The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby RogueScribner on Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:27 am

What? The Quadrilogy set that's out there now isn't the same one released before? Fox cut some special features?
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:16 am

Spandau Belly wrote:
Peven wrote:
i can't remember seeing anything from Weaver herself about not wanting to do anymore Alien films, and it certainly doesn't make sense at all that she would take that stance and "make" them kill her off in 3 just to turn around to do #4, so until i see her actually quoted i chalk that assertion up to rumor.


This stuff is actually all there in the interviews on the quadrilogy box set right from Weaver's mouth. Weaver didn't want to do any sequels and after the second one she got really demanding and made a list of things that had to happen in a sequel in order to get her back:
-an Alien movie with no weapons
-Ripley has to die
-Ripley makes love to an Alien

They granted her first two wishes with Alien 3 and the third wish in Alien 4.

There was an article in "Premiere" (I think) a bunch of years ago about what a clusterfuck Alien 3 was from the jump-off. At one point they had two different scripts being written simultaneously with whichever one that finished first the winner. Fincher was hired about two weeks before cameras rolled and on day two the studio realized, "Oh shit, we just gave a 50 million dollar movie to a guy whose biggest production is a Madonna video." Thus the dickery. I think it was in that article that Weaver stated she didn't want to do any more Alien flicks. The reason being that Fox even back then was planning for the next film to be Alien vs. Predator and she wanted absolutely nothing to do with that so she demanded that Ripley be killed. Now that I think about it Weaver may have said that to "Movieline" or "Premiere" when Resurrection came out.

Fried Gold wrote:
Peven wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:I was more than satisfied that Newt never again spoke any more dialogue.

And Newt wasn't retro-impregnated. There's a whole scene dedicated to Ripley checking the body.

Michael Biehn - he's good at those Cameron-parts he's played...not sure if he'd be that great as a lead.


it is revisionism, hence the "retro" tag. in "Aliens" she and Ripley are NOT impregnated

Their ship is damaged, and Ripley impregnated, AFTER the conclusion of the story in Aliens. So it's neither being revisionist or retroactive.

I think we're supposed to believe the queen laid eggs on the Sulaco (on the jump ship?) and it was those that attacked Newt and Ripley. One of those eggs then goes with the cryotubes in the escape pod to the prison planet. I think I'm remembering that right, its been forever since I've seen the flick.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby CeeBeeUK on Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:19 am

T the very end of Aliens, over the credits, you can hear a facehugger scuttling around. so the set up was there from Cameron.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Spandau Belly on Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:03 am

On my Quadrilogy special features Weaver talks explicitly about what a stupid idea she thought Alien Versus Predator was. Back then they hadn't yet made an AvP movie so it was cool to bash a project that never happened, but I'm sure if Fox has done trimming on the special features, these comments probably got cut.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Fried Gold on Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:14 pm

RogueScribner wrote:What? The Quadrilogy set that's out there now isn't the same one released before? Fox cut some special features?

Just to clear up possible confusion:

There's only ever been one Alien Quadrilogy boxset. It is the definitive set.

What I was referring to was the review The Digital Bits posted when it was released - they claimed that much more documentary footage exists and was put together for the Alien 3 disc but it was vetoed and edited down on the order of Fox/Giler & Hill as it cast them in a poor light....so the Alien 3 documentaries don't delve quite so deeply, and a lot of stuff is implied.

There are other sets out there
- Alien Legacy - it had good commentaries, but the overall thing isn't as good as the Quad
- Alien Saga - just the films, no extra features.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby verdouxbrothels on Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:44 pm

This isn't directly related to the Quadrilogy set itself, but the first "Alien" was on last night...I've seen the damn thing a million times but I was amazed at how hard it was to flip away. I kept going back to check on how many crew members were still alive...

Still has an eerie power. God bless those shredded condoms.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:18 pm

ALIEN is truly a classic. It's funny you bring it up because a buddy of mine at work has never seen any of the movies, so I'm bringing my copy of ALIEN with my today to shove down his throat.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:47 pm

Wouldn't it just be easier to watch it?
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:51 am

You'd think so.

No, actually that sounds pretty reasonable.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Worst Part's Almost Over on Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:47 pm

I require feedback and real opinions here, compadres.

