(Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

(Rating The) WATCHMEN!

10
3
6%
9
8
15%
8
11
21%
7
11
21%
6
11
21%
5
4
8%
4
0
No votes
3
0
No votes
2
1
2%
1
0
No votes
Waiting for the DVD/Blu-Ray Director's Cut
1
2%
If I wanted to see blue dongs, I'd watch Siberian pr0n!
2
4%
 
Total votes : 52

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Peven on Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:19 pm

you know, as i was reading through some reviews something occurred to me, and the more i think about it the more i suspect that this movie is going to be another "Dune". not saying that is all bad, signs are that it was made with a real respect for the source material and is technically well-made, a unique piece of film, but i do get the feeling it is going to be lucky to make its budget back because the plot, character development and subtext are too dense and complex for mainstream audiences to process and keep up with what is going on and why, and will end up being more of a cult fav of comic/sci-fi geeks in the long run than a "blockbuster"
Image

perversely contrarian since 2005
Peven
Is This Real Life?
 
Posts: 14826
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:45 am
Location: Group W bench

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nancy on Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:15 am

Thanks for the review MasterWhedon.
Nancy
TOMBOY BEANPOLE
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:52 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby BlueHawaiiSurfer on Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:05 pm

Peven wrote:you know, as i was reading through some reviews something occurred to me, and the more i think about it the more i suspect that this movie is going to be another "Dune". not saying that is all bad, signs are that it was made with a real respect for the source material and is technically well-made, a unique piece of film, but i do get the feeling it is going to be lucky to make its budget back because the plot, character development and subtext are too dense and complex for mainstream audiences to process and keep up with what is going on and why, and will end up being more of a cult fav of comic/sci-fi geeks in the long run than a "blockbuster"

Kind of like the books when they were originally released???
:mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
BlueHawaiiSurfer
TOMBOY BEANPOLE
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:40 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Peven on Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:58 pm

right
Image

perversely contrarian since 2005
Peven
Is This Real Life?
 
Posts: 14826
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:45 am
Location: Group W bench

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Al Shut on Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:10 am

I've had a fun time with the movie.

On it's own I think it works quite well, although it's a bit hard to judge that after erading the source a dozen times or so. The fighting action slow motion style almost didn't bother me at all (which I had feared after the trailers). The whole structure with all the elaborated, although already shortened, flashbacks felt a bit weird at times but that's somethinng that rarely bothers me. And we knew already that movie isn't the perfect medium for Watchmen. The use of songs was a bit hit or miss and some generated a chuckle from the audience (Hallejula!).

As an adaption I had several minor complaints, mostly stuff like changed lines, and one big Manhattan telling Laurie and Rorschach that his knowledge of future is disturbed, likely due to nuclear armaggedon and that he's working with Veidt to prevent it. Which, as Laurie imediately points out, makes no sense since he can't change the future. The whole puppet on a string aspect of Manhattan could have used some more emphasis But for the most part the movie worked without the things that were missing, some of witch I didn#t miss at all (everything involving the street corner), some of witch would have been nice but not necessary (cut parts from Rorschach and Ozymandis backstory)

Oh and graphic violence FTW, I mean WTF, I mean holy shit they've turned up the violence a lot. But I think most of it has it's pace, except maybe the alley fight with Dan and Laurie. That really could have been less brutal

7~8/10
Note to myself: Fix this image shit!
User avatar
Al Shut
THE LAUGHING ZONER
 
Posts: 6239
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:57 pm
Location: Oberhausen, Germany

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Pacino86845 on Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:59 am

Nice review Al, thanks for writing it up! The movie's at 64% on RT with 81 reviews so far...
User avatar
Pacino86845
EGYPTIAN LOVER
 
Posts: 14064
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:20 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:03 pm

Linkyloo.... from Big Questions thread....

MonkeyM666 wrote:Quantum superheroes: The science of Watchmen

ooohhh... coolness....
Image
User avatar
MonkeyM666
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 5406
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Australia

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby TheButcher on Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:53 am

I just got back from a screening held by my local comic shop.
The movie experience was fun. A theater full of people that actually know the comic.
This was one of the best movie experiences of my life.

I wonder what the reaction from "regular people" will be like.
The people that think this is just another Batman or X-men movie.
The people who are taking their 10 year old kids.
User avatar
TheButcher
ZONE NEWS DIRECTOR
 
Posts: 17417
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:02 am
Location: The Bureau of Sabotage

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Al Shut on Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:26 am

Oh yeah I forgot to mention my non Watchmen reading friend thought it was good/satisfactory too.

TheButcher wrote:I wonder what the reaction from "regular people" will be like.
The people that think this is just another Batman or X-men movie.
The people who are taking their 10 year old kids.


