Teh Suk!

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

Okay... this a forum, she's a for naming the culprits for a the WORST ideas anna/or a the WORST runs inna your favorite funny books, eh? You know a the ones... the ones that made a you (okay, almost made a you) stop a reading the book, no?

For example... Louise Simonsen's writing onna the New Mutants. She killed a the book inna the Dino's opinion. KILLED it.

Also, Walt Simonsen's art onna the X-Factor series early on... around a the time the Beast got back a his fur. Talk about a the phoning it in, eh? To be a fair, maybe it was a the inker's fault... who knows?

Anna the combination of a the two onna the X-Factor book? DEADLY... who could a forget a the whole "everytime a the beast uses his a strength, he gets a the dumbere?" Holy crappa!

[burlivesleftnut]

Hulk lost in the crossroads... dumb.

[Tyrone_Shoelaces]

I wish I knew the names responsible but two words: Spider Clone.

[burlivesleftnut]

I didnt read it, but having Gwen Stacy fuck the Green Goblin is pretty dumb.

[DennisMM]

Nightfall/Knightqest/Knightend. Bane in general.

Bruce Wayne, one of the world's great strategists, doesn't call for help when every rogue in Gotham is loose? Completely artificial, even more than Doomsday.

And, tying into the brush witha greatness thread, one night as I worked in "my" record store, a fella was looking around. He had a Superman lapel pin, just like the one I own. "He's coming back, you know," I said. "I know," said Dan Jurgens." I write and draw Superman."

[Adam Balm]

So this was during the whole 'Death' thing...

[burlivesleftnut]

Does anyone remember when West Coast Avengers went from being one of the coolest Mini-Series around to being an incredible badly drawn ongoing? I can't remember the artist, but it was so fucking terrible I wanted to claw Adam Balm's eyes out.

[DennisMM]

"Thriller" #8-12. (DC Comics, 1983) They replaced Robert Loren Fleming with Bill Dubay and Trevor von Eeden with Alex Nino. Both men were capable, but "Thriller" was beyond them.

Continuing "American Flagg" and "Jon Sable, Freelance" after Chaykin and Grell, respectively, decided to leave.

Publishing anything with Ambush Bug after the first miniseries.

Turning Superman into "Electric Superman."

Letting Kevin Smith write comics after "Daredevil."

Most of the original and many of the later Image Comics. The only decent things that grew out of Image are "Savage Dragon," Alan Moore's run on "Supreme," "1963" and the origins of the Wildstorm line.

Two words: "DC Challenge" (1985). A 12-issue, round-robin "mystery" written and drawn by different people each issue, with no overall plot.

[DennisMM]

Does anyone remember when West Coast Avengers went from being one of the coolest Mini-Series around to being an incredible badly drawn ongoing? I can't remember the artist, but it was so fucking terrible I wanted to claw Adam Balm's eyes out.

From a quick web search I'm guessing Al Milgrom. He was a mediocre inker and a horrible penciller. He did, however, give us the return of the gray Hulk during his writing career.

[burlivesleftnut]

But the Gray Hulk was lame. There was also an Uncanny X-Men artist, post Romita Jr. in the 200s who was just vile. Find that one too. Find him and hit him with a brick.

[DennisMM]

But the Gray Hulk was lame. There was also an Uncanny X-Men artist, post Romita Jr. in the 200s who was just vile. Find that one too. Find him and hit him with a brick.

I liked the gray Hulk. It was especially entertaining when Bruce finally de-Hulked and woke up in Marlo's apartment, to learn "Joe Fixit" had been shtupping Marlo for months.

Marlo was originally meant to be a hooker, but Marvel pressured Peter David into making her a showgirl.

[burlivesleftnut]

I didn't read any of that. I just remember seeing hulk with a wife beater on and some kind of, um, hair cut? And I thought, "Wow. teh suk." And it totally made me want to gouge Adam Balm's eyes out.

[DennisMM]

There was also an Uncanny X-Men artist, post Romita Jr. in the 200s who was just vile. Find that one too. Find him and hit him with a brick.

You've stumped me on that one. Has anyone drawn the Uncanny X-Men for more than a year, lately?

[DennisMM]

I didn't read any of that. I just remember seeing hulk with a wife beater on and some kind of, um, hair cut? And I thought, "Wow. teh suk." And it totally made me want to gouge Adam Balm's eyes out.

