CIVIL WAR--NEW MASSIVE SPOILERS- BEWARE!!!!!!

Graphic novels. Weekly rags. The @$$holes.

Whose side are you on?

Iron Man
13
14%
Captain America
64
69%
undecided
16
17%
 
Total votes : 93

Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:37 pm

Colin wrote:I'm pretty sure we are, just with different eyes. Say, weren't you the one who was singing praises for Roger Cruz a few months back?

:oops:

Yeah, though his recent two-issue stint on X-Men left quite a bit to be desired.

I'm digging this guy Humberto Ramos they got for Wolverine (story on him HERE). His stuff there looks like the best from Cruz, Jeff Matsuda or Joe Mad.


EDITED for stupidity...
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Postby Colin on Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:43 pm

Humberto Ramos. He's excellent. Every new thing he draws is better than the last thing he did. He started up Cliffhanger! with Joe Mad and J. Scott Campbell with his book 'Crimson'. It was the only one that was on time.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:47 pm

Doh! Read that one wrong.
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Postby Coldfire24 on Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:16 pm

I think i'm looking forward to this civil war. I just got into comics and read the lead up to house of M and and the house. The only problem is i'm not too familiar with the Avengers anymore. Sure I mean yeah I know alot about the x-men and spider man just not about them. So I might still be confused on a lot of stuff.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:18 pm

Coldfire24 wrote:So I might still be confused on a lot of stuff.

But that's probably more 'cause you're drunk than anything else.
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Postby Coldfire24 on Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:46 pm

I'm going to cry.


Edit: Yeah well Buffy was just an OK tv show.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:48 pm

Coldfire24 wrote:I'm going to cry.

Because you're drunk, right?
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Postby bc1970 on Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:30 pm

THE ILLUMINATI PREVIEW
nice pages and spoilers here

So instead of The JLA screwing over Batman...

The Illuminati, and apparently Reed in particular, screws over The Hulk.

Even though Richards was careless enough to let Wolverine steal all his top secret dangerous stuff,

Even though Banner's cousin was a FF member and ran wild herself a time or two,

Even though other Illuminati members have had their off moments,

Hulk gets sent away.

I'm sure everyone's dirty laundry is about to be unloaded, and it might smell suspiciously similar to Identity Crisis.
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Postby Adam Balm on Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:33 pm

I'm indifferent to it all, but I honestly might pick this up just for Alex Maleev.

Wow.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:39 pm

I really like the idea of them sending the Hulk away. In a really twisted sort of way, it makes a lot of sense.
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Postby Iconoclastica on Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:43 pm

<spoilerish>
So I see Daredevil on that cover image . . . obviously on the side of (he's not so much a mutant, so . . .) superheroes who don't want to be comic-book-surrogate-Bush's bitches.

Does this mean that they're not making this continuous with the current Daredevil storyline (I mean, I guess it's possible he'll be out of jail and no longer out of the vigilante closet by then)?

And if that's so . . . if it's not in league with what's going on in the current marvel-verse, does that mean that spidey's gonna still be Iron Man's little spoon at this point?

::grumble grumble::
</spoilerish>
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Postby bc1970 on Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:59 pm

I'm paraphrasing a Newsarama poster when I say, if you're gonna blast Hulk off into space, don't tell him you're doing it.

Man, you gotta have Balls of Odin to TELL the Hulk, as he's flying away...
"Sorry dude but, you're big and creepy and we don't like you anymore."

I think(hope) this will have as much to do with events like Fury/Cap/Bucky/Wolverine hijinks as it will with political rhetoric.

But if it is about the collateral damage caused by the Supers, everybody, especially one ever-lovin' blue eyed Thing, could be held accountable. I guess nobody has seen Hulk save the world from evil.
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Postby Colin on Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:01 pm

Being that Reed Richards and all the other eggheads were friends of Banner, they probably felt they owed it to him, to give him some closure when he's on his desolate planet...

