Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheBaxter on Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:55 pm

it looks like it should be good spectacle, at least. say what you will about zack snyder, but he handles the action beats well, certainly better than the last Bale-man film. can't quite shake the feeling that this movie will end with Bruce Wayne waking up from a dream and remembering that there's no way in hell he would actually be able to stand up to Superman.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:02 pm

so sorry wrote:


Final (?) trailer...


Man, this just makes me wish this was a standalone Batman film, because that shit at the beginning was really good.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Peven on Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:08 pm

Kick. Ass.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Ribbons on Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:54 am

So a lot of digital ink has been spilled about Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor, whether or not he's annoying, whether fans approve of changes made to the character, etc. But I actually read an interesting editorial on Collider today that, in the wake of rich young douchebags like Martin Skreli*, this iteration of Lex might just be the villain we deserve:

http://collider.com/lex-luthor-jesse-eisenberg-batman-vs-superman-martin-shkreli/

*(this guy)
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby so sorry on Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:02 am

Ribbons wrote:So a lot of digital ink has been spilled about Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor, whether or not he's annoying, whether fans approve of changes made to the character, etc. But I actually read an interesting editorial on Collider today that, in the wake of rich young douchebags like Martin Skreli*, this iteration of Lex might just be the villain we deserve:

http://collider.com/lex-luthor-jesse-eisenberg-batman-vs-superman-martin-shkreli/

*(this guy)
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Interesting take.

But still... having the "villain" of a superhero movie NOT be somewhat intimidating from a physical point of view never feels right. Even if they gave him some beefed up henchmen to add some presence to his scenes would help. Otherwise he just comes across as a "I'll sue your ass and delete all your bank accounts mwahahahaha!" douchebag vs. "I'll beat the piss out of you and destroy the world" kinda bad guy.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:23 am

he looks more like the Riddler to me.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:20 pm

Ribbons wrote:...whether fans approve of changes made to the character...

I always find comments like this a bit stupid. In 76 years, there have already been variations of the character in the comics, cartoons, TV and movies.

There is no one Lex Luthor, other than the basic model being a smart, billionaire businessman supervillain. Otherwise people can do whatever they want with him.

Bryan Singer went through the same nonsense from "fans" with X-Men and Superman Returns.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Peven on Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:03 pm

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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Ribbons on Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:27 pm

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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheBaxter on Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:40 am



well i'd like to read that review, but apparently the Forbes website won't let me unless i turn off my ad blocker. so fuck you Forbes.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby so sorry on Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:27 pm

TheBaxter wrote:


well i'd like to read that review, but apparently the Forbes website won't let me unless i turn off my ad blocker. so fuck you Forbes.



Ditto. Forbes and Ribbons are elitist snobs.

Go to the AICN mothersite for Quint's review. It ain't pretty, and I feel like he held back a little bit in his criticism too...
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Fievel on Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:28 pm

Moriarity's Review:**

'Batman v Superman' throws lots of punches, but with no impact at all


** - Dammit, Butcher, this is YOUR job!! :D :( :( :( :( :( :(


MoS looked amazing to me in its trailers. The movie itself disappointed me.
BvS looked horrible to me in its trailers. I was hoping the same "opposite" effect was going to happen. I still WANT to be entertained by this film.

The reviews are all over the place, even in their majority dislike of the film. Some people hate the film but love Affleck. Some people hate all the performances. Eisenberg is mostly hated, yet some love his Luthor. Just about everyone says it "looks" great - except Doomsday. Auugghhhhh!!!!! I really wanted this to be good. I still have about a nickel's worth of hope left...... at least the film looks good, right?
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:59 am

This sounds like a miserable experience. I'll wait for home video to catch this, in preparation for SUICIDE SQUAD.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Bloo on Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:48 am

Random Nerdy Thoughts

SPOILERS MIGHT ABOUND

1) Gal Gadot - As fas as I'm concerned, the real stand out of the film is Gal's Wonder Woman. She is mysterious, beautiful, strong, torn. Everything I want from Wonder Woman. Perfect casting. I can't wait for the Wonder Woman movie

2) Ben Affleck - Batfleck was great. Haters are going to hate, but I loved this Miller-esque grizzled Batman. There is a sad pathos here of a man who has devoted 20 years to fighting crime and is confronted with something he has never seen before. Now then, I know in theory Bruce/Batman can't know EVERYTHING about what happened in World War I but it seems like WW is going to tell a pretty big story about World War I and you would think that a student of history would know about her involvement. But really, I'd say he is the best live action Batman we've seen.

