DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

How doth thou want to die?

Hard
12
63%
Harder
1
5%
With a Vengeance
5
26%
Living Free
1
5%
 
Total votes : 19

DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:13 pm

Die Hard is the first, and probably the best. The idea is simple, the execution is near perfect. Alan Rickman steals the show. Twinkies.

Die Hard 2 is a film which is still really entertaining, and I've probably seen this one the most. Its main villain is somewhat under developed and a bit uninteresting. And it gets a bit silly in parts.

Die Hard 3 has a nice story concept, it tries to return to that spark of the original. And teaming McClane up with another strong character works well.

Die Hard 4.0 suffers because John McClane does too much, over too large an area, in too short a space of time. He's older, still a cop, yet apparently now has superpowers. And "hacking" in movies is lame. But it is still watchable, just less so as the story progresses.

Discuss. Now....and vote.
Last edited by Fried Gold on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby BuckyO'harre on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:42 pm

Can you add another pick to the poll,please?
I think everyone's choice for second favorite is the most interesting part of these series themed threads.

After Die Hard Uno, I think I have to go with Vengeance even though it's ending is a bit weak.
The second is... adequate. I don't find any one thing terribly wrong,but it just seems a tad lifeless,and lacks the humor of the first. All of the villains are pretty uncharismatic as well.
I saw some of the fourth while giving plasma once,and never felt compelled to see the rest.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Ribbons on Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:13 am

I posted this somewhere else, but I think the only good Die Hard movie is the first one, because in a lot of ways the whole point is that it's an anti-Action Hero movie, about a normal guy who winds up in the wrong place at the wrong time. So each time John McClane saves the world the whole effect meets with diminishing returns (and he even gets his own catchphrase), plus the stunts and story get more ridiculous and over-the-top. And how many times can robbers PRETEND to be terrorists? Bah! Even though none of them are completely terrible action movies on their own terms, each progressive sequel betrays the concept of the original exponentially, and is also THE DECLINE OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION!!! Okay I may have gone a bit far with that last part.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:37 am

I don't get why so may knives are out for the 4th. Granted, character wise it is a fall. McClane seems more indestructible and macho than the other movies and it seems he is just a bodyguard for the computer geek dude who actually is the one doing all the thinking.

But it trumps the 3rd film for being an actual action movie. Halfway through Vengeance the action and tension drops until we get that lame shit helicopter climax that was a reshoot anyway. In the 3rd, where's the rights? Where's the shootouts? A lot of action moments are ruined with a poorly shot stunt or some rubbish CGI explosion. The last 1/2 of the 3rd film is like a droopy dick.

The 4th succeeds over the 2nd in that it isn't full of cheesy cartoon characters and is far far better and more realistically acted. I don't find he action tooo over the top and there are a lot of real clever original or a little weirdly scripted action scenes. I love the novelty of having a fight in a 4x4 - stuck in a freaking elevator shaft(!) for example. Or Cop Car vs Chopper, or Truck vs Fighter Jet. There's some real cool far out action scenes which I do get a lot of enjoyment out of.

Then you got the plot. Look, the thing with Die Hard films which a lot of you are probably not aware of is that you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. Regarding the premise.

You complain that the movies get less self contained in their physical environments as these films continue. Well, what if they WERE still in confined locations? You'd then be complaining about how the same shit can happen to the same guy 4 times. It was part of the complain given to Die Hard 2 anyway. I was there, I remember the reviews and comments when that film came out.

With these films it's very hard to win when it comes to the story. You gotta remember that.

I also think that Die Hard is overrated. yeah it's a great drama, it's a great suspense movie. But the action isn't all that really. It's fairly basic, doesn't use a lot of imagination, it's not as ingenious as some of the Die Hard 2 action scenes or the 4th. And let's face it, Bruce Willis is NOT a great actor. the first film showed that. I didn't think he gave a good performance in that looking back and even at the time his confession scene in the toilet about his wife was cringy. He swore a lot of the time to express himself in that. It's rather excessive.

Bruce gives his best John McClane in the 3rd I reckon. He's cool, back to being an underdog who can hardly think straight with his hangover, but is employing all his wits and street knowledge to excellent effect throughout, thinking by the seat of his pants and running about like a hyperactive dog. He's always on edge and in peril but still managing to kick ass. Yet he does so whilst making his character more real, a lot of this to do with showing his vulnerabilities like breaking down when he sees the bomb on the ship, stuff like that. He's more believable that his NY street cop does exist in real life. Bruce gives an infectious performance here, and gives the movie the adrenalin rush that makes it such a fast film.

