Playstation 3 Thread

All things controller driven will be talked about here.

Playstation 3 Thread

Postby Theta on Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:33 am

I refer you to the following link:


http://news.com.com/2061-10797_3-6041208.html?part=rss&tag=6041208&subj=news


Click on the Merrill Lynch report and get a load of that. Sure, it's not an internal communique, but in light of Sony's utter silence over the PS3, this is about the worst thing that could possibly happen. Short of AACS being delayed and, oh yeah, that happened too.

Salient points of the report:

-- The PS3 costs $900 per unit to manufacture.

-- The manufacturing process is difficult, lengthy, and inefficient.

-- There is basically no way short of enslaving China Sony can get enough PS3s manufactured to meet any of their projected launch dates.

A little math: if the PS3 really costs that much, and they sell 10 million units at $500 apiece...that means Sony will have eaten a $4 BILLION loss. That's half the gross of Hollywood, lost on a game system. I know the PSP's cost was dropped in response to developer pressure, but there is no way in HELL Sony is going to swallow that much debt.

Even more damning material here:


http://games.kikizo.com/news/200602/065_p1.asp


The salient points:

-- Sony flat-out lied about native 1080p. It's not happening. Ever.

-- The system itself is at best a marginal improvement over the XBox 360, so Sony lied once again; it's not going to be a generational leapfrog. I wouldn't be surprised, frankly, to see this edge evaporate once the 360 goes HD-DVD only.

--That case we saw? Not going to be the real case. Apparently it's going to be even larger and MORE clunky, which I find nearly impossible to believe. Why not just encase the thing in beige plastic and have done with it?


While I know the PSX has a lot of fans, frankly I don't see gamers shelling out $500 at minimum for a system that's not much of an improvement over a system that's going to be $200 cheaper by the time the PS3 launches. And I think the Revolution, being smaller, cheaper, and more family friendly, is going to suck up a good chunk of the market by the time the PS3 hits the shelves.

Yes, I think the Revolution is a PS3 killer, for a very simple reason: you can pick it up and play it easily. We gamers tend to forget an absolute beginner, confronted with a ten-button controller, is probably just going to not bother playing games.

I think Sony screwed up, frankly. They're relying on Blu-Ray to sell the PS3 and PS3 to sell Blu-Ray. I don't think either is going to sell either. No matter how you slice it, though, the format war just got that much uglier.
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Postby Flumm on Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:40 am

PS3 will sell millions apon milillions of units. That is foretold in history. It's even in the Bible if I remember rightly. I'm not saying I WANT it to happen, but it will, the only way that won't happen, is if there is a large ( and unprecedented) campaign of negativity about the thing right across the media, from from now untill it's release, and that the Xbox 360 gives the consumers some iconic games to marvle at sharpish.

I personally haven't played myy xbox in years, never really got round to buying a gamecube, and never wanted a ps2 but chances are I will be buying a Revoloution later this year. I think if you buy any of the next gen consoles, with the level they are attaining, the amount of resources put into them, and the fact that it's the GAMES that count, your gonna get some worth out of any of them one way or another.
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Postby magicmonkey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:45 am

Grand Theft Auto. I'll say no more.
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Postby Gheorghe Zamfir on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:20 am

The economics of multi-billion dollar industries with these billion dollar gambles usually look pretty dire, but the economics at this level of business are so much bigger and long term that its tough to ever get a true handle on the situation from just one window.

Sony will be taking on a loss on every console they sell, but so does Microsoft, and Nintendo as well. Pretty much every video game console is sold at a loss, with the hopes that video game sales will make up the difference. These guys are playing a very long term game, every system is almost a chess move to set up their position for the next generation system. In fact Microsoft's gaming unit still hasn't gotten into the black, even having sold 20 million X-Box units and however many games they've yet to turn a profit, and they didn't expect to either, it was all about just getting enough market share to be able to take a decent swing at it with the next system.

Now Sony's economics aren't quite the same cause they're more established in the gaming market then Microsoft was when the XBox first came out. But the point is it may look dire, but these companies are playing on a much bigger field, they do infact make their investments planning on taking billion dollar losses not just the first year, but the first few years. Though it does look like some of Sony's gambles may not be paying off, its really still too soon for anything to spell really be spelling doom for these guys.
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:25 am

magicmonkey wrote:Grand Theft Auto. I'll say no more.


No longer exclusive. Uh oh!
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Postby buster00 on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:47 am

Did you read the TalkBack in that news.com article? It's SOOOO boring....and I quote...


mister softy just as bad as sony DRM
Reader post by: xxx xxx
Posted on: February 18, 2006, 6:35 PM PST
Story: PlayStation 3 to be delayed?
MSFT is just as bad or worse when it comes to DRM. MSFT(MICROSOFT) wants to control all entertainment devices. Got LINUX??? Live free or die! Mepis LINUX rocks no need for a game console.






Where the fuck is ChickenGeorge when you need him, huh?

OUR TalkBack softball team is totally gonna NUKE those weenies this summer.
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The PS3 is officially doomed

Postby bastard_robo on Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:38 am

I dont see it being doomed..

