Manhunt 2: I SPIT ON YOUR GAME!

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Manhunt 2: I SPIT ON YOUR GAME!

Postby magicmonkey on Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:18 am

Manhunt 2 Banned in the UK.

Story

Seems like Rockstar overstepped the mark, whatever the mark is for making a buck.
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Postby godzillasushi on Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:35 am

magicmonkey wrote:Manhunt 2 Banned in the UK.

Story

Seems like Rockstar overstepped the mark, whatever the mark is for making a buck.


I've been seeing this game here and there but I don't understand what makes it so bad. I've played almost every violent video game in the book and I get the impression that it's just some beat em up. Am I completely wrong? I never bothered with the first one because it looked so lame. It couldn't be that bad.

As for Tony Blair speaking out against Resistance because of the cathedral, give me a freakin break. Churches are featured all the time, and are hardly anything controversal. What happens is that these folks never play the games, and just by word of mouth does it ever reach them. Months after the game is released, they finally start complaining.

Tony Blair wasn't in his office one day playing and said "Hey wait, thats.....thats the church. Ah hellnaw!"
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:37 am

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

WHAT HAPPENS TO MY PRE-ORDER NOW?

:cry:

Worst news I've had all day.

A game like Scarface passes into the country without so much as a whisper of dissent. Become a coke Baron and deliver your enemies a swift chainsaw death? No problem, meng! But it seems that Manhunt 2 has pushed some invisible, indefinable boundary too far. I HATE the BBFC - why the hell are they in charge of game ratings?

Australia uses PAL, don't they? Looks like I'll be handing MonkeyM666 some cash at his leaving drinks. What a joke - I've been looking forward to this for ages. I'll get my PAL copy one way or the other, but this is another nail in the coffin of the BBFC's credibility....

Issuing a certificate to Manhunt 2 would risk the possibility of "unjustifiable harm" to adults and minors, the BBFC concluded.


Essentially, they are saying that the British public simply cannot be trusted to seperate fact from fiction, art from reality? Even more so, they're saying that a guy who plays Manhunt 2 and then stabs somebody could justifiably blame the game for his actions? Kubrick must be laughing his ass off in his grave...
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:12 am

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

WHAT HAPPENS TO MY PRE-ORDER NOW?

:cry:

Worst news I've had all day.

A game like Scarface passes into the country without so much as a whisper of dissent. Become a coke Baron and deliver your enemies a swift chainsaw death? No problem, meng! But it seems that Manhunt 2 has pushed some invisible, indefinable boundary too far. I HATE the BBFC - why the hell are they in charge of game ratings?

Australia uses PAL, don't they? Looks like I'll be handing MonkeyM666 some cash at his leaving drinks. What a joke - I've been looking forward to this for ages. I'll get my PAL copy one way or the other, but this is another nail in the coffin of the BBFC's credibility....


Happy to help you out with some websites that deliver from OZ to theUK if you like TITG (well I think that they go, I'll have to check tonight when I can actually check gaming sites). I would be slightly concerned that Australia may ban it as well soon too... they often follow suit with big named games that have been publicly outed, especially if it comes from the then guardian of the colonys....also John Howard (Aussie PM) is pretty conservative, an avid church goer and likes to get on bandwagons with this sort of thing…. The OFLC is a lumbering beast, but it will get there in the end.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:23 am

I'll keep my fingers crossed about that, Monkey. If it gets banned in OZ? What would my options be? I have a bad feeling that the only other way I could get a PAL one would be to import from Europe - but would that mean that the game wouldn't be in english?

This news has completely thrown me, Manhunt 2 was the big game I was looking forward to this month.

PS - that article says that Carmageddon was the last title banned in the UK, but I'm sure Thrill Kill came after that - wasn't that one banned too?
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:31 am

ThisIsTheGirl wrote:I'll keep my fingers crossed about that, Monkey. If it gets banned in OZ? What would my options be? I have a bad feeling that the only other way I could get a PAL one would be to import from Europe - but would that mean that the game wouldn't be in english?

This news has completely thrown me, Manhunt 2 was the big game I was looking forward to this month.

PS - that article says that Carmageddon was the last title banned in the UK, but I'm sure Thrill Kill came after that - wasn't that one banned too?


So it's banned banned, not just suspended until they edit some stuff out. Yikes! (I can't access the article for some reason so I'm assuming a lot here). I would imagine that you could get an EU version as the language setup should just be an option to change, not specific to each country it’s released in.

You’ll have time though I’d say; OZ usually releases games and then pulls it later.
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Postby godzillasushi on Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:33 am

Then again guys, banned/restricted games typically suck anyway..... :wink:
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:34 am

You're just trying to make TITG feel better...
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Postby godzillasushi on Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:20 pm

Did it *BANNED WORD* work?
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:44 pm

Sadly, it didn't. Thanks for trying, though!

