Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:23 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
TheBaxter wrote:are hackers, bots and trolls bringing down TLJ's rotten tomatoes score?

looks like at least some of the people bitching and whining about the movie are the same people who complained about a "black stormtrooper" in TFA, about having a female character as the lead, about having female ghostbusters, about having a black female star trek lead, and basically anything they perceive as overly PC or progressive in the entertainment industry. i don't think it's too hard to figure out who these people are... the same dumbass redditors and youtube commenters and other horrible people who hide behind their anonymous online identities to spread their diseased neanderthal souls across the internet. obviously not everyone who dislikes this movie belongs to that group, just like not everyone who hated the new ghostbusters (see: me) was a racist, sexist troll. but anyone who uses the term SJW in a movie review or, basically, anywhere, is an asshole. and as far as those people go i stand by my original statement: they should be fucked up the ass with a lightsaber dildo.

it's not hard to see why those kinds of people would dislike this film. whatever political leanings were evident in TFA and rogue one are even more obvious here. and the First Order is basically the alt-right in outer space. so a film with pro-immigrant, pro-diversity, anti-war and anti-profiteering undercurrents (even going so far as to introduce a bunch of cute penguin-aliens to turn chewie into a vegetarian), it's no surprise it doesn't sit well with them. well, let me scan my terminator display for a proper response... oh, there it is: fuck you, asshole! maybe SW wasn't always as blatant in it's progressive leanings as ST (or almost all sci-fi, for that matter) but even the OT had plenty of forward-thinking elements. it was always about the little guy beating back against the big oppressive forces of evil (even when it had to resort to crap like ewoks to drive the point home). princess leia was the progenitor for other strong female characters in sci-fi(ish) films like ripley and sarah conner and... well, there aren't a whole lot of others but that's changing now, and all these guys who apparently derive their masculinity from seeing white male characters dominate geek films are just gonna have to deal with that. or complain about it on twitter and facebook, whatever. if you don't like it, how about you start your own white male self-masturbatory sci-fi franchise to soothe your fragile ego? or better yet, just make another version of The Fountainhead for all the rest of us to ignore.


Hmmm, you see, it's posts like this that hit back with such aggression and rudeness without taking a civil approach to these disagreeing people, not matter how immature they may be too, that go against not just ethics of behaviour towards people, but is also against the spirit of 'No Hate Just Debate' of this forum.

Quite frankly, TheBaxter, talk like this ("Fuck you fuck your ass fuck off and if you don't like it let's see you do better" Oh God) cant can get you banned from here, and should.


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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:42 pm

I'm still waiting on the result of my other post propositioning we ban TheButcher first.

No wait...!!
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:44 pm

something that has occurred to me while mulling over this movie is how easy it is judged compared to other material. for instance, the first couple J.J.Abrams Star Trek movies got ripped badly for riffing off of earlier Star Trek movies. meanwhile, Episode VII and Episode VIII have both borrowed heavily from earlier SW movies and yet i don't see any real criticism of that at all. even though there are mostly new characters introduced in the new SW continuity with VII and VIII they just keep going through the same cycle, the same roles filled with different faces, instead of allowing the new characters to have their own arc taking the story in an original direction we are getting yet another rehash of the basic story presented in the OT 35 years ago. :? :roll:
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:54 pm

Peven wrote:something that has occurred to me while mulling over this movie is how easy it is judged compared to other material. for instance, the first couple J.J.Abrams Star Trek movies got ripped badly for riffing off of earlier Star Trek movies. meanwhile, Episode VII and Episode VIII have both borrowed heavily from earlier SW movies and yet i don't see any real criticism of that at all. even though there are mostly new characters introduced in the new SW continuity with VII and VIII they just keep going through the same cycle, the same roles filled with different faces, instead of allowing the new characters to have their own arc taking the story in an original direction we are getting yet another rehash of the basic story presented in the OT 35 years ago. :? :roll:


really? i'd count the number of Force Awakens reviews that complained about it being a rehash of Ep IV, or how Rey was too similar to Luke (dissatisfied kid on a desert planet dreaming of a better life), or how Starkiller Base was basically just another, bigger Death Star, including my own comments... but i don't have the rest of my life to count them. if you never saw that criticism, you must have had a lens flare in your eye or something.

and there's been plenty of comment of how Last Jedi borrows from Eps V and VI. for instance, my own comments mentioned how Rey's storyline is basically identical to Luke's from TESB, and how Luke is now the Obi-Wan figure. and other people have mentioned the way Rey abandoning her training to rush off and try to redeem Kylo Ren mirrors Luke rushing off to face Vader and bring him back from the dark side.

i think the difference between TFA and TLJ is that, in TFA, it seemed to be basically aping the original, copying and repeating parts of that film, whereas TLJ takes those familiar events and puts new and surprising twists on them. instead of Luke being mentored and trained by wise, old jedi from the past, Rey is trained by a Jedi who has become disillusioned with the Jedi altogether. instead of Luke turning Vader from the dark side, Rey's attempt to turn Kylo actually pushes him even further into the dark. and instead of the force-sensitive kid from the desert planet turning out to be the child of the most powerful Jedi ever, this film's force-sensitive desert planet kid's parents were just a bunch of nobodies.

there's still plenty of new and original parts to this film, but the parts that do borrow from the previous films are at least more successful by changing them enough to be different.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Fievel on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:15 pm

TheBaxter wrote:i think the difference between TFA and TLJ is that, in TFA, it seemed to be basically aping the original, copying and repeating parts of that film, whereas TLJ takes those familiar events and puts new and surprising twists on them. instead of Luke being mentored and trained by wise, old jedi from the past, Rey is trained by a Jedi who has become disillusioned with the Jedi altogether. instead of Luke turning Vader from the dark side, Rey's attempt to turn Kylo actually pushes him even further into the dark. and instead of the force-sensitive kid from the desert planet turning out to be the child of the most powerful Jedi ever, this film's force-sensitive desert planet kid's parents were just a bunch of nobodies.

there's still plenty of new and original parts to this film, but the parts that do borrow from the previous films are at least more successful by changing them enough to be different.