That was in the Jeff Purvis period, if I recall. I hated the art, but stuck with the book for David's writing. Hell, I stuck with it through Deodato's work, which really was teh suk.

[bluebottle]

was that period of grey hulk right after mcfarlaine worked on it for a couple issues?

cuz the artwork was so bad for a while (not saying mcfarlaine is great, but it was really engaging at the time) that i couldn't read it.

and i was never a fan of the whole "grey hulk" thing anyway.

x-men:

gambit, wolverine losing the adamantium skeleton (and having bone claws)

[burlivesleftnut]

wolverine losing the adamantium skeleton (and having bone claws)

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH Dumb

Oh I have a good one. Green Lantern from its first issue through now.

[bluebottle]

anything "flash" after crisis #8

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

gambit, wolverine losing the adamantium skeleton (and having bone claws)

I gotta agree onna the Gambit, although I did like a the scene where Magneto ripped a the adamantium right out of a the Wolverine's pores though. It's a like, you always a knew he could a do it, but he always a hold a himself back for a whatever reason... but we alla have a the moments when a we lose it, eh? Wolverine, he give a Magneto a the slice, Magneto freaks anna says "you animal!" anna then BAM! The game, she's over!

Anna then Wolverine's healing factor a trying to compensate for a the loss of a the adamantium... it's a the stretch, but I can a KIND of a suspend a my disbelief.

[so sorry]

Wolverine lost his adamantine skeleton? what the fuck,did he turn into a bowl of jelly?
(in case you can't tell, i don't read comic books, so i don't know these things).

[DennisMM]

Wolverine lost his adamantine skeleton? what the fuck,did he turn into a bowl of jelly?
(in case you can't tell, i don't read comic books, so i don't know these things).

Yeah, over the years they changed their view of Wolverine's skeleton. First, they said many of his bones had been replaced and others bonded with adamantium. Then the "bonded with" line became canon, and finally we learned his claws had always been part of him, adamantium or not.

That doesn't explain why they're shaped like blades much of the time, when his own claws are roughly circular.

So many things have changed about Wolverine. When he was introduced at the end of "Hulk" #180 we weren't even told he was a mutant. Then he had hightened senses. Then the healing factor. Then the bone claws.

Don't forget the "how old is Wolverine?" sweepstakes. When Lein Wein created him, he was meant to be an impetuous, raw recruit to the Canadian special forces, about 19. Chris Claremont established him as being in his 40s or 50s during his long "X-Men" run. Some "Marvel Comics Presents" stories from the '80s and '90s made it clear that he was at least 75 or 80. Then they did "Origin," which establishes his age as somewhere around 140, if my guess is correct that it's set in the mid-to-late 1870s.

<whew!>

Off to bag up some books for mailing.

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

No, just a the adamantium bonded a to his a real bones... it was a pretty traumatic for a him though.

[bluebottle]

Yeah, they kept making Wolverine older, i thought they were going to basically "make him" lone wolf.

[DennisMM]

Yeah, they kept making Wolverine older, i thought they were going to basically "make him" lone wolf.

Don't even think about it. God.

[bluebottle]

Someone mentioned the spider clone thing, but OH MAN.

when they said that Ben Riley was the REAL Peter Parker... That just sucked. It sucked so much, they changed their minds and said the DNA test was tampered with, which to me is even worse than writing the original shitty story in the first place.

[Tyrone_Shoelaces]

Rob Liefeld.

[so sorry]

DNA testing in fucking comic books?
man, talk about a lack of creativity. Did this Ben Riley guy slash his wife's head off and get away with it too?

[DennisMM]

DNA testing in fucking comic books?
man, talk about a lack of creativity. Did this Ben Riley guy slash his wife's head off and get away with it too?

Ben Riley was Peter Parker's clone from a story back in 1973(?). He was thought dead and his body supposedly disposed of by Peter. At that point the clone had no name; he was just "the clone," a replicate of Peter in body and mind.

In the mid-'90s Marvel decided Spider-Man wasn't friendly enough to young readers. Peter was now in his mid-20s, married and had a long continuity to deal with. They decided to wipe it clean by having the "dead" clone not be dead. Also, the "clone" was not the clone at all -- our Peter, who had won the fight, who disposed of the body of the "dead clone," was, in fact, the clone!