3) Jesse Eisenberg - Eisenberg's Luthor is...weird. I mean it's an okay performance at times, but at other times he starts going over the top and it becomes a parody almost of Ledger's Joker. I did like that they played up the "mad scientist aspect of Luthor that has been missing. He is Dr. Frankenstein, trying to better the world but getting rid of Superman and the possible meta threat.

4) Which brings me to - None of the "metas" are actually Meta humans. Wonder Woman is a goddess, Flash and Cyborg are the result of science gone wrong (which is a theme that could be played on in future movies, but probably won't be), Aquaman is from Atlantis. None of these contain the "metagene" (DC's answer to mutants). It's like calling Spider-Man a mutant.

5) Other Easter Eggs - Flash's dream appearance, wasn't needed. The video footage was pretty cool. I was expecting a connection to Suicide Squad, a mention of ARGUS, but maybe I'm Marvel-spoiled in this regard. there were some nice subtle DC references (Major Ferris, Phantasm of all things). I also picked up some homages to Batman '66 and Batman '89. The Darkseid stuff was a bit much and took me out of the film. If it was JUST a fear of Superman turning into a despot, okay, but tying it into Darkseid with the Omega sigil and parademons, was...weird.

6) Henry Cavill - He was Superman. Not GREAT but not HORRIBLE. He was perfectly fine

7) Jeremy Irons - My new go-to Alfred voice. Not as snarky as Caine, as subservient as Gough or as violent as Pertwee but a nice mix of the both of them

The movie is both too long and too short. They are trying to do in 2.5 hours World's Finest, The Death of Superman, setting up Justice League, MoS 2, The Dark Knight Returns and Darkseid War.

Overall grade, I'd give it a C- based on sheer hutzpah, some really great performances, some decent fights. Like most Synder films, he swings for the fences and hits a double. he tries just can't quite succeed.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheBaxter on Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:18 pm

wow this thing sounds bad. well i'm probably gonna be forced to see it in a theater anyway, at least i'll know that if there are annoying people in the crowd ruining the movie, there isn't anything there to actually be ruined.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Ribbons on Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:30 pm

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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby bastard_robo on Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:15 am

I loved it. Loved just about every moment.

I can't stand people shitting on this because it's "Not how they'd do it" Or "not my batman/superman ect"

I loved MOS, I love Cavill's Superman. I love that we live in a world that this movie exists.

I'll delve more later, but, it's good.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Fried Gold on Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:10 pm

Well, it's made its budget back worldwide in a weekend.

So whether the critics liked it or not, there's going to be more.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Ribbons on Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:53 pm

Yeah, it's already the fourth-highest grossing movie of the year (discounting The Mermaid, which came out last year). Pretty crazy.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Fried Gold on Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:50 pm

If you've seen it already, this is a "deleted scene" that WB put on Youtube earlier:

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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Peven on Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:29 pm

it had flaws. certainly, but as a whole I enjoyed it a good bit, I liked it better than "Avengers: Age of Ultron" and thought it had more emotional resonance, too.

biggest complaint is Eisenberg's Lex Luthor, but i think that falls on how the character is written as much as the performance, but I think Affleck's Batman is very solid and i look forward to seeing a solo movie directed by him, which I am hoping will be a prequel that shows how Robin's suit ended up in the Batcave on display with Joker's graffiti on it, but I doubt it.

second biggest complaint, there is a point in the movie where other members of the Justice League are shown and the way it is handled is almost like a cut scene from a video game it is so expository.

I like Iron's Alfred and he will be a welcome part of a batman solo movie.

Wonder Woman is really built up here, and she does a good job of making an impression

"I'm a friend of your son"...who says the movie is humorless? :wink:
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Fried Gold on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:49 pm

I have to say, now I've seen it, I feel like the critical review (and associated "internet" response) seems rather unfair.

For me, it ticked all the boxes it needed to.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Ribbons on Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:23 pm

What were the boxes you wanted ticked FG, just out of curiosity?
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:35 am

Ribbons wrote:What were the boxes you wanted ticked FG, just out of curiosity?

- superheroes doing superhero stuff
- supervillains doing supervillain stuff
- a Lex Luthor who isn't just Gene Hackman.
- a satisfactory continuation of Man of Steel
- not overly visual effects driven 100% of the time (as per Man of Steel)
- visual effects driven when needed
- a story that's interesting and exciting enough to fill 2.5 hours.
- hints at a larger plot and universe
- reason to want to see more

A box they didn't tick? No appearance or even a mention of Booster Gold. That second bit of the Knightmare sequence could have had Booster Gold travelling through time instead of Barry Allen.

