Playstation 3 Thread

All things controller driven will be talked about here.

Postby Fievel on Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:47 pm

PS3 Has Halved Production Costs

I'm curious (as is the article) to know what model they based that claim on - the 40 or 80GB? Regardless, that's good news for Sony.
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Postby King Psyz on Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:51 pm

supposedly it's across the board, if that's the case they'll float by this year and try and cover costs from the previous year and you can bet as soon as they hit the black for the system to date you'll see a huge markdown right around november.

with MGS4(which looks fucking amazing, I saw it played with a controller by several people, it's not bullshit, it's really that detailed), Resistance 2 with 60 player multiplayer online (and for free...), Soul Calibur 4 with Darth Vader, Beautiful Katamari rumored, and several other titles this could be a pretty huge year for the Playstation.

factor in that the Blu Ray format is all but winning the format war and we could see a drop in software costs soon too.
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Postby Dyno on Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:36 pm

Might Crysis be coming to the PS3?

"Even before the PC version released, rumours of a PS3 conversion of the stunning Crysis (developed by Far Cry creators Crytek) were rife, and not far off the mark if insiders at the studio are to be believed. The game looks to be a port of the PC original plus some extra modes and features, a kind of Crysis 1.5. Like the PC game you can expect a visual powerhouse; an open-world shooter that begins on a beautiful tropical island before things take a turn for the worse and aliens from a parallel world stake a claim on Earth. Only the mighty Killzone 2 could possibly hold a candle to this shooter. For technical reasons we hear an Xbox 360 version of Crysis isn’t in development. Bet you’re glad you bought a PS3 now, eh?"

Makes sense to me because right now Crytek is looking to cover their losses. They haven't made enough with PC sales for all the work they did. A decent port might pay the rent until the hardware specs become common enough for developers to start licencing the new Cry engine.

I bet the 'technical reasons' for missing the 360 is because you can't load part of a game on a 360 hard drive. I guess Crysis has too much going on to run soley off the disk.

Looks like in 2008 the PS3 is going to give the 360 a run for the shooter money. (Killzone 2, Resistance 2, This.)
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Postby godzillasushi on Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:38 pm

Dyno wrote:I bet the 'technical reasons' for missing the 360 is because you can't load part of a game on a 360 hard drive. I guess Crysis has too much going on to run soley off the disk.

Looks like in 2008 the PS3 is going to give the 360 a run for the shooter money. (Killzone 2, Resistance 2, This.)


Yea I knew seeing this that they probably couldn't use the 360 without really sacrificing it. Yay for PS3 owners though! My computer will never be able to run it.

As for giving the 360 a run for the shooter money....I don't think so.... :lol:
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Postby Fawst on Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:46 pm

If either system wants to truly become the king of shooters, they have to do one simple thing:

SUPPORT A FUCKING MOUSE AND KEYBOARD SCENARIO!!! Good fucking GOD, people, the big two want to make their bread and butter the FPS genre? MS, I'm looking at you and Halo. Sony, you have Killzone 2.

Please, ferfuxsake. Give me a fucking mouse. NINTENDO did that shit on the SNES, you mean to tell me you can't support it on the two most powerful consoles ever created?
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:47 pm

Fawst wrote:If either system wants to truly become the king of shooters, they have to do one simple thing:

SUPPORT A FUCKING MOUSE AND KEYBOARD SCENARIO!!! Good fucking GOD, people, the big two want to make their bread and butter the FPS genre? MS, I'm looking at you and Halo. Sony, you have Killzone 2.

Please, ferfuxsake. Give me a fucking mouse. NINTENDO did that shit on the SNES, you mean to tell me you can't support it on the two most powerful consoles ever created?


couldn't agree more.
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Postby Nordling on Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:50 pm

I'm probably picking one up once the tax return comes. Probably the top model, too.
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Postby godzillasushi on Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:54 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Fawst wrote:If either system wants to truly become the king of shooters, they have to do one simple thing:

SUPPORT A FUCKING MOUSE AND KEYBOARD SCENARIO!!! Good fucking GOD, people, the big two want to make their bread and butter the FPS genre? MS, I'm looking at you and Halo. Sony, you have Killzone 2.

