
Completed them both with bonus footage.
godzillasushi wrote:I guess maybe im saying, there should be no censorship on this stuff. Just release with that tag instead of complaining about one thing and releasing another, less provocative, violent game.
Remember when we argued the whole rape on screen and what the difference is between that and someone getting killed in Hostel? It's all pretty bad stuff. And it should be for adults only. But, that's why the AO rating was created. So adults could experience something a kid never should. That's why we have the NC-17 rating of uselessness.
seppukudkurosawa wrote:Oh, btw, you should totally get a mod to change the title of this thread to Manhunt II: I Spit on Your Game!
seppukudkurosawa wrote:
I know you're together enough to handle Manhunt II, and I know I am (not sure about papalazeru though......), but I don't think everyone immediately hits enlightenment on their eighteenth birthday, and I'd imagine the BBFC agrees with me. Hell, I was about twenty times more mature at the age of 12 than I was at 18. I don't buy that whole "games turn you into Ted Bundy" argument, but still, at the age of 18 you're only a few years older than you were when you were tucked into bed at 7pm, where you dreamt of how hot the Love-a-Lot Bear was in the Care Bears (....or maybe that was just papalazeru).
papalazeru wrote:Then of course.....that would solve almost every problem under the sun....apart from Cancer.
godzillasushi wrote:But, we have Chuck Norris's tears for that...
Oh right, he's never cried.
Fried Gold wrote:As the first Manhunt was directly linked to a murder, I suspect that:
a. Rockstar won't win their court appeal.
b. Rockstar will have to make a lot of court enforced cuts made before any release.
c. Rockstar won't stop making crap games that sell loads because of interactive gore.
ThisIsTheGirl wrote:No, I'm sure you're right. I think if there hadn't been a Wii version, this might not have caused such a stir with the ratings boards - but still, I can remember playing games like Operation Wolf years ago - if holding a big machine gun with "realistic" sounds in my hands didn't make me want to shoot people when I was a kid, I don't see how holding the tiny plastic Wiimote is gonna make me want to chainsaw people's noses off - ya know?
Fried Gold wrote:ThisIsTheGirl wrote:No, I'm sure you're right. I think if there hadn't been a Wii version, this might not have caused such a stir with the ratings boards - but still, I can remember playing games like Operation Wolf years ago - if holding a big machine gun with "realistic" sounds in my hands didn't make me want to shoot people when I was a kid, I don't see how holding the tiny plastic Wiimote is gonna make me want to chainsaw people's noses off - ya know?
You might not. But the issue is that there might be someone who can't quite resolve the difference.
I can think of loads of kids I've taught in schools who don't have the social skills neccesary to understand.
ThisIsTheGirl wrote:That's good to hear, KON - but I still haven't been able to find out about this Ao thing - a couple of people have said that once a game gets an Ao cert in the States, Nintendo and Sony have a policy of just not allowing the game on their console at all.
Evil Hobbit wrote:Nintendo isn't banning the game because it's to violent or anything, they ban it because they can't make a profit out of an AO-rated title that won't be sold at the major stores. In the end it's a company that only wants to make profit so they cover their ass. Only I think that after all this media fuzz, the banning in the uk, the interest in this game has grown so much that people would have searched all over the country to get a copy. The smaller retailers will be overrun by sellers and it would have grown to the biggest selling AO-game ever. Starting a chain-reaction where developers finally see, games made only for adults, and adults only, do make profit.
godzillasushi wrote:
Why don't they sell it online then? Why doesn't Rockstar sell it online? They'd make money off their websites.
king_of_nowhere wrote:godzillasushi wrote:
Why don't they sell it online then? Why doesn't Rockstar sell it online? They'd make money off their websites.
because Nintendo & Sony would sue
godzillasushi wrote:Evil Hobbit wrote:Nintendo isn't banning the game because it's to violent or anything, they ban it because they can't make a profit out of an AO-rated title that won't be sold at the major stores. In the end it's a company that only wants to make profit so they cover their ass. Only I think that after all this media fuzz, the banning in the uk, the interest in this game has grown so much that people would have searched all over the country to get a copy. The smaller retailers will be overrun by sellers and it would have grown to the biggest selling AO-game ever. Starting a chain-reaction where developers finally see, games made only for adults, and adults only, do make profit.
