David Fincher's ZODIAC

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

With 10 being the best and 1 being the worst, how would you rate Zodiac?

10
9
20%
9
12
27%
8
14
31%
7
7
16%
6
1
2%
5
0
No votes
4
0
No votes
3
1
2%
2
0
No votes
1
0
No votes
I'm waiting for DVD / TV
0
No votes
David Fincher?! Fuck that! Gimme Brett Ratner's Zodiac!
1
2%
 
Total votes : 45

Postby Vegeta on Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:07 pm

Zodiac was many things... an amazingly acted, historically accurate crime drama would be among them.
It actually reminded me of JFK in many ways (minus Stone's historical liberties ofcourse).
There was just alot of going over evidence, theories galore, and investigation.
The two problems I had were it's length and lack of character development. But, I suppose this
type of film isn't about character development. The only characters we get to really know is
Ruffalo, Gylenhall (sp?), and Downey to some extent. The rest just seem to breeze in and
out of the film with token info. This isn't the type of film imo that you need to see often, just every
now and then, as it was kind of draining. Regardless this is an excellent movie and I highly recommend it to
those who are into mysteries.

Vegeta gives Zodiac 4 out of 5 punches (or an 8 on this scale):
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Postby justcheckin on Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:23 pm

I saw this last night. It was really good. I give it a 9 out of 10. It was a long movie but really didn't seem that long. It was worth the 8 bucks.
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Postby Vegeta on Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:25 pm

Jesus, only five zoners went and saw Zodiac this weekend?

:oops: Shame :oops:
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Postby justcheckin on Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:08 pm

According to the poll, it looks like 6 zoners...
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Postby Vicarious on Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:02 am

I really can't wait for break to start at the end of this week so I can see this again at least twice more in theaters. I'm still fucking buzzed from this movie.
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Postby Jesus Christ on Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:35 pm

So, who out there is convinced Arthur Leigh Allen was the Zodiac?
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Postby angry alter ego on Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:07 pm

Definitely worth checking out.

And by the movie's conclusion "Lee" is portrayed as the only obvious suspect.

As for whether or not he was actually the Zodiac...who knows...regardless, he was a seriously creepy dude.
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Postby bamf on Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:29 am

At just over two and a half hours long the experience of watching Zodiac can be compared to how the investigators felt when they looked at a calendar and saw that it was the 80s and they were still looking for a killer from the 60’s. That in its self is not surprising, we know murders go unsolved and create ready content for Court TV and CBS mellow dramas. The Zodiac killer made his mark by adding some flair to his alleged crimes and if youtube had existed then, maybe he just would have been another guy making shorts with shadow puppets. Exposure is what this killer wanted, exposure derived from fear. