THE FOUNTAIN

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

With 10 being the best and 1 being the worst, how would you rate The Fountain?

10
26
36%
9
11
15%
8
13
18%
7
8
11%
6
3
4%
5
5
7%
4
1
1%
3
0
No votes
2
0
No votes
1
3
4%
I'm waiting for DVD / TV
3
4%
I won't be seeing this in any lifetime
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 73

Postby havocSchultz on Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:39 pm

In this article up on the main page, in regards to seeing the film a 2nd time,
Mori wrote:It doesn’t surprise me at all that so many of the cynical fuckheads in our talkbacks (yes, ZombieSolutions, I’m calling you out, you miserable, joyless bastard) have rejected this film in such ugly ways.
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Postby Peven on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:22 pm

i saw that too, Havoc, and imo Mori's description of what ZZS has become is spot on.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:36 pm

Yeah, that made me laugh my ass off when I saw it.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:40 pm

havocSchultz wrote:In this article up on the main page, in regards to seeing the film a 2nd time,
Mori wrote:It doesn’t surprise me at all that so many of the cynical fuckheads in our talkbacks (yes, ZombieSolutions, I’m calling you out, you miserable, joyless bastard) have rejected this film in such ugly ways.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Postby darkjedijaina on Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:08 am

spoilers are in here if you haven't seen the film yet....

There were two trees in the middle of the garden of Eden, the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The Creator told Adam and Eve not to partake of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for they would surely die. The literal translation of the text is "dying you shall die". In other words, when Adam and Eve disobeyed the Creator they began to die. This caused a separation between the Created and the Creator. Because of this, the Creator hid the tree of life from them, lest they eat of it and remain in that state of separation for all eternity. However, once mortal death is achieved, the restoration and redemption occurs and the Created returns to the Creator.

The Fountain is a story about one man's quest to find the tree of life in order to save his beloved from the grave. However, Izzi begins to understand that "death is the road to awe", and she no longer fears death. She tries to relate this to Tommy, but he doesn't understand. He doesn't want to hear it. He is completely motivated by his fear of losing her and in doing so, he separates himself from her. Just as Adam ran and hid in the garden of Eden, so do we run and hide when faced with our mortal fate - death.

The Fountain weaves the three separate time periods into this one story. Only at the end does Tommy realize that the bondage he should have been saving Spain and himself from is the bondage of fear. If I may borrow a quote from Blade Runner, "Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave." Izzi understood this and that is why she told him she wasn't afraid anymore. Victor Hugo wrote, "It's nothing to die, it's frightful not to live."

When Izzi died, I noticed the hospital room number said 620. This is very interesting, because of the biblical symbolism behind those numbers. The number six is the number for mortal man, the natural world. The number twenty is the number for redemption. It's also interesting because the Mayan number system used base 20.

If I may veer for a moment here, the tree of life in kabbalah refers to the ten sefirot, or the ten divine radiances. Keter or Crown is the first of the ten sefirot and it corresponds to the superconscious realm of experience, it also suggests an aura surrounding one's consciousness. The number of crown is also 620. 620 refers to the full number of commandments found in the Torah. 613 were written, and 7 were oral. It is said that the secret of the 620 commandments is that from Keter are projected 620 pillars of light. If you read the graphic novel, you will notice that when Tommy finally accepts death, a stream of light pours from his head. I think this is very significant to the theme, "death is the road to awe".

This movie moved me. Words can't begin to describe how deeply it affected me. I think I cried throughout the majority of the movie, but they weren't just tears of sadness. They were tears of joy, too. Nothing excites me and gives me more joy than reaching Crown or that superconscious realm of experience. This movie did that for me. The beauty of this film isn't just in the cinematography, it's not just in the soundtrack. It's much deeper than that.