Please, ferfuxsake. Give me a fucking mouse. NINTENDO did that shit on the SNES, you mean to tell me you can't support it on the two most powerful consoles ever created?


couldn't agree more.


Couldn't agree less lol.

I hate keyboards and mice. That's why I play a console! I don't see how it would ever give you an advantage in any shooter anyway. Auto-aim would hurt the balance between each control scheme.

COME ON GUYS! Didn't you know that!

Unless you wanted auto-aim with a mouse and keyboard.... :?
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:00 pm

Umm both work with PS3... USB ports a plenty and even some of the bluetooth keyboards and mice work with the PS3s internal bluetooth system.

In fact they added a patch to UT3 for PS3 to use a keyboard and mouse as your preferred control system.

So Sony allows for it, the software houses just need to support it...
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Postby Theta on Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:37 pm

Fawst wrote:SUPPORT A FUCKING MOUSE AND KEYBOARD SCENARIO!!! Good fucking GOD, people, the big two want to make their bread and butter the FPS genre?


First of all, Nintendo has bitchslapped them both, and they've got the best FPS controller ever, period. Intuitive, logical and easy to use, it just needs...well, it just needs an FPS better than "okay" to really take advantage of it.

Secondly, keyboard and mouse is the single shittiest game control system ever conceived that I've run into, and I've played the Virtual Boy. Any advantages it might have are eradicated by being clumsy, difficult to use, and aggravating. There's a REASON the consoles are beating the PC as a gaming platform, and that the fact that the controls don't suck.
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:05 pm

The wiimote is okay, but it can be frustratingly inaccurate.

The guncon is in the same vein but uses more refrence points, now if namco didn't suck and they could make the guncon work with any FPS on PS3 that would be some shit right there.

I do agree with you (*GASP*) about one thing, keyboard/mouse is one control sceme I will never understand. Please feel free to feel better about yourself if you prefer two imput methods based on typing and clicking versus an imput device geared specifically for gaming, myself will pass.

Personally I don't mind using the right analog stick for aiming, diffrn't strokes and all...
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Postby Dyno on Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:22 pm

So far the only console mouse+keyboard supported shooter game is Unreal Tournament 3 on the PS3.

The thing is game developers have taken player complaints to heart and nowadays FPS with controllers are miles better than they were years ago. This problem is much smaller than it use to be.

Besides, mouse and keyboard is a desktop solution and not a living room solution, which is where the vast majority of players use their console. Another control scheme is needed and the Wii is making great headway in that regard. The only problem is that the Wii can in no way power the new shooters, so we will have to wait for an upgraded Wii, or for a similar control scheme to find its way to another, more powerful console.
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Postby Fievel on Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:43 pm

Mouse & keyboard?!?!? BAHHH!!!!

Why the hell aren't these so-called-leaders in the video game industry realizing what real gamers want... a controller with one button. Period.

Sorry, that was the only sarcastic thing I could come up with.

It all comes down to preference, but I cannot stand playing FPS's with a mouse and keyboard. I just don't feel I have good control of my character when I do that - and that is the primary "benefit" listed by M&K users - total control. I'd much rather have a controller. I think adding M&K is a step backwards in many ways, although I understand that if they can do it, they'll add some more gamers who might not have played with a controller.
I think the Wii-style controller is the tip of the next-gen controller iceberg. I'm more than willing to bet that the next-gen will have a ton more interactivity when playing.
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Postby Theta on Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:57 pm

King Psyz wrote:The wiimote is okay, but it can be frustratingly inaccurate.


True. I've still found it to be a better experience than keyboard/mouse, though. Having something to control the motion in my left and a "gun" in my right just works better for me.
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Postby King Psyz on Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:42 pm

Totally RE:4 Wii edition is the only time I have every really enjoyed a FPS type game even though it doesn't quite equate to a true FPS it felt like one because of the control scheme.