Roll on Die Hard 5.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby DerLanghaarige on Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:54 am

There was a 4th DIE HARD? I thought it was a skit from College Humor or something like that.
Anyway, I go with 1 & 3, because while WITH A VENGEANCE falls more and more apart, the closer it comes to the end, the first half is just way too good and Zeus Fucking Carver is a worthy team mate for McClane. Another guy, who tries to do the right thing, even if he don't want to. McClane doesn't need a sidekick, but if you have to give him one, it should be Zeus Carver. He's fucking BLACKClane!
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TonyWilson on Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:05 am

Action scenes in With A Vengenace - Taxi race through Central Park, New York subway bombing, Truck race through tunnels followed by McClane getting shot out of a water pipe, McClane killing about 10 bad guys in a tiny lift in the bank, the huge shoot out and fight on the boat before McClane and Zeus get captured, the boat blowing up, the helicopter vs revolver final ten minutes (not, I repeat for Kirk's benefit, NOT a whole half or third or even quarter of the running time). Each and every one more fun and well concieved than anything in DH4. Oh and Samuel L Jackson >>>>>>>>>>>>> x10billion The dude who played Warren fucking Chestwick in Ed.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:16 am

TonyWilson wrote:Action scenes in With A Vengenace - Taxi race through Central Park, New York subway bombing, Truck race through tunnels followed by McClane getting shot out of a water pipe, McClane killing about 10 bad guys in a tiny lift in the bank, the huge shoot out and fight on the boat before McClane and Zeus get captured, the boat blowing up, the helicopter vs revolver final ten minutes (not, I repeat for Kirk's benefit, NOT a whole half or third or even quarter of the running time). Each and every one more fun and well concieved than anything in DH4.


Oh **** off were they! :wink: :lol:

WHAT huge shoot out on the boat!? Exactly. I was expecting the landing on the boat to go all proper Die Hardy and have a good shoot out, but there's like one person getting shot only. There were like, just tiny intervals of violence on the boat, no bang bang bang going on, and as for that fight that was edited down to virtually nothing, well what a waste that was!

Oh and a crappy CGI explosion. Even fucking Fair Game had a better boat explosion than Die Hard 3! At least it was a real one!

McClane killed about FOUR people in that lift, and that wasn't a big action scene but rather just another quick outbreak of violence, with a lot of it cut on the original version that I saw.

That Helicopter scene at the end was dull dull dull. What happened to all the trucks with the gold? All those bad guys with all that ammo heading out - what the heck happened to them? Offscreen resolution? Get the fark outta here.

Nah man, that movie started off with a furious rush of action, but then it just went flat.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby magicmonkey on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:03 am

One is potentially the best action movie of all time, and I'm not referring to myself. The movie is sheer perfection, everyone involved has the right to be coked off their tits until the end of time where they can also slap each other repeatedly on the back and high five with Dumbledore abandon. True Lies is probably the 2nd best, for what Die Hard lacks in technical execution is what enables Cameron to gain some ground. The sequels really should not exist.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:08 am

magicmonkey wrote:True Lies is probably the 2nd best, for what Die Hard lacks in technical execution is what enables Cameron to gain some ground.


What?
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TonyWilson on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:24 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
TonyWilson wrote:Action scenes in With A Vengenace - Taxi race through Central Park, New York subway bombing, Truck race through tunnels followed by McClane getting shot out of a water pipe, McClane killing about 10 bad guys in a tiny lift in the bank, the huge shoot out and fight on the boat before McClane and Zeus get captured, the boat blowing up, the helicopter vs revolver final ten minutes (not, I repeat for Kirk's benefit, NOT a whole half or third or even quarter of the running time). Each and every one more fun and well concieved than anything in DH4.


Oh **** off were they! :wink: :lol:

WHAT huge shoot out on the boat!? Exactly. I was expecting the landing on the boat to go all proper Die Hardy and have a good shoot out, but there's like one person getting shot only. There were like, just tiny intervals of violence on the boat, no bang bang bang going on, and as for that fight that was edited down to virtually nothing, well what a waste that was!