Fuck.. A lot of gamers shit themselves on XBOX 360 over the some what better graphic look...

I do agree that Revolution will be the underdog champ in all of this...

As Nintendo seems to have learned that you cant just have all kiddy games..

Shit... Gamecube had the cleanest graphics out there... but people would rather aimlessly kill cops and random black guys and a really shittly looking game for hours insted (Come on ROCKSTAR..)

So in the end, it is Games over design...Hell, why do you think people still play SNES and NES still, casue the games were fun! You didnt have to sit and figure out overly extenisve puzzles for hours or worry about load time or saving... Just jump on and start...

(not to mention Revolution is giving the option to download ports of old nintendo games from NES all the way to 64)
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Re: The PS3 is officially doomed

Postby Bob Samonkey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:50 pm

Theta wrote:-- The system itself is at best a marginal improvement over the XBox 360, so Sony lied once again; it's not going to be a generational leapfrog. I wouldn't be surprised, frankly, to see this edge evaporate once the 360 goes HD-DVD only.


MS said it is not going to go to HD-DVD anytime in the foreseeable future
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:09 pm

Oh please.

For good or ill, SONY pretty much pwns the industry. On the flipside, nobody gives a shit about XBOX, whose only popular title appears to be the outrageously overrated HALO; which is why they had to release their next gen console so early. The PS2 killed the XBOX. They're dead in the water; they've been dead in the water for years. In addition, sales for the 360 have been abyssmal at best. In short, the XBOX is pretty much over (although it may continue to exist for hardcore Bill Gates loyalists.)

SONY, on the other hand, can take their sweet time with the PS3 cause they know that everyone and their mother is already waiting in line to buy one.

Sending out press releases about how powerful and complicated it is is a marketing tactic not unlike the last time when SONY said that the PS2 could be used as a WMD it was so powerful. Corny, maybe, but, who pwns the industry? SONY, by a landslide.

Seriously, your reaching.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:23 pm

Speaking of Tomb Raider...

Here is the new real lifeLara Croft


Edit: ok so it is a little of topic, but um....she started on a playstation so uh... thats why I did it.

Honestly I just did not want to start a new thread :oops:
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:30 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:Speaking of Tomb Raider...

Here is the new real lifeLara Croft


Edit: ok so it is a little of topic, but um....she started on a playstation so uh... thats why I did it.

Honestly I just did not want to start a new thread :oops:


DAAAAMN! She fine!

I'd sure like to take her out for a nice dinner and a movie... maybe buy her some flowers.
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Postby Al Shut on Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:31 pm

Shame on you!

I was rereading the whole thread twice because I thought I missed somebody mentioning Tomb Raider earlier.

Feel free to be offtopic but don't use the phrase "Speaking of ...". Have mercy with the dumb, we're easy to confuse
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:30 pm

Al_Shut wrote:Shame on you!

I was rereading the whole thread twice because I thought I missed somebody mentioning Tomb Raider earlier.

Feel free to be offtopic but don't use the phrase "Speaking of ...". Have mercy with the dumb, we're easy to confuse



Sorry. I am shamed. :oops:
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Postby Theta on Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:33 pm

Gheorghe Zamfir wrote:
Sony will be taking on a loss on every console they sell, but so does Microsoft, and Nintendo as well.


Microsoft yes. Nintendo no. Anything Nintendo sells they make a profit on, or at least break even; they would not be happy with third if the GameCube were a loss leader.

Also, there's the question of cost. Microsoft eats, maybe, MAYBE $200 on the Xbox 360, most of which is made up for in game sales and Xbox Live fees. Sony we don't know how much the games are going to cost, or what the online fee structure will be, or whether they're hoping everybody will buy new bright and shiny Blu-Ray movies.

The PS3 will NOT be $900 retail. But I don't see Sony eating a debt that could easily vaporize any profit they made off the system. I don't question the system will sell millions...I'm just saying that a lack of being able to meet hype combined with a high price will put Playstation at second or third, which Sony just can't afford.
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Postby Theta on Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:54 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Oh please.

For good or ill, SONY pretty much pwns the industry. On the flipside, nobody gives a shit about XBOX, whose only popular title appears to be the outrageously overrated HALO; which is why they had to release their next gen console so early. The PS2 killed the XBOX. They're dead in the water; they've been dead in the water for years. In addition, sales for the 360 have been abyssmal at best. In short, the XBOX is pretty much over (although it may continue to exist for hardcore Bill Gates loyalists.)

SONY, on the other hand, can take their sweet time with the PS3 cause they know that everyone and their mother is already waiting in line to buy one.

Sending out press releases about how powerful and complicated it is is a marketing tactic not unlike the last time when SONY said that the PS2 could be used as a WMD it was so powerful. Corny, maybe, but, who pwns the industry? SONY, by a landslide.

Seriously, your reaching.


No, I'm not. A few points:

--Xbox 360 sales have not been up to the hype, true. But they haven't been abysmal, either. Also, you and I might think Halo is overhyped, but it sells systems. There are enough dedicated Xbox fans to keep the system alive, even through all its manufacturing troubles.