I'm sure it isn't one of the best games ever, but the Wii version got a pretty glowing write-up in this month's Edge magazine (one of the only UK games mags that I pay any heed to). I couldn't find the article online, but it basically said that the Wii version of the game is pretty damn enjoyable and involving, more so than the PS2 version, and let's face it: the Wii could use a few more "grown-up" games right now.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:24 pm

So I hear. There arn't that many coming in the near future though, right? Nintendo need to wake up a bit and cater for EVERYONE, like they say they'll do. It'll only make them more money...
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:06 am

So, after being banned in the UK on Tuesday morning, Manhunt 2 had been banned in Ireland a few hours later. Apparently, the original was never released in Australia, Germany or Canada - so the sequel is even less likely to appear in those countries.

Then, sometime yesterday, the ESRB (the US ratings body) announced that they'd be giving the game an Adults Only (Ao) certificate, which effectively banned the game in the States too - since both Sony and Nintendo have a policy of not allowing Ao games on their consoles. So at the moment, it looks like pretty much a global ban for the game, all precipitated by the actions of the BBFC. There's something a little suspicious about all of this - and I am expecting Rockstar to fight it tooth and nail, since their multimillion dollar investment has just gone up in smoke.

Basically, this sucks. I know that a number of British games journos are planning to launch a campaign to get the other side of the argument heard. I'll post details here as and when I hear them....
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:31 am

and all that because of a church???? Bugger me...:shock:
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:13 am

Monkey, are you talking about Resistance: Fall of Man? That's the game which featured a church in Manchester and got complaints from local residents - I'm not sure what the state of play with that one is, but it's interesting how they seem to be trying to "bury" the news about Manhunt 2 under a load of other gaming-related stories. I think the BBFC knows that they don't have a very strong case for teh b4nning - after all, they didn't have toop much problem giving certificates to the likes of Hostel 2 and Saw 3....
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:50 am

I think I confused myself and thought that Tony B complained about a church being used in Manhunt 2 and that's where it all begun.

hehe... very true about the films though TITG. I would like the BBFC to explain to me what the difference between the two are, and why films that are worse got through and games didn't? If they give me the old 'well your in control of a game' I'll slap them around. For me, because you're in control makes it more placid and more unreal... where films have been scaring the shit of out people for years.

:roll:
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:23 am

I totally agree mate - and I can't actually believe that the game appears to be facing a worldwide b4n now. I really hope that this leads to the creation of a separate organisation to rate videogames, because the BBFC just don't seem to have a clue what they're doing.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:37 am

Reposting this from the locked thread.....

Evil Hobbit wrote:Can't believe there aint a topic yet about this one.

from gamespot:

Manhunt 2 banned in UK wrote:Rockstar Games' Manhunt 2 has achieved the dubious honour of being only one of two games to be banned in the UK. The highly anticipated upcoming title, which casts gamers in the role of doctor Daniel Lam--who offers himself as a guinea pig for a neurological weapons project--was due to go on sale in the country on the Wii, PlayStation Portable, and PlayStation 2 on July 13. However, both the PS2 and Wii versions have been refused a rating by the British Board of Film Classification, meaning they cannot be legally sold in the UK. The PSP version has not yet been submitted to the BBFC for a rating.

The reasoning behind the decision is that, according to BBFC director David Cooke, "Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing. There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game."

Cooke says that the decision is not one that the board has taken lightly, and that where possible, it considers cuts or modifications to the game to remove offensive material. However, in the case of Manhunt 2 "this has not been possible."

The first game in the series, Manhunt, was given an 18 rating by the BBFC when it was released back in 2003. However, Cooke stated that, "Although the difference should not be exaggerated, the fact of the game's unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game." He added that the first title was already "at the very top end" of what it considered acceptable for an 18 certificate, and that it came before the results of recent BBFC research were released.

The game has been refused a certificate on both the Wii and PlayStation 2 platforms, as to release it would "involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors." The board adds that even if the game was confined to an adult release, it would "still be unacceptable to the public."

The game is the first to be refused a classification since Carmageddon in 1997. The car combat game developed by SCi and published by Interplay allowed racers to destroy opponents and murder pedestrians. However, the decision to refuse classification of Carmageddon was overturned on appeal by the Video Appeals Committee.

UK games industry body ELSPA released a statement from director Paul Jackson, which said, "A decision from the BBFC such as this demonstrates that we have a games ratings system in the UK that is effective. It shows it works and works well. Any decision the BBFC takes, it takes on the basis of its remit to rate onscreen entertainment."

The BBFC statement concluded that the game's distributors would also have the right to appeal the decision. Rockstar Games had not returned calls to comment as of press time.