I want to know why people take such issue with Alien3. I've always been a fan of the special edition - it's an excellent film. There is a great cast (Charles Dance and Paul McGann are exceptional) and the mood, music and atmosphere are just right for an Alien movie. And yet I constantly hear people saying 'It's shit' or 'it's a blight on the franchise.' No, that's Alien Resurrection you're thinking of, I'm sure of it! :D

So can anybody please explain to me their grievances with this film in detail please? Because I've just re-watched Alien3 Special Edition and I can't for the life of me understand why anyone thinks it's rubbish.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Chilli on Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:58 pm

It starts with taking out Newt and Hicks (is that the right name?) from Aliens straight away... then segues into the fact that the film doesn't use the Prison Complex idea to full effect. It's also got a 'too many cooks' approach to it, where it doesn't feel like the film Fincher would have made if they actually left him to his own devices. While I don't particularly care for Alien on an emotive level, both that and Aliens have a unique approach that makes them come alive. Alien3 doesn't really have that for me, it's a lot of ideas thrown at the screen without really making them resonate.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Worst Part's Almost Over on Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:07 pm

Chilli wrote:It starts with taking out Newt and Hicks (is that the right name?) from Aliens straight away... then segues into the fact that the film doesn't use the Prison Complex idea to full effect.


Hmmm...where else do you believe the prison complex motif could have been expanded? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. As for Newt and Hicks, well - there deaths are no more shocking on a storyline level than the deaths of any of Ripley's allies throughout the series. But they do serve to kick the story off with an emotional punch that I believe serves the material well.

Chilli wrote:While I don't particularly care for Alien on an emotive level, both that and Aliens have a unique approach that makes them come alive. Alien3 doesn't really have that for me, it's a lot of ideas thrown at the screen without really making them resonate.


Having watched the bonus features and seen how much more emotional and dramatic the story could have been in the hands of Vincent Ward, I'm inclined to agree with you there. And his idea for the wooden planet populated by monks certainly is a unique approach on a par with Scott & Cameron's unique approaches to the material. If anything, I'd say Ward's vision is more in tune stylistically with Giger's work. However, while the film lacks substance on an emotional level, it more than makes up for it with the approach Fincher took to characterisation. For example, the idea of Golic believing himself to be the 'servant of the beast' was inspired and something that should never have been dropped from the theatrical version.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Chilli on Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:22 pm

Take note that I'm going off the theatrical edition, and not the 'directors cut.' I just think they would've been better spent really homing in on the theme of Ripley being trapped in the nightmareish existence where everyone she cared about died (in part) due to her choices (and by that, I mean have Newt and Hicks last a fair while before biting it), and contrasting that with these Prisoners who willingly committed crimes and damned themselves. Maybe even play on the religious aspects more.

It always seemed to me that there was a fantastically existential/religious/faith based approach they could've taken, but they never seemed to know what they wanted - as the 'Greatest Sci Fi Films Never Made' chapter indicates. You get the sense that Alien and Aliens never changed the big idea of what they were, but Alien3 did constantly.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Worst Part's Almost Over on Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:26 pm

Chilli wrote:It always seemed to me that there was a fantastically existential/religious/faith based approach they could've taken, but they never seemed to know what they wanted


I think this is where Vincent Ward's story would've been the better choice. From how he describes it, beat by beat, on the Quadrilogy bonus features, it would've been truly amazing and dark and explored a lot of the things you talk about.

Even though I can agree that Alien3 (even the special edition, which I prefer) never reached its full potential, I still find it infinetely more acceptable and watchable than Alien Resurrection. Ripley's self sacrifice makes total sense as she's lost everything to these creatures and now has the chance to finally end their existence once and for all. That's the power that Ripley finally has. That's the ace in the hole that Alien3 has. The fourth film destroys all that and subsequently, I think, makes Alien3 look poor as a result. Which it really isn't, in my opinion.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:16 pm

I think I'll jump in here a moment and say that I never cared for Ward's story. The wooden planet is a whimsical concept and is completely out of place in the ALIEN universe. As its own film I think it would've been cool, but it sounds more like an idea that Ward had been kicking around and then shoe-horned Ripley into. Monks on a wooden planet would have been a much bigger disaster than ALIEN³ (supposedly) was.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:28 pm

