SUPERMAN ON DVD (1, 2, 3, 4, Donner Cut, and Returns)

[Chairman Kaga]

That's pretty cheap for content.

[Nachokoolaid]

Part of me really wants that 14 disc set. I honestly will probably never see some of the features, but for how much is there, the price seems reasonable. Maybe for X-mas.

[RogueScribner]

14 discs is a little too much of a good (and occasionally mediocre) thing to me. I'll likely be buying the Special Edition of 1, the Donner Cut of 2 and Returns.

Which I was inclined to do as well, but then I figured for the money you'll be paying for those, you may as well plunk down another $20 - $25 to get the whole shebang!

[wonkabar]

14 discs is a little too much of a good (and occasionally mediocre) thing to me. I'll likely be buying the Special Edition of 1, the Donner Cut of 2 and Returns.

That's what I'm thinking right now too.

[RogueScribner]

Review of the Donner Cut. Credit to Jiveguy over on the Superman Cinema forums.

Um, SPOILERS?

Just got back. I have to be up again in five hours, so I'll write a couple of notes about the experience, then answer some quick questions. I'll be checking the board all day tomorrow at work if you guys have further questions...

Cool things about the night...
-Richard Donner, Margot Kidder, Brandon Routh, Bryan Singer, Sam Huntington, Sarah Douglas, Jack O'Holloran, Marc McClure, Tom Mankewicz, and Mike Thau were in attendance.

-I took the stairs and accidentally came in through the back which led me right into the VIP party so i got to see them in person, up close. (Didn't speak to them though). They served Kryptontinis at the bar.

-Here's something you won't hear ANYWHERE. Ilya Salkind was in attendance, sitting in the back. After the screening in the post QandA Margot Kidder was speaking highly about Donner and about how much better this version of the film was and Ilya yelled out from the back "NO IT'S NOT" and walked to the back of the screening room, pissed. interesting eh?

-Everyone got a free copy of the new Action Comics issue, written by Richard Donner.

that's all I have the energy to write up for now. Now for the questions...


1. How were the new special effects compared to the original film?

They looked great and really fit in. Meaning, they're not over the top spectacular to the point where it's obvious they added 2006 effects into a 1980 film. I thought they handled that well. It still looks like a 1980 film.

2. How were the East Houston scenes handled? Different music, edited differently, different takes?

The scene where they land in the water, then, confront the two patrolmen are still there. The next Houston scene we get is when the TV reporter is there. So basically the whole bar scene is taken out, and the scene where Ursa kills the boy was never put in.

3. Did they cut out the finger powers?

Yeah, actually. lol

4. How often did they use a stand-in and was it obvious?

Only to the trained eye. The only time where is was slightly obvious, and I mean slightly, is when Lois jumps out the window and falls into the fruit stand. When she looks up at Clark, who is standing at the window, it is clear they used a stand in. But probably only to us.

5. What was the lamest thing about the new cut?

Seeing the RIC cut will definitely spoil this experience for some, mainly because a lot of the great scenes that were added for the TV versions were trimmed, or not added at all.

For instance there's some dialogue cut in the scene between Superman and Lois after he destroys the fortress of solitude, and the scene at the end where he bumps into the big guy at the elevator, which reminds him of the bully at the diner was not even added (Thau said this would be included as a deleted scene on the DVD).


6. What was the lamest new scene?

A lot of people might say it will be the scene where Lois finds out Clark is Superman. This is mainly because it's clearly from the auditions, and also because Reeve's hair noticeably changes with each shot. I however loved seeing it and it was very pleasing seeing the effort that was put into making the scene work. We've been wanting this cut for SO LONG, I'm sure many of us will gladly look past this. On a side note, when Lois unveils the fact that she was using blanks and says "gotcha," the crowd popped BIG TIME, and it got the biggest reaction during the movie. It went over very well.

7. What was the best thing about the new cut?

Definitely the first 3/5 of the movie. It's practically a COMPLETELY new experience, I couldn't beleive it. Almost everything is either new, or approached differently up until the point where Clark loses his powers and they go to the diner.

and also...

THE BRANDO SCENES!!!!!!!!!!!! These came out WAAAY better than I could have possibly expected. The scene where Clark decides to give up his powers and has a talk with his father is hands down the best performance Reeve's gives in the whole saga (Margot Kidder touched on that in the post Q and A). Plus, the movie opens with the trial of the villains, only this time Brando is present in the scene, acting face to face with Terrence Stamp.

