Symphonies, where did they go?

Sigur Ros is the greatest living band. Discuss.

Symphonies, where did they go?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:20 pm

Yeah, i know it's a shit name for a thread, i couldn't think of a better one though.


So over 100 years ago (not pinning it down to a particular point in time, just, a while a go, a long time ago if you want, but in this galaxy, like a point in time you'd need to reach 88mph to get to, fuck it, bear with me here, i do have a point) there were a lot of classical composers, names that we remember, Beethoven. Mozart etc.

The musical direction in the second half of the 20th century seemed to put an end to that, we had songs, less complex, less length, less musicians, the conductor was no longer an integral part.

I'm trying to think of any artists that made it big making symphonies or movements in the last, well 60 years or so.

Would people like Mike Oldfield & Jean Michelle Jarre count?
They've made albums on a theme, kinda explored musically (except for that drunken sailor bit at the end of Tubular Bells).
Maybe even Kraftwerk with their albums that blend seamlessly from one track to the next.

Would all concept albums like The Rise & Fall Of Ziggy Stardust & The Spiders From Mars & The Wall fit the category?

Maybe the idea lives on through film scores?
Would Howard Shore's LOTR score count & if it did, would Vangelis's Blade Runner score also count?

Do you think we'll see the day when orchestras, be it electrical (no light, violins & perms do not a symphony make) or classical conducting live performances of these pieces of music?
User avatar
King Of Nowhere
SPAM Killer!
 
Posts: 6173
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:36 pm

Postby Nachokoolaid on Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:25 pm

I went to the symphony with my girlfriend, and I actually enjoyedit quite a bit. I don't know how to explain it, but you just can't recreate the sound of a live orchestra electronically.

I like to think Shore's LOTR stuff will live on for hundreds of years. Who knows.
User avatar
Nachokoolaid
THE DORK KNIGHT
 
Posts: 5588
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Gotham City

Postby King Of Nowhere on Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:32 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:I went to the symphony with my girlfriend, and I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. I don't know how to explain it, but you just can't recreate the sound of a live orchestra electronically.

I like to think Shore's LOTR stuff will live on for hundreds of years. Who knows.


I meant electric orchestras more for the Vangelis, Kraftwerk & Jean Michelle Jarre side of things.

I don't think anyone would pay to see Tubular Bells etc. preformed on standard MIDI keyboards.
User avatar
King Of Nowhere
SPAM Killer!
 
Posts: 6173
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:36 pm

Postby Nachokoolaid on Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:36 pm

Oh, I know. I wasn't really refering to your mention of electric performance. But rather those folks that buy orchestral performances on CD and such. Yes, it's similar, but it's just not the same as being there. Sorry for the mix up.
User avatar
Nachokoolaid
THE DORK KNIGHT
 
Posts: 5588
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Gotham City

Postby Lady Sheridan on Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:46 pm

I do think film scores are our modern equivalent of symphonies -- especially when you consider how many of them were done for opera or ballet.
User avatar
Lady Sheridan
RED
 
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Croft Manor

Postby papalazeru on Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:01 pm

100 years ago?

Haha!

Further back pal. Good Ole Rach was born in the late 1800's

If you want to trace the full history of the symphony you have to go back further than that.

Try boring old Bach (controversial, I know). St John's passion was good good stuff but Symphonies go further back than Beet oven (hehe)

Musical direction was still fantastic at the turn of the 20th century, Cage, Sondheim, Rogers and Hammerstein to name but a few.

Admitedly, towards the latter part of the century it died a death, only supported by people like Bernard Herman, and to latter extent (in the very very late 1900's) John Williams and Elfman but they are nothing as new as Cage with Pointilism, Berio with his Sinfonia and Webern with his Srting Quartets.

So I agree with you but I accuse the latter part of the 20th century rather than 100 years earlier.

And, oh yes....papa knows a little about music.

Yup...papa's got a brand new bag.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
User avatar
papalazeru
Not very classy! Not very classy at all!!
 
Posts: 11475
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:26 am

Postby Fried Gold on Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:07 pm

There are lots of composers in the 20th century, who've made some significant works:

Tavener, Einaudi, Ligeti, Glass...are names that spring to mind.

