(Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

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(Rating The) WATCHMEN!

10
3
6%
9
8
15%
8
11
21%
7
11
21%
6
11
21%
5
4
8%
4
0
No votes
3
0
No votes
2
1
2%
1
0
No votes
Waiting for the DVD/Blu-Ray Director's Cut
1
2%
If I wanted to see blue dongs, I'd watch Siberian pr0n!
2
4%
 
Total votes : 52

Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:13 pm

Oh, I really liked the movie, btw. I gave it a 9/10. Gotta go update my movie journal.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DennisMM on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:16 pm

Oh, gods, I'm Hitler!

Except for the Rorschach outfit.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:20 pm

Did you see it yet Dennis? I've been looking forward to your rant... errr... review.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby papalazeru on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:45 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:Oh, I really liked the movie, btw. I gave it a 9/10. Gotta go update my movie journal.


I'd agree. It's been so long since I've read the comic so I'd forgotten most of it.

Watching it without tainted eyes, the film is pretty spectacular and very enjoyable. I did like that so far it's the most intelligent graphic novel/comic adaptation so far, I didn't feel the audience were treated like simpletons and the action was just a wonder to watch.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DennisMM on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:53 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:Did you see it yet Dennis? I've been looking forward to your rant... errr... review.


I can't bring myself to face the crowds opening weekend. I'm figuring either an early evening show some night after work this week, or possibly next weekend when the word of mouth slows down. I'm hoping to like it on some levels. I really am. Some of the non-geek reviews I'm reading give me confidence, but only on certain levels - visual command of the form (if still immature), several performances, ability to collapse the story into a limited running time.

A.O. Scott of the New York Times says it's better than 300 but not a good movie, and he opines, "The sex may be laughable, but the violence is another matter. The infliction of pain is rendered in intimate and precise aural and visual detail, from the noise of cracking bones and the gushers of blood and saliva to the splattery deconstruction of entire bodies. But brutality is not merely part of Mr. Snyder’s repertory of effects; it is more like a cause, a principle, an ideology. And his commitment to violence brings into relief the shallow nihilism that has always lurked beneath the intellectual pretensions of “Watchmen.” The only action that makes sense in this world — the only sure basis for ethics or politics, the only expression of love or loyalty or conviction — is killing."

Is he referring to the comic, or to the movie, or both? Not very clear on his part, but it's an interesting thought. I have read that the movie kicks up the violence quotient substantially and for no apparent reason. That's a little disappointing to me, as I thought most of the violence in the comic was pleasingly restrained.

A question I have, not a huge spoiler but still worthy of the black box - When Dan and Laurie attempt to make love in Dan's apartment, is the TV running a display of Veidt's physical prowess, as in the comic? For a while I have been convinced that Dan's failure in the face of Adrian's ability was meant to foreshadow Dan and Laurie's metaphorical impotence when confronted with Adrian's big hoax.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Hermanator X on Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:01 pm

papalazeru wrote:
Fried Gold wrote:


John Locke wrote:The URL contained a malformed video ID.


Fixed.



Fixed...and fucking funny.


That is class, and the talkback below it is great.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:19 pm

DennisMM wrote:
Nachokoolaid wrote:Did you see it yet Dennis? I've been looking forward to your rant... errr... review.


I can't bring myself to face the crowds opening weekend. I'm figuring either an early evening show some night after work this week, or possibly next weekend when the word of mouth slows down. I'm hoping to like it on some levels. I really am. Some of the non-geek reviews I'm reading give me confidence, but only on certain levels - visual command of the form (if still immature), several performances, ability to collapse the story into a limited running time.

A.O. Scott of the New York Times says it's better than 300 but not a good movie, and he opines, "The sex may be laughable, but the violence is another matter. The infliction of pain is rendered in intimate and precise aural and visual detail, from the noise of cracking bones and the gushers of blood and saliva to the splattery deconstruction of entire bodies. But brutality is not merely part of Mr. Snyder’s repertory of effects; it is more like a cause, a principle, an ideology. And his commitment to violence brings into relief the shallow nihilism that has always lurked beneath the intellectual pretensions of “Watchmen.” The only action that makes sense in this world — the only sure basis for ethics or politics, the only expression of love or loyalty or conviction — is killing."

Is he referring to the comic, or to the movie, or both? Not very clear on his part, but it's an interesting thought. I have read that the movie kicks up the violence quotient substantially and for no apparent reason. That's a little disappointing to me, as I thought most of the violence in the comic was pleasingly restrained.

