Indiana Jones & The Entirely Satisfactory Conclusion!

[Retardo_Montalban]

Films like Transformers usually have big opening weekends and make tons of money, but don't ever stand the test of time. After 6 months people usually make tons of fun of how embarrassing the movies are. The Last Crusade was made 19 years ago and is still loved by many. I think you should apologize for comparing it to Transformers. That is just mean.

[Fried Gold]

Atomic, the actual merits of each film isn't going to be decided on how many post you can make with volatile and insulting remarks, but on that snazzy little poll sitting on the top of this page. Maybe you might want to focus your posts into illuminating the positive qualities of Temple of Doom instead of trying to tell people that they're personal individual opinions are wrong, because right now The Last Crusade has shoved the Holy Grail all the way up The Temple of Doom's ass.

Lots of people can like an average film, otherwise shit like Transformer's wouldn't be popular. Popular means better? I think not.

I've already banged on about TOD's strong points earlier. Mebbe I'm currently the lone, vocal voice in the case of the defence... but I'm standing ground against ignorance here. Someone has to, for the sake of your wiltering tastes.

Remember...no hate, just debate...

How do you like them sankara stones, you TODler ho-bag.

Debate that, then go watch King Soloman's Mines.

[AtomicHyperbole]

Films like Transformers usually have big opening weekends and make tons of money, but don't ever stand the test of time. After 6 months people usually make tons of fun of how embarrassing the movies are. The Last Crusade was made 19 years ago and is still loved by many. I think you should apologize for comparing it to Transformers. That is just mean.

No, I think it's justified. You're assuming the 12 year old kids won't love that film in the future like many love Transformers The Move now.

If you want to argue popular = better, go ahead, but you know deep down it's a weak argument...

Was RTS as popular as either sequel? I reckon it should've been.

[AtomicHyperbole]

Atomic, the actual merits of each film isn't going to be decided on how many post you can make with volatile and insulting remarks, but on that snazzy little poll sitting on the top of this page. Maybe you might want to focus your posts into illuminating the positive qualities of Temple of Doom instead of trying to tell people that they're personal individual opinions are wrong, because right now The Last Crusade has shoved the Holy Grail all the way up The Temple of Doom's ass.

Lots of people can like an average film, otherwise shit like Transformer's wouldn't be popular. Popular means better? I think not.

I've already banged on about TOD's strong points earlier. Mebbe I'm currently the lone, vocal voice in the case of the defence... but I'm standing ground against ignorance here. Someone has to, for the sake of your wiltering tastes.

Remember...no hate, just debate...

How do you like them sankara stones, you TODler ho-bag.

Debate that, then go watch King Soloman's Mines.

Stop trying to romance my argument from under me.

[Retardo_Montalban]

I agree, but I made the point that after Daddy Jones was rescued, Indy and he could have simply went home and it wouldn't have mattered. The cup would still be safe. They didn't NEED to go after it. They did so under the false belief that the cup was in danger, but it never was.

In Raiders, the Ark weilded real power and eventually the Nazis would have found it, so there was a need to get there first.

What kind of adventure is based upon false assumptions that the world is in danger? The lame kind.

What if Hitler got the cup and used it to live for another 50 years of ethnic cleansing?

I know the circumstances in the 2 movies were different, as The Last Crusade had Indy more of an enabler of evil than an opposer. If Indy wasn't there the Nazis probably would have never reached the cup. I liked that part of the story though. To know that Indy is human and flawed and will sacrifice the world and put great power into the hands of evil, just for acknowledgement from his father.

[RogueScribner]

I agree, but I made the point that after Daddy Jones was rescued, Indy and he could have simply went home and it wouldn't have mattered. The cup would still be safe. They didn't NEED to go after it. They did so under the false belief that the cup was in danger, but it never was.

In Raiders, the Ark weilded real power and eventually the Nazis would have found it, so there was a need to get there first.

What kind of adventure is based upon false assumptions that the world is in danger? The lame kind.