[UPDATE] The Irish Film Censor's Office has also announced that the game has been banned in the Republic of Ireland. In a statement, the board gave its reasoning as follows, "IFCO recognizes that in certain films, DVDs and video games, strong graphic violence may be a justifiable element within the overall context of the work. However, in the case of Manhunt 2, IFCO believes that there is no such context, and the level of gross, unrelenting and gratuitous violence is unacceptable."



again from gamespot:

Sony, Nintendo forbid AO-rated Manhunt 2 wrote:

When Take-Two Interactive yesterday confirmed that the Entertainment Software Rating Board handed down a rating of AO for Adults Only for Rockstar Games' Manhunt 2 on the PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, and Nintendo Wii, the publisher said it was exploring its options.

GameSpot has confirmed with Nintendo and Sony that one of those options, which would be to accept the ESRB's judgment and release the game with the AO rating, isn't an option at all. Both companies forbid licensed third-party publishers from releasing games rated AO for Adults Only on their various hardware platforms. Though Manhunt 2 isn't slated for any of Microsoft's systems, the company has also confirmed that it does not allow AO-rated titles on the Xbox or Xbox 360.

The sole exception to this rule was in 2005 when the already released Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was retroactively rated AO, at which point retailers pulled it from shelves and Take-Two suspended production of the game.

"It's currently our policy not to allow the playback of AO-rated content on our systems," a Sony spokesperson told GameSpot.

Nintendo's official line was much the same. "Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres, and ratings," a representative told GameSpot. "These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television, and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That's why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems."

Take-Two's most readily available alternatives are to appeal the ESRB's AO rating or to modify the game. As of press time, a Rockstar Games representative had not responded to GameSpot's inquiry about how either move would impact the game's scheduled July 10 release date.



Thankfully I live in the Netherlands and even though a promotion greedy politic has already tried to get it banned here the game's gonna be released no matter what on July 13. It'll hit stores with an 18+ rating and can be bought at every gamesshop around the country. Thank god I live in the Netherlands.

But what a bashing and hype around this game. I think it's weird AO games are so out of bounds.

Here is a review

computerandvideogames.com wrote: By now you should know that the BBFC has refused to rate Rockstar's Manhunt 2 on Wii and PS2, meaning that it can't be legally supplied anywhere in the UK. The game was due to be released in a few weeks and UK Nintendo mag NGamer has the exclusive Wii review. CVG picks apart its review of the game you'll now never play.

NGamer's review opens with: "We're certainly not of the opinion that Wii is a family-friendly box piping Nintendo goodness directly into the living rooms of grannies and toddlers around the country. Given the number of times we've strangled for pennies in The Godfather and kneecapped for fun in Resi 4, we have bloody and conclusive evidence to the contrary. Nintendo has long since stopped beating third-party developers with its censor-stick.

"But this... we can't help but be slightly taken aback by its appearance on a Nintendo console. Not surprised, and certainly not shocked, but perhaps a little - excited? - to see the bright white Wii menu fade into the darkness of what is indisputably the most gruesome videogame we've ever played on any platform."

The magazine labels Manhunt 2 as "one of the best games on Wii" citing the astonishing level of brutality is an integral part of the experience. And it's the brutality of the game that the BBFC took into account before effectively banning its release. It says the game "would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors."

The Wii version obviously takes the murdering side of things to the extreme with the motion controlled interface, and this element is undoubtedly the main reason most people would have liked to have picked up the Wii version. "...holding the A button starts to wind up an execution," says the mag. "An icon appears in the corner of the screen, showing a simple Nunchuk or remote motion, which you must copy to initiate the killing."

The review then goes on to explain, "Each execution has several stages, activated by a chopping motion, or a prod, or a slam to the floor, or a sawing movement" and "executions are much more physical with the Wii controls, and we found we felt more immersed in the game world in general thanks to them."

NGamer calls it one of the best-looking games on Wii to date before summing up: "A lot of people are going to be offended by it, for its copious violence and occasional sex scene, and somebody, somewhere is going to get a shock when they walk in on a friend laterally bisecting a hunter's head with realistic sawing motions. Manhunt 2 is what Wii's parental controls are for. The sticker on the box says it's for over 18s only and, believe us, it's not wrong.

"We've deliberately avoided talking about the game's more grisly excesses because these things are best discovered for yourself. You'll wince, you'll jump, you may even laugh at times, but we can guarantee you'll never forget it." The magazine gave the Wii version an impressive 92%.


I sincerely hope you're right about it getting released in Holland, EH! But I keep hearing scary rumours that now the game has effectively been banned in the US, it may not be released at all. Anywhere. I really hope that isn't true......
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Postby thebostonlocksmith on Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:41 am

What was the game that got banned for having a picture of Jamie Bulger behind the desk on the notice board for missing persons, that's pretty sick right there...
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:46 am

That was Law and Order - and I don't think it was banned. Ironically enough, the BBFC passed that game without any complaints, which proves that they only play a quick sample of each game they certify.