...then of course some weird ass wormhole sucked his shuttle up and he landed on the set of Princess of Mars...
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Postby Leckomaniac on Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:56 am

So i just read Amazing Spider-Man #529 and I must say that it wasn't half bad. But I hate this new costume, I mean Spider-Man was cool because he wasn't invulnerable, and now he is bulletproof and can fly? That is kind of lame. I will tolerate the suit for a while but we all know it is going to be short lived. Regardless I have high hopes for this Civil War. I guess we'll just wait and see.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:47 pm

HERE is the cover for Civil War #2 via Newsarama:

I like it. Does Spidey change his suit during the war?

And notice the prominent placement of the Young Avengers. Hmm...
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Postby The Garbage Man on Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:14 pm

I'm betting Spidey does switch sides, especially after Joey Q's recent comment that he will wear both costumes and which suit he's wearing will be significant. My guess is he starts on Stark's side due to his obligations to Tony, but switches later on because of his conscience.

I'm intrigued and surprised at the Young Avengers, of all people, being on that cover. Frankly, no matter what happens in Civil War, the whole effort will be worth it to me to see two of my favorite teams (Runaways and YA) meet up.

Thanks for the pic, MW.
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Postby Shane on Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:26 am

I just read the first part of Road to Civil War, and it was alright. I think the concept is okay, but I'm opposed to crossover events. It's too much for me. I think it would have worked better as a stand alone mini series, not affecting or crossing into other titles I would bwe more inclined to buy it instead of reading friends copies. I bought Identity crisis, but nothing after that.

I think they do have some cool concept on how to really make some cool changes to the marvel universe with it though.
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Postby Theta on Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:04 am

DennisMM wrote:If he wasn't circumcised then, he's circumcised now. Long have I pondered what poor Ben suffered when the cosmic rays hit his privates. No answers yet.


Jason Lee wrote: The Thing! Is his dork made of orange rock?
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:37 pm

HERE is Marvel's Civil War "trailer", gives you an idea of the event that sparks all the hullabaloo.

Here is Turner's variant cover for Civil War #2. Another fabulous job. I'm loving the over-exposed lighting.

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Postby Shane on Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:02 am

The concept could work good in the marvel universe. and the best part is there is not going to be a defined "Bad Side" I like to think they will split the heroes on an issue like this, it makes the |Marvel universe mirror our world today much more. I think there are endless possibilities with this, but I fear they won't do all they could have done, or as well as it could be. The first part of road to civil war seemed forced, and JMS is a good writer, I just didn't feel he did it anywhere near as well as his past stuff. I think it should have been handled only in one book by only one writer who had a passion for the project.
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Postby Theta on Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:43 pm

So I read the introductory jibberjabber whatever, the New Avengers book called "Illuminati" which doesn't even have the New Avengers. Typical Bendis, good dialogue, zero actual payoff, but something I really have to ask:

Do we really need this crossover? Is it really going to contribute to anything other than fan annoyance?

I ask this because all the issues that this might possibly raise, philosophical or otherwise, have already been discussed in "Watchmen." Furthermore they've been discussed intelligently, succinctly, and clearly, from multiple viewpoints. As far as I can tell, Alan Moore got the first word, the last word, and all of 'em in between.


By the way, here's what happens to the Spidey suit: Spidey starts out on Iron Man's side, turns traitor, discovers there's a tracking device in the new uniform, and dumps it, hence the old suit is back. If it's not Tony, it's the other side, either way there's a tracking device in the damn thing.

I haven't read the script or anything, I just don't trust this series to deliver much.
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Postby Adam Balm on Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:01 am

Man, Theta. You spend a lot of your time wondering if you need a comic don't you?
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Postby Theta on Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:43 am

Adam Balm wrote:Man, Theta. You spend a lot of your time wondering if you need a comic don't you?


Hey, my time and money are valuable commodities.