There's so much more to be said about this movie, but as Izzi spoke of her mind being full, so is mine. In closing, I will leave you with a teaching from Y'shua, "Unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it is never more than a grain of wheat. It abides alone. But, if it dies, it reproduces itself many times over. In the same way, anyone who holds onto his life will destroy it. But, if you let it go, reckless in your love, you'll have it forever - real and eternal."
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Postby silentbobafett on Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:53 am

Saw the Fountain Sunday night


Wow... jsut wow

I mean... wow

10/10, knocks Childeren of Men from the top spot! V for Vendetta and A Scanner Darkly move down as well!

Shit... I just went on the website and heard the music and wanted to cry my eyes out!

See this fucking film! NOW! :-)
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:54 am

That good? Really? Big call there by boba...

Can you explain without the use of spoilers?
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:18 pm

silentbobafett wrote:
Shit... I just went on the website and heard the music and wanted to cry my eyes out!

See this fucking film! NOW! :-)


The soundtrack is fantastic by the way! I highly recommend it. It's one of the most beautiful and emotional scores I have heard in a long time.

The only (small) downside is the trailer music isn't on it, but Clint Mansell wrote that there's talk of putting out a remix album that will include it.

I'm still annoyed they ran it out of town before I could see it again.
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Postby SupportiveScottishVillage on Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:22 pm

Aye, lass. I had to travel an hour away to see it, but I did it twice on account of it being so good and all.
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Postby Bob Samonkey on Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:26 pm

SupportiveScottishVillage wrote:Aye, lass. I had to travel an hour away to see it, but I did it twice on account of it being so good and all.


That is a long walk
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Postby SupportiveScottishVillage on Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:41 pm

Bob Poopflingius Maximus wrote:
SupportiveScottishVillage wrote:Aye, lass. I had to travel an hour away to see it, but I did it twice on account of it being so good and all.


That is a long walk


Aye, but well worth it m'friend.
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Postby John-Locke on Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:02 pm

Finally saw this tonight, on the third day of UK release, I’ve been waiting to see this film for a long time, I saw the teaser and wisely avoided the full trailer but I did accidentally browse Harrys review and got slightly spoiled in the first paragraph but of retrospect that actually helped me to form a pretty solid opinion of the film on first viewing and I think I disagree with him anyway.

To be honest I wasn’t expecting to be blown away or moved by the film, I was expecting a visceral experience interwoven into a classic tragic love story, Luckily for me I got both from the film, Although it’s still not my favourite film of 2006 I do think it was the best by a long stretch.

For me The Fountain is pure Cinema as art and as an exploration of the human condition. It was the first film in a long time (probably since Big Fish which has similar themes) that really gave me one of those “OH SHITâ€
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Postby Dark Knight on Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:11 pm

I really like your theories, made me want to watch the film again. Made real sense to me in other words.....
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Postby darkjedijaina on Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:14 pm

awesome, JL. I'm glad you got those OH SHIT moments. I so love them, too.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:16 pm

John-Locke wrote:Darren Aronofsky has so far made three films with the exact same theme at it’s core, that is people searching for something, π was about the search for the answer to the meaning of life as seen through the eyes of someone who drives themselves mad looking for it in Mathematics. Requiem For A Dream is about people searching for the key to happiness/a solution to their sadness, through the use of drugs and The Fountain is at its core about a man searching for a way to be immortal.


well said.
Personally, I'm an atheist in the voting booth and a theist in the movie theatre. I separate the morality of religion with the spirituality and solace of it. There is something boring about atheism.
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:18 pm

Excellent review, JL.

I like your take on the tree he plants at her grave *being* a seed from the South American tree. For me that's one of the major plot holes, particularly visually...it's pretty clear the tree is "her" tree but there's also alot of suggestion that it's the Tree of Life. So your theory ties it up.

In the graphic, the tree is even more vague, particularly at the end. I think the movie is alot easier to follow in that regard.
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Postby Leckomaniac on Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:23 pm

I saw this film for the third time on Saturday. I realized it would be pulled from theatres shortly and I needed to see it one more time on the big screen.