In 30 years a psychiatrist will show those kids some ink blots and they will have Watchmen flashbacks.
Note to myself: Fix this image shit!
User avatar
Al Shut
THE LAUGHING ZONER
 
Posts: 6239
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:57 pm
Location: Oberhausen, Germany

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DaleTremont on Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:39 am

Peven wrote:you know, as i was reading through some reviews something occurred to me, and the more i think about it the more i suspect that this movie is going to be another "Dune". not saying that is all bad, signs are that it was made with a real respect for the source material and is technically well-made, a unique piece of film, but i do get the feeling it is going to be lucky to make its budget back because the plot, character development and subtext are too dense and complex for mainstream audiences to process and keep up with what is going on and why, and will end up being more of a cult fav of comic/sci-fi geeks in the long run than a "blockbuster"


Very true. I just got back from a midnight showing. I've never been so hot and cold on a movie. At times I'd think it was brilliant and at times I'd think it was just plain silly. Toward the end I was leaning more toward the negative to be honest. There were some great scenes: the Comedian death scene, the flashbacks to the Minutemen, pretty much anything with Rorschach...but oftentimes the "emotional climaxes" came off as a bit trite, like when Laurie got all screamy after she found out about the Comedian being her dad. I was talking on the way home about the movie vs. the novel, and while I still think Alan Moore is a bit of a self-righteous douchebag, I have to conclude he kind of did have a point when he called this "unfilmable." Not untouchable. Because fuck that noise, if people put Shakespeare on screen they can should be able to put a graphic novel on screen as well without people flipping their wigs. But what makes Watchmen interesting (at least to my n0ob self) is all the backstory, the fact that it is so dense and so detailed. Naturally movies are necessarily more plot driven so when you take everything else away, sometimes you are just left with actors standing around in silly costumes. They can't convey with a couple lines of exposition what you can convey in a whole novel, obviously. I mean that's always the problem with adaptations but I think even more so in the case of Watchmen.

All that being said though it's still a worthwhile movie, albeit one that left me disappointed overall. While he orchestrated some nice shots I think sometimes it felt like Snyder was trying to be overly-serious with some of the more arty setups and the movie suddenly felt much less strained whenever someone was getting the shit kicked out of them. So maybe that's really more his territory.
Image
User avatar
DaleTremont
Loincloth Bronson
 
Posts: 3507
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:51 am
Location: Москва, bitches!

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby TheButcher on Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:44 am

Al Shut wrote:Oh yeah I forgot to mention my non Watchmen reading friend thought it was good/satisfactory too.

TheButcher wrote:I wonder what the reaction from "regular people" will be like.
The people that think this is just another Batman or X-men movie.
The people who are taking their 10 year old kids.


In 30 years a psychiatrist will show those kids some ink blots and they will have Watchmen flashbacks.

:lol:
User avatar
TheButcher
ZONE NEWS DIRECTOR
 
Posts: 17417
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:02 am
Location: The Bureau of Sabotage

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Al Shut on Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:21 am

DaleTremont wrote: At times I'd think it was brilliant and at times I'd think it was just plain silly. [...] oftentimes the "emotional climaxes" came off as a bit trite, like when Laurie got all screamy after she found out about the Comedian being her dad. I was talking on the way home about the movie vs. the novel, and while I still think Alan Moore is a bit of a self-righteous douchebag, I have to conclude he kind of did have a point when he called this "unfilmable." [...] what makes Watchmen interesting (at least to my n0ob self) is all the backstory, the fact that it is so dense and so detailed. Naturally movies are necessarily more plot driven so when you take everything else away, sometimes you are just left with actors standing around in silly costumes. They can't convey with a couple lines of exposition what you can convey in a whole novel, obviously. I mean that's always the problem with adaptations but I think even more so in the case of Watchmen.


Nite Owl suddenly exlaiming 'What happend to the American dream?' during the riot scene
comes to my mind.

The questin would e how much can you blame the movie for it? What are backstory, plot and details that just had no place in the movie and when leve the ommissins noticeable holes in the rest of the movie?
Note to myself: Fix this image shit!
User avatar
Al Shut
THE LAUGHING ZONER
 
Posts: 6239
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:57 pm
Location: Oberhausen, Germany

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby bastard_robo on Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:30 am

Im going to be brief with this because, much like THE DARK KNIGHT, I saw this at the midnight screening last night, and I didnt get home till 5 am, and had to be at work around 7 so Im running on about an hour and some change in sleep.

Movie was great.

No real quarrels, just some minor nit picks, but overall, a flat out great movie.

