R.I.P. Proof

Sigur Ros is the greatest living band. Discuss.

R.I.P. Proof

Postby MasterWhedon on Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:39 pm

The D-12 member and best friend of Eminem was fatally shot last night at a club in Detroit. CNN has the story HERE.

Not that I've ever been a huge fan of the man's music, but I see this as yet another tragic loss for the rap community.

It was said to have started as an argument--presumably something trivial--which escalated into violence. When will this shit stop?
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Postby so sorry on Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:42 pm

what stop?
people killing each other over dumb arguements?
ummm, that'll stop once we're all dead.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:51 pm

so sorry wrote:what stop?
people killing each other over dumb arguements?
ummm, that'll stop once we're all dead.

Yes, yes, you got me there.

I was referring more to the senseless, almost habitual resortment to violence in the rap community--particulary the harder, "gangsta" variety. I know there are a million other issues compounding situations like this, but it sickens me to see a young man like this have his life cut short because of something so silly.
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Postby John-Locke on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:35 pm

The sad thing is this will help to sell D12 records, something Eminem has even rapped about (not the D12 part, just rappers at war with eachother selling records for the suits). If the guy who shot him was also a rapper I'd expect him to get a record contract as a result.

BOOOOO!

It's a sad state of affairs.
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:37 pm

How come you don't see guys like Jason Mraz or John Mayer involved with violent shootings and stuff? I'd be all for that.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:40 pm

Serves the rap community right for glorifying violence like this all the time. Oh, but they're not REEALLY glamorizing it are they, they're just SHOWING it.

Yeah bollox!
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Postby so sorry on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:42 pm

yeah, an east coast west coast feud bewteen K Fed and Tobey Kieth.
that would be awesome.
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Postby Belac on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:46 pm

I thought the news was a joke at first.

I was never completely into his music, but I definitely liked some of his stuff and in freestyles with Eminem and interviews, etc. he always seemed like a really cool dude.

His song, "Kurt Kobain," is excellent and somewhat eery now.

I wish I could take it back... I wish I could take it back... but it's too late...
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Postby Belac on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:48 pm

The glorification of violence in the hip hop community is sickening (perpetuated by rich, white CEOs) but sadly I don't think this will make any difference. The deaths of Biggie and 2pac, who had much more influence, certainly didn't. It made things worse, if anything.
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Postby havocSchultz on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:50 pm

so sorry wrote:yeah, an east coast west coast feud bewteen K Fed and Tobey Kieth.
that would be awesome.


hahahhaha...POPOZAOILASH...

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Postby HollywoodBabylon on Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:12 pm

havocSchultz wrote:
so sorry wrote:yeah, an east coast west coast feud bewteen K Fed and Tobey Kieth.
that would be awesome.


hahahhaha...POPOZAOILASH...

Image



They'd probably use water pistols.
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Postby MadCapsule on Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:21 pm

HollywoodBabylon wrote:
so sorry wrote:yeah, an east coast west coast feud bewteen K Fed and Tobey Kieth.
that would be awesome.



They'd probably use water pistols.



"Yeeeaaahh! What's good, cracka!? What's really good!?" *squirt squirt squirt*
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Postby dimnix on Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:08 pm

This fucking sucks.

And no, it doesnt 'serve them right'. Proof was a genuinely talented lyricist, came across as a really nice guy, and did alot for the detriot hip hop community. He still hosted rap battle events and was happy to give people a chance to drop by his detriot studio, always happy to see what they could do and help them out.

He was an intelligent guy. If you want an idea of his character, you know the character of 'future' in 8 mile? (played by mekhi pheiffer) that's proof.

And as for this talk of "glorifying" violence... fuck, johnny cash had songs about killing people. You got a problem with him?

I am a hiphop fan, I really enjoyed the first d12 cd, and I've always really liked Proof as a rapper.

I'm fucking gutted by this news.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:22 pm

dimnix wrote:This fucking sucks.

And no, it doesnt 'serve them right'. And as for this talk of "glorifying" violence... fuck, johnny cash had songs about killing people. You got a problem with him?


I guess I do with Johnny Cash then. Any music that glorfies violence and is mass marketed to the public, including kids I tend to be disgusted at.

As for 'serves them right' comment. Yeah, I guess I sorta had that reply coming. I guess I only meant it in a general sense, so many guys that seem to be glorifying gangster violence, there's no way you can tell me that they don't have that kinda thing coming to them. Those that aren't doing so, who knows? Can't comment too much on Proof, but it did sound to me that he's involved in this kind of argument with the guy, then he plays a certain role in it's nature and consequence also.

It just seems that those that are involved in Hip Hop violence are usually enforcing it to a certain point also. Schoolyard rules, you play by them, you're responsible to yourself for getting into trouble too.
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Postby unikrunk on Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:41 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
dimnix wrote:This fucking sucks.

And no, it doesnt 'serve them right'. And as for this talk of "glorifying" violence... fuck, johnny cash had songs about killing people. You got a problem with him?


I guess I do with Johnny Cash then. Any music that glorfies violence and is mass marketed to the public, including kids I tend to be disgusted at.

As for 'serves them right' comment. Yeah, I guess I sorta had that reply coming. I guess I only meant it in a general sense, so many guys that seem to be glorifying gangster violence, there's no way you can tell me that they don't have that kinda thing coming to them. Those that aren't doing so, who knows? Can't comment too much on Proof, but it did sound to me that he's involved in this kind of argument with the guy, then he plays a certain role in it's nature and consequence also.

It just seems that those that are involved in Hip Hop violence are usually enforcing it to a certain point also. Schoolyard rules, you play by them, you're responsible to yourself for getting into trouble too.


soap box. that is all.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:45 pm

unikrunk wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
dimnix wrote:This fucking sucks.

And no, it doesnt 'serve them right'. And as for this talk of "glorifying" violence... fuck, johnny cash had songs about killing people. You got a problem with him?


I guess I do with Johnny Cash then. Any music that glorfies violence and is mass marketed to the public, including kids I tend to be disgusted at.

As for 'serves them right' comment. Yeah, I guess I sorta had that reply coming. I guess I only meant it in a general sense, so many guys that seem to be glorifying gangster violence, there's no way you can tell me that they don't have that kinda thing coming to them. Those that aren't doing so, who knows? Can't comment too much on Proof, but it did sound to me that he's involved in this kind of argument with the guy, then he plays a certain role in it's nature and consequence also.

It just seems that those that are involved in Hip Hop violence are usually enforcing it to a certain point also. Schoolyard rules, you play by them, you're responsible to yourself for getting into trouble too.


soap box. that is all.