This all plays into the Ring Theory behind the Star Wars films - (TLDR - all the Star Wars films ape each other, and it's intentional)
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:04 pm

yeah i'm familiar with Lucas' whole "the films don't repeat but they rhyme" idea for the prequels. the jedi's still out on whether that's artistry or laziness.

i think the new films are a bit different, because it's not Lucas' vision anymore. they might still use the rhyming excuse, but Starkiller Base was such a blatant and unoriginal lift from the Death Star, that it doesn't really matter whether it's intentional or not, an attempt at poetry or just a lack of new ideas, because it's a bad idea either way. i think the similarities in Last Jedi (and the twists on those similarities) were definitely intentional, and more successful as well, but i think that's because it was the film Rian Johnson wanted to make, not because he was trying to continue or build on Lucas' ideas of rhyme and repetition in the series.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:24 pm

it's still driving around a track, step on the gas and turn left. it is a successful way to write a series like this because it plays into nostalgia, it's flipping all those "happy" switches that were established with an earlier pleasurable movie experience instead of creating new ones. it doesn't ask as much from viewers as original stories do, and it doesn't ask as much from the writers either because it's a template to work from where you can copy and paste together a movie that fits within that template. we're on our third lap around this track, the third use of this template. Rogue One is my favorite SW movie. hands down. not even close. the reason why is because it isn't part of that track or template. it was a NEW journey.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Fried Gold on Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:08 pm

TheBaxter wrote:

i think the difference between TFA and TLJ is that, in TFA, it seemed to be basically aping the original, copying and repeating parts of that film, whereas TLJ takes those familiar events and puts new and surprising twists on them.

The Last Jedi essentially copies parts of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi but without the same satisfying continuity of narrative or character development. There are no surprising twists. It may be trying to subvert expectation, but the conclusions reached are very much blunt ends.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:49 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mark-hamill-rips-role-apos-145123576.html

seems Mark Hamill agrees with me on my take that the Luke from Last Jedi is not the Luke from the OT....


I can't to read on here why Mark Hamill doesn't know what he is talking about with Luke :lol: :roll:
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby thomasgaffney on Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:03 pm

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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:19 pm

there's nobody crying, just evaluating a movie like any other movie, instead of being a little asskissing fanboy who slurps up anything that is thrown our way..... :D
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Wolfpack on Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:41 pm

Peven wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/mark-hamill-rips-role-apos-145123576.html

seems Mark Hamill agrees with me on my take that the Luke from Last Jedi is not the Luke from the OT....


I can't to read on here why Mark Hamill doesn't know what he is talking about with Luke :lol: :roll:


I wouldn't expect him to be the same Luke after 30 years.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:11 pm

Wolfpack wrote:
Peven wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/mark-hamill-rips-role-apos-145123576.html

seems Mark Hamill agrees with me on my take that the Luke from Last Jedi is not the Luke from the OT....


I can't to read on here why Mark Hamill doesn't know what he is talking about with Luke :lol: :roll:


I wouldn't expect him to be the same Luke after 30 years.


why
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Wolfpack on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:26 pm

Peven wrote:
Wolfpack wrote:
Peven wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/mark-hamill-rips-role-apos-145123576.html

seems Mark Hamill agrees with me on my take that the Luke from Last Jedi is not the Luke from the OT....


I can't to read on here why Mark Hamill doesn't know what he is talking about with Luke :lol: :roll:


I wouldn't expect him to be the same Luke after 30 years.


why


Things change, people evolve, lessons are learned and forgot, time marches on. Are you the same person you were 30 years ago? I'm not the same person was in kindergarten.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:21 pm

Wolfpack wrote:
Peven wrote:
Wolfpack wrote:
Peven wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/mark-hamill-rips-role-apos-145123576.html

seems Mark Hamill agrees with me on my take that the Luke from Last Jedi is not the Luke from the OT....


I can't to read on here why Mark Hamill doesn't know what he is talking about with Luke :lol: :roll:


I wouldn't expect him to be the same Luke after 30 years.


why


Things change, people evolve, lessons are learned and forgot, time marches on. Are you the same person you were 30 years ago? I'm not the same person was in kindergarten.



really?? that is the comparison you're going to make? you're not the same that you were in kindergarten? gee, did we leave off with Luke in kindergarten at the end of RotJ?? because THEN that would be a valid comparison. otherwise it is just silly and not at all the issue at hand. we're talking about an adult, who had already undergone a great deal of growth and maturing by the end of RotJ. and fyi, the majority of who you are IS formed by the time you are through kindergarten, which is why good early childhood care is SO important for the future of each generation.
i'm old enough and have seen enough to know that despite the trite, bumper sticker mentality that pervades our culture that yes, people are basically the same people they were 30 years ago. sorry, its not romantic or sentimental or neato, its just the reality of life. rarely do people truly fundamentally change. and then it is moreoften that they change toward the light from the dark, toward hope from hopelessness, not the other way. you are who you are, and for the most part you don't get to choose. try reading up on psychology and the subject of freedom of choice and agency. tell me, what about holding on to hope against all hope that Darth fucking Vader has good in him, despite the advice of everyone around him, and then successfully turning him back to the Light would allow Luke to give up and lose heart, run away from the fight and allow the dark to win???? Luke was always the idealist, always the one who held on to hope and belief when others wavered. and that was BEFORE all that had paid off in "saving" Darth Vader. it makes no sense that a psyche like that would turn weak and feeble after the hope and belief he had held on to his entire life had been proven to be valid and worthy with what happened with Darth Vader.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:52 am