What if Hitler got the cup and used it to live for another 50 years of ethnic cleansing?

I know the circumstances in the 2 movies were different, as The Last Crusade had Indy more of an enabler of evil than an opposer. If Indy wasn't there the Nazis probably would have never reached the cup. I liked that part of the story though. To know that Indy is human and flawed and will sacrifice the world and put great power into the hands of evil, just for acknowledgement from his father.

Wow, that really doesn't paint Indy in a good light does it? Unlike ToD where despite his shortcomings he actually did something good.

[papalazeru]

Films like Transformers usually have big opening weekends and make tons of money, but don't ever stand the test of time. After 6 months people usually make tons of fun of how embarrassing the movies are. The Last Crusade was made 19 years ago and is still loved by many. I think you should apologize for comparing it to Transformers. That is just mean.

No, I think it's justified. You're assuming the 12 year old kids won't love that film in the future like many love Transformers The Move now.

If you want to argue popular = better, go ahead, but you know deep down it's a weak argument...

Was RTS as popular as either sequel? I reckon it should've been.

Jewel of the Nile actually portrayed a better Indian villain and good guy, far more realistic and in line with Bollywood Villains. I liked it alot. It developed the characters and the story very well. Maybe a trilogy is in order.

[AtomicHyperbole]

I agree, but I made the point that after Daddy Jones was rescued, Indy and he could have simply went home and it wouldn't have mattered. The cup would still be safe. They didn't NEED to go after it. They did so under the false belief that the cup was in danger, but it never was.

In Raiders, the Ark weilded real power and eventually the Nazis would have found it, so there was a need to get there first.

What kind of adventure is based upon false assumptions that the world is in danger? The lame kind.

What if Hitler got the cup and used it to live for another 50 years of ethnic cleansing?

I know the circumstances in the 2 movies were different, as The Last Crusade had Indy more of an enabler of evil than an opposer. If Indy wasn't there the Nazis probably would have never reached the cup. I liked that part of the story though. To know that Indy is human and flawed and will sacrifice the world and put great power into the hands of evil, just for acknowledgement from his father.

He'd have to live in the cave. That's the price of eternal life, which the knight was paying.

And man, TLC Indy sucks!

[AtomicHyperbole]

Films like Transformers usually have big opening weekends and make tons of money, but don't ever stand the test of time. After 6 months people usually make tons of fun of how embarrassing the movies are. The Last Crusade was made 19 years ago and is still loved by many. I think you should apologize for comparing it to Transformers. That is just mean.

No, I think it's justified. You're assuming the 12 year old kids won't love that film in the future like many love Transformers The Move now.

If you want to argue popular = better, go ahead, but you know deep down it's a weak argument...

Was RTS as popular as either sequel? I reckon it should've been.

Jewel of the Nile actually portrayed a better Indian villain and good guy, far more realistic and in line with Bollywood Villains. I liked it alot. It developed the characters and the story very well. Maybe a trilogy is in order.

I LOVE JEWEL OF THE NILE. It gets so much hate. But it's got the hot coals scene AND that bit with the plane in the desert, the arabian characters have complexity and don't suffer from the same over-orientalism of the Indy series either. The ending is superb, with the guru guy walking out of the flames? The whole illusion being rendered pointless by a real miracle. Powerful stuff.

I think there was going to be a third but it didn't materialise?

I've got to watch both again soon. The first has some genius scenes - "would you like to meet my little mule?"

The more I think about Turner and Douglas, the more I wish for a more realistic portrayal of a relationship in the Indy sequels. In fact I'm starting to wonder if I'm defending the right film when I should be championing RTS over both...

[The Vicar]

Positives for Temple of Doom:
Um, nothing.

Fucking lazy cop-out. Try again.

I see accuracy disturbs you.....

[The Vicar]

Atomic, the actual merits of each film isn't going to be decided on how many post you can make with volatile and insulting remarks, but on that snazzy little poll sitting on the top of this page. Maybe you might want to focus your posts into illuminating the positive qualities of Temple of Doom instead of trying to tell people that they're personal individual opinions are wrong, because right now The Last Crusade has shoved the Holy Grail all the way up The Temple of Doom's ass.