8. What was the most unexpected scene?

The Morgot Kidder topless scene Donner always wanted to add...

Just kidding.

The most unexpected for me was the short scene where the villains quicly destroy the Washington Monument INSTEAD of the Mount Rushmore.

9. What would YOU have changed if you were to have done the editing (other than CGI VILLIANS RULE THE WORLD, THANK YOU MR. THAU!!!)?

I have to admit, this Donner cut was spectacular, but I'm not throwing away my Lester and RIC versions just yet. Mainly because a lot of what I like about Superman 2 isn't there anymore. And this will change from person to person, but here's what I loved that's missing (this is just me nitpicking, don't panic).....

-The Music. They changed the music for a lot of the scenes and the effect just IS NOT the same. Like when Superman kneels before Zod and starts crushing his hand, I was waiting for that music to start....but it didn't. There was a slight delay, and when it did play, it was different. Same goes for the rooftop scene at the end with Lois and Superman, the music's changed. Plus the musical cue at the end is adjusted so it's like Superman Returns, (as he's flying through space the music peaks before he even leaves the screen).

- The scene where Clark fly's the American flag to the White House and tells the President "I'll never let you down again" is gone.

- "General, care to step outside?"....gone

- The "magic kiss", gone. I know people hated that scene, but it just had a great "morning after" feeling and I love the dialogue between Superman and Lois.

and etc. etc.

"Did they leave the balloon scene as is? I thought it was an excellent suggestion from this site to restore a night time skyline to that scene."

You know, I didn't really notice the skyline. However the scene is noticeably longer, with more back and forth banter between Lex and Otis. Like I said, the first 3/5 of the movie feels like a different film.

"-Without totally spoiling me, can you tell me if Luthor's scenes were significantly expanded, or is it roughly the same amount of screen time as the theatrical."

He actually has more screen time. And a lot of his dialogue is spoken differently, I'm assuming they used different takes. But the most notable addition of a Lex scene was when he finds the Fortress for the first time.


I just want to get across a couple things...

First, the beginning of the film is amazing. The trial and imprisonment of the villains just feels like an EVENT, and it's a great way to open the film. That along with every Brando scene is gold and worth the DVD purchase alone.

Second, it's a great film now, but there's a lot of great stuff that's been cut out, so don't throw away your RIC's and Lester versions just yet. That was the most dissapoint aspect of it for me.

Third, almost every scene in the movie has been changed or extended to a certain degree.

Fourth, don't know why, but it doesn't feel as epic anymore.

[DennisMM]

14 discs is a little too much of a good (and occasionally mediocre) thing to me. I'll likely be buying the Special Edition of 1, the Donner Cut of 2 and Returns.

That's what I'm thinking right now too.

I'm getting it for the solstice but I'd be happier if they'd thrown in the international cut of Supergirl. Yeah, fuck you, too.

[RogueScribner]

I can't fathom how a longer cut of crap could make it less crappier.

[RogueScribner]

Okay, here is what is in the Donner Cut from Lester.

-NASA point of view on Earth, during the attack on the moon. But humorous parts are cut out.

-Outside shot of the prison at night after the villians leave the moon has been cut.

-Villians arrive on Earth, but the fisherman scene is cut. Possibly the walking on water scene and maybe the snake bite.

-Lois & Clark check into their room, but the scene ends with them walking in.

-Villians confront the Sheriff and Deputy Dwayne. Their conversation prior to seeing Zod, Ursa and Non has been cut. It starts with "Betcha ten dollars they're from Los Angeles." Scene ends with the shotgun blast and possibly Zod calling it a crude noisemaker.

-The reporter who is talking about the arrival of the Kryptonians and the military fight. Cut is where the jeep crashes into the sign. Only the audio is heard as the scene cuts elsewhere. The flame thrower effects have been CGI enhanced. The guy in the bar jumping out the window is cut. Ursa's superbreath on the helicopter has been sped up.

-Superman and Lois arriving at the Fortress. Cooking the souffle and their post dinner conversation. Scene ends with Superman telling Lois that everything is clear for the first time.

-Zod talking to the Army General is in, but the speech before that is cut.

-Mount Rushmore's footage has been replaced the Washington Monument being trashed.

-The background gunshots in the White House attack has been cut. Couple bits of the attack were cut, but the flag falling is in.

-No word revealed yet as to how much of the Metropolis showdown remains the same, beyond the opening of the fight, which has been changed. Though all unncessary humor has been cut. Zod tossing the concrete block scene has been left in, but a different take of Superman saying "I'm not a coward Zod" has been put in.