Something which was a bit rubbish - the title of the movie.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Bloo on Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:01 pm

I don't know if it was because my expectations were so high or because I wasn't sitting there looking for Ester Eggs, but seeing it a 2nd time was MUCH more enjoyable.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby so sorry on Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Bloo wrote:I don't know if it was because my expectations were so high or because I wasn't sitting there looking for Ester Eggs, but seeing it a 2nd time was MUCH more enjoyable.


You and Hårry both...his first review wasn't good, his second viewing/review was glowing with praise!
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Maui on Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:45 pm

so sorry wrote:You and Hårry both...his first review wasn't good, his second viewing/review was glowing with praise!


How does that work exactly?? Did his evil twin do the second review?
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby so sorry on Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:14 am

Maui wrote:
so sorry wrote:You and Hårry both...his first review wasn't good, his second viewing/review was glowing with praise!


How does that work exactly?? Did his evil twin do the second review?


Real simple: Hårry didn't want to give it a negative review, so his first review was confusing. It took a second viewing for him to justify and rationalize why everything really was great (even though clearly it wasn't).
If it takes two viewing for a movie to "work", then hasn't it failed? And no, I don't mean box office failure. I'm totally on board with multiple viewing and seeing certain aspects in a new light (or catching shit you missed the first time around), but I see something the first time and it sucks, I can't image the second time I see it it comes out completely different.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Al Shut on Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:23 am

In theory you might be right.

In reality, all I know is that I absolutely disliked the first time I saw it and I have no idea why. Only on second viewing I found it funny from start to finish.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby so sorry on Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:48 am

Al Shut wrote:In theory you might be right.

In reality, all I know is that I absolutely disliked the first time I saw it and I have no idea why. Only on second viewing I found it funny from start to finish.



Why would you go see it again if you absolutely disliked it the first time?
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Al Shut on Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:38 pm

I couldn't remember to safe my life. I do know it was a bargain VHS I bought without knowing the movie, I must have been really desperate for something I haven't already seen a billion times when I rewatched it.

edit - I'm not encouraging anyone to watch movies they disliked again, I'm just saying miracles can happen.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheBaxter on Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:38 pm

Al Shut wrote:I couldn't remember to safe my life. I do know it was a bargain VHS I bought without knowing the movie, I must have been really desperate for something I haven't already seen a billion times when I rewatched it.

edit - I'm not encouraging anyone to watch movies they disliked again, I'm just saying miracles can happen.


BvS:DoJ is already out on VHS in germany? man, those chinese pirates got nothing on the germans.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Bloo on Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:27 am

My issues with the film still stand, but somehow, I don't think I am justifying the film, but I found I enjoyed it more the second time.

I don't know if I'll go for a third viewing, that all said.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheButcher on Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:35 am

Latino Review:
Mario-Francisco Robles wrote:Dear Zack Snyder,

I’ve had two weeks to think about your most recent film, “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.” As a longtime fan of these characters, and a devout follower of Superman in particular, I’ve found both of your films about him to be lacking the kinds of qualities that have made him resonate with fans around the world for nearly 80 years.

I recall an interview you gave several years ago, while promoting “Watchmen,” where you were asked if you’d be interested in directing a film about Superman. Your answer then? To paraphrase: “No.” You stated that a character with such seemingly one-dimensional goodness didn’t appeal to you. You were far happier dealing with more complex, more subversive subject material like “Watchmen.” I respected that. I disagreed about Superman being simplistic and one-dimensional, but I respected that.

Then you took the “Man of Steel” job a couple of years later.

Needless to say, I was perplexed by this decision of yours- to take on a film about a character that you admittedly didn’t care all that much for. I assumed what did it for you was the opportunity to rebuild and remake the character in a way that did speak to you.

I’m writing to inform you that the version of Superman you’ve created is a failure.

By and large, the folks I’ve spoken to who enjoyed your two films about him have something in common with you: They didn’t really have an affinity for the character prior to your films. So, in essence, it's like you've made Superman films that aren’t for Superman fans. While that may have sounded appealing, the idea of bringing new people into the fandom, the unintended consequence is that you’ve alienated many of the people who were already there.

For two-thirds of a century, writers have been able to create indelible versions of the character that captured the imaginations of fans worldwide. Be it Schuster and Siegel, Bruce Timm, Max Fleischer, Richard Donner, Mark Waid, Jack Kirby, Grant Morrison, Dan Jurgens, or countless others, there have been many people who’ve gotten it right and didn’t feel the need to fundamentally change who Superman is.

There have been many great takes on Superman, but I'm going to isolate the single most influential one. The one that made a generation of fans believe a man can fly.

Much has been made about how the Christopher Reeve Superman of the 70s and 80s would never fly with today’s modern audiences. The thing is, many- including you- have ignored what made that version so special to fans.