Okay, just the money is valuable, and that's because it's money. But at the same time, if we're going to have a ULTAMEGACROSSOVER THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!!! I'd at least like it to try and cover some form of new ground. Otherwise it really feels like a cash-in, especially since Marvel doesn't use these to clean house like DC does (as annoying as I find Infinite Crisis, at least DC is trying new ideas. Why the fuck is Marvel doing ANOTHER new Spider-Man suit?! Because it went over so well the last five times.)
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Postby Colin on Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:25 am

I thought you'd have figured out by now that ULTAMEGACROSSOVERS are only done for the money. So it doesn't matter if it covers new ground or not, so long as you buy it. Because money is a valuable commodity.
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Postby Theta on Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:13 am

Colin wrote:I thought you'd have figured out by now that ULTAMEGACROSSOVERS are only done for the money.


Yes, but the idea behind capitalism is that when one spends one's money, one gets something of worth for it. Especially when said ULTRAMEGACROSSOVER is from a company that calls themselves "The House of Ideas."
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Postby reneritchie on Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:02 am

A friend and I were just discussing the Illuminati Special, and we realized how it was just utterly failing to come together for us.

As the members of the Illuminati have been shown elsewhere, this part should be spoiler free for anyone familiar with Bendis' run on New Avengers:

Reed Richards (identity is already known), Blackbolt (inhuman, not subject to human law, and wears a mask for no apparent reason), Dr. Strange (identity is already known), Namor (not subject to surface law and who's identity is already known) don't seen like the major stake-holders in a superhero registration act? Alpha Flight already works for their government, and other heroes around the world already have ties to their own governments, so the stakes don't come off as high from the get go.

What also comes off as a bit silly (may be spoilerish for those who haven't read Bendis' Daredevil), is that Bendis doesn't reference Daredevil (at least not yet) when he's exactly an example of what this series could tie into (a hero who is outed and suffering because of it) to really raise the stakes (look what happened to DD...)

And the Illiminati would come off stronger if they actually spent some time showing what the group had accomplished/manipulated in the past to lend them some cred, before they go into Civil War where everything, from the looks of it, falls apart...
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Postby Theta on Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:59 am

So I read the Spider-Man leadup...

...And I hate to be an asshole fanboy...

...But I really have to say this; doesn't anybody at Marvel keep up with their own f**king continuity anymore?! That whole bit where Spidey is speaking at a congressional hearing, and they say he has to swear on a Bible, take his mask off and sit down...that was dealt with. That was dealt with two years ago, in freakin' "SHE-HULK!" You bust out the Avengers scanner, which is linked to a federal database and confirms a super-hero's identity without divulging their real name or face.

This just drives me insane. I mean, there's an obvious explanation; the Avengers database was destroyed when Bendis decided to make Scarlet Witch evil for no good or explicable reason. If Marvel were still handing out No-Prizes, I'd send that in. But it would be nice if that goddamn base had been covered before we swing into "Civil War!"
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Postby Leckomaniac on Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:19 pm

Advanced review of Civil War #1!

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=7198

It isn't overly positive or overly negative, he just says it is adequate. At $3.99 I doubt I will be buying this. Perhaps I will flip through it at the comic book store, but I don't want to waste my money. I got burned by the House of M crap, not again.
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Postby Adam Balm on Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:22 pm

Newsarama also has an advance review up:

[SPOILERS!]

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68937
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Postby Leckomaniac on Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:31 pm

Thanks Adam.

I was looking for other sites with advanced reviews, I didn't think to look there.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Sat May 06, 2006 7:39 pm

So, I just read Civil War #1 and I'm quite a fan. Nice, clean, crisp writing coupled with just beautiful art from Steve McNiven. Loved the story, love where it's heading. It really does feel epic, like the landscape is about to change.

Joe Q discusses both sides of the "issue" at hand in his Joe Fridays article from this week (HERE), and I think it's helped me realize whose side I'm on.

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That's right. I'm for registration.

Much as I believe in the virtue of standing up and doing the right thing, helping out without being asked, these are beings of IMMENSE power striding around next to normal schmos like you and I. It's fun to read/watch them go at it with excessive amounts of collateral damage, but if it's happening in the town I live in--well, I want to know for damn sure that my heroes know what they're doing.

