Official Superman Returns Review Thread (SPOILERS)

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

With 10 being the best and 1 being the worst, how would you rate Superman Returns?

10
20
16%
9
18
15%
8
35
28%
7
19
15%
6
12
10%
5
4
3%
4
3
2%
3
0
No votes
2
1
1%
1
5
4%
I will not be seeing this
6
5%
 
Total votes : 123

Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:58 pm

Aaaaaaaaaaanyway, back to the movie at hand...

Who else has reviews? I want more feedback!!
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Postby ONeillSG1 on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:10 pm

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Postby unikrunk on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:16 pm

I still can not come off of my 'Superman-High' enough to write a review, but I will say this:

This is what would have happened if GL had handed the SW franchise over to someone else, and stuck to producing - this is a perfect Superman movie, and moves the good elements of the pre-existing franchise forward.

/that is all, for now
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:29 pm

ONeillSG1 wrote:http://cracked.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=627

You'll dig this Whedon, especially No. 1.

lol

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

ZZZZZACK ATTACK!!
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:32 pm

Wow. I think I might be the only person in the Zone who has no interest
in this movie whatsoever.

Having not seen the movie, I can't say whether I thought it was good or
bad, but I'm wondering if digging Superman is a pre-requisite? Point blank:
I can't stand Superman, I think he is, hands down, the lamest superhero of
all times. I don't see what is compelling about an invincible goody two
shoes Christ figure from outer space; hes just too clean and too miquetoast
for me. With that in mind, would this be a story that would convert me? Or
is it more about indulging in Donner nostalgia?

Keeping in mind that I love the fact that so many of you are happy with it; I
just wonder what people who think Superman is lame would think of the
movie; does it give him more depth? Or is he still invincible, infallible, just-
nigh omnipotent GODMAN?
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:39 pm

You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P
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Postby unikrunk on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:40 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Wow. I think I might be the only person in the Zone who has no interest
in this movie whatsoever.

Having not seen the movie, I can't say whether I thought it was good or
bad, but I'm wondering if digging Superman is a pre-requisite? Point blank:
I can't stand Superman, I think he is, hands down, the lamest superhero of
all times. I don't see what is compelling about an invincible goody two
shoes Christ figure from outer space; hes just too clean and too miquetoast
for me. With that in mind, would this be a story that would convert me? Or
is it more about indulging in Donner nostalgia?

Keeping in mind that I love the fact that so many of you are happy with it; I
just wonder what people who think Superman is lame would think of the
movie; does it give him more depth? Or is he still invincible, infallible, just-
nigh omnipotent GODMAN?


It will not convert you; trust me. You have to have enjoyed at least some aspect of the character or previous movies to take anything positive away from the film.

Supes is not my fave, but I like the concept of a messiah in a cape, and the altruistic purity of it.

Anyway, my girl has the same feelings as you regarding Superman, and pretty much did not care about the movie; ambivalence, with a look of constipation is how I would sum up her experience.

Adversely, she loved Batman Begins.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:41 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P


Huh? Since when am I an anti-semite?
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Postby unikrunk on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:42 pm

since now, Nazi-Man!

/joking, joking
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:43 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P


Huh? Since when am I an anti-semite?

I doubt you are. Tis a joke.

I always thought of Superman as a Moses based Jewish composite mocking Hitler's Ubermensch then a Jesus/messiah knock off.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:45 pm

unikrunk wrote:It will not convert you; trust me. You have to have enjoyed at least some aspect of the character or previous movies to take anything positive away from the film.

Supes is not my fave, but I like the concept of a messiah in a cape, and the altruistic purity of it.

Anyway, my girl has the same feelings as you regarding Superman, and pretty much did not care about the movie; ambivalence, with a look of constipation is how I would sum up her experience.

Adversely, she loved Batman Begins.


Okay then, I'm not even going to bother with this one, then. I'll wait for
DVD or cable.

(And, oh yeah, I loved BATMAN BEGINS too; we're probably in the same
camp.)
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Postby unikrunk on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:45 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P


Huh? Since when am I an anti-semite?

I doubt you are. Tis a joke.