Why don't they sell it online then? Why doesn't Rockstar sell it online? They'd make money off their websites.
Fawst wrote:Remind me to open my own chain of game stores that DON'T force feed you the "Hey, you came in to buy Uber Fantasy Realm Online Volume 2? You REALLY should reserve your copy of Madden 200x! It's gonna sell out you know!" And where we WILL sell "Pimp & Ho Simulator X," rated Adults Only!
Fried Gold wrote:godzillasushi wrote:Evil Hobbit wrote:Nintendo isn't banning the game because it's to violent or anything, they ban it because they can't make a profit out of an AO-rated title that won't be sold at the major stores. In the end it's a company that only wants to make profit so they cover their ass. Only I think that after all this media fuzz, the banning in the uk, the interest in this game has grown so much that people would have searched all over the country to get a copy. The smaller retailers will be overrun by sellers and it would have grown to the biggest selling AO-game ever. Starting a chain-reaction where developers finally see, games made only for adults, and adults only, do make profit.
Why don't they sell it online then? Why doesn't Rockstar sell it online? They'd make money off their websites.
Because the rating would still apply. The online store would be illegally selling (to the UK). And in the US, the game wouldn't be recognised as an officially licenced game for that console and Nintendo/Sony would get REALLY ANGRY.
godzillasushi wrote:Fawst wrote:Remind me to open my own chain of game stores that DON'T force feed you the "Hey, you came in to buy Uber Fantasy Realm Online Volume 2? You REALLY should reserve your copy of Madden 200x! It's gonna sell out you know!" And where we WILL sell "Pimp & Ho Simulator X," rated Adults Only!
IPAMPILASH YOU CRAZY BASTARD!!!!!
I'll compete with you're gaming store. We're going to sell only AO games. Games such as Sim Stripper 2008, pr0n Bot Pro, and Shawshank Redemption 2029: The shanking.
Fried Gold wrote:Nintendo/Sony would get REALLY ANGRY.
Fawst wrote:Fried Gold wrote:godzillasushi wrote:Evil Hobbit wrote:Nintendo isn't banning the game because it's to violent or anything, they ban it because they can't make a profit out of an AO-rated title that won't be sold at the major stores. In the end it's a company that only wants to make profit so they cover their ass. Only I think that after all this media fuzz, the banning in the uk, the interest in this game has grown so much that people would have searched all over the country to get a copy. The smaller retailers will be overrun by sellers and it would have grown to the biggest selling AO-game ever. Starting a chain-reaction where developers finally see, games made only for adults, and adults only, do make profit.
Why don't they sell it online then? Why doesn't Rockstar sell it online? They'd make money off their websites.
Because the rating would still apply. The online store would be illegally selling (to the UK). And in the US, the game wouldn't be recognised as an officially licenced game for that console and Nintendo/Sony would get REALLY ANGRY.
I have a question, and I am too lazy to really check this out for myself. Are games that are rated AO outright banned in the UK? Is that the issue here? I've completely overlooked that part of the story due to my utter rage and fury at MS/Sony/Nintendo for not allowing AO games on the systems.
The ESRB wrote:The ESRB is an organization that rates computer and video games in terms of age-appropriateness and game content. We do not create, publish, market or sell entertainment software.
Gamespot.com wrote:Take-Two shelves Manhunt 2
Plans to release game "temporarily suspended" while publisher continues exploring options.
By Brendan Sinclair, GameSpot
Posted Jun 21, 2007 3:16 pm PT
In the wake of international bans and an Adults Only rating in the US, Manhunt 2 won't make its July 10 release date, Take-Two Interactive has confirmed. The game had been expected to ship that day for the PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, and Nintendo Wii.
"Take-Two Interactive Software has temporarily suspended plans to distribute Manhunt 2 for the Wii or PlayStation platforms while it reviews its options with regard to the recent decisions made by the British Board of Film Classification and Entertainment Software Rating Board," a representative told GameSpot. "We continue to stand behind this extraordinary game. We believe in freedom of creative expression, as well as responsible marketing, both of which are essential to our business of making great entertainment."