A question I have, not a huge spoiler but still worthy of the black box - When Dan and Laurie attempt to make love in Dan's apartment, is the TV running a display of Veidt's physical prowess, as in the comic? For a while I have been convinced that Dan's failure in the face of Adrian's ability was meant to foreshadow Dan and Laurie's metaphorical impotence when confronted with Adrian's big hoax.


mmm. Thinking back, it's hard to say. I thought it was just some news broadcast or something, but it might have been about Veidt.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:22 pm

DennisMM wrote:I can't bring myself to face the crowds opening weekend. I'm figuring either an early evening show some night after work this week, or possibly next weekend when the word of mouth slows down. I'm hoping to like it on some levels. I really am. Some of the non-geek reviews I'm reading give me confidence, but only on certain levels - visual command of the form (if still immature), several performances, ability to collapse the story into a limited running time.

A.O. Scott of the New York Times says it's better than 300 but not a good movie, and he opines, "The sex may be laughable, but the violence is another matter. The infliction of pain is rendered in intimate and precise aural and visual detail, from the noise of cracking bones and the gushers of blood and saliva to the splattery deconstruction of entire bodies. But brutality is not merely part of Mr. Snyder’s repertory of effects; it is more like a cause, a principle, an ideology. And his commitment to violence brings into relief the shallow nihilism that has always lurked beneath the intellectual pretensions of “Watchmen.” The only action that makes sense in this world — the only sure basis for ethics or politics, the only expression of love or loyalty or conviction — is killing."

Is he referring to the comic, or to the movie, or both? Not very clear on his part, but it's an interesting thought. I have read that the movie kicks up the violence quotient substantially and for no apparent reason. That's a little disappointing to me, as I thought most of the violence in the comic was pleasingly restrained.

Regarding the violence, it doesn't feel out of place. What does feel out of place, apart from the finale, are the fight scenes.

A question I have, not a huge spoiler but still worthy of the black box - When Dan and Laurie attempt to make love in Dan's apartment, is the TV running a display of Veidt's physical prowess, as in the comic? For a while I have been convinced that Dan's failure in the face of Adrian's ability was meant to foreshadow Dan and Laurie's metaphorical impotence when confronted with Adrian's big hoax.

It is a much better movie than 300, but then comparing the two (both film and source material) isn't really fair - 300 has a fairly thin premise to begin with, so the film wasn't ever going to be much more. Watchmen obviously has a deeper well to drink from and so even a straight page-for-page recreation would win out.

And as for your spoiler - yes it is playing in the background, but not much is made of it.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Bayouwolf on Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:40 pm

Saw it. Thought it was OK as a stand alone flick.

I'll let djj review it proper when we go see it in IMAX when I get home.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Vegeta on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:30 pm

Vegeta has watched the Watchemen... the verdict... Pretty good.

Having read the Watchmen several times I have to say that (as many of you are aware) the movie is about as close to the "book on screen" as we'll ever get. I have a few quibles: Nixon makeup was horrible (as was Sally Jupiter's, especially at the hairline), some pacing was a little off, the ending and a couple of scenes were different (but not enough to warrant all the bitching). Everything else was awesome, including the "not in the book" stuff, like the opening credits.

My react to the all the bitching:

- The ending: Seriously was the ending in the book really that fucking great? It always seemed to me that it was a little rushed (everyone, sans Rorschach, just saying "okay" to mass murder in less than a page... Laurie and Dan getting it on at Ozy's fortress afterward). I didn't care the Nixon "statement to the Nation" on the TV instead of multiple news casts... but what are you going to do. Oh and Laurie says "it never stops" instead of Dr. Manhatten... it's not like she didn't say it was something he would say :roll:
- The actors: I thought all of the actors were good to excellent. As far as Milan Ackerman goes, she was pretty good, since IMO Laurie was always a bitchy, whiny, pain in the ass, semi-unlikable character.
- Ozy wasn't fleshed out enough: Yeah, he wasn't in the book either. :shock:

I would really be more interested in what people who haven't read Watchmen think of it (my guess is "a little hard to follow in parts"). Fanboys tend to be nitpicking douches who's opinions I often dismiss. I look forward to when I take my wife to this flick, since she really doesn't know anything about the book (beyond what I've babbled to her).