-- This report is not from Sony and is not Sony hype. In fact, the utter silence from Sony over the PS3 has been deafening. They might not even have anything for E3 in May. It's from Merrill Lynch's analysts, who are basically recommended that investors procede with caution in terms of acquiring Sony stock.


-- Much of what you say about Microsoft you can also apply to Sony. The PS2 has quite a few good games...but few of them are exclusives and none of them were designed in-house.


--Yes, the PSX zombies will buy one. Yes, the system will sell a few million units. You know what? That's not the issue. The issue is whether other people will, and frankly, I think suburban parents, confronted with a $600, a $300 and a $200 system, are going to go for the $200 and $300 system, especially since the $600 system offers a negligible improvement.


I personally think the PS3 is going to face the same problem as the PSP. Let's not forget Sony is currently watching in shock as Nintendo kicks their ass from one end of the portable gaming market to the other. What's been selling PSPs is Internet connectivity and UMD. And now UMD sales are slowing down and Nintendo has cut a deal with Opera to release a browser cartridge for the DS. Sony just doesn't have the games for the PSP, they didn't develop them and they certainly haven't been able to find them (I can name precisely one PSP game.) So they're far from infallible and frankly, far from smart. I mean, who DIDN'T know "Nintendogs" was going to push millions of DS units out the door?


My final point is this: The Playstation has lived on hype. It has always been an inferior system. And you can quote me system specs out the wazoo, but the proof is in the playing and frankly, the PSX has always been the system to deliver the least on its promises. I personally think they might hit the breaking point with this. Certainly I don't think they're going to be able to hold onto the top spot; they're giving Microsoft too much time to get their bearings and Nintendo too much time to suck up the families, casual gamers, and cost-conscious gamers.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:55 pm

Aparrently Merrill Lynch can not add. which really makes anything they say suspect. As near as I can tell all those numbers add up to $800 not $900

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Postby Peven on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:21 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Oh please.

For good or ill, SONY pretty much pwns the industry. On the flipside, nobody gives a shit about XBOX, whose only popular title appears to be the outrageously overrated HALO; which is why they had to release their next gen console so early. The PS2 killed the XBOX. They're dead in the water; they've been dead in the water for years. In addition, sales for the 360 have been abyssmal at best. In short, the XBOX is pretty much over (although it may continue to exist for hardcore Bill Gates loyalists.)

SONY, on the other hand, can take their sweet time with the PS3 cause they know that everyone and their mother is already waiting in line to buy one.

Sending out press releases about how powerful and complicated it is is a marketing tactic not unlike the last time when SONY said that the PS2 could be used as a WMD it was so powerful. Corny, maybe, but, who pwns the industry? SONY, by a landslide.

Seriously, your reaching.


Zombie, where have you been? "no one cares about X-box"? i can tell you don't do Christmas shopping for kids, or spend much time in GameStop or EB Games stores. the Christmas of '04 the X-box was THE most asked for item at toy/game stores, and i heard clerks telling people how they were sold out, and taking names for waiting lists at a variety of places i where i was buying gifts. i wasn't hearing or seeing anything close to that sort of desire for the PS2. then, this last Christmas it was the X-Box 360 that was sold out before ever having the chance to hit the shelves. are you sure you aren't letting an anti-MS/Gates prejudice cloud your judgement? :wink:

on top of that, the games, even ones that are released for PS2 before X-Box, are consistently rated higher in their X-Box versions, with the GTA's being at the top of that list.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:32 pm

Theta wrote:--Xbox 360 sales have not been up to the hype, true.


More disasterous than that, man. We're talking resounding failure.
The units just didn't sell. PSPs were flying off the shelves, however.

Theta wrote:Also, you and I might think Halo is overhyped, but it sells systems. There are enough dedicated Xbox fans to keep the system alive, even through all its manufacturing troubles.


Perhaps, but nowhere near the numbers of PS2. Which pwns the
industry. I'm sorry, but its true.


Theta wrote:-- This report is not from Sony and is not Sony hype. In fact, the utter silence from Sony over the PS3 has been deafening. They might not even have anything for E3 in May. It's from Merrill Lynch's analysts, who are basically recommended that investors procede with caution in terms of acquiring Sony stock.


Ever heard of PR seeding news? How do you think Meriil Lynch got the
info? From Bothan spies? Remember when the news 'leaked' about
the PS2 being "too powerful" to the point of being dangerous?

Oh, and I just saw a short bit on CBS evening news about the powerful
new chips the PS3 is using, and how they are also used in satellite
guiding systems. Silence? Nah. Pre-market seeding? Yep!

Theta wrote:-- Much of what you say about Microsoft you can also apply to Sony. The PS2 has quite a few good games...but few of them are exclusives and none of them were designed in-house.


Regardless, most people own the PS2. GRAND THEFT AUTO came
out first on the PS2, and was released on the XBox about a year later.

Everyone I know, including most of my students have a PS2.
The ones who don't have a GameCube. None of them, however, own
an XBox. I honestly have never met an XBOX owner. Ever. I know
they exist, but i've never met one.