Oh and a crappy CGI explosion. Even fucking Fair Game had a better boat explosion than Die Hard 3! At least it was a real one!

McClane killed about FOUR people in that lift, and that wasn't a big action scene but rather just another quick outbreak of violence, with a lot of it cut on the original version that I saw.

That Helicopter scene at the end was dull dull dull. What happened to all the trucks with the gold? All those bad guys with all that ammo heading out - what the heck happened to them? Offscreen resolution? Get the fark outta here.

Nah man, that movie started off with a furious rush of action, but then it just went flat.



That boat shoot out is still cool if short - and a dude gets chopped in half by a steel wire, that's some good shit. Yeh the ending is a bit of a letdown but compared to 4's wanktastic mexican standoff at the end and the worse villain of the whole series by a long way, well Vengance is still much much better. And at least McClane can swear!

And I think Monkey is saying that True Lies techincal awesomeness (Cameron is probs second only to Spielberg for being modern America's greatest technical director) give it the edge over DH's 2,3 and 4. But that the purity of the first combined with Willis' jocular, cocky, all to human hero makes it much much better than the sequels and True Lies combined.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby magicmonkey on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:32 am

TonyWilson wrote:
And I think Monkey is saying that True Lies techincal awesomeness (Cameron is probs second only to Spielberg for being modern America's greatest technical director) give it the edge over DH's 2,3 and 4. But that the purity of the first combined with Willis' jocular, cocky, all to human hero makes it much much better than the sequels and True Lies combined.


Indeed. What he said.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:37 am

TonyWilson wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
TonyWilson wrote:Action scenes in With A Vengenace - Taxi race through Central Park, New York subway bombing, Truck race through tunnels followed by McClane getting shot out of a water pipe, McClane killing about 10 bad guys in a tiny lift in the bank, the huge shoot out and fight on the boat before McClane and Zeus get captured, the boat blowing up, the helicopter vs revolver final ten minutes (not, I repeat for Kirk's benefit, NOT a whole half or third or even quarter of the running time). Each and every one more fun and well concieved than anything in DH4.


Oh **** off were they! :wink: :lol:

WHAT huge shoot out on the boat!? Exactly. I was expecting the landing on the boat to go all proper Die Hardy and have a good shoot out, but there's like one person getting shot only. There were like, just tiny intervals of violence on the boat, no bang bang bang going on, and as for that fight that was edited down to virtually nothing, well what a waste that was!

Oh and a crappy CGI explosion. Even fucking Fair Game had a better boat explosion than Die Hard 3! At least it was a real one!

McClane killed about FOUR people in that lift, and that wasn't a big action scene but rather just another quick outbreak of violence, with a lot of it cut on the original version that I saw.

That Helicopter scene at the end was dull dull dull. What happened to all the trucks with the gold? All those bad guys with all that ammo heading out - what the heck happened to them? Offscreen resolution? Get the fark outta here.

Nah man, that movie started off with a furious rush of action, but then it just went flat.



That boat shoot out is still cool if short - and a dude gets chopped in half by a steel wire, that's some good shit. Yeh the ending is a bit of a letdown but compared to 4's wanktastic mexican standoff at the end and the worse villain of the whole series by a long way, well Vengance is still much much better. And at least McClane can swear!

And I think Monkey is saying that True Lies techincal awesomeness (Cameron is probs second only to Spielberg for being modern America's greatest technical director) give it the edge over DH's 2,3 and 4. But that the purity of the first combined with Willis' jocular, cocky, all to human hero makes it much much better than the sequels and True Lies combined.


The 4th always had a hard time with an unthreatening villain, the only danger he could present was in how hard he touched his keypad. If you want a more satisfying showdown to Die Hard 3 then watch the deleted scenes. In this, McClane tracks Hans down in Europe, and they play a game of Russian Riddle Roulette with a rocket launcher. Both give great performances and Willis in particular steps up his game a bit, not that he wasn't already really good throughout the movie.

I liked the Mexican stand off in DH4 though. You already had a big action set piece with the Jet Fighter vs Truck so a more 'intimate' ending was nice. Heck it worked for the first film anyway.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Spandau Belly on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:00 pm

That alternate ending to DIE HARD 3 is even worse than the already crappy helicopter thing in Canada. The theatrical ending breaks the pace of the film and feels like a tack-on epilogue and the alternate ending does that even worse, only it also completely breaks the tone and goes into absurd spy nonsense.