Lots of people can like an average film, otherwise shit like Transformer's wouldn't be popular. Popular means better? I think not.

I've already banged on about TOD's strong points earlier. Mebbe I'm currently the lone, vocal voice in the case of the defence... but I'm standing ground against ignorance here. Someone has to, for the sake of your wiltering tastes.

Remember...no hate, just debate...

How do you like them sankara stones, you TODler ho-bag.

Debate that, then go watch King Soloman's Mines.

I'm afraid those days are in the rear view mirror.......

[Retardo_Montalban]

I agree, but I made the point that after Daddy Jones was rescued, Indy and he could have simply went home and it wouldn't have mattered. The cup would still be safe. They didn't NEED to go after it. They did so under the false belief that the cup was in danger, but it never was.

In Raiders, the Ark weilded real power and eventually the Nazis would have found it, so there was a need to get there first.

What kind of adventure is based upon false assumptions that the world is in danger? The lame kind.

What if Hitler got the cup and used it to live for another 50 years of ethnic cleansing?

I know the circumstances in the 2 movies were different, as The Last Crusade had Indy more of an enabler of evil than an opposer. If Indy wasn't there the Nazis probably would have never reached the cup. I liked that part of the story though. To know that Indy is human and flawed and will sacrifice the world and put great power into the hands of evil, just for acknowledgement from his father.

Wow, that really doesn't paint Indy in a good light does it? Unlike ToD where despite his shortcomings he actually did something good.

No, it really doesn't, but I would think Indy a tool if he didn't have some emotional baggage. Dude still thwarted the Evil Nazi plan while still saving the single life of his father despite previous human error.


Why does everyone assume that you have to live in the cave to reap the benefits of the holy grail?? It doesn't ever say anything like that. Indy's father was shot in the gut and then he was cured by the grail and right after that he walked out of the cave and the bullet wound was still gone. You could conceivably return to the grail over and over again and drink from it to heal any number of injury or diseases, thus having a longer more healthy life. Arthritis, Parkinsons, Cancer; gone. All the soldiers injured in battle could be healed instantly through a trip to the grail increasing the turn around for the Nazi Army. That is assuming that most peoples assumption about grail's limited effectiveness is true.

[Retardo_Montalban]

I'm afraid those days are in the rear view mirror.......

Vic, you are one calm, collected, sonofabitch. It's funny how you can summarize a whole encompassing idea into a single witty one liner.

[The Vicar]

I'm afraid those days are in the rear view mirror.......

Vic, you are one calm, collected, sonofabitch. It's funny how you can summarize a whole encompassing idea into a single witty one liner.

You are generous and wise.
And a snappy dresser.
But the laughter is truly hollow.

[Chairman Kaga]

HOW is the Ark worthless? It can decimate an entire army with Gods power! Jesus, that's DANGEROUS! It's worth shitloads more than a crappy cup that can only move and deliver immortality by a few meters and an old man who's sitting in a cave.

I take the position that it's worthless because only one person can wield it. Considering at the time there was no Israel and thus no High Priest, in the film's time period no one could wield it. It wasn't a lack of humility for God that did in the Nazi's, it was that none of them were the High Priest (let alone of the chosen people).

Historical and monetary value aside, The holy grail can cure the sick, heal mortal wounds and I don't think its power is only relegated to the cave it sits in or else it wouldn't really need a billion year old Knight to guard it.

The knight wasn't guarding it, he couldn't leave. He even says he has to drink from it daily to stay immortal.

