'm a deep and serious person who wants more from my action films rather than just action. Now, you're making me cry and hurting me sensitive feelings with your post about not wanting that but only blood thirsty action. You're a bastard!

Oh and I edited my earlier post...


Also, what about that White House explosion? EDIT. Oh, just read your reply. Thought it was something like that. Was it a fake explosion then? Something that didn't happen? Sorta dissapointing. If you do explain this, don't give too much away, will ya?
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:52 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
The Todd wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Well the fact that it is only briefly mentioned that he's divorced. It's a bit dissapointing. I would like to have had his lonely situation gone into in the way that again, DH3 did. Made it more part of the story. Makes the film more personal and gives it more meaning, makes you care for the guy more. I dunno if it's gonna be delved into as much here for me. I dunno, useing Vengeance or even the other 2 films as a measuring stick, how much of his personal story is gone into here?

Or is it because his seperation from his family has been for so long in the past that it isn't so much something he talks about as he's sorta accepted a lot of this by now?


Really, who cares? The Todd wants to see Bruce Willis kill bad guys, cuss, blow shit up, and be a joke cracking wise-ass even in the face of death. If Holly hadn't played an important role in the first movie, The Todd wouldn't care if they ever mentioned a family.....


I do. Because I'm a deep and serious person who wants more from my action films rather than just action. Now, you're making me cry and hurting me sensitive feelings with your post about not wanting that but only blood thirsty action. You're a bastard!



Sensie...


Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Also, what about that White House explosion? EDIT. Oh, just read your reply. Thought it was something like that. Was it a fake explosion then? Something that didn't happen? Sorta dissapointing. If you do explain this, don't give too much away, will ya?


I was originally gonna go into detail and explain - but I figured that it might take away from it - it's a nice little moment - but it's not really a major point...
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:57 pm

What's the CGI like in the Jet Fighter scene? What about that car flip scene in the tunnel from the trailer? Is that CGI after all or real?

What about any other stunts/effects? Are there any other thrilling pyrotchnics and action moments or stunts in particular or any unlikeable CGI?
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:What's the CGI like in the Jet Fighter scene? What about that car flip scene in the tunnel from the trailer? Is that CGI after all or real?

What about any other stunts/effects? Are there any other thrilling pyrotchnics and action moments or stunts in particular or any unlikeable CGI?


Car flip was cgi I believe - it's not horrible - but it happens pretty quick and there's so much going on - it doesn't really distract...

The car/helicopter scene was pretty fucking cool...

And I liked the jet scene...
Alot of mass destruction is involved with it...

There's a cool elevator sequence...
And most of the action/stunt/shooting/fight scenes were done well...

It all looked cool...
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Postby The Todd on Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:02 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:What's the CGI like in the Jet Fighter scene? What about that car flip scene in the tunnel from the trailer? Is that CGI after all or real?

What about any other stunts/effects? Are there any other thrilling pyrotchnics and action moments or stunts in particular or any unlikeable CGI?


Before you ask, the Key Grip (Michael Anderson) had a ham sandwich on the 12th day of shooting. And the Key Makeup Artist in Baltimore, MD (Sandra Linn Koepper) wears lacy, frilly panties.
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:03 pm

The Todd wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:What's the CGI like in the Jet Fighter scene? What about that car flip scene in the tunnel from the trailer? Is that CGI after all or real?

What about any other stunts/effects? Are there any other thrilling pyrotchnics and action moments or stunts in particular or any unlikeable CGI?


Before you ask, the Key Grip (Michael Anderson) had a ham sandwich on the 12th day of shooting. And the Key Makeup Artist in Baltimore, MD (Sandra Linn Koepper) wears lacy, frilly panties.


Actually, it's the other way around...

Sandra had the ham sandwich...
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:07 pm

The Todd wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:What's the CGI like in the Jet Fighter scene? What about that car flip scene in the tunnel from the trailer? Is that CGI after all or real?

What about any other stunts/effects? Are there any other thrilling pyrotchnics and action moments or stunts in particular or any unlikeable CGI?


Before you ask, the Key Grip (Michael Anderson) had a ham sandwich on the 12th day of shooting. And the Key Makeup Artist in Baltimore, MD (Sandra Linn Koepper) wears lacy, frilly panties.


Fark you T! For bloody well stealing the punchline of a joke post I was gonna make later.

I was gonna ask Havoc, what about that little square inch of metal flooring in the corner of that elevator with a hint of rust in it whilst McClane has a fight with Maggie Q. What was that like?

Thanks for spoiling it for me, Sodd!
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Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:08 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
The Todd wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:What's the CGI like in the Jet Fighter scene? What about that car flip scene in the tunnel from the trailer? Is that CGI after all or real?