wait, so all those old white guys who voted for Trump were WORSE 30 years ago? damn.
seriously, that sounded like a whole bunch of bullshit. people don't change over 30 years, and if they do, it's only ever for the better.... apparently even if they've been through a traumatic event during those years in which their nephew, who they were trying to teach and guide, turned evil and betrayed them? shit like that tends to affect a person.
i know i'm a different person than 30 years ago. and no i wasn't in kindergarten 30 years ago either. but fuck that. i'm a different person than i was 20 years ago (when i wouldve been about Luke's age in Jedi) or even 10 years ago. or even in the past year, where my faith in humanity has taken a deep and drastic dive. and i've seen other people i've known change over the years, some for the better, some for the worse. to generalize about whether and how people can change is just stupid. because anyone who has actually lived a life and paid attention to the people around them has seen that unless they've been willfully blind to it. i've seen irresponsible people i knew from HS or college who got married, had kids, and got their shit together... i've also seen people who got involved in drugs or some other crap and went downhill. everybody deals with trauma in their lives in different ways. how many happy marriages have been destroyed by the death of a child? how many people have turned to drugs and alcohol after a traumatic event? some people channel that into positive things, getting involved in charity or political causes, and other can't deal with it.
and besides, it's not like Luke's character changed in some fundamental way. he didn't turn to the dark side, or become some kind of evil person. he became disillusioned and gave in to despair after a trauma. and the whole point of Luke's arc in the film is that, deep down, he HADN'T changed. he was just so hurt and damaged by Ben Solo's loss that he buried his pain under a gruff, detached exterior. it took Rey (and ghost Yoda) to knock him out of his rut and uncover the hopefulness and faith in the Force he always had. otherwise, Luke would've just been Obi-Wan 2.0, the wise old man in hiding who never lost his faith. how boring and repetitive would THAT be? zod forbid a SW film actually try to give a character some complexity or an actual emotional journey over the course of a film.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Fievel on Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:54 am

Look, the bottom line is that Luke Skywalker was a walking headcase.

-Starts off as a typical whiney teenager full of hopes and dreams - yet has been told since birth that any talk about his parents is off-limits.
-Finds the charred remains of the only family he's ever known after making bad decisions (removing R2's restraining bold). Survivor's guilt is in effect.
-Luke frees the beautiful woman he saw in the hologram. She gives him a quick kiss for luck as they escape.
-Shortly afterwards, he watches his new mentor be killed by the same person he knows to have killed his father - the legendary monster Darth Vader. He is now alone in the galaxy, traveling with people he just met.
-Strangely, Luke seems more affected by the heroic death of Kenobi than he did after finding the murdered corpses of his aunt and uncle. Maybe it's a combination of the two.
-Luke then displays uncanny piloting skills by blasting Tie Fighters and single-handedly destroying the Death Star (assist from Han) - even though he has never piloted in space before. He begins to hear voices in his head of his dead mentor.
-A ghost of his dead mentor appears to him.
-Luke and Leia share a fairly passionate kiss.
-Yoda's reveal and training further twist his mind. Remember his failure in the caaaave.
-Luke is still over-emotional and immature and leaves his training to help his friends.
-Luke is told by Darth Vader that everything his mentor told him about his father was a lie. Luke is told that the most notorious mass-murderer in the galaxy is actually his father. Oh, and that mass-murderer wants Luke to join him....all this after his newly-revealed dad just cut off his hand.
-And Luke's best friend has been kidnapped. Condition unknown at this point.
NOTE - there is a distinct and obvious change in Luke's demeanor once ROTJ begins. Luke is ridiculously calm throughout the entire movie despite everything above that had previously occurred. Saying "it's because he's a Jedi!" or "he's just older now" just doesn't cover it. You can't go from an over-emotional, impulsive, reckless young man....into a calm and controlled adult just because you changed your clothes and got a new lightsaber. Meditation doesn't cover it, either. No, Luke is holding all of his feelings in.
-The ghost of Luke's dead mentor admits that he did lie about 98% of what he said about Luke's father. And yet Luke is calm.
-Luke is also told that the beautiful woman that he has had feelings for is actually his sister.
-Luke is left with the notion that he must kill his own father now. He believes he can turn a mass-murderer into a good guy again. Imagine if Charles Manson, Adolph Hitler, or Jeffrey Dahmer were on trial....and someone stepped up and said "I believe that there is still good in him!" How would that go? How does history view Manson's followers that still supported him (crazy). How are Hitler colleagues/sympathizers viewed (ridiculously crazy). But it is somehow okay for Luke to stroll around "There's still good in him, I can feel it!"
-Luke appears to release some of those bottled-up feelings in his fight with Vader. The word "rage" easily comes to mind.
-Yeah, Vader tossed the Emperor. But how does that redeem everything he did?

After the Empire fell, one has to assume that Luke found out more about Vader's history - hunting down the remaining Jedi, all of the civilian lives killed. But what if there was still records of Anakin's descent? What if Luke saw the same video of the Younglings being killed that Kenobi and Yoda viewed in ROTS? What if Yoda explained everything that happened? It's easy to assume that he remained in contact with Yoda until he cut himself off from the Force. Point being - what if Luke found out every act that legitimately defined his father as a monster?