Theta wrote:--Yes, the PSX zombies will buy one. Yes, the system will sell a few million units. You know what? That's not the issue. The issue is whether other people will, and frankly, I think suburban parents, confronted with a $600, a $300 and a $200 system, are going to go for the $200 and $300 system, especially since the $600 system offers a negligible improvement.


Well, they shelled out $500 bucks last time, $100 more for vastly
improved graphics, BluRay and full backwards compatibility?
Um, XBox huh? The game is already over. Nintendo doesn't even
rate, its the childrens gaming system (very cool, sure, but its not
very popular.)

Theta wrote:I personally think the PS3 is going to face the same problem as the PSP.


Thats funny, because I've seen tons of them on the street, my students
have them, and the ones who don't have one want one. So... if the
problem Sony is having is making huge fistfulls of cash and pwning the
industry, well, geez. What can I say?


Theta wrote:My final point is this: The Playstation has lived on hype.


No, no. Playstation has lived on blockbuster sales reinforced by over
the top hype. I agree that their hype is hilariously over the top
sometimes, but, they own the industry, so they must be doing the right
thing. I know I'm buying one. Everyone else I know is too. Including
my students so...

HERE COME THE PLAYSTATION ZOMBIES! WHOOO!
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Postby bluebottle on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:32 pm

theta, no offence, but i resent the fact that you started this thread as a crossposted rant from your blog.

most of the responses in this thread read like comments in a blog.

Did you even read the second article? It's not nearly as negative as you make it out to seem.

The title of the thread itself is biased.

what do you have against Sony? Did they reject you in high school?
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:35 pm

Peven wrote:Zombie, where have you been? "no one cares about X-box"? i can tell you don't do Christmas shopping for kids, or spend much time in GameStop or EB Games stores. the Christmas of '04 the X-box was THE most asked for item at toy/game stores, and i heard clerks telling people how they were sold out, and taking names for waiting lists at a variety of places i where i was buying gifts. i wasn't hearing or seeing anything close to that sort of desire for the PS2. then, this last Christmas it was the X-Box 360 that was sold out before ever having the chance to hit the shelves. are you sure you aren't letting an anti-MS/Gates prejudice cloud your judgement? :wink:

on top of that, the games, even ones that are released for PS2 before X-Box, are consistently rated higher in their X-Box versions, with the GTA's being at the top of that list.


You must live in an alternate universe, cause I saw lots of people
checking out Kong and saying "I can't wait for the PS3" while buying
PSPs for their kids...

The game reviewers may rate XBox games higher, but that doesn't
seem to matter to the game buying public.
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Postby Peven on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:46 pm

now, the PSP is a definate hot item among kids, no doubt about that(though no way am i shelling out that kind of $ for a little portable system, no matter how much my 14 yr old begs for one). but in the console battle i think the X-Box has done a pretty solid job of holding its own against the PS2. a couple yrs ago we bought both systems, and last yr ended up trading in the PS2 because the kids just weren't using it, they liked the controllers and graphics for the X-Box better, and i have to say that despite my own prejudice against MS/Gates that i prefer the X-Box over the PS2 too.
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Postby Seppuku on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:51 pm

Because each of the Mods have told me to scale-down my posting to one a day or they'll castrate me publicly (why me Mods? The Doc posts more than I do, and so does Havoc and your very own John Locke. What have I done to deserve being singled-out like this!?), I'll limit my one post to this thread: Sony Raped My Childhood.


I think it was worth it. Now to smoke a Smokey Thingie, and wallow in the post-coital glaze of satisfaction.

Also this whole thread is a travesty, although I don't quite agree with Zombie that the Xbox is a sinking ship, that doesn't automatically mean I think Sony is going downhill. Despite those [dubious] figures Theta posted, there's no doubt that Sony will clear-up. First they've got all the games developers indebted to them, even with Rockstar making GTA multi-format, they'll still turn to Sony first. And the name Playstation and Sony means more than Nintendo ever did... The only way PS3 won't sell is if there's a games recession, in which case EVERYTHING's going downhill. Apart from that unlikely scenario, PS3s will be ate up by average Joe gamer.


And this time, instead of being charged twice the price for a console, I'll order a secondhand one from the U.S. (secondhand goods don't have to be charged taxes when they enter the UK) and for once I won't be ripped-off. Do you guys realise how expensive EVERYTHING (second capital everything in four sentences), is in Britain? John Kerry would go bankrupt here in a week...partly because our brothels are so extortionate- don't think I'm not aware of you Americans' taste for Limey Lovelies- but so are food, houses and games consoles. We're getting almost as cheap as you in DVDs and CDs though, it has to be said.