Im going to go pass out, I'll elaborate more tomorrow.
Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everyone is gonna die. Come watch TV
— Rick and Morty

Image
User avatar
bastard_robo
SCANK BARON
 
Posts: 4636
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:59 am
Location: Hello Kitty Adventure Island

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Pacino86845 on Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:34 am

The Road to Hell is Paved With Zack Snyder

I gave the film a 7 on the poll... I think normally I might've given it a 6, but I couldn't help throwing in that extra point because I think Zack Snyder tried his damnedest to adapt the unadaptable Watchmen in a way as to please the fans of the book, despite the deviations and changes. The end result, as many have been saying, is a mixed bag: visually splendid for the most part, but the performances range from the strong to the trite... the story and dialogue, at times rigidly aping the book, don't flow too well throughout the movie. Ozymandias was by far the weakest link, I think Malin Ackerman may be getting undue criticism. She comes across as sort of a shallow bitch, but the character Laurie is a bit of a bitch and where Malin may appear stiff at times due to lack of acting ability, it seems to fit the character rather well and doesn't at all detract from the experience. But I nearly cringed every time I saw the bastard love child of David Bowie and Andy Warhol that is Ozymandias... that character was made darker and more nefarious for no obvious reason than that it would make it easier for people who haven't read the book to guess the "villain" of the story.

Best performances fall with Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan. Although very well adapted, the former doesn't present a revelatory character per se... in a sense we've all become very familiar with the Rorschach type of character in other incarnations in and out of the comics world. The stoic Dr. Manhattan and his glorious blue dong were quite the success.

And yet Watchmen is the best adaptation of an Alan Moore comic to date. The film, despite its length, was paced fairly well and despite the minimal amount of action (which I think will kill this movie on holdover weekends at the boxoffice. I think it will premiere strong but I foresee a strong drop next weekend) there's enough going on that keeps you interested: this is perhaps Zack Snyder's greatest achievement in adapting the book, which you could pick up and put down whenever you feel like it, an aspect of the medium itself that Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons were very conscious of (or so they claim) when they produced the comics. I think a better film could've been made from Watchmen, but I don't think an adaptation of Watchmen would've ever become an "excellent" film. Still, Zack Snyder, one of my most reviled directors, has finally brought some maturity (or at least adopted from the source material in this case) to his filmmaking that this is the first Zack Snyder film I can actually say is GOOD. Zombies Ate My Remake and 300 were horrible horrible films but Don't Call Us Watchmen is pretty darned good... not great, and possibly disappointing to lots of people, but not bad at all. It honestly could've been much much worse.
User avatar
Pacino86845
EGYPTIAN LOVER
 
Posts: 14064
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:20 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby bastard_robo on Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:49 am

You know.. I never understand when people mention that this thing is/was UNFILMABLE... Just because Moore said so, it clearly didnt mean so.

The narrative of the book wasn't that off, and if you pay any attention at all, you know when a flashback is happening. There was nothing TOO otherworldly that's in the book and I honestly believe that all it took was someone to have enough brains to properly adapt the material.

People were saying the same thing about Beowulf, and I still firmly believe that a direct adaptation of the story can be filmed...
Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everyone is gonna die. Come watch TV
— Rick and Morty

Image
User avatar
bastard_robo
SCANK BARON
 
Posts: 4636
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:59 am
Location: Hello Kitty Adventure Island

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Ribbons on Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:17 am

Pacino86845 wrote:Zombies Ate My Remake


:shock:

Thanks a lot, now I'm gonna be having nightmares about giant ants
User avatar
Ribbons
SQUARE PEG
 
Posts: 14134
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:00 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:08 am

I'm going to get super flak for this, but I cringed during that scene when Silk Spectre I (Carla Gugino) was explaining why she felt bad that Blake died to Silk Spectre II (Malin Ackerman). That was some bad soap opera acting, right there. I also think there were enough fight scenes, but the tension and drama of any big action set pieces were ruined by long, drawn out, over exaggerated movements. Like Hitting some dude real hard and then stopping to strike a pose, or right before punching a dude's shin through his knee, there is a long wind-up and pause. The Comedian death scene looked like a cat burglar swinging an old man on some wires, through a window. That cat burglar (look at me keeping spoilers to a minimum) throws like a girl. I read somewhere, someone comparing a scene in this movie to that Oldboy super brawl. In Old boy, that crazy old dude went through that mob with pure grit and inertia. Something the fight scenes in this movie were lacking; zero inertia.

The music was confusing as hell. It wasn't anything specific to the era's they accompanied and one in particular is a little too synonymous with another movie for it to fit properly. The sound of silence? Really? I cannot listen to that song and not think of the Graduate. I sort of get All Along the Watchtower as a 'Nam tune, but it didn't play during any of the 'Nam scenes. 99 red balloons?

Jackie Earl Haley was awesome as Rorschach. He packaged and sold Rorschach in a defining way. I would have liked to see more sugar cubes though. Doc Manhattan was alright but I would have liked to see a little more of a character progression within the different time periods he's in. he seemed just as apathetic in Vietnam as he did on Mars. I wanted to see Superman turn into God.

The ending did not please me either.I have no clue how anyone in their right mind would think that an Orwellian dictatorship constitutes world peace. What the fuck! If I saw that kind of Nixon shit happening and I was the cause of it and I had super powers and I just discovered the worth of humanity, I would disintegrate Nixon and the head of the USSR who is probably Stalin, kill mopey ass Ozymandias and introduce super blue cold fusion. You do not have world peace when the supreme ruler of the most powerful country in the world is Richard fucking Nixon. The whole scheme wasn't world peace, it was to cement power for a corrupt dictator!