How could Luke possibly be mentally sound after all of that? Saying that he was a Jedi or that he could just use the Force doesn't work. By the end of ROTJ, Luke was a mental wreck.

Then add in the part where he watches his own nephew (son of his sister and best friend) stray from his teachings. Knowing what he has felt at various points in his life (conflict between light and dark, conflict knowing who his father was, etc), now he was watching his nephew fall. And then he had that flash - just a flash and then it was gone - where he thought the only way to stop it was to kill Ben. But in that flash Ben saw what Luke was thinking and reacted. Even though Luke had immediately dismissed the thought of killing Ben, it was too late. Ben attacked him and left him for dead. He then slaughtered half of the students and ran off with the other half. Not only were half the students killed, but the other half actually thought that Ben was in the right for doing so. Again, how is Luke supposed to walk away from that and not be affected? Luke failed on multiple levels and it wrecked him even further.

Luke was the victim of tragedy and manipulation, just like his father. And now he is witnessing the same thing happen with his nephew.

I'll admit that there is some speculation written above. But the speculation is shadowed by an enormous amount of facts that were easy to write off because The Rebellion won at the end of ROTJ. It seemed that the happy ending was delivered. But if you look at all the facts and how little many of them were addressed on-screen, it's easy to see how Luke from the Original Trilogy became Luke of the Sequel Trilogy.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:06 pm

I've looked at this in a practical way, and not the rubbish idiocy of what everyone has written above. EVERYONE STOP TALKING SHIT AND READ WHAT I HAVE TO SAY!

Luke's behaviour in this film kinda depends on if Luke thinks he is powerful enough to...

1. Defeat Snoke
2. Defeat Kylo Ren,
3. Or if he should destroy Kylo. As Ben Solo is family, and Luke feels responsible perhaps in destroying Ben and creating Kylo in the first place.
4. Turn Kylo back to the light.
5. Have much effect in defeating The First Order.

I think George Lucas wrote, that Luke is the most powerful Jedi, I believe, ever.

But still gathering what I saw of SW7 & 8, last night I kinda concluded that Luke probably can't do these things. So with the moral conundrum as well as the physical challenge of these things, I kinda see Luke's self exile to be a realistic one.

Then I wake up to read Mark Hamill himself kinda disagreeing with this. Ugh I give up.

... But I get what people are saying though. At the end of the day, the writers' choice to put Luke into this situation does feel underwhelming for such a sci-fi classic powerful Jedi hero.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:22 am

Anakin Skywalker was the most powerful Jedi. he was conceived by midichlorians for chrissakes. he was the 'chosen one' who brought balance to the force... though he did it by destroying the Jedi, then years later, destroying the Sith too by throwing Palpatine down a shaft.

and then that pesky Force fell out of balance again, or took a nap, and had to be awakened, or something.

anyway, Lucas might've said Luke was the most powerful Jedi at some point. but Lucas has said a billion things about Star Wars, including lots of things that contradict other things he's said. he's very much an unreliable narrator when it comes to talking about Star Wars. the only stuff that matters is what we actually see happen in the films. and by that measure, Luke isn't nearly as powerful as the original Jedi. he doesn't have the lightsaber moves that any of the prequel Jedi have. he doesn't have the power to move objects that Yoda has, or to absorb force lightning. if Vader hadn't saved him, the Emperor would've fried him to death... Yoda took that force lightning shit in AOTC and shoved it right back down Dooku's throat.

the full list of Luke's Jedi accomplishments include: making a 'one in a million' shot on the Death Star (something his daddy already did by accident when he was 8 years old); pulling the lightsaber to him, after much struggle and concentration, in the Wampa cave (as opposed to the bazillions of times we've seen other Jedi effortlessly teleport a lightsaber into their hands); doing flips with Yoda on his back; making an X-Wing fighter shake a little bit in a swamp (and then watch in disbelief as Yoda makes it rise completely out of the same swamp); calling out to Leia while hanging onto the bottom of Cloud City for dear life (though it's not clear how much of that is Luke's telepathic power to call Leia vs. Leia's telepathic power to hear him); using the Force to make a couple of pig guards fall over in Jabba's palace; making a 'one in a million' shot on the Rancor gate's open/close button; deflecting a few laser bolts with his lightsaber; getting Force-sensed by Vader and endangering the mission to destroy Death Star 2.0; cutting off Vader's hand (but only after giving in to the dark side and allowing his rage and fear to briefly take over); not puking or laughing after seeing Vader's real face.

and that's about it. not really an impressive list, certainly not compared to the accomplishments of guys like Yoda or Obi-Wan or Anakin. and then in TLJ, even Luke remarks about Rey's power, saying he's only seen that kind of power once before (and he wasn't talking about himself). so even Luke knows he's not the most powerful Jedi.

it's interesting how much revisionist history is going on fanboys hating on Luke's TLJ story based on some rose-color-tinted memory of the OT. the point of the OT was never that Luke was this super powerful Jedi who saved the day. it was everyone in those films, working together to defeat the Empire. Han and Leia and Chewie and R2 and Lando and Wedge and Akbar and Wicket and Porkins and everybody else had just as much to do with it as Luke. Luke was definitely important, maybe the most important, person in the Rebellion but he definitely wasn't the only one who was vital to winning in those films. people need to go back and see just how much (or how little) Luke actually did in those films, especially TESB and ROTJ.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:28 pm

tl;dr for the most part. I get your point.

I think what Lucas meant, and something which we all could see happening too, is that Luke after Return of the Jedi would become X times much more powerful from then on. So I think what Lucas meant, is that Luke would be the most powerful Jedi long after that film.

I tell you what Contradictface, I'll ask him next time I'm working with him on one of his next Star Wars films.