I don't think those born with abilities should be forced into doing this line of work, nor would I wish them persecuted for registering (i.e. the Mutant Registration Act), but I think it's reasonable enough to require super-beings--or at least the ones looking to act in the public interest--to register their abilities with the government and learn how to use them properly.

I understand the other side, but this is the one I'm on.
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Postby Adam Balm on Sat May 06, 2006 10:00 pm

Alright, I just finished issue #1.

I love these little thought experiments, so I sat and thought about this one for a long time. (Probably longer than I should have.) I don’t know if I’ve come to a dead set conclusion, but here are my thoughts:

All the goals of this legislation sound good, so all you need to ask are 1) are these goals attainable? and 2) will the law, as it is written, have this effect?

The first goal of the registration bill is to end the ‘wild west’ status quo as someone put it. But the first thing that comes to my mind is that in the wild west you had a situation exactly like what they are calling for. You had paid lawmen who were supposedly accountable, but in the end we’re often just as corrupt and brutal as the culture that produced them. Slapping a badge on someone and putting a government seal on their paycheck, didn’t make the west less bloody or violent.

So what effects would I see this having?

Well, the first obvious effect was mentioned by Spider-Man. Namely, it's now open season on every newly-unmasked superhero, his family, and everyone he ever knew. Maybe a glimpse of what would be to come is the revenge killings you see on former Baath party members in Iraq. And then you have tit-for-tat revenge attacks, as we've seen in the southern Shiite provinces. Then you have escalation. Because as you see in past war torn regions like Darfur or Rwanda, for every son killed, you have an angry father, for every dead wife, you have a vengeful husband. They all demand blood for their loss. And now, with this bill, you introduce a destabilizing element into a world populated by superhumans, where revenge doesn't come in the form of a hit squad in the middle of the night. It comes in the form of someone who can take out city blocks. Not the best idea...

Second, so previously you had superhumans who did what they did, knowing they would neither get credit nor glory for their actions. It was a thankless job that no one asked for. But what would happen when you take that away? Are celebrities any better behaved because we know their real names? Are congressmen, who are our public servants? A bad sign of what might follow, could ironically might be the event that spawned this crisis: the New Warriors and their desperate stunt to try and get themselves some publicity and popularity. Now take that, and multiply that by a few thousand. Remember, in the old west, everyone was trying to make a name for themselves.

Third, as Cap alluded to, basically the government now has the control over who can use his powers and who can't. Suddenly the US government pulls the strings for every superhuman residing in the US. Rather than ensure that superhumans will work for the public good, all you have is a situation that will ensure that they work for the good of their government, who they now answer to. Holding them accountable is a nice idea, but when has having a public face ever meant someone was accountable? So where is the check, where is the balance here? Supervillains are now who Bush says they are.

What is meant by ‘training’ isn’t clear, and I think it could be a two-edged sword. You can train someone to be more careful, or you can train someone to be more lethal. What you can’t train someone to do is be more responsible, or more compassionate or selfless, or less corruptible when given new authority.

Whenever someone proposes a change, the burden of proof is on them to show that they offer a better alternative. I’m not seeing it here. I see different problems introduced, not solutions to existing ones.

So, until I’m convinced…

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Postby MasterWhedon on Sat May 06, 2006 10:57 pm

Nicely done, sir...

Adam Balm wrote:Image

...but this means we are at war.
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Postby Adam Balm on Sat May 06, 2006 11:15 pm

Brother against brother!

:P


But I gotta hand it to Millar on this one, I'm still not 100%. Yes I know that this has been done (JSA, Watchmen, Incredibles, and of course the Mutant Registration Act in X-Men.) but this was the first time I saw the issue presented in a way that gave equal voice to both sides of the issue. The MRA was always shown as evil and one step away from concentration camps. Here for the first time, it's presented as a complex issue that doesn't insult your intelligence. Millar is doing one thing here he's not known for: letting people make up their own minds.