I always thought of Superman as a Moses based Jewish composite mocking Hitler's Ubermensch then a Jesus/messiah knock off.


Kal-El is Hebraic for perfect god, so....take from that what you will.
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Postby Brocktune on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:46 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:I always thought of Superman as a Moses based Jewish composite mocking Hitler's Ubermensch then a Jesus/messiah knock off.


i think jerry siegel and joe shuster would probably agree with you.
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Postby TheBaxter on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:46 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Wow. I think I might be the only person in the Zone who has no interest
in this movie whatsoever.

Having not seen the movie, I can't say whether I thought it was good or
bad, but I'm wondering if digging Superman is a pre-requisite? Point blank:
I can't stand Superman, I think he is, hands down, the lamest superhero of
all times. I don't see what is compelling about an invincible goody two
shoes Christ figure from outer space; hes just too clean and too miquetoast
for me. With that in mind, would this be a story that would convert me? Or
is it more about indulging in Donner nostalgia?

Keeping in mind that I love the fact that so many of you are happy with it; I
just wonder what people who think Superman is lame would think of the
movie; does it give him more depth? Or is he still invincible, infallible, just-
nigh omnipotent GODMAN?


there are at least two of us. though my interest has gone up slightly from the positive word of mouth. i really like the first 2 superman movies, though i don't worship them or anything. i really liked the way christopher reeve handled the part(s). on paper though, superman seems like a lame character to me, and a bit silly.

nevertheless, my enjoyment of the donner films and the positive word of mouth has increased my interest enough that i'll probably move this up to the top of my netflix queue when it comes out on dvd, instead of letting it languish down in the 50s or 60s.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:48 pm

unikrunk wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P


Huh? Since when am I an anti-semite?

I doubt you are. Tis a joke.

I always thought of Superman as a Moses based Jewish composite mocking Hitler's Ubermensch then a Jesus/messiah knock off.


Kal-El is Hebraic for perfect god, so....take from that what you will.


Of course his being sent to Earth in a ship is a just like Moses being sent down the Nile (plus the whole being raised as something he is not, going into the wilderness and learning about his past etc) rather than Jesus' family taking him and escaping an audit.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:50 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P


Huh? Since when am I an anti-semite?

I doubt you are. Tis a joke.

I always thought of Superman as a Moses based Jewish composite mocking Hitler's Ubermensch then a Jesus/messiah knock off.


Yeah, I had read somewhere once that SUPERMAN, originally, back in the
day-day, was sort of a symbol for Jewish immigrants coming to the US and
assimilating / making their way. I thinks that was the theme was behind
the Kavalier and Klay novel, correct?

I think that origin has changed considerably now, though. Now he seems
to be more of a symbol of white-bread christian middle america; Captain
Jesusman.

Lame.
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Postby TheBaxter on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:55 pm

with all the jesus references i've heard people make, this movie is beginning to sound like The Chronic-(WHAT!?!)-cles of Superman
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Postby unikrunk on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:58 pm

This movie is a perfect fit for unikrunk. In response to the above, he is the Jewish Jeebus, get it? But he gets to wear some serious flash gear, and perform miracles every five minutes, unlike the x-tian Jeebus, who performed karaoke more than anything.
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Postby raasnio on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:59 pm

unikrunk wrote:It will not convert you; trust me. You have to have enjoyed at least some aspect of the character or previous movies to take anything positive away from the film.

Supes is not my fave, but I like the concept of a messiah in a cape, and the altruistic purity of it.

Anyway, my girl has the same feelings as you regarding Superman, and pretty much did not care about the movie; ambivalence, with a look of constipation is how I would sum up her experience.

Adversely, she loved Batman Begins.


See, I loved Batman Begins. The only thing I liked about the previous Superman films was Reeve. Also, if this movie looks at Superman like a Jesus figure then I really might be out of luck.

It wasn't too long ago that I would have said 'who cares' to either a Superman or a Batman movie. With Nolan at the helm for Batman Begins (not to mention the cast) I decided to go see it. With Singer at the helm for SR I just can't get excited for it. Something tells me I should probably wait for the DVD and rent it. As it is, I own Superman - The Movie and it won't be long before I sell it. I just had to pick it up to see how it fared these days.
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Postby Roybertito on Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:08 pm

Adam Balm wrote:I think Robertito was half-joking.