Anyway end of rant. (Mods, although you've forbidden me from posting more than once a day, you didn't say I couldn't make that post a long one.)
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Postby bluebottle on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:56 pm

there's no doubt that the x-box is a superior system when compared to the playstation. the graphics are sharper, the loadtimes are faster and the game play is slightly better.

i don't think anyone is arguing that.

it's what the public will buy... that's the argument.

yeah, the 360 was sold out during christmas, and a lot of people wanted them, but that's because they were SOLD OUT, which increases awareness and creates the belief that it's a hot ticket item.

if a theatre seats 1000 people and is always sold out, is it more successful to the public than a play that seats 1400 but only sells 1200 seats?

the bottom line will be the games, it's always been about the games.

more people own playstations so more companies develop for playstation. it's as simple as that. people will buy the system that looks like it will have the greatest variety of games.

sure x-box is a better machine than the ps2, but i can't get all the games i'd want to play for x-box.

and i like the dual-shock controllers... they're way more comfortable than the x-box controllers. it's stupid but stuff like that is more important to me than how detailed a characters hair looks.
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Postby Seppuku on Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:38 pm

Just so I don't slander the name of our good Mods, they haven't really censored me in any way. Except they told me not to post any naked pictures of Natalie Portman (PM me for the only true, non-photoshopped pictures you'll ever see! //She'd fell asleep with a book over her face while sunbathing so that's why she's a different tan from her neck downwards.// And I'll send them to you for only fifty American dollars. Hurry up, they'll be deleted for no particular reason soon so you don't have long to join your fellow man in this unique experience...Do I sound like Herc much?). Oh yeah and they also said I can only reference Kurosawa on Wednesdays. And I can only use the word "and" a maximum of twice in a sentence to limit Kerouacian bouts of free association nonsense.

So basically, the Mods are the good guys and I was joking...

Next time I engage in one of these joke things it'll be prefixed with this image:

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Postby Theta on Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:31 pm

Note to Zombie: I'm glad you enjoy your system. It seems to have clouded your judgement, though. Basically, we're going to see, one way or the other, in about ten months.

Just to address the PSP:

The PSP sold well initially...but it's been outsold by the DS (15 million units versus 10 million, and where Sony takes a loss for each one sold, Nintendo makes a profit) and while DS sales have gone up and seem to only be getting higher, the PSP has plateaued. The UMD slowdown isn't a good sign either, and once the Opera cartridge comes out, pretty much any advantage the PSP will have in the market will be negated. People will see the smaller (Nintendo being Nintendo, a slimmer DS is on the way) and cheaper system with the better games versus the clunkier, more expensive system with no games, and history has proven (Game Boy versus...well, pretty much any other handheld) that the smaller, cheaper one will always win.

As for Sony's future dominance...well...in the history of the video game industry, there's really only been one company that's consistently done well. That's Nintendo. Everybody from major computer manufacturers to cell-phone companies have tried to break in, and you know what? They've all failed. Sony has had some good success, but only a fool thinks he's going to be number one forever.
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Postby Theta on Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:45 pm

seppukudkurosawa wrote: And the name Playstation and Sony means more than Nintendo ever did...


True, Nintendo was always a cult system. They really had to struggle for market share against Sega, NEC and Phillips during the '80s and '90s. Especially in the '80s with the NES and SNES. It's too bad you can't get t-shirts with the Nintendo controller on them, or any with the classic pixelated characters, and that nobody knows the Nintendo game franchises at all.

Enough with the sarcasm. Seriously, Sony might currently be number one but quite frankly, what's going to kill them is their seeming utter lack of ability to have in-house franchises. All of the popular games for their system are owned by somebody else, and it will be very easy for, say, Konami to walk away if suddenly Sony slips, even only to second.

Also, as I noted elsewhere, history is against Sony; many have tried to get into the video game market, and all have ultimately failed, except Nintendo.
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Postby Peven on Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:47 pm

Bluebottle wrote:there's no doubt that the x-box is a superior system when compared to the playstation. the graphics are sharper, the loadtimes are faster and the game play is slightly better.

i don't think anyone is arguing that.

it's what the public will buy... that's the argument.

yeah, the 360 was sold out during christmas, and a lot of people wanted them, but that's because they were SOLD OUT, which increases awareness and creates the belief that it's a hot ticket item.

if a theatre seats 1000 people and is always sold out, is it more successful to the public than a play that seats 1400 but only sells 1200 seats?

the bottom line will be the games, it's always been about the games.

more people own playstations so more companies develop for playstation. it's as simple as that. people will buy the system that looks like it will have the greatest variety of games.

sure x-box is a better machine than the ps2, but i can't get all the games i'd want to play for x-box.

and i like the dual-shock controllers... they're way more comfortable than the x-box controllers. it's stupid but stuff like that is more important to me than how detailed a characters hair looks.


the software is what drives the hardware, imo. beta was clearly better than vhs, for instance, but there were far more titles available for vhs, and that is ultimately what won the format battle for vhs. Sony learned their lesson, so when they entered the game console arena they made sure they would have the software to drive their hardware. they had bought Columbia Pictures, for instance, which gave them the license to a quantity of material to draw from in regards to licensed material that could be translated into games. they kicked the crap out of a superior Sega system because their title library was much bigger than Sega's.