People like to focus on the corniness, the wholesomeness, and the humor in those films, but they don’t seem to realize that none of that is why they worked. Why they worked was that behind Reeve’s comforting smile were eyes that conveyed a bittersweet sense of loneliness, vulner ability, and isolation.

While you couldn’t pierce his skin, you could certainly break his heart.

That’s what makes Superman special. He’s an orphan. He’s alone. He’ll never be one of us, yet he’ll also never be able to be a true Kryptonian since there’s no longer any Krypton to speak of. Faced with a destiny that means he’ll never truly belong anywhere, he makes the decision to be earth’s greatest hero. Imagine the deep sadness you’d feel if you spent most of your formative years simply wanting to live a normal life: Work the farm for your folks, make your dad proud of you, play football, kiss the girl. Then you suddenly find out that not only will you never be able to do those things, but you’re actually an alien from a destroyed world. Your life up until now has been a beautiful lie.

A man that can come from that level of heartbreak, who can still arrive at the decision to be a beacon of hope, and who wants to help us- in spite of ourselves- is a fascinating character. Reeve’s Superman had that mixture of kindness, sadness, the weight of his responsibilities, a genuine curiosity about mankind, a love for what we can be, and a desire to be a friend to us even when all we seem to want to do is nuke each other.

So when we talk about those films getting Superman right, we’re not saying that we want a campy real estate mogul Lex Luthor, a cartoonish oaf like Otis, a bumbling over-the-top slapstick portrayal of Clark Kent, or a giant plastic Superman S that can be used as a net in the new films. We’re saying we want a hero that decides to do great things, and does so with pride, despite all of the pain in his heart. That’s what a hero does. You’ve instead chosen to focus almost entirely on the pain, and the weight of his responsibility.

While other artists have given us a hero whose desire to help is bittersweet, you've given us an alien that comes off as simply bitter.

The sad part is that there’ve been glimpses of a more noble Kal-El in your two films. Yet, by and large, you’ve suffocated his more positive qualities with your decisions from the director’s chair. You’ve under-emphasized what makes Superman great, while shining a spotlight on what you seem to think makes him “cool" to the kinds of people who think Superman is boring.

So many iterations of the character have embraced what a powerful symbol for good Superman is.

There are plenty of badass anti-hero types out there for fans who don't care for Superman to follow. Stop trying to turn Superman into one of them.

When I decried “Man of Steel,” many folks told me that the character was a work in progress in that film. I was promised that we’d see the real Superman, the genuine hero, in 2016 when “Batman v Superman” came out. The sad part is, it looks like this year I will see the crusader that still stands for Truth, Justice, and The American Way; The hero who’s old-fashioned sense of Right and Wrong often puts him at odds with the world around him; The man who’s unbreakable will pits him against his own allies; The guy who’s not afraid to be seen as square in an increasingly cynical world, because that’s just who he is. But his name won’t be Clark Kent. It’ll be Steve Rogers.

Yes, the folks at Marvel somehow magically figured out a way to make their Boy Scout character work, while you’ve gone and turned Superman into Batman-Lite. That’s a shame, because you are currently the custodian of one of the greatest fictional characters ever created, and you’re squandering him. It's also a shame because I didn't grow up loving Captain America, but now I have no choice but to root for him since he's seemingly the closest I'll get to seeing Superman on the big screen.

All fans such as myself can hope for is that you decide to start emphasizing more of what makes him an inspiration and less on how conflicted and distrustful you think he should be. We've awarded your two Superman films with mediocre-to-terrible reviews, and your second one has failed to live up to its box office promise- yet you may still be blind to what you're doing wrong.

People love seeing heroes be heroic; Not brooding about what it means to be a hero, or if humanity deserves a champion like Superman. At a time when our world is so fractured, and so filled with terror, we need a hero that wants to lift our spirits and say, "It's going to be okay. You can do this." Let Batman be the dark, conflicted hero, and just please allow Superman to be the guiding light in a murky, complex world.

The world needs Superman, and you've been keeping him from us.

Sincerely,

A Friend
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Peven on Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:58 am

that was pathetic. "the world needs Superman and you have been keeping him from us"?? did they write that while wearing their Superman underaroos? while drinking out of their special Superman sippy cup? no wonder Trump is doing so well when we have dweebs like this with no perspective on life, i bet this deluded little douchebag thinks the Donald will bring back American greatness, too.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Fried Gold on Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:27 am

Yeah, that didn't sound whiny and ridiculous at all.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheBaxter on Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:21 pm

well, he's definitely wrong about one thing. i've never had an affinity for the character of Superman (outside of the christopher reeve version, which makes me less of a Superman fan and more of a Christopher-Reeve-as-Superman fan), and i still don't like zack snyder's version either. well, at least not the one i've seen, i've still yet to see BMvsSM.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Fievel on Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:28 pm

Peven wrote:that was pathetic. "the world needs Superman and you have been keeping him from us"?? did they write that while wearing their Superman underaroos? while drinking out of their special Superman sippy cup? no wonder Trump is doing so well when we have dweebs like this with no perspective on life, i bet this deluded little douchebag thinks the Donald will bring back American greatness, too.