It was still a pretty movie with some nice moments. The movie is a Tim Burton's Batman, but I expect a Christopher Nolan's Batman. At least Tim Burton had Prince record songs specific to Batman.
Image
User avatar
Retardo_Montalban
doubleplusungood
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:28 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Hermanator X on Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:13 am

The opening credits in quicktime for those that want to revisit them.

Saw it last night, thought it was great and it worked very well for me. Kinda busy right now, so cant comment much, but wanted to put up the link above. Enjoy!!

Credits
Project: “Watchmen” title sequence
Client: Warner Bros

Design/Animation: yU+Co, Los Angeles, CA
Creative Director/Art Director: Garson Yu
Executive Producer: David Garber
Designers: Etsuko Uji, Neil Huxley and Johnny Wong
VFX Compositor: Alan Boucek
Match Mover: David Sudd
Project Coordinator: Annie Chen
...and so forth.
User avatar
Hermanator X
AIRWOLF
 
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:55 pm
Location: Kongsberg, Norway, This Town needs an enema

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Coheed_and_Cambria on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:03 am

Saw it last night, very much enjoyed it.

And after sleeping on it, I REALLY, REALLY LOVED IT.

It just felt like the perfect comic movie. Going in I explained to my fiancee that it takes place in an alternate reality, and she was like ok.....and then told me after ward she picked it apart based on the total lack of 80's clothing(kinda), but nonetheless, and non comic book fan enjoyed it too. And she enjoyed the big blue dong. LOL.

My favorite scenes were mostly of the flashbacks, especially Jon's. I felt more emotion watching then I did reading it, because they portrayed It just right, and just felt comic to screen for me.
More what I enjoyed though was Rorschach, and the actor who portrayed him. Amazing. People have been saying it's on Joker level. It was good, and maybe a little bit more screen time would have put it up to that level, but still creepy in a way. When he screams for his face back, true emotion.

The ending itself didn't feel any less powerful. "S.Q.U.I.D." or not.

I do have to ask though. I got up to pee once, very quickly, as Rorschach was being surrounded. Did Hollis Mason/Nite Owl die in this flick? I may have missed it at that moment, but it's killing me at this point.....

All in all the film was worth the wait, and will be worth even more when that directors cut comes out on dvd....
Image
User avatar
Coheed_and_Cambria
STEAK-A-BABY
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:42 pm
Location: Citrus Springs, FL

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Al Shut on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:13 am

Coheed_and_Cambria wrote:I do have to ask though. I got up to pee once, very quickly, as Rorschach was being surrounded. Did Hollis Mason/Nite Owl die in this flick? I may have missed it at that moment, but it's killing me at this point.....


No, that was missing
Note to myself: Fix this image shit!
User avatar
Al Shut
THE LAUGHING ZONER
 
Posts: 6239
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:57 pm
Location: Oberhausen, Germany

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Pacino86845 on Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:09 pm

Ribbons wrote:
Pacino86845 wrote:Zombies Ate My Remake


:shock:

Thanks a lot, now I'm gonna be having nightmares about giant ants


Giant babies are far scarier in my opinion...
User avatar
Pacino86845
EGYPTIAN LOVER
 
Posts: 14064
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:20 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:25 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:
Ribbons wrote:
Pacino86845 wrote:Zombies Ate My Remake


:shock:

Thanks a lot, now I'm gonna be having nightmares about giant ants


Giant babies are far scarier in my opinion...

Only if they're calling you "daddy".
Image
User avatar
Retardo_Montalban
doubleplusungood
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:28 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DennisMM on Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:36 pm

I'm still trying to decide whether to see this on opening weekend. I really hate overcrowded theaters, especially for big genre films that attract certain types of audiences in the first place. Maybe a really late show - midnight to three a.m. Or not; geez, would that throw off my sleep pattern. Maybe noon on Sunday?

Thank you to all for the reviews so far. As I've said, I'm hoping that I'll like this film. I suspect I will like it as a technical achievement. I admired 300 on a level or two, though I thought it failed badly as a whole. Based on Pacino's review especially, I suspect the jarring elements I'm hearing about will pull me out of the reality of the film. He and I have shown similar pessimistic but yearning points of view about this film, the kind best expressed by, "Please, let it not suck too badly!''

