Elvisly Yours......Or Maybe Not? The King Reassessed

Sigur Ros is the greatest living band. Discuss.

Is Elvis Presley Overrated?

Yes
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42%
No
19
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Total votes : 33

Postby minstrel on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:02 pm

The Vicar wrote:
Peven wrote:Tape, do you know Elvis is purported as saying the only thing a Black man could do for him was shine his shoes?


Bull talk from some asshat who wouldn't have had a career without the sweat & genius of black men who were better than he was.
They created.
Elvis stole.
What did Presley do, other than bloat out on drugs and die a sad, pathetic Vegas lounge lizard on the crapper?
King of rock & roll my ass.
Elvis was a douche.


If stealing from black men makes one a douche, then nearly every white guy who ever played rock'n'roll is a douche.

Rock. The music of douchebags.

Sorry, Vic. I don't buy it.
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Postby Peven on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:11 pm

minstrel wrote:
The Vicar wrote:
Peven wrote:Tape, do you know Elvis is purported as saying the only thing a Black man could do for him was shine his shoes?


Bull talk from some asshat who wouldn't have had a career without the sweat & genius of black men who were better than he was.
They created.
Elvis stole.
What did Presley do, other than bloat out on drugs and die a sad, pathetic Vegas lounge lizard on the crapper?
King of rock & roll my ass.
Elvis was a douche.


If stealing from black men makes one a douche, then nearly every white guy who ever played rock'n'roll is a douche.

Rock. The music of douchebags.

Sorry, Vic. I don't buy it.


Minstrel, the difference being that many great rock musicians openly give credit where credit is due; Black American musicians. from the Beatles, to Clapton, to Stevie Vie(sp?), etc, etc. meanwhile, Elvis acted like he invented rock-n-roll and was apparently a bigoted sonofabitch to boot.
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Postby so sorry on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:16 pm

Peven wrote:Elvis acted like he invented rock-n-roll


Is this a true statement, or a Peven-ization?

SErious question, not trying to get you mad... I'm no Presleyologist, so I don't know the guys history or his soundbites, but I'd venture a guess that he never got old enough to turn into a Chubby Checker-like "I invented rock and roll" kinda guy.
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Postby Peven on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:21 pm

so sorry wrote:
Peven wrote:Elvis acted like he invented rock-n-roll


Is this a true statement, or a Peven-ization?

SErious question, not trying to get you mad... I'm no Presleyologist, so I don't know the guys history or his soundbites, but I'd venture a guess that he never got old enough to turn into a Chubby Checker-like "I invented rock and roll" kinda guy.


since when does anyone around care if they get me mad? :wink: :D i'm not saying he ever said "i invented rock-n-roll", i was making a generalization about how he acted, how he billed himself as the King of rock-n-roll, and how i have never once heard or read an instance of him giving any credit to Black musicians who paved the way for him.
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Postby minstrel on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:27 pm

so sorry wrote:
Peven wrote:Elvis acted like he invented rock-n-roll


Is this a true statement, or a Peven-ization?

SErious question, not trying to get you mad... I'm no Presleyologist, so I don't know the guys history or his soundbites, but I'd venture a guess that he never got old enough to turn into a Chubby Checker-like "I invented rock and roll" kinda guy.


I echo this. I don't actually know much about Elvis. Some serious charges are being made against him in this thread without anybody giving references.

I know he didn't write songs. But does he deserve some credit for bringing black music to a large white audience? Would artists like Chuck Berry and Little Richard have achieved their popularity among white kids if Elvis hadn't been there? I dunno.

All I know is that he was a great singer. I don't want to debate his views on race, because I don't know what they were.
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Postby DennisMM on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:28 pm

Also, these views have nothing to do with the quality of his live performances and recordings. This is about Elvis the musical performer. Yo!
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Postby Peven on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:30 pm

you mean the f@t, bloated, rhinestone studded Vegas lush who waddled around on stage crooning 40 and 50-somethings with songs that put anyone under 30 to sleep??? :wink:
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Postby DennisMM on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:34 pm

That period is to be considered in the evaluation, yes.
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Postby minstrel on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:36 pm

Peven wrote:Minstrel, the difference being that many great rock musicians openly give credit where credit is due; Black American musicians. from the Beatles, to Clapton, to Stevie Vie(sp?), etc, etc. meanwhile, Elvis acted like he invented rock-n-roll and was apparently a bigoted sonofabitch to boot.


Of course many great white rock muscians acknowledge their sources and inspirations. Eric Clapton has practically made it a personal mission to get greater exposure for guys like BB King, Freddie King, Buddy Guy, and the rest.

But many others have never given this credit publicly.

And I don't know that Elvis "acted like he invented rock-n-roll". It's hard to act like that wearing sequins in Vegas. And several black musicians HAVE claimed to have invented rock-n-roll, among them Chuck Berry and Little Richard. They have stronger claims than Elvis does, but no one person did it all by themselves. So, to a certain extent, they are douches too for taking credit for the work of others without acknowledgment.