Movies play within their rules. As stupid and poorly executed as it was, I can accept McClane surfing a bus on an underground tidal wave, but I am not buying him as making his way around Europe gathering intelligence, playing spy games, and obtaining a rigged rocket launcher and strutting into a pub, blowing up Jeremy Irons, and then walking out the front door.

McClane's a cowboy, not a spy.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:27 pm

I think both endings are poor for the film itself. Original is a lame action one that couldn't be arsed to do it properly. The alternative ending, it's what, 7 minutes long? It's brilliant drama in and of itself but if I saw that in the theatre? No way. It don't fit.

It's just nice as an alternative scene viewed on it's own. The backstory behind it, yeah, it's questionable, especially as McClane says he's been outed by the NYPD or the Feds as they thought him an ally to Gruber with hiding the money.

I may be incorrect but when the movie first came out, just after the Oklahoma bombings, the original ending had to be changed to the helicopter one as it was too similar to that building being blown up. I tried to find out more about this at the time, but didn't find much. I heard someone who was in public relations at Fox or something say that the headache pill bottle had something to do with it, but maybe this was just in the original film in how McClane tracked them to Nova Scotia. I dunno.

But yeah, that helicopter scene was definitely a reshoot I was told. Something also to do with Bruce wearing a hairpiece and this being rather evident (as his bald self was called back from filming 12 Monkeys at the time).

But there was SOMETHING filmed, I know that. Anyone shed any light on this, I'd pay you. With a gold bar.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Fried Gold on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:48 pm

I don't think Timothy Elephant is particularly good villain in Die Hard 4. He basically just spends the whole time looking at a computer monitor snarling, then occasionally takes his gamer headset off in a huff.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby GothamAlleys on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:11 am

The first one is great and I dont think it even has to be said.

The second one I really enjoyed as well and rank it right behind the first one

The third one was great as well but the climax was extremely dissapointing. You had 2 great villains, one brains, one body, and they just lazely get blasted together in a helicopter

Fourth one felt too generic and way too over the top in places
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:51 pm

I like the way you describe the 4th, as yeah, generic is a fitting description. No matter what good stuff I said about it, it doesn't feel as much like a Die Hard movie as the others, even parts of the 3rd. I don't mind the OTTness of it too much, it's stuff like that that DOES make Die Hard stand out a bit over other films of it's ilk. Also you have to remember that there have been other films that have tried to outdo Die hard in big or unique action scenes.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TheButcher on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:52 am

'Die Hard' is the Unconventional Christmas Gift That Keeps on Giving

by Tyler Wantuch
December 24, 2012
Die Hard

Hans Gruber (Alan Rickman) has checked his list once, has checked it twice and is now gonna decide who's naughty or nice. Poor Mr. Takagi (James Shigeta) has unfortunately been deemed naughty for not assisting in this holiday heist and has been handled accordingly. Just like Father Christmas, Hans labors relentlessly to prepare for one glorious night in which he can bring an awfully large present to his loyal elves country-less mercenaries. Hans and his cronies all arrive by a train of unmarked vehicles in place of a bell-toting sleigh and come up from the underground parking lot instead of down the chimney. Read on!

Once inside, he creates tiny Christmas miracles: fooling the fire department into turning around and having the FBI cut the power to release the vault's final safeguard. Hans laughs despite his lack of a bowl full of jelly for he knew these "miracles" would happen. And while the soundtrack blasts Beethoven's "Ode to Joy," his cohorts' faces soon brighten like children on Christmas morning as the vault swings slowly open revealing the priceless gifts. Just like Santa Claus, Christmas Eve was Hans' night and nothing could ruin it, except perhaps the Grinch of a New York cop named John McClane (Bruce Willis). Die Hard which will soon be joined by A Good Day to Die Hard in 2013, is one Christmas movie of which I cannot get enough.