[Peven]

[quote="papalazeru"]Judging by how cartoony ToD was, it should have been Alan Menkin.[/quote

cartoony??? you mean MORE cartoony than a guy riding on top of a sub across the ocean??? a sub that never submerges, quite conveniently. more cartoony than a guy being brutally beaten yet without a trace of any real swelling on his face? more cartoony than someone's face melting due to the power of God? and lets not forget it is never explained at all how Indy and Marion got off that Nazi controlled island either. look, if you don't like ToD, fine, to each their own, but the reasons given to criticize it can all be applied to Raiders just the same, so it isn't like there is some rule or principle that Raiders followed that ToD somehow broke.

why can't people just say, "i didn't like it just because it didn't do it for me", instead of making things out as "if i didn't like it that means it can't be good"?

[Chairman Kaga]

I thought the Sub did submerge?

[Retardo_Montalban]

Historical and monetary value aside, The holy grail can cure the sick, heal mortal wounds and I don't think its power is only relegated to the cave it sits in or else it wouldn't really need a billion year old Knight to guard it.

The knight wasn't guarding it, he couldn't leave. He even says he has to drink from it daily to stay immortal.

Shit, that is laaame. What kind of idiot would waste his life sitting in a cave drinking water? That makes no sense. I haven't seen the movie in a few years, but I'm watch it again friday. Even with a huge plot hole like that, I still really dug the shit out of that film.

[Peven]

I thought the Sub did submerge?

which is less cartoony how?

[Chairman Kaga]

I thought the Sub did submerge?

which is less cartoony how?

I didn't mean it was. You want cartoony you should see the production art in the Lucasfilms archive book of the cyborg Nazi. If I could w I would scan it.

[Peven]

I thought the Sub did submerge?

which is less cartoony how?

I didn't mean it was. You want cartoony you should see the production art in the Lucasfilms archive book of the cyborg Nazi. If I could w I would scan it.

cyborg Nazis?? cool beans. sounds like a great challenge for Indy, or Captain America, whoever happened to take the call..........

[Chairman Kaga]

I thought the Sub did submerge?

which is less cartoony how?

I didn't mean it was. You want cartoony you should see the production art in the Lucasfilms archive book of the cyborg Nazi. If I could w I would scan it.

cyborg Nazis?? cool beans. sounds like a great challenge for Indy, or Captain America, whoever happened to take the call..........

It's not labeled as such but I think it was an idea for the bland officer who's face implodes at the end. Or maybe for the SS guy after he burned his hand all up. Anyway he had a robotic arm.

[Peven]

see, i could buy that. i always looked at the Indy movies as being modern remakes of the pulp adventure flicks of the 40's/50's; outlandish and fun.

[RogueScribner]

TEMPLE OF DOOM is a different kind of film, going in a completely different direction. It’s a movie of opposites. Willie Scott is the opposite of Marion. The Thugee cult is a completely different baddie than the Nazis. The tone is at once much darker and much campier.

LAST CRUSADE is the most emotional film, without a doubt. It gets a little silly, but I loved it as a kid. I think it was smart making the central relationship in the third film a father/son relationship and not a romantic relationship. Up until CRYSTAL SKULL it felt the most removed from the original RAIDERS.

KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL is a fun movie, it is a good movie, it is Indiana Jones, but it feels more in spirit with LAST CRUSADE than RAIDERS despite the blatant nods and casting from the first film.

[Peven]

aaawww man, don't use Quint, you'll kill the credibility of the pro-ToD bunch........

[RogueScribner]

Okay, how about Moriarty:

[quote="Moriarty's Crystal Skull review"]
It’s an Indiana Jones film. And I like it.

I like it a lot more than my least favorite of the series, LAST CRUSADE, and I think a second viewing may help.

...

There are a few things that came close to pissing me off, like the “jokeâ€

[AtomicHyperbole]

I love Mori.

[AtomicHyperbole]

HOW is the Ark worthless? It can decimate an entire army with Gods power! Jesus, that's DANGEROUS! It's worth shitloads more than a crappy cup that can only move and deliver immortality by a few meters and an old man who's sitting in a cave.

I take the position that it's worthless because only one person can wield it. Considering at the time there was no Israel and thus no High Priest, in the film's time period no one could wield it. It wasn't a lack of humility for God that did in the Nazi's, it was that none of them were the High Priest (let alone of the chosen people).