What about any other stunts/effects? Are there any other thrilling pyrotchnics and action moments or stunts in particular or any unlikeable CGI?


Before you ask, the Key Grip (Michael Anderson) had a ham sandwich on the 12th day of shooting. And the Key Makeup Artist in Baltimore, MD (Sandra Linn Koepper) wears lacy, frilly panties.


Fark you T! For bloody well stealing the punchline of a joke post I was gonna make later.

I was gonna ask Havoc, what about that little square inch of metal flooring in the corner of that elevator with a hint of rust in it whilst McClane has a fight with Maggie Q. What was that like?



That little square inch of metal was cgi'd out and made to look like a circle...
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:09 pm

havocSchultz wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
The Todd wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:What's the CGI like in the Jet Fighter scene? What about that car flip scene in the tunnel from the trailer? Is that CGI after all or real?

What about any other stunts/effects? Are there any other thrilling pyrotchnics and action moments or stunts in particular or any unlikeable CGI?


Before you ask, the Key Grip (Michael Anderson) had a ham sandwich on the 12th day of shooting. And the Key Makeup Artist in Baltimore, MD (Sandra Linn Koepper) wears lacy, frilly panties.


Fark you T! For bloody well stealing the punchline of a joke post I was gonna make later.

I was gonna ask Havoc, what about that little square inch of metal flooring in the corner of that elevator with a hint of rust in it whilst McClane has a fight with Maggie Q. What was that like?



That little square inch of metal was cgi'd out and made to look like a circle...


Well then Fuck You and your shite review Havoc, I ain't seein' it!!
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:03 am

Whoa. Finally a Summer movie worth seeing. This really caught me off guard. I was half expecting to dislike the movie. And I was fully expecting to dislike Justin Long. And I was really not looking forward to another film from the director of Underworld.

But whoa. There are so many really awesome bits in this movie, I am still basking in the after glow several hours later. Maggie Q vs. Willis? Perfect. Crazy Hopping guy from District B13 vs. Willis? Hysterical. The characterization of McClane's daughter? Superb.

This movie really delivered so much HARDER than Spidey or Pirates. Mmmm, go see it!
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Postby Adam Balm on Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:06 am

burlivesleftnut wrote:This movie really delivered so much HARDER than Spidey or Pirates. Mmmm, go see it!


This seems to be echoing a lot of the sentiment that've been going around. From Deadline Hollywood Daily:

The studio's exit polls are through the roof for the over the top stunt-filled pic. "Only film that delivers on the hype this summer," is a popular response, and Fox insiders are calling these exit polls the best they've seen since Speed. "These exit polls indicate for the first time this summer that audiences are satisfied and not feeling ripped off," a Fox insider explained to me. The studio knows it won't break daily or weekend records, but could play for a long time. Even the film reviewers have gone ga-ga for the flying cars, huge fireballs, collapsing freeways, and other implausible stunts culminating when a car takes out a helicopter: RottenTomatoes.com is giving Live Free Or Die Hard an overwhelming "fresh" score of 77% from even the snooty critics from major media outlets.


http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/will-bruce-die-hard-or-get-ratatouilled/
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:15 am

One of the things that's hysterical about this movie is that it really is like a Car Snuff film. It's like everyone involved wanted to murder as many automobiles as possible for our entertainment. In fact my favorite fight in the movie ends with a giant exclamation point of a car murder.
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Postby Adam Balm on Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:34 am

burlivesleftnut wrote:One of the things that's hysterical about this movie is that it really is like a Car Snuff film. It's like everyone involved wanted to murder as many automobiles as possible for our entertainment. In fact my favorite fight in the movie ends with a giant exclamation point of a car murder.


Death Proof fans burn in envy.
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Postby RaulMonkey on Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:14 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
havocSchultz wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
The Todd wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:What's the CGI like in the Jet Fighter scene? What about that car flip scene in the tunnel from the trailer? Is that CGI after all or real?

What about any other stunts/effects? Are there any other thrilling pyrotchnics and action moments or stunts in particular or any unlikeable CGI?


Before you ask, the Key Grip (Michael Anderson) had a ham sandwich on the 12th day of shooting. And the Key Makeup Artist in Baltimore, MD (Sandra Linn Koepper) wears lacy, frilly panties.


Fark you T! For bloody well stealing the punchline of a joke post I was gonna make later.

I was gonna ask Havoc, what about that little square inch of metal flooring in the corner of that elevator with a hint of rust in it whilst McClane has a fight with Maggie Q. What was that like?