Actually, all-joking. I thought the entire Snakes on a Plane Kenan Thompson reference would spell that out.

Sorry.

Great movie, though.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Captain
Jesusman.


CAPTAIN JESUSMAN AND THE RELIGIPALS!
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:34 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P


Huh? Since when am I an anti-semite?

I doubt you are. Tis a joke.

I always thought of Superman as a Moses based Jewish composite mocking Hitler's Ubermensch then a Jesus/messiah knock off.


Yeah, I had read somewhere once that SUPERMAN, originally, back in the
day-day, was sort of a symbol for Jewish immigrants coming to the US and
assimilating / making their way. I thinks that was the theme was behind
the Kavalier and Klay novel, correct?

I think that origin has changed considerably now, though. Now he seems
to be more of a symbol of white-bread christian middle america; Captain
Jesusman.

Lame.

I'm still not seeing it. The Jesus parallel doesn't work for me outside of one line Puzo wrote for Brando in the original film that is in the trailer for this one and Jesus (supposedly) flying once. I missed where Jesus had heat vision and super hearing and a secret identity etc.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:51 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:I missed where Jesus had heat vision and super hearing and a secret identity etc.

That's because you never read the Book of Zod.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:55 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P


Huh? Since when am I an anti-semite?

I doubt you are. Tis a joke.

I always thought of Superman as a Moses based Jewish composite mocking Hitler's Ubermensch then a Jesus/messiah knock off.


Yeah, I had read somewhere once that SUPERMAN, originally, back in the
day-day, was sort of a symbol for Jewish immigrants coming to the US and
assimilating / making their way. I thinks that was the theme was behind
the Kavalier and Klay novel, correct?

I think that origin has changed considerably now, though. Now he seems
to be more of a symbol of white-bread christian middle america; Captain
Jesusman.

Lame.

I'm still not seeing it. The Jesus parallel doesn't work for me outside of one line Puzo wrote for Brando in the original film that is in the trailer for this one and Jesus (supposedly) flying once. I missed where Jesus had heat vision and super hearing and a secret identity etc.


Did Moses have heat vision and super hearing? A secret ID?

Nope. At least not to my knowlege.

We're talking about a Messiah figure in a very broad way; and I'm
assuming Ubermensch makes some kind of martyr sacrifice in this?
Recognizing that there are many martyr figrues in myth, and not all
are Jesus, but he's definately got the most tenacious PR people; you
can't turn around these days without some Jesus stuff all up in yr
grill.

Read some of the reviews floating around; read tons of Jeebus
references, no Moses references...

He was a patriarch (Moses, that is), not a martyr.
Last edited by ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:57 pm

Roybertito wrote:
Adam Balm wrote:I think Robertito was half-joking.


Actually, all-joking. I thought the entire Snakes on a Plane Kenan Thompson reference would spell that out.

Sorry.

Great movie, though.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Captain
Jesusman.


CAPTAIN JESUSMAN AND THE RELIGIPALS!


Just wait till he blasts the baddies with his STIGAMATA BEAMS!!!
Or headbuts them with his CROWN OF THORNS OF STEEL!!!
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Postby clarks on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:12 pm

I won't see this mess. I've heard too many bad things about it and none of the clips or trailers convinced me it will be any good.
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Postby unikrunk on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:13 pm

clarks wrote:I won't see this mess. I've heard too many bad things about it and none of the clips or trailers convinced me it will be any good.


right on clarks, way to take a stand!

/dooooooooosh
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:16 pm

clarks wrote:I won't see this mess. I've heard too many bad things about it and none of the clips or trailers convinced me it will be any good.

Serious question: why name yourself "clarks"--a rather apparent Superman reference--if all you're going to do is rag on Superman?
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Postby Roybertito on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:23 pm

^Ding.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:27 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P


Huh? Since when am I an anti-semite?

I doubt you are. Tis a joke.