Several Donner and Lester scenes have been replaced with alternate takes. Some of these lines are unlooped. Also, several of Ken Thorne's tracks are in the film along with the original Williams tracks.

[Chairman Kaga]

Is the scene of Zod shooting people in the White House in?

[RogueScribner]

I'm not sure. I haven't read anything about that yet. It seems like Donner trimmed the studly from Lester's film as much as possible and used alternate takes wherever else possible. I'm glad that hokey Hickville, U.S.A. scene was trimmed down. Yeesh.

[DennisMM]

I must admit a fondness for "I couldn't possibly eat fish," but it belonged in another movie. Will be very happy not to see the "southern" boy with the English accent asking Zod to put his "dah-dy" down.

[Cpt Kirks 2pay]

A??!?!?! Where are all the EXTRA deleted scenes that Ithought were supposed to be added, including hints that Zod & his leather panted friends live? Or do I need to get off my lazy ass and scroll up more, or check previous pages?

Damn I want that scene of Ursa in leather kicking the crud out of me. Oh damn, the invention for turnign your fantasies into onscreen images hasn't been invented yet.

Damn you guys and me letting cats out of the bag about what the future holds after I found the Back to the Future time travelling code, secret and key in the Back to the Future thread that allowed me to go forward in time. Damn I'm not supposed to let you lot know that I'm from the future right now. Guess I should go back in time and redo this post then - or maybe I should just re-edit this post.

Yeah well, I should do a lot of things.

[Cpt Kirks 2pay]

I must admit a fondness for "I couldn't possibly eat fish," but it belonged in another movie. Will be very happy not to see the "southern" boy with the English accent asking Zod to put his "dah-dy" down.

'They have a waade selection' had just better be in or I'll be Mad as Zod going 'TAAAKE HI-IIIIII-IIIIIIIIII-IIIIIIIIMMMM!!!!!!!!'

I love the 'Excuse me Mr General, please let my Daddy down' scene thougyh. So cruddy it's great. Evre thought about calling yourself a Zod Mod or something Dennis? I dunno, some funny clever word play on the words or summat.

[RogueScribner]

A??!?!?! Where are all the EXTRA deleted scenes that Ithought were supposed to be added, including hints that Zod & his leather panted friends live? Or do I need to get off my lazy ass and scroll up more, or check previous pages?

Check out the specs:



DISC 7- Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut
*All new introduction by director Richard Donner
*Commentary by director Richard Donner and creative consultant Tom Mankiewicz
*New featurette Superman II: Restoring the Vision
*Additional scenes
*Dolby Digital 5.1

Does that answer your question, Kirk?

[svefn_genglar_77]

I think the guy who wrote the review of Donner's 2 for the main page is an idiot.

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

Thought I'd point out this article on Newsarama. An interview with Superman 1 and 2 writer Tom Mankiewicz. It always bothered me when someone would bring up how Superman flew around the Earth backwards to turn back time, that some other idiot would say "he didn't really do that! he just went back in time, and showing him flying around the earth backwards was just symbolic of that. he didn't really do it!" which I thought was asinine thing to say. He's Superman. He spins planets on his little finger. Why is it unbelievable that he did what he did? And now here is the writer of the movie saying "Superman turns the world backwards." Not "Superman goes back in time and we show that symbolically on screen as him turning the world backwards." So, to all the people who claimed otherwise, stuff this up your ass.
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=91990

[Chairman Kaga]

I thought Puzo wrote those films.

[RogueScribner]

Puzo is credited, but Mankiewicz did extensive rewrites after being hired by Donner to inject some "verisimilitude" into the production. I forget the reason why, but instead of crediting Mankiewicz for his work as a writer, they simply gave him credit as a "creative consultant".

[DennisMM]

The IMDB writing credits are:

Mario Puzo (screenplay)

and David Newman and Leslie Newman (screenplay)

I don't think Mankiewicz, despite his work, did what the WGA considers sufficient writing to get his name on the screenplay. You can put in lots of little touches that make a movie feel right, but unless you've got your name on an approved draft of the script you're unlikely to get screen credit.

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

According to the article I linked, Mankiewicz didn't even read Puzo's draft. The interview also discusses the Newmans and what happened with Mankiewicz regarding credit. Seems to me Mankiewicz was the only writer who actually worked with Donner on the movies.