Guess I'll find out, and sooner rather than later. After work some evening? Hmm ...
Last edited by DennisMM on Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image
User avatar
DennisMM
NOT PARTICULARLY MENACING
 
Posts: 16813
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:02 pm
Location: Watchin' the reels go 'round and 'round

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Pacino86845 on Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:58 pm

I had resigned myself to accepting a lot of the changes that we'd been hearing about by the time I saw the movie yesterday, and so I was able to enjoy it in the end... Alan Moore would probably hate it, but it does not, after all, suck too badly. And also I don't really fault Zack Snyder any more, the guy clearly did his best on this film... that it falls short some times isn't something I'll hate Snyder for.
User avatar
Pacino86845
EGYPTIAN LOVER
 
Posts: 14064
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:20 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DennisMM on Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:14 pm

I think we were both saved by the excision of the space car chase, eh?



robo, Moore and Gilliam and others have called Watchmen unfilmable for valid reasons. It's not because you can't put the story on a movie or TV screen; obviously, even Samm Hamm's script from the late '80s managed to do that (if in a badly screwed up fashion). Watchmen is unfilmable because the story exists to support the themes of the book, which are simultaneously too dense and ethereal to put on film without the presentation being turgid or didactic.

The comic book is not really about the murder of Edward Blake and what happens during Rorschach's investigation. It's about the politics of the cold war, from both the liberal and conservative positions. (I find it interesting that the conservative publication takes its title from a phrase associated with JFK, who took a number of hard line anticommunist stances in spite of his essentially liberal position as president. The liberal publication is named after an hallucinogenic William S. Burroughs novel, so I'm not sure what that says - the left is essentially corrupt and lost in its own navel because its philosophy is fueled by fantasies or drugs?)

Much has been made of the film's deconstruction of superhero films via the use of overly stylized costumes, action sequences, and a certain amount of psychological exploration. However, Moore's deconstruction was not only of the superhero but of vigilantism. Alan Moore does not believe the superhero exists, at least as examined in Watchmen. Masked "heroes" and their methods are directly associated not only with power fantasies but with the crimes of the Ku Klux Klan and that group's essential cowardice in hiding behind disguises. The only valid crime fighters, it would appear, are Dr. Manhattan and the Silk Spectres, who have been open about their identities and motives - and their motives are petty. Sally Jupiter wants to be rich; Laurie and Jon are soldiers working under orders, nothing more. The others, especially Rorschach and Hooded Justice, are well-meaning but horribly confused, some nearly fascistic in their mindsets.

Even the high-minded Adrian Veidt seeks through various means to impose his personal philosophy upon as much of the world as his media empire will reach. Writing on free will, Nietzsche said, "The desire for "freedom of will" in the superlative, metaphysical sense, such as still holds sway, unfortunately, in the minds of the half-educated, the desire to bear the entire and ultimate responsibility for one's actions oneself, and to absolve God, the world, ancestors, chance, and society therefrom, involves nothing less than to be precisely this causa sui, and, with more than Munchausen daring, to pull oneself up into existence by the hair, out of the slough of nothingness." In spite of his great mind and self-education, Adrian Veidt is guilty precisely of this hubristic point of view and life philosophy. He's stuck with this point of view and his own defined will to power. Eventually, Veidt falls somewhere between Nietzsche and Joseph Campbell's "monster of ego" who has looked past his duty to the community and instead made his achievements about his own self-worth. Let us not forget that Jon does not believe in free will.

Hard to put those things on film without even more standing around talking than the story already has.
Image
User avatar
DennisMM
NOT PARTICULARLY MENACING
 
Posts: 16813
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:02 pm
Location: Watchin' the reels go 'round and 'round

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DaleTremont on Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:29 pm

Retardo_Montalban wrote:I'm going to get super flak for this, but I cringed during that scene when Silk Spectre I (Carla Gugino) was explaining why she felt bad that Blake died to Silk Spectre II (Malin Ackerman). That was some bad soap opera acting, right there. I also think there were enough fight scenes, but the tension and drama of any big action set pieces were ruined by long, drawn out, over exaggerated movements. Like Hitting some dude real hard and then stopping to strike a pose, or right before punching a dude's shin through his knee, there is a long wind-up and pause. The Comedian death scene looked like a cat burglar swinging an old man on some wires, through a window. That cat burglar (look at me keeping spoilers to a minimum) throws like a girl. I read somewhere, someone comparing a scene in this movie to that Oldboy super brawl. In Old boy, that crazy old dude went through that mob with pure grit and inertia. Something the fight scenes in this movie were lacking; zero inertia.

The music was confusing as hell. It wasn't anything specific to the era's they accompanied and one in particular is a little too synonymous with another movie for it to fit properly. The sound of silence? Really? I cannot listen to that song and not think of the Graduate. I sort of get All Along the Watchtower as a 'Nam tune, but it didn't play during any of the 'Nam scenes. 99 red balloons?

Jackie Earl Haley was awesome as Rorschach. He packaged and sold Rorschach in a defining way. I would have liked to see more sugar cubes though. Doc Manhattan was alright but I would have liked to see a little more of a character progression within the different time periods he's in. he seemed just as apathetic in Vietnam as he did on Mars. I wanted to see Superman turn into God.