Die Hard is one of those films that only seems to come every few years when everything on the screen, to put it bluntly, just worked. Its fluid nature of not adhering to any genre, coupled with Jan De Bont's stellar cinematography takes this action-Christmas-thriller into the "classic" realm. Neither the Christmas nor the action side of the film make a convincing argument for any genre. In fact, both aspects are merely sprinkled, like a freakish California snowfall, throughout the plot. We hear as many songs and mentions of the holidays as we receive action-esque explosions filled with machine gun fire that tears offices to bits. But the moments of Christmas and the moments of action are all in passing, which is a good thing. If the film went full throttle into a predictable action formula or, even worse, somehow tied a Hallmark miracle into the ending, we wouldn't be talking about this film 24 years later. Its chameleon-like style allows the film to stay light on its feet and allow the actors and setting to fill in the blanks needed for its darker tone.

Die Hard - Ho, Ho, Ho

This darker tone comes via the use of thriller techniques. With steamy crevices, darkened hallways and machine gun toting monsters, the meat and potatoes of Die Hard is similar to a horror film. There is something Alien-esque about De Bont's officescape that traps and suffocates John McClane inside the nightmarish high-rise. John stumbles through the screen, cut up from glass and beaten repeatedly by freakishly large Europeans. He acts less like an action star and more as if he were a final girl in a B-movie slasher flick. We see him hiding in silence and climbing through secret catacombs instead of blasting his way through hordes of bad guys, not to mention the inclusion of several horror clichés like the bumbling, unsupportive police and the "sinner"/doomed-to-be-killed character - in this case cocky drug addict, Harry Ellis (Hart Bochner). Nor can we ignore the typical and sudden return of Karl (Alexander Godunov), the largest of Hans' elves, who appears from the "dead" only to be shot down by Carl Winslow look-alike Sgt. Al Powell (Reginald VelJohnson).

This thriller approach intensifies John's resourcefulness and cunning while limiting the over-the-top shenanigans that are the downfall of most action films. Because we're worried John will be caught in nearly every scene, we're relieved each and every time he escapes by the skin of his teeth. Each act of violence against him becomes a badge of honor, until John McClane becomes a more of a survivor than a hero. How could this hodgepodge of cinema (thriller with hints of action and Christmas) not only survive itself, but also thrive to the point of demanding multiple sequels and earn the ridiculous standard of being one of the best Christmas movies ever made?

Bruce Willis is the short answer. John McClane is an action star unlike the usual Rambos and Kickboxers of the time: he is imperfect. Bruce Willis has made a living off of playing the flawed hero (see Unbreakable, The Fifth Element, RED - or any pretty much any other Bruce Willis film). He can't seem to get away from such roles. In Die Hard, McClane is afraid of flying, he second guesses his own actions and he doesn't know how to say sorry to his wife (to name just a few of his issues). The list of flaws grows larger as the film rolls on, but another, more important list grows as well: his achievements.

With everything that he complains about or is frightened by, McClane still manages to overcome and flourish inside the disastrous situation. His flaws help present him as a realistic hero: one that is scared of jumping off a sky-rise with only a fire hose tied to his waist, but also one who is capable of fantastic action movie feats - such as jumping off a sky-rise with only a fire hose tied to his waist. The Janus effect of being both realistic and fantastic help immerse him deep into our psyche. He is real enough to be believed and fantastic enough to catch our imagination. Being armed with some of the best one-liners doesn't hurt either. He's similar to another franchise that focuses on a flawed hero: Indiana Jones. Instead of hating snakes he hates flying; instead of not wanting to save the whiney blonde, John doesn't want to continue fighting with glass in his feet. Not a bad archetype for a film's protagonist to follow.

Die Hard - Hans Gruber

John McClane may be the short answer to why Die Hard works, but the long answer is tied deep into his relationship with our Santa-esque villain, Hans Gruber. The film pits our flawed hero against a perfectionist of an opponent. Hans is the type of antagonist you love to hate. A villain who, in his mind, has calculated every minuscule detail; a villain who, because of this planning, is dripping in confidence. Our irritation grows when we discover that even the supposed mistakes end up being part of the plan after all.

Hans is a top of the line production of this type of foe, and it's the "opposites attract" relationship between him and John that keep our eyes glued to the screen. Hans is a well-kempt, patient, intelligent criminal who would much rather plot and plan then ever put up his dukes. John McClane, however, is a hot-headed, blue collared, fisticuffs hero. Their differences are highlighted throughout the film, begging us to compare the two men as they both struggle for control. Hans stubbornly refuses to alter his plan regardless of any mischief John creates, whether he has stolen the detonators, notified the police early or even killed half of his men. From start to nearly finish, his course stays rigid.