Every story since that issue of ASM had been about the clone. The clone dropped out of Empire State University. The clone revealed his identity to a dying kid. The clone married Mary Jane.

The real Peter Parker, thought dead, had been out there all this time, thinking he was the clone! He came back to New York, confronted "clone Peter (the real Peter)" and they decided it wasn't really fair to "real Peter (the actual clone, now named Ben Riley)" to have had his life stolen.

Beyond that it got weird. "Clone (actually real) Peter" dyed his hair and created another superhero identity -- several if I recall (and it's difficult, because I didn't read most of the story). In the end, outraged fans forced Marvel to backslide. It turned out our beloved Peter was the real Peter, the clone had been wandering the world thinking he was real, and the clone died.

I think it took about two years to tell the story.

[DennisMM]

But back to teh suk.

"American Century." Who knew Howard Chaykin could be dull?

Multiple covers, especiall Gen13 for doing 13 covers on one issue.

Bagged comics, which couldn't be graded without opening the bag, thus reducing the grade. So a possibly damaged comic in the sealed, opaque bag was theoretically worth more than an NM comic in an opened bag.

Most of Chaos! Comics

Most of Eros Comics

The disappearance of letters pages from most comics. Many people don't have regular web access and so can't read message boards.

CGC and the insane prices CGC comics bring compared to non-slabbed comics. No comic should be sealed away. Comics exist to be read.

CBG going monthly, in magazine format. CBG was a newspaper -- it gave you the news as much as anything else. Again, that's been replaced by an online presence not available to all.

[burlivesleftnut]

DNA testing in fucking comic books?
man, talk about a lack of creativity. Did this Ben Riley guy slash his wife's head off and get away with it too?

Ben Riley was Peter Parker's clone from a story back in 1973(?). He was thought dead and his body supposedly disposed of by Peter. At that point the clone had no name; he was just "the clone," a replicate of Peter in body and mind.

In the mid-'90s Marvel decided Spider-Man wasn't friendly enough to young readers. Peter was now in his mid-20s, married and had a long continuity to deal with. They decided to wipe it clean by having the "dead" clone not be dead. Also, the "clone" was not the clone at all -- our Peter, who had won the fight, who disposed of the body of the "dead clone," was, in fact, the clone!

Every story since that issue of ASM had been about the clone. The clone dropped out of Empire State University. The clone revealed his identity to a dying kid. The clone married Mary Jane.

The real Peter Parker, thought dead, had been out there all this time, thinking he was the clone! He came back to New York, confronted "clone Peter (the real Peter)" and they decided it wasn't really fair to "real Peter (the actual clone, now named Ben Riley)" to have had his life stolen.

Beyond that it got weird. "Clone (actually real) Peter" dyed his hair and created another superhero identity -- several if I recall (and it's difficult, because I didn't read most of the story). In the end, outraged fans forced Marvel to backslide. It turned out our beloved Peter was the real Peter, the clone had been wandering the world thinking he was real, and the clone died.

I think it took about two years to tell the story.

They should make a movie about that. I mean Dennis writing the post. His summary was more interesting than the actual story I am sure.

[DennisMM]

was that period of grey hulk right after mcfarlaine worked on it for a couple issues?

cuz the artwork was so bad for a while (not saying mcfarlaine is great, but it was really engaging at the time) that i couldn't read it.

and i was never a fan of the whole "grey hulk" thing anyway.

Purvis was shortly after McFarlane, but there was a short run between by Erik Larsen.

Ah, but the gray Hulk led into David exploiting the multiple identity syndrome idea Milgrom had vaguely established. So we got both Hulks for a while, then giant merged Banner/Gray/Green Hulk, and the great if overlong Pantheon story. With some great art by Dale McKeown, possibly my favorite Hulk artist in 30+ years.

[DennisMM]

They should make a movie about that. I mean Dennis writing the post. His summary was more interesting than the actual story I am sure.

I must say, it was something of an effort.

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

Hey Dennis... have a you seen a the Dennis Pez Dispenser yet? It's inna the Zone Rank Names thread, eh?

[DennisMM]

Hey Dennis... have a you seen a the Dennis Pez Dispenser yet? It's inna the Zone Rank Names thread, eh?

I have not. I will look now, before my break ends. Thanks!