That little square inch of metal was cgi'd out and made to look like a circle...


Well then Fuck You and your shite review Havoc, I ain't seein' it!!


It's worth seeing, Kirk, but unless the UK gets a different cut, you're not going to be seeing the actual movie until DVD. I really liked what I saw--I can tell that Wiseman didn't shit the bed--but I feel like the true movie was blatantly obscured and softened. There are lots of obvious dubs and cutaways that made me disengage from the experience, sapping my excitement at seeing a new DIE HARD movie for the first time in twelve years--because I wasn't really seeing the movie. Plus Quint was right when he said they showed too much in the trailers: every single big action sequence was spoiled. They would have been so much more shocking, and therefore hardcore, if I wasn't sitting there waiting for each one five minutes before they happened.

For me, the jury is still out on the fourth installment of the DIE HARD series until the studio gives me a chance to actually see it. I haven't done that yet. I've seen an extended, spoileriffic, made-for-t.v. preview of it. What a ridiculous situation. To what I saw I can give no more than three out of five stars (or a six out of ten.) As for havoc's unique poll, I've checked "waiting till Die Hard in a Living Room..."
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:34 am

That's bullshit. The apartment gunfight wasn't spoiled. Nor was any of the Maggie Q fight. Yeah there was a lot revealed in the trailers that shouldn't have been, but what makes a Die Hard movie a Die Hard movie is putting McClane into impossible situations and see how it actually manages to make it out. If they spoil certain imagery, that's one thing, but they didn't spoil any of the set ups to the action, which is just as important.

And I didn't read about any of this brouhaha concerning the movie being rated PG13. In fact I didn't even now it was rated PG13 until Dino told me about an hour before I left to see the movie. Looking back, I can see where certain things got cut to soften the film for the ratings, and I only remember two times where there was bad over-dubbing. But really none of that matters, because the action and violence in this is JUST as intense as any of the other movies, but with less blood. The only real difference between this and parts 1 thgouth 3 is that this doesn't have "foul" language.
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Postby unikrunk on Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:36 am

burlivesleftnut wrote:That's bullshit. The apartment gunfight wasn't spoiled. Nor was any of the Maggie Q fight. Yeah there was a lot revealed in the trailers that shouldn't have been, but what makes a Die Hard movie a Die Hard movie is putting McClane into impossible situations and see how it actually manages to make it out. If they spoil certain imagery, that's one thing, but they didn't spoil any of the set ups to the action, which is just as important.

And I didn't read about any of this brouhaha concerning the movie being rated PG13. In fact I didn't even now it was rated PG13 until Dino told me about an hour before I left to see the movie. Looking back, I can see where certain things got cut to soften the film for the ratings, and I only remember two times where there was bad over-dubbing. But really none of that matters, because the action and violence in this is JUST as intense as any of the other movies, but with less blood. The only real difference between this and parts 1 thgouth 3 is that this doesn't have "foul" language.


Until...now.

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Postby burlivesleftnut on Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:44 am

Really? That's spoiling? Considering the Maggie Q fight was mentioned above, I don't think so. And just listing off scenes with no context or detailed information isn't spoiling.

Oh, and this is the REVIEW thread. SPOILING IS A-OK.
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Postby Lurker Johnson on Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:44 am

Shit. If anything, that 8 minutes (or however long the yahoo clip was) made me actually want to see a movie I would have otherwise written off.

Will I see it?

We'll see what Bittorrent has to offer. As far as my hard-earned shinola is concerned, waiting for the bastardization that is sure to be the Transformers movie, Michael Bay be damned.

The original Die Hard is still one of my favorite movies of all time. From what I've heard about this flick, it's a departure from everything that made the original so rad.

Yes, I said rad, as in, "I'm a child of the eighties," rad.

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Postby unikrunk on Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:50 am

burlivesleftnut wrote:Really? That's spoiling? Considering the Maggie Q fight was mentioned above, I don't think so. And just listing off scenes with no context or detailed information isn't spoiling.

Oh, and this is the REVIEW thread. SPOILING IS A-OK.



NAYSAYER


kidding, I was just poking you with a stick to see if you were stil alive over there... :wink:

Nothing could spoil a movie like this - even reading the fuckin' script
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:50 am

:'-(
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Postby havocSchultz on Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:54 am

I'll agree with burl...(whoa...why are those babies over there suddenly crying tears of blood...? weird...) the Maggie Q scene was one of my favorite...

But from the couple of other people who have chimed in here - at least go back and read my small text stuff about the ending and let me know what you think...

Parts of the ending were realy only my major concern with the film...and I'm just wondering if any one else was roughly on the same page or not...
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