Meanwhile, John is constantly adapting his strategy according to the situation. He can never get too comfortable because new surprises lurk around each corridor. In a twist towards the end, the two men switch personalities. Hans becomes erratic due to his rising anger towards McClane which changes his steadfast behavior. He impulsively kidnaps John's wife, Holly (Bonnie Bedelia). When John enters for the final showdown, he, not Gruber, has planned ahead by means of a taped pistol to his neck. In the ensuing moments we realize Gruber is outmatched. John is capable of not only improvisation, but planning as well. Han isn't capable of thinking on his feet, which leads to his undoing.

Die Hard is an anomaly. It's magic caught in a bottle. The cinematography and the actors push this mediocre script to limits that could not have been imagined. I'm reminded of Casablanca, a picture that required several directors and countless rewrites, and somehow, under all of these constraints, came out nearly perfect. Die Hard did not go through such lengths to be made, but when all was said and done in both films, something magical was captured, a sum greater than its parts. We can dissect and argue about what makes Die Hard so special - be it the fluid treatment of genre, the flawed hero, or the wonderful pairing of hero and villain. It's all in vain, though, as we should simply consider Die Hard a Christmas miracle.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TheButcher on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:43 am

so sorry wrote:



Pretty soon he's going to need Viagra to keep getting Hard.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby papalazeru on Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:38 am

TheButcher wrote:
so sorry wrote:



Pretty soon he's going to need Viagra to keep getting Hard.


Had a friend on set when they were filming here in the UK, he was joking and smiling with everyone about how he's going to keep making these as long as he's alive and they are stumping up the cash.

So yes, invariably these are all cash cows now.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby RogueScribner on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:54 pm

Die Hard ranks as one of my favorite movies ever. It doesn't have the best action I've ever seen, the best drama, the best suspense, etc. But the overall package and how it all blends together ranks it as my go to action movie. It was one man trapped in a 40 story building with 12 terrorists and there was a palpable sense of danger throughout. You felt like at any moment John McClane could fail, that he could die, but he always managed to fight his way through it and come out on top.

Die Hard 2 exemplifies everything that is wrong with sequels. Everything is ramped up to 11 and the charm of the first movie is largely lost. It's a pretty slick production that has a few ridiculous moments. Still, John McClane was essentially John McClane in this entry, so as cheesy as it is, it's still watchable.

Die Hard With a Vengeance was a pretty good movie. Yeah, everything after the boat sucked, but up until that point it was a pretty fun ride. Good action, good interplay between McClane and Zeus, memorable characters. This movie was a breath of fresh air after DH2, even if it did dabble in stupid at times.

Live Free or Die Hard was a mixed bag. It's like, if this wasn't a Die Hard movie I could enjoy it more. This is the entry that started to turn John McClane into a superhero. Personality-wise and dramatically speaking this was the same John McClane we've always known. But he did things in this movie with a quiet confidence that would have made the John McClane of even the prior installment shit his pants. Still, there was some really cool action scenes in this movie, even if it all did seem a little slick. The fact that it was sanitized for a PG-13 audience also robs the series of a bit of its punch. Die Hard has never been gory for gore's sake, but when it did show up it was to emphasize how brutal things really were. How grave the situation was turning out for our hero. I watched the marathon at AMC yesterday and on the big screen you could really tell which scenes were edited to reduce the MPAA rating. Dialogue didn't match the lips, shots were cut before things got too bloody, etc. I believe that hurt the film, but in no way was the primary reason the movie didn't ultimately work well.

A Good Day to Die Hard had a really cool opening credits sequence. That worried me. :lol: The set up of McClane going to Russia to search for his son who's been arrested was a little rushed, but I'm onboard. I was hoping with the R-rating the series was returning to its roots: a fish out of water, odds stacked against him, no hope of success, but dammit he has to try because who else will? I was looking forward to that. The trailers had me a little worried, but if you lay the proper foundation you can work your way up to some outlandish action and still keep things "believable." About 15 minutes into this barely 90 minute movie (not counting end credits) a 10 - 15 minute car chase begins. I don't know how long it actually was, I just know it felt like forever. It seemed like it was never going to end. And it just kept getting more and more ridiculous. Any hopes of the return of down-and-out and still quite human John McClane were dashed. John McClane was now officially a superhero performing feats no mortal could ever achieve. Bruce Willis looks his age (57), if not a bit older. Yet he's pulling stunts in this movie that would send a 20 year old to the hospital. Car rams, car flips, jumping bridges, spin outs, etc. and all without a seatbelt on. 20 minutes into this movie I thought, "That is not John McClane. I'm getting bored. Maybe this is just to grab the audience's attention. Hopefully it gets better soon." It never did.

