The Zone

by **Keepcoolbutcare** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:47 pm

Much respect to John Locke. Scorsese still keepin' busy, still working with Leo (Teddy Roosevelt bio after "The Departed").
This poll isn't even fair. Some days I'm inclined to go with Raging Bull, other days Goodfellas...you get the point. And if you go with other, cool. Explain which film (or Michael Jackson video) and why. Here's the IMDB page devoted to America's greatest living director.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000217/

by **MasterWhedon** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:01 pm

I'd say Goodfellas is his best and probably the one I enjoyed the most. That said, I loooooooove the "Werewolves of London" sequence from The Color of Money. The guy makes some classy flicks.

by **so sorry** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:03 pm

No New York, New York movie on the list???

I say Goodfellas #1, and Raging Bull second. GF was a near perfect movie. Raging Bull was great, but i wasn't as emotionally moved by it.

by **Adam Balm** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:03 pm

How the hell Raging Bull gets more love than Taxi Driver, I'll have no idea...

by **Keepcoolbutcare** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:12 pm

Adam Balm wrote:How the hell Raging Bull gets more love than Taxi Driver, I'll have no idea...

Camera skillz'.

It's another meditation on violence, but in Bull the audience is indicted as well (see the boxing sequence where the violence in the ring spills out into the audience).

I love me some Taxi Driver, but Bull, to me, is stone cold directorial pwnage.

by **WinslowLeach** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:13 pm

Some others not mentioned I really like: Boxcar Bertha, Alice Doesnt Live Here Anymore, The Last Waltz, Cape Fear.

Scorsese is one of my top favorite directors. Ive seen all his films and learned so much about filmmaking from his work over the years.

I'm really looking forward to seeing his Bob Dylan documentary and The Departed next.

by **Keepcoolbutcare** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:36 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:I'd say Goodfellas is his best and probably the one I enjoyed the most. That said, I loooooooove the "Werewolves of London" sequence from The Color of Money. The guy makes some classy flicks.

He gives a clinic on the use of music in Goodfellas.

Most (if not all) of the songs match the "real" time of the film, highlighted by the drug/paranoia freakout of "Mannish Boy", "Monkey Man" and "Step into the Fire".

Oh, and here's some sketchy intel. on the Roosevelt bio.
http://movies.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1047680.php/Scorsese_rises_for_Roosevelt

by **John-Locke** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:09 pm

I voted for Goodfellas because it's one of those rare films that changed the way I looked at movies completely. Casino is better in someways, Mean Streets in others etc. Taxi Driver & Raging Bull are void for me because I've never really watched them that many times, they are extremely important pieces of work that I love & respect but they lack a certain amount of entertainment value compared to some of his other work. Cape Fear is another of my favourites.

The Aviator sucked donkey balls.

by **Brocktune** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:11 pm

Adam Balm wrote:How the hell Raging Bull gets more love than Taxi Driver, I'll have no idea...

just my opinion, but i think Raging Bull is a more beautiful film than taxi driver. it seemed to be more sort of....emotionally profound for me. and the whole thing seems to go by in slow motion as well. maybe its the black and white, or the slow-mo at the beginning setting the tone. that being said, i chose "The King of Comedy". i think its his most subversively brilliant, and its hard not to love rupert pupkin, no matter how much of a douche he is. plus, it is one of the only jerry lewis movies where i went "you know, surprisingly, i dint hate jerry lewis, in fact he was really fucking good!" i think the only other jerry lewis movie i said that about was "its a mad mad mad mad world".

by **Adam Balm** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:13 pm

John-Locke wrote: Taxi Driver & Raging Bull are void for me because I've never really watched them that many times,

I watched Taxi Driver once and knew forever it would be one of my favorite films. You don't need TO WATCH IT A WHOLE BUNCH OF TIMES TO RECOGNIZE ITS PWNAGE!! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??! WHO ARE YOU???!!!

by **John-Locke** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:32 pm

Adam Balm wrote:
John-Locke wrote: Taxi Driver & Raging Bull are void for me because I've never really watched them that many times,

I watched Taxi Driver once and knew forever it would be one of my favourite films. You don't need TO WATCH IT A WHOLE BUNCH OF TIMES TO RECOGNIZE ITS PWNAGE!! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??! WHO ARE YOU???!!!