I always thought of Superman as a Moses based Jewish composite mocking Hitler's Ubermensch then a Jesus/messiah knock off.


Yeah, I had read somewhere once that SUPERMAN, originally, back in the
day-day, was sort of a symbol for Jewish immigrants coming to the US and
assimilating / making their way. I thinks that was the theme was behind
the Kavalier and Klay novel, correct?

I think that origin has changed considerably now, though. Now he seems
to be more of a symbol of white-bread christian middle america; Captain
Jesusman.

Lame.

I'm still not seeing it. The Jesus parallel doesn't work for me outside of one line Puzo wrote for Brando in the original film that is in the trailer for this one and Jesus (supposedly) flying once. I missed where Jesus had heat vision and super hearing and a secret identity etc.


Did Moses have heat vision and super hearing? A secret ID?

Nope. At least not to my knowlege.

We're talking about a Messiah figure in a very broad way; and I'm
assuming Ubermensch makes some kind of martyr sacrifice in this?
Recognizing that there are many martyr figrues in myth, and not all
are Jesus, but he's definately got the most tenacious PR people; you
can't turn around these days without some Jesus stuff all up in yr
grill.

Read some of the reviews floating around; read tons of Jeebus
references, no Moses references...

He was a patriarch (Moses, that is), not a martyr.

But he grew up exactly like Moses an orphan carried away in a basket/space ship to his new parents who raise him as their own until he goes into the wilderness and discovers his true past. He shares nothing in common with Jesus.
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Postby unikrunk on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:29 pm

Again:

He is the Jewish Jeebus -

The Messiah.

The Big Kahuna

Moses was a fucking prophet, not THE MESSIAH.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:33 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:You just don't like Superman because he is a Jew composite right ZZS. :P


Huh? Since when am I an anti-semite?

I doubt you are. Tis a joke.

I always thought of Superman as a Moses based Jewish composite mocking Hitler's Ubermensch then a Jesus/messiah knock off.


Yeah, I had read somewhere once that SUPERMAN, originally, back in the
day-day, was sort of a symbol for Jewish immigrants coming to the US and
assimilating / making their way. I thinks that was the theme was behind
the Kavalier and Klay novel, correct?

I think that origin has changed considerably now, though. Now he seems
to be more of a symbol of white-bread christian middle america; Captain
Jesusman.

Lame.

I'm still not seeing it. The Jesus parallel doesn't work for me outside of one line Puzo wrote for Brando in the original film that is in the trailer for this one and Jesus (supposedly) flying once. I missed where Jesus had heat vision and super hearing and a secret identity etc.


Did Moses have heat vision and super hearing? A secret ID?

Nope. At least not to my knowlege.

We're talking about a Messiah figure in a very broad way; and I'm
assuming Ubermensch makes some kind of martyr sacrifice in this?
Recognizing that there are many martyr figrues in myth, and not all
are Jesus, but he's definately got the most tenacious PR people; you
can't turn around these days without some Jesus stuff all up in yr
grill.

Read some of the reviews floating around; read tons of Jeebus
references, no Moses references...

He was a patriarch (Moses, that is), not a martyr.

But he grew up exactly like Moses an orphan carried away in a basket/space ship to his new parents who raise him as their own until he goes into the wilderness and discovers his true past. He shares nothing in common with Jesus.


Except for the whole "space god sends his only son to earth in order to
save them" thing. Then said Ubermensch makes some kind of martyr-
like sacrifice? I dunno, man, sounds like the Jeebus to me.

Not saying that the Moses-orphan thing isn't there, but the Jesus thing is
way more pronounced; its practically screaming it.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:34 pm

unikrunk wrote:Again:

He is the Jewish Jeebus -

The Messiah.

The Big Kahuna

Moses was a fucking prophet, not THE MESSIAH.

Based on what? Is the Jewish Messiah described as a flying lazer eye iron hided man? He was based on Moses by Jewish authors as a mockery of the German "Super" Man. He is the Super Jew not the Messiah.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Except for the whole "space god sends his only son to earth in order to
save them" thing. Then said Ubermensch makes some kind of martyr-
like sacrifice? I dunno, man, sounds like the Jeebus to me.