This could pan out in any number of ways. So what's your prediction, Whedo? Millar has remarked that he's surprised at the faith they've put in him, considering the changes they're going to make. Now that could just be hype, but I don't think so. I wouldn't be surprised if the law is let stand, at least in a compromised form. Which means that all superheroes are regulated and licensed. They'll probably have to register their real identity with the government, but that identity will be kept secret. (As well as the Washington can be trusted to keep a secret *cough* Valerie Plame *cough*)
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Sat May 06, 2006 11:30 pm

I knew we'd come to blows eventually, MW...

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Tony/Iron Man is my favorite character in the Marvel Universe, but I've got to disagree with him here. I can understand the point of registration. I don't think the purpose here is necessarily nefarious underneath (unlike the Mutant Registration Act), but Adam's point about the government determining who is a super hero and who is a super villian is well taken. As is the point about the government keeping this info under wraps. There are many, many superpowered villians (and terrorist groups and other nations) who would give anything for this type of information. The U.S. government is supposed to stop all of them from obtaining it one way or another...really? This type of information is too dangerous to be compiled. It will get out, eventually, with dire consequences for our favorite heroes.

I can certainly understand the rationale of registration. I may even be swayed away from this line of thinking as the "Civil War" rages on. But at this time I think the potential disaster outweighs the potential good.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Sun May 07, 2006 12:31 am

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THE NORTH!!!
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Postby Ribbons on Sun May 07, 2006 12:49 am

I think there should be a third poll option for Don't Know. That way it'll allow people who feel like voting but haven't read the issue to make an accurate choice and people who are ambivalent about the (other kind of) issue a choice that doesn't force them to fall back on certain biases, like whether or not Captain America or Iron Man is their favorite character. It'll probably make the poll a little more reliable. Just throwin' that out there, feel free to shoot it down or ignore it completely.

I haven't read this yet, but I plan on it within the next couple of weeks.
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Postby Adam Balm on Sun May 07, 2006 12:54 am

Done.
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Postby buster00 on Sun May 07, 2006 12:56 am

Dammit...


I wasn't even gonna start reading this series, but now I just might. The preview art alone almost hooked me, but I really didn't want to get invested in another Event Series. You guys are starting to teeter me over the brink...

Someone please answer me this: if I just get the main Civil War title, will I be able to follow the story well enough without buying every other damn title in the Marvel Universe?

(For the record, I'd side with Cap without even having read one issue..."individual freedoms" and "mistrust of The Man" and whatnot...but I didn't vote because I'd like to see both sides of the story.)
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Postby BuckyO'harre on Sun May 07, 2006 1:13 am

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Postby DennisMM on Sun May 07, 2006 1:26 am

NPR's May 2 "Talk of the Nation" had a piece on Civil War. No Millar for some reason.

America's comic books rarely address the dubious legal and moral authority of their biggest stars. But a new series hitting comic book stores Wednesday pits hero against hero.

A group led by Iron Man embraces the government's demand that they register as living weapons of mass destruction and reveal their secret identities. On the opposing side, Captain America and his allies refuse. The issues include civil liberties and national security, public safety and private freedom.

Joe Quesada, Marvel Comics' editor in chief, and comic book writer Paul Jenkins discuss civil liberties and national security in the Marvel Universe.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Sun May 07, 2006 3:33 pm

Adam Balm wrote:Brother against brother!

:P


But I gotta hand it to Millar on this one, I'm still not 100%. Yes I know that this has been done (JSA, Watchmen, Incredibles, and of course the Mutant Registration Act in X-Men.) but this was the first time I saw the issue presented in a way that gave equal voice to both sides of the issue. The MRA was always shown as evil and one step away from concentration camps. Here for the first time, it's presented as a complex issue that doesn't insult your intelligence. Millar is doing one thing here he's not known for: letting people make up their own minds.