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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Ribbons on Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:08 pm

In the past couple of weeks I've alternately heard that those who hated BvS and those who loved BvS are responsible for the rise of Donald Trump, and for all sorts of reasons. Trump is like the new Hitler. ...on the Internet, I mean. Hopefully not, you know, actually.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby bastard_robo on Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:21 pm

TheButcher wrote:Latino Review:
Mario-Francisco Robles wrote:Dear Zack Snyder,

I’ve had two weeks to think about your most recent film, “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.” As a longtime fan of these characters, and a devout follower of Superman in particular, I’ve found both of your films about him to be lacking the kinds of qualities that have made him resonate with fans around the world for nearly 80 years.

I recall an interview you gave several years ago, while promoting “Watchmen,” where you were asked if you’d be interested in directing a film about Superman. Your answer then? To paraphrase: “No.” You stated that a character with such seemingly one-dimensional goodness didn’t appeal to you. You were far happier dealing with more complex, more subversive subject material like “Watchmen.” I respected that. I disagreed about Superman being simplistic and one-dimensional, but I respected that.

Then you took the “Man of Steel” job a couple of years later.

Needless to say, I was perplexed by this decision of yours- to take on a film about a character that you admittedly didn’t care all that much for. I assumed what did it for you was the opportunity to rebuild and remake the character in a way that did speak to you.

I’m writing to inform you that the version of Superman you’ve created is a failure.

By and large, the folks I’ve spoken to who enjoyed your two films about him have something in common with you: They didn’t really have an affinity for the character prior to your films. So, in essence, it's like you've made Superman films that aren’t for Superman fans. While that may have sounded appealing, the idea of bringing new people into the fandom, the unintended consequence is that you’ve alienated many of the people who were already there.

For two-thirds of a century, writers have been able to create indelible versions of the character that captured the imaginations of fans worldwide. Be it Schuster and Siegel, Bruce Timm, Max Fleischer, Richard Donner, Mark Waid, Jack Kirby, Grant Morrison, Dan Jurgens, or countless others, there have been many people who’ve gotten it right and didn’t feel the need to fundamentally change who Superman is.

There have been many great takes on Superman, but I'm going to isolate the single most influential one. The one that made a generation of fans believe a man can fly.

Much has been made about how the Christopher Reeve Superman of the 70s and 80s would never fly with today’s modern audiences. The thing is, many- including you- have ignored what made that version so special to fans.

People like to focus on the corniness, the wholesomeness, and the humor in those films, but they don’t seem to realize that none of that is why they worked. Why they worked was that behind Reeve’s comforting smile were eyes that conveyed a bittersweet sense of loneliness, vulner ability, and isolation.

While you couldn’t pierce his skin, you could certainly break his heart.

That’s what makes Superman special. He’s an orphan. He’s alone. He’ll never be one of us, yet he’ll also never be able to be a true Kryptonian since there’s no longer any Krypton to speak of. Faced with a destiny that means he’ll never truly belong anywhere, he makes the decision to be earth’s greatest hero. Imagine the deep sadness you’d feel if you spent most of your formative years simply wanting to live a normal life: Work the farm for your folks, make your dad proud of you, play football, kiss the girl. Then you suddenly find out that not only will you never be able to do those things, but you’re actually an alien from a destroyed world. Your life up until now has been a beautiful lie.

A man that can come from that level of heartbreak, who can still arrive at the decision to be a beacon of hope, and who wants to help us- in spite of ourselves- is a fascinating character. Reeve’s Superman had that mixture of kindness, sadness, the weight of his responsibilities, a genuine curiosity about mankind, a love for what we can be, and a desire to be a friend to us even when all we seem to want to do is nuke each other.

So when we talk about those films getting Superman right, we’re not saying that we want a campy real estate mogul Lex Luthor, a cartoonish oaf like Otis, a bumbling over-the-top slapstick portrayal of Clark Kent, or a giant plastic Superman S that can be used as a net in the new films. We’re saying we want a hero that decides to do great things, and does so with pride, despite all of the pain in his heart. That’s what a hero does. You’ve instead chosen to focus almost entirely on the pain, and the weight of his responsibility.