I think what happened in that instance is the distributor pulled it off the shelves because they were getting complaints.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:58 am

I'd say that for disapointed gamers a world wide ban is the best thing for Manhunt 2. At least now Rockstar will have to do a redesign and it'll be released everywhere in a few months.

It sucks but it's better then it being banned in 60% of places and only being able to get a SECAM version...
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:07 am

Good point Monkey! Still, I was actually looking forward to the totally OTT gore level in this game. I demand the right to shove a chainsaw down somebody's throat, dammit!
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:21 am

Go to Amsterdam... I hear that there's this Hostel or something you can visit.

I'll be there over the weekend, so I'll 'look into it' for you if you like...
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:36 am

[quote]UK: Manhunt 2 Banned, Rockstar Responds

By Tom Ivan

UPDATE - The British Board of Film Classification has ruled that Rockstar will be unable to release controversial sequel Manhunt 2 in the UK on the grounds of its ultra-violent, provocative nature. Rockstar is "disappointed" with the decision.

Update: Added Rockstar statement.
The ruling means it will be illegal to supply the PS2 and Wii-bound title anywhere in the UK.

“Rejecting a work is a very serious action and one which we do not take lightly. Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board’s published Guidelines,â€
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:39 am

Yes - please do!

Although Evil Hobbit seems pretty sure that the game is still coming out in the Netherlands. Basically, if it gets released anywhere in Europe, I'll be able to get hold of it. I have spies in Greece, Spain and Holland - so I'll be able to get the game. My worry at the moment is that it sounds like the whole thing is going to be canned, at least until Rockstar can tone it down.

Virgin Megastore still have displaycopies on their shelves. When I pointed out that the game had been banned I got the usual "no it hasn't, you're wrong - it's coming out next month." :roll:
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:42 am

:lol:

Durrr TITG, don't you know anything :roll: Manhunt 2 is totally coming out, do you think you know more the the retail sector?? His manager totally told him like last week that it's coming out. Geeze man... don't mess with the hired help.

:lol:

I hate those kinda guys... they're always a pain in the ass.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:27 am

Hmm - I see PLAY are still selling it though. Does their offshore location mean they can get around this or are they just being slack in updating their records?
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:33 am

LOL - good ol' PLAY.

I'd like to say otherwise, but I would bet that they just haven't updated their records yet. Like I say, promo covers of the game are still on the shelves of Virgin. Retailers are always slow as hell to catch up on this stuff
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Postby Doc Holliday on Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:48 am

I suspect you're right TitG. One of the guys here is having none of it and has ordered it anyway - I'll keep an eye on what happens and if he gets the game I'll let you know...
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Postby godzillasushi on Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:55 am

Oh whatever!!!!!

Okay, these bunch of hypocrits are making a huge deal out of nothing!

So the UK decides it to be unfit. Then ESRB follows in stride because, well, they have a need to mimic it. I mean, freaking GTA is far worse then anything out there right now. Maybe it's the graphics and colorful scenery that doesn't give it that sense of realism, but nontheless. I remember this one game on the N64 called Bio Freaks. Check it out, just because it wasn't Rockstar, appearantly Nintendo decided it was acceptable. AO or not.

Somebody can confirm this for me but is Microsoft the same way, not allowing AO material on the console? Rockstar should just release it on the PC.

Anyway, it just bugs me that they decide this game is bad. That after 15 years of some of the most violent video games ever made, now this one is considered bad. I guess snapping necks in Metal Gear Solid and blasting everything that moves in Halo and freaking getting chainsawed in half on Resident Evil 4 isn't as bad as this. :roll:

I really want to see more gameplay footage then what's out there now because theres no way this is that bad.

Oh, but im not done ranting yet!

Rockstar should send thank you letters to both the ESRB and the UK board for helping sales increase on this sucker. If they were trying to stop games like this from being released, all they did was make the public more aware and make every dude on the planet curious.

Arggggghh!
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:04 am

godzillasushi wrote:Anyway, it just bugs me that they decide this game is bad. That after 15 years of some of the most violent video games ever made, now this one is considered bad. I guess snapping necks in Metal Gear Solid and blasting everything that moves in Halo and freaking getting chainsawed in half on Resident Evil 4 isn't as bad as this. :roll:


Well said, that man! Good point about Bio Freaks too - I remember that game!

The latest I heard is that one of the really controversial scenes in Manhunt 2 features a character being decapitated and then someone tries to...um.....do rude things to the corpse's neck. You know what? That STILL isn't a good enough reason to ban the game. The BBFC decide the rating - they could have given it an 18, but by doing this, they have essentially admitted that their own ratings system is deeply flawed.
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Postby papalazeru on Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:22 am

This will become THE most downloaded game in history.
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Postby Fawst on Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:30 am

Some moron at Nintendo wrote:Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres, and ratings. These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television, and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That's why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems.