I'd also like to add that while ALIEN RESURRECTION may not be the best movie in the world ("it's shit" seems to be the consensus) it did have some potential. The idea of this Ripley-alien hybrid clone could've been great if they had a good writer to realize it. Joss Whedon does not strike me as the kind of guy to, you know, do that. The closest the film comes is in the scene where little Winona Ryder sneaks into Ripley's isolation well or whatever the hell that was and is gonna get her stab on. But Ripley puts an end to that shit real quick. Then little Winona says, "I can make the pain shtop. I can end your shuffering" or whatever it was she said. Then Ripley talks about how she can feel "it" moving behind her eyes. This scene gives you the very briefest glimpse of what could have been an interesting concept, this clone struggling with her fuckin' alien-human nature. You know, scenes like with the white turd at the end and Ripley is caressing it. There's a connection between her and the turd. Probably stronger than any connection she could have with a person, or the little robot lesbian. So I think that could have been interesting if they had explored the Ripley character, her inner fucking, ah, struggle or what have you. Like what they said they were going for in the supplemental material for the film and missed by about a hundred goddamn miles. So, if they'd focused more on Ripley and her fuckin' baggage and less on corny one-liners then I think this could have been a pretty good movie. In theory.

Anyway, I like ALIEN RESURRECTION. It's fucking stupid, a terrible ALIEN film, but I find it entertaining. And again, there's more than meets the eye. It's simply left unexplored.

I'd also like to add that I think this film is about homosexuality. Just thought I'd put it out there. That could be, you know, some underlying theme. Some kind of g@y theme.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Worst Part's Almost Over on Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:51 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:I'd also like to add that while ALIEN RESURRECTION may not be the best movie in the world ("it's shit" seems to be the consensus) it did have some potential. The idea of this Ripley-alien hybrid clone could've been great if they had a good writer to realize it. Joss Whedon does not strike me as the kind of guy to, you know, do that. The closest the film comes is in the scene where little Winona Ryder sneaks into Ripley's isolation well or whatever the hell that was and is gonna get her stab on. But Ripley puts an end to that shit real quick. Then little Winona says, "I can make the pain shtop. I can end your shuffering" or whatever it was she said. Then Ripley talks about how she can feel "it" moving behind her eyes. This scene gives you the very briefest glimpse of what could have been an interesting concept, this clone struggling with her fuckin' alien-human nature. You know, scenes like with the white turd at the end and Ripley is caressing it. There's a connection between her and the turd. Probably stronger than any connection she could have with a person, or the little robot lesbian. So I think that could have been interesting if they had explored the Ripley character, her inner fucking, ah, struggle or what have you. Like what they said they were going for in the supplemental material for the film and missed by about a hundred goddamn miles. So, if they'd focused more on Ripley and her fuckin' baggage and less on corny one-liners then I think this could have been a pretty good movie. In theory.

Anyway, I like ALIEN RESURRECTION. It's fucking stupid, a terrible ALIEN film, but I find it entertaining. And again, there's more than meets the eye. It's simply left unexplored.

I'd also like to add that I think this film is about homosexuality. Just thought I'd put it out there. That could be, you know, some underlying theme. Some kind of g@y theme.


That was the most entertaining post I've read on here in ages! My thanks!! :D
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:54 pm

You're welcome.
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Vincent Ward's Alien 3

Postby TheButcher on Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:42 am

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Re: The Alien 3 You Never Saw

Postby DaleTremont on Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:50 pm

TheButcher wrote:From io9: The Alien 3 You Never Saw


Interesting...but when they say "medieval" way of life I think that stupid Excalibur shit in Doomsday.
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Re: The Alien 3 You Never Saw

Postby Fried Gold on Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:58 pm

TheButcher wrote:From io9: The Alien 3 You Never Saw

The info on that page is slightly mixed up.

William Gibson's script was going to be directed by Renny Harlin.

Vincent Ward wrote his own script after rejecting all the previous attempts.
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Re: The Alien 3 You Never Saw

Postby The Vicar on Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:09 pm

DaleTremont wrote:
TheButcher wrote:From io9: The Alien 3 You Never Saw


Interesting...but when they say "medieval" way of life I think that stupid Excalibur shit in Doomsday.