While other artists have given us a hero whose desire to help is bittersweet, you've given us an alien that comes off as simply bitter.

The sad part is that there’ve been glimpses of a more noble Kal-El in your two films. Yet, by and large, you’ve suffocated his more positive qualities with your decisions from the director’s chair. You’ve under-emphasized what makes Superman great, while shining a spotlight on what you seem to think makes him “cool" to the kinds of people who think Superman is boring.

So many iterations of the character have embraced what a powerful symbol for good Superman is.

There are plenty of badass anti-hero types out there for fans who don't care for Superman to follow. Stop trying to turn Superman into one of them.

When I decried “Man of Steel,” many folks told me that the character was a work in progress in that film. I was promised that we’d see the real Superman, the genuine hero, in 2016 when “Batman v Superman” came out. The sad part is, it looks like this year I will see the crusader that still stands for Truth, Justice, and The American Way; The hero who’s old-fashioned sense of Right and Wrong often puts him at odds with the world around him; The man who’s unbreakable will pits him against his own allies; The guy who’s not afraid to be seen as square in an increasingly cynical world, because that’s just who he is. But his name won’t be Clark Kent. It’ll be Steve Rogers.

Yes, the folks at Marvel somehow magically figured out a way to make their Boy Scout character work, while you’ve gone and turned Superman into Batman-Lite. That’s a shame, because you are currently the custodian of one of the greatest fictional characters ever created, and you’re squandering him. It's also a shame because I didn't grow up loving Captain America, but now I have no choice but to root for him since he's seemingly the closest I'll get to seeing Superman on the big screen.

All fans such as myself can hope for is that you decide to start emphasizing more of what makes him an inspiration and less on how conflicted and distrustful you think he should be. We've awarded your two Superman films with mediocre-to-terrible reviews, and your second one has failed to live up to its box office promise- yet you may still be blind to what you're doing wrong.

People love seeing heroes be heroic; Not brooding about what it means to be a hero, or if humanity deserves a champion like Superman. At a time when our world is so fractured, and so filled with terror, we need a hero that wants to lift our spirits and say, "It's going to be okay. You can do this." Let Batman be the dark, conflicted hero, and just please allow Superman to be the guiding light in a murky, complex world.

The world needs Superman, and you've been keeping him from us.

Sincerely,


A Friend


More reason to hate Latino Review (they generated half of the bullshit rumors regarding the film, per screen rants own admission of running a bunch of bs rumors in their rumor round up of the film)

There really is no definitive superman as there is no definitive version of many dc characters as they've been around for nearly a century. If you ask me, the definitive versions of any of these characters are the Timm/Dini/Burnett versions. And Superman wasn't no smiling boy scout in those shows. Everyone looks at that Man of Steel comicl splash page from the mid 80s of Superman smiling point to that as "yeah, that's superman". In the 90's he was a mullet sporting semi stick in the mud. In the 50's he's a cartoon character. Personally, I think Zack Snyder's take on what the would would do if there was someone who fit a lot of religious Messianic descriptions showed up, proved we weren't the only game in the galaxy is pretty spot on. The best thing about both MOS and BVS was people trying to come to terms with a guy who's nearly godlike, show himself doesn't see himself in that way. Superman is still figuring out how to be superman. Thats my one jive with the Marvels films is that they take 10 minutes, they become who they are and just move on. Now I love the marvel films, I love em. But there are times, for films that, well, were trying to stay grounded that no one in the films raises their hand and asks why is there a giant green man running around. The character kinda just start being the characters. Or in Iron Man's case, Tony stark in a robo suit. But that works for them. I don't want the DC films to be like the Marvel films and BVS delivered on that in many ways for me. I just don't get the hate. Everyone sucked the dick of the Nolan films for their grit, and when this film came along, all of a sudden, that's no longer wanted.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheBaxter on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:24 pm

Ribbons wrote:In the past couple of weeks I've alternately heard that those who hated BvS and those who loved BvS are responsible for the rise of Donald Trump, and for all sorts of reasons. Trump is like the new Hitler. ...on the Internet, I mean. Hopefully not, you know, actually.


c'mon, we all know who's really responsible for the rise of Donald Trump.


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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Maui on Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:37 pm

so sorry wrote: I'm totally on board with multiple viewing and seeing certain aspects in a new light (or catching shit you missed the first time around), but I see something the first time and it sucks, I can't image the second time I see it it comes out completely different.


Agreed.

I really thought this movie was going to be bad but it's a fairly decent flick. Sure there are flaws but it held my interest to the very end. I won't continue watching something if it's bad, just how I roll - time is to precious to waste it on crappy films.