As I know for a fact that he is actually ghost directing 100% of them in reality and JJ and Rian are fake directors, just there to decoy criticism of them their way.

No one should claim they know SW better than me in this place too, as I have BEEN in them.

End discussion. This case, and this thread, is closed.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:23 pm

so, no one sees the magnitude of implications from the revelation about Rey's parents combined with the little kid using the force to grab the broom at the very end of the movie???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

it's like watching chimps trying to figure out how to use a smartphone :-P
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:56 pm

Peven wrote:so, no one sees the magnitude of implications from the revelation about Rey's parents combined with the little kid using the force to grab the broom at the very end of the movie???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

it's like watching chimps trying to figure out how to use a smartphone :-P


you mean the implication that you don't have to be a Skywalker to be powerful in the force? the implication that force-sensitive individuals can be born to anyone, even parents who themselves are not strong in the force?

yeah, other than about a billion reviews of the film, i haven't seen that mentioned anywhere :roll:

it's like watching a chimp congratulate himself for thinking he's smarter than everyone else by pointing out something we all already knew :-P



btw, the idea that force-sensitive individuals can come from nowhere and be born to the most oppressed or downtrodden individuals is not a new idea in Last Jedi. it's actually the entire foundation of the prequels (Anakin Skywalker, born to a slave mother with no force powers, and without a father to boot). not to mention the fact that there are literally hundreds of Jedis in the prequels who WEREN'T skywalkers, or the children of any other Jedi for that matter, thanks to that whole pesky "Jedis can't form attachments, get married, have children, etc." policy. literally every Jedi* (until Luke) came from a non-Jedi parent.





* i'm sure there's some extended universe story about a some Jedi having illegitimate children who become jedi themselves, but that would be a rare exception. generally the point stands.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Wolfpack on Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:14 pm

I, for one, cannot believe someone on the Internet likes different things than me.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby so sorry on Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:40 pm

Finally saw it, can’t wait to dive into the last couple of pages in this thread to see what you all thought, but my initial reaction was a grade of C+...enjoyed the Luke stuff slot, and didn’t like the Princess Leia stuff at all. The plot points, as per usual, were juvenile, but the action was decent. And thank God I peed right before the trailers started.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby bastard_robo on Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:21 pm

I liked it.


There.


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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:06 pm

After avoiding trailers, reviews, and Internet commentary, I finally got around to watching this Monday night.

I could go into detail about the stuff that didn't work for me, like throwing those porg things in there for the sole reason of selling toys and to give Chewie something to yell at now that Han is dead. Or throwing Captain Phasma in there for the sole reason of selling toys and to give Finn somebody to fight for ten seconds. Or throwing General Hux in there so he can overact and be Kylo Ren's punching bag. I could talk about the entire casino planet sideplot and how almost every sequence on that planet felt reminiscent of the prequels, down to the overuse of dodgy CGI and bad child actors. I could talk about Benicio Del Toro, but why bother.

Hell, I could even talk about the worst thing I've ever seen in a STAR WARS movie ever: Leia's mystical magical space flight with lush musical accompaniment, which is neither commented on in the film or explained at all. And it happens seemingly for no reason whatsoever as she literally does nothing for the rest of the film.

But I'm sure we'll find out in the next movie. Oh. Right. Carrie Fisher's fucking dead.

I could nitpick the little things that don't hurt the film overall, but annoyed me. That would be a petty waste of time however, since this film has a fundamental flaw that basically sinks the whole endeavor.

The script sucks. The entire film comes off like bad fan fiction. It is, for lack of a longer word, dumb.

This is a bad film. Not in the ways it deviates from established norms for STAR WARS pictures, but in the ways it deviates from how good movies work.

And there is nothing in this film that demonstrates that point more clearly (or ironically) than something that ISN'T in the film.

There is one line of dialogue missing here (or, rather, it has been misplaced) and the result is a fundamentally broken film.

Why oh why (oh why) (oh WHY) didn't Vice Admiral Hodor just tell the LITERALLY last living Resistance fighters what her plan was FROM THE BEGINNING? Why the hell would you lead these people on the galaxy's longest slowest chase toward what appears to be certain death with no explanation whatsoever....and then act SURPRISED when they mutiny??

This leads to a desperate bad-odds plan involving a huge detour that is ultimately a massive waste of time and resources, which leads to ruining the Resistance escape plan, which leads to horrific loss of life of Resistance fighters (again, the last ones in the galaxy) and renders roughly one-third of this film absolutely fucking pointless.

One line of dialogue would have fixed this whole thing. Hell, Poe Dameron at one point even PLEADS with Vice Admiral Purple-Hair to tell him what the fuck is going on and she answers with some vague bullshit about FAITH?

You are the LEADER OF THE RESISTANCE, motherfucker. Somebody asks you where you're going, you say MINING PLANET. SLIM CHANCE OF SURVIVAL BUT ITS FUCKIN BETTER THAN NOTHING.

Naw, naw. Tell 'em to have FAITH. That won't lead to a mutiny.

I have absolutely no problem with the heroes failing. The whole casino planet subplot ultimately not paying off, I'm fine with. But it fails in such a calculatedly manipulative way that it's basically a deal breaker for me. That is, again, bad writing.

Having a character withhold an absolutely vital piece of information for no other reason than to MAKE THE MOVIE HAPPEN makes no sense. IT IS BAD WRITING. To add insult to injury, the casino planet stuff that happens as a result of that omission is SOME OF THE DUMBEST SHIT IN THE FILM. Did George Lucas have a hand in this? Was this some rejected ATTACK OF THE CLONES shit? Some little frog with a monocle shoving coins into a droid? Riding a bunch of shitty CGI dog-cats through the city like Obi-Wan on a GIANT FUCKING IGUANA?

