Indiana Jones & The Entirely Satisfactory Conclusion!

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

Which is the greatest Indy sequel/prequel...so far

TOD
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46%
Last Crusade
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Total votes : 67

Indiana Jones & The Entirely Satisfactory Conclusion!

Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 3:29 am

SPLIT FROM THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL THREAD.......

Maui wrote:EARLY TRACKING: Despite early internet naysayers, INDIANA JONES should finish with a 5-day in the $162M-$172M range!


I find this equally understandable and irritating. Talking about our childhoods in terms of a monetary figure. Calling the film critic proof is not neccessarily a good thing as it could be a shit end to a fantastic series. I've been watching the Indy movies on TV over the last couple of weeks and they still hold alot of water and are very well edited (just making sure I'm not seeing with Rose tinted glasses). I watched Transformers the other day (the animated movie) and boy did the editing suck, the timing of the music was so off and some of the voice acting was awful but I suppose then that might not recoup.

I'm just worried that it seems that so long as the film recoups and makes a shit load of profit, it's a success.

That for me is rubbish, I would much rather see a polished product that treats it fans with respect than a second rate film which still manages to pull in the money.

Damn youm double edged sword.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Wed May 14, 2008 4:13 am

Well, for me it probably couldn't get worse than Crusade, which is the biggest case of rose-tinted-glasses I've ever seen. Now don't get me wrong, I love it, but mainly out of childhood fascination - out of all the three original movies it's clumsily plotted, flimsily put together and barely holds up on viewing now as so much of it has aged. Funnily enough the other two don't seem to have the same problem.

It's definitely the worst of the three - how people can put Temple of Doom down is completely beyond me. It's true to the series' pulp roots, has tons of character, shoots along at a rollicking pace, has fantastic bad guys and some of the most memorable action scenes in cinema history outside the first.

If anything the new one can only be better than the Last Crusade for me, so that's why I'm looking forward to it.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 4:17 am

I really liked Last Crusade :(
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Wed May 14, 2008 6:05 am

Then you should have absolutely nothing to worry about. :P
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Postby RogueScribner on Wed May 14, 2008 7:33 am

TLC had some shoddy VFX and it didn't really have any memorable action scenes, at least not in comparison to Raiders and ToD. It wasn't a bad movie, but I've never really loved it because it rehashes too much of Raiders thematically and structurally (in a lame attempt to apologize for ToD, I guess) and it sacrificed pulp adventure for laughs and family drama. If the new movie is more like the last one, I won't consider that a good thing.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 7:36 am

I find TLC the best of the lot. It's the most polished, as an interesting and endearing cast and some really big dynamic themes. All of the old jokes are quips are there but the addition of Sean C was inspired as he lent his own Bond association to the indie series as well as being a pleasure to watch. The film goes from our first real look at Indie as a child and his life in the USA to Continental Europe and the Middle East. There's so much to enjoy in this film, as well is it not being quite so cheezy as the others (It's only slight, and that's IMO as rewatching TOD last week made me wonder how much I would enjoy TLC. )

I take it as a good thing if the new one is similar to this (which is on the TV right now... mmmm HD Indie in Cinescope..... :o)
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Postby Zarles on Wed May 14, 2008 7:39 am

TLC is an enjoyable failure.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 7:43 am

Zarles wrote:TLC is an enjoyable failure.


Explain or get out of my house btch! :)
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Postby Zarles on Wed May 14, 2008 7:49 am

It's TOO polished. Indy's always standing just so in his perfect little uniform, the villains are practically non-existent ("oh, give us the book or we'll let you escape again, and this time we mean it!"), and above all, it's just silly. There are moments that are enjoyable sprinkled throughout, but overall, it's kind of a mess. It's like a covers album or something.

Raiders and Temple kick the ass out of it each and every time for me. That good enough, btch?
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 7:51 am

Zarles wrote:TLC is an enjoyable failure.

That's wht my Ex said in the morning about me.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 7:56 am

Zarles wrote:It's TOO polished. Indy's always standing just so in his perfect little uniform, the villains are practically non-existent ("oh, give us the book or we'll let you escape again, and this time we mean it!"), and above all, it's just silly. There are moments that are enjoyable sprinkled throughout, but overall, it's kind of a mess. It's like a covers album or something.