I really wish you hadn't brought that up....still pissed I paid money to see this.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby papalazeru on Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:21 pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I remember hearing a rumour years ago that when the Alien 3 concept came about, some of the scripts discussed were....
Set it on an ice planet and the Aliens become Transparent. (I can understand the problem with this but it's still Kick ass),
or another one was,
They came to earth and battled it out with us (Ok, possibly the coolest Idea with no predators)

Those were the rumbling I heard years ago.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Gerald Fried on Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:58 am

papalazeru wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong but I remember hearing a rumour years ago that when the Alien 3 concept came about, some of the scripts discussed were....
Set it on an ice planet and the Aliens become Transparent. (I can understand the problem with this but it's still Kick ass),
or another one was,
They came to earth and battled it out with us (Ok, possibly the coolest Idea with no predators)

Those were the rumbling I heard years ago.

...amongst many others. There were apparently about 25 different potential Alien 3 scripts produced.

At one point, the film was going to be about an Alien vs Humans cold war - humanity had become a warrior society which feared the threat of a possible alien attack (basically everyone in the film would be like the Marines from Aliens.) There were going to be new concept aliens (including the above ice-Aliens, human-hybrids, Predator-like warrior aliens). Essentially it would've been a serious version of Starship Troopers, with Star Wars space battles and ten Aliens marines wars.

The producers wanted Hicks and Bishop to be the leads. With several writers and directors dropping out, and Fox not really wanting an Alien film without Ripley, everything changed - David Twohy wrote a prison story, Vincent Ward wrote the religious story, Giler and Hill merged the two and hired David Fincher.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Spandau Belly on Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:42 am

I was really surprised they didn't just hire some voice actors to fill in those couple of moments in the assembly cut of Alien 3.

I mean, your standard Steven Seagal DTV movie seems to find the budget to loop in lines by a dude who is clearly not Seagal for the sake of clarity or something, so why not bust that out for Alien 3? I mean, I've worked as a voice actor, I'm pretty cheap, I could probably do a passable Lance Henkrikson, better than suddenly reading subtitles.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Fried Gold on Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:43 am

Fun Alien Resurrection Fact of the Day:

Jean-Pierre Jeunet wanted to have a scene where a mosquito stings Ripley, then vanishes into smoke because of her acid blood. Eventually, he dropped the idea after the VFX team told him how much it would cost.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:11 pm

That was also the reason they never used the original opening. Ze money, Lebowski!
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Re:Ridley Scott's ALIEN

Postby TheButcher on Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:03 pm

From Collider:
Ridley Scott Dishes on Two ALIEN Prequels And Much More at Hero Complex Film Festival

Germain Lussier wrote:- As a child, Scott thought science fiction was sort of cheesy until he saw the Mad Max films and the art work of Moebius, who he mentioned on SEVERAL occasions.

- He told the story of how Alien came to be. He was trying to get something going after The Duelisits and after a meeting in Hollywood, his producer took him to see Star Wars at the Grauman’s Chinese. Scott said he felt a vibe in the packed theater that he hasn’t felt since and walked out sick with envy. A few months later, the script for Alien came across his desk and he had to do it.

- He said he was the fifth person the script was sent to and it was in danger of being killed. When he realized he knew how to shoot it, he went in and proposed they don’t change one word.

- The original budget was 4.2 million dollars, but after spending several months drawing storyboards, the studio got excited and doubled the budget. He feels storyboarding is almost as important as writing.

- When he can, Scott will spend two hours in the morning each day just reading with no distractions. He thinks it’s essential to read things pure.

- Scott loves the Alien franchise and was kind of upset they never asked him to come back. In fact, he didn’t even know they were making a second one when they started.


Germain Lussier wrote:- Sigourney Weaver wasn’t cast until 3 weeks before shooting and though she’d gained acclaim on Broadway, she hadn’t really done a film at the time. When he met her the short Scott (who is 5 foot 8 inches) was extremely impressed and kind of taken back by her size. She tested on the actual set, because they were close to shooting and it was being built. Scott said he could have cut the test into the movie.
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Re: Vincent Ward's Alien 3

Postby TheButcher on Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:05 pm

From EMPIRE:
Alien 3: The Lost Tale Of The Wooden Planet
We investigate Vincent Ward's Alien movie that never was...