And Benicio Del Toro's character (okay, so I'm gonna talk about him) was completely pointless here. Ultimately, what does he contribute? He conveniently shows up when the characters need him, even though he clearly doesn't need THEM. He breaks out of jail without their help and apparently could have left whenever he wanted. BB-8 helps him steal a ship, but I'm sure he could have done it himself. He gives Finn a little lesson on moral ambiguity and then sells them out shortly after, then disappears from the film entirely.

So why did we need that character? To give the audience yet another speech about how the galaxy is more complicated than we thought and "good" and "bad" is relative?

Granted, it's not a bad moment, but it's not enough to justify a character who only functions as a plot device. A plot device placed conveniently to get the characters from one predicament to another, all within a sequence of events that never would have occurred if another character had been written with sense enough to relay very important information.

A smart script would give us a REASON for Vice Admiral Witholdo to omit information like that. Is there a spy onboard? A traitor in their midst? Did the First Order plant a listening device on the ship and they need to do some clever codespeak like WRATH OF KHAN or some shit?

Literally any reason would be better than NO reason.

Instead, Poe comes off looking completely reasonable for staging a mutiny and sending Finn and Rose on a wild goose chase when it seemed his whole arc of the film was about learning to not impulsively do shit that could unnecessarily endanger Resistance lives.....all while ultimately endangering (and costing) Resistance lives.

And Admiral Hondo comes off looking like an emotionally-detached moron who can't relay simple information to the people whose lives have been entrusted to her while the script apparently wants us to view her as someone who was doing the right thing all along. This could have been a good well-written character. However, as she is presented in the film, Admiral Holdo gets the distinguished Dumbest Fucking Asshole In The Universe, dethroning Billy Crudup's character in ALIEN COVENANT who stuck his head in an alien egg because a creepy robot told him to.

I mean, shit, at the end of the film (or so I thought, until it went on for another 30 fucking minutes) when Poe is told what the plan was HE'S TOTALLY ON FUCKING BOARD WITH IT. He's a reasonable fucking guy. Tell him shit! That way he doesn't call up Maz Kambata doing some pointless bullshit to learn about a codecracker on a casino planet and launch a massive failure of a mission.

You know what, none of this shit makes any sense at all. Why go so far out of the way to find a codecracker, bring him back, break into a Star Destroyer and hack the computers.... WHEN THEY ALREADY HAVE FUCKING ROBOTS THAT CAN DO THAT?

What's wrong with taking, I don't know, BB-8 on a shuttle, flying right up the Star Destroyer's tailpipe, and then having him crack the fucking computer? Hell, they could've written Holdo to not be a fucking idiot and have her sign off on the mission. Maybe play off some of the tension between her and Poe. She thinks he's reckless, but he convinces her this plan could work and they could escape via hyperspace rather than risk running out of fuel before they get to the mining planet, so she reluctantly gives him the green light because hey there's a chance this could work. Then when the plan goes awry, maybe there really WAS a spy or some shit, I mean I'm just spit balling here but did they even HAVE story meetings on this fucking thing? Why does everything have to be so convoluted? Why this big casino planet detour when you could've shaved off 30 minutes with something simpler and more effective?

Use your fucking heads for something other than hanging your lucrative Star Wars merch on, people.

I went pretty hard at how badly written this thing is, maybe I should talk about the stuff that worked. And I'm sure I will in another post. This thing is long enough as is.

So this was part of a review I guess?
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:51 pm

now I feel like I took it too easy with my criticisms :wink: :lol:
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:28 pm

the secret Holdo plan and the slow-motion chase are my two biggest problems with the film. i've been waiting til i see it again to figure out how big of a problem it really is for me... will it ruin the film more on a 2nd viewing or will i find some nugget of something to explain her lack of transparency that i missed the first time around. it's especially frustrating because, as you said, they literally only needed a couple lines of dialogue or something to explain it away by saying there was a spy on board, or they thought Kylo Ren had implanted Poe with some kind of Force-powered Sith mind-tap in the previous film, or something. maybe there's a deleted scene lying somewhere that explains it. if not, they should go back and reshoot one and insert it and say they forgot to put it in or something.

and a lot of the casino planet stuff was painfully bad.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Wolfpack on Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:04 pm

I take it you're excited for Rian Johnson's new trilogy, caruso?
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby so sorry on Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:04 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:...


Wow, that's almost spot on my feelings on this movie. Get out of my head!

As you said (and Baxter after), all they had to do was a simple line or two about potential spies to explain her actions. Shit, I even thought maybe SHE was the mole, and that's why she was acting that way.

Above all else...everything, the casino shit, Luke squeezing some alien's tit, Rose's apparent ability to fly speeders, the Knights of Ren samari sillyness, etc etc etc... above all of that nonsense, the Princess Leia Space Walk was the biggest groan-worthy moment of the movie. Unexplained. Unquestioned by any of her compatriots. Unbelievably bad 'drama'. This smacks of elevating Carrie Fisher to some God-like status in the film industry. Really, REALLY bothered me.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:45 pm

My big complaint about this film is the same as Caruso stated in how the unnecessary plot went nowhere and to make things completely unforgivable resulted in the heroes killing off significant numbers of the remaining Resistance en route to Crait, nearly making the whole of the Resistance extinct and letting the First Order rule the galaxy completely.

Whereas I criticised Poe for this outcome, Caruso helps point me towards the blame not being on this hotheaded character's shoulders but more on Holdo. So I have to consider that the blame for this disastrous plot is shared 50/50 between Poe and Holdo, or even then Poe himself is only 50/50 to blame in his own head, as yes he should have faith in Holdo but also yes I can see why he would distrust and disobey her.