...but they don't really have the same impact as the names you listed above.

Orchestral music just doesn't have as wide an appeal anymore, possibly because there are so many more genres available to the listener now in comparison with the "classical era".

However, that film scores are still sought after shows that there is some market for it.
User avatar
Fried Gold
AIRWOLF PLUS
 
Posts: 13930
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

Postby King Of Nowhere on Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:09 pm

papalazeru wrote:100 years ago?

Haha!

Further back pal. Good Ole Rach was born in the late 1800's

If you want to trace the full history of the symphony you have to go back further than that.

Try boring old Bach (controversial, I know). St John's passion was good good stuff but Symphonies go further back than Beet oven (hehe)

Musical direction was still fantastic at the turn of the 20th century, Cage, Sondheim, Rogers and Hammerstein to name but a few.

Admitedly, towards the latter part of the century it died a death, only supported by people like Bernard Herman, and to latter extent (in the very very late 1900's) John Williams and Elfman but they are nothing as new as Cage with Pointilism, Berio with his Sinfonia and Webern with his Srting Quartets.

So I agree with you but I accuse the latter part of the 20th century rather than 100 years earlier.

And, oh yes....papa knows a little about music.

Yup...papa's got a brand new bag.


Well that's why i said Over 100 years ago & the whole "not pinning it down..." ramble.

& i did blame the second half of the 20th century.
Me wrote:The musical direction in the second half of the 20th century seemed to put an end to that, we had songs, less complex, less length, less musicians, the conductor was no longer an integral part.


My point was that kind of music was still huge untill the early 20th century i guess, then things like ragtime & early blues came in.
User avatar
King Of Nowhere
SPAM Killer!
 
Posts: 6173
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:36 pm

Postby papalazeru on Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:58 pm

king_of_nowhere wrote:
papalazeru wrote:1 00 years ago?

Haha!

Further back pal. Good Ole Rach was born in the late 1800's

If you want to trace the full history of the symphony you have to go back further than that.

Try boring old Bach (controversial, I know). St John's passion was good good stuff but Symphonies go further back than Beet oven (hehe)

Musical direction was still fantastic at the turn of the 20th century, Cage, Sondheim, Rogers and Hammerstein to name but a few.

Admitedly, towards the latter part of the century it died a death, only supported by people like Bernard Herman, and to latter extent (in the very very late 1900's) John Williams and Elfman but they are nothing as new as Cage with Pointilism, Berio with his Sinfonia and Webern with his Srting Quartets.

So I agree with you but I accuse the latter part of the 20th century rather than 100 years earlier.

And, oh yes....papa knows a little about music.

Yup...papa's got a brand new bag.


Well that's why i said Over 100 years ago & the whole "not pinning it down..." ramble.

& i did blame the second half of the 20th century.
Me wrote:The musical direction in the second half of the 20th century seemed to put an end to that, we had songs, less complex, less length, less musicians, the conductor was no longer an integral part.


My point was that kind of music was still huge untill the early 20th century i guess, then things like ragtime & early blues came in.


Well...both blues and modern romantic and comtemporary were moving together for a while ther ein the 40's and 50's then people seemed to slip into what was most comfortable.

It's very rare you see some greats now but that's mainly because alot is done and dusted and the fact that what is considered modern and popular is (and this is a generalisation) a dumbing down of themes, counterpoint and juxtaposition. Alot of people don't want to listen to it.

There are some greats though.

Failing that, there's always, Glenn Gould, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Louise Lortie and if anyone still has a copy (I do) a late recording of Rachmaninof playing his Piano conceto number 2.

But I digress, the symphony is still going strong to a certain degree; it became adopted by theatre, TV and film and has become another beast. It's not a bad thing but neither is it good. What it lacks in structure is made up for by progress; very much like thematic transformaton.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
User avatar
papalazeru
Not very classy! Not very classy at all!!
 
Posts: 11475
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:26 am

Postby Fievel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:11 pm

Symphonic music is alive and well, at least here in the United States. And if it's still being successfully produced here, it's being produced elsewhere as well. As far as full-fledged Symphonies, sure they're still being produced. Check any major music university. They're premiering new works all the time. The University Of North Texas is infamous for this. One of their faculty, Cindy McTee has written some pretty crazy shit herself.