While the action was even more over the top than LFODH (and you didn't think that was possible, did you?), it was rarely interesting. The bad guys lacked charisma. The only other good guy in the movie is McClane's son Jack. They don't have a good rapport. Other than some perfunctory conversations about wah-you're-a-lousy-father-cause-you-were-never-around wah-i-was-never-around-because-i-was-working-trying-to-be-a-good-father there's just nothing going on between these two. Hate on Justin Long's character all you want, but in the last movie at least some shit was getting worked out between them and there was an arc that carried through to the end. Plus you had other good guys to bring in fresh information and for McClane to bounce off of every once in a while. In this movie, it's just his son. That's it. And his son is just carbon cutout macho guy #3 with a chip on his shoulder regarding his dad. The story never builds to anything bigger, though the action certainly does. It's all just by-the-numbers bullshit storytelling and by the end I just stared blankly at the screen as the credits rolled. For the first time in my life, I didn't like a Die Hard movie. Not even a little bit. I wanted to get the Blu-ray collection but was worried because there's now a #5 and I'd just have to buy a separate box set later. Well now I don't care. I never wish to see #5 again. It was basically generic Bruce Willis action movie and was Die Hard in name only. Fuck this movie. I thought DH2 was bad. This movie is so much worse. If you're a fan of the Die Hard series, don't taint your love by seeing this movie. What a lousy way to end my day yesterday. Fuck.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Al Shut on Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:26 pm

RogueScribner wrote: I wanted to get the Blu-ray collection but was worried because there's now a #5 and I'd just have to buy a separate box set later.


And now you have to wait how Die Hard 6 will turn out :twisted:
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Spandau Belly on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:36 am

I agree with RogueScribner that DIE HARD isn't an action movie that is about its sequences, I don't think there is really one big action sequence that everybody would single out and watch on its own. It's a film that is made up of a million great beats and rising tension. It's perfectly built to continually set the audience's expectations, then exceed them, but in a reasonable way so that it never feels like it suddenly gets way too big in scope and loses perspective. The action just keeps notching up gradually it never feels like it just stops to have a self-contained action sequence. The movie keeps flowing and every scene advances the story. McClane starts off fighting one guy in a stairwell and ends up using a firehose to bungee jump out of an exploding building and it earns that level of escalation with every step inbetween. It really is one of the greatest films ever made and action filmmakers should study how it handles escalation.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby RogueScribner on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:57 pm

Al Shut wrote:
RogueScribner wrote: I wanted to get the Blu-ray collection but was worried because there's now a #5 and I'd just have to buy a separate box set later.


And now you have to wait how Die Hard 6 will turn out :twisted:


My only hope is that DIE HARD 6 is more like STAR TREK VI or ROCKY VI and less like POLICE ACADEMY 6 or LEONARD PART 6.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TheButcher on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:26 pm

Novel That Inspired 'Die Hard' Returns to Print After 20 Years
Roderick Thorp’s “Nothing Lasts Forever” was adapted into the iconic franchise's first film.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TheButcher on Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:45 am

Steven E. de Souza Talks Commando 2, Sgt. Rock, the Flash Gordon Movie You May Never See, and Much More!
Mike Cecchini wrote:Can you talk about how Commando 2 evolved into Die Hard?

None of that is true! That’s all bullshit! Die Hard is based on a novel called Nothing Lasts Forever by Roderick Thorpe, and it’s the sequel to a previous novel called The Detective which was made into a movie with Frank Sinatra. In that movie you can see he’s divorced from his wife and they’re trying to get back together...which is all very John McClane and Holly. The studio had bought the rights to the novel when they made the Sinatra movie in the late '60s, and they also bought the right of first refusal to any sequel.