Words really do not do the film justice. It is so incredible on so many levels. It is a film that uses the media to its fullest extent. It utilizes both the visual and the audial to such an outstanding degree. The score moved you when it needed to, the silence allowed you to ponder the complexity of the moment, the bright moving images took you away to a place devoid of death, etc.

One of the things I noticed was how most of the scenes were set up with the lights making up the constellations. I noticed this in the lab scene, the candles in the Conquistador's tent. There may be others, but it just blew me away the attention to detail. It all added to this incredible experience that is The Fountain.

Three times I have seen it now and three times at least one person has walked out of the film. At a certain level, this film is not for everyone, but it is definitely one of the best films to be released in 2006 and it should be heralded as such. The Oscars, once again, really dropped the ball.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:35 am

Great piece of art, but for me, an average movie.

It's a very simple film that seems to have allusions to being something greater, and unfortunately lacked the characterisation that would've pulled me into the world created onscreen. Not just that, but I found it a very depressive piece that contradicted itself on a number of levels, including having the main proponent of hate and death actually nail the message straight on, making statements and staying neutral about the nature of the concept of the afterlife and showing death and rebirth, visually, as inherently painful. The concept of the soul being reborn doesn't make much sense to me when it contradicts itself by showing death as definite.

Even its perfection seemed too clinical, with the detail being SO affected it took away from much of the humanity. It feels like something crafted, which is no bad thing, but as a piece like this is more art than film, it has to be able to stand up to different objective opinion.

As such some of its realist conceits sat uncomfortably next to its statements on spirituality. Other than that, a beautiful film (if a little overly SFX'ed up) which is brave enough to actually make a statement, even if it's the equivalent of a painting that tries too hard to explain itself. Rather that sitting back and allowing its themes to be interpreted, I found it trying too hard to make sure I understood what was going on - a bit like looking at a Turner whilst wearing a tour headset. As such it doesn't quite hold up under scrutiny as much as I'd had hoped, and is also far more pessimistic than it likes to make out.

Also, much of the future world feels superfluous and tacked-on, showing a metaphorical journey where the modern-day drama came away through being far more powerful. The strange mixture of the clinical artistry and the grounding of the cancer story didn't mix well with me, and the roundabout structure tended to grate rather than allow me to immerse myself in any of the ricer fantasy. I wasn't looking FOR a complete fantasy, but came away feeling like I had watched an exercise rather than something with any real emotional core to it. A concept like life and death, plus the central plotline, is going to affect people in different ways. I felt for Jackman's modern persona but kept getting held back from getting into him too much, BECAUSE of the simplicity. It's like walking into a room not knowing anyone and being told one of them's going to die. You feel sorry for that person, and those affected, but ultimately when you leave the room you're not left with much because you don't have that connection.

I guess art impacts on people in different ways. I'm impressed by what's offered in The Fountain, but much like any piece of artwork people take away different things. I see a cold, contradictory, exercise beautifully presented whereas some people don't require as much from a movie in order to find an emotional core. I suppose having a friend suffer a horrific bereavement this weekend took the edge off of the film for me, but in all honesty, it's a film I genuinely by all accounts SHOULD love. Unfortunately the complete lack of connection to anyone within it merely makes it a beautiful oil painting, rather than a masterpiece.

edit - I'm going to be working on this review for my blog so it'll change as I think on it. I'll give it that, it IS a piece of art that I feel I should comment on. Whether or not it'll keep that importance in any way in a years time, for myself at least, we'll see.
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Postby Nordling on Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:46 am

[quote="John-Locke"]Finally saw this tonight, on the third day of UK release, I’ve been waiting to see this film for a long time, I saw the teaser and wisely avoided the full trailer but I did accidentally browse Harrys review and got slightly spoiled in the first paragraph but of retrospect that actually helped me to form a pretty solid opinion of the film on first viewing and I think I disagree with him anyway.