???
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Postby havocSchultz on Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:26 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
unikrunk wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
dimnix wrote:This fucking sucks.

And no, it doesnt 'serve them right'. And as for this talk of "glorifying" violence... fuck, johnny cash had songs about killing people. You got a problem with him?


I guess I do with Johnny Cash then. Any music that glorfies violence and is mass marketed to the public, including kids I tend to be disgusted at.

As for 'serves them right' comment. Yeah, I guess I sorta had that reply coming. I guess I only meant it in a general sense, so many guys that seem to be glorifying gangster violence, there's no way you can tell me that they don't have that kinda thing coming to them. Those that aren't doing so, who knows? Can't comment too much on Proof, but it did sound to me that he's involved in this kind of argument with the guy, then he plays a certain role in it's nature and consequence also.

It just seems that those that are involved in Hip Hop violence are usually enforcing it to a certain point also. Schoolyard rules, you play by them, you're responsible to yourself for getting into trouble too.


soap box. that is all.


???


Image ???????
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:34 pm

Havoc, I DON'T get it!! Just explain.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:37 pm

I am convinced that violent hip hop music, and the outrageously
offensive media marketing machine that propels it, is funded by
some kind of KKK cabal of rich white rascist demagogues. This
music seems tailor made to reinforce to poor, young, urban black
youth that money is all that matter and killing your friends is cool.

I fucking hate it.

And the shame of it is there is super cool positive hip hop out there
written by intelligent artists who actually give a fuck about what they
are saying beyond bling bling, booty, and shooting each other in the
face.

Artists like THE ROOTS, COMMON, TALIB KWELI, MOS DEF, et al.
You never EVER hear that stuff on the radio.

But everyone and his mother knows that fuckin' 50 Cent got shot
in the face 35 times and how cool that is.

I fucking hate it.

HATE IT.

WAKE THE FUCK UP, PEOPLE.

Shut this nonsense down.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:43 pm

50 Cent even made a film about it, therefore 'redeeming' his violent past somewhat eh?

Yeah, like fuck!

I still get the implression deep down that he digs it. He hasn't renounced violence that much in my eye. Not that I want anything of his in my eye, mind you.
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Postby so sorry on Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:52 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:I am convinced that violent hip hop music, and the outrageously
offensive media marketing machine that propels it, is funded by
some kind of KKK cabal of rich white rascist demagogues. This
music seems tailor made to reinforce to poor, young, urban black
youth that money is all that matter and killing your friends is cool.

I fucking hate it.



I always crack up when someone comes up with the "cabal of rich white racists running the show" conspiracy.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:55 pm

so sorry wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:I am convinced that violent hip hop music, and the outrageously
offensive media marketing machine that propels it, is funded by
some kind of KKK cabal of rich white rascist demagogues. This
music seems tailor made to reinforce to poor, young, urban black
youth that money is all that matter and killing your friends is cool.

I fucking hate it.



I always crack up when someone comes up with the "cabal of rich white racists running the show" conspiracy.


Well, naturally I'm not entirely serious.

Although if I found out it was the case, I wouldn't be surprised.
Crazier, eviler things have happened, yaknow?
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Postby unikrunk on Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:55 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:I am convinced that violent hip hop music, and the outrageously
offensive media marketing machine that propels it, is funded by
some kind of KKK cabal of rich white rascist demagogues. This
music seems tailor made to reinforce to poor, young, urban black
youth that money is all that matter and killing your friends is cool.

I fucking hate it.

And the shame of it is there is super cool positive hip hop out there
written by intelligent artists who actually give a fuck about what they
are saying beyond bling bling, booty, and shooting each other in the
face.

Artists like THE ROOTS, COMMON, TALIB KWELI, MOS DEF, et al.
You never EVER hear that stuff on the radio.

But everyone and his mother knows that fuckin' 50 Cent got shot
in the face 35 times and how cool that is.

I fucking hate it.

HATE IT.

WAKE THE FUCK UP, PEOPLE.

Shut this nonsense down.

So, please help me out. I am an avid hip-hop fan, and am not clear on which artists are out there are cashing in on violence and all this.

I'm serious. I can not think of one commercially successful hip hop artist in the past 10 years that is doing what you and Kirks are talking about. Yes, there are some ‘way off the radar’ people that certainly are, but if we are speaking of a sphere of influence that is as large as you are implying, a cabal of ill intending, hand-wringing villains, I just don’t see it.

Also, why are you picking hip hop culture to take offence to? I am quite sure you enjoy a good violent movie, or maybe some black/death metal; why does violence in hip hop bother you, and not violence in general?

/Kirks. A soap box. You stand on it when you are preaching in the park. I am getting off of mine now
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Postby Ribbons on Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:57 pm

Immediately made me think of this song:

"Talk is cheap, motherfucker/ if you're really feeling froggish, leap"/
"Yo Slim/ you gonna let him get away with that?
He tried to play you/ you can't let him skate with that"
Man I hate this crap/ this ain't rap/
This is crazy/ the way we act
When we confuse hip-hop with real life/ when the music stops.


Contempt for the white man's cabal of glorifying the gangsta lifestyle though some of you may have, Eminem and D12 were always outspoken against rap battles erupting into violence. I don't know whether or not Proof practiced what he preached, nor if this was the result of an argument or something else, but it makes me sad. Senseless death is never a good thing.
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Postby so sorry on Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:08 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
so sorry wrote:Although if I found out it was the case, I wouldn't be surprised.
Crazier, eviler things have happened, yaknow?


Right, like the Jews and George Bush knowing about the 9/11 attacks :wink:
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:12 pm

unikrunk wrote:I can not think of one commercially successful hip hop artist in the past 10 years that is doing what you and Kirks are talking about.


Well, again, 50 Cent for one? I'm I right or wrong there. I dunno, I went off Hip Hop a long time ago so I ain't as clued up as you are. Wether or not he's containing violent references in his records to make a success or whatever, it sure as hell don't help his influence to the young generation that buy it. I know about the likes of KRS1, but he was speaking out 'against violence in Hip Hop' quite openly, and I'm sure there's other artists out there who refer to it in their music.


Look at the very least, you can't argue with me that violence isn't a part of the music or it's culture, wether or not a commercially successful artist has used it to become this success - this success isn't what I'm upset about, it's violence in this music in general - but the fact that it is so featured and that there has to be anti violent rappers (or maybe not enough of them) shows that it is at an unnacceptable level.


unikrunk wrote:Also, why are you picking hip hop culture to take offence to? I am quite sure you enjoy a good violent movie, or maybe some black/death metal; why does violence in hip hop bother you, and not violence in general?