Fucking HUH??? Basically that entire paragraph is a setup to a punchline, because it's a fucking JOKE. If anyone needs a translation, what that says is "Nintendo caters to a large audience, but MATURE, FREE-THINKING ADULTS, you know, the ones who can afford to purchase the systems, are left out in the cold."

Fuck this noise. Fuck it hard, because we're getting fucked. The thing that really upsets and disturbs me isn't violence in video games. It's the fact that a ratings board exists that has the ability to rate a game in such a way that causes it to be unreleasable on any system outside of the PC platform. Then again, that could change at any moment. Microsoft doesn't allow AO titles on the Xbox/360, so how long until they include the Windows family in that lineup?

I'm thoroughly disgusted with this news. Good job covering your asses Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. Thanks for making sure that adults are punished and children, once again, are safe everywhere from the evils of reality.

<middle finger on right hand faces Japan, middle finger on left faces Redmond, WA>
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:37 am

Fawst wrote:
Some moron at Nintendo wrote:Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres, and ratings. These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television, and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That's why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems.


Fucking HUH??? Basically that entire paragraph is a setup to a punchline, because it's a fucking JOKE. If anyone needs a translation, what that says is "Nintendo caters to a large audience, but MATURE, FREE-THINKING ADULTS, you know, the ones who can afford to purchase the systems, are left out in the cold."

Fuck this noise. Fuck it hard, because we're getting fucked. The thing that really upsets and disturbs me isn't violence in video games. It's the fact that a ratings board exists that has the ability to rate a game in such a way that causes it to be unreleasable on any system outside of the PC platform. Then again, that could change at any moment. Microsoft doesn't allow AO titles on the Xbox/360, so how long until they include the Windows family in that lineup?

I'm thoroughly disgusted with this news. Good job covering your asses Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. Thanks for making sure that adults are punished and children, once again, are safe everywhere from the evils of reality.

<middle finger on right hand faces Japan, middle finger on left faces Redmond, WA>


Upset are we??

Look, you can't blame Nintendo for this... that's just silly. Nintendo have had the same mission statement for the last 20 years don't rag on it now just because it suits. You're anger is misplaced.... damn the man, save the empire!
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Postby godzillasushi on Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:47 am

Nintendo deserves flak on this, totally. Sure they have had that same sort of statement for 20 years MonkeyM, but they have also been part of it.

Like my previously mentioned Bio Freaks, terrible game, also very violent. They put out Advance Wars right? "For the child that hasn't learned about modern warfare yet, here's an accessible learning tool."

They allowed Goldeneye, Mortal Kombat (You know, the new one for the Wii where you can still rip people's limbs off and stuff like that), and Resident Evil 4. They allowed those games.....right?!?!?!? They're re-releasing RE4!!!!!
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:52 am

godzillasushi wrote:Nintendo deserves flak on this, totally. Sure they have had that same sort of statement for 20 years MonkeyM, but they have also been part of it.

Like my previously mentioned Bio Freaks, terrible game, also very violent. They put out Advance Wars right? "For the child that hasn't learned about modern warfare yet, here's an accessible learning tool."

They allowed Goldeneye, Mortal Kombat (You know, the new one for the Wii where you can still rip people's limbs off and stuff like that), and Resident Evil 4. They allowed those games.....right?!?!?!? They're re-releasing RE4!!!!!


RE4 is horror/fantasy.... Zombies and shit; Mortal combat is a fighting game that is obviously a game with the Ninja's, Power bars, 6 armed bosses etc; Golden eye was blocky and not very realistic and is based on a franchise that is not AO. It's not a real looking next gen guy ripping off another real looking guys head and fucking it. There’s a line in the sand and that crosses it for Nintendo. Nintendo are family orientated company, we all know that as they’ve always been like that. I just think that it’s silly do give them stick now just because they’ve done what they always do. I’d be more pissed at Microsoft or Sony as they’re the one’s who have the violent games and have passed on Manhunt 2 this time.
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:59 am

I think Godzilla and Fawst have a point. You can throttle people in the Godfather game on the Wii, bayonet them in Call of Duty 3 - but for some reason, those things are acceptable? I think that's pretty dumb...

...not to mention that Nintendo sanctioned the creation of the Chainsaw-shaped controller for the original Resi Evil 4.....

ETA - good point about Sony though, Monkey!
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Postby godzillasushi on Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:59 am

MonkeyM666 wrote:
godzillasushi wrote:Nin tendo deserves flak on this, totally. Sure they have had that same sort of statement for 20 years MonkeyM, but they have also been part of it.

Like my previously mentioned Bio Freaks, terrible game, also very violent. They put out Advance Wars right? "For the child that hasn't learned about modern warfare yet, here's an accessible learning tool."

They allowed Goldeneye, Mortal Kombat (You know, the new one for the Wii where you can still rip people's limbs off and stuff like that), and Resident Evil 4. They allowed those games.....right?!?!?!? They're re-releasing RE4!!!!!