Everyone knows that Alien3 had a troubled production - but what people don't know is just how far down the line director Vincent Ward's "wooden planet" version of the story got before it was jettisoned in favour of the prison planet which eventually appeared onscreen. What follows is Empire's investigation into the history of this lost movie, with input from Ward himself and his creative team on what went on and what went wrong...
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ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:50 am

Alien is the greatest film of all time, not just the best Alien film.

Aliens is a giant heap of 80s and is at times ridiculously mawkish and really quite dodgy.

Alien 3 is massively underrated and has facets of brilliance.

Alien Resurrection is a bit rubs, but having seen it again last week I found it strangely watchable.

Discuss. Now....and vote.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Ribbons on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:00 pm

Prometheus! (And Aliens vs. Predator 2: Requiem in a close second)

I've never seen Alien Resurrection, so that one is automatically my favorite/disqualified. But I just re-watched the first Alien (on Blu-ray!) a few weeks ago and have to concur with its general awesomeness. I don't have much of an opinion on the other two since I barely remember them, but I think there was a kung fu robot in there somewhere.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Leckomaniac on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:28 pm

I think the Alien Trilogy really works. The first film is magnificent and terrifying. The second film just explodes the scope and hits all these excellent action film beats. And then the third film tightens the scope once more and delivers a surreal experience.

I am a very big fan. The first one is the better film by leaps and bounds, but on any given day I could watch any of the three films depending on my mood.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Spandau Belly on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:46 pm

There's already at least one thread for this:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71237&start=50
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Leckomaniac on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:51 pm

Yeah, I thought of that before I went to post. But this one has a poll. And apparently it is driving new people out of the Zone by pointing out dupe threads. :roll:
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:07 pm

The worst of this all is, is that this time last year I did a "What film in a series do you like best etc." thread and that catch all thread got sod all life into it from you guys too.

But I'll play along here.

Alien 4 is a great example of a potential script being turned to shit by crappy executions. I hate Jean Piere or whatever his name is for everything that he did in this piece of comic self parodying shit.

A Ripley/Alien being? Could do so much with that. Not indulged in enough depth and questioning of what it represented. The Baby Alien killed off too soon before any real story could be one with it. Best thing I could ask is why did Ripley kill her child? I veered more toward the school of thought that she decided who she wanted to be, rejected the baby and being a Xenomorph, wanted to be human. My Dad pointed out that it was a mercy killing, she didn't want the poor thing prodded and poked when it got to Earth. Yes, I see both points as a result.

What do you guys think?

DO YOU THINK ANYTHING AT ALL OR IS IT JUST COMIC BOOKS WANK WANK I HATE YOU ALL!!!!??? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:10 pm

It's tough to argue against Alien as the greatest of the 4, to me the better argument is among the other 3. While I agree that Alien 3 is underrated, I don't share the hate toward Aliens. It does fall into a number of 80's action flick cliches, no question. It's very Cameron-y (though not nearly as much as T2....Aliens is a much better movie than T2). I can't disagree with many of the criticisms, but I'm able to overlook many of them thanks to the truly fantastic moments of tension Aliens delivers. Alien 3 is DARKER and DEEPER, no question, but it is neither scarier nor more entertaining than Aliens.

I think I've said before that trying to compare Alien to Aliens is like trying to compare apples to oranges...they are simply very different films with different aims. I think the same thing can be said (and moreso) of Aliens and Alien 3. One works for me on an intellectual level, the other works for me on a visceral level.

The problem I have with Alien 3 is that for all the dread it instills in the viewer, it provides very little visceral tension. The Alien is no longer an enigmatic menace, due to (1) Fincher deciding to let us see it so clearly so early on, and (2) the fact that we've seen it in two other movies, which Fincher has no control over. There is no single moment in Alien 3 that provides the suspense to the viewer found in any of the following scenes of Aliens:

1) The Marines land on LV-426 and do the initial search of the facility, finding everything from a half-eaten donut, to a hastily constructed last-stand, to finding an enormous hole in the deck where acid has burned through, to facehuggers (mostly) in stasis. Taken as a sequel to Alien, this is a nice buildup to the action as the viewer can imagine and speculate about what has led to this point, based on what we've seen to date. It's also a reasonably slow burn for a Cameron movie, to me while it is a bit of cliche, these sequences provide a satisfying and systematic ramp up in tension.