BUT, their dominance in the title availability battle has been dwindling steadily in the last few yrs, with X-Box's library steadily growing, along with titles like the GTA series coming over to X-Box from Sony-only and being better games after the translation from the original PS2 incarnations.

and one of the reasons i like the X-Box better is the controllers are more comfortable and ergonomic, imo, not just better graphics and overall gameplay. still, i don't think Sony is in any danger of being pushed out of the market either, for the reasons Blue points out, but i don't see them regaining the dominance they had just a few yrs ago either due to the strong competition from the X-Box/X-Box 360.
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Postby bluebottle on Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:52 pm

theta, from a financial point of view you're right, it's bad for sony to take a loss on the hardware while all the money is being made by other companies who are making the games.

but like Zamfir said earlier in the thread, it's a long term thing. Sony would rather lose money and have a PS3 in every home than make money and only have it in a few.

Sony focuses on the hardware, they let other companies develop the games. That's a very smart way to do it, imo.

Look at television, the best shows are rarely in-house productions. A show made for FOX is not necessarily made BY Fox. But if it's a hit, everyone praises FOX.
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Postby The Garbage Man on Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:55 pm

Bluebottle wrote:Look at television, the best shows are rarely in-house productions. A show made for FOX is not necessarily made BY Fox. But if it's a hit, everyone praises FOX.


And then they cancel it.

And the Circle of (Television) Life begins anew.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:59 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:Speaking of Tomb Raider...

Here is the new real lifeLara Croft


Edit: ok so it is a little of topic, but um....she started on a playstation so uh... thats why I did it.

Honestly I just did not want to start a new thread :oops:


Less Filling................Tastes Great.............Less Filling.................Tastes Great.............

All I want is some good mother f'ing games. I am going to get all of the systems anyway. Eventually. So give me good fun games. Not just things that look pretty. Good games.


Here ^^^ look at the pretty lady and everyone calm down.
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Postby bluebottle on Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:00 pm

The Garbage Man wrote:
Bluebottle wrote:Look at television, the best shows are rarely in-house productions. A show made for FOX is not necessarily made BY Fox. But if it's a hit, everyone praises FOX.


And then they cancel it.

And the Circle of (Television) Life begins anew.


ok, bad example.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:23 pm

Theta wrote:Note to Zombie: I'm glad you enjoy your system. It seems to have clouded your judgement, though. Basically, we're going to see, one way or the other, in about ten months.


Clouded my judgement? Now thats what I call irony!

I mean, you can believe anything you need to about Nintendo
or the XBox or the Colecovision, it doesn't really matter; the
numbers don't lie -- Sony is the market leader. Period. Sure
things could change, but given the whole backward comaptibility
thang, its not very likely that people are gonna jump ship from
the Playstation any time in the near future.

Be honest: What do you think your average video game
buyer is going to go for? Not the guy who owns a subscription to
IGN online, has every videogame console ever made, but the
average video game buyer? What do you really think they are
going to buy? The one that plays all the new stuff (like MGS4,
Resident Evil 5 and GTA: Whatever), has the wicked cool superDVD
player and plays all your olde games, or some new system
that has a confusing controller, doesn't have a DVD player and
doesn't play the olde games?

3 guesses and the first two don't count.

Or, in other words, a simple equation:
Playstation = VHS / DVD
Xbox = Betamax
Nintendo = Laser Disc

Again, as Bluebottle pointed out, this isn't about a preference for
a particular system, its about what the average person is going
to buy / drool over. Not what the dude who works at EB games
thinks. You now that guy who hasn't bathed in awhile? The one
all the soccer moms are afraid of / feel sorry for?
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:31 pm

Laserdisks Rock!! And supposedly the Revolution will be backward compatible to the beginning. NES SNES N64 GC. All of them. But who knows till they come out.
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Postby bluebottle on Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:42 pm

yeah, but the revolution will be backwards compatible in that you can download old nintendo games to the console and play them...

the ps3 is backwards compatible in that you can put any psx game in the player and play it.

although the revolution might seem more exciting since you're not dealing with disks (and i'm presuming you're not sitting on a bunch of old cartridges hoping they'll be usefull again) , who knows what the download fees will be, and how much hard drive space we're talking about.
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Postby Flumm on Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:45 pm

It was a while ago now, so my info my be out of date, but I heard that Nintendo were aiming to make all their previous catologue avaliable for free...
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:50 pm

Bluebottle wrote:although the revolution might seem more exciting since you're not dealing with disks (and i'm presuming you're not sitting on a bunch of old cartridges hoping they'll be usefull again) , who knows what the download fees will be, and how much hard drive space we're talking about.


I wish my couch was made out of old cartridges!! Hey man I agree with you guys about this. I have all the systems but I like me some RPGs. And the mane system those are found on are the PS. I can take FPS only so far. After a while they all start to blend together. I do think the downloadable stuff will be cool though. I really want to play Earthworm Jim again. (It was released on SNES)
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:58 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:Laserdisks Rock!! And supposedly the Revolution will be backward compatible to the beginning. NES SNES N64 GC. All of them. But who knows till they come out.


I'll buy the first videogame system that plays EVERY GAME EVER.
Like from ATARI 2600 to COMMODORE 64 and so forth and so on...