The thing is dude, is that I hate violence that is out of place, or overdone, or just plainly wrongly used in any form of media or entertainment. I, for the most part don't like the way it's portrayed in films and certianly in any forms of ANY music that I listen to. A lot of the times it does piss me off. I hate the way that John Travolta dismisses the overuse of violence in his John Woo films (cause it's done in a poetic fashion, means it's OK? Fuck Off!) and unless it's done in a anti violent way or an honest way, I tend to get disgusted at it.

Dunno why you said that I'm on a Soap box. I'm nowhere near being preachy in my opinion, just being upset and voicing a few concerns.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:18 pm

unikrunk wrote:a sphere of influence that is as large as you are implying, a cabal of ill intending, hand-wringing villains, I just don’t see it.


Dunno where you're getting that impression from in my comments. I certainly didn't mean it. Hard to define a villain in Hip Hop, just as in any other environment. Sure there's an amount of people that are carrying guns and are pretty tough going indivduals, but you know villain or not, ill intentions or not, it's a violent picture, and that's dangerous enough.
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Postby doglips on Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:20 pm

dimnix wrote:This fucking sucks.

And no, it doesnt 'serve them right'. Proof was a genuinely talented lyricist, came across as a really nice guy, and did alot for the detriot hip hop community. He still hosted rap battle events and was happy to give people a chance to drop by his detriot studio, always happy to see what they could do and help them out.

He was an intelligent guy. If you want an idea of his character, you know the character of 'future' in 8 mile? (played by mekhi pheiffer) that's proof.

And as for this talk of "glorifying" violence... fuck, johnny cash had songs about killing people. You got a problem with him?

I am a hiphop fan, I really enjoyed the first d12 cd, and I've always really liked Proof as a rapper.

I'm fucking gutted by this news.


Ditto those sentiments, this is very sad news.

Proof was a very talented lyricist and had a great, off the radar solo career.
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Postby unikrunk on Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:03 pm

Kirks, it's all good, it was an honest question, and please note that I was quoting and responding to ZombieZone. The only thing directed at you in either of my posts was the soap box, and the general opinion that hip hop is teh devil. Hey, I thought you were being preachy, sue me.

And if you are "not up on it", why talk about it?

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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:09 pm

unikrunk wrote:Kirks, it's all good, it was an honest question, and please note that I was quoting and responding to ZombieZone. The only thing directed at you in either of my posts was the soap box, and the general opinion that hip hop is teh devil. Hey, I thought you were being preachy, sue me.

And if you are "not up on it", why talk about it?

Whiskey.
Tango.
Foxtrot.


WTF. HAHAHA!!! Sorry, to be quite honest I'm not reading this thread 100%. I shouldn't have said 'probably deserved it' really maybe. Certainly not proof maybe. He might/might not have provoked the shooting for my knowledge. I guess I mean the people involved in violence, in general. I still have knowledge of Hip Hop, just not as much as I used to/wanted to. I'm up on it, but not a great deal anymore.

I still don't think Hip Hop's the Devil, but sure is more hostile than I want it to be. Me being on a Soap Box?

Yeah, I'll sue you. Sue Cagle you!!!!!

Man, Jack Lemmon's daughter is HOT!!
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:14 pm

unikrunk wrote:So, please help me out. I am an avid hip-hop fan, and am not clear on which artists are out there are cashing in on violence and all this.

I'm serious. I can not think of one commercially successful hip hop artist in the past 10 years that is doing what you and Kirks are talking about. Yes, there are some ‘way off the radar’ people that certainly are, but if we are speaking of a sphere of influence that is as large as you are implying, a cabal of ill intending, hand-wringing villains, I just don’t see it.

Also, why are you picking hip hop culture to take offence to? I am quite sure you enjoy a good violent movie, or maybe some black/death metal; why does violence in hip hop bother you, and not violence in general?


First, I hate death metal. I think its, quite simply, totally ALF.
In addition, the demographic for this music is affluent white suburban
teenagers who, by and large, do not live in poverty, are not shooting
each other, or getting shot at.

In addition, I'm not talking about "hip hop culture" (whatever the fuck
that means). Are you implying African Americans there or something?
I was talking about hip hop music that glorifies violence; music targeted
and marketed specifically to poor inner city youth. Essentially, the kids
I teach every day. The kids who shoot each other over things like
sneakers and G-Unit sweatshirts. Because, according to Fitty, shooting
your friends and getting shot at is pretty much the coolest thing you
can do.

And the kids believe it.

Also, if you read my post you will see that I mentioned several hip hop
acts who promote postivity and cooperation and music and art and love
and all that good stuff. These are acts that get slim to no airplay; their
only mainstream exporsure coming from the likes of Dave Chappelle
(who deserves a nobel peace prize just for that, not to mention being
the funniest guy on the planet.) I wonder why they aren't played?
Because they promote positivity and involvement and education rather
than snortin' all the yay, pimpin' hoes, and shooting each other?

Things that make you go hmm...

In terms of mainstream acts who rake in cash by pushing the idea
that they are murderers and thats cool? Okay, off the top of my head --
50 Cent and The Game for starters.

So please, tell me, where do you live? Have you ever gone hungry?
Have you ever been shot at? Have you ever been addicted to drugs?
Do you know who your father is? Did you go to underfunded schools?

If you don't think that negative messages more gravely effect students
who live in at-risk situations, then you are, quite simple, living in a
fantasy land.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:33 pm

so sorry wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Although if I found out it was the case, I wouldn't be surprised.
Crazier, eviler things have happened, yaknow?


Right, like the Jews and George Bush knowing about the 9/11 attacks :wink:


Actually, I was referring to things like The Tuskogee Syphillis Experiment in which:

[i]For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,â€
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:55 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:In addition, the demographic for this music is affluent white suburban
teenagers who, by and large, do not live in poverty, are not shooting
each other, or getting shot at.


fair enough...

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:music targeted and marketed specifically to poor inner city youth. Essentially, the kids
I teach every day.


um, which one is it? What sort of clueless record exec is gonna target the kids who CAN'T AFFORD to buy the albums?

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:The kids who shoot each other over things like
sneakers and G-Unit sweatshirts. Because, according to Fitty, shooting
your friends and getting shot at is pretty much the coolest thing you
can do.