Elvis is a convenient target, because he was SO successful and he ended up the way he did. There's a lot of knee-jerk revisionism going on, some of which is probably unwarranted.

Facts ... I need more facts ...

:)
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Postby wonkabar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:43 pm

He didn't "steal" "black" music. Elvis' music was a mix of a lot of different southern styles (mainly hick/hillbilly type shit). It's not akin to say, Eminem...who is a white guy making money by performing 100% black music. Even the word "rock & roll".... doesn't come from the black community. It was coined by a white DJ...can't remember his name, but they made a movie about him with Judd Nelson.
You gotta remember that the south is a melting-pot of culture and musical sounds. Chuck Berry (where Rock really starts) was hugely influenced by country music (Hank Williams namely). Just as Elvis was a country-boy influenced by gospel and some R&B. But let me put it this way....
there weren't black kids on the corner singing shit like Blue Suede Shoes, Hound Dog or Love Me Tender....ever.
And if you want to talk about people claiming to have invented shit, look no further than Little Richard.
That fucker thinks that both Jimi hendrix and Prince "stole" from him...lol

Anyway, read up the two who paved the way...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Berry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis
Last edited by wonkabar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Vicar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:54 pm

Peven wrote:
minstrel wrote:
The Vicar wrote:
Peven wrote:Tape, do you know Elvis is purported as saying the only thing a Black man could do for him was shine his shoes?


Bull talk from some asshat who wouldn't have had a career without the sweat & genius of black men who were better than he was.
They created.
Elvis stole.
What did Presley do, other than bloat out on drugs and die a sad, pathetic Vegas lounge lizard on the crapper?
King of rock & roll my ass.
Elvis was a douche.


If stealing from black men makes one a douche, then nearly every white guy who ever played rock'n'roll is a douche.

Rock. The music of douchebags.

Sorry, Vic. I don't buy it.


Minstrel, the difference being that many great rock musicians openly give credit where credit is due; Black American musicians. from the Beatles, to Clapton, to Stevie Vie(sp?), etc, etc. meanwhile, Elvis acted like he invented rock-n-roll and was apparently a bigoted sonofabitch to boot.


Ole!
Well said.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:58 pm

Yes but what about Engelbert Humperdinck!!!?

Sorry This means nothing. I just wanted to say something here...
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Postby The Vicar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:02 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:Yes but what about Engelbert Humperdinck!!!?

Sorry This means nothing. I just wanted to say something here...


Just getting Eng. Hump's name into the mix was worth it.....seriously, how did that guy end up NOT killing both his parents for that?

Engelbert Humperdinck.
Wasn't that the name of the prince in Princess Bride?
Or a Danish porn film......
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:05 pm

wonkabar wrote:look no further than Little Richard.
That fucker thinks that both Jimi hendrix and Prince "stole" from him...lol


Hehehehe... Hendrix? No.

Prince? Definitely, eh? Especially a the hair...
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Postby Maui on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:09 pm

Wise Men say only fools rush in .................



8)
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Postby HollywoodBabylon on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:30 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
wonkabar wrote:lo ok no further than Little Richard.
That fucker thinks that both Jimi hendrix and Prince "stole" from him...lol


Hehehehe... Hendrix? No.

Prince? Definitely, eh? Especially a the hair...


Little Richard is the absolute tops! Mad as a hatter, the original tutti-frutti and as 'out there' as anyone else in rock music (for his time). A true one off who looked and sounded like some pre-acid sci-fi freak hell bent on giving us the devil's music in all it's screaming glory. Hail to the awopbopaloomopalopbamboo!
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:40 pm

HollywoodBabylon wrote:
DinoDeLaurent iis wrote:
wonkabar wrote:lo ok no further than Little Richard.
That fucker thinks that both Jimi hendrix and Prince "stole" from him...lol


Hehehehe... Hendrix? No.

Prince? Definitely, eh? Especially a the hair...


Little Richard is the absolute tops! Mad as a hatter, the original tutti-frutti and as 'out there' as anyone else in rock music (for his time). A true one off who looked and sounded like some pre-acid sci-fi freak hell bent on giving us the devil's music in all it's screaming glory. Hail to the awopbopaloomopalopbamboo!


I always liked Screamin Jay Hawkins...


But maybe Im just mad

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Postby The Vicar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:46 pm

I Put a Spell on You.....

great stuff.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:53 pm

wonkabar wrote:He didn't "steal" "black" music. Elvis' music was a mix of a lot of different southern styles (mainly hick/hillbilly type shit). It's not akin to say, Eminem...who is a white guy making money by performing 100% black music. Even the word "rock & roll".... doesn't come from the black community. It was coined by a white DJ...can't remember his name, but they made a movie about him with Judd Nelson.
You gotta remember that the south is a melting-pot of culture and musical sounds. Chuck Berry (where Rock really starts) was hugely influenced by country music (Hank Williams namely). Just as Elvis was a country-boy influenced by gospel and some R&B. But let me put it this way....
there weren't black kids on the corner singing shit like Blue Suede Shoes, Hound Dog or Love Me Tender....ever.