I don't care who makes it, I'm buying that... the UNIVERSAL GAMING
SYSTEM! UGS.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:14 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:Laserdisks Rock!! And supposedly the Revolution will be backward compatible to the beginning. NES SNES N64 GC. All of them. But who knows till they come out.


I'll buy the first videogame system that plays EVERY GAME EVER.
Like from ATARI 2600 to COMMODORE 64 and so forth and so on...

I don't care who makes it, I'm buying that... the UNIVERSAL GAMING
SYSTEM! UGS.


That would be very cool too. I also miss my Indiana Jones game on the 2600. My mom gave it away to a kid across the street. the whole system and all the games. :cry:
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Postby bluebottle on Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:15 pm

someone made a great argument once that a singular gaming system should be developed by microsoft, sony and nintendo, and then make the design open so that ANY company could manufacture it (like a dvd player).

Then all the focus would be on making games for the ONE system.

The argument was that if they did this, the game quality would jump light-years ahead of where it is now.

It'll never happen, but it was an interesting argument... I wish i rememberd where i read it. Was it here?!
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Postby colonel_lugz on Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:17 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:Laserdisks Rock!! And supposedly the Revolution will be backward compatible to the beginning. NES SNES N64 GC. All of them. But who knows till they come out.


I'll buy the first videogame system that plays EVERY GAME EVER.
Like from ATARI 2600 to COMMODORE 64 and so forth and so on...

I don't care who makes it, I'm buying that... the UNIVERSAL GAMING
SYSTEM! UGS.


That would be very cool too. I also miss my Indiana Jones game on the 2600. My mom gave it away to a kid across the street. the whole system and all the games. :cry:



HAHAHA I was playing that the other week, its part of the Lucasarts Classics Collection. Well worth getting hold of.

And i'm holding out for the Revolution, although this is the first time i've heard about it being backwards compatable!
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:37 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:Laserdisks Rock!! And supposedly the Revolution will be backward compatible to the beginning. NES SNES N64 GC. All of them. But who knows till they come out.


I'll buy the first videogame system that plays EVERY GAME EVER.
Like from ATARI 2600 to COMMODORE 64 and so forth and so on...

I don't care who makes it, I'm buying that... the UNIVERSAL GAMING
SYSTEM! UGS.


That would be very cool too. I also miss my Indiana Jones game on the 2600. My mom gave it away to a kid across the street. the whole system and all the games. :cry:


DEAR GOD! That's tantamount to childe abuse!
I loved my Atari 2600 with a passion...
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:40 pm

colonel_lugz wrote:
Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:That would be very cool too. I also miss my Indiana Jones game on the 2600. My mom gave it away to a kid across the street. the whole system and all the games. :cry:


HAHAHA I was playing that the other week, its part of the Lucasarts Classics Collection. Well worth getting hold of.


What system is that for? That sounds awesomeness!

That EMPIRE STRIKES BACK game -- like Defender, but
with AT ATs and Snowspeeders -- was awesome!
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Postby Peven on Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:43 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Theta wrote:Note to Zombie: I'm glad you enjoy your system. It seems to have clouded your judgement, though. Basically, we're going to see, one way or the other, in about ten months.


Clouded my judgement? Now thats what I call irony!

I mean, you can believe anything you need to about Nintendo
or the XBox or the Colecovision, it doesn't really matter; the
numbers don't lie -- Sony is the market leader. Period. Sure
things could change, but given the whole backward comaptibility
thang, its not very likely that people are gonna jump ship from
the Playstation any time in the near future.

Be honest: What do you think your average video game
buyer is going to go for? Not the guy who owns a subscription to
IGN online, has every videogame console ever made, but the
average video game buyer? What do you really think they are
going to buy? The one that plays all the new stuff (like MGS4,
Resident Evil 5 and GTA: Whatever), has the wicked cool superDVD
player and plays all your olde games, or some new system
that has a confusing controller, doesn't have a DVD player and
doesn't play the olde games?

3 guesses and the first two don't count.

Or, in other words, a simple equation:
Playstation = VHS / DVD
Xbox = Betamax
Nintendo = Laser Disc

Again, as Bluebottle pointed out, this isn't about a preference for
a particular system, its about what the average person is going
to buy / drool over. Not what the dude who works at EB games
thinks. You now that guy who hasn't bathed in awhile? The one
all the soccer moms are afraid of / feel sorry for?


the "average person" is going to look at affordability, and when the "average person" is looking at two systems side by side that are comparable in ability, only one is $200 more than the other, why would they choose to spend the extra $200, especially if they have kids to feed, cloth, pay for orthodontist, etc. plus, the people who are willing to pay $500 for a game system are EXACTLY the kind of people who will pay for an IGN subscription; the single, childless, hardcore gamer types. people like you. :wink: :D

i have got to ask, Zombie, why are you so vehemently anti-X-Box? it is pretty obvious it goes beyond just liking the PS2 more as a system. comparing the X-Box to beta, and claiming their controllers are confusing is going overboard, i mean, come on, how is the PS2 controller configuration any less confusing? they actually have more buttons than the X-Box controllers with two buttons each for both the right and left forefingers, while the X-Box has just one trigger each, just for instance. and, beta died, and X-Box isn't going anywhere, ever, so that analogy isn't even close to holding up, you know that. so fess up, you're a rabid Gates hater, aren't you? :wink:

edit: and you can't make the case about backward compatibility being a reason why people would fork over the extra $200 either, since they will just keep their PS2 to play all the games they have for it, and with the multi-ported tv's it isn't any problem to have more than one system hooked up at once.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:49 pm