Vegeta gives Watchmen four out of five punches:
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:37 pm

From the OLEG thread:

Grammaton Cleric Binks wrote:So anyway I'll be in and out giving my spoiler-free Watchmen review. Let me being by settin the background. I've never read the book. I only vaguely knew the heroes, and I vaguely knew the premise. Obviously this was going to be a CGI visual fest. The question is was it going to all flash and glam, and no meat, or would it be something to sink our teeth into. Guys, this was a feast that fulfills. The intro alone was great. It set the tone, and for guys like me who have never read the book it was clear how the heroes and history related. You had an old group of heroes, or old in that they were set in the forties, time moved on, and so did the heroes, some retired, some met untimely ends, some just faded away, the world moves on, and finally we end up in 1985 alternate reality where Nixon is still president as the term-limit was repealed. All you guys could have read this, so I could be preaching to the choir. Since I was in high school time, and the Cold War, and the threat of nuclear war between the US and USSR was very real this hit a raw nerve with me. I thought the characters would be lame to be honest. I mean we've been inundated with superheroes for years. Some have become legends, others unforgettable limited issue characters who never got beyond that. So I'm thinking how could I be made to care about new characters who appeared only in a single graphic novel. By the time this was over I cared about every one.

I've always been a sucker for freak characters who either hide their face, or show off their horrors. Guys like Two-Face, Red-Skull, Unknown Soldier come to mind. Rorschach is a psycho, but he's a good psycho. I don't even think we see his face until halfway through the movie. Jackie Earle Haley (I think I called him Jackie Erley earlier) was incredible. You'd think it wouldn't matter who was under the mask, but that's like saying V for Vendetta could have had anyone instead of Hugo Weaving. Halfway through I realized who he was. He is Paul Kershey from Death Wish, only not as nice. He is without compromise, and without remorse. Wrongs will be righted at all costs. It's that simple to him. He is the anti-hero, and among all of them, he was my hero. What are his powers? I honestly don't know? You've seen the trailers, he has a mask that shifts into different rorshach test patterns. The only thing I can say is he's kind of like an old school Mike Hammer type who will stop at nothing. He can fight, he's very strong, resourceful, and acrobatic. It's his attitude that is great, and when he tell how the person in him left, and only Rorshach remained it was priceless. If you've read the book see the movie. If you haven't read the book, see this movie.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fievel on Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:41 am

I thought it was okay. Not great, but not a raging shitfest either.
I guess the only real enjoyment I got out of it was watching scenes from the book in motion.

And that slow-fast trick needs to stop.
Now.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Vegeta on Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:03 am

Fievel wrote:I thought it was okay. Not great, but not a raging shitfest either.
I guess the only real enjoyment I got out of it was watching scenes from the book in motion.

And that slow-fast trick needs to stop.
Now.

I don't mind it, I think it's quite effective in making things seem far more brutal than they normally may be. And in a comic to film format (300/Watchment) it works well.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby burlivesleftnut on Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:09 am

Yeah, I thought this was a real winner. As a few of you know, I didn't even care for the comic that much. My expectations were pretty low going in, but I got really caught up in the story and the characters. It wasn't perfect. Some of the cgi was a little off, a lot of the make-up sucked, and the classic hits they chose were a little too on the nose, but none of that detracted from the story.

One of the things I liked about this that I just didn't get from the comic was that these people were striving to be heroic. I liked how much Silk Spectre and Nite-Owl enjoyed getting back in the game, and I really enjoyed that Snyder upped the action quotient with them. The alley scene and prison riot were just spectacular. You could really feel the joy these people felt in getting back to their roots as heroes.

I don't have too much too say, but I will probably read back and debate some stuff with you guys later, but I will close with this: I REALLY liked the ending. This will probably sound like blasphemy, but I wouldn't even mind a sequel to see where this new world goes. I especially liked that Laurie and Dan didn't go into hiding like in the comic. That always bugged me. They made this decision to keep Ozymandias' shit a secret and then run off, which kind of contradicted the point that the world did need heroes like them.

Oh and movie Silk Spectre > comic Silk Spectre. She was 100,000% less whiney cliched woman hero in the movie.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Heyoucantlaughatthat on Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:29 am

A few of my thoughts. Most of what I think has already been said. Overall I liked it, it's around 8/10 territory with me right now.

-Why didn't they just cast mo'fuckin' Frank Langella as Nixon or somebody else who kinda looked like him? I get that they were tryin' to demonize Nixon with that look, but just make him talk like an asshole. Don't make him look like an orc from LotR.