And the kids believe it.


yah, 'cuz the economically distressed HAVE NEVER BEFORE IN ALL OF RECORDED HISTORY NEVER, EVAR RESORTED TO VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND???!!!! Blaming this, attributing this to "gangsta rap", "hip-hop", "rock and roll" (oh, yes, THEY DID!) "comics" (ditto), "flappers" (double ditto), alcohol (well, they might've had a point with that, but what are we gonna do, outlaw booze again?) ignores, um, logic, reason and an understanding of humanity.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Also, if you read my post you will see that I mentioned several hip hop
acts who promote postivity and cooperation and music and art and love
and all that good stuff. These are acts that get slim to no airplay; their
only mainstream exporsure coming from the likes of Dave Chappelle
(who deserves a nobel peace prize just for that, not to mention being
the funniest guy on the planet.) I wonder why they aren't played?
Because they promote positivity and involvement and education rather
than snortin' all the yay, pimpin' hoes, and shooting each other?

Things that make you go hmm...


um, generally speakin', 'cuz there beats SUCK FUCKIN ASS! Go back and listen to De La's masterpiece De La Soul is Dead for the hysterical commentary throughout the album 'bout how some folks feel about "arty" hip-hop..."if you flip it on 45 so maybe I could dance to it...".

Now, of the acts you mentioned, Blackthought of the Roots has some flow, but he ain't all that (and plus, their beats, even tho' I respect the live instrumentations, ain't all that), Common is just that, common, Talib's got some flava but try puttin' his shit on in a dancehall and see what the crowd does, ditto for Mos.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:In terms of mainstream acts who rake in cash by pushing the idea
that they are murderers and thats cool? Okay, off the top of my head --
50 Cent and The Game for starters.


someone once said "write what you know". So IF, IF you grow up in an environment where you gotta hustle to get some goddamn flow, JUST WHAT THE FUCK ELSE YOU GONNA WRITE ABOUT?

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:If you don't think that negative messages more gravely effect students
who live in at-risk situations, then you are, quite simple, living in a
fantasy land.


to quote Maude Flanders..."Won't somebody please think about the children?" 'Cuz really, from my vantage point, you come off exactly like the reactionaries who wanted to BAN COMICS, BAN ROCK AND ROLL, BAN DANCING, BAN THOSE DAMN GIRLS WHO WEAR RISQUE CLOTHING.

I'm a motherfuckin' consumer of all forms of pop-culture and essentially you're saying to me that this should be banned, that a "Parental Warning" (HA!) sticker isn't enough. Isn't it up to our goddamn no good gov't to FUND our schools, isn't it up to the individuals to make sure that their kids hear these songs IN CONTEXT? 'Cuz it sounds like you just wanna ban this stuff, you wanna censor it. And to that I say :twisted: :P :roll:.
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Postby DennisMM on Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:06 pm

I'm sorry to hear about Proof. I don't know D-12's music, but the name is familiar to me and I've heard good things about him as a performer.

The culture of violence pisses me off. I don't see many action-oriented movies or other particularly violent movies. I don't listen to music that glorifies violence, though I will admit to a liking for the occasional track that might do so. Most of the country music about murder is told from the point of view of rather pathetic characters who are to be pitied and shunned, not the cool killers of death metal and hip-hop.

Getting beyond the actual music involved, I propose a simple way to minimize or at least make far more difficult the kind of violence described that breaks out at clubs, concerts, parties and festivals of various sorts (where Tupac accidentally shot and killed a little kid -- and where 3 people in the Denver area were shot and killed following a dispute at a CHRISTENING party!), recording studios, etc.

Outlaw handguns. Long guns can be used for defense at home and in public. Why bother to conceal them? Showing your gun makes it clear you are armed and not to be fucked with.

You can kill someone with a knife, a bludgeon or even your bare hands, but you have to get in close and have much bigger balls than are needed to draw and fire a concealed handgun.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:10 pm

KCBC mate, as far as I'm concerned we're getting above the situation. At the very least, it's really shit don't you think, if Rappers go out there writing about what they know and all that, if they're gonna do it in a promoting or glamorising way, and not using their artisitic or any possible influential responsibility to go out there and denounce this kinda stuff like they should be doing. Sure some are, but not the likes of 50 Cent etc.

At the very least, wether or not people will copy or turn to such acts of violent portrayal and it's glamorizations in these records, you gotta agree that bragging about violence or making it look cool or positive is pretty wrong thing to do.

You can't tell me that what they're doing is OK, and should be ignored. Even if a few people are influenced to commit acts of violence as a direct/indirect reaction to these records, surely that's and enough.

Anyway, years ago when I was into all this stuff, the Hip Hop that loads of people would buy and would fill a dance floor wasn't the aggressive gangsta rap Hip Hop, many people didn't go for it. One of the reasons why myself and others stop buying it, was that it Hip Hop and R 'n' B, did take on this more aggressice tough manner.

Maybe it's just the trends, or the changing preferences of music, but less hostile feeling Hip Hop music doesn't have less place on the dancefloor, or radio play, or in anyone's collection than more hostile sounding stuff does.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:33 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:It's really shit don't you think, if Rappers go out there writing about what they know and all that, if they're gonna do it in a promoting or glamorising way, and not using their artisitic or any possible influential responsibility to go out there and denounce this kinda stuff like they should be doing. Sure some are, but not the likes of 50 Cent etc.


don't really realize if you know this Kirks, but (unfortunately) we live in a capitalistic society. If there is a market for such a thing, who's to say what can and cannot be "rapped" about? YOU call it glamorizing, 50 will call it makin' a buck, something that corporations do on a daily basis. Now, several corporations make products THAT KILL PEOPLE EVERYDAY, cigarettes and alcohol being among them. Should we ban them Kirks? Fast food is responsible for any number of health issues, should we not ban that as well? Guns...well, I'm anti guns (and thank you Dennis for that salient point). But I think you see what I'm gettin' at here.

and I really don't get this line of reasoning that these people have to use their "artistic" or "influential responsibility" in any way other than gettin' paid. What your sayin', essentially, is that any product that's a detriment to the youth should henceforth be banned? Guess kids won't be drivin' cars 'til they hit 25 or so, guess the "thought police" are something you would be down with...not I sir. I give you Marty Scorsese as an example. Now, I view Taxi Driver as a powerful message, as a great film, OTHERS took Travis to be a hero. That's their interpretation of that art, what differs here? Some rappers are very, very skilled at laying out what it takes to be a dealer...the one's I like (Wu Tang, Clipse) do it in such a way that it feels like an episode of the Wire told from Avon and Stringer's (no Omar's in the hip-hop world, yet) p.o.v.. Others might glamorize it, but to me, there is no greater thing than free speech. Motherfucker has a right to spit about whatever the hell they want, CONSEQUENCES BE DAMNED! That's right, I said it.