Maybe there is something to the whole one console argument?

Take Nintendo's innovations, MS' online offering (sans fee though), and sony's manufacturing and media capabilities and you'd have the perfect machine.
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Postby TonyWilson on Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:24 pm

I love mouse and keyboard, I'm much more accurate with a mouse than with a joypad.
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Postby Fawst on Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:35 pm

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark, and guess that everyone who said "bah" to M/K support is primarily a console gamer. Trust me when I say, you can't come close to the level of accuracy that a M/K setup offers with a controller. Ok, maybe you can come close, but you can't match it.

Basic reason? When you move your mouse, you stop moving, your view stops moving. With a controller, you tilt the stick, when you get to where you want, it has to reach "zero," meaning that you aren't "stopping on a dime." The controller will still have that small distance to travel back to the zero position. So you just can't get that accurate motion flow that a mouse gives you.

Take it from me, I've played both the PC and the 360 versions of Call of Duty 4. In terms of multiplayer, it's the greatest thing since Counter Strike. Trust me... there's no comparison. The PC version of COD4 is light years beyond the 360 version when it comes to control.

I know the 360 already can accept a usb keyboard, I just want a freakin mouse. There's no reason not to at least offer the option for those who want it. Shit, you can buy a steering wheel for driving games. Come on.
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Postby godzillasushi on Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:40 pm

Fawst wrote:I'm gonna take a stab in the dark, and guess that everyone who said "bah" to M/K support is primarily a console gamer. Trust me when I say, you can't come close to the level of accuracy that a M/K setup offers with a controller. Ok, maybe you can come close, but you can't match it.

Basic reason? When you move your mouse, you stop moving, your view stops moving. With a controller, you tilt the stick, when you get to where you want, it has to reach "zero," meaning that you aren't "stopping on a dime." The controller will still have that small distance to travel back to the zero position. So you just can't get that accurate motion flow that a mouse gives you.

Take it from me, I've played both the PC and the 360 versions of Call of Duty 4. In terms of multiplayer, it's the greatest thing since Counter Strike. Trust me... there's no comparison. The PC version of COD4 is light years beyond the 360 version when it comes to control.

I know the 360 already can accept a usb keyboard, I just want a freakin mouse. There's no reason not to at least offer the option for those who want it. Shit, you can buy a steering wheel for driving games. Come on.


Is there a game we can try out so I can PWN you already and silence the argument? :wink:

I find a controller more accurate. And if I could prove it I would.

I understand completely free movement with a mouse might look like it's more accurate. But I've been on these controllers my whole life and anyone who thinks I'm any less accurate is insane. And don't use the auto-aim excuse with me guys, cause I don't need it to win.
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Postby Fawst on Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:49 pm

Yah, I was tryin to figure out where you were going with the whole auto-aim thing... I always turn it off because it fucks up my aiming. Hey, to each their own, controller vs. m/k.

Since the dawn of the FPS, I have been a m/k player. I grew up on consoles (from the Atari 2600 on), migrated to PCs (right when Doom came out), then took up dual citizenship, if you will. When my PC could handle it, I always purchased an FPS for that over a console. Now that I'm stuck with only being able to get the console version of games... heh, wow do I wish I could have had m/k for BioShock. Would have been a far easier game!
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Postby godzillasushi on Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:52 pm

Fawst wrote:Yah, I was tryin to figure out where you were going with the whole auto-aim thing... I always turn it off because it fucks up my aiming. Hey, to each their own, controller vs. m/k.

Since the dawn of the FPS, I have been a m/k player. I grew up on consoles (from the Atari 2600 on), migrated to PCs (right when Doom came out), then took up dual citizenship, if you will. When my PC could handle it, I always purchased an FPS for that over a console. Now that I'm stuck with only being able to get the console version of games... heh, wow do I wish I could have had m/k for BioShock. Would have been a far easier game!


Well that makes sense then lol.