Most modern composers (traditional) are focusing on "concert band" pieces - things that they can sell to University/High School bands. There is some truly amazing work in this field, though it's not symphonic (no strings). Samuel Hazo is a phenomenal modern composer.
User avatar
Fievel
Mouse Of The House
 
Posts: 12143
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:07 pm
Location: White Lake, MI

Postby papalazeru on Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:13 pm

Fievel wrote:Symphonic music is alive and well, at least here in the United States. And if it's still being successfully produced here, it's being produced elsewhere as well. As far as full-fledged Symphonies, sure they're still being produced. Check any major music university. They're premiering new works all the time. The University Of North Texas is infamous for this. One of their faculty, Cindy McTee has written some pretty crazy shit herself.

Most modern composers are focusing on "concert band" pieces - things that they can sell to University/High School bands. There is some truly amazing work in this field, though it's not symphonic (no strings). Samuel Hazo is a phenomenal modern composer.


Yeah yeah yeah...so is Phillip Glass *blurgh*

The last good composer I heard was Dudley Moore who thought long and hard about this music.

TBH, I haven't heard Samuel Hazo and it's probably worth a listen so I'll reserve judgement until then but as a sweeping statement....It's still pretty bad.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
User avatar
papalazeru
Not very classy! Not very classy at all!!
 
Posts: 11475
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:26 am

Postby Seppuku on Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:21 pm

Wasn't that Verve song enough for you? Pfft, some people are never satisfied!
Dale Tremont Presents...

Image
User avatar
Seppuku
SWINGING PLASTIC LION
 
Posts: 7872
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:52 am
Location: Limeyland

Postby Worst Part's Almost Over on Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:26 pm

seppukudkurosawa wrote:Wasn't that Verve song enough for you? Pfft, some people are never satisfied!


Beat me to it :wink:

Personally I think modern composers of soundtracks are giving us symphonies because a lot of it is stuff you don't need to hear just in the film, but can be listened to seperately. I point you to:

Howard Shore
John Williams
Murray Gold

My top 3 for now :)
Image
User avatar
Worst Part's Almost Over
AIRWOLF
 
Posts: 1585
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:35 am

Postby Fievel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:31 pm

Glass' take on Bowie's "Heroes" is probably the best thing I've heard from him.

Someone mentioned Elfman earlier.
His first actual symphony came out last year - Serenada Schizophrenia
User avatar
Fievel
Mouse Of The House
 
Posts: 12143
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:07 pm
Location: White Lake, MI

Postby burlivesleftnut on Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:45 pm

Wow, you guys know so little about classical music.
Image
User avatar
burlivesleftnut
I <3 PACINA
 
Posts: 10626
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:28 am
Location: Port Angeles, WA

Postby Fievel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:48 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:Wow, you guys know so little about classical music.


:?:

Other than the fact that most people here are calling things symphonies that aren't symphonies, what do you mean?
User avatar
Fievel
Mouse Of The House
 
Posts: 12143
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:07 pm
Location: White Lake, MI

Postby Retardo_Montalban on Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:52 pm

I blame television and a severe lack of child abuse as the main reason there is a shortage of gifted composers in the 20th century. Back in the day, you'd have at least a dozen abusive fathers in any given town beating their 5 year old kids and refusing them dinner until they start making some coherent sounds on the piano or violin. That type of commitment is extinct in todays society. Our only hope is China.
Image
User avatar
Retardo_Montalban
doubleplusungood
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:28 am

Postby LeFlambeur on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:09 pm

Has anyone mentioned the introduction of recorded music yet? It seems to me that as the means of distribution changed symphonic music lost its cultural centrality. I think it's still being produced, but the environment for it is no longer as fertile as it was 'back in the day'. I'm not much of an expert on this subject, could anyone tell me if I'm close to the mark here?
LeFlambeur
CHEETS ON HIS WIFE
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:28 pm

Postby burlivesleftnut on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:12 pm

LeFlambeur wrote:Has anyone mentioned the introduction of recorded music yet? It seems to me that as the means of distribution changed symphonic music lost its cultural centrality. I think it's still being produced, but the environment for it is no longer as fertile as it was 'back in the day'. I'm not much of an expert on this subject, could anyone tell me if I'm close to the mark here?