The thing is, how this story got set that Die Hard was gonna be Commando 2, I just don’t know where the rumor came from. It was never going to be anything else. There was a sequel to Commando that I had worked on and Frank Darabont made some changes to, and in that script at the end, Arnold had to break into a building where the bad guys had holed up with his daughter (this was supposed to be about two years later), and Rae Dawn Chong.

I had written it so that when the media got wind of everything that Arnold had done in the first movie, he went on to become a security specialist who had been hired to make this building secure. Then he had to break into the building that he had designed. I think somehow the idea that he was a guy trying to break into a building got confused with the guy trapped in a building, but it’s exactly the opposite. If Commando 2 resembled anything, it was the one that just came out with Sly and Arnold, Escape Plan where you have to break out of a place you designed. Let’s put that rumor to bed right now, as there was no connection between those movies!

Whose idea was it to set Die Hard at Christmas? It's becoming this thing now where movie theaters in New York City show it at midnight around Christmas and everything...

Yes, I’m aware it’s become that kind of thing. There’s also a party every Christmas in the Die Hard building in Century City. It was in the original book, though.

Funny enough, the first movie my kids ever saw in the theaters was Die Hard. I used to bring home the “airline versions” of the movies with no cursing. The first time I took them to see that, the moment where Bruce looks through the door and sees all those heavily armed guys coming in, and he’s barefoot and runs up the stairs, and my son, who I was trying to protect from these R-Rated movies grabs my arm and says, “Dad! The hero’s chickenshit!” I said, “Where did you learn that word? It wasn’t from my movies, because you haven’t seen the ones with bad words!”
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Spandau Belly on Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:27 pm

DIE HARD enthusiast gets back tattoo.

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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TheButcher on Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:14 am

Alan Rickman Says 'Die Hard' Was "Quite Revolutionary," But Admits He Almost Turned It Down
Kevin Jagernauth wrote:In the pantheon of great villains, Alan Rickman's delicious Hans Gruber from "Die Hard" ranks right up there. The baddie from the first, and best, movie in the franchise is a big ingredient for why it works so well — every hero needs a formidable foe, and the more colorful, the better — but Rickman recently revealed that he nearly didn't take the part.

“I didn’t know anything about LA. I didn’t know anything about the film business … I’d never made a film before, but I was extremely cheap,” the theatre-trained Rickman said at BAFTA (via The Guardian) about his earliest foray in Hollywood. And he certainly wasn't taken with script at first, recalling that he thought, “What the hell is this? I’m not doing an action movie.”

But once he took another look, he realized that "Die Hard" was much more than just a brawny vehicle for Bruce Willis. “Every single black character in that film is positive and highly intelligent,” he reflected. “So, 28 years ago, that’s quite revolutionary, and quietly so.” It's certainly an interesting observation, and we can thank Rickman for another change from Hollywood's standard formula — it was his idea for Hans Gruber to be a suit-wearing terrorist.

So, celebrate sixteen years of "Die Hard" with another watch soon. And appreciate it a little bit more, especially considering that had things gone differently, Rickman might've bowed out from playing the iconic bad guy.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby so sorry on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:41 am

TheButcher wrote: “Every single black character in that film is positive and highly intelligent,” he reflected. “So, 28 years ago, that’s quite revolutionary, and quietly so.


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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TheButcher on Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:06 am

On this day in 1988, John McClane saved the Nakatomi Plaza from terrorists. Never forget.
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Hart Bochner interview: Ellis in Die Hard, directing, and more
We track down Ellis from Die Hard, Mr Hart Bochner, to talk about acting, directing and his environmental work. Plus: his teeth…
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:05 am

so sorry wrote:
TheButcher wrote: “Every single black character in that film is positive and highly intelligent,” he reflected. “So, 28 years ago, that’s quite revolutionary, and quietly so.


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?? wtf was this a pic of, ss ?
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby so sorry on Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:45 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
so sorry wrote:
TheButcher wrote: “Every single black character in that film is positive and highly intelligent,” he reflected. “So, 28 years ago, that’s quite revolutionary, and quietly so.


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?? wtf was this a pic of, ss ?



If I had to guess, it was probably a picture of the limo driver.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Al Shut on Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:54 am

Looks like a cat to me , but I'm not an expert.
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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TheButcher on Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:01 am

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Re: DIE HARD QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:40 am

that cat is obviously purple and pink.
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