I'm not throwing away the m/k argument either. All I'm saying is that accuracy stays the same, it's the player that matters.

Plus, my PC barely runs Sim City 4 so I am sad. Low res Doom 3 was the last one I finished. Then I got it for my Xbox to enjoy it more. :lol:



....so how about that PS3 :oops:
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Postby Fawst on Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:57 pm

I played Doom 3 at 640x480, all options on low, and I beat it... chugging along at <10fps. Sad. So very, very sad.

Yah... that PS3... good stuff! :D
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Postby godzillasushi on Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:12 pm

I hated Doom 3 too. The final boss was so easy. Everything about that game was a let down for me. The enemies spawned from giant red portals, I mean COME ON!



The PS3 is certainly affordable and with it's wide selection of games there will always be something for the entire family to enjoy!

Buy it today! Now w/ 100% more Blu-Ray. Because Blue-Ray wasn't cool enough.
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Postby Fievel on Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:28 pm

godzillasushi wrote:I hated Doom 3 too. The final boss was so easy. Everything about that game was a let down for me. The enemies spawned from giant red portals, I mean COME ON!



The PS3 is certainly affordable and with it's wide selection of games there will always be something for the entire family to enjoy!

Buy it today! Now w/ 100% more Blu-Ray. Because Blue-Ray wasn't cool enough.


No... after production costs, they couldn't afford the "e" anymore.
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Postby King Psyz on Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:21 pm

oh you guys...

we already covered that they're making money on the system now.

wait til xmas time this year when they slash prices to overtake the market just like they did over the last 7 years with PS2
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Postby Fievel on Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:46 am

Believe me, KP..... I'll be getting one as soon as it goes down again. Maybe by then the new games will go down to $50.

...okay, not likely.
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Postby King Psyz on Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:05 am

actually it is, now that BD is winning the format wars BD production costs will start to drop.
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Postby Spifftacular SquirrelGirl on Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:08 am

Fievel wrote:Believe me, KP..... I'll be getting one as soon as it goes down again. Maybe by then the new games will go down to $50.

...okay, not likely.


I wish they were less than $60 but it's not like there are a lot of games out right now to pick. I did rent Ratchet and Clank and that's been pretty fun.


Just where are all the good rpg's? >.>;
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Postby Fawst on Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:22 am

FFXIII is coming :)

And FFXIII Versus. That looks... interesting.

Infinite Undiscovery looks pretty good, dunno if that's a 360 exclusive, though.
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Postby godzillasushi on Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:26 am

King Psyz wrote:oh you guys...

we already covered that they're making money on the system now.

wait til xmas time this year when they slash prices to overtake the market just like they did over the last 7 years with PS2


Want to bet?

Like....ionno....ONE MILLION DOLLARS!

Your crazy man. Theres no way they recover enough by end of this year to even match the 360 or Wii. Remember, 360's and Wii's still sell consistently. The gap narrows but it never shrinks.

Screw all this stuff, I'm gettin me a Genesis. It comes with a game and you can play mortal kombat on that. That game has blood.
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Postby King Psyz on Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:33 pm

well here's the thing, is MS making money on 360 yet?

once a machine is turning a profit they can be even more flexible with pricing because we all know they make up for losses with licensing fees to developers.

to be turning a profit on a machine less than a year and a half on the market is pretty remarkable.

at this point I see them allowing themselves to turn a profit for a bit and a possible price dip in relation to the MGS4 release then another one at the begining of the xmas shopping season.

we have a whole year to see what happens, but keep in mind 360 had it's second year software which is always better than launch software. now PS3 is into it's second year software and the improvements are pretty amazing. Little Big Planet, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Haze, possibly Crysis, ect.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:54 pm

MS hasn't made a profit off their games division yet.
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Postby Dyno on Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:20 am

Microsoft decided to turf the Original X-Box for two reasons; they had brought the production cost as low as it could go and their anti-piracy measures were completely destroyed; hackers were loading decryption keys onto the hard drive. The X-Box was the first console you could crack without a soldering iron or even a screwdriver.