Not saying that the Moses-orphan thing isn't there, but the Jesus thing is
way more pronounced; its practically screaming it.

That's the line fucking Puzo wrote. That concept never appeared in the comics. Jor-El was never made out to be God and Kal as Jesus sent to sacrifice himself. He was invented by two Jews neither of whom made Superman as a Jesus wannabe.
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Postby Spartan on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:37 pm

He's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:37 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:Except for the whole "space god sends his only son to earth in order to
save them" thing. Then said Ubermensch makes some kind of martyr-
like sacrifice? I dunno, man, sounds like the Jeebus to me.

You're forgetting the part where he performs a buttload of miracles.

The parallel is there, but it's not THE parallel.
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Postby havocSchultz on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:39 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:
unikrunk wrote:Again:

He is the Jewish Jeebus -

The Messiah.

The Big Kahuna

Moses was a fucking prophet, not THE MESSIAH.

Based on what? Is the Jewish Messiah described as a flying lazer eye iron hided man? He was based on Moses by Jewish authors as a mockery of the German "Super" Man. He is the Super Jew not the Messiah.

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Except for the whole "space god sends his only son to earth in order to
save them" thing. Then said Ubermensch makes some kind of martyr-
like sacrifice? I dunno, man, sounds like the Jeebus to me.

Not saying that the Moses-orphan thing isn't there, but the Jesus thing is
way more pronounced; its practically screaming it.

That's the line fucking Puzo wrote. That concept never appeared in the comics. Jor-El was never made out to be God and Kal as Jesus sent to sacrifice himself. He was invented by two Jews neither of whom made Superman as a Jesus wannabe.


Actually - to the Jews, wasn't Jesus just considerd a prophet - and not the Messiah... I don't really wanna get involved in the whole religious debate - but I do remember a Jewish teacher telling me that once...

I don't know if this adds to or subtracts from the conversation at all...
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:40 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:
ZombieZoneSolutio ns wrote:Except for the whole "space god sends his only son to earth in order to
save them" thing. Then said Ubermensch makes some kind of martyr-
like sacrifice? I dunno, man, sounds like the Jeebus to me.

You're forgetting the part where he performs a buttload of miracles.

The parallel is there, but it's not THE parallel.


Oh sure, sure. I agree. He could be a metaphor for any number of
mystical magical martyrs and men; but I think the Jesus thing is definately
the most prominent (and I forgot the miracles!)...
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:41 pm

As far as I know the Jewish Messiah has yet to appear.

The story of Superman's origin parallels those of other cultural heroes and religious figures such as Moses, Gilgamesh, Samson, or Krishna, who were spirited away as infants from places where they were in danger. Kal was rocketed to Earth to save him from being vaporized on Krypton not to help elevate humanity.
If Supes was persecuted by the government and amassed a following of people and then was executed then yes he would be a Jesus knockoff. As such he is no more like Jesus than any of the aforementioned.
Last edited by Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:45 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:That's the line fucking Puzo wrote. That concept never appeared in the comics. Jor-El was never made out to be God and Kal as Jesus sent to sacrifice himself. He was invented by two Jews neither of whom made Superman as a Jesus wannabe.


We were talking about the movies right? I've never read a SUPERMAN
comic. Since neither of the creators had anything to do with the movies,
I reckon that the people who made them not-so-subtley altered Superman
from symbol of the empowered Jewish diaspora to Middle-American
protestant christian milquetoast.

Again, go ahead and read a buncha the reviews; pretty much every single
one drops the big "J" at least once.

Also, relax. Its not a fight.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:47 pm

I'm sorry but going off movie reviews would make me believe that V for Vendetta promoted terrorism against the US. Simply because a movie reviewer draws a parallel does not make it in the least bit logical. Who said this is a fight? It's electrons flowing over wires.
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Postby buster00 on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:50 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote: He was based on Moses by Jewish authors as a mockery of the German "Super" Man. He is the Super Jew not the Messiah.


I thought The Golem was Super Jew. Or maybe Mel Brooks.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:52 pm

buster00 wrote:I thought The Golem was Super Jew. Or maybe Mel Brooks.