Spot on Wonka. Elvis was based more in country/rock-a-billy and Gospel than Blues or Jazz.

Perhaps a better poll would be "Overexposed".
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:58 pm

The Vicar wrote:I Put a Spell on You.....

great stuff.


I always liked Little Demon.

The Amazing Royal Crowns do a really good cover of it as well.

But I have always like SJH over Little Richard in regards to showmanship
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Postby The Vicar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:04 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:
The Vicar wrote:I Put a Spell on You.....

great stuff.


I always liked Little Demon.

The Amazing Royal Crowns do a really good cover of it as well.

But I have always like SJH over Little Richard in regards to showmanship


Me too, pal.
Me too.
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Postby minstrel on Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:19 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:
The Vicar wrote:I Put a Spell on You.....

great stuff.


I always liked Little Demon.

The Amazing Royal Crowns do a really good cover of it as well.

But I have always like SJH over Little Richard in regards to showmanship


CCR did a good cover, too. Whodathunk a California white boy like John Fogerty could muster up a howl like that?
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Postby Peven on Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:49 pm

the real King is Robert Johnson
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Postby Maui on Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:54 pm

minstrel wrote:
CCR did a good cover, too. Whodathunk a California white boy like John Fogerty could muster up a howl like that?


El Cerrito, California to be exact. :D
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Postby minstrel on Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:45 am

Peven wrote:the real King is Robert Johnson


King of what? He contributed mightily to the blues. But as Wonka pointed out above, the blues isn't the only ancestor of rock.

Anyway, Robert Johnson is enormously influential in American music - there's no question about that. But to say he's the King of Rock-n-Roll makes no sense.
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Postby The Vicar on Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:00 pm

Peven wrote:the real King is Robert Johnson


Excellent choice.
Better than Presley, and that's a fact.

If I could wave a magic wand, and make either Presley or Johnson spring back into life, I'm Reanimating Johnson.
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Postby St. Alphonzo on Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:08 pm

The Vicar wrote: I'm Reanimating Johnson.


Havoc's response in:

3

2

1

.....
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Postby The Vicar on Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:15 pm

St. Alphonzo wrote:
The Vicar wrote: I'm Reanimating Johnson.


Havoc's response in:

3

2

1

.....


oh shit
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Postby St. Alphonzo on Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:28 pm

It's odd that I haven't felt compelled to contribute to this thread until now.

Elvis opened doors that were previously closed. He melded Grand Ole Opry country crooning with a big studly rock-and-roll beat and made it almost (almost) acceptable to white moms and dads that their little Timmy was showing interest in (*gasp*) Race music. His performances pushed the boundries of what was considered acceptable to "polite" society. The man WAS rock-and-roll, in every sense of the phrase.

Would rock exist without him? Certainly. But it probably would have taken a few more years to bloom. He was the right person at the right time.

You could also argue that without him, the rest of the Sun stable would have remained in obscurity: Jerry Lee, Orbison, Carl Perkins (Cash woulda probably broke out on his own eventually).

That being said, the whole worship/deification thing is just beyond me.

EDIT: and I can't imagine a December without the Elvis Christmas Album :)


EDIT #2: Yo Dennis: Dylan was correct, 'cause there's a Church Of Elvis right here in my backyard! Or at least there was, and might be again!
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Postby buster00 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:50 pm

St. Alphonzo wrote:
EDIT #2: Yo Dennis: Dylan was correct, 'cause there's a Church Of Elvis right here in my backyard! Or at least there was, and might be again!


:shock: :lol:

Not only have I been there, I still carry their membership card in my wallet!

And I quote:

"The bearer of this card is a SAINT in the Church of Elvis. He or she may also be Elvis. Please treat them accordingly. Thank ya."


It's more of a SubGenius art museum than an Elvis shrine. It's pretty hysterical.
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Postby tapehead on Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:03 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
wonkabar wrote:lo ok no further than Little Richard.
That fucker thinks that both Jimi hendrix and Prince "stole" from him...lol


Hehehehe... Hendrix? No.

Prince? Definitely, eh? Especially a the hair...



...actually, Hendrix started off (after he left the army) playing bass in Little Richards touring band, and Richards is often given credit for influencing Hendrix's wild fashions and outrageous antics on-stage.
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Postby St. Alphonzo on Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:51 pm

buster00 wrote:Not only have I been there, I still carry their membership card in my wallet!

And I quote:

"The bearer of this card is a SAINT in the Church of Elvis. He or she may also be Elvis. Please treat them accordingly. Thank ya."



Thank ya. Classic!
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