At that time they made the decision to scrap it and work on a new unit they were around 4 billion in the hole (reported Sept. 2005.) Gates however said he was satisfied, that they learned a lot and would do better next time.

And for a while it looked like they did. The 360 made a lot of right moves and impressed a lot of people, bringing high end PC gaming to the consoles for the first time.

That heat problem however has really killed them this time around. It's going to be well over a billion dollars in lost profits. When you consider that the U.S. section of the video game industry exchanged around 7 1/2 billion dollars last year it becomes apparent that one company recouping its money on one console is going to take a while. Despite the 360's success it is still not making money and it won't for some time if you count expenses to be paid from both consoles.

The PS3 may not be selling enough to dominate the market as it did last gen., but it stands to be profittable much earlier on. So long as Sony is making money they are not in trouble. The 360 on the other hand is bascially at the whims of Gates. He sees the machines potential, but thus far it has been mismanaged potential that is costing them a fortune.

The Blu-Ray victory is a very big issue. It means that the 360 with its HD add-on is already on its way to becoming an antiquated machine. Microsoft has two options down the line and both are less than paletable. They have to come up with a third (Blu-Ray) console in the next few years (and start the design/production process over again) or come out with a Blu-Ray attachment. In each case they have to pay Sony a licencing fee for the techology, which means the more Microsoft machines are sold, the richer Sony gets.

That is EXACTLY what they wanted to avoid and thus why they championed the HD-DVD format.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:30 am

Dyno wrote: The X-Box was the first console you could crack without a soldering iron or even a screwdriver.



Tell that to Dreamcast owners.....
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Postby Dyno on Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:42 am

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:
Dyno wrote: The X-Box was the first console you could crack without a soldering iron or even a screwdriver.



Tell that to Dreamcast owners.....


Really? I thought homebrew dev kits for the Dreamcast (like Kallisti OS) came out after production discontinued and with Sega's approval. I didn't know there was purely soft modding going on prior to that.

If so I stand corrected.
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Postby godzillasushi on Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:14 pm

Dyno wrote:When you consider that the U.S. section of the video game industry exchanged around 7 1/2 billion dollars last year it becomes apparent that one company recouping its money on one console is going to take a while.




He sees the machines potential, but thus far it has been mismanaged potential that is costing them a fortune.





They have to come up with a third (Blu-Ray) console in the next few years (and start the design/production process over again) or come out with a Blu-Ray attachment. In each case they have to pay Sony a licencing fee for the techology, which means the more Microsoft machines are sold, the richer Sony gets.


I will respond to each part.

1. Where did you get those numbers? I'd like to read whatever you read so if you can get a link....that would be awesome.

2. Mismanaged potential how? I really don't understand what you mean. I think it has fulfilled much of it's potential already.

3. They don't have to do anything. If they eventually decide to put Blu-Ray into their console then it's because the market spoke or whatever and they think it benefits the console overall. Sony has the ability to support their own technology and if it doesn't work out then they still have the format. MS doesn't have it's own format so they made a choice. Sony isn't guaranteed a thing. But in this case you can't fault MS for any decision. Well, I can't, I'm sure you'd find a way. :wink:
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Postby King Psyz on Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:17 pm

I think he's referring to the physical design and component choices that led to the RROD debacle cutting into what could have been a lock on the next gen gaming market.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:26 pm

Dyno wrote:Really? I thought homebrew dev kits for the Dreamcast (like Kallisti OS) came out after production discontinued and with Sega's approval. I didn't know there was purely soft modding going on prior to that.

If so I stand corrected.



If I understand you correctly, there was plenty of stuff like this available for the DC....

Of course, the DC had some input from Gates, and in many ways allowed him to dip his toes in the gaming waters in advance of the X-box, so you're quite right to point out the continuation of the saga....
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Postby Dyno on Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:24 pm

godzillasushi wrote:1. Where did you get those numbers? I'd like to read whatever you read so if you can get a link....that would be awesome.