While the ESRB's initial rating of an AO for Adults Only doesn't explicitly prohibit the game from being sold, most major US retailers refuse to carry AO games, and console manufacturers prohibit their third-party publishers from releasing AO titles on their systems.
Fried Gold wrote:ThisIsTheGirl wrote:No, I'm sure you're right. I think if there hadn't been a Wii version, this might not have caused such a stir with the ratings boards - but still, I can remember playing games like Operation Wolf years ago - if holding a big machine gun with "realistic" sounds in my hands didn't make me want to shoot people when I was a kid, I don't see how holding the tiny plastic Wiimote is gonna make me want to chainsaw people's noses off - ya know?
You might not. But the issue is that there might be someone who can't quite resolve the difference.
Banned video game is 'fine art'
Manhunt 2 is described by its makers as an 'entertainment experience'
The US publishers of a video game banned in the UK and Ireland have described it as a "fine piece of art". Take Two chairman Strauss Zelnick said Manhunt 2 had his full support and that consumers should decide for themselves.
"The Rockstar team has come up with a game that fits squarely within the horror genre and was intended to do so," Mr Zelnick said in a statement.
The sale of the game is unlikely to go ahead in the US and has not been granted certification in the UK.
"It brings a unique, formerly unheard of cinematic quality to interactive entertainment, and is also a fine piece of art," Mr Zelnick said.
The game has been designed Adult Only in the US but both Nintendo and Sony have confirmed that the title will not be able to be released on their platforms as originally intended. In a statement, developers Rockstar said they were disappointed by the British Board of Film Classification's (BBFC) decision to refuse classification of Manhunt 2.
It said: "While we respect the authority of the classification board and will abide by the rules, we emphatically disagree with this particular decision. The adult consumers who would play this game fully understand that it is fictional interactive entertainment and nothing more "
Rockstar are also the developers of other controversial titles including Grand Theft Auto and Canis Canem Edit.
In rejecting the game, David Cooke, director of the BBFC, said: "Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone.
"There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game."
Rockstar's statement continued: "We believe all products should be rated to allow the public to make informed choices about the media and art they wish to consume. The stories in modern videogames are as diverse as the stories in books, film and television. The adult consumers who would play this game fully understand that it is fictional interactive entertainment and nothing more."
Manhunt 2 was developed for the Nintendo Wii and PlayStation 2 consolesRockstar statement wrote:"Manhunt 2 is an entertainment experience for fans of psychological thrillers and horror. The subject matter of this game is in line with other mainstream entertainment choices for adult consumers."
Doc wrote:Do consoles get sold with additional "splatter packs", that squirt geysers of arterial blood over us as we hack away?
ThisIsTheGirl wrote:Ha - so true!
"A fine piece of art" - stretching it a bit there, isn't he?Doc wrote:Do consoles get sold with additional "splatter packs", that squirt geysers of arterial blood over us as we hack away?
That would be AWESOME!!!!
In seriousness though, what do you say to my earlier comments about 20-year old games like Operation Wolf already setting the precedent for putting weapon-like controllers into the hands of children? It seems to me that mimicking a sawing action with a tiny Wiimote is one thing, but the vast array of light gun-based games never seem to attract this level of flak. I just find it all very strange. Plus, as I've said - it's not as if there aren't already several Wii games where you have to make physical motions to mimic the act of, say, bayonetting a Nazi soldier in the chest, or strangling one of your enemies in The Godfather? And who's to say that playing Wii baseball won't predispose you towards beating people up with a real baseball bat?
Obviously, I lean towards thinking that the ban is OTT, but I'm still making my mind up so I'm interested to hear all sides to the argument, as long as people concentrate on demonstrable points and not blind speculation. Still haven't been able to verify the neck-sex thing though....
kid on an escalator wrote:And I read some stupid bs in this thread about how Nintendo censored stuff back in the 80s. That's 20 years ago. The Nintendo back then is not the same Nintendo we have now. BMX XXX and killer7 were censored on PS2 but not on Gamecube. That should tell you something about how different Nintendo are today.
kid on an escalator wrote:EDIT: The game is, as expected, on hold. They obviously want it down to a M rating so that they can sell the game at all.