Raiders and Temple kick the ass out of it each and every time for me. That good enough, btch?


Ka-Li-Maaaaaa

I didn't like ToD at all. I just didn't find it rivetting enough, plus it didn't feel like Indy 'found' his adventure, he was just plonked into it and told what to do.
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Postby RogueScribner on Wed May 14, 2008 8:06 am

ToD provided Indy with his only real hero moment in the series.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 8:06 am

MonkeyM666 wrote:I find TLC the best of the lot. It's the most polished, as an interesting and endearing cast and some really big dynamic themes. All of the old jokes are quips are there but the addition of Sean C was inspired as he lent his own Bond association to the indie series as well as being a pleasure to watch. The film goes from our first real look at Indie as a child and his life in the USA to Continental Europe and the Middle East. There's so much to enjoy in this film, as well is it not being quite so cheezy as the others (It's only slight, and that's IMO as rewatching TOD last week made me wonder how much I would enjoy TLC. )

I take it as a good thing if the new one is similar to this (which is on the TV right now... mmmm HD Indie in Cinescope..... :o)


Just reposting this as I edited it on you Rogue.

Too polished?!?! BA! It's a well made Hollywood film from the late 80's, it's not too polished.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 8:10 am

papalazeru wrote:
Zarles wrote:It's TOO polished. Indy's always standing just so in his perfect little uniform, the villains are practically non-existent ("oh, give us the book or we'll let you escape again, and this time we mean it!"), and above all, it's just silly. There are moments that are enjoyable sprinkled throughout, but overall, it's kind of a mess. It's like a covers album or something.

Raiders and Temple kick the ass out of it each and every time for me. That good enough, btch?


Ka-Li-Maaaaaa

I didn't like ToD at all. I just didn't find it rivetting enough, plus it didn't feel like Indy 'found' his adventure, he was just plonked into it and told what to do.



Thank you.... in TLC Indie seeks out danger and adventure because of/then with the aide of his father. Indie goes up against heaps of baddies it's just that he's 'Indiana Jones' in the final film not a developing character like in the other films. TOD is my least favorite Indie film as I find it flat and kinda uninteresting. I mean the day was saved by the British Military who just happened to be hanging out in that remote part of India :roll:

In all honesty Rogue I do agree with a lot of what you said above but I would change the film your talking about to TOD. :D Also they don't kill a flock of seagulls and a Nazi at the same time in any of the other Indies :p

EDIT:

RogueScribner wrote:ToD provided Indy with his only real hero moment in the series.


pleaseexplain...
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Postby tapehead on Wed May 14, 2008 8:10 am

Good points made on all sides - somehow I never find the arguments over the various 'Indys' tedious in the same way that say similar discussions about the Star Wars movies can be. I'm going to watch each again before 'Crystal Skulls' comes out, so hopefully I might have something constructive to add.

On previous viewings I prefer TOD to TLC, although I love the young Indy stuff with River Phoenix in the last of the trilogy as much as anything in the series.

Apparently part of the reason Spielberg made TLC was to apologise to Lucas for Liberties taken with TOD.

MonkeyM666 wrote:I mean the day was saved by the British Military who just happened to be hanging out in that remote part of India :roll:


not really that far-fetched.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 8:18 am

A little... well I think so at least. Just in regards to the setup of the Temple in the beginning as being super remote but point taken Tape :). It was all established during the dinner I suppose...

Maybe I'm jaded because there are only ever three of those damn glowie stones. I WANTED TO SEE THE OTHER TWO DAMNIT! I WANTED THE ULTIMATE PERIL THAT I WAS KINDA PROMISED!!



<ahem>.... jaded


EDIT AGAIN: Also watching TLC again it feels like the scenes and extras have been better directed then the other films, but that could just be me in TLC love mode.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 8:33 am

I wanted to see all 5 stone united too in ToD.