Historical and monetary value aside, The holy grail can cure the sick, heal mortal wounds and I don't think its power is only relegated to the cave it sits in or else it wouldn't really need a billion year old Knight to guard it.

The knight wasn't guarding it, he couldn't leave. He even says he has to drink from it daily to stay immortal.

Wow, as Retardo says, that's a great way to undermine TLC. Thanks!

I can't see how you're arguing that the Ark isn't simply a far more dangerous, deadly threat to mankind than the Grail. I think you're arguing the toss, to be honest.

[Brit Pop]

TLC was on last night... and I have to say its the weakest of the three, it true - Raiders is the greatest film ever made... TOD is amazing... but it starts to suffer from PAS (Police Academy Syndrome) whereby the producers saw all the bits that got the biggest laughs and cheers in the first film, and repackaged them and put them in the next film... and the next film (hopefully this wont be observed in KOCS)

Best / Cheesiest / Funniest Bits.

Raiders.
Boulder chase, lots of tarantulas, lots of snakes, Indy grabs his Fedora from under a closing door, fight with Pat Roach, Marion in a basket, shoot the arab sword master after impressive sword display, Indy fights loads of guys on a moving truck, artefact despatches bay guys in supernatural way (see FG's avatar!)

Temple Of Doom.
Gong fight in club Obi Wan, lots of insects, lots of jungle creatures, Indy grabs his fedora from under a closing door, fight with Pat Roach, Willie gets sacrificed, don't shoot the two Indian sword masters after impressive sword display, Indy fights loads of Thuggi Cult dudes on moving mining car, artefact despatches bad guy in supernatural way (by proxy)

Last Crusade.

Circus train chase, lots of snakes, lots of rats, Indy loses his fedora but the wind returns it to him, fight with not Pat Roach, Brody gets snatched, Indy fights loads of germans on a moving tank, artefact despatches bad guy in supernatural way.

Section for Last Crusade cheesy moments.

fireplace stooges moment, motorbike jousting moment, any moment containing formerly serious characters Marcus Brody or Sallah, everything from when Indy and Henry get on the zeppelin... through when the crashing german fighter plane overtakes them in a tunnel... up to when Henry gets a flock of birds to crash the other plane, getting Hitlers autograph, the pen is mightier than the sword, Alexi Sayles awful turn as the Turkish Sultan ("Rolls Royce Phantom 2"), walking and swimming in a lake of petrol whilst holding a burning torch, "Got lost in his own museum you say"

Unfortunately Pat Roach took one Indy beating too many and is now dead, so he wont be making an appearance. Also the late great Denholm Elliot wont be Brodying for us.... Connery didn't want to come off the golf course so he's out (unless its the most closely guarded cameo in filmic history).

Is Sallah in this fillm? If not... why not!

[Al Shut]

Remember...no hate, just debate...

I'm afraid those days are in the rear view mirror.......

Sheesh you're so not getting this thread

obviously its purpose is to test the boundaries of douchery and annoyance one is allowed to contaminate a debate with


anyhow pages ago someone complained about the music in Crusade beeing boring and after rewatching I have to flat out disagree. Lots of excellent score.

[The Ginger Man]

Short Round moved back to the San Francisco/Bay Area with Indy. An orphan, he felt comfortable among the city's large Asian population. Finding Indy's normal life as a professor to be boring, Short Round began spending more time among people his age. Eventually, he met a girl and as all young boys do, he moved on with his life. However, he and Indy still communicate whenever Indy passes through Chinatown and reminisce about that time Dr. Jones totally had that dude's hand in his chest.

Where is the evidence supporting this?

You can't just take a child from the streets of China and 'move' them to America without going through legal paperwork loopholes.

Firstly, he would probably have to adopt Short Round which means that Short Round would have to register at an orphanage in China. I really odn't think Indy would both with his history of paperwork.

There's zero evidence supporting this. I was just pointing out the silliness of expecting detailed explinations of what happens in between films from a series that is episodic rather than a prolonged narrative.