A Mel Brooks Golem movie would be solid gold.

Did anyone ever see that New Johnny Quest show about 6 or 7 years ago? One episode focused on a Golem in a war torn Bosnia like country.
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Postby John-Locke on Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:01 pm

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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:08 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:I'm sorry but going off movie reviews would make me believe that V for Vendetta promoted terrorism against the US. Simply because a movie reviewer draws a parallel does not make it in the least bit logical. Who said this is a fight? It's electrons flowing over wires.


How is it not logical?

1) Space god sends his only begotten son to earth to save the human race.

2) Not only that, but he has superpowers and conjures al kinds of miracles.

3) In addiiton, he makes some kind of martyr like sacrifice to save people.

I dunno, man, call me crazy, but that sounds a whole helluva lot like
Jesus. And pretty much the vast majority seems to agree. So far all I'm
getting on the Moses parallel is that he is an orphan. Not saying that
parallel isn't there, but the Jesus (aka self-sacrificing martyr hero)
parallel is much much stronger in this case.

Knowing all that, you don't see any parallels to Jesus? I mean, I
get the whole contrarian thing, I really do, but not admitting that the
parallel is there is really kind of silly.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:44 pm

forgvie this review for repeating, rehashing, regurgitating what others have said. I just wanna get my own thoughts down before I read any of yours...

6.5

And that's a disappointed 6.5. Even having to read those giganto spoilers that Mori's (not a) script review had, I still thought that there might be a masterpiece of pop-cultural American mythmaking to be made from this. And for a while, it had that magnificence in it's grasp, only to fumble it away with a horrendous third act. More on that later tho', best to begin at the beginning, or rather in this case, the ending of Krypton in a red sun gone supernova, scattering the shattered remains of Krypton to the universe.
We go from that catasclysmic event to a stately mansion, where one recently paroled Lex Luthor cons a dying widow of her fortune. Now, I'm of a couple of minds about this particular version of Lex, none of them all that kind. There's a Luthor that certain comic writes have nailed, one that is just a shade either more or less intelligent than Supes, but whose massive ego cannot stand this alien dieties mere existence on his planet. That's MY Luthor, the one who is a great foil for our Superhero deity because he simply cannot abide this alien, this freak, this wonder, without an insane tinge of jealousy. This one cons old ladies kids out of their inheritance, this one SPEAKS of wanting Kryptonian tech to help better man, but who uses his stolen tech in a preposterous land creation scheme that an INTELLIGENT Luthor would never dare deign.
In short, a cartoonish supervillain, one whose very character undermines what could have, should have been a thoughtful meditation on a modern day God returning to his people (remember how the disciples all thought Jesus was gonna return in their lifetime?).

But enough of my Lex gripes, for the second Brandon "Baby, HE NAILED THIS ROLE" Routh comes back to earth in a fiery crash right near good 'ol Ma Kent, all my hopes and dreams for this flick looked like they may come to fruition. Routh allayed my fears right from the start, fuck, he out Reeved Reeve, no small task. I knew he would nail the look, contrary to some of those images he had the height and the body that I felt necessary. But it was in his baby blue eyes that the soul of Supes came to life for me. His subtle hurt as Kent when he found Lois had moved on, his steely gaze of determination when acting as Supes (couple of silly facial expressions later on in the flick notwithstanding, I guess wincing as the man of Steel is a qweird thing to pull off), the look of pure hurt and confusion in facing something so trivially human such as losing a love but above all the look of solitude, the look that conveyed the "Yup, I'm ALL ALONE" in this universe...wow.
And before I move on, it was in that, in the "Loneliness of the Superhero as God", that I was most impressed. Yeah, I don't care what anyone says, the God stuff is here. Twisted a bit (Jor-El as the Holy Spirit, Kal-El as the now Father, who know has a son), but still there. And I loved that. Admittedly, they took it WAY TO FUCKING FAR and made it WAY TOO FUCKING OBVIOUS (this horse was not only beaten, but killed and used as an implement to beat this notion into our heads), and c'mon, was there any drama in the ending? I swear, all we needed someone was to say "Doctor, he's been in this condition for three days"..."HUH? He's gone!". Or maybe blaring some Soundgarden "Jesus Christ Pose" at some point. I dunno, but I FUCKING GOT IT, OK!!!