DING DING DING WINNERZ!
Image
User avatar
burlivesleftnut
I <3 PACINA
 
Posts: 10626
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:28 am
Location: Port Angeles, WA

Postby LeFlambeur on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:16 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:DING DING DING WINNERZ!


YAY!
LeFlambeur
CHEETS ON HIS WIFE
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:28 pm

Postby Maui on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:16 pm

Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops, anyone?

I think what seems to be more of a trend, certainly in the last 10 years is rock bands, pop artists, etc. teaming with orchestras for soundtracks.
User avatar
Maui
WoWie
 
Posts: 7601
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 10:19 pm

Postby DennisMM on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:19 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:
LeFlambeur wrote:Has anyone mentioned the introduction of recorded music yet? It seems to me that as the means of distribution changed symphonic music lost its cultural centrality. I think it's still being produced, but the environment for it is no longer as fertile as it was 'back in the day'. I'm not much of an expert on this subject, could anyone tell me if I'm close to the mark here?


DING DING DING WINNERZ!


In addition, recording media until the mid-'50s were not friendly to the symphonic form. Before the introduction of the long-playing disc in the 1950s, it was difficult to put 10 minutes of music on one side of a vinyl disc. Even that required sacrificing quality, because the grooves had to be pressed closer together. The tightest 10" 45 RPM still couldn't fit a full movement of most symphonies. Lovers of classical music contented themselves with recordings of short-form works or excerpts. This did not help spread the appreciation of what many considered snooty, long-hair music in the first place.
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -- Noam Chomsky
DennisMM
NOT PARTICULARLY MENACING
 
Posts: 16808
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:02 pm
Location: Watchin' the reels go 'round and 'round

Re: Symphonies, where did they go?

Postby ONeillSG1 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:32 pm

king_of_nowhere wrote:Yeah, i know it's a shit name for a thread, i couldn't think of a better one though.


So over 100 years ago (not pinning it down to a particular point in time, just, a while a go, a long time ago if you want, but in this galaxy, like a point in time you'd need to reach 88mph to get to, fuck it, bear with me here, i do have a point) there were a lot of classical composers, names that we remember, Beethoven. Mozart etc.

The musical direction in the second half of the 20th century seemed to put an end to that, we had songs, less complex, less length, less musicians, the conductor was no longer an integral part.

I'm trying to think of any artists that made it big making symphonies or movements in the last, well 60 years or so.

Would people like Mike Oldfield & Jean Michelle Jarre count?
They've made albums on a theme, kinda explored musically (except for that drunken sailor bit at the end of Tubular Bells).
Maybe even Kraftwerk with their albums that blend seamlessly from one track to the next.

Would all concept albums like The Rise & Fall Of Ziggy Stardust & The Spiders From Mars & The Wall fit the category?

Maybe the idea lives on through film scores?
Would Howard Shore's LOTR score count & if it did, would Vangelis's Blade Runner score also count?

Do you think we'll see the day when orchestras, be it electrical (no light, violins & perms do not a symphony make) or classical conducting live performances of these pieces of music?


Blame Apple and iTunes. Everyone else does.
User avatar
ONeillSG1
ADAMA
 
Posts: 4738
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:23 am
Location: 221C Baker Street, front row seat for some action . . .

Postby Seppuku on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:33 pm

If classical music hadn't existed a couple hundred years ago and it emerged today, it'd be classified as totally avant garde and only adopted by crazy fringe types.
Dale Tremont Presents...

Image
User avatar
Seppuku
SWINGING PLASTIC LION
 
Posts: 7872
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:52 am
Location: Limeyland

Postby Fievel on Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:50 am

burlivesleftnut wrote:
LeFlambeur wrote:Has anyone mentioned the introduction of recorded music yet? It seems to me that as the means of distribution changed symphonic music lost its cultural centrality. I think it's still being produced, but the environment for it is no longer as fertile as it was 'back in the day'. I'm not much of an expert on this subject, could anyone tell me if I'm close to the mark here?


DING DING DING WINNERZ!