Peven wrote:the "average person" is going to look at affordability, and when the "average person" is looking at two systems side by side that are comparable in ability, only one is $200 more than the other, why would they choose to spend the extra $200, especially if they have kids to feed, cloth, pay for orthodontist, etc. plus, the people who are willing to pay $500 for a game system are EXACTLY the kind of people who will pay for an IGN subscription; the single, childless, hardcore gamer types. people like you. :wink: :D

i have got to ask, Zombie, why are you so vehemently anti-X-Box? it is pretty obvious it goes beyond just liking the PS2 more as a system. comparing the X-Box to beta, and claiming their controllers are confusing is going overboard, i mean, come on, how is the PS2 controller configuration any less confusing? they actually have more buttons than the X-Box controllers with two buttons each for both the right and left forefingers, while the X-Box has just one trigger each, just for instance. and, beta died, and X-Box isn't going anywhere, ever, so that analogy isn't even close to holding up, you know that. so fess up, you're a rabid Gates hater, aren't you? :wink:


Uh, when did I say I "hated" the XBox? Indifferent would be more
accurate.

And $500 was exactly how much the PS2 cost when it came
originally came out. Then it fell to $300. I got it as a birthday
present back in 2002; about 2 years after it first came out.

So hardcore gamer? Nah. I love games, but I ain't even close
to hardcore about it.
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Postby Peven on Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:57 pm

no, you didn't actually use the word "hate" in regard to X-Box, but your utter disdain for it oozes from your posts like puss from a zombie's boil. :wink: :lol:

i think its better for all people who enjoying gaming that Sony has been given the competition it has met with X-Box, actually. competition will push all parties involved to be better, and thats good for the consumer, right? thats what the free market and capitalism is all about, right? at least, thats what my uber-conservative economics professor would say. :roll:
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Postby darylzero2006 on Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:09 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Theta wrote:--Xbox 360 sales have not been up to the hype, true.


More disasterous than that, man. We're talking resounding failure.
The units just didn't sell. PSPs were flying off the shelves, however.


What are you talking about? The Xbox 360 sold out immediately. They just didn't have enough for the demand.
In a month when manufacturing catches up to demand the thing will sell like crazy.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:31 pm

darylzero2006 wrote:What are you talking about? The Xbox 360 sold out immediately. They just didn't have enough for the demand.
In a month when manufacturing catches up to demand the thing will sell like crazy.


Yes, yes, of course. :roll:
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Postby bluebottle on Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:38 pm

darylzero2006 wrote:What are you talking about? The Xbox 360 sold out immediately. They just didn't have enough for the demand.
In a month when manufacturing catches up to demand the thing will sell like crazy.


just because they sold out of 360's does not mean it's going to sell like crazy. they sold-out so they could say, "WE JUST CAN'T KEEP 'EM ON THE SHELVES!"

it's called hype.

in a month, when there is a surplus of 360's we'll all have a better idea of how they are selling.

my guess is that they'll do quite well, and i'll bet the ps3 will do quite well, but whoever the "leader" is going to be won't really be determined until after both systems have worked out their first-batch-bugs and had a their first major price drop.
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Postby bigtroyjon on Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:58 pm

The ps2 never cost 500 dollars. On Ebay they were going for a bunch of money but the orginal price was 300. I worked a video game store when they came out.

The 360 is still selling out. Stores are getting shipments every week, and everyweek they sell out within days of getting them.

The 360 costs microsoft about 500 bucks to make right now. This is quite a bit different than 900 dollars. Also not figured into the cost of the PS3 is the games on bluray discs will cost 10-20 more than the 360 games.
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Postby Theta on Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:34 pm

Bluebottle wrote:
the ps3 is backwards compatible in that you can put any psx game in the player and play it.

although the revolution might seem more exciting since you're not dealing with disks (and i'm presuming you're not sitting on a bunch of old cartridges hoping they'll be usefull again) , who knows what the download fees will be, and how much hard drive space we're talking about.


Supposedly Nintendo is following the iTunes model. Nothing official's been declared, but unofficially it's sounding like five bucks will be the ceiling and that probably only for the most popular and more recent games; you can probably get the more obscure carts for cheaper. Considering Nintendo is putting together a cost conscious system, I believe that figure. Also, the patents for the Revolution indicate Nintendo plans on giving away older games for free if you buy a new game (i.e. you pop in the new Metroid and get, say, "Super Metroid" automatically downloaded.)

As for space, apparently the Revolution uses CF cards instead of a hard drive. I find this questionable; I'd think they'd probably prefer a proprietary format to limit piracy. Still, it wouldn't be terribly shocking if it were true.

Either way, it's a genius idea. All those games have paid for themselves already.
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