-I thought the whole cast was pretty good. Akerman was definitely the weakest link, but I really liked Matt Goode as Ozy. He had a great underlying douchey arrogance to practically every line he uttered, something that I really liked. Kinda wish he had gotten more screen time. Thought Haley and Morgan knocked it out of the park, Crudup and Wilson were really good, not great.

-The whole sequence where Rorschach sneaks into the military base and warns Manhattan and Laurie just seemed...off...to me. There was no music playing in the background, everyone was talking like they were reciting lines from a page, and I just felt like they were on a set. Wonder if anyone else felt that way.

-I was SO GLAD they kept in Rorschach's Pagliacci joke. That was one of my favorite parts from the GN, glad it made it in.

-Greatest Line of the movie- "None of you understand, I'm not locked up in here with you, YOU'RE LOCKED UP IN HERE WITH ME!" Haley sure had the "fascinatingly ugly" aspect of kovacs down pat. Especially at the end when he was about to get zapped by Manhattan.
Also, "Men get arrested. Dogs get put down."

-Best thing that wasn't in the book- Another Rorschach moment, I really liked how, when Rorschach jumped out of that building after being framed, he fought tooth and nail against the cops in the streets for a while. In the GN, he pretty much was getting the crap kicked out of him as soon as he hit the ground. But seeing him fight with his hat off was cool.

-For a movie that wasn't afraid to show Manhattan naked, they never really told why he was naked. I know it never said it explicitly in the GN, but we knew that it was symbolic for his splitting with humanity's customs.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Seppuku on Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:16 am

Lol, don't know if anyone caught it, but someone just changed the title of Wikipedia's Watchmen article to: "A good movie, but lame superheroes are lame. Also, the first Silk Spectre (a blonde Carla Gugino with bouncing tits) is f_cking hot. If I was the Comedian, I’d try to rape her, too." It was up for about an hour before some killjoy edited it back again.

EDIT: Now w/ Screencap.

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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Hermanator X on Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:51 am

I actually enjoyed Nixon in it. The make up was so extreme it was jarring at first, but then it became fun. It seems like they ignored all of the actual photos of him and went straight to futurama for the character references. Once I thought about it like that I was chuckling all the way.

I enjoyed the movie, and thought it worked in most aspects. I was a little nervous at the beginning, mainly because of the talk show that Comedian is watching, as it was so dry and stiff I wondered if the tone was going to be farked for the whole movie. But apparently thats exactly how the show is that its lampooning, which I have never seen, and the "gag" goes over better stateside than it does in europe. But it didnt last long. I have to say I didnt notice the running time, and was surprised that it seemed to reach the arctic so soon, so I think the pacing was spot on.

Cant really say much more about the performances that hasnt been said already, but I will say to anyone complaining about them striking hero poses while fighting, its probably because they are costumed crime fighters and its in the rules that a cheesy pose has to be struck after each impact. They aint Jason Bourne, but at least they arent as bad as "Power Ranger" poses. :D

My fiance, who hasnt read the book, was able to follow the story very well, and even suggested going back to see it again. She loved it, and I was surprised at just how much she picked up. I will make an honest geek of her yet! :D
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nick on Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:55 am

Seppuku wrote:Lol, don't know if anyone caught it, but someone just changed the title of Wikipedia's Watchmen article to: "A good movie, but lame superheroes are lame. Also, the first Silk Spectre (a blonde Carla Gugino with bouncing tits) is f_cking hot. If I was the Comedian, I’d try to rape her, too." It was up for about an hour before some killjoy edited it back again.

EDIT: Now w/ Screencap.

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IIRC it was only up for 20-25 minutes. I noticed it and let an admin know
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Seppuku on Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:02 am

That was you? Um, you realise I was only kidding around with that "killjoy" comment, right?! RIGHT?!?!


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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nachokoolaid on Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:13 am

Fievel wrote:I thought it was okay. Not great, but not a raging shitfest either.
I guess the only real enjoyment I got out of it was watching scenes from the book in motion.

And that slow-fast trick needs to stop.
Now.


Bullet time seemed to get old really quickly, but I think that fast/slow stuff is really interesting, because you can manipulate it so much. How fast? How slow? Which places do you change speeds? I love that effect, and as long as it isn't overused, I hope it sticks around for a long time.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DerLanghaarige on Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:53 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:Bullet time seemed to get old really quickly, but I think that fast/slow stuff is really interesting, because you can manipulate it so much. How fast? How slow? Which places do you change speeds? I love that effect, and as long as it isn't overused, I hope it sticks around for a long time.