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:you gotta agree that bragging about violence or making it look cool or positive is pretty wrong thing to do.


um, no, I don't. Violence has been glamorized in literature since the Odyssey (and 'prolly even before that, but that's the first thing that springs to mind). We've made icons of our "warriors" since time immortal. I don't know the how and why behind it, nor do I necessarily agree with it, but go get your fuckin' shinebox, ok?

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:You can't tell me that what they're doing is OK, and should be ignored. Even if a few people are influenced to commit acts of violence as a direct/indirect reaction to these records, surely that's and enough.


once again, you've said nothing that doesn't come off EXACTLY like the comic book code of the 50's, like all those people who were so against Rock 'n Roll and Jazz.

until the time you are named supreme overlord of everything, I will respectfully disagree with your views. And when that dreaded day occurs...well, yessir, take my women, take my songs, eradicate all violence from TV, movies, books, comics and film. I'll be in the back weeping.
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Re: R.I.P. Proof

Postby Bean on Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:44 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:The D-12 member and best friend of Eminem was fatally shot last night at a club in Detroit. CNN has the story HERE.

Not that I've ever been a huge fan of the man's music, but I see this as yet another tragic loss for the rap community.

It was said to have started as an argument--presumably something trivial--which escalated into violence. When will this shit stop?


Yeah but doesn't that make this guy automatically a rap legend?
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:47 pm

Yo, yo, yo, it's Keepcool the Consumer Rebel in the house, yo!

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:um, which one is it? What sort of clueless record exec is gonna target the kids who CAN'T AFFORD to buy the albums?


Oh come on, the CDs aren't that expensive. Plus theres radio airplay,
which seems exclusively devoted to the worst and most ALF acts
who reinforce the most irresponisble violent behavior and pointless,
empty materialism.

Again, of course, I said that I wouldn't be surprised that there
was conspiracy, not that there actually was one, gentleman.

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:uyah, 'cuz the economically distressed HAVE NEVER BEFORE IN ALL OF RECORDED HISTORY NEVER, EVAR RESORTED TO VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND???!!!! Blaming this, attributing this to "gangsta rap", "hip-hop", "rock and roll" (oh, yes, THEY DID!) "comics" (ditto), "flappers" (double ditto), alcohol (well, they might've had a point with that, but what are we gonna do, outlaw booze again?) ignores, um, logic, reason and an understanding of humanity.


I didn't say it created the behaviors, I said it reinforces them.
Clearly the behaviors arise out of anger, fear, and malaise from
growing up poor in an urban wasteland. Trust me, it's my job to
teach these kids, so I know what I'm talking about.

Of course I realize that the real problems exist and must be changed
on the street level; on a political level. I never said that I wanted to ban
the music, I just said that it sucks and I wish it would go away. I wish
a true spirit of creativity and uplift would take hold, not this endless
bling bling bullshit. Aaron McGruder seems to agree with me 100%,
btw, in case you've ever seen or read his work.

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:um, generally speakin', 'cuz there beats SUCK FUCKIN ASS! Go back and listen to De La's masterpiece De La Soul is Dead for the hysterical commentary throughout the album 'bout how some folks feel about "arty" hip-hop..."if you flip it on 45 so maybe I could dance to it...".

Now, of the acts you mentioned, Blackthought of the Roots has some flow, but he ain't all that (and plus, their beats, even tho' I respect the live instrumentations, ain't all that), Common is just that, common, Talib's got some flava but try puttin' his shit on in a dancehall and see what the crowd does, ditto for Mos.


Are you fuckin' kidding me? Have you actually even ever heard any of
the acts I mentioned? And, oh, like 50 Cent has good beats? Not only
are his beats awful, his flow sucks, and all he spits is goofy ass violent
nonsense about going to the candyshop.

Btw, have you ever considered the fact that DE LA SOUL were being
ironic? Next you're gonna say Tribe Called Quest sucks.

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:someone once said "write what you know". So IF, IF you grow up in an environment where you gotta hustle to get some goddamn flow, JUST WHAT THE FUCK ELSE YOU GONNA WRITE ABOUT?


Someone else also said, "write what sells;" they were a record and/or
advertising exec most likely.

Anyways, okay then, how about writing about how awful it was; about
how getting organized and taking a political stand is the way to go;
solidarity with your bothers and sisters, not hating them or killing them;
getting an education; believing in yourself; not shooting your friends and
buying useless shit.

Besides, I don't buy his bio for one second. I think its largely made up.

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:to quote Maude Flanders..."Won't somebody please think about the children?" 'Cuz really, from my vantage point, you come off exactly like the reactionaries who wanted to BAN COMICS, BAN ROCK AND ROLL, BAN DANCING, BAN THOSE DAMN GIRLS WHO WEAR RISQUE CLOTHING.

I'm a motherfuckin' consumer of all forms of pop-culture and essentially you're saying to me that this should be banned, that a "Parental Warning" (HA!) sticker isn't enough. Isn't it up to our goddamn no good gov't to FUND our schools, isn't it up to the individuals to make sure that their kids hear these songs IN CONTEXT? 'Cuz it sounds like you just wanna ban this stuff, you wanna censor it. And to that I say :twisted: :P :roll:.
[/quote]

Thats because you are muthafuckin' consumer rebel, g! Yo, yo, yo,
check out this fake corporate culture I bought cause its cool and now I
have an indentity! You have the luxury to not give a shit, cause nobody
ever said you a role model, yo!

And you know what, I do have to think about the children, because my
fucking job is TO TEACH THEM, and hopefully help them to better
themselves and raise themselves up out of the neverending cycle
of death that exists in the ghetto. I don't have the luxury to sit around
and not give a shit, like you apparently do, and then spout this consumer
rebel bullshit in my face. Your just another trick, a mark, being pimped
junk culture nonsense cause you got the mad disposable consumer
cash.

FINALLY, I never said I wanted to ban it. I vigorously support free
speech in all its forms, no matter how fucking stupid and usless it is. I
just wish it would go the fuck away. Why? Because its pure shit that
merely reinforces the worst in human behavior. If this offends you, go
ahead and prove how much of a rebel you are and keep sucking the
corporate shit machine. Maybe next month they'll market a guy who got
shot 11 times and lived to make a dumb ass movie about it. I'm sure
it will be off the hook.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:35 pm

full disclosure:

1. I've never bought a 50 Cent album. So you can take the consumer rebel bit and suck it. Plain fact is I STEAL most of the music I listen to. So quit playin' THAT card. It ain't cool bein' a Zombie round some mofo with a Zombie Survival Guide handy :P.