This could pan out in any number of ways. So what's your prediction, Whedo? Millar has remarked that he's surprised at the faith they've put in him, considering the changes they're going to make. Now that could just be hype, but I don't think so. I wouldn't be surprised if the law is let stand, at least in a compromised form. Which means that all superheroes are regulated and licensed. They'll probably have to register their real identity with the government, but that identity will be kept secret. (As well as the Washington can be trusted to keep a secret *cough* Valerie Plame *cough*)

I am also not 100% just yet, as I believe you make a very, very convincing argument against registration. It is a complex issue, presented in a refreshing manner that makes us finally think about the day-to-day, dirty outcome.

The secret identiy issue is probably my biggest sticking point. Enough people have found out Spider-Man's identity over the years to take MJ or Aunt May captive, and I could very easily see that happening again. The "easiest" solution would be to put them in some sort of secured government housing, like military families.

Now, I really don't think it's fair to have our heroes be forced to hide their friends and families when protecting the world, but then again that's what most of them do already. At least this way they're making a living off their superheroics instead of failing at some other job their mind is never on, and they can house their families in a nice place without all the lying over where they go all the time.

I would HOPE that this personal information would be kept secret, so Spider-Man could still be Spider-Man without revealing to the world he's Peter Parker, but yes, leaks do happen. If they happen... I got nothin'. Fire the guy who leaked it.

As for the heroes being the United States' own personal action figures--well, in an ideal world they'd be licensed to the United Nations instead of the United States. They should be global heroes, even though much of their activites take place in this country.

Anyway, all that aside, I do believe the law is going to be passed, as Bendis has said recently that there is one, clear winner to the war, and that the New Avengers will be affected more than any other team out there. The Cap/Tony rift will become pretty permanent, as we will soon see the launch of a second Avengers title (rumored for a while to be connected to Alpha Flight). The notion is that Cap flees to Canada to start a second team of Avengers who will work outside US jurisdiction.

Also, looking at this purely from the standpoint of a storyteller, I can think of noting more exciting than to establish this law and let this rift settle into the Marvel U. Let it be years and years before it's (inevitably) overturned, but let's tell some really interesting stories about heroes registering and dealing with potential consequences between now and then. That gets me really excited.

Oh, and was I the only one who found the Johnny Storm beating to be exceptionally shocking?
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Postby Adam Balm on Sun May 07, 2006 6:44 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
Anyway, all that aside, I do believe the law is going to be passed, as Bendis has said recently that there is one, clear winner to the war, and that the New Avengers will be affected more than any other team out there. The Cap/Tony rift will become pretty permanent, as we will soon see the launch of a second Avengers title (rumored for a while to be connected to Alpha Flight). The notion is that Cap flees to Canada to start a second team of Avengers who will work outside US jurisdiction.


Yeah, that sounds about right to me, but I dunno about the Canada part. I mean, we've seen covers with Cap posed with Alpha Flight, but then you have Millar's interviews where he's all 'Absolutely not, Cap is not fleeing to Canada. Cap doesn't tuck tail and run. That's totally out of character.'

So who knows? Could be Millar blowing smoke, doing some misdirection...

I forget, did Quesada confirm or deny a new West Coast Avengers series? Maybe that's the new team Cap starts.
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Postby TheBaxter on Sun May 07, 2006 7:42 pm

hmmm think i gotta go with the union on this one. not a fan of slavery.

wait... comic books? i don't read comic books.
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Postby Theta on Sun May 07, 2006 9:10 pm

I won't go into the argument for superhero registration (although the fact that they can become pawns of the government is a compelling one; the main problem would be the government wouldn't have to worry about superheroes investigating their wrongdoing.)

I will say, having read the comic...eh. Not nearly as shitty as "House of M" (which sucked worse than Heroes Reborn), but it was kinda like "They killed the New Warriors for this?"
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Postby Adam Balm on Sun May 07, 2006 9:42 pm

They didn't kill all the New Warriors, did they?

It looked like just Namorita and maybe Speedball..
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Postby Adam Balm on Sun May 07, 2006 9:51 pm

Jeez. If I cared about the New Warriors at all, I'd probably be pissed.
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Postby Theta on Sun May 07, 2006 9:58 pm

Adam Balm wrote:They didn't kill all the New Warriors, did they?