Also, Even with the 3 stones - I never felt any jeapordy for the world unlike the other 2 films, which had an essence of being on a much larger scale with the whole, Indy travelling all over the shop.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 8:37 am

papalazeru wrote:I wanted to see all 5 stone united too in ToD


Yeah, it does leave the ending kinda unresolved... I mean someone could always steal it from the village again, and get some more kiddies (or maybe a machine or two), dig some more, etc. It's not that hard for the villains I know, especially the resourceful Indie villains. . . or the Nazis.

EDIT:

WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!! The Crystal Skull..... one of those glowing stones from TOD???? hummmm.....
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because she's a RED head, get it?

Postby so sorry on Wed May 14, 2008 8:42 am

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Hmmm, I hope this picture doesn't affect Lady Sheridan's review of IJ4 :lol:
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 8:43 am

MonkeyM666 wrote:
papalazeru wrote:I wanted to see all 5 stone united too in ToD


Yeah, it does leave the ending kinda unresolved... I mean someone could always steal it from the village again, and get some more kiddies (or maybe a machine or two), dig some more, etc. It's not that hard for the villains I know, especially the resourceful Indie villains. . . or the Nazis.

EDIT:

WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!! The Crystal Skull..... one of those glowing stones from TOD???? hummmm.....


The 4th stone. Maybe we have to wait until the 5th Indy film until the devil is released.

Why don't we have an Indy film where he discovers which God is the true god?

That would put his life in peril and leave enough for a thoroughly lovely story.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 8:47 am

papalazeru wrote:
MonkeyM666 wrote:
papalazeru wrote:I wanted to see all 5 stone united too in ToD


Yeah, it does leave the ending kinda unresolved... I mean someone could always steal it from the village again, and get some more kiddies (or maybe a machine or two), dig some more, etc. It's not that hard for the villains I know, especially the resourceful Indie villains. . . or the Nazis.

EDIT:

WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!! The Crystal Skull..... one of those glowing stones from TOD???? hummmm.....


The 4th stone. Maybe we have to wait until the 5th Indy film until the devil is released.

Why don't we have an Indy film where he discovers which God is the true god?

That would put his life in peril and leave enough for a thoroughly lovely story.


Isn't that what the 'His Dark Materials' films are about? The first one wasn't so good...


:-P
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 8:49 am

Hahaha! Getting a bit confused there aren't you pal?

Snap back to it.

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Postby Fried Gold on Wed May 14, 2008 9:02 am

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Postby so sorry on Wed May 14, 2008 9:05 am



Own it.

Had to buy an "official" INdy hat for a photoshoot for work, and it eventually 'found' its way into my closet...
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Postby RogueScribner on Wed May 14, 2008 9:07 am

MonkeyM666 wrote:
RogueScribner wrote:ToD provided Indy with his only real hero moment in the series.


pleaseexplain...



In Raiders Indy was sent to find the Ark and keep the Nazis from getting it. He didn't do it to play hero; he did it because it was an opportunity to do nab a big score. Sure, he saved Marion a few times and risked life and limb to complete his mission, but everything he did was for the good of himself, not anyone else.

In Crusade he went after the Grail grudgingly and only in an effort to save his father, who really didn't need saving anyway. Again, Indy ended up saving his father a few times and risked life and limb to nab the Grail from the Nazis, but he didn't do anything that wasn't for himself in some way.

But in Temple of Doom, Indy literally fell into the adventure. He risked life and limb to bring the Sankara stones back to the village and freed the slave children without any hope of reward. He did it because it was the right thing to do. Hero.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 9:15 am

Good points, but I wonder if you're looking at the films a little clinically. The Indie persona is all about the reluctant hero, sure in TOD he fell into the adventure and made a decision to help the villagers but that plot point is also a weakness in the story. Even though we're just glimpsing another one of Indies adventures in China I actually wanted to find out more about the situation he was previously in. I don't know, it just makes me a little uncomfortable wanting more from the past then I do from the present in a film.

Anyway that's all themes and motives. The stories arcs are what I'm pushing at here. Closure is also nice too.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 9:16 am

RogueScribner wrote:
MonkeyM666 wrote:
RogueScribner wrote:ToD provided Indy with his only real hero moment in the series.


pleaseexplain...