Although it doesn't specify I voted for my favourite, not necessarily the one I consider to be the best (if that makes sense), I saw Taxi Driver whilst I was studying Film at 16, I studied film because I saw films like Goodfellas when I was younger and they left more of an impression on me, Goodfellas isn't as inherently depressing as Taxi Driver & Raging Bull either, as I say I love both of them immensely but I've only seen then about a half dozen times a piece, where as with Goodfellas I've seen it 2 dozen times & it always entertains me.

I don't think Goodfellas had such a cultural impact in the states either, in the UK we recognized it's PWNAGE at the time.

by **WinslowLeach** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:40 pm

Johnny Locke: You should definitely watch Taxi Driver again. Its truly cinema at its purest and most brilliant.

Raging Bull is one of the best cinematic bio- character studies ever made. Its much like Taxi Driver in the way Jake LaMotta was really a hybrid of Scorsese/DeNiro/Schraders personalities.

Cape Fear: JL Im with ya on this one. I think alot of people overlook this remake, but I like it more than the original because it more ambiguous as far as the morality and as far as cinematic technique, its almost like Scorsese doing a riff on Bava meets DePalma. A totally energizing thriller.

by **John-Locke** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:47 pm

Winslow I know Taxi Driver like the back of my hand, I recognize it's PWNAGE but I prefer Goodfellas on a personal level. The last time I watched Taxi Driver was about 8 months ago, I still enjoyed it.

by **Colin** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:33 pm

I chose 'Other' for Bringing Out The Dead.

by **Brocktune** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:25 pm

Colin wrote:I chose 'Other' for Bringing Out The Dead.

ahh, nicholas cage. possibly the only thing worse than leo to happen to old scorsese

by **Colin** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:28 pm

Don't like him? No?

Well how 'bout you come here for a sec.

C'mon.

Little closer.

by **Pacino86845** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:37 am

Colin wrote:

Haha, that was funny. I don't know why people hate on Raging Bull so much... Taxi Driver is great but the first time I saw it I was actually kind of bored with it... love it now, but it had to grow on me first. Never had that problem with Raging Bull or Goodfellas. I chose Raging Bull because I found that it juxtaposed the personal with the iconic perfectly in Jake La Motta... there was nothing personal about Goodfellas, no sense of sympathy for any of the characters, but then again that's its genius, because it is loaded with emotion. Yeah, between Raging Bull, Taxi Driver and Goodfellas, I'd put Raging Bull ahead by a nose.

by **Agent Alonzo** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:44 am

Without mentioning names, might I suggest trying to impress everyone with the size of your internet penis film school qualifications is a bit of a waste. I am sure there are enough film degrees knocking about this forum to choke Pamela Anderson.
In the end it matters not a jot in a discussion of this nature.

Also nice to see the love for King of Comedy, thought I was the only one who thought that was a superb movie.

by **Pacino86845** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:59 am

I bet my internet film school penis is bigger than your internet film school penis!

by **Man-in-the-Box** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:01 am

Stupid internet radio school penis.

by **Agent Alonzo** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:18 am

I have a film,tv and radio penis, so it is multi-talented...

by **Man-in-the-Box** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:26 am

See, now that's impressive.

by **Pacino86845** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:27 am

Don't you two guys try to turn this into the "Late Friday/early Saturday" thread!!!!

by **Man-in-the-Box** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:59 am

Sorry. BTW, I found it really hard to choose in this particular poll. So many great movies. In the end, I went with The Color of Money, mainly because I didn't think that it would get any love. How's that Al?

by **Pacino86845** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:00 am

Man-in-the-Box wrote:Sorry. BTW, I found it really hard to choose in this particular poll. So many great movies. In the end, I went with The Color of Money, mainly because I didn't think that it would get any love. How's that Al?