[Tyrone_Shoelaces]

Why do I know this?

Not sure if this applied in 1980 but WGA rules say that writing credits can only be two lines and can only have two names in each line. They also say that you have to contribute at least 50% new material on a rewrite to get screen credit. So, if the credit is:

Screenplay by
Mario Puzo
&
David Newman and Leslie Newman

chances are there was contractual stuff or Mankiewicz just didn't meet the 50% requirement. I'm guessing that the "creative consultant" credit was a consolation prize, though judging by his involvement it wasn't a bad thing.

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

NRAMA: So you wrote the majority of the pictures?

TM: Yeah, most of what you see on the screen in Superman and Superman II was written by me. What happened was I stayed on the picture for well over a year. I was with Donner through the casting and the location scouting and all those things.

When the first Superman was ready to come out, Donner said, “I think you really deserve a different credit. You’d obviously get a writing credit, maybe even first writing credit but I’d like to give you a separate card and it would be on the screen and all the paid advertising.â€

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

Well, according to dvdactive.com, the geniuses at Warner Home Video have managed to fuck up arguably their biggest release of the year. In the Ultimate Superman Collection the dvd for Superman III, which is supposed to have new special features, commentary, etc. is instead the 2001 barebones Superman III release with no such features. What a bunch of fucking morons. Apparently, separately and in the Chris Reeve collection the Superman III disc is the new one, but in what should have been the best set of the year, they've fucked it up.

[RogueScribner]

That sucks. I've already ordered my ultimate set. Gah.

[RogueScribner]

My set arrived today! WOO HOO! I get to bask in the glory of Superman a day early!!!

[Chairman Kaga]

Rogue was your Superman 3 disc the old one as stated above? I'm wondering if only some of the sets slipped out that way or all of them.

[RogueScribner]

The set was delivered to my brother's house, but he called me to say it arrived. I'm leaving right now to go get it. I'll report back soon.

[RogueScribner]

Okay, I just popped in the Superman III disc from the Ultimate Collection and it is indeed the old DVD from a few years ago. It has the new artwork on the outside, but the menu (and its selections) is exactly the same. I popped in the Superman IV DVD in comparison and it is a new menu design and has the proper special features listed.

Well, shit. What do I do? Write to Warner Bros. for a replacement disc?

[Seppuku]

I...preferred...Dick.............................. ..Lester...to...Dick............................Do nner.

There, I said it.


I know it's not what you expected your Superman to be, but he brought some of the magic of The Three/Four Musketeers to Je--- I mean Superman, and for that I think they were better films.

[Chairman Kaga]

Ick to you Sepp...

Rogue I assume at some point in the coming months there will be some disc replacement deal but I guess for now try and contact them to join a growing group of semi disgrutled consumers.

[RogueScribner]

I think it's one thing to insert the incorrect disc into a package. I can MAYBE see how that could happen. But to burn the incorrect data on a set of discs and then put the CORRECT artwork on it and then insert it into the CORRECT box set, but not extend the same mistake to a similarly packaged box set (The Christopher Reeve Collection) baffles me.

So now I guess I'll have to rent the new Superman III DVD (if it's available anywhere) just so I don't have to wait months to see it.

[RogueScribner]

Sepp, are you saying Superman III was a more satisfying film experience than Superman: The Movie? Or half of Superman II (and I think it's pretty easy to tell which half)? Wiggy.

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

I think it's one thing to insert the incorrect disc into a package. I can MAYBE see how that could happen. But to burn the incorrect data on a set of discs and then put the CORRECT artwork on it and then insert it into the CORRECT box set, but not extend the same mistake to a similarly packaged box set (The Christopher Reeve Collection) baffles me.

So now I guess I'll have to rent the new Superman III DVD (if it's available anywhere) just so I don't have to wait months to see it.

Go to Walmart tomorrow, buy Superman III, switch the disc, and then return it. No more dishonest than what WB has done, regardless of it being a mistake.

[DennisMM]

I'd write to somebody immediately, even call, Rogue. They need to get those discs replaced and the more and the sooner people squeal the sooner it will happen.

[RogueScribner]

I'm trying to find an address or phone number but their web site isn't very helpful.

ETA: I found this link to an e-mail contact on their website. I couldn't get to this page by navigating their own site. I had to find this link in a list of customer service addresses/links on another site. Oy vey.

I hope the e-mail reaches someone and they respond soon. If not, I'll try a phone call in a few days.