RE4 is horror/fantasy.... Zombies and shit; Mortal combat is a fighting game that is obviously a game with the Ninja's; Power bars, 6 armed bosses; Golden eye was blocky and not very realistic and is based on a franchise that is not AO. It's not a real looking next gen guy ripping off another real looking guys head and fucking it. There’s a line in the sand and that crosses it for Nintendo. Nintendo are family orientated company, we all know that as they’ve always been like that. I just think that it’s silly do give them stick now just because they’ve done what they always do. I’d be more pissed at Microsoft or Sony as they’re the one’s who have the violent games and have passed on Manhunt 2 this time.


I think if you went back and played Goldeneye you'd be pretty suprised at how violent is still is compared to todays standards. Shooting a guy in the leg causes him to hobble around. It's all very realistic for it's time. The people are somewhat blocky, but they still look like people. Faces and all.

Mortal Kombat is still more violent then it ever was. The gore is awesome, and awesomly bad. You say it had 6-armed bosses and stuff, you're right. It's not to be taken seriously. But Manhunt is like a bunch of Emo kids running around in masks re-enacting a Saw movie. It's not quite apples and oranges. It's more red apples and green apples. :wink:

Violence is violence. I promise you MK has more blood and gore then Manhunt 2.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:02 am

Yeah, I'm not saying that it's not crap that it's been banned but I'm just saying that everyone seems pissed at a company who is, by and large, soft. Just because they have a couple of titles doesn’t mean that they're going to change everything they're about.

I know what you boys are saying; my point is that you have other fish to be pissed at rather then Nintendo in this instance.

(man, I sound like a Ninten-phile or something…:?)

EDIT for GS: I agree... those games are violent but they’re not stab you with a shard of glass, bang your bum and use the blood for lube on the cooling corpse violent. It's not a matter of litres (blood) it’s about then situation and the level of gore. I don't think that they made the right call as there are far worse games out there, but like I've said a couple of times the anger should be placed elsewhere.
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Postby godzillasushi on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:08 am

MonkeyM666 wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying that it's not crap that it's been banned but I'm just saying that everyone seems pissed at a company who is, by and large, soft. Just because they have a couple of titles doesn’t mean that they're going to change everything they're about.

I know what you boys are saying; my point is that you have other fish to be pissed at rather then Nintendo in this instance.

(man, I sound like a Ninten-phile or something…:?)


Heh, yea your Nintendo-fanboyism is strong in this thread :wink:




Anyway, Nintendo is saying one thing and doing another. We can't release an AO game because it has two letters instead of an M or a T. They have a couple of titles, but those titles have been so violent! I can name 5 violent games on Nintendo consoles. While it's only 5 titles, there's still more violence crammed into them then 20 on the Xbox. You physically move your Wii controller when you attack in these shooters. So you're basically making stabbing and hitting motions. Nintendo has always been this console maker that would avoid a majority of the violent titles, but would still allow the worst of the worst.

They just seem, flaky. Always have been.

(And hey, I only know all this because I own all these consoles. I've played it all, seen it all.)



Another Edit: The reason we don't hear much about these violent games is usually because they aren't very good. They suck :P



And one more Edit: We just got done arguing for a week about Memflix and freedom of speech. Well, right here Sony and Nintendo aren't allowing this game. But I bet you could find some really bad movie on Blu-Ray or something. MS isn't part of this particular issue, but you can still download A Clockwork Orange on XBL. Who's to say games are too violent but a movie like that can still be downloaded by anybody.
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Postby Fawst on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:14 am

Monkey, the thing is, I don't even CARE about Manhunt 2. I never played the first, I wasn't that interested, but this one looked like it might be fun to check out.

Nintendo TOTALLY deserves to be railed against, right along with Sony and MS. They made Lucasarts re-code Maniac Mansion on the NES because their CENSORS didn't notice that you could nuke the hamster when using the male or female "rocker" characters. Yes, their CENSORS, the exact word used in Nintendo Power back in the day when that little bit of info came out.

My problem is this: I am an adult, I have the right to choose what I view and do not view. Ratings don't matter for me because of this fact. In the future, I will use them in combination with my own opinion to decide what games any children I may have can or cannot play. I can, and do, enjoy "adult entertainment" on my 360's DVD drive. I find it hypocritical that THAT material can be played on an MS system, but a game can't. So just to be sure my point gets across, MS outright bans digital depictions of acts that I can see HUMANS performing on the same system (there is a sequence in Manhunt 2 where you see a man getting an "enthusiastic" lapdance, according to one review).

My other problem, and I've stated this before, is that I cannot STAND the over the top actions taken by glorified hall monitors who decide what I can and can't play. Or see on television. Or listen to on the radio. Television is the big one for me. There is a V-chip FOR A REASON. So that things deemed inappropriate for children can be blocked out of homes where children can see it. You don't need to remove the content entirely. You don't need to cut down on what's available. There is a check and balance in place to handle that.