Benne, molto benne. Grazie.

by **Cpt Kirks 2pay** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:05 am

I always thought this guy was overrated personally. With claims that he's America's greatest living Director being banded about, I find it all a bit questionable. Also Goodfellas I'm becoming less keen on, the more I see and think about it. Appraently there were some vague stories that Marty wanted to be part of his local gangster organisation or something related to the effect when he was younger, and in Goodfellas it shows. Looks like 'oh it was such a great laugh, we had such a lovely time, if you can just excuse the way it all ended'. Just seems to praise the lifestyle, rather than totally condemn it which is what it should do instead. Also with so many people imitating scenes and going on about how cool certain characters and nasty scenes were, and also with the amount of copycat movies made since, (a lot maybe by film directors who have no first hand knowledge of such people?) it seems that a lot of people, albeit on a shallow level (although it may lead to something more), think it's still cool to be a gangster. And I don't just mean rap artists!

by **burlivesleftnut** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:10 am

I hated Goodfellas, but love King of Comedy. His movies are hit and miss with me, but I haven't seen any of his over blown new shit in ages. God I think Goodfellas was the last movies of his that I saw.

by **Man-in-the-Box** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:18 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:I always thought this guy was overrated personally. With claims that he's America's greatest living Director being banded about, I find it all a bit questionable. Also Goodfellas I'm becoming less keen on, the more I see and think about it. Appraently there were some vague stories that Marty wanted to be part of his local gangster organisation or something related to the effect when he was younger, and in Goodfellas it shows. Looks like 'oh it was such a great laugh, we had such a lovely time, if you can just excuse the way it all ended'. Just seems to praise the lifestyle, rather than totally condemn it which is what it should do instead. Also with so many people imitating scenes and going on about how cool certain characters and nasty scenes were, and also with the amount of copycat movies made since, (a lot maybe by film directors who have no first hand knowledge of such people?) it seems that a lot of people, albeit on a shallow level (although it may lead to something more), think it's still cool to be a gangster. And I don't just mean rap artists!

I see what you're saying, but this was LOOSELY based on a true story and real people. It's not like Scarface, (not that there's anything wrong with Scarface). The real life Henry Hill is like that. He seems to have no regrets about his mobster days. Even if he's a big loser now. People are fascinated with the mafia and it's colorful charactors. Personally, I like most mob movies, although I wouldn't want to be a mobster, or even hang out with them. Mainly because I wouldn't want to worry about whether I was going to end up with a baseball bat firmly planted in my cranium.

by **Agent Alonzo** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:20 am

ManBoxy is correct, the movie is very close to the book in feel and tone...

by **Man-in-the-Box** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:30 am

I haven't read the book, perhaps I should do that someday. I am happy that I was right though, especially since I was just making all of that up. Just kidding. If I'm not mistaken, Henry Hill put out a cookbook a few years back. (to lazy to actually check it out right now). For a while there, he was on every morning show on the radio dial, and I think that's what he was pimping. I also think I heard recently, (within the last week or so that he was busted for something, (again, too lazy to check it out).

by **Pacino86845** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:32 am

Well, according to the poll it's a 3-way tie right now between Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, and Goodfellas... who will come out the victor?

by **Keepcoolbutcare** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:35 am

Agent Alonzo wrote:Without mentioning names, might I suggest trying to impress everyone with the size of your internet penis film school qualifications is a bit of a waste. I am sure there are enough film degrees knocking about this forum to choke Pamela Anderson.
In the end it matters not a jot in a discussion of this nature.

Also nice to see the love for King of Comedy, thought I was the only one who thought that was a superb movie.

Hey I got my degree from the Internet Penis Film SchoolTM.

by **John-Locke** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:38 am

Agent Alonzo wrote:Without mentioning names, might I suggest trying to impress everyone with the size of your internet penis film school qualifications is a bit of a waste. I am sure there are enough film degrees knocking about this forum to choke Pamela Anderson.
In the end it matters not a jot in a discussion of this nature.

Also nice to see the love for King of Comedy, thought I was the only one who thought that was a superb movie.

Sorry Alonzo but I'm going to have to call you on this, seeing as how I'm the only person in the thread to mention my education. Did you read my post properly? I only mentioned that I studied film because of the impact films like Goodfellas had on me when I was younger, not because I was trying to qualify my opinion.