[shakermakerman]

i have the old box set of all 4 filmfs do u think is wirth me buying the other box set or just buying thee new superman 1 and 2?

[RogueScribner]

Well, the only disc I've watched so far is the director's cut of S2. I personally think it's worth the upgrade just to keep from flipping discs to view content.

As for the director's cut . . .

I liked it. I'll have to watch Lester's cut to do a thorough comparison, but overall I think Donner's cut is superior.

THE GOOD:

All the slapstick humor that was obviously from Lester's influence has been excised.

A lot of the gratuitous sound effects have been cut as well. It's a much more naturalistic sounding film.

The Hickville, USA scenes have been trimmed down to just the essentials. No more British Boy yelling for his Daddy!

BRANDO - I ate all of his scenes up. I also dug how confrontational Superman got with his dear old dad in a couple of scenes. And Brando's final sacrifice is much more entertaining than just Superman looking at a green crystal and smash cutting to his return.

The REVEAL - much cooler reveal of Superman's secret identity than in the Lester version (where he trips over a bear's head and loses his glasses ). I like it better despite the scene being test footage! Plus that leads into Lois watching Superman give up his powers (after they've slept together, BTW) and she's so cute wearing nothing but his Superman shirt.

Christopher Reeve seems to give a more empassioned performance in a lot of the restored footage.

THE INTERESTING

The new opening with Lois leaping out a window versus going to Paris. It's a cute way to open the movie, but in the Lester version at least you get to see Superman in action. Yet, it's very character driven and it sets up a major arc for the film, so it evens out for me.

I admit to missing some of the Lester footage, mainly when it comes to Lois and Clark. The scenes I missed were those that were cut and not replaced with anything new (mainly Niagra Falls stuff, but some other bits as well).

THE ODD

The first half of the film contains a lot of abrupt edits. It may be a product of marrying two different films together where they don't quite fit no matter how you try. It also may be the result of my memory expecting certain things to happen but they don't. It's not a deal breaker, but it was odd to watch. This goes for the scene transitions and music. Most of the time it's fine, but sometimes it's just not smooth.

The visual effects - you can tell which ones are new. I know they were on a budget in restoring this film, but I saw better effects in Star Trek V!

The final Fortress fight - on the one hand, I'm glad some of the inexplicable powers have been deleted (cellaphane "S", disappearing, white power rays, etc.), but the absence of any sort of physical confrontation before Superman lays his trap was a bit jarring. It seems like something is missing, but that could be just because I'm used to Lester's version.

The ENDING - time travel dejá vu! Okay, so the story is that this was the original scripted ending for Superman II but during the shooting process they decided to use the time travel gimmick to end the first movie instead (since they wanted to up the emotional stakes by killing Lois). They then decided to think up a new ending while on break and have it all sorted out when they come back to finish the movie. That never happened. So now they were faced with the choice of using the shot ending or going with Lester's version. They decided that Clark should never kiss Lois (only Superman can do that) and if they went with the ending we all know that'd require Superman going back to the White House and they really wanted to incorporate the final Daily Planet scene between Clark and Lois, so they went with the time travel ending. I think the ending works better in the first movie and not just because it's repeated here. There were real stakes that Superman had to deal with at the end of the first movie but here it's just Lois feeling bad. Is that really worth turning back time for? It's not clear if Superman prevented Zod's escape the second go around or if everything happened just the same save for him revealing himself to Lois. It's kinda wacky that way. Inexplicably, if we are to believe he never lost his powers, he still goes back to the diner to teach that bully a lesson and the owner mentions having to fix up the place from the last time, so that's a bit weird as well. I'm curious about the third unknown ending to Superman II. I'm listening to the commentary now; maybe Donner will mention an idea.

Anyhoo, there were also deleted scenes on the DVD, which includes more Luthor footage and some little character bits with Superman/Clark. Nothing major.

This movie clocks in around 20 minutes shorter than the Lester version, most of the footage being cut from the first half. So many of the Zod scenes are cut down, Niagra Falls was cut down, and Hickville, USA was taken down to its core. After Superman reaches the Fortress with Lois the rest of the movie plays out as you'd expect (with new scenes here and there).

All in all, I liked this leaner, meaner cut of the movie. Brando is back where he belongs. Clark/Superman goes on more of an emotional journey. A lot of the beats were better punctuated in Donner's footage over Lester's. I think Lester had a better edit, but that's probably because he had the time and resources to do the film right. Donner was working backwards here nearly 30 years later. The ending is weird, but I understand why it was included. Who believed in that "magic kiss" anyway? Any fan of Donner's Superman owes it to themselves to check this movie out. You should be pleased.