It was already overused after 40 minutes of '300' 2 years ago. Not to mention the millions of movietrailers, which manipulate their footage that way to be more show-offy (Terminator 4 trailer anyone? It's clearly to see that the timeramps in the trailer where not meant to be there, when the movie was shot.)
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DaleTremont on Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:21 pm

Fievel wrote:I thought it was okay. Not great, but not a raging shitfest either.
I guess the only real enjoyment I got out of it was watching scenes from the book in motion.

And that slow-fast trick needs to stop.
Now.


I still maintain it was put to excellent use in 300 and it was great in Watchmen in the Comedian death scene right up until maybe the prison riot scene. Then it got old. Real fucking old.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:41 pm

The movie would have been 20 minutes shorter if it was played at a regular pace.The only time I thought the slow motion fit the scene, was when the Comedian jumped off Archie to beat up hippies and when Rorschach burned a bunch of Swat guys with an aerosol can.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:58 pm

I dig all that slo mo stuff. Certainly take that over all that shitty rapid cut and shaky cam shit that has ruined movies like Bourne and Bond.

I feel a photograph/still can capture everything an image is trying to say better than a moving image sometimes, and so having the movie go into slo-mo shows not just the 'beauty/whatever' of a scene, but also allows you take in all that is going on and it's detail, thus getting more information from it. Basically it allows you to be more involved and absorbed by it. So I like Snydey doing this. There endeth the movie leshon. kthxbai
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:00 pm

I still wanna go on the record and say that I hate John Woo and all his OVERDOING of this technique though.

DID YOU HEAR ME GUYS?!!?!? I SAID I'M READY TO GO ON THE RECORD!!!
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Wiccan Woman on Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:20 pm

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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby DennisMM on Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:35 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:I dig all that slo mo stuff. Certainly take that over all that shitty rapid cut and shaky cam shit that has ruined movies like Bourne and Bond.

I feel a photograph/still can capture everything an image is trying to say better than a moving image sometimes, and so having the movie go into slo-mo shows not just the 'beauty/whatever' of a scene, but also allows you take in all that is going on and it's detail, thus getting more information from it. Basically it allows you to be more involved and absorbed by it. So I like Snydey doing this. There endeth the movie leshon. kthxbai


So, you enjoy La Jetée, I take it?
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:07 pm

The problem with the slow motion, is that it can ruin the timing of a scene. When over used it drains all the excitement out of a scene and can telegraph a moment that is supposed to have impact, destroying any surprise, leaving the scene as flaccid as Doctor Manhattan's cock. I'm not a proponent of shaky cam either. I think all this stuff is just parlor tricks, meant to detract the audience from realizing the ineptitude of the cinematographer.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby burlivesleftnut on Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:27 pm

Retardo_Montalban wrote:The problem with the slow motion, is that it can ruin the timing of a scene. When over used it drains all the excitement out of a scene and can telegraph a moment that is supposed to have impact, destroying any surprise, leaving the scene as flaccid as Doctor Manhattan's cock. I'm not a proponent of shaky cam either. I think all this stuff is just parlor tricks, meant to detract the audience from realizing the ineptitude of the cinematographer.


Personally I didn't notice it all that much in Watchmen, but I kind of find it outrageous that you sum up this technique as "ineptitude of the cinematographer". I could under stand that bias for movies with the quick cuts, although I certainly disagree with it (if anyone, blame the editor), but in Watchmen, there were mad skills represented with the cinematography. Now whether you appreciate the technique or not, don't blame the dude who filmed it. The work in Watchmen was beautiful. Other than a few CGI flubs, visually the movie is near perfection.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:58 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:
Retardo_Montalban wrote:The problem with the slow motion, is that it can ruin the timing of a scene. When over used it drains all the excitement out of a scene and can telegraph a moment that is supposed to have impact, destroying any surprise, leaving the scene as flaccid as Doctor Manhattan's cock. I'm not a proponent of shaky cam either. I think all this stuff is just parlor tricks, meant to detract the audience from realizing the ineptitude of the cinematographer.


Personally I didn't notice it all that much in Watchmen, but I kind of find it outrageous that you sum up this technique as "ineptitude of the cinematographer". I could under stand that bias for movies with the quick cuts, although I certainly disagree with it (if anyone, blame the editor), but in Watchmen, there were mad skills represented with the cinematography. Now whether you appreciate the technique or not, don't blame the dude who filmed it. The work in Watchmen was beautiful. Other than a few CGI flubs, visually the movie is near perfection.