2. I've been down with Aaron McGruder well before you son, so step the fuck off. Got ALL the Boondock trades, you smarmy condescending cock weasel. Oooh, throwin' a known black intellectual in my face, shall I list the OTHER black intellectuals who not only defend 50's right to say what he says, but are down with WHAT he says as well? You score no points with that.

3. Your a studly ass right? I thought you dropped something along those lines, so what the fuck you know about club hits son? Ever been in a club when Common ("I HATE GAYS", yah, GREAT MESSAGE!) Sense gets spun...oh that's right, HE DON'T GET NO PLAY IN THE CLUB 'CUZ HIS BEATS IS WHACK!

4. D'uh, De La was bein' both ironic AND pointing out how the black community at large (ya' know, the black community, WHO DIDN'T buy 6 million copies of their album, that was the white kidz, like myself) ignored them. Something they've lamented for years since, how when they tour it's to a 90% WHITE audience. Nice try tho' son, keep up the pointless blathering 'bout shit you no nuthin' about :P.

5. Um, not only have I heard the wanna be Native Tongue sounds of typically Common, da Roots, Talib "find me a good producer PLEASE" Kweli and Mos "should stick w/rap" Def, I gave my opinion of them. An informed opinion who realizes that hip-hop encompasses more than just WHITE WANNA-BE PSUEDO INTELLECTUALS think it should. But I've also got a t that says "Fuck Art, Let's Dance", something one can do to 50, and not the acts you mentioned.

6. FULLEST DISCLOSURE: I was a MINORITY in my high school. That's right, went to a school where white wasn't right. Been havin' this debate with foolz like you since college. So tell me, oh Mr. "I'm SO SUPERIOR TO YOU 'CUZ THIS IS WHAT I DO FOR A LIVIN'", is my opinion less valid now? Run your liberal guilt shit on someone else, gets you nuthin' from my vantage point.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Your just another trick, a mark, being pimped
junk culture nonsense cause you got the mad disposable consumer
cash.


funniest. line. evar. How many posts do you have here you flaming hypocrite? You don't BUY things? You don't go SEE movies? 'Cuz unless I'm mistaken, you SAID you bought the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and Liars albums, no? Oh, that's right, your a rebel 'cuz your taste is SO superior. Do you ONLY buy stuff from "indies", do you only see independent film ('course not, you've seen Kong, I suppose, what with your relentless bashing of it).

c'mon, I came here, after avoiding this topic all day, to get into a discourse 'bout the "evils" of "gangsta" rap, to find the one person I thougth I could discuss this with without him resorting to a flame war (YOU, Zombie, takin' the braindead schtick to greater heights than expected in your response) spouting off some ridiculous, unwarranted and pointless vitriol...and Kirk, KIRK of all people, was the civil and thoughtful one. What the hell has the Zone turned into when you can get Kirks to give you a decent response, and you, oh superior one, delves into petty name calling?
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:42 pm

Fucking Hell I got work to do!!! :D :wink: Oh well in for a penny...

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:don't really realize if you know this Kirks, but (unfortunately) we live in a capitalistic society. If there is a market for such a thing, who's to say what can and cannot be "rapped" about? YOU call it glamorizing, 50 will call it makin' a buck, something that corporations do on a daily basis. Now, several corporations make products THAT KILL PEOPLE EVERYDAY, cigarettes and alcohol being among them. Should we ban them Kirks? Fast food is responsible for any number of health issues, should we not ban that as well?


Good God man, you're so over generalising, it looks like you're trying to get me to lose the point. Fast food IS being considered a threat to people's lives through bad health and I do feel something should be done about. And heh, we are. Again, the manufacturers of this 'product' just like rap lyrics, have a choice in making something that could be bad for people, in any tiny or small way. They're doing something about it if they can, if not, they should. Others are doing so instead. I never said I anything about me wanting to BAN violent lyrics anyway, where did I say 'exactly' that? Don't put words into my mouth. It's too busy already with my brother's Snake Image in there.

Again, choice. Rappers have a choice that they're stuff could be deemed potentially bad for some people, just like fast food joints or whatever. Both should take that responsibilty.

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:and I really don't get this line of reasoning that these people have to use their "artistic" or "influential responsibility" in any way other than gettin' paid.


Well, I take it you're an intelligent human being, and therefore I'd like to think that they are greater responsibilities that people have to this world other than getting paid. Sheesh. There's a responsibility that they can use their experience and gift of lyric to try to educate listeners to do something good with themselves, but again, this is not some rule that they have to obey, but considering that there are some people, hypathetically or practically, that could be encouraged to such acts of violence in records by listening to them, it's something taht these artists shouls consider. Again, at the very least, they have an oppotunity to discourage violence, and they seem to be doing the opposite.


Keepcoolbutcare wrote: What your sayin', essentially, is that any product that's a detriment to the youth should henceforth be banned? Guess kids won't be drivin' cars 'til they hit 25 or so, guess the "thought police" are something you would be down with...not I sir.


Not saying that 'essentially'. I tell you my thoughts on banning things, I don't go for it mostly, and I don't believe there should be banning in this case, as I think that the banning of free speech is far worse than the kind of lyrics that we are talking about here. I belive in freedom of expression and speech - don't mean I agree with what some people are using this speech for. I can complain a little or sulk a little about it - voice my opinion and express my feelings through speech just like certain rappers - don't mean that people should like it or shut me down, thus the same for certain literature, just that I'd like it to be listened to and considered. So, if people don't like my comments, fine, if I don't like certain lyrics, fine, I've done all I feel I should and can do, I'll say I don't approve, and that's that. I won't be up for banning, just complaining.

Anything that's a detriment to the youth be banned? No, I expect it to be as careful and as considerate and safe as possible, within it's ambitions of course. It's waht I'm asking about in this particular case. I don't think it's being done enough.

keepcoolbutcare wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:you gotta agree that bragging about violence or making it look cool or positive is pretty wrong thing to do.


um, no, I don't. Violence has been glamorized in literature since the Odyssey (and 'prolly even before that, but that's the first thing that springs to mind). We've made icons of our "warriors" since time immortal. I don't know the how and why behind it, nor do I necessarily agree with it, Image


You don't think that bragging about violence is a wrong thing to do? WTF?!?! Do you have any idea how stupid and wrong you sound? Man, that just shows you were you're coming from in this argument. I should rest this debate here and end this conversation if you're gonna talk like that. You couldn't MORE be in the wrong for saying that. I won't go any further into this, or I'll be here all day. I'll move on to what else you said in that quote which isn't much of a backup for what you say, otehr than a list of historical facts, and maybe not even that.