This is ESA data accurate up to 2006. On one chart they site the number being 7.4 billion for North America. Year end 2007 data is being organized as we speak.

Entertainment Software Association - go to Facts and Research

2. Mismanaged potential how? I really don't understand what you mean. I think it has fulfilled much of it's potential already.


As King Psyz mentioned (and I have previously) the 360 the RROD issue is a re-call worthy design flaw. With their original X-Box the problems lay with both the poor anti-piracy measures and the expensive (at the time) hardware choices that they weren't able to reduce cost-wise.

In terms of moving units to the customer the potential is indeed being fulfilled, but the financial windfall Microsoft is due is being eaten up by overhead costs due to a poorly designed product. It is this aspect of the product I call mismanaged. Really, they just need to learn how to build these things so they (a) don't break, and (b) aren't exploited. The 360 at least got the later right this time, too bad they couldn't get the former.

Sony isn't guaranteed a thing. But in this case you can't fault MS for any decision. Well, I can't, I'm sure you'd find a way. :wink:


Sony is guaranteed a payout anytime one of their technologies is put into a machine. They get a cut, so the more Blu-Ray X-Box products they sell, the more money they pay Sony. Said again, Microsoft are doing everything they can to avoid this, which is why they selected HD-DVD.

My opinions on the nearly-over format war are hardly unique however. Analyists and sales-trackers are saying the same thing.

Next Gen Biz Article

EDITOR'S VIEW: The PlayStation 3 Rebirth

Consumers are replacing their TV sets with high-def flat-screens. They will also replace their DVD players with Blu-ray players. They will seek the machine that is noted for its quality; the one that is future-proof; the one with the trust-worthy brand name; the one that, wow, also plays games. They will invest in PlayStation.

So is it all over for Xbox 360? No, the sales numbers are still in that platform’s favor. But sales numbers change quickly. I’m going to predict that, at some point in 2008, Xbox 360 will enjoy its last ever month outselling PlayStation 3. It will be Blu-ray, not Metal Gear Solid, that makes this happen.
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Postby godzillasushi on Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:37 pm

I meant that MS isn't forced into supporting BR. Sure, they can make those add-ons but one of the most attractive things about a 360 is that you have the option to upgrade to hi-def. For me, I like the DVD's just fine and I'm glad I didn't have to pay for a BR player.

Also, I understand what you meant by fulfilling potential now. Hardware has been a problem so...yea.

My launch day 360 still works so, they built mine right appearantly.
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Postby SilentBobX on Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:40 pm

Fawst wrote:If either system wants to truly become the king of shooters, they have to do one simple thing:

SUPPORT A FUCKING MOUSE AND KEYBOARD SCENARIO!!! Good fucking GOD, people, the big two want to make their bread and butter the FPS genre? MS, I'm looking at you and Halo. Sony, you have Killzone 2.

Please, ferfuxsake. Give me a fucking mouse. NINTENDO did that shit on the SNES, you mean to tell me you can't support it on the two most powerful consoles ever created?


If someone previously mentioned that there IS such a device, called the FRAGFX, I apologize. Here at:

http://www.splitfish.com/index.html

It says it works with ALL FPS games.

Mahalo
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Postby Fievel on Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:04 pm

SilentBobX wrote:
Fawst wrote:If either system wants to truly become the king of shooters, they have to do one simple thing:

SUPPORT A FUCKING MOUSE AND KEYBOARD SCENARIO!!! Good fucking GOD, people, the big two want to make their bread and butter the FPS genre? MS, I'm looking at you and Halo. Sony, you have Killzone 2.

Please, ferfuxsake. Give me a fucking mouse. NINTENDO did that shit on the SNES, you mean to tell me you can't support it on the two most powerful consoles ever created?


If someone previously mentioned that there IS such a device, called the FRAGFX, I apologize. Here at:

http://www.splitfish.com/index.html

It says it works with ALL FPS games.