To me, Supes is a God. Not THE God, neither Christian, Catholic, Judaic(although...), Hindu, Muslim. Not some minor deity, but our Zeus (minus all the psychodrama involved with that deity), our Ubermensch, our popcultural saviour, distinctly corn-fed middle American, but still, a GOD amongst us. HOW LONELY MUST THAT FEEL? Who can he commisserate with, who can he share stories with, who can he vent to...nobody. Sure, he may try, as Kent, to relate, to maybe anecdotally try to share some of Supes feelings by cloaking it as something else, but there is no family, no brothers, NOTHING ON THIS EARTH that he can truly bond with. He's alone, a loner, who Lex really honked off by severing his ties with Krypton. I don't think his true motivation in getting back the crystals was because Luthor was going to make the Eastern 4/5's of the US a watery grave, though of course that was partly the reason (who wants all their stuff to get waterlogged?)...the look on his face when he visited the fortress, to me at least, looked like someone who had now lost ALL SEMBLANCE OF TIES WITH HIS FAMILY (the holy Ghost of Jor-El, in particular). I think he wanted to vent, to share with the one disembodied presence who he can talk with, discuss these creepy feelings of jealousy and stalkerdom that he's experiencing, and it was gone.

Wow, I've rambled. Let's quiken this a bit...Lois, awful. Not only do I not grasp how the character of Lois in this film (and the past ones) would NOT be a proper soul mate for our lonely god, but what does he see in this character? Bosworth wasn't bad, but taking your fucking kid on a goddamn hunch? Not cutting the asthamatic fucks hair? 'Fer chrissakes, WHY IS HE IN THE DAILY PLANET at all? I know childcare is expensive, but with a posh pad on the water (with hydroplane!) you think they could spend a little on Montissori or something. But Marsters fucking rules. Remember me and Kaga riffing on being the current boyfriend to a chick who fucked Superman? How I thought it would be damn near impossible to ever come to grips that a man who could fucking fly was her ex? Well, HE COULD! Really, I'd of left the little man to be raised by him as well. Perfect. Perry and James, good stuff. The tyke, meh.

I liked Spacey in the role...but not the role itself as previously mentioned. Like Parker Posey bringin' the funnin, and dug Kal Penn's silent scientific Otis (that HAD to be the reason he never spoke, nice bit of reimagining there)...

FX, at times jaw dropping, at times simply average. That whole rescue of the botched space shuttle launch was a sight to behold, and Singer provided me with one of the most indelible images of the year with the baseball players lookin' up and seeing THAT! But then they went and threw me out of the momemnt with another horrendous CGI crowd shot. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen one that's impressed me (Goblet of Fire anyone), and this one was particularly lameass. Nitpick, sure, but with a massive budget in a movie that Singer and Co. promised would be a landmark leap foward in FX, you get no free pass. Not so keen on the genesis camera doohicky thingy as well. Digital is not yet film, sorry. You already spent oodles, you shoulda done the right thing and give us the goddamn best you could, and digital taint film, not yet anyway.

Wanna get back to the loneliness of Supes, and what I think the film got right, and where it indeed soared to Olypmpian heights, the Superman heroic montage. Jeebus, this man hears EVERYTHING, every little noise and squeak and dropped pin. The world, to him, must just be crying out for HELP every nanosecond. He can't (tho', sometimes when that selfish Struggling Background Artist is out stalking his ex-girl) NOT do anything, and the dazzling array of rescues, both big and small, was to me the highlight of this film. This is MY Superman, the one so few writers have nailed. Nearly, if not faster than the speed of light, he's able to avert disasters before they occur. Ditto to his saving of Metropolis (tho' I reckon other cities would've felt some effects and a montage (non Bruckheimeresque) of him racing about saving other urban centers would've been keen) and the RubeGoldberesque one thing leads to another leads to another leads to Iconic image # of Supes grabbing the plummeting Daily Planet Globe...good stuff that.