Much like this current fiasco. There is a ratings board that tells us what rating a game gets. If it's AO, sell it at Amazing Video if EB/Gamestop won't. If Blockbuster won't put it on their shelf, maybe GameFly will make it available. The point is, people who actually do make rational decisions for themselves and their children are being punished because of conservative "values." I fucking hate that.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:15 am

godzillasushi wrote:
MonkeyM666 wrote:Yea h, I'm not saying that it's not crap that it's been banned but I'm just saying that everyone seems pissed at a company who is, by and large, soft. Just because they have a couple of titles doesn’t mean that they're going to change everything they're about.

I know what you boys are saying; my point is that you have other fish to be pissed at rather then Nintendo in this instance.

(man, I sound like a Ninten-phile or something…:?)


Heh, yea your Nintendo-fanboyism is strong in this thread :wink:

Anyway, Nintendo is saying one thing and doing another. We can't release an AO game because it has two letters instead of an M or a T. They have a couple of titles, but those titles have been so violent! I can name 5 violent games on Nintendo consoles. While it's only 5 titles, there's still more violence crammed into them then 20 on the Xbox. You physically move your Wii controller when you attack in these shooters. So you're basically making stabbing and hitting motions. Nintendo has always been this console maker that would avoid a majority of the violent titles, but would still allow the worst of the worst.

They just seem, flaky. Always have been.

(And hey, I only know all this because I own all these consoles. I've played it all, seen it all.)


You make a good point about the level of violence contained in the violent games that Nintendo releases, but like I keep saying, they're not Microsoft or Sony.

Ahhh... I can't be bothered arguing the point anymore. We all know that it sucks but what are gonna do? It’ll be toned down and re-released before the year is out. Rockstar will let some original copies ‘escape’ and then it’ll be everywhere online for free, therefore creating more demand for torrents and illegal sites and crapping in Rockstars hat.
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Postby Seppuku on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:17 am

godzillasushi wrote:Violence is violence. I promise you MK has more blood and gore then Manhunt 2.


Yeah, but I don't recall any MK character having a finishing move where you get to skullfuck Jax until his head falls apart.

I'm pretty sure the BBFC would censor a scene like that if it were featured in a movie, so I'm not surprised they apply the same logic to the games industry. It's either a matter of passing everything indiscriminately, or knuckling down on a select few games. There's no doubt in my mind that Rockstar intentionally tried to skirt the edges of what they thought they'd get away with- it's their whole thing, isn't it?

Also, to say that all violence is the same is a bit naive. Tone is a big factor here, though one that's pretty subjective. The original Manhunt, though still a little tongue in cheek, went a little further than GTA's bloodsplats on the street.

Though I'd like to be able to watch/play whatever I like, I wouldn't want other people to be debased and demoralised to my level, simply because a game tipped them over the edge.
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Postby papalazeru on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:18 am

I think you are looking for the word...HYPOCRITE!!!

I don't care if they ban it personal. I would rather buy a copy of this but it looks like I'll have to procure it by 'other' means.

It's all stupid Mothers who wish to blame everything else rather than the fact that they would rather go out to work then look after their children (or fathers for that matter). They would rather plonk them in front of the TV and expect that to be a solution, then when things go wrong....because a child can't question a TV....they blame TV...the game....the movie....the magazine.....the toy...etcetera.

Fuck 'em!
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:19 am

Fawst wrote:Monkey, the thing is, I don't even CARE about Manhunt 2. I never played the first, I wasn't that interested, but this one looked like it might be fun to check out.

Nintendo TOTALLY deserves to be railed against, right along with Sony and MS. They made Lucasarts re-code Maniac Mansion on the NES because their CENSORS didn't notice that you could nuke the hamster when using the male or female "rocker" characters. Yes, their CENSORS, the exact word used in Nintendo Power back in the day when that little bit of info came out.

My problem is this: I am an adult, I have the right to choose what I view and do not view. Ratings don't matter for me because of this fact. In the future, I will use them in combination with my own opinion to decide what games any children I may have can or cannot play. I can, and do, enjoy "adult entertainment" on my 360's DVD drive. I find it hypocritical that THAT material can be played on an MS system, but a game can't. So just to be sure my point gets across, MS outright bans digital depictions of acts that I can see HUMANS performing on the same system (there is a sequence in Manhunt 2 where you see a man getting an "enthusiastic" lapdance, according to one review).

My other problem, and I've stated this before, is that I cannot STAND the over the top actions taken by glorified hall monitors who decide what I can and can't play. Or see on television. Or listen to on the radio. Television is the big one for me. There is a V-chip FOR A REASON. So that things deemed inappropriate for children can be blocked out of homes where children can see it. You don't need to remove the content entirely. You don't need to cut down on what's available. There is a check and balance in place to handle that.