The ending did not please me either.I have no clue how anyone in their right mind would think that an Orwellian dictatorship constitutes world peace. What the fuck! If I saw that kind of Nixon shit happening and I was the cause of it and I had super powers and I just discovered the worth of humanity, I would disintegrate Nixon and the head of the USSR who is probably Stalin, kill mopey ass Ozymandias and introduce super blue cold fusion. You do not have world peace when the supreme ruler of the most powerful country in the world is Richard fucking Nixon. The whole scheme wasn't world peace, it was to cement power for a corrupt dictator!

It was still a pretty movie with some nice moments. The movie is a Tim Burton's Batman, but I expect a Christopher Nolan's Batman. At least Tim Burton had Prince record songs specific to Batman.


I agree with most of what you just posted. I kind of hated pretty much everything with Laurie, except when it involved Dan Dreiberg's awkwardness. I really think Patrick Wilson did a fantastic job.

In theory I love the idea of using Scorcese-esque pop music soundtrack but so many times here it just came off as awkward. Whereas in Mean Streets you have an absolutely perfect use of the Rolling Stones, at the end of V for Vendetta they had to throw in Street Fighting Man to show they were all anarchist and came off looking silly and in Watchmen it sounds like someone left on a Greatest Hits of the 60s and 70s and 80s in the sound booth or something. I guess what I'm trying to say is they're desperately trying to capture the tone of Moore's work with music by reviving the revolutionary/anarchistic spirit of those decades but to my ears it sounded forced and unnatural. Except the part when the Comedian attacked a bunch of protesters to "I'm Your Boogie Man." I actually thought that was awesome.

Al Shut wrote:The questin would e how much can you blame the movie for it? What are backstory, plot and details that just had no place in the movie and when leve the ommissins noticeable holes in the rest of the movie?


Yeah I mean I guess they didn't really leave out much, all things considered. I think maybe it was just the feeling I got reading the novel vs. the feeling I got watching the movie. The novel felt like it was drawing you in slowly, things unfolded piece by piece, including things from the past. In the movie it alternated between feeling frantic and lethargic, between getting everything in and still staying true to the tone of the book. It's just not something you can really replicate, in my mind.

Plus to be honest even all the little things they left out kind of are essential in their smallness. Like Ozymandias' backstory as a gymnast and all-around all-American boy wonder...that made Veidt seem more comprehensible as a character and less villainous as a billionaire tycoon. Like Pacino pointed out here he might as well have been twirling his mustache from the first frame of him.

Pacino86845 wrote:And yet Watchmen is the best adaptation of an Alan Moore comic to date.


Yeah but talk about damning with faint praise! :lol:
Image
User avatar
DaleTremont
Loincloth Bronson
 
Posts: 3507
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:51 am
Location: Москва, bitches!

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DennisMM on Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:41 pm

DaleTremont wrote:Plus to be honest even all the little things they left out kind of are essential in their smallness. Like Ozymandias' backstory as a gymnast and all-around all-American boy wonder...that made Veidt seem more comprehensible as a character and less villainous as a billionaire tycoon. Like Pacino pointed out here he might as well have been twirling his mustache from the first frame of him.


This was my problem from the first time I saw Matthew Goode in character. Veidt isn't supposed to seem like a bad guy. He's just a little full of himself. Most people like or admire him as a person, not just a businessman. Even Jon seems not to mind him. He's not Snidely Whiplash.
Image
User avatar
DennisMM
NOT PARTICULARLY MENACING
 
Posts: 16813
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:02 pm
Location: Watchin' the reels go 'round and 'round

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:43 pm

I don't think Watchmen is unfilmable. The tools necessary in adapting the dense graphic novel are present in film. In film, you have sound, movement and nuanced actors, who, when utilized properly have the ability condense a bevy of ideas into a single scene.
Image
User avatar
Retardo_Montalban
doubleplusungood
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:28 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Raziel on Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:19 pm

I have to say, despite some silliness and awkward moments where things are translated almost too literally from the page, I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was, for the most part, quite a thrilling cinimatic experience. I'm not a Zynder fan, but I think he did as good a job as you could reasonably expect, and it was never ever going to live up to anything like the source material. I'm reading From Hell at the moment, and am shocked at how different it is from the film (which was fairly entertaining in and of itself, but talk about a butcher job). So it many ways, warts and all and flaws excepted, it's fairly sucessful. Surprized at just how graphic it is-It's rated 16 over here, but when the rating came up before the film, underneath it had 'On appeal from 18'. Looking forward to the director's cut.
User avatar
Raziel
PRIMITIVE SCREWHEAD
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:44 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland.

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby tapehead on Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:06 pm

Possibly my favourite bit of Snyder cinema previous to this is that first half hour of Dawn of the Dead, and I know I'm not alone in this - it's a great set up for a remake that doesn't ape it's source material but stays true to the premise of the original of Rising panic and chaotic, crazy happenings on the brink of a zombie apocalypse. Whatever other qualms I might have about his films, (and many of the symptoms are still on display in 'Watchmen', although muted), The director is capable of setting a scenario up very well. For the first forty minutes of Watchmen I was fairly engrossed by what seemed like an authentic and visually stunning (though almost always taking visual clues from the GN) iteration of Moore and GIbbons' story.