But yeah, this type of unnecessary thinking and analysing, as well as this annoyingly self destructive plot, really should not have place in a Star Wars movie.

I've seen this movie once, and want to see it a 2nd time to view it with a greater understanding of other stuff like Luke's story and final fate, but really I feel little desire or excitement to do so. Justify Luke's actions all you want, but his story still feels too underwhelming, I'm not having much affection for Rey, Poe and Finn and certainly don't have that classic Star Wars affect of wanting to be these characters the way I have with others in past movies, and there isn't even that "Wow I can't wait to see that exciting scene of.... of.... The Casino chase.... er..... Luke's fake image having a minor lightsaber dance with Kylo" sensation that I got with wanting to rewatch stunning set pieces like previous films again. Crikey even the inferior Attack of the Clones had me seeing it about 4-5 times in the theatres because of it's dazzling action.

I give The Force Awakens a 3.5 out of 5. I expected the film to follow that, what with the world established, to confidently have a higher rating from me. Instead I give...
The Last Jedi 3 out of 5.

Maybe that will change on repeat viewings, but I doubt it. We'll see.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:54 pm

Just to be clear, I've said THE LAST JEDI is a bad film with a lot of stupid stuff in it, but it also has a lot of stuff in it that I liked. It's just that a lot of that good stuff gets hobbled by bad writing and wasted potential. And a lot of "humor" that didn't land for me at all. Say what you will about THE FORCE AWAKENS, but at least the stuff that was supposed to be funny actually WAS funny.

That shit with Poe prank-calling General Hux was kind of embarrassing.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:44 pm

When it comes to things I liked, Mark Hamill's turn as Luke is easily at the top of the pile. I love cranky old hobo Luke Skywalker. He gives some solid reasons for wanting to see the old ways die, especially since the Jedi Council was pretty much directly responsible for fucking up the galaxy for decades.

The problem is the Luke Skywalker stuff never quite gels with the rest of the film. Every time it cut back to him I just wished the movie would stay there. Unfortunately those fucking porgs were also there, but you have to take the good with the bad. For every good dramatic Luke scene like when he confesses that in a moment of weakness he considered murdering his own nephew, you get a shot of Mark Hamill squeezing milk out of an alien boob and drinking it.

Another problem with those scenes (and ultimately in the film as a whole) is Rey's apparent lack of purpose in the story. Once again the script takes the most roundabout approach to telling a story, using a lot of dialogue to tell us relatively little. What does Rey actually accomplish on the island? Most of her dialogue consists of "The Resistance is in danger and we need your help!"

Probably the most interesting relationship in the film is between Rey and Ben. But even that ends where it started, with the two of them as rivals on opposite sides of the same old conflict. Even then, it's not like they were ever friends and the script again gives her nothing to do but regurgitate Luke's dialogue from ROTJ about "conflict" and "there's good in you" and all that shit, which is totally unearned here.

And I don't know what the fuck they were going for with Snoke. That character left me cold in THE FORCE AWAKENS, but I really kinda dug him here. He's this weird fucked up looking dude who acts like an asshole stepdad or something. "You're just a child in a mask." That's good shit!

So...they kill him. And the Rey and Ben team up to kill all the guards and I thought, "So does this series not have a villain now?" And then Ben is like, "Let's forget all about the past. Let's make our own way. Join me. Let's burn this shit down!" and I was like, YES! Fuck it! Let's go!

But then, whatever, she's gotta help her friends or whatever.

And Kylo Ren went back to being the bad guy. And I had to stop and ask myself "Where does Rey fit into all this?"

And I guess the answer is she doesn't. She has no purpose in this series. Redeem Ben Solo? Already tried, didn't work. Kill him? Eh, I feel like anybody could probably do that. So what's her character? What function does she serve? What function do ANY of these characters serve?

I like the idea of subverting what STAR WARS is. I love the idea of tearing down what came before and building something new. Except the new stuff isn't as fun or interesting as the old stuff. Rey, Finn, Poe and...the rest. ..don't really hold a candle to the characters we loved as kids. They're too scattershot and poorly written. What did Finn actually do in this movie? Learn to stop running and pick a side? Finally kissed a girl? Nothing he did in this film affected the outcome.

What about Poe? I talked about him. He learned sometimes fighting won't get it done and you have to run to fight another day. I guess. Did this make the movie better?

And Rey, I guess, somewhat played a part in getting Luke involved finally. But ghost-Yoda gave him the final push. And Rey stole the Jedi encyclopedias, so maybe she'll start a new Jedi order. But she knows even less about the force and about Jedi than Luke did, who was a self-professed failure himself....so I'm sure Rey will do great!

Oh and she helped rescue the five people who didn't die at the end. Good.

There are numerous more problems here. Why did the film waste so much time on Rose's sister? Christ, could they have padded that shit out any more? We get it, lives were unnecessarily lost to take out one ship. You don't need to hit me over the head with it. Just show me the fuckin medallion. I don't need to know all the effort she went through to drop the damn bombs.

So did Kylo Ren not know that Leia was alive? He was gonna blow her up but then didn't, then some other guys did it for him, then she wasn't actually dead but no one ever mentions it and Kylo never had a single follow up scene showing how he feels about it.

Okay, so Snoke was able to create a psychic link between Kylo and Rey in an attempt to draw out Luke Skywalker (didn't work), yet wasn't able to use that to find the planet Luke was actually on?

So Luke was able to create an astral projection of himself that can interact with other people and do stupid Matrix moves AND create a projection of Han's Millenium Falcon dice to give to Leia which disappear like TEN MINUTES after Luke disappears....... and instead of holding onto it as a memento Leia just threw that shit on the ground? For real?