Link
Fawst wrote:kid on an escalator wrote:And I read some stupid bs in this thread about how Nintendo censored stuff back in the 80s. That's 20 years ago. The Nintendo back then is not the same Nintendo we have now. BMX XXX and killer7 were censored on PS2 but not on Gamecube. That should tell you something about how different Nintendo are today.
Er, stupid BS? My point was that Nintendo essentially began the censorship of video games. IN-HOUSE. They had an internal team that would play the games being released, and if something didn't fit their bill of what was "appropriate," it was sent back to be altered before they would release it. Precedent set. They weren't the only ones, either. Sega did the same shit. I forget the name of the game, but there was a bad fantasy action game where statues of winged fairies had visible (if you squinted, and looked really hard, and could get past the 16-bit pixelation) nipples. The game was shelved until they were removed. Meanwhile another action game comes out where you shoot people and their heads explode. Hit them in the leg? No problem! You still get an exploding head! Fucking hypocritical.
godzillasushi wrote:Well said Andy "wheelchair accessable" Moogle. You are right.
And as a matter of fact, Killer 7 and BMX XXX just made my point better from a previous post. Nintendo publishes a few adult games, they just happen to be the worst of the bunch. How was this any different? (Yes stores don't sell AO games but Nintendo can online)
Anyway, the motion controller is a little far.
Anyone think that it would not have been banned if the ESRB got their hands on it first? I think that if anything the ESRB might have let this one sneak past if the story from the UK didn't break first. These ratings things always seem to be based on whoever gets to it first.
"Oh, well they passed it, so I guess it must be alright."
Sweden will be flooded with violence when this game comes out. You better be careful Andy. Sweden will become the LA of the world. Better practice up on your GTA-style kill skills.
Doc Holliday wrote:godzillasushi wrote:Well said Andy "wheelchair accessable" Moogle. You are right.
And as a matter of fact, Killer 7 and BMX XXX just made my point better from a previous post. Nintendo publishes a few adult games, they just happen to be the worst of the bunch. How was this any different? (Yes stores don't sell AO games but Nintendo can online)
Anyway, the motion controller is a little far.
Anyone think that it would not have been banned if the ESRB got their hands on it first? I think that if anything the ESRB might have let this one sneak past if the story from the UK didn't break first. These ratings things always seem to be based on whoever gets to it first.
"Oh, well they passed it, so I guess it must be alright."
Sweden will be flooded with violence when this game comes out. You better be careful Andy. Sweden will become the LA of the world. Better practice up on your GTA-style kill skills.
Do I hypothesise that this game will lead to killing sprees? No, I do not. It would seem the finer points of my argument are lost on you.
Happy shooting, kid.
Fawst wrote:kid on an escalator wrote:And I read some stupid bs in this thread about how Nintendo censored stuff back in the 80s. That's 20 years ago. The Nintendo back then is not the same Nintendo we have now. BMX XXX and killer7 were censored on PS2 but not on Gamecube. That should tell you something about how different Nintendo are today.
Er, stupid BS? My point was that Nintendo essentially began the censorship of video games. IN-HOUSE. They had an internal team that would play the games being released, and if something didn't fit their bill of what was "appropriate," it was sent back to be altered before they would release it. Precedent set. They weren't the only ones, either. Sega did the same shit. I forget the name of the game, but there was a bad fantasy action game where statues of winged fairies had visible (if you squinted, and looked really hard, and could get past the 16-bit pixelation) nipples. The game was shelved until they were removed. Meanwhile another action game comes out where you shoot people and their heads explode. Hit them in the leg? No problem! You still get an exploding head! Fucking hypocritical.
godzillasushi wrote:Sweden will be flooded with violence when this game comes out. You better be careful Andy. Sweden will become the LA of the world. Better practice up on your GTA-style kill skills.
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