But the kid, the damn kid. I mean, I don't loathe his existence (yet), it plays directly to the holy spirit / father / son, but why reveal him as having powers IN THIS MOVIE? Why not let that stew for a while? What are they gonna do with this little fucker? What sort of films are we looking at in the future if this franchise has legs? I'm not saying they can't mine some great stories out of this, but I dunno if they're gonna be the stories I wanna spend my money on.

Ugh. I've just reread this. Terrible review. Take this as a lesson kiddies, weed, codeine and alcohol don't mix with film reviewing (film watching, yes). If you've read this far, sorry it's so damn long, I've just been stewing over these feelings for the last two days and they've finally erupted in this masturbatory cockup of a review. Just had to wipe the jizz from my mind.

Can't wait to read everyone elses take!
Personally, I'm an atheist in the voting booth and a theist in the movie theatre. I separate the morality of religion with the spirituality and solace of it. There is something boring about atheism.
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Postby Brocktune on Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:11 pm

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:Terrible review. Take this as a lesson kiddies, weed, codeine and alcohol don't mix with film reviewing (film watching, yes). If you've read this far, sorry it's so damn long, I've just been stewing over these feelings for the last two days and they've finally erupted in this masturbatory cockup of a review. Just had to wipe the jizz from my mind.


i liked it just fine.
even as fucked up as you might have been, a much better review than some ive read thus far.

and im not just saying that because i agree with most of it either.
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Postby Conroy420 on Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:40 pm

I enjoyed the film a lot and the only complaint the people I saw it with was that there was too much love story. It's superman I told them, what do you expect?

The special effects were well done, as they should be fore 200 million. The film kind of flutters and gets anticlimatic at the end but I still enjoyed it immensley.

Singer got great performances as usual out of all the actors, especially Routh who IS Superman/Clark Kent. Spacey showcased his fantastic talent, even though the character might not of been the vision i would've liked to have seen, more on that down the line. Even though Kate Bosworth has caught some flack, I enjoyed her in the role. James Marsden was great in this movie and its a shame he couldn't of had more of a role in the X films.

The plot of the film isn't the best but I still enjoyed it. The love story was well done and that aspect of the film, along with Superman's responsibility as a hero were the best of the movie. Luthor's plan was weak but that's just a nitpick, the people I saw it with all enjoyed it. As many have said, the Luthor in the film could have been expanded and its a shame he wasn't. The days of the 2d villains like the Luthor portrayed in this movie are coming to an end. The saving grace for that minus of the movie is that it is SUPERMAN and because of this a certain level of nostaglic cheese is acceptable.

As Morarity stated, its a worry that they have paintd themselves into a narrative corner with the son aspect of the series now. I would like him to grow older and bitter, becoming an anti-superman but the age of the actor would not allow this until at least a third film. So when the eventual second film of the new series arrives, most likly 2009 or 2010, I hope they include a villain that can go toe to toe with Superman and show his physical prowess. The way the action was handled in the first was great but another film like this just wont due. Bring on a new version of Braniac or maybe Doomsday, something that gives Supes a physical threat.

Overall the film, even with an anti-climatic ending, still held my attention with great fascination and as it came to an end I could have easily sat through another Superman film.

When done Singer and your resurrection/requelization of the Superman mythos.

7/10

J. Conroy June 29 2006
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Postby Adam Balm on Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:42 pm

Yeah, now I wanna see the AICN crew review a movie while strung out on smack and crushed up oxycontin.

But it would have to be a family friendly movie. I don't read their reviews of filth.
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Postby wheredidigo111 on Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm

I found out the planet i saw on Superman Returns opening credits. I think it was New Cronus. My brother thinks he saw Apokolips as well. Go back to Superman Returns and look at the opening credits and see what I'm talking about.
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Postby Adam Balm on Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:34 pm

I heard earth might be in there too, but I can't confirm it.
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Postby wheredidigo111 on Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:44 pm

Adam Balm wrote:I heard earth might be in there too, but I can't confirm it.


And how the hell am I go to "confirm it." All I can say is go to the movie and look at the opening credits and see what I'm talking about.
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