Ben Affleck as Batman. He just didn't click for me.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Ribbons on Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:38 pm

I really liked the first hour or so of this. Some people have taken issue with how Batman and Superman are portrayed, but I'm not super-concerned with faithfulness as long as the characters are recognizable, which they were here. To me it makes a lot of sense to have a global situation where there's a lot of suspicion and resentment directed towards those in power, be it a country or an alien, and the movie makes that connection early and often. I could pick out at least half a dozen lines that resonated with me -- "ignorance is not the same as innocence," Alfred's speech about powerlessness, etc. It's a bold move but I found the moral murkiness provocative and I was along for the ride.

It's once the plot starts to unfold that things fall apart. Wonder Woman seems to be keeping a close watch over Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor. You might think she was just as wary of these two powerful Men as they are of Superman, but it turns out she just wants an old photograph back. Much has been made of the "YouTube videos" that we're forced to watch of the upcoming DC movies smack dab in the middle of this one, which is tedious and hilarious at the same time, thanks to the bombastic music that plays in the background. And finally, the much-touted title match isn't so much an ideological split as it is a series of contrivances and misunderstandings. None of this is automatically terrible, and besides for the previews it didn't bother me, but the beginning seemed to promise something more that quickly evaporated. All the talk of gods and mortals didn't amount to much in the end.

As much as I like to pick on Zack Snyder for being a stupid douchey doucheface, I can't lay BvS's shortcomings at his feet. Most of the stuff that didn't work about it are clearly studio mandates, straight down the pike. I can only imagine what a nightmare it is for any filmmaker to have to shoot clips for other franchises and cram them right in the middle of the story, but WBs gotta WB, so in they go. Really, his knack for gorgeous visuals and action is the only thing that made the movie passably entertaining. There's a scene near the end where Batman single-handedly takes down a warehouse full of goons and it's got to be one of the coolest fight sequences I've ever seen, in anything (yes, he does kill people in it, so your mileage may vary). We're a far cry from Tim Burton's Batman, who couldn't even move his neck. But Snyder's interests and Warner Brothers' interests are struggling against each other here. I know the movie is already pretty long, but I wonder if critics will be kinder to the Director's Cut. It feels like there's a lot of connective tissue that is missing from the final edit.

Finally, no Dawn of Justice review would be complete without mentioning Lex Luthor. I said I didn't hate the movie? Well, I hated Luthor. Jesse Eisenberg's performance is aggressively awful, but the character's problems go way deeper than that. You have no idea what his motivation is from scene to scene (other than "this guy is crazy and hates Superman"). You have no idea how someone so unhinged and self-destructive somehow made it this long without being jailed or hospitalized. You don't even know what the hell he does for a living. Everything about Lex Luthor is a disaster, with the low point probably being the infamous jar of piss. I don't know what Warner's plans are for the DCEU, but I'm hoping he's left in his jail cell and ignored.

Anyway, Batman v. Superman is not as bad as its Tomatometer makes it seem. If you've any interest in the characters you should see it, for the action if nothing else. I'm not a huge fan of either myself and even I got a kick seeing the two of them together onscreen.
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Peven on Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:55 pm

who thinks that Suicide Squad can help the image of BvS and the DC cinaverse if it is good in the aftermath of what seems to be a concerted effort in the media to slash and burn what has been done so far?
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Re: The Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Ribbons on Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:30 pm

As far as "slashing and burning" goes: the media was never going to stop the DC train, and I think they know that. Regardless of whether a given movie underperforms, there's just too much money to be made from superheroes for WB not to make them (and in a weird lesson in the peculiarities of Hollywood economics, BvS making less money than anticipated has resulted in WB doubling down on comic book movies and making less of everything else, because they would rather bet big and lose than bet small and win). The success or failure of one picture over another might result in small detail changes, like which characters pop up more often or which franchises get sequels, but probably not the larger plan.

I think what'll happen if Suicide Squad does well and has that similar mature, Nolan feel that the DC movies have had so far, they'll probably stick with that going forward. If not or if it also gets criticized for being too "dark" in places, they might try a tonal overhaul where the next slate of properties going into production have -- if not a light/"popcorn" vibe -- some kind of new template.
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Re: Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Peven on Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:49 pm

there are properties and directors that are repeat targets for the entertainment media, which is very cliquish, and BvS had both Affleck and Snyder, both of which are favorite whipping boys, and D.C. which is almost always getting the short end of the stick in coverage because it is being covered is being by a group that is young and more predisposed toward Marvel overall. BvS is a flawed movie but but not as bad as the coverage has made it out to be, imo, there has been overkill in the criticism as well as a herd mentality assuredness of some writers who take the reader's disdain toward the movie for granted when referring to it in an article. that is my take, anyway, as a relative outsider when it comes to the current comic world and the whole D.C vs Marvel scene