[burlivesleftnut]

It's so surreal to read you asking about it, while its already in his avatar. It's like time and space just assram'd itself.

[DinoDeLaurentiis]

Unnafortunately, you canna see the detail... the second pez inna the dispenser, she does actually a rise up as a the first one is a coming out, eh? Iffa you look you can a JUST make it out...

I put a lot of a love inna to it.

[DennisMM]

Unnafortunately, you canna see the detail... the second pez inna the dispenser, she does actually a rise up as a the first one is a coming out, eh? Iffa you look you can a JUST make it out...

I put a lot of a love inna to it.

I believe you, Dino, I believe you. When I look closely I can see that second pez. Wow!

Yes, having one's avatar change on all existing posts can make the space-time continuum seem torn. Once I was on a board where posts before you created an avatar remained blank, even once an avatar was loaded.

Hmm, I say.

[burlivesleftnut]

Yeah the last board I was on, the avatars and sigs were locked for that particular post. It created a nice living record of the spazziness of the posters.

[DennisMM]

Yeah the last board I was on, the avatars and sigs were locked for that particular post. It created a nice living record of the spazziness of the posters.

Exactly.

What happened to teh suk?

[The Garbage Man]

Most of the original and many of the later Image Comics. The only decent things that grew out of Image are "Savage Dragon," Alan Moore's run on "Supreme," "1963" and the origins of the Wildstorm line.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there.

Invincible kicks much ass. The career of Robert Kirkman more than justifies all the shit Image has pumped out over the years.

[DennisMM]

Most of the original and many of the later Image Comics. The only decent things that grew out of Image are "Savage Dragon," Alan Moore's run on "Supreme," "1963" and the origins of the Wildstorm line.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there.

Invincible kicks much ass. The career of Robert Kirkman more than justifies all the shit Image has pumped out over the years.

I wasn't counting in some of the more recent stuff, which would have included "Invincible," and all the way back to "Powers." When I think Image I still tend to think of the old stuff, the original "Image crew" that formed Image to sell their own work, which mostly sucked, as has so much of their stuff since.

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific.

[ONeillSG1]

Rob Liefeld.

I think he made the worst picture of Captain America ever.

Hell it is probably the worst picture of any comic book character, nay the entire world of artistic creation.

My god, get a copy of Gray's Anatomy and READ IT like it was Revelation.

Jeez.

EDIT: I typed in the phrase "he d r e w" and it came out "he Draw". What, is the Dino-translator stuck on the "On" position for this thread?

[DennisMM]

Rob Liefeld.

I think he made the worst picture of Captain America ever.

Hell it is probably the worst picture of any comic book character, nay the entire world of artistic creation.

My god, get a copy of Gray's Anatomy and READ IT like it was Revelation.

Jeez.

EDIT: I typed in the phrase "he d r e w" and it came out "he Draw". What, is the Dino-translator stuck on the "On" position for this thread?

Peter David did some hilarious piss-taking on Liefeld in his CBG column. He'd show Liefeld swipes with the originals, or uncorrected art Liefeld had turned in, with such wonders as a pay phone with 9 keys, a human figure taller than a streetlight, and Cap's boot lacking a heel.

God, Liefeld -- remember his Levis commercial? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Tyrone_Shoelaces]

How many times has Liefeld been fired by Marvel? 3? 4? I'm amazed his pencils haven't been confiscated yet.

[Pacino86845]

The funny thing about Rob Liefeld is that I always found he looked just like how he drew his characters, especially the faces and haircuts... I guess it's appropriate that I've never seen his feet... hehehe

[burlivesleftnut]

Anyone care to post a link to this Cap picture?

[Colin]

Damn me for doing this to you, Burl...and damn you for doing this to me...

[burlivesleftnut]

Oh man that is terrible! I thought it everyone was exaggerating.

Wow. I mean. WOW.

How did that ever get published?

[Colin]

It was used in Wizard magazine.

[burlivesleftnut]

Well atleast he doesn't have that moronic A on his head.

[DennisMM]

Oh man that is terrible! I thought it everyone was exaggerating.

Wow. I mean. WOW.

How did that ever get published?

Desperation on Marvel's part and a willingness to pander to fanboys.

Well atleast he doesn't have that moronic A on his head.

He did later in the run, after they booted Liefeld. Cap tore the S.H.I.E.L.D. eagle off and put on an "A".