2) The search for the colonists. From the dark, strangely organic surroundings to the realization that the marines will not be able to use their most powerful weapons to finding the colonists entombed, to "please.....kill me...." to the moment that the walls begin to move, this is a pretty brilliant set piece, in my opinion. Cameron makes good use of the technology of the film here. We see much of the search and action through the helmet cams of the Marines, a gimmick that works to further immerse the viewer in the action and has been used over and over again since. Quick cuts to the "lifesign" meters of the Marines as the action unfolds also works, and has been duplicated since. The last piece of technology used here deserves its own number....

3) The motion detectors. Hear that rhythmic pulse anywhere at any time in the real world, and I'll bet you'll immediately think of Aliens. The shots of the detector going from nothing, to a couple of blips, to a mass of Aliens coming inexorably their way is enormously effective, at least to me. Particularly in the scenes described above and the scenes in the sealed medical bay where the Aliens are coming through the ceiling. It's a gimmick, sure, but I love it.

4) The stand in ops/medical bay. We get a mini-montage of the marines sealing the doors, etc., as they lock themselves in. To me this whole sequence is very reminiscent of Night of the Living Dead, which is probably why I like it so much. Most of the actual action here is unseen, as the marines listen to the (really creepy) screams of the aliens and watch the ammo counters for the sentry guns tick steadily down.

5) The standoff between Ripley and the Queen. Not with Ripley in the loader...the one in the egg room. Cool semi-quiet moment punctuating one action set-piece and setting the stage for everything to go to hell.

This isn't all to say that Aliens is "better" than Alien 3. As I've said, I think they are just different. Maybe I'm simplistic in my tastes (likely), but there are a number of reasons why Aliens works for me as an action/thriller, and I just wanted to point some of them out and get people's reactions. As I've typed this out, I realized that my favorite parts of Aliens are really the moments leading up to the action, as opposed to the action sequences themselves (though some of those are pretty cool....."LET'S ROCK..........").

The biggest problem with Aliens to me is that it still does still resort to so many of those 80's action cliches, and when viewed with that realization in mind, the viewer becomes aware by halfway through (or earlier) that the survivors will be: Ripley, Newt and Hicks. And Cameron doesn't move away from that formula. From that standpoint the film is very simplistic, and that defuses the tension to a degree, which is unfortunate. I have to give Fincher a lot of credit for not being a slave to that formula (obviously). But when considering the moments themselves, there are, to me, a lot of things worth liking in Aliens.

Ok, pick me apart people! :oops:

EDIT: Yeah, there are other threads where we've gotten into this, but there are interesting posts here (especially mine) and I don't want to do anything to disrupt the convo, so maybe I'll merge the threads later at some point, but for right now, let's plow ahead!
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Spandau Belly on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:59 pm

I will answer Kirk's question(s) on ALIEN 4.

I think the movie wants it both ways in terms of the baby's death. They want it to seem like a touching mercy kill from Ripley, but then they also want it to be as sadistic and gimmicky as possible so that we in the audience get to laugh at the big alien baby getting chewed up and spit out of the air lock window.

I think Joss Whedon is a hugely overrated wanker. The best thing he wrote was TOY STORY, mostly because that was aimed at children. He can moan all he wants about the budget and the director and whatever else he feels got in the way of his ideas being correctly realized, but I've got a more pracitcal explanaition: this stuff all sounds totally awesome in his head and while he's writing it and only when he hears some actor actually say it, does he realize how lame it is. I've seen enough of the things he writes to say that I think the only difference between when he directs it himself versus somebody else is that other guys always get way more professional results. Sure, Jeunet is responsible for a lot of the corniness in ALIEN 4, but I don't think there's any way to take anything Whedon writes and have it not be corny, so I'll give Jeunet props for going all the way with the cheese factor.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:09 pm

Spandau Belly wrote:There's already at least one thread for this:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71237&start=50

Leckomaniac wrote:Yeah, I thought of that before I went to post. But this one has a poll. And apparently it is driving new people out of the Zone by pointing out dupe threads. :roll:


Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:The worst of this all is, is that this time last year I did a "What film in a series do you like best etc." thread and that catch all thread got sod all life into it from you guys too.