Also, Indy lives in a world where gets to drink from the Holy Grail, totally had a dude's hand in his chest, and single-handidly beat back the 3rd Reich using nothing but a pistol and a whip. Adoption papers? He don't need no stinkin' adoption papers!

[AtomicHyperbole]

@Al - Excellent, but not memorable.

[Al Shut]

I'd say I would reckongnize a lot of it when i hear it without seeing the movie

Can't say the same about Temple of Doom

[magicmonkey]

Guys, tone it down. I deleted the post BTW AH.

[AtomicHyperbole]

List of mods who don't get it -

magicmonkey (it's an anchorman paraphrase, my friend)

I repeat, not memorable.

In fact, I find it really hard to believe if ANYONE finds TOD's music unmemorable, or worse than TLC's. That's frankly utterly ridiculous to my mind and just being contrarian for the sake of argument.

It's ridiculous to say otherwise, it's some of JW's best work.

[magicmonkey]

It was for the name calling rather than the "gedditing" of it. I agree that Temple of Doom is better, I once thought tLC was better, but things, like opinions changed.

[AtomicHyperbole]

Look again, YOU MOD THUGGEE!!! I edited cos I wasn't being clear.

Mods have smaller brains. It's science.

[papalazeru]

Temple of Doom's real ending

oh and....

Music to TLC, better constructed


So much for your lazy ass efforts AH.

lastly, just in case you're missing some,

Romancing the Stone

and who needs a vafue romantic theme tune when you have This

[AtomicHyperbole]

Romancing The Stone AND Jewel of the Nile are now officially better than both TLC and TOD.

[AtomicHyperbole]

Wow, I just listened to the TLC soundtrack and I've already forgotten it.

Billy Ocean rocks. Check out the music here. AWESOME. And EDDIE GRANT! 80's awesomeness.

[Peven]

you went off your meds again, didn't you AH

[AtomicHyperbole]

You just can't handle a mature relationship in your movies, Peven.

[Peven]

if you weren't so busy spazzing you would see that i am a ToD fan. then again, with all your nonsense posts cluttering up this thread, among others, it CAN be difficult to sort it out......

[papalazeru]

Hey , hey!

Let's put these petty squabbled behind us and agree on one thing,

When the going gets tough, the tough get Romancing the Stone and Jewel of the Nile box set.

[AtomicHyperbole]

if you weren't so busy spazzing you would see that i am a ToD fan. then again, with all your nonsense posts cluttering up this thread, among others, it CAN be difficult to sort it out......

I'm talking about RTS and JOTN, not Indy! Concentrate!

[AtomicHyperbole]

Hey , hey!

Let's put these petty squabbled behind us and agree on one thing,

When the going gets tough, the tough get Romancing the Stone and Jewel of the Nile box set.

And sharp white suits.

Man, there are some angry people in here. One hell of a morning has turned into a bitch of a day! Watching that Billy Ocean music video should sort them out, frankly.

[papalazeru]

Time for a Chill pill

That music should brighten up anyone's day to believe it's sunny outside.

[AtomicHyperbole]

Dig that bass. DIG IT.

[captainbrose]

Its disappointing to see this thread has been to love one movie and bash the other movie. I Indiana Jones. I love both movies, they both have completely different stories, different charms, different music, etc. They are two stories in the serial adventures of Indiana.

When I say I prefer Crusade, it doesnt mean I hate Temple and want to spend my time bashing it. It means if you asked me to watch one of them, probably 6 out of 10 times I would choose Crusade. I dont have to hate one to like the other.

[papalazeru]

Its disappointing to see this thread has been to love one movie and bash the other movie. I Indiana Jones. I love both movies, they both have completely different stories, different charms, different music, etc. They are two stories in the serial adventures of Indiana.

When I say I prefer Crusade, it doesnt mean I hate Temple and want to spend my time bashing it. It means if you asked me to watch one of them, probably 6 out of 10 times I would choose Crusade. I dont have to hate one to like the other.

Can't we all just....get along?

Hehe!