In Raiders Indy was sent to find the Ark and keep the Nazis from getting it. He didn't do it to play hero; he did it because it was an opportunity to do nab a big score. Sure, he saved Marion a few times and risked life and limb to complete his mission, but everything he did was for the good of himself, not anyone else.

In Crusade he went after the Grail grudgingly and only in an effort to save his father, who really didn't need saving anyway. Again, Indy ended up saving his father a few times and risked life and limb to nab the Grail from the Nazis, but he didn't do anything that wasn't for himself in some way.

But in Temple of Doom, Indy literally fell into the adventure. He risked life and limb to bring the Sankara stones back to the village and freed the slave children without any hope of reward. He did it because it was the right thing to do. Hero.


Adn yet if it was so for himself....

In ROTLA, why did he close his eyes if he was so selfish. Surely such a selfish man would have wanted to see what's inside the ark.

In TLC, He let the cup go. It was only when he realised that his father could that he could.

So, not really selfish at all, just self realisations.

Oh, and you don't think Indy went back and nabbed one of those Sanakara stones for himself later?

I bet you he did.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 9:18 am

Aside from our wonderful chat for a moment, I wonder what drinking from the Holy Grail does for Indie in the new movie.... hummm.

ok continue...
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 9:26 am

I thought it stopped working once the grail passed the seal?

Failling that, what would have happened if he had, not chosen poorly, not chosen wisely, but made a pretty damn good guess based on the evidence....would he have still turned old?

If Barbara Cartland drank it, would she turn so old she'd be reborn again?

What if you only splashed yoru face with the water?

so many questions.
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed May 14, 2008 9:27 am

Likely nothing as the power of the Grail doesn't extend past the seal of the grail temple.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 9:37 am

Fried Gold wrote:Likely nothing as the power of the Grail doesn't extend past the seal of the grail temple.


That's a bit shit then really isn't it.

It's a bit like saying I have the power of flight but I can only do it when no-one's watching....a bit like peeing in a urinal.

shoulda sold the cup on Ebay and asked for the prospective buyer to pick up the purchase.
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Off topic much?

Postby so sorry on Wed May 14, 2008 9:46 am

So, uh, how about that Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?

Looks pretty rad. :lol:
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 9:49 am

Looks great. Thanks for killing the conversation there.
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Indiana Jones and the thread of crazy exposition

Postby doglips on Wed May 14, 2008 9:50 am

so sorry wrote:So, uh, how about that Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?

Looks pretty rad. :lol:


Yeah, I might catch it on DVD.
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed May 14, 2008 9:50 am

papalazeru wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:Likely nothing as the power of the Grail doesn't extend past the seal of the grail temple.


That's a bit shit then really isn't it.

It's a bit like saying I have the power of flight but I can only do it when no-one's watching....a bit like peeing in a urinal.

shoulda sold the cup on Ebay and asked for the prospective buyer to pick up the purchase.

...well...yeah...but that's the whole point. You can have immortality, but you have to spend it in a cave with only Edward Fox to talk to.

Watching The Temple of Doom again the other day on TV, while it does have a lot of action and adventure and excitement (plus, as always, some of the best stunt work ever) the story quite weak. It also, for some reason, looks like an 80s film whereas the other two look very much like the were fillmed in the early 60s AND still look period pieces.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 9:57 am

Seconded.

And that Ebay Idea....Genius. You make a fortune on the muppets trying to take it.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Wed May 14, 2008 10:08 am

Fried Gold wrote:
papalazeru wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:Likely nothing as the power of the Grail doesn't extend past the seal of the grail temple.


That's a bit shit then really isn't it.

It's a bit like saying I have the power of flight but I can only do it when no-one's watching....a bit like peeing in a urinal.

shoulda sold the cup on Ebay and asked for the prospective buyer to pick up the purchase.

...well...yeah...but that's the whole point. You can have immortality, but you have to spend it in a cave with only Edward Fox to talk to.

Watching The Temple of Doom again the other day on TV, while it does have a lot of action and adventure and excitement (plus, as always, some of the best stunt work ever) the story quite weak. It also, for some reason, looks like an 80s film whereas the other two look very much like the were fillmed in the early 60s AND still look period pieces.