That shot of Luke walking out to meet Kylo was fucking badass by the way, but the entire astral projection angle was so goddamn dumb. And then Luke just stares into the double sunset and....ghosts himself? Why? How is that a fitting end for the character? How is that closure?

I get they're still going after this whole "hope" bullshit, but they kinda pulled the whole "Luke is a superhero" legend ending out of their ass.

And that last shot of the kid felt like the ending of a third and final film, not the end of a middle film. In fact, the whole film kinda felt that way. I'm not even sure where they think they're gonna go from here. It's like they've spent so much time trying to introduce all these new characters and retire the old mythology that they forgot to come up with an actual new story.

Artoo and Threepio served no function here.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby so sorry on Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:15 pm

Question for everyone (because I can't quite remember): am I crazy, or were the words "God" and "soul" uttered in this film, and for the first time ever in SW movies? Ben said something about "yada yada save my soul?" and I swear someone else said "God" at one point, and i thought to myself that I don't remember either of these two words ever being said before in any SW movie.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:15 pm

so sorry wrote:Question for everyone (because I can't quite remember): am I crazy, or were the words "God" and "soul" uttered in this film, and for the first time ever in SW movies? Ben said something about "yada yada save my soul?" and I swear someone else said "God" at one point, and i thought to myself that I don't remember either of these two words ever being said before in any SW movie.


I'm not sure, but Benicio Del Toro said "boudoir" which weirded me out.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Fievel on Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:15 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:
so sorry wrote:Question for everyone (because I can't quite remember): am I crazy, or were the words "God" and "soul" uttered in this film, and for the first time ever in SW movies? Ben said something about "yada yada save my soul?" and I swear someone else said "God" at one point, and i thought to myself that I don't remember either of these two words ever being said before in any SW movie.


I'm not sure, but Benicio Del Toro said "boudoir" which weirded me out.


Same here.
Until that moment I had assumed that everyone used space diapers. :oops:
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Ribbons on Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:53 pm

Between you and me, the moment that *really* took me out of the film was the one where Luke drinks hot milk out of those space cows, and then mutters something about "f@t titties."
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:31 am

Fievel wrote:
caruso_stalker217 wrote:
so sorry wrote:Question for everyone (because I can't quite remember): am I crazy, or were the words "God" and "soul" uttered in this film, and for the first time ever in SW movies? Ben said something about "yada yada save my soul?" and I swear someone else said "God" at one point, and i thought to myself that I don't remember either of these two words ever being said before in any SW movie.


I'm not sure, but Benicio Del Toro said "boudoir" which weirded me out.


Same here.
Until that moment I had assumed that everyone used space diapers. :oops:


I think you meant this:

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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Fievel on Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:47 am

Everyone always means Gary Busey, if only in their hearts.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:57 pm

Ribbons wrote:Between you and me, the moment that *really* took me out of the film was the one where Luke drinks hot milk out of those space cows, and then mutters something about "f@t titties."


Milk: it does a Jedi good.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:28 am

This captured my criticisms 100%.

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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:12 am

It just occurred to me, did no one in this film have "a bad feeling"?
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Fievel on Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:32 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:It just occurred to me, did no one in this film have "a bad feeling"?


It's been confirmed that BB-8 did.
Poe responds with something like "yeah me too buddy."
:roll:

One of my few gripes.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:53 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:It just occurred to me, did no one in this film have "a bad feeling"?


besides half the audience?
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Fievel on Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:33 pm

The traditional Wilhelm scream was put into a Kylo Ren lightsaber swing - another minor gripe.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:17 pm

TheBaxter wrote:
caruso_stalker217 wrote:It just occurred to me, did no one in this film have "a bad feeling"?


besides half the audience?


I knew it would be you, Baxter.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Ribbons on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:47 pm

I'll start with a compliment, because I didn't hate The Last Jedi -- hell, I actually enjoyed it in parts -- and there's (bizarrely) been a lot of controversy surrounding the film, so I'd like to say something nice. I was impressed with Rian Johnson's take on the Force, specifically the dichotomy between the light side and the dark side. We've heard a lot in previous entries in the Star Wars saga about how the dark side may *seem* more powerful than the light, but is actually not. This always struck me as hollow lip service to the notion that good is obviously better than evil, because it has to be. This is the first time I felt like Star Wars actually earned that idea. By marrying the light side to hope and compassion, and the dark side to despair and rage, Johnson set up a philosophical struggle that I found surprisingly moving... particularly in our current political climate, where it feels like everyone hates each other and the world is falling apart. I tend to fall into the despair/rage category more often that I would like these days; I find myself feeling that way so often that it shocks and frightens me. I imagine the recluse Luke Skywalker we meet in this film would feel the same way in moments of self-reflection: disbelief and horror at how swiftly and totally his hope has vanished after a series of devastating blows. But, to borrow a line from everyone's favorite new character General Holdo, "Hope is like the sun: if you only believe in it when you can see it, you'll never make it through the night." Fear and anger are powerful motivators, and are easy to give into because they make you want to get shit done. And yet when Luke faced down a nephew who wanted nothing more than to destroy him and his kind (to fight what he hates, you could say), the man who emerged victorious in a world going down in flames was the man who had the courage to imagine a better one. So I'd like to believe.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:53 pm

if you stretched yourself to rationalize like that more often we'd see less scathing and more positive reviews from you :-P :D :wink:
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Ribbons on Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:58 pm

It's not a rationalization, it's just the part of The Last Jedi that I liked best. It doesn't excuse the film's many sins, and I plan on getting into those later.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:18 pm

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