Completely off-topic, and we shall hear no more of this after, but I would refer you to points 2a, 2b & 2c of the Zoner Alliance proposal.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:12 pm

Ugh. Do I HAVE to look?
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:14 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Alien 4 is a great example of a potential script being turned to shit by crappy executions. I hate Jean Piere or whatever his name is for everything that he did in this piece of comic self parodying shit.

Apprently Jean-Pierre Jeunet was brought on board because the producers liked his style. Then the producers proceeded to tell him the style they wanted and what he could and couldn't do. And Jeunet was fine with this. So it seems like a strange way to direct/produce a film.

A Ripley/Alien being? Could do so much with that. Not indulged in enough depth and questioning of what it represented. The Baby Alien killed off too soon before any real story could be one with it. Best thing I could ask is why did Ripley kill her child? I veered more toward the school of thought that she decided who she wanted to be, rejected the baby and being a Xenomorph, wanted to be human. My Dad pointed out that it was a mercy killing, she didn't want the poor thing prodded and poked when it got to Earth. Yes, I see both points as a result.

What do you guys think?

I suppose it could be said that there's enough Ripley in Alien 4's Ripley for her to know the consequences of letting the Baby Homo-Alien get to Earth, even if it is her "child". One kinda wonders what the point of the Baby Homo-Alien was - it didn't seem to have much of a military application.
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Leckomaniac on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:46 pm

BUMP!

BTW typing in:

Official Alien

Got me to this thread. REJOICE!
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Re: The Official Alien Quadrilogy Thread

Postby Leckomaniac on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:50 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:I'd also like to add that while ALIEN RESURRECTION may not be the best movie in the world ("it's shit" seems to be the consensus) it did have some potential. The idea of this Ripley-alien hybrid clone could've been great if they had a good writer to realize it. Joss Whedon does not strike me as the kind of guy to, you know, do that.


I think the problem wasn't necessarily with Joss.

From what I have read, the film was supposed to be about a cloned Newt for the longest time until they changed it at the last minute.

I think the studio not knowing what it wanted was probably the driving force behind the deep flaws present in the fourth film.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby King Of Nowhere on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:56 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:The problem I have with Alien 3 is that for all the dread it instills in the viewer, it provides very little visceral tension. The Alien is no longer an enigmatic menace, due to (1) Fincher deciding to let us see it so clearly so early on, and (2) the fact that we've seen it in two other movies, which Fincher has no control over. There is no single moment in Alien 3 that provides the suspense to the viewer found in any of the following scenes of Aliens...


A lot of the tension in Alien 3 comes from the fact that she's on this ship with murderous rapists who haven't seen a woman in 10+ years. I can't remember the theatrical cut, but the 100 hour long version includes a scene where they turn on Ripley, start beating her up & she's away to get sodomised when the preacher-man comes in & saves her.

You're right about the other part, it's hard to paint the alien as a mysterious figure after the last 30 mins of Aliens had about 100 of them on screen.

EDIT: Yeah, there are other threads where we've gotten into this, but there are interesting posts here (especially mine) and I don't want to do anything to disrupt the convo, so maybe I'll merge the threads later at some point, but for right now, let's plow ahead!
Let the old thread die.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Peven on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:36 pm

Alien 3 is over-rated, not under-rated
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby minstrel on Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:46 pm

Fried Gold wrote:Alien is the greatest film of all time, not just the best Alien film.

Aliens is a giant heap of 80s and is at times ridiculously mawkish and really quite dodgy.

Alien 3 is massively underrated and has facets of brilliance.

Alien Resurrection is a bit rubs, but having seen it again last week I found it strangely watchable.



None of these statements is true. Not a single one. Strange - FG is usually one of the brightest Zoners, but he gets zero points on his own quiz, as it were.

Here are the correct statements:

Alien is nowhere near the greatest film of all time. It's great, but we've all seen better films. Even whether it's the best Alien film is a matter of debate.

Aliens is a spectacularly exciting action movie that stands out even in a decade of spectacular action movies. "Ridiculously mawkish" does not apply, and "quite dodgy" only applies if "dodgy", in this context, means "terrific".

Simply calling Alien 3 "massively underrated" is massively overrating it.