Shostakovitch?
Bernstein?
Stravinsky?
Hindemith?
Barber?
Arnold?
Piazzola?
Walton?

These guys and their peers rocked the 20th Century which was full of records, reel to reel tapes, 8-tracks, cassettes, and some of them even worked in to the compact disc era. And their music (in my opinion) blows most music out of the water that came before it.

I'd blame the radical change in new musical genres throughout the entire 20th century more than simply blaming recorded music in general. The musical revolution has moved just as quickly as the technological revolution has.

Symphonic music will always be around. It's just not going to be the most popular style music.
User avatar
Fievel
Mouse Of The House
 
Posts: 12143
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:07 pm
Location: White Lake, MI

Postby LeFlambeur on Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:51 am

Fievel wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:
LeFlambeur wrote:Has anyone mentioned the introduction of recorded music yet? It seems to me that as the means of distribution changed symphonic music lost its cultural centrality. I think it's still being produced, but the environment for it is no longer as fertile as it was 'back in the day'. I'm not much of an expert on this subject, could anyone tell me if I'm close to the mark here?


DING DING DING WINNERZ!


Shostakovitch?
Bernstein?
Stravinsky?
Hindemith?
Barber?
Arnold?
Piazzola?
Walton?

These guys and their peers rocked the 20th Century which was full of records, reel to reel tapes, 8-tracks, cassettes, and some of them even worked in to the compact disc era. And their music (in my opinion) blows most music out of the water that came before it.

I'd blame the radical change in new musical genres throughout the entire 20th century more than simply blaming recorded music in general. The musical revolution has moved just as quickly as the technological revolution has.

Symphonic music will always be around. It's just not going to be the most popular style music.


For the record, I never said that symphonic music has dissappeared, I said that it has lost its cultural centrality. There's a difference. And as for the prolilferation of genre, that too seems a byproduct of the introduction of recorded music to me.
LeFlambeur
CHEETS ON HIS WIFE
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:28 pm

Postby Fievel on Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:01 pm

Hmmm... what I wrote didn't even make sense.
What I meant to say was:

Fievel after he woke up wrote:I'd blame the radical change in new musical genres throughout the entire 20th century more on the advancements of technology than simply recorded music in general.


Surely technology and recording are related, but technology itself has allowed for the expansion of instrumentation, which has allowed for the expansion of genres as well.


...and my listing of composers was more of a nod to the original post asking who has written symphonies in the past 60 years.
User avatar
Fievel
Mouse Of The House
 
Posts: 12143
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:07 pm
Location: White Lake, MI

Postby Seppuku on Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:14 pm

Fievel wrote:Hmmm... what I wrote didn't even make sense.
What I meant to say was:

Fievel after he woke up wrote:I'd blame the radical change in new musical genres throughout the entire 20th century more on the advancements of technology than simply recorded music in general.


Surely technology and recording are related, but technology itself has allowed for the expansion of instrumentation, which has allowed for the expansion of genres as well.


If anything, the music itself has pared down immeasurably since the classical era (and even earlier). It took until the mid-'70s for the kind of polyrhythmic style that had been prevalent in music for hundreds of years to get widely incorporated into rock music. Even when a rock band says, "What the fuck, guys, let's bring in a string section!" the result is like classical-lite.
Dale Tremont Presents...

Image
User avatar
Seppuku
SWINGING PLASTIC LION
 
Posts: 7872
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:52 am
Location: Limeyland

Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:21 pm

papalazeru wrote:And, oh yes....papa knows a little about music.

Yup...papa's got a brand new bag.


A the Jimmy, he's a pretty sweet onna you, eh? A the Jimmy, he's a been a watching you. A the Jimmy, he would a like a to get a to know you, eh?

A the Jimmy, he jumps.

:roll:
User avatar
DinoDeLaurentiis
SHE'S A THE SARAH SILVERMAN
 
Posts: 11284
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:15 pm
Location: Private Villa inna Santorini

Postby Fievel on Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:26 pm

Jimmy's dowwwn!!!!!
Achievement Unlocked: TOTAL DOMINATION (Win a Werewolf Game without losing a single player on your team)
User avatar
Fievel
Mouse Of The House
 
Posts: 12143
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:07 pm
Location: White Lake, MI

Postby minstrel on Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:09 pm

The advent of recording is only part of the answer. The other two parts are, first, the invention of the electronic amplifier, which made it possible for individual musicians and small groups to be heard in large concert halls. Part of the reason for symphony orchestras was simply that you needed to get forty or so musicians on stage to get the music heard.