I agree with Ribbons that if "Suicide Squad" does well that they will just follow suit with whatever tone that movie strikes in the future for the Batman related movies, and maybe even the Aquaman movie, but they will brighten it up for the Justice League, nice and shiny like the Avengers
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Re: Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheButcher on Mon May 02, 2016 11:17 am

THR:
Box Office: The Verdict for 'Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice'
The tentpole is almost at the end of its run at the worldwide box office, where it's the No. 7 superhero movie of all time to date, not accounting for inflation; in North America, though, it won't catch up with 'Deadpool.'
Pamela McClintock wrote:The verdict is in: Zack Snyder's Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice will end up as the No. 7 comic book movie of all time at the worldwide box office to date, not accounting for inflation.

Through Sunday, BvS — which is all but done with its run — has grossed $862.9 million globally, including $325.1 million in North America (37.7 percent of its total) and $537.8 million internationally (62.3 percent). It's likely to finish up in the $875 million range when all is said and done, not enough to change the order.

The picture is different in North America, where BvS currently ranks as the No. 11 comic book movie, again not accounting for inflation. It could overtake Guardians of the Galaxy ($333.2 million) to rank as No. 10, and possibly Spider-Man 3 ($336.5 million), but it won't catch up with the recent Deadpool ($361.8 million). Overseas, it's the No. 7 superhero title.

In terms of 2016 titles to date, BvS trails behind Disney's Zootopia, ($931.4 million and counting).

Since BvS' launch in late March, there's been plenty of debate about the movie's performance, and its steep drop-off following a record-breaking opening of $166 million domestically, a best for the month of March.

Warner Bros. is steadfast in proclaiming the tentpole, starring Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill, an enormous victory, saying it successfully launches the DC cinematic universe. (The next outing is director David Ayer's Suicide Squad on Aug. 5., while Snyder is in the midst of shooting the first Justice League.)

BvS, costing at least $225 million to produce before marketing, has grossed notably more than Snyder's Man of Steel, which first introduced Cavill as the newest superman. Released in 2013, Man of Steel took in $668 million globally and $291 million domestically.

"This is fantastic result, by any measure," said Warner Bros. domestic distribution chief Jeff Goldstein.

Some box-office analysts are more circumspect, noting that Dawn of Justice won't get to $900 million, much less $1 billion.

"Still, outside of Christopher Nolan's two Dark Knight movies, and Tim Burton's Batman films when you adjust for inflation, this is the highest-grossing property in DC's bullpen thus far. It tops Man of Steel by more than $200 million," says analyst Jeff Bock. "So yes, BvS successfully relaunched DC's cinematic universe, but they are nowhere near Disney/Marvel in terms of critical reception and box office prowess. One can only hope that bigger and better is still on the way."

Another insider says to become a member of the billion dollar club requires "a great release date, great reviews and solid social media buzz," a trifecta BvS failed to achieve.

BvS was originally supposed to open May 6, but relocated to the Easter corridor when it was revealed that Captain America: Civil War would open on the first weekend in May.

Inquisitr:
Zack Snyder On The Outs With DC, Warner: New ‘Justice League’ Boss Could Be Coming
Aric Mitchell wrote:While the rumored-to-cost $450 million for shooting and marketing BvS fared better at the box office in terms of pure gross, it did the vast majority of its business in its opening weekend and crashed hard among a sea of bad critiques from both professional film critics and movie audiences alike.
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Re: Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Ribbons on Wed May 04, 2016 2:03 pm

Fried Gold, is this you?

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Re: Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby TheButcher on Sun May 22, 2016 3:04 am

Variety MAY 21, 2016:
Jungle Book is set to join Zootopia in passing Batman v. Superman at U.S. box office.

Deadline:
Anthony D'Alessandro wrote: Who the heck ever had the foresight to predict that the Jon Favreau movie would be putting up double digit weekends at this point in time? Jungle Book is poised to make $11.3M this weekend in fourth place, taking its stateside cume to $327.8M, becoming the highest grossing Favreau-directed movie of all-time at the domestic B.O., drowning his previous high, Marvel’s Iron Man ($318.4M).
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Re: Batman v. Superman: DAWN OF JUSTICE!!! (seriously)

Postby Fievel on Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:35 am

I just watched the Ultimate Edition.
I did not see the theatrical version...and I don't plan, either.
This version was very entertaining.
It was extremely long, and really felt it at times....but it was still a very entertaining film.
Maybe the sun will come out in the next film and restore bright colors to the world, but I'm not counting on it.
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