Alien Resurrection should never have been made.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby The Vicar on Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:48 pm

Peven wrote:Alien 3 is over-rated, not under-rated


A) True.

B) Ripley was NOT on a ship with a lot of murdering rapists - she crash landed on their planet.

C) The CGI aliens in A3 stank like a politician's breath. People in the theatre when I saw this were laughing at them. Bad sign.

Rotten Tomato say;
.............Overall...................Top Critics..............Metacritic
Alien.........96% (82 reviews)......78% (9 reviews).........83/100 (22 reviews)
Aliens.......100% (48 reviews).....100% (7 reviews)........87/100 (9 reviews)
Alien 3.......40% (40 reviews)......N/A (2 reviews)
Alien Res.....54% (65 reviews)......N/A (4 reviews)........63/100 (21 reviews)
.
........................................
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby King Of Nowhere on Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:54 pm

minstrel wrote:
Alien Resurrection should never have been made.


Alien Resurrection features Winona

existence justified!


vic wrote: Ripley was NOT on a ship with a lot of murdering rapists - she crash landed on their planet.

Was it? I thought it was a prison ship. I guess a prison planet would make more sense, let me modify my above statement.

A lot of the tension in Alien 3 comes from the fact that she's on this planet with murderous rapists who haven't seen a woman in 10+ years. I can't remember the theatrical cut, but the 100 hour long version includes a scene where they turn on Ripley, start beating her up & she's away to get sodomised when the preacher-man comes in & saves her.

Yep, changing a single noun really makes what i was saying clearer
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:02 pm

The Vicar wrote:C) The CGI aliens in A3 stank like a politician's breath. People in the theatre when I saw this were laughing at them. Bad sign.

There's only one shot using a CGI alien in Alien 3 - it's when they lead coat it and then water cool it, so a big crack forms on it's head. It lasts about 2 seconds and I doubt people were laughing at it, because they probably didn't notice.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:13 pm

The Vicar wrote:
Peven wrote:Alien 3 is over-rated, not under-rated


A) True.

B) Ripley was NOT on a ship with a lot of murdering rapists - she crash landed on their planet.

C) The CGI aliens in A3 stank like a politician's breath. People in the theatre when I saw this were laughing at them. Bad sign.

Rotten Tomato say;
.............Overall...................Top Critics..............Metacritic
Alien.........96% (82 reviews)......78% (9 reviews).........83/100 (22 reviews)
Aliens.......100% (48 reviews).....100% (7 reviews)........87/100 (9 reviews)
Alien 3.......40% (40 reviews)......N/A (2 reviews)
Alien Res.....54% (65 reviews)......N/A (4 reviews)........63/100 (21 reviews)


I'll never trust Rotten Tomatoes. Never. A lot of those reviews are probably archive, and as you know over time, perceptions change. 2001 RT at the time of release compared to RT now with new reviews etc. Over the course of time, people have decided that they do prefer Alien 3 to 4, whilst when 4 came out, people said it was defo better than 3. These people have now changed their mind.

Someone shows me RT readings and I'll show you someone who's REACHING.
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Re: ALIEN QUADTETANTHOLOGY

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:17 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
The Vicar wrote:C) The CGI aliens in A3 stank like a politician's breath. People in the theatre when I saw this were laughing at them. Bad sign.

There's only one shot using a CGI alien in Alien 3 - it's when they lead coat it and then water cool it, so a big crack forms on it's head. It lasts about 2 seconds and I doubt people were laughing at it, because they probably didn't notice.


Wow. Actually I thought the bit where the Alien died was very convincing. It's the bits where it's superimposed upside down on the roof that got me. Actually it's not even CG?

Hmmm, at least in Alien 4 you can tell when it's a shite CG shot. Which means it's crap.

But for all you doubters out there, go see Alien 3 the Extended cut. It makes Alien 3 a much better film. There is one really horrible clip that really gets to you, and it's when the Alien is in the hospital room and about to eat Clements. You see the bottom of a bed sink in all the way nearly down to the floor - to show that the Alien is present and is standing on that bed. It creeps the fark outta me. It's a genius shot by Fincher and really gets to your subconscious fear. Much better than anything that James my baby Alien coming out of Ripley's stomach was the worst effect ever Cameron came up with.
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