At the end, although I think the pacing is off (this is a film that doesn't dwell on anything, that is constantly moving through space and time, without ever pausing), I was left feeling that there were a lot of really great moments, with scenes and even whole chapters being presented very well, a LOT of slow motion shots, but happily not too much of the pointlessly hyper kineticism Snyder is often accused (by me, and many others), and some strikingly ordinary musical choices - great songs, but very familiar and totally unmerited by the scenes with which they appear in many cases.

The ending isn't great, although as a practical alternative to the uncanny and strange conclusion of the book, it's quite serviceable and makes sense fairly well (without getting into the amorality of the major characters and the conundrum, if any, this ending presents when the villain of the piece is so clearly signposted so early). There's some very weak acting, ham and cheese and a few really silly moments like a roly poly Dan Dreiberg doing a fairly soft and limp beast with two backs on board the Archimedes with Silk Spectre II to the strains of Leonard Cohen's 'Halleluah' (and that's not the silliest), but overall it's so heavily driven by plot and exposition you barely feel as a viewer that you have time to reflect upon it.

I'm quibbling, but will probably give this a strong 'six' on the poll. I can easily imagine myself warming further to an extended cut (as expected on disc) where these characters have a chance to fill out a little more. For instance, the Rorschach back story was covered, but I felt like not enough time was allowed to really let his psychotic, patriotic and neurotic character dwell on screen and create a strong impression. The violence Snyder chooses to display is gory and kind of fun, but also at times it seems illogical, and perhaps gratuitous. For instance in the GN there's a scene where Rorschach handcuffs a child murderer in house, douses everything in kerosene, strikes a match and says 'shouldn't bother trying to saw through the handcuffs...never make it in time'. It's a wonderfully gruesome moment, but it's implied, not shown. Instead, and almost as a replacement, we get Big Figure's henchmen arm's hacked off with an angle grinder in extreme close up during the prison riot. I like cinema violence, but it's so much less clever, and lacking the subtlety in comparison to the book.

This is Snyder's best film, by far, and the film is not a travesty or a complete failure - it's fine, it's quite ok. Where the GN is full of eccentricity and intellect, the film gets by on glamour and a modicum of smarts. Friends I went with who haven't read it (and a couple who had) enjoyed this a lot, and my copy of the book is set to be on loan to two or three people because of it. Go see it, there's too much good stuff in it not to - but it's Zach Snyder's Watchmen.
Last edited by tapehead on Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
tapehead
BALLS!!!
 
Posts: 9427
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:13 pm
Location: OZ

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby John-Locke on Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:10 pm

Just got back from seeing it with some of the UK Zoners, Me, Papa & Kirks have not read the Comic, FG & VB had. Those of us that hadn't read the source liked it a little more than the other two but I think on the whole we all liked it quite a lot.

After seeing the trailer I thought this was going to be silly, emo and crap. I didn't go in expecting much but had an open mind. Glad I gave i9t a chance as it's actually one of the most realistic superhero films I've seen (despite still being a little silly).

The film is not without it's flaws, Ozymandis character is not fleshed out at all, I don't know whats in the comic but I needed to see him fighting crime and working with the other Watchmen and wanted to know his backstory. Also both Ozy & Rorschach seemed superhuman, whats up with that? how did they get super powers? (j/k... Kinda). Night Owl getting the password from a book was ridiculous and from that point on the film seemed to lose some momentum. I loved the story and adore the complexity and moral dilemma of the Ozy's plan but something was missing, from what I hear about this Giant squid thing I think it might have been a better idea.

I found the action in the Prison scene pretty dull, not nearly as violent and cool as all the other multiple people fights in the film.

Damn there are some smoking hot women in this film, especially that lesbo Minuteman, YIKES! Wanted to see more of her in the film if you catch my drift.

On the whole I thought the film was very good, it's not perfect but personally I preferred it to The Dark Knight which didn't do very much for me except for it's kickass score and a few violent Joker moments. The Pencil trick is nothing compared to the deep studly fryer trick though.

Can't wait to see the directors cut, the film didn't drag until near the end and I would have happily sat through another 30 minutes.
Image
User avatar
John-Locke
BULLETPROOF TIGER
 
Posts: 12365
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:49 am
Location: Unknown

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:17 pm

Yeah it was OK. I dunno, but maybe I'm just above Superhero movies - and most of you lot, I guess.
User avatar
Cpt Kirks 2pay
The Dark Tower
 
Posts: 16624
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:49 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:09 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Yeah it was OK. I dunno, but maybe I'm just above Superhero movies - and most of you lot, I guess.


I imagine Kirk sitting on a toilet, with his lap top resting on his bare thighs, squeezing out a massive shit, while typing this post.
Image
User avatar
Retardo_Montalban
doubleplusungood
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:28 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:13 pm

Retardo_Montalban wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Yeah it was OK. I dunno, but maybe I'm just above Superhero movies - and most of you lot, I guess.