Meh, didn't you know the Thuggies invented red neon?

It's still better than TLC. I'll put it down to you guys being temporarily insane. It's quite interesting watching the points being batted backwards and forwards, though, just goes to show that they're all good movies. Just the first two are better by a country mile than the third. ;)
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed May 14, 2008 10:09 am

AtomicHyperbole wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:
papalazeru wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:Likely nothing as the power of the Grail doesn't extend past the seal of the grail temple.


That's a bit shit then really isn't it.

It's a bit like saying I have the power of flight but I can only do it when no-one's watching....a bit like peeing in a urinal.

shoulda sold the cup on Ebay and asked for the prospective buyer to pick up the purchase.

...well...yeah...but that's the whole point. You can have immortality, but you have to spend it in a cave with only Edward Fox to talk to.

Watching The Temple of Doom again the other day on TV, while it does have a lot of action and adventure and excitement (plus, as always, some of the best stunt work ever) the story quite weak. It also, for some reason, looks like an 80s film whereas the other two look very much like the were fillmed in the early 60s AND still look period pieces.


Meh, didn't you know the Thuggies invented red neon?

It's still better than TLC. I'll put it down to you guys being temporarily insane. It's quite interesting watching the points being batted backwards and forwards, though, just goes to show that they're all good movies. Just the first two are better by a country mile than the third. ;)

It's not better than The Last Crusade. I'll put that down you being a foo'.
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Postby doglips on Wed May 14, 2008 10:14 am

OK, I've put a new poll up, lets sort this discussion out with some good old voting.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 10:21 am

Cheers Doglips.

But we all know that AH is always wrong. Not because he may be right, which in this case he's not, but because it's AH.
Papa: The musical!

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So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Wed May 14, 2008 10:36 am

Anyone who thinks TLC is better than TOD has no right to be in a forum discussing movies.

This is a fact. I have a PhD in Facts from the University of Being Right.

Meanwhile, papa, the AH schtick is gettin' oooold. You gotta find some new material. ;) That's so last year.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 10:43 am

AtomicHyperbole wrote:Anyone who thinks TLC is better than TOD has no right to be in a forum discussing movies.

This is a fact. I have a PhD in Facts from the University of Being Right.

Meanwhile, papa, the AH schtick is gettin' oooold. You gotta find some new material. ;) That's so last year.


It's one of those things that never gets boring. It's like a fine wine that matures with age.

Unlike No more Heroes which is from the pick for the vingary vineyards from the Temple of Doom made by none other than AH.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed May 14, 2008 10:49 am

I'd just like to point out that Temple of Doom isn't a sequel therefore, until we see Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, The Last Crusade is the best sequel.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 10:54 am

I didn't knpw it wasn't a sequel as such but I'll join anything for a bit of AH battering.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 10:56 am

Fried Gold wrote:I'd just like to point out that Temple of Doom isn't a sequel therefore, until we see Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, The Last Crusade is the best sequel.


Is that because there's no Nazis right. Right??

I never read AH's posts, they always give me a nose bleed...
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed May 14, 2008 11:03 am

1935 - Temple of Doom
1936 - Raiders
1938 - Last Crusade
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 11:07 am

Fried Gold wrote:1935 - Temple of Doom
1936 - Raiders
1938 - Last Crusade


Goddam Spielberg and Lucas with the fucking prequels again.


Don't they ever learn?
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
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Postby darkjedijaina on Wed May 14, 2008 11:08 am

AtomicHyperbole wrote:Anyone who thinks TLC is better than TOD has no right to be in a forum discussing movies.

This is a fact. I have a PhD in Facts from the University of Being Right.

Meanwhile, papa, the AH schtick is gettin' oooold. You gotta find some new material. ;) That's so last year.


Hey.... I love TOD. It's my favorite.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed May 14, 2008 11:10 am

Yeah but you're a girl. Your opinion doesn't count. :wink:

What's next?

ET: the early years?
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Wed May 14, 2008 11:18 am

Fried Gold wrote:1935 - Temple of Doom
1936 - Raiders
1938 - Last Crusade



nice...

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