I didn't sum the technique up as ineptitude of the cinematographer, I summed up the over use of it as ineptitude. Not just slow motion, but shaky cam as well. It was a general statement that applies to all of these "signature styles". It applies to bullet time, to bleached out film, shaky cam, slow motion, multiple angles of the same scene, simultaneous pan and zoom, fish eye lenses, colored gels, super up close shots, etc... Blame the editor? why? I don't know who chose to swing that way, I don't know if it was something that Snyder was 100% sure on either. I never even mentioned the film maker or even Snyder by name. I was talking about the over use of these tricks in general. I said that there were scenes where I thought it worked very well. I also said that there was some beautiful stuff in this movie, but I still see a lot of his slow motion as a crutch. Any technique can be brilliant if used well, but I think Snyder over used it. The colors, the lighting, and composition was very well done. The movement and timing made me look at my watch a few times.

If you like the slow motion stuff, then good for you, maybe you'll watch this movie more than once. I get bored by it.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby papalazeru on Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:40 am

burlivesleftnut wrote:
Retardo_Montalban wrote:The problem with the slow motion, is that it can ruin the timing of a scene. When over used it drains all the excitement out of a scene and can telegraph a moment that is supposed to have impact, destroying any surprise, leaving the scene as flaccid as Doctor Manhattan's cock. I'm not a proponent of shaky cam either. I think all this stuff is just parlor tricks, meant to detract the audience from realizing the ineptitude of the cinematographer.


Personally I didn't notice it all that much in Watchmen, but I kind of find it outrageous that you sum up this technique as "ineptitude of the cinematographer". I could under stand that bias for movies with the quick cuts, although I certainly disagree with it (if anyone, blame the editor), but in Watchmen, there were mad skills represented with the cinematography. Now whether you appreciate the technique or not, don't blame the dude who filmed it. The work in Watchmen was beautiful. Other than a few CGI flubs, visually the movie is near perfection.



I'd tend to agree. Zack reigned in after 300 and it works so well, so much so I even clapped in some of the more violent slow mos. The intro sets up the fighting motif so well so we know what to expect in the following fight scenes, which are well timed to keep the pace going to an explosive finale in nearly every one.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:22 am

I thought the score was quite brills, even if it was a bit derivative.

However the score didn't really go with the film, so it turned out rubs.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Pacino86845 on Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:31 am

I think Fried Gold is fish.

Fried Gold is a spatula.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby burlivesleftnut on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:34 am

Pacino86845 wrote:I think Fried Gold is fish.

Fried Gold is a spatula.


ROFL.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby BuckyO'harre on Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:23 pm

Dagnabbit!
I chortled while eating hot soup.

...and used "dagnabbit" on a public forum. :oops:
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby MasterWhedon on Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:30 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:Yeah, I thought this was a real winner. As a few of you know, I didn't even care for the comic that much. My expectations were pretty low going in, but I got really caught up in the story and the characters. It wasn't perfect. Some of the cgi was a little off, a lot of the make-up sucked, and the classic hits they chose were a little too on the nose, but none of that detracted from the story.

One of the things I liked about this that I just didn't get from the comic was that these people were striving to be heroic. I liked how much Silk Spectre and Nite-Owl enjoyed getting back in the game, and I really enjoyed that Snyder upped the action quotient with them. The alley scene and prison riot were just spectacular. You could really feel the joy these people felt in getting back to their roots as heroes.

I don't have too much too say, but I will probably read back and debate some stuff with you guys later, but I will close with this: I REALLY liked the ending. This will probably sound like blasphemy, but I wouldn't even mind a sequel to see where this new world goes. I especially liked that Laurie and Dan didn't go into hiding like in the comic. That always bugged me. They made this decision to keep Ozymandias' shit a secret and then run off, which kind of contradicted the point that the world did need heroes like them.

Oh and movie Silk Spectre > comic Silk Spectre. She was 100,000% less whiney cliched woman hero in the movie.

Word. Just... word.

I saw this again over the weekend and I thought it played much, much better the second time. I was able to let go of all the cumbersome expectations I had going in and take it as it is, and I'm really pleased with how it turned out. (I seem to have the same experience with a lot of event movies I'm overly anticipating.) I still think/assume the director's cut will play even better for folks like me, but my fiance and two friends who saw it with me--all three of them uninitiated--really, really enjoyed themselves.