To be honest I wasn’t expecting to be blown away or moved by the film, I was expecting a visceral experience interwoven into a classic tragic love story, Luckily for me I got both from the film, Although it’s still not my favourite film of 2006 I do think it was the best by a long stretch.

For me The Fountain is pure Cinema as art and as an exploration of the human condition. It was the first film in a long time (probably since Big Fish which has similar themes) that really gave me one of those “OH SHITâ€
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Postby ThisIsTheGirl on Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:47 am

AtomicHyperbole wrote:I'll give it that, it IS a piece of art that I feel I should comment on.


...which is exactly why I compared the aftereffect of The Fountain to a Lynch movie; you come out of the cinema and are compelled to discuss what you have just seen, to see if other people interpreted it the same as you. I think I was about halfway through saying this to DogLips and Tony when you came bounding up dismissing that view and blathering on about your favourite movies, if memory serves. :?

For the record, I think I definitely need to see it again. There were moments during the movie when I felt almost overwhelmed with sadness - the score played a big part in that, and I thought all the performances were excellent, and the long-awaited FX-without-using-too-much-CGI were everything I'd hoped for. And yet....it didn't blow by mind in quite the way I was hoping. So today, my view is somewhere in between John-Locke's and Atomic's - I think Locke's theories about the plot are very close to my own, but I think Atomic is right to point out that some of the themes are a tad simplistic. I was particularly interested in this:

Atomic wrote:the main proponent of hate and death actually nail the message straight on


Were you talking about the Inquisition scene there? Because if you were, I totally agree: I was a bit confused about the fact that the film ultimately seemed to confirm a lot of the stuff said by the evil Inquisitor in the execution scene ("death frees all souls......trying to cheat death is heresy") - and I'm not sure where that left me in my interpretation of the film, which is why until I see it again I can't really make my mind up. It certainly felt like a very personal film from the director - and maybe the reason some people felt the characters were poorly developed was because this is about Darren Aronovsky coming to terms with death, rather than Izzy or Tommy.

My lunchbreak is well and truly over, so I'll hopefully be back online this evening - I've got a lot more to say about the movie.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:49 am

Actually, Mr Defensive ;), I agreed with you on Lynch and we discussed that further... may have got our wires crossed though...
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Postby tapehead on Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:53 am

AH, you started loudly criticising the movie before the credits had barely started - I've rarely seen such a passionate disavowal :lol: methinks you're the one defending...
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:54 am

I don't want to agree with tapehead, but he's so hot...
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Postby tapehead on Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:03 am

Good to see you there last night Ribbons, you're not a bad looker yourself
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:09 am

Thanks! I spent an extra half an hour in front of the mirror, just for you. Glad to hear it paid off.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:10 am

While all these reviews are all bimmn' good an' all, one thing they all fail to explain, is why on' blimmin' earth this film was even called 'The FOUNTAIN'! I saw 'ardly any blinkin' reference to a soddin' Fountain in the whole focking film.

Oh, and yes, I liked it a great deal. But it'll take a lot more than this to make me be REALLY moved or feel that much more for the film than I actually did.

Maybe on the second viewing.

Oh and another thing, this might be my imagination or I'm completely seeing things, so I'm only vague on this assumption, but when Hugh Jackman is looking for his ring when he first loses it, isn't that a shot that I saw, where you see what looks like a big massive out of focus close up of the ring right in front of the camera right against the background action of him trying to find it? Or something that just looked like it? Am I the only one blind enough to see something like this...?
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:21 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:While all these reviews are all bimmn' good an' all, one thing they all fail to explain, is why on' blimmin' earth this film was even called 'The FOUNTAIN'! I saw 'ardly any blinkin' reference to a soddin' Fountain in the whole focking film.


From Capone's interview with Aronofsky...

Capone: If you don't mind answering the question, what is 'The Fountain'? What is it really? Is it God? Is it science? Is it medicine? Or, is it all of those things?