[Vicarious]

I couldn't pass up the $70 price tag on this... I was gonna get SR anway (which I loved), and this is a great way for me to get into the series. The only other one I've seen is the original. So... I have a question for those that have now seen the Donner cut. What do you reccommend for a Superman II first-timer, the theatrical or the Donner cut?

Also, here's the statement from WB concerning their fuck-ups:

Bonus content was omitted from the "Superman III Deluxe Edition" in the 14-disc "Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition." Furthermore, disc one of "Superman: The Movie Four Disc Special Edition" did not include the Dolby Digital 2.0 mix. Neither disc is known to be physically defective in any way.

Warner Home Video wants to extend apologies to all of our loyal Superman fans who've waited so patiently for these great collections and has taken immediate steps to correct these errors with the intention of standing behind our product 100%.

Replacement discs can be obtained by calling: 800-553-6937. The exchange program applies only to purchases of the "Superman III Deluxe Edition" in the "Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition" and to disc one of "Superman: The Movie Four Disc Special Edition," available as a single title, as well as in "The Christopher Reeve Superman Collection" and in the "Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition."

[ONeillSG1]

I bought the uber-cool 3 Disc (Yes, I said three) set at Circuit City of Superman Returns. It was basically the 2-disc set with all the extras plus the National Geographic documentary "The Science of Superman". PLUS I got a lithograph photo of Routh in costume on the roof of the Daily Planet.

20 bucks.

Plus I picked up the Donner cut for $17.99.

BONUS!!!

PLUS . . .

Theatrical Versions Box Set of Lord of the Rings for $17.99 at Best Buy. 6 DISC SET!!! 3 DOLLARS A DISC!!! CHEAP!!!

WHAT A DAY!!!

<collapses from the rush>

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

Man, I would have just used my connection at WB to go over there and buy it, which probably would have saved me like 35 bucks on the Ultimate Collection, but they apparently aren't selling it there at the moment, as they sent them all to actual stores. So, I bought it at Costco for $65 bucks for the time being and called the 800 number.

[RogueScribner]

Vicarious,

If you've never seen Superman II before, see the original (Lester) version first. It's the more complete film experience. Then watch the Donner cut and see what the original intent was.

Thanks for the number. I e-mailed WB and never got a reply back.

ETA: I just called the number and they took my name and number and said they'd call back in 24 hours. Okay . . .

[Chairman Kaga]

I hope they fixed the problem so newer shipments are corrected so I don't end up with the wrong discs if I buy the set later this month.

[RogueScribner]

I doubt they're recalling any sets so any that have all been sent out to the distributors are probably going to be on the shelves for a while. It'll probably be a couple of months before fixed sets arrive.

Something similar happened with the BTTF DVDs, right? I think it took Universal a while to fix that, too.

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

Yeah It wont get fixed in stores until the stores sell all the ones they have.

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

Both Donner and Mankiewicz refer to the Phantom Zone as "The Zone of Silence" in the commentary for the "Donner Cut." What the fuck is up with that? Mankiewicz also can't keep it straight whose name is Jor-el and whose name is Kal-el.

[RogueScribner]

I chock it up as a brain fart. When is the last time these men dealt with Superman? Decades ago. Even Bryan Singer referred to Superman as "Jor-El" instead of "Kal-El" at Comic Con. Heck, he also said Wolverine had one claw! People say things they don't mean sometimes, especially when pressured to keep talking. As long as they get it right in the movies, who cares?

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

I'd like to know what Donner would have done to end Superman II if given the chance, since he said they put it in Superman I instead of where it was originally intended to be. The reversing time thing just sucks in Superman II. It negates the entire fucking movie. Just stupid.

[RogueScribner]

Well, if they filmed the scripts as written Superman II would have ended that way, so I'm glad they moved the time travel thing into the first one. I think it sucks to make Superman that powerful (it opens up a lot of doors better left closed), but at least in the first movie all he undid was the disaster Lex caused. It seems in Donner's cut of SII the entire movie was undone. So what was the point?

[RogueScribner]

BTW, on the deleted scenes menu on the SR bonus disc there's a "WRONG!" easter egg. Spacey tries like 20 different versions. Kinda funny.

[Captain_Fucking_Magic]

You know the best part of the Donner cut is Clark Kent beating the crap out of a trucker he never met thanks to the time reversal.