I imagine Kirk sitting on a toilet, with his lap top resting on his bare thighs, squeezing out a massive shit, while typing this post.


Oh I getchya - as in that I'm literally and physically ABOVE superhero movies and you guys? Oh Goard, just got another flashback. Too depressed to type!
User avatar
Cpt Kirks 2pay
The Dark Tower
 
Posts: 16624
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:49 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:29 pm

It was a travesty - both as a motion picture and an adaptation.

The next time someone has the bright idea to hire Zack Snyder, it needs to be limited to music videos or three minute "webisode" ideas.
User avatar
Fried Gold
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 13931
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Ribbons on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:34 pm

Fried Gold wrote:It was a travesty - both as a motion picture and an adaptation.

The next time someone has the bright idea to hire Zack Snyder, it needs to be limited to music videos or three minute "webisode" ideas.


Uh-oh! Any specific problems with it FG or just a general feeling of "meh"-ness?
User avatar
Ribbons
SQUARE PEG
 
Posts: 14134
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:00 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:36 pm

Ribbons wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:It was a travesty - both as a motion picture and an adaptation.

The next time someone has the bright idea to hire Zack Snyder, it needs to be limited to music videos or three minute "webisode" ideas.


Uh-oh! Any specific problems with it FG or just a general feeling of "meh"-ness?

No I really loved it.
User avatar
Fried Gold
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 13931
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby tapehead on Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:54 am

J Hoberman says here 'Zack Snyder Didn't Ruin Watchmen He just sapped it of its superpower'

The opening credit sequence is by far the best part of the film.
User avatar
tapehead
BALLS!!!
 
Posts: 9427
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:13 pm
Location: OZ

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Mark Hinnegan on Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:06 am

Personally, I thought that Watchmen was fan-awesome-fucking-tastic. It's rare that a movie ends and your only thought is; "I want to see that again. NOW." It's even more rare when you can only think of seeing it again after the first half hour.
Mark Hinnegan
TOMBOY BEANPOLE
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:32 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:42 am

I thought it had loads and loads of problems, too many to recover from.
User avatar
Fried Gold
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 13931
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby SilentBobX on Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:16 am

Having only glimpsed an occasional half-remembered panel or 2 from long long ago, I was confident going in that I'd be relaxed of expectations. I did, and I enjoyed this flick immensely, especially the opening credits which was equal parts humor and pathos. Absolutely great work and I loved the characters, especially The Comedian and I'm glad he got due screen time. It's definitely an IMAX experience and I'm glad it's my first film after my move here to Nashville.

Mahalo
Image
User avatar
SilentBobX
AIRWOLF
 
Posts: 1751
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:13 pm

Seriously though, I thought it was alright.
User avatar
Fried Gold
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 13931
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:22 pm

Yeah it was OK. Immaculately made, well acted, good play on it's themes and I like the way that a form of Armageddon was deliberately created by the Super so called Hero in order to make peace, even though Mr Butterflyface's journal will catch up with him in time possibly, if not the inevitability of society and human nature will, and in time the world will eventually return back to warring amongst itself. So not much wrong with the movie technically speaking. But I wasn't excited, moved, shocked, I didn't laugh or cry, nothing there that's gonna linger in the head or heart, not a movie that's gonna be that memorable, it just doesn't do much for me that's that significant, ho hum ho hum. Roll on Gran Torino, all I can say.
User avatar
Cpt Kirks 2pay
The Dark Tower
 
Posts: 16624
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:49 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:32 pm

Yeah, it was rubs.
User avatar
Fried Gold
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 13931
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:40 pm

Plus I had 2 right annoying twerps sitting next to me talking all the way through it and laugh and fucking applauding all the gory bits. Fucking gentlemen.
User avatar
Cpt Kirks 2pay
The Dark Tower
 
Posts: 16624
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:49 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:15 pm

But there was only about 30 seconds of gory bits.

You're getting like Hitler.
Last edited by Fried Gold on Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Fried Gold
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 13931
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby John-Locke on Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:19 pm



YouTube wrote:The URL contained a malformed video ID.
Image
User avatar
John-Locke
BULLETPROOF TIGER
 
Posts: 12365
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:49 am
Location: Unknown

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:53 pm



John Locke wrote:The URL contained a malformed video ID.


Fixed.
User avatar
Fried Gold
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 13931
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby papalazeru on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:11 pm

Fried Gold wrote:


John Locke wrote:The URL contained a malformed video ID.


Fixed.



Fixed...and fucking funny.
Last edited by papalazeru on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
User avatar
papalazeru
Not very classy! Not very classy at all!!
 
Posts: 11475
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:26 am

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:13 pm

Is this what you're posting?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhHema5PNg
User avatar
Nachokoolaid
THE DORK KNIGHT
 
Posts: 5606
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Gotham City

PreviousNext

Return to Movie Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 14 guests