Mahalo


WOW!!!
They have some seriously wicked looking controllers!!!!!
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Postby King Psyz on Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:10 pm

godzillasushi wrote:I meant that MS isn't forced into supporting BR. Sure, they can make those add-ons but one of the most attractive things about a 360 is that you have the option to upgrade to hi-def. For me, I like the DVD's just fine and I'm glad I didn't have to pay for a BR player.

Also, I understand what you meant by fulfilling potential now. Hardware has been a problem so...yea.

My launch day 360 still works so, they built mine right appearantly.


yeah but for $50 more you could get universal card readers, HDMI out, a 20gig HDD, free online gaming, and a BD player...

For $150 more you get a free game, backwards compatibility, and a 80gig hard drive on top of the other things.
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Postby Dyno on Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:27 pm

godzillasushi wrote:I meant that MS isn't forced into supporting BR. Sure, they can make those add-ons but one of the most attractive things about a 360 is that you have the option to upgrade to hi-def. For me, I like the DVD's just fine and I'm glad I didn't have to pay for a BR player.


Sorry, this got long...

The problems lie in keeping the 360 at technological parity with the PS3 over the next five years or so. In the past couple of years Microsoft has done a very effective marketing campaign convincing us that the 360 is just as powerful as the PS3 but for less money. They did this so that the two machines would be in direct competition for hard-core console gamer business. Hard-core gamers will spend far more buying games than any other demographic and that is how these companies intend to recover their considerable development expenses.

The 360 now has two fairly serious setbacks in this regard. One of them is indeed a lack of either built-in Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Not only does this limit the total size of what a game can be but it also adversely affects the streaming of data from the disk while in game play. A 360 game will have to be smaller in size and that data will take a longer time to process.

The second issue is the decision made by Microsoft to not allow game developers to load game data on the HDD; all the game must run directly from the disk. What this means right now is fairly long load times and minor issues with frame rates and screen tearing. Mass Effect perfectly illustrates the struggle the 360 has with ambitious, lengthy games.

These two issues are going to really make themselves increasingly apparent in the next couple years. It hasn't been a problem this past year because multiplatform developers are making games with moderate-spec PCs and the 360 in mind. Game tech advances however at an incredible rate so at the heart of the issue is whether or not the 360 is future-proofed or is it a machine with a PC-like life expectancy?

There is something to consider in the video game industry right now; just because 'next gen' hardware has been made, it doesn't mean that software developers are going to make the transition smoothly or easily. The reason why so many PC developers have gone like gangbusters on the consoles is because they were the best trained to do so by making last-gen, high-end PC games. This is especially true with regards to the 360 and its very-PC-like architecture. It gave the 360 a killer launch year.

The PS3 however is radically different and the companies that made games for the PS2 had little or no previous experience that was relevant. They have had time now however and what they are doing with the Cell processor is very encouraging. We've already seen some pull-away (Unreal Tournament 3, for example.) This year it looks like we will see even more.

The PS3 took a shit-kicking for sticking to their guns and making such a high-end device with options and capabilities no one knew what to do with. In the long run however it looks to me like they made the right choice. They took their time, they didn't succumb to short-term solutions, and now they have a machine that third party developers (like Crytek) are very interested in because they find the unit has much room for growth.

Your own personal choice for what hardware you want or don't want is all fine and good but unfortunately it has a direct and deep impact on how advanced the games themselves are going to be for that system. In order to include all your customers the lowest common denominator must apply. 360 games have to run without HDD and on standard DVD. In a few years time Microsoft may very well find it having to reverse some key decisions in order to justify hard-core gamer loyalty. They may find their product being described as a middle-tier unit; the step between the Wii and the PS3.

That might not be a bad place in the long run but their yearly financial expectations will have to be seriously lowered from that point on.

My launch day 360 still works so, they built mine right appearantly.


As they did mine it seems (touch wood.) What might be good news is the rumour of a further 360 price drop. I could justify buying a new 360 with better heat management and an HDMI port should mine poop out.