Darren Aronosky: Let me see if you can answer it for me. What does a fountain do?

C: Any fountain? It brings forth water, in some capacity.

DA: It brings forth water. Where does the water go when it comes out?

C: It depends on what kind of fountain it is, but normally the water re-circulates around.

DA: There you go. It circulates around and then what happens?

C: What happens?

DA: What happens to the fountain as it keeps circulating?

C: It gets rusty eventually.

DA: To me, it doesn't get rusty.

C: Is there more than that?

DA: There's nothing more than that. It just keeps going. And, then you think about the Tree of Life, which is a certain type of Fountain of Youth. The Tree of Life grows up, up, branches come out, has leaves, the leaves fall down, they go back into the earth, come back up through the tree, come on out, and there's the leaves.

C: This is sounding suspiciously like the circle of life from THE LION KING.

DA: [Laughs] But, I think a fountain is a symbol of the circle of life in many ways.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:28 am

Thanks Ribbons.

Yeah, thought it was something along those lines. Fountain of Life, etc. Throughout the film I was expecting something more literal though. Maybe ahem, kids, cover your ears and eyes... maybe SPOILEEEERSSS(!!!!!) at the end when the Sebulba is reached and both bubbles burst and there is transcendment, this is an example of The Fountain springing the next stage of a life's existence.

Thanks for the back row fountain springing session last night too.

Oh, and stay away from my girl.
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:47 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Oh, and stay away from my girl.


hehehehe. I was waiting for that one...
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:50 am

These are just like sexual traps aren't they?

Kinkeee.
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Postby darkjedijaina on Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:28 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:While all these reviews are all bimmn' good an' all, one thing they all fail to explain, is why on' blimmin' earth this film was even called 'The FOUNTAIN'! I saw 'ardly any blinkin' reference to a soddin' Fountain in the whole focking film.


As I mentioned in my review, there are a lot of kabbalistic undertones in this movie. There's so much symbolism that so many people don't get, I don't even get the fullness of it. I think it's one of those films that you learn more about with each time you watch it. Each time you look at it you see a different facet, a different revelation and each one is more beautiful than the last. At least, that's how I think of it.

As far as why it was called The Fountain, I think there's a lot of kabbalistic symbolism involved in that also. I've done some research on the subject, even before I saw the film, so that's why I find it so interesting and intriguing. It's about where I'm at and where I'm going. But, I digress.

In Hebrew, the Tree of Life is called Etz HaChayim. Now, the kabbalists believe that each hebrew letter also has a secret meaning. With that in mind, the letters that make up Etz HaChayim are ayin, zayin, hey, chet, yod, yod, and mem. Ayin means restoration, zayin means understanding, hey means revelation, chet means life and a new beginning, yod itself refers to the infinite point, and the double yod refers to death/life and completion. Mem is the fountain of wisdom. So, the Tree of Life itself brings about restoration and completion. It brings us back to the Garden of Eden.

Now, in Hebrew, fountain is made up of the letters mem, qof, vav, and resh. Mem again is the fountain of wisdom, qof refers to redemption, vav is the connection between spirit and flesh, and resh is the beginning. So, the fountain is the beginning point of the connection between spirit and flesh. It's the same place/same thing as the Tree of Life. That's my belief, anyway.

Ultimately, I think that's what the film is about. It's about redemption and restoration, and the only way we can get there is through death. But I think that it's not just speaking of the physical death, but also of a death to selfish desires.

I like to think that Tommy and Izzy are Tomas and Isabelle reincarnated. When Izzy died, she had accepted it. She surrendered to it. Tommy never did. That's why 500 years later he still has found no peace. He's tried everything, obviously. And he is still haunted by her. Only once he accepts death and surrenders his selfish desires is he able to be reunited with her again.
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Postby Doc Holliday on Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:37 pm

Aronofsky did an interview for the main page where he said not to think of a fountain literally, but more that metaphorically the Tree itself was the titular waterpiece.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:41 pm

tapehead wrote:AH, you started loudly criticising the movie before the credits had barely started - I've rarely seen such a passionate disavowal :lol: methinks you're the one defending...