Personally, I couldn't disagree more with the gripes over the way Snyder shoots his fight sequences. The way he choreographs the action with camera movements, editing rhythms, speed ramps and music creates a really unique, visceral experience that beautifully highlights some of the most brutal parts of the fight. I've already said I understand how it's "wrong" for Watchmen (though I don't have a problem with it) and I guess I see how some people see it as being unnecessarily showy, but I don't know if I could enjoy Snyder's fight scenes more--especially in 300, the overblown campfire tale that it is.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Heyoucantlaughatthat on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:01 pm

I agree with Whedon about the fight scenes. I went in expecting to be bothered by the slo-mo, but I barely even noticed I was so into the scene.

I was talking to a friend of mine about the differences in the action scenes in Watchmen and The Dark Knight. As I much as I appreciate the stiff realness that Nolan was going for in TDK, it was nice to see nonpowered crimefighters just KICKING some ASS in Watchmen.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:48 pm

CARUSO WATCHES WATCHMEN; REVIEWS

First off, I took a leak before going to the theater because I didn't want to take any bathroom breaks. I don't eat in the theater, because if I eat I will want to drink something and if I drink I will have to take a leak and miss the movie. Right around the TERMINATOR SALVATION preview I felt a sensation like I had to piss. I ignored it. I shouldn't have.

As for the movie itself, I'll say that I enjoyed it quite a bit. The opening wasn't great, in my opinion. I was trying to get into the movie, but they kept throwing these Dick Tracy Richard Nixon Pat Buchanan lookin' motherfuckers at me. But the opening credits were fucking incredible. I hate that Bob Dylan fucker, but his idiotic ramblings worked well here and I was about ready to start crying for some goddamn reason. Maybe it was because I was only eight minutes into the movie and I had to piss already, but the scene where it shows Silhouette and her girlfriend murdered got to me. Anyway, good fucking credits. Really sets the goddamn mood.

It was kinda weird when all the punching scenes showed up because the film is mostly about people talking and also there is some sexual content. So it was kind of off-putting when the punching happened. Also, everybody started saying one-liners and stuff which was kinda weird. But not in a bad way. The sex scene on the magic floating owl ship was pretty good. Not as, like, something to jerk off to. I just thought it worked really well as a scene overall. Also, there was sex.

The movie contains music.

I thought with everybody talking about Manhattan's dick that it would be a distraction. But there are no shots where its all pressed up in your face area or anything. The actors are all good. Jeffrey Dean Morgan was great as The Comedian and it's too bad the character didn't get more attention, but then it was the same in the comic book so I won't complain. Malin Akerman somehow manages to make Laurie likable and also I enjoyed her breasts. Of course Rorschach is everybody's favorite (except burl, who liked Nite-Owl) and Jackie Earle Haley is perfect in the role. He sounds like Clint in his prime and its great to see a little guy beating the shit out of everybody.

I have no real complaints except that with all the various shit going on the plot tends to take the back seat. Who killed The Comedian? Who's orchestrating... well, whatever it is that is being orchestrated? That stuff tends to get pushed to the sidelines. But again the same thing happened in the comic book. One benefit I can see from the extended cut is that the escalation of global bullshit can be showed and all the stuff with the people in the street being all on edge and shit. Kinda like THE ABYSS, when they cut out all the stuff about the rising tensions and threat of nuclear war. It kinda helps the payoff when the audience knows the stakes. So it'll be nice to see if all that stuff is in the longer version. I think we can do without the Black Freighter shit and the Hollis Mason stuff, though.

Also, substituting Manhattan for the squid is not a big deal. Same result. Don't see the problem. Though it still would've been cool to see that squid.

I don't know if I really connected with this film. Did I really get to know the characters? Do I give a shit about them? Do I care what the nefarious scheme is or who is perpetrating it? I don't know. But it was a good fuckin' time at the movies.

Post-movie piss: 2 minutes 16 seconds.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby burlivesleftnut on Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:37 pm

Rorschach wasn't my favorite. I liked Nite-Owl the best.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:44 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:Of course Rorschach is everybody's favorite (except burl, who liked Nite-Owl) and Jackie Earle Haley is perfect in the role.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nick on Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:57 am

All I know is after watching the first hour of Little Children then watching all of Watchmen Jackie Earle Haley is freaking awesome.

I wish I had seen Little Children or at least know SOMETHING about him before seeing him at BNAT.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Heyoucantlaughatthat on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:02 am

caruso_stalker217 wrote:Post-movie piss: 2 minutes 16 seconds.