It looked like just Namorita and maybe Speedball..


From what I understand, the New Warriors are dead, with Speedball the sole survivor. The events of Issue #1 are blamed on Speedball.

EDIT: Yeee-aah. I seem to be full of shit. It looks like Joe Quesada's long standing hatred of the character finally got the better of him and Speedball is cacked. So I'm wondering who they're going to pin it on.
Last edited by Theta on Sun May 07, 2006 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Sun May 07, 2006 11:50 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:I am also not 100% just yet, as I believe you make a very, very convincing argument against registration. It is a complex issue, presented in a refreshing manner that makes us finally think about the day-to-day, dirty outcome.

The secret identiy issue is probably my biggest sticking point. Enough people have found out Spider-Man's identity over the years to take MJ or Aunt May captive, and I could very easily see that happening again. The "easiest" solution would be to put them in some sort of secured government housing, like military families.

Now, I really don't think it's fair to have our heroes be forced to hide their friends and families when protecting the world, but then again that's what most of them do already. At least this way they're making a living off their superheroics instead of failing at some other job their mind is never on, and they can house their families in a nice place without all the lying over where they go all the time.

I would HOPE that this personal information would be kept secret, so Spider-Man could still be Spider-Man without revealing to the world he's Peter Parker, but yes, leaks do happen. If they happen... I got nothin'. Fire the guy who leaked it.

As for the heroes being the United States' own personal action figures--well, in an ideal world they'd be licensed to the United Nations instead of the United States. They should be global heroes, even though much of their activites take place in this country.

Anyway, all that aside, I do believe the law is going to be passed, as Bendis has said recently that there is one, clear winner to the war, and that the New Avengers will be affected more than any other team out there. The Cap/Tony rift will become pretty permanent, as we will soon see the launch of a second Avengers title (rumored for a while to be connected to Alpha Flight). The notion is that Cap flees to Canada to start a second team of Avengers who will work outside US jurisdiction.

Also, looking at this purely from the standpoint of a storyteller, I can think of noting more exciting than to establish this law and let this rift settle into the Marvel U. Let it be years and years before it's (inevitably) overturned, but let's tell some really interesting stories about heroes registering and dealing with potential consequences between now and then. That gets me really excited.

Oh, and was I the only one who found the Johnny Storm beating to be exceptionally shocking?


I just read Civil War #1 and I tend to agree with most of what you said MasterWhedon. Especially the Johnny Storm beating. It was harsh and very moving. I am also hoping that they let the registration pass and that it stands for a few years. There are some great stories to be told there. I mean the leaking of information by government officials to villains...stuff like that is both relevant to today and intriguing from a storytelling persepctive.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon May 08, 2006 3:54 pm

Adam Balm wrote:Yeah, that sounds about right to me, but I dunno about the Canada part. I mean, we've seen covers with Cap posed with Alpha Flight, but then you have Millar's interviews where he's all 'Absolutely not, Cap is not fleeing to Canada. Cap doesn't tuck tail and run. That's totally out of character.'

So who knows? Could be Millar blowing smoke, doing some misdirection...

I forget, did Quesada confirm or deny a new West Coast Avengers series? Maybe that's the new team Cap starts.

I only mentioned Canada because of the Alpha Flight connection, and it'd make sense for Cap to operate outside the registration laws.

That said, the idea of Cap leading a second, rogue group of Avengers within the States is even more compelling.

Leckomaniac wrote:I just read Civil War #1 and I tend to agree with most of what you said MasterWhedon. Especially the Johnny Storm beating. It was harsh and very moving. I am also hoping that they let the registration pass and that it stands for a few years. There are some great stories to be told there. I mean the leaking of information by government officials to villains...stuff like that is both relevant to today and intriguing from a storytelling persepctive.

Vote for Iron Man. It's what the true patriots do. (Oh, snap!)
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