Yes, violence has been glamourised throughout history - that don't make it right or a good thing, it merely shows that this interpretation has been continuing all these centuries. It don't make it right though, no way. Yes, we've made icon of our warriors, and I like to think that we do so because they were brave enough to sacrifice for what they believed in, and that they did it as they had no choice. I honour their courage in battle, it don't mean I have seen violence glamourized. Heroics glamourised. That's a double edged sword of a subject. There's a dangerous, tragic side to heroics. That has to be considered. It's not always a good or easy thing to be the hero.

You also say at the end oif your little paragraph there, that you DON'T necessarily agree with it. That sounds like you're contradicting yourself there man. That ain't good in this talk. Earlier you say that glamourising violence isn't a bad thing to do, the next you say that 'violence has been glamorized in literature since the Odyssey. We've made icons of our "warriors" since time immortal. I don't know the how and why behind it, nor do I necessarily agree with it' ImageWell you either agree or disagree with it or you don't. You look like both, and that ain't right. If you don't know, that ain't right either. In both cases, you have gotta be straight on the subject for this talk.


Keepcoolbutcare wrote:but go get your fuckin' shinebox, ok? Image ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage


OK, this is what troubles me. Number 1. This is like telling me to 'Fuck Off' and not in a good way. Number 2. If this is in reference to what Joe Pesci was told in Goodfellas, as everyone who says this line mostly seem to quoting this scene, well in response to 1 and 2, Fuck you Keepcoolbutcare. You're being a Struggling Background Artist and betraying the rules of the PZ. Keep on like that mate, and you and I are gonna fall out, and besides you'll be in bigger trouble with people other than myself for talking to me like that.

Other than that, forgive me if this is not the case, and it's my trademark lack of understanding Image that can't make out what you mean by that. It's that it reas SO MUCH like a shocking 'Fuck You with meaning' that it really feels like a huge attack. I'm sure you don't mean it in the way that I have described it to hopefully NOT be, and maybe there's a joke in there somewhat in which case, :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: ImageImageImageImage ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:You can't tell me that what they're doing is OK, and should be ignored. Even if a few people are influenced to commit acts of violence as a direct/indirect reaction to these records, surely that's and enough.


Keepcoolbutcare wrote:once again, you've said nothing that doesn't come off EXACTLY like the comic book code of the 50's, like all those people who were so against Rock 'n Roll and Jazz.


Doesn't really answer my questions though does it, much like your other responses, that have just been deflecting a good deal of the time. Er, so what if I am? I'm not anyway. The way I see it is from a relative point of view, I think that 50s music is not as potentially harmful to people the way that certain Hip Hop is. Along the way in this music, someone could directly/indirectly get into a violent situation moreso than I think 50s music could be dangerous to listeners then. Also I do believe furthermore that people who are even more likely to be involved in violence, are even more reason not to have so much music out there potentially encouraging violence, as rappers who have this type of history aren't helping these guys get out of it, and dissuading them from it. It's sort of like saying, yeah go ahead, I did it, why not you? Bit of a double standard.

Look I ain't preaching about banning this type of stuff, I'm just saying that I don't agree with it, whilst it's out there being free and breathing. I ain't saying that it's completely or 100% repsonsible for violence out there either. I just hate it when people blow the situation up and saying that it's nowhere near as dangerous as other people say it is, when in fact they weren't quite saying it was this responsible in the first place.

I do think there is a certain encouragement that certain artists create, I think all of this encouragement littered here and there, albeit not totally responsible for the acts that people commit, do, blended with other things, slowly add up to it. But it has a choice not just not to, but to also do some good and fight it. It's got an avenue, it should take it. It doesn't. I complain.

Now, for the last 10 minutes, I've heard the 4.30 fucking morning songbirds telling me that daybreak's about to hit. Therefore I gotta hit - the sack. Image

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:until the time you are named supreme overlord of everything, I will respectfully disagree with your views. And when that dreaded day occurs...well, yessir, take my women, take my songs, eradicate all violence from TV, movies, books, comics and film. I'll be in the back weeping.


That sounds like sarcasm.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:56 pm

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:full disclosure:

1. I've never bought a 50 Cent album. So you can take the consumer rebel bit and suck it. Plain fact is I STEAL most of the music I listen to. So quit playin' THAT card. It ain't cool bein' a Zombie round some mofo with a Zombie Survival Guide handy :P.

2. I've been down with Aaron McGruder well before you son, so step the fuck off. Got ALL the Boondock trades, you smarmy condescending cock weasel. Oooh, throwin' a known black intellectual in my face, shall I list the OTHER black intellectuals who not only defend 50's right to say what he says, but are down with WHAT he says as well? You score no points with that.

3. Your a studly ass right? I thought you dropped something along those lines, so what the fuck you know about club hits son? Ever been in a club when Common ("I HATE GAYS", yah, GREAT MESSAGE!) Sense gets spun...oh that's right, HE DON'T GET NO PLAY IN THE CLUB 'CUZ HIS BEATS IS WHACK!

4. D'uh, De La was bein' both ironic AND pointing out how the black community at large (ya' know, the black community, WHO DIDN'T buy 6 million copies of their album, that was the white kidz, like myself) ignored them. Something they've lamented for years since, how when they tour it's to a 90% WHITE audience. Nice try tho' son, keep up the pointless blathering 'bout shit you no nuthin' about :P.

5. Um, not only have I heard the wanna be Native Tongue sounds of typically Common, da Roots, Talib "find me a good producer PLEASE" Kweli and Mos "should stick w/rap" Def, I gave my opinion of them. An informed opinion who realizes that hip-hop encompasses more than just WHITE WANNA-BE PSUEDO INTELLECTUALS think it should. But I've also got a t that says "Fuck Art, Let's Dance", something one can do to 50, and not the acts you mentioned.