Much like this current fiasco. There is a ratings board that tells us what rating a game gets. If it's AO, sell it at Amazing Video if EB/Gamestop won't. If Blockbuster won't put it on their shelf, maybe GameFly will make it available. The point is, people who actually do make rational decisions for themselves and their children are being punished because of conservative "values." I fucking hate that.


The V chip actually exists?? I thought that they gave up on that ages ago.

Fawst I completely agree with everything you said....


just leave Nintendo alone man.... just don't do it man, fanboy's can be KINDA DANGEROUS when provoked....

<ahem>


RRROOAARR!!!




Yeah… so anyway….
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Postby godzillasushi on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:19 am

Fawst wrote:Monkey, the thing is, I don't even CARE about Manhunt 2. I never played the first, I wasn't that interested, but this one looked like it might be fun to check out.

Nintendo TOTALLY deserves to be railed against, right along with Sony and MS. They made Lucasarts re-code Maniac Mansion on the NES because their CENSORS didn't notice that you could nuke the hamster when using the male or female "rocker" characters. Yes, their CENSORS, the exact word used in Nintendo Power back in the day when that little bit of info came out.


Exactly. Nintendo is my point only because it's brought up from that quote earlier.

All three companies do the same stupid stuff.

Sony puts out more junk that kids shouldn't play then anyone else. Plus Blu-Ray movies.

And as I edited earlier, MS is still putting movies on XBL.
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Postby papalazeru on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:20 am

Anyone know when Paedo raper 3 comes out on the Wii.....looks awesome.

;)
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Postby Fawst on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:23 am

Oh, I love me my Nintendo, don't get me wrong :) Some of the best games ever created exist because of them. I just hate censorship, and hiding behind the children to justify it.
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:25 am

Fawst wrote:Oh, I love me my Nintendo, don't get me wrong :) Some of the best games ever created exist because of them. I just hate censorship, and hiding behind the children to justify it.


You could always go and kill the EU head of Nintendo with a swift axe blow to the neck, then make your, err... point to him all night long.
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Postby godzillasushi on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:30 am

I SPIT ON YOUR GAME

seppukudkurosawa wrote:
godzillasushi wrote:Violence is violence. I promise you MK has more blood and gore then Manhunt 2.


Yeah, but I don't recall any MK character having a finishing move where you get to skullfuck Jax until his head falls apart.

I'm pretty sure the BBFC would censor a scene like that if it were featured in a movie, so I'm not surprised they apply the same logic to the games industry. It's either a matter of passing everything indiscriminately, or knuckling down on a select few games. There's no doubt in my mind that Rockstar intentionally tried to skirt the edges of what they thought they'd get away with- it's their whole thing, isn't it?


You should call up the MK guys and suggest it :P

But really, who's to say one act is any different from another when both are brutally wrong and over the top.

This thread is turning into another I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE :wink:

Rockstar is pretty dumb. Of course they would push the line, they always have. Table Tennis makes me wonder what they are smoking over there. :lol:

But I do remember Babe-alities in MK. Those were implying some pretty bad things, wouldn't you say?

I guess maybe im saying, there should be no censorship on this stuff. Just release with that tag instead of complaining about one thing and releasing another, less provocative, violent game.

Sepp wrote:Also, to say that all violence is the same is a bit naive. Tone is a big factor here, though one that's pretty subjective. The original Manhunt, though still a little tongue in cheek, went a little further than GTA's bloodsplats on the street.


Remember when we argued the whole rape on screen and what the difference is between that and someone getting killed in Hostel? It's all pretty bad stuff. And it should be for adults only. But, that's why the AO rating was created. So adults could experience something a kid never should. That's why we have the NC-17 rating of uselessness.

papalazeru wrote:It's all stupid Mothers who wish to blame everything else rather than the fact that they would rather go out to work then look after their children (or fathers for that matter). They would rather plonk them in front of the TV and expect that to be a solution, then when things go wrong....because a child can't question a TV....they blame TV...the game....the movie....the magazine.....the toy...etcetera


But every kid needs to watch Passion of the Christ and Saving Private Ryan! They must learn!

You are correct sir, I neednt say more.



HYPOCRITE is the word of the day.
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Postby papalazeru on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:30 am

A couple of references about some Japanese games which I'm sure some people haven't heard about...

Battle Raper

Biko 3

Totally twisted how we get chastised because the 'Government' is looking after us.

If you want sick, the above descriptions should prove how wrong the censors are to ban a silly game for OVER 18's.

Why on Earth can you have sex and get married at 16 in the UK...which, as far as I'm concerned, SHOULD be about being mature and sensible yet....you can't drink or see an 18 film?

Surely the balance is wrong there.

Why do I need protecting? Surely it should be you guys needing protection from Papa...
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