If you are going to call someone out, do your research & stop being Glib.

by **vicious_bastard** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:41 am

Colour Of Money is his best non-De Niro movie. I find it hard to judge the direction alone in things like Mean Streets or Taxi Driver because De Niro's characters are so mesmerizing. Would either be as successful without the other? Mean Streets blows my ass off every time I see it.

by **ThisIsTheGirl** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:57 am

I nudged Taxi Driver into the lead.

I accept the massive, spectacular quality of Goodfellas, Raging Bull, Mean Streets, King of Comedy (my second choice out of this list) and, to a lesser extent, Casino.

But he created an eternal icon in Taxi Driver - there are images in that movie which will probably outlast the movie itself, and certainly any of the other movies on that list.

Find me an iconic image in Goodfellas and I'll find you ten in Taxi Driver. The only other contender for immortality is really the opening sequence of Raging Bull, and that is partly due to the use of the intermezzo from Cavalleria Rusticana - so Taxi Driver gets my vote because it has a timelessness without the aid of classical music.

by **thomasgaffney** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:28 am

I had to go with Taxi Driver. Probably the only one of Marty's movies to make it in my personal top 10.

by **Cpt Kirks 2pay** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:58 am

If I'm not mistaken, Henry Hill put out a cookbook a few years back. (For a while there, he was on every morning show on the radio dial

So if I was like, one of the gangster hit men, out to track him down even if he's under witness protection, my starting place would be to get his cookbook and tune find the location of this radio show? Such great clues man, you didn't even change your name dufus.

by **WinslowLeach** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:21 am

GoodFellas didnt really "glamorize" the life to me, it just told it like it was. It showed the high points and the low points honestly. I can see why people think that, because for some of the movie it really has that aspect to it, but it always shows the good and bad points of the lifestyle.

Visit Henrys website (if its still online)

http://www.goodfellahenry.com

Scorsese is a director that is definitely not "overrated". Hes one of the greats, and if you look at his work, you'll see that. His movies may not be for everybody, but you cant deny his talent and influence as a cinema storyteller.

JL: King of Comedy is def one of his best films. I think we talked about it in another topic one time.

"Jerry would you like a picture of my Pride and Joy?"

The Color of Money is a good film (I actually like the direction more than the story/characters), but I still prefer The Hustler to it. I just never really cared too much for the older, wiser Eddie Felsen and Tom Cruise is a total goon in it. Everytime I watch him in it, I think of Ben Stiller's SNL spoof haha. Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio on the other hand is hot as hell in it.

by **Shane** on Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:18 pm

Taxi Driver is still one of the finest films ever to me.

by **Seppuku** on Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:50 pm

Hard to choose really, but just because I'm a big fan of nightmare-night/coming apart at the seems movies, I voted for After Hours. Also for the fact that he gave Griffin Dunne a job.

But let's be serious here, that's a watchable, well-made movie, but as far as Scorsese's genius at its height I think The King of Comedy deserves that accolade. It ripped into America's backslapping entertainment industry (specifically television) to the pont where all that Jerry Lewis/Ed Sullivan style gurning got mostly crushed and replaced by slightly more biting family entertainment like The Mary Tyler Moore Show and later The Simpsons. It didn't do it in the same way as Quiz Show, instead it literally kidnapped the host and exposed him to a couple of psychos.

This is something Scorsese used to be great at, ripping apart the belly of established regimes and letting the guts spill out. Now it looks like he's resigned himself to looking back on Olde Hollywood, which he helped destroy, with starry eyes.

by **Cabiria** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:49 am

Yeah, I threw down for Age of Innocence. Think you boys can handle that? All wrapped up in your Raging Taxi Fella Gangs violence- too blind to see the beauty of a well made, meticulous costume drama that is one of the tightest book to film adaptations ever? Ha! HA I say!

But seriously, while I love deeply most of Scorsese's work, AOI was such a complete departure for him- so unexpectedly great. It's not a loud flashy story, of course, but I think it is an important and overlooked part of an incredible career. I can see why many would be turned off- it's a story that creeps along, the setting is completely foreign, and there is the Winona problem, but I still think it's great. And the ending is divine.