Not criticising, admiring the brave use of man-chowder.
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Postby tapehead on Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:51 pm

AtomicHyperbole wrote:
tapehead wrote:AH, you started loudly criticising the movie before the credits had barely started - I've rarely seen such a passionate disavowal :lol: methinks you're the one defending...


Not criticising, admiring the brave use of man-chowder.

Sounded like you were dismissing the film as a whole, but why not share that little gem of wisdom with everyone? It goes something like 'it's white! it's liquid! It Must Be Spunk!' right? Thats an ambitious movie, alright.


@DJJ, I really enjoyed reading your insights.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:03 pm

I can't tell if you're having a go at me! NNNNG!
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Postby tapehead on Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:10 pm

I was just expecting to see that included in your review - as it was a big feature of your views on the film last night, not having a go, just making fun. Now I'm done.
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Postby darkjedijaina on Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:22 pm

tapehead wrote:@DJJ, I really enjoyed reading your insights.


thanks. glad someone did. :D
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Postby TonyWilson on Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:16 pm

SPOILERS



obsessive self destruction???? You fucking DOUCHE, you missed the enitre fucking point of the movie. Death IS life, destruction IS creation, and the inquisition is a metaphor for cancer.


Fuck beans





END SPOILERS
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Postby The Ginger Man on Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:43 pm

Well, I'm still at a loss as to the affect this movie had on so many of you. Not in regards to its composition, cinematography, score or even meaning....but just the emotions it inspired. B/C I felt nothing when I walked out of The Fountain. Straight-laced, across-the-board, apathy.

I had my own interpritation of the story...it's actually quite close to JL's (excellently written review, by the way). But at the end, I just didn't care. Tom and Izz were so blank to me that their plight never touched me. If the film had spent another 30 minutes developing them as characters, rather than (as I saw them) Examples 2 and 5 from the "Stages of Grief" handbook...maybe then I'd have felt something...who knows.

Now the lady friend faults me for this, somewhat. She points out that I value character over meaning in my stories...which is very, very true. And maybe that's the key to my feelings of meh.

Glad you guys got something out of it. But count me among the very dissapointed.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:46 pm

Still haven't seen the movie yet, but I almost always agree with Ginger on everything...

Uh oh... :?
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Postby darkjedijaina on Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:49 pm

different strokes, man. it's definitely a movie that speaks to different people on different terms.

i saw the movie two times and i left the theatre crying my eyes out both times. but, for me, it wasn't so much about the feelings for the characters, it was about the beauty of finally getting to that place where you're able to let go of all the shit you've been holding onto your entire life. it was about freedom. i suppose it spoke so deeply to me because i've been dealing with those issues of late.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:57 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:Still haven't seen the movie yet, but I almost always agree with Ginger on everything...

Uh oh... :?


Nah, I think you'll actually like it, MW. While our agreement has been eerily similar in the past...I've always been on the side of dark, while you've been on the side of light. So even if you agree with me on the characters being blank, I see you finding things in the film that really move you.

Example:
"The Fountain has a beautiful message about life/death/rebirth, shown when Tom realizes he must die to see Izzy again.

Whedon's Response: I can see myself struggling with the same fears and emotions were I to lose the woman I loved. A very true and beautiful moment.

Ginger's Response: So what? My Crazy Aunt thinks the same thing. That's why she can't wait to bite-it so she can see all her dead cats again.

:mrgreen:
Last edited by The Ginger Man on Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby TonyWilson on Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:58 pm

See, I found the economy with which the 4 main characters are drawn to be part of what made it so great. Any more specific and you lose the transient flimsy nature of life.
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Postby Adam Balm on Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:59 pm

The Ginger Man wrote: But at the end, I just didn't care. Tom and Izz were so blank to me that their plight never touched me. If the film had spent another 30 minutes developing them as characters, rather than (as I saw them) Examples 2 and 5 from the "Stages of Grief" handbook...maybe then I'd have felt something...who knows.