$299 Pro console for when GTAIV comes out?
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Postby King Psyz on Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:53 pm

Speaking of GTAIV they've already said they had to scale back the game to make it work on both platforms.

Developers got scared, and MS started throwing money around to pull over PS exclusives.

Problem is, they had up until the payoff for a dual launch the game developed on the PS3 and then had TO SCALE BACK THE GAME to again work in the lowest common denomenator.

8.9 gb vs. 50gb of available space not counting HDD access...

Now visually the GTA series has never been much, but one has to wonder what they might have had in store originally. Was there going to be a GTA crammed with data allowing you to play the eastern seaboard? Would it look better and still have a full sandbox?

Nobody knows but R* and theyr'e not gonna say much since they don't want to tank launch sales.

Unfortunately developers have gotten lazy and think a little tweak of code is enough to develop for two totally different systems.

Honestly for my $60 I expect a lot more.

I think that's why titles like Folklore, Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, and UT3 have done so well. Those are basically first year titles too.

Squenix is known for milking horsepower out of playstations, so I look forward to the next Final Fantasies. They tend to pave the way for other developers and show them what can be done and how.

Think back to the PS2 launch. Games like Fantavision which compared to a game like FFXII just 7 years later. They're nowhere near the same level but on the same system.

So if I am getting first year titles like R&C and Uncharted then I can't wait to see what the future holds.
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Postby godzillasushi on Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:13 pm

Well when it comes to capacity, I have nothing going for me. You're all right about that. And it has come back to hurt MS in a few ways, certainly.

But every time I see Oblivion or something similar I think it can be done on two discs. Whatever game needs to be that big, it can be on one extra disc. Mass Effect's shortcomings technically didn't have to be there. Not from capacity.

PS3 has potential, sure. But I said the same thing when PGR3 came out and PGR4 was a major step. Same with Gears or Halo 3. There is a whole lot of potential for all the platforms. And the future will be exciting.

Maybe GTA was larger so it is too bad. I guess with that extra content we will see things missed out on. That series has gotten stale for me. I hope it's not the same thing with everything looking better. Vice City was awesome.

I'm curious to see how MGS4 sells/scores when it comes out. That would be the PS3's benchmark for me. Everything else is standard. We should expect any console to have 5-6 good games a year. That should never be a suprise to anyone. But I've seen MGS4 proclaimed as the game in many forums and articles. So I'm curious about that meeting such expectations.
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Postby King Psyz on Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:28 pm

I've seen it running, it blew my mind man.

It was like playing a movie, okay like playing Bayowolf, but still...

I mean you know it's CG but it moves so well, large sprite size, insane detail, 60 FPS, holy shits...

It was very impressive, sadly the press nerds were hogging the game and I had to get to work. But I think they might have been playing it on a DS3... dicks.

Once this game hits the streets, well PS will be back in running for sure.
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Postby Dyno on Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:21 pm

godzillasushi wrote:But every time I see Oblivion or something similar I think it can be done on two discs.


You are right on the money with this but again, Microsoft has forbidden any developer from making a multi-disk game because it gives the impression that the 360 cannot do what the PS3 can.

Bethesda came right out in an interview and said they approached Microsoft with the idea of a two-disk game and they said NO WAY.

If companies are bristling under the limits already you can imagine what it's going to be like two years from now.

Actually my concern is that since Microsoft is so powerful and has the biggest user base they might actually retard game advancement a bit, shoehorning all future development into their box for as long as they can.

If it's happening to a AAA title like GTAIV and a company like R* is capitulating then there is no telling were this might end.
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Postby Fievel on Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:27 pm

Two disc games is so PSOne.
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Postby godzillasushi on Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:36 pm

Was Blue Dragon two discs?
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Postby Dyno on Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:01 pm

godzillasushi wrote:Was Blue Dragon two discs?


Actually I think you're right. So forbidden was too strong.

I do know that Oblivion got the definate no though. Maybe because it was a launch title they wanted to give the strong impression that the 360 wasn't 1/2 a PC.
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