And then, there was the invention of radio. Symphonies don't work well on radio - hard to work the commercials in between movements. Radio is made for short songs.
"Everybody is equally shitty and wrong." - Ribbons
User avatar
minstrel
Leader of the Insquirrelgency
 
Posts: 12634
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:03 pm
Location: Area 52

Postby papalazeru on Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:25 pm

minstrel wrote:The advent of recording is only part of the answer. The other two parts are, first, the invention of the electronic amplifier, which made it possible for individual musicians and small groups to be heard in large concert halls. Part of the reason for symphony orchestras was simply that you needed to get forty or so musicians on stage to get the music heard.

And then, there was the invention of radio. Symphonies don't work well on radio - hard to work the commercials in between movements. Radio is made for short songs.


Sorry Minstrel, that is simply not true.

The expansion of the Orchestra in the 1800's gave rise to a greater dynamic range to be heard in colour, sound and harmonies. The Symphony was born out of this. Concerts were given in large halls with less instruments and without electronic assistence, there is no basis to say that it was just to get better amplification.

As for Symphonies not working well on radio, for many years the radio served to deliver Concerts to the masses and still does today without the need for commercial breaks.

Also, try listening to Berio's Symfonia. He manages to blend Symphony structure with use of Swingle Singers on mics because in a real orchestral situation they wouldn't be heard. He blends this with masterful paraphrasing of Mahlers Ressurection Symphony and Debussey's 'La mer' to create something complex and beautiful.

I don't mean to sound harsh Minstrel but it's just not true that the amp caused the death of the Symphony.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
User avatar
papalazeru
Not very classy! Not very classy at all!!
 
Posts: 11475
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:26 am

Postby minstrel on Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:43 pm

Points taken, Papa. But I didn't mean that the amp caused the "death" of the symphony. I meant that the amp made it cheap and easy for anyone to make a big sound, and that led to an explosion of folk, blues, rock, jazz and other small-group types of music. The symphony didn't go away; it's just that with so much new stuff coming out, it was surpassed in cultural importance.

Just a thought. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just wanted to put that out there.
"Everybody is equally shitty and wrong." - Ribbons
User avatar
minstrel
Leader of the Insquirrelgency
 
Posts: 12634
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:03 pm
Location: Area 52

Postby papalazeru on Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:51 pm

minstrel wrote:Points taken, Papa. But I didn't mean that the amp caused the "death" of the symphony. I meant that the amp made it cheap and easy for anyone to make a big sound, and that led to an explosion of folk, blues, rock, jazz and other small-group types of music. The symphony didn't go away; it's just that with so much new stuff coming out, it was surpassed in cultural importance.

Just a thought. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just wanted to put that out there.


I'd agree more with that. The range of music that became available was diverse and led to splits in audience (same with digital TV) but I think it then found commercial success in films which mostly now either have a great soundtrack or has a composer score a Symphony for it.

The problem I have is that it still got dumbed down to simple memorable phrases, something that Williams and Elfman are good at. They are both great at what they do but I would like to see more of a resurgence of people like Bernard Hermann (Psycho theme tune) who managed somehow, and it's well beyond me, to blend serialism into a hummable tune - that was talent.

It's not a symphony and it's not Rick Astley but This was the last song I learned to play about 7 years ago. You can hear the difference and if you look at the score, there's alot more going on. It's got colour and style with that Spanish flavour. Nothing quite like a good tinkle on the ivories.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
User avatar
papalazeru
Not very classy! Not very classy at all!!
 
Posts: 11475
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:26 am

Postby Vegeta on Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:55 pm

Isn't this thread pretty close to The Official Opera Thread

Just felt like being a thread nazi :twisted:
User avatar
Vegeta
PARAGON OF VACUITY
 
Posts: 6274
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:22 am
Location: U.S.S.A.


Return to Music

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests

cron