6. FULLEST DISCLOSURE: I was a MINORITY in my high school. That's right, went to a school where white wasn't right. Been havin' this debate with foolz like you since college. So tell me, oh Mr. "I'm SO SUPERIOR TO YOU 'CUZ THIS IS WHAT I DO FOR A LIVIN'", is my opinion less valid now? Run your liberal guilt shit on someone else, gets you nuthin' from my vantage point.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Your just another trick, a mark, being pimped
junk culture nonsense cause you got the mad disposable consumer
cash.


funniest. line. evar. How many posts do you have here you flaming hypocrite? You don't BUY things? You don't go SEE movies? 'Cuz unless I'm mistaken, you SAID you bought the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and Liars albums, no? Oh, that's right, your a rebel 'cuz your taste is SO superior. Do you ONLY buy stuff from "indies", do you only see independent film ('course not, you've seen Kong, I suppose, what with your relentless bashing of it).

c'mon, I came here, after avoiding this topic all day, to get into a discourse 'bout the "evils" of "gangsta" rap, to find the one person I thougth I could discuss this with without him resorting to a flame war (YOU, Zombie, takin' the braindead schtick to greater heights than expected in your response) spouting off some ridiculous, unwarranted and pointless vitriol...and Kirk, KIRK of all people, was the civil and thoughtful one. What the hell has the Zone turned into when you can get Kirks to give you a decent response, and you, oh superior one, delves into petty name calling?


*Yawn* What are you like 12 years old?

But, I'm seriously, I love it when white kids try to be all "down."
Its so precious! Run along and play now, "son." Perhaps you
will discover some new "phat slammin' trax" at the shopping
mall. Clikity Clow!

Good night and good luck with all that you hope to achieve; just
remember, tomorrow is another day and you won't always be so
very, very PWNT.

Wiggity wiggity wack.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:58 pm

ooh, notice the IRONY folks?

he calls me 12 and resorts to 11 year old playground bullshit psychout shenanigans....THE WIT!!!
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Postby John-Locke on Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:04 am

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Wiggity wiggity wack.


BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

IPAMPILASH
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:27 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
Keepcoolbutcare wrote:but go get your fuckin' shinebox, ok? Image ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage


OK, this is what troubles me. Number 1. This is like telling me to 'Fuck Off' and not in a good way. Number 2. If this is in reference to what Joe Pesci was told in Goodfellas, as everyone who says this line mostly seem to quoting this scene, well in response to 1 and 2, Fuck you Keepcoolbutcare. You're being a Struggling Background Artist and betraying the rules of the PZ. Keep on like that mate, and you and I are gonna fall out, and besides you'll be in bigger trouble with people other than myself for talking to me like that.


Kirks, however, does NOT understand the IRONY of my citing one of THE most brutal scenes in cinema history, right after my "I don't know the how and why behind it, nor do I necessarily agree with it" line.

and, what's more, if you really feel I was attacking you in any way, I'm sorry. Didn't mean any offense at all, actually, and have been rather enjoying this debate, until now. So I humbly apologize if you took offense, wasn't meant as a "fuck off", but rather to show WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GUY WHO SAID "fuck off". Tried to use...ah, forget it. Once again, my apologies.

but I gotta throw this in, you MUST'VE been kiddin' with this doozy

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:"Keep on like that mate, and you and I are gonna fall out, and besides you'll be in bigger trouble with people other than myself for talking to me like that."


um, WHAT?!?!? Even if, for the sake of argument, I did tell you to "fuck off", just WHO'S GONNA PUNISH ME :shock:?!?!?! Will you report me for harassment :shock:? Send some goon to Virginia to tell me I'm funny :lol:? Have me, gasp, banned :shock:? Ensure none of my scripts see fruition (WAY ahead of you there buddy)? Just curious Image?

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Other than that, forgive me if this is not the case, and it's my trademark lack of understanding Image that can't make out what you mean by that. It's that it reas SO MUCH like a shocking 'Fuck You with meaning' that it really feels like a huge attack. I'm sure you don't mean it in the way that I have described it to hopefully NOT be, and maybe there's a joke in there somewhat in which case, :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: ImageImageImageImage ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage


I fuckin' loathe whoever it was who gave Kirks access to "fun" emoticons. We all know he couldn't have found them on his own :wink:. See, what's wrong with just using one?

(and yes, I realize by pointing this out Kirk will now be throwin' those bad boys all over the place...IRONY!)

All I gotta say now is, if you would have explained yourself THAT thoroughly and indepth in the first place, I would never have commented on the previously vague generalizations that I took umbrage with.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:35 am

Fuck both of you.

NO...WAIT...I WAS KIDDI....................................

(THUNDERCLAP)

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Postby doglips on Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:15 am

It was probably an elementary argument like this that got Proof shot.
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Postby unikrunk on Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:09 am

Hey ZombieZone, great, you don’t like death metal; me either. First, let me thank you for responding to my question…with nothing. I was asking you to point out and help me understand what you were basing your opinions on. It seems that you think there is a large majority of hip hop music that glorifies and advocates violence; I disagree, and would like a better understanding of your decision making process.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:In addition, I'm not talking about "hip hop culture" (whatever the fuck that means). Are you implying African Americans there or something?


If you don’t know what I mean by hip hop culture, you should not be discussing this matter. You are out of fucking touch, and frankly “out of your fucking element Donnyâ€
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:37 pm

unikrunk wrote:Hey ZombieZone, great, you don’t like death metal; me either. First, let me thank you for responding to my question…with nothing. I was asking you to point out and help me understand what you were basing your opinions on. It seems that you think there is a large majority of hip hop music that glorifies and advocates violence; I disagree, and would like a better understanding of your decision making process.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:In addition, I'm not talking about "hip hop culture" (whatever the fuck that means). Are you implying African Americans there or something?


If you don’t know what I mean by hip hop culture, you should not be discussing this matter. You are out of fucking touch, and frankly “out of your fucking element Donnyâ€
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Postby TonyWilson on Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:52 pm

FUUUUCK. And I came here, after being on the Guardian unlimited comment website all day, to get away from political cultural arguments.

I'm going to have to read this whole thread now and post a suitable response. Damn it.
Elitism is positing that your taste is equivalent to quality, you hate "Hamlet" does it make it "bad"? If you think so, you're one elite motherfucker.
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Postby unikrunk on Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:12 pm

RIDICULOUSILASH!

Zombie, it seems we are saying the same basic thing, but are having a communication meltdown, and we disagree with a few points.

Regarding marketing - The bullshit gangsta shit is marketed to suburban white kids, not the kids you teach. That is a fact. It may influence the kids that you have contact with, but it is certainly not marketed to them. What is marketed to them? Drugs and social indifference.

Regarding the ratio of positive and community oriented hip hop music to destructive crap: 10% rule. The other 90% of what I see and hear is positive, and attempts to message exactly what you do everyday…get your shit together, stop fucking around, and get the fuck out of the nightmare.

Thank you for finally addressing my query, and allowing me insight to your thought process. See, it was not that hard, was it? It’s actually a lot easier than talking down to others.
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