Now the lady friend faults me for this, somewhat. She points out that I value character over meaning in my stories...which is very, very true. And maybe that's the key to my feelings of meh.

Glad you guys got something out of it. But count me among the very dissapointed.


Another criticism this movie shares with 2001.
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Postby TonyWilson on Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:01 pm

And for the reocord, this may be the first time me an AdamBalm have agreed about a movie.
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Postby The Ginger Man on Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:01 pm

TonyWilson wrote:See, I found the economy with which the 4 main characters are drawn to be part of what made it so great. Any more specific and you lose the transient flimsy nature of life.


But its that emphasis on the transient flimsy nature that made the big moments equally transient and pointless for me. But again, and I do admit this point, different strokes for so many different folks.
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Postby TonyWilson on Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:03 pm

Well it was enough to know that Tommy loves Izzy deeply with all his heart, Hugh Jackman conveys that beautifully in my opinion, I can understand the feelings he has, I didn't need anymore detail to make me feel anymore for him or Izzy.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:03 pm

The Ginger Man wrote:Well, I'm still at a loss as to the affect this movie had on so many of you. Not in regards to its composition, cinematography, score or even meaning....but just the emotions it inspired. B/C I felt nothing when I walked out of The Fountain. Straight-laced, across-the-board, apathy.

I had my own interpritation of the story...it's actually quite close to JL's (excellently written review, by the way). But at the end, I just didn't care. Tom and Izz were so blank to me that their plight never touched me. If the film had spent another 30 minutes developing them as characters, rather than (as I saw them) Examples 2 and 5 from the "Stages of Grief" handbook...maybe then I'd have felt something...who knows.

Now the lady friend faults me for this, somewhat. She points out that I value character over meaning in my stories...which is very, very true. And maybe that's the key to my feelings of meh.

Glad you guys got something out of it. But count me among the very dissapointed.


Utterly with you in every way, Ginger. I think that genuinely sums up what I felt watching it. I didn't feel emotional about it at all, but I wouldn't say I don't value meaning. However, I do think the themes it deals with in its depressive malaise have different effects on people... but then, sometimes I feel its quite easy to provoke an emotional response. It depends on the receptor, naturally, and some people are more easily reactive to certain articles. Not that this makes them weaker, as I'm not making a value judgement here...
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:04 pm

The Ginger Man wrote:
MasterWhedon wrote:Still haven't seen the movie yet, but I almost always agree with Ginger on everything...

Uh oh... :?


Nah, I think you'll actually like it, MW. While our agreement has been eerily similar in the past...I've always been on the side of dark, while you've been on the side of light. So even if you agree with me on the characters being blank, I see you finding things in the film that really move you.

Example:
"The Fountain has a beautiful message about life/death/rebirth, shown when Tom realizes he must die to see Izzy again.

Whedon's Response: I can see myself struggling with the same fears and emotions were I to lose the woman I loved. A very true and beautiful moment.

Ginger's Response: So what? My Crazy Aunt thinks the same thing. That's why she can't wait to bite-it so she can see all her dead cats again.

:mrgreen:

HAHAHA!! Too true! :D
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:05 pm

TonyWilson wrote:Well it was enough to know that Tommy loves Izzy deeply with all his heart, Hugh Jackman conveys that beautifully in my opinion, I can understand the feelings he has, I didn't need anymore detail to make me feel anymore for him or Izzy.


Like I said before, for me it was like walking into a room and being introduced to a man and his wife with cancer. They're obviously upset. I get a little emotional about it, I don't know them, it's unfair. But when I left that room, I only came away with an impression...

I think that kinda sums it up in some sense.
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