Man, the theater I go to has $4 icees, but FREE REFILLS. I would accept an icee even if I was naked in the middle of Antarctica. I Usually have 2 before the movie even starts. THAT shit will mess with your bladder. But I made sure not to get one before Watchmen because, as you said, I couldn't afford to miss a second.

And just so this post isn't all about pissing and icees, I will restate that I really liked Matthew Goode as Ozy. I knew I was gonna like Rorschach and Comedian going in, but I would say that he was definitely a pleasant surprise.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:12 am

This film is definitely gonna get me looking into Haley, since I've been hearing about him for several years now. It's kinda cool to see him in WATCHMEN with the Clint Eastwood voice and everything and then watch him in interviews and he's this really soft-spoken dude with purple-tinted sunglasses.

I didn't know jack shit about Goode except that he's been in nothing but movies I've never seen and I really liked him here, too. He's not as "cool" a character as Comedian or Rorschach, but he is very convincing as a gay anti-villain with a cartoon lion.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nachokoolaid on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:28 am

I noticed a lot of people are bitching about the music (I'm one of them). But I think that other films ruined me on some of the musical choices. For example, during the funeral, I couldn't help picturing Frank the Tank being darted and falling into a swimming pool. And you would think Snyder wouldn't want people picturing a giant green ogre during a sex scene that's sort of important. Did he not know that ENTIRE song was used quite well in SHREK? "All Along the Watchtower" might have worked in the Vietnam scenes, but it seemed out of place in the Arctic.

I did like the opening credits quite a bit, and the song choice there was good. I also thought that "I'm Your Boogie Man" for the riot scene was perfect. And although I hated it at first, when I remembered that "99 Red Balloons" was actually a song about nuclear warheads, I didn't hate it as much as I originally did.

The music was one of the weaker parts of the film though, at least in my opinion.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:39 am

Although I didn't make any direct connections to other uses of the songs on the soundtrack, many of them did sort of stick out and made me take some distance from the story... I dunno, maybe their timing was off or they were too obviously injected into the film.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Nachokoolaid on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:42 am

Pacino86845 wrote:Although I didn't make any direct connections to other uses of the songs on the soundtrack, many of them did sort of stick out and made me take some distance from the story... I dunno, maybe their timing was off or they were too obviously injected into the film.


Yeah, to me All Along the Watchtower just seemed too loud for such a quiet scene. Honestly, just lowering the volume there would have helped.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:08 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:I noticed a lot of people are bitching about the music (I'm one of them). But I think that other films ruined me on some of the musical choices. For example, during the funeral, I couldn't help picturing Frank the Tank being darted and falling into a swimming pool. And you would think Snyder wouldn't want people picturing a giant green ogre during a sex scene that's sort of important. Did he not know that ENTIRE song was used quite well in SHREK? "All Along the Watchtower" might have worked in the Vietnam scenes, but it seemed out of place in the Arctic.

I did like the opening credits quite a bit, and the song choice there was good. I also thought that "I'm Your Boogie Man" for the riot scene was perfect. And although I hated it at first, when I remembered that "99 Red Balloons" was actually a song about nuclear warheads, I didn't hate it as much as I originally did.

The music was one of the weaker parts of the film though, at least in my opinion.

I've said above that the music was fine, but just didn't seem to quite fit the film in a lot of places - overly foreboding at times or too upbeat in others. That said, the music during the Watchmaker sequence was quite fantastic and spot on.

The use of The Sound of Slience was possibly quite apt for the scene I thought, especially if Snyder was taking into account the original meaning of the song.

Yeah, All Along The Watchtower did seem a bit odd there. I seem to remember it crossing the end of one scene and the beginning of the Karnak scene, but can't quite be sure what it was. Also seemed a bit much after using Dylan in the titles so well.

Hallelujah has been done to death. Shrek used it well, as you say, and even Scrubs in a meaningful way. Here, unfortunately, the song is now seemingly only associated with some Pop Idol winner.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Hermanator X on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:14 pm

Some of the songs did seem a little out of place, such as watchtower as mentioned here, but I loved the tears for fears "musak", even though the same gag was used in dawn of the dead.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:18 pm

I should add...ending the film by going straight into that My Chemical Romance song was rubs.

Should've used the Muse song from the trailer.
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Re: (Watching The) WATCHMEN! Reviews & Spoilers!

Postby Pacino86845 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:20 pm

Fried Gold wrote:I should add... rubs.


Pee Wee Herman was arrested for doing that in a movie theatre.
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