I await your mockery. :roll:

by **Keepcoolbutcare** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:51 am

Cabiria wrote:Yeah, I threw down for Age of Innocence. Think you boys can handle that? All wrapped up in your Raging Taxi Fella Gangs violence- too blind to see the beauty of a well made, meticulous costume drama that is one of the tightest book to film adaptations ever? Ha! HA I say!

But seriously, while I love deeply most of Scorsese's work, AOI was such a complete departure for him- so unexpectedly great. It's not a loud flashy story, of course, but I think it is an important and overlooked part of an incredible career. I can see why many would be turned off- it's a story that creeps along, the setting is completely foreign, and there is the Winona problem, but I still think it's great. And the ending is divine.

I await your mockery.

good call, actually. Haven't seen it since I saw it in the theater, but I was dutifully impressed.

by **John-Locke** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:55 am

I finally saw AOI around Xmas time, I missed the first 15 minutes but I watched anyway, I did get interupted and missed a few scenes but on the whole I enjoyed what I saw, I'll have to watch it again one day, certainly better than The Aviator, Gangs of NY and Bringing out the Dead from what I saw. If I saw it when it came out (I was 13) I honestly don't think I would have been mature enough to get it, sometimes it's better to wait until you are ready, in another 5 years I'm sure it'll be just right for me.

by **Cabiria** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:22 am

John-Locke wrote:I finally saw AOI around Xmas time, I missed the first 15 minutes but I watched anyway, I did get interupted and missed a few scenes but on the whole I enjoyed what I saw, I'll have to watch it again one day, certainly better than The Aviator, Gangs of NY and Bringing out the Dead from what I saw. If I saw it when it came out (I was 13) I honestly don't think I would have been mature enough to get it, sometimes it's better to wait until you are ready, in another 5 years I'm sure it'll be just right for me.

So wait- because I DID appreciate it, I'm old? Uh huh. Ok.

Bastard.

:wink:

Actually, I'm a huge Wharton/costume drama fan, so I was genetically programmed to like this movie. I'm surprised that anyone actually agreed! I figured this was due for the inevitable setdown. Color me impressed.

by **John-Locke** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:39 am

I wasn't implying you were old, Just reflecting on my own level of maturity and maturity in general which past a certain age hasn't got a lot to do with age as much as experience and applied knowledge.

Sorry if I came across like an ageist, I'm not, I just know my own cinematic tastes change with my maturity, I no longer crave the violence and brutality like I did a while back. Now I still like things with a certain amount of energy most of the time but not in the same way as when I was an angry young man.

by **Leckomaniac** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:40 am

No Gangs of New York...that is one hell of a revenge tale and I can't get enough of it.

by **Cabiria** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:44 am

John-Locke wrote:I wasn't implying you were old, Just reflecting on my own level of maturity and maturity in general which past a certain age hasn't got a lot to do with age as much as experience and applied knowledge.

Sorry if I came across like an ageist, I'm not, I just know my own cinematic tastes change with my maturity, I no longer crave the violence and brutality like I did a while back. Now I still like things with a certain amount of energy most of the time but not in the same way as when I was an angry young man.

Don't worry- I was just messing with you.

And I think you are very right in that many films that appeal to us when we are in our teens lose quite a bit of luster a couple of years down the road. Lord knows now I have a much lower tolerance for Meg Ryan romantic comedies... and I've said too much... :oops:

by **John-Locke** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:53 am

HAHAHAHAH

"In the Cut" will do that to the most hardened Ryan fans, I stupidly rented that one to watch with my Mother one night, she was not impressed.

Joe Versus the Volcano seems like even more of a masterpiece in retrospect.

by **Seppuku** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:56 am

John-Locke wrote:Joe Versus the Volcano seems like even more of a masterpiece in retrospect.

Can't we have just ONE damn Scorsese talkback without you bringing up that movie? :wink:

Confession, I really liked it too. Especially the beginning, which had that weird Brazil vibe to it.

by **Nachokoolaid** on Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:38 am

Raging Bull. Not only Scorsese's best, but the best film of the 80s. And I don't even really like Scorsese that much.

This was the film (I saw it after Goodfellas, and Casino, etc.) that made me finally understand why when people mention the greatest actors ever, De Niro usually comes up. So yes, I think this performance was better than Travis Bickle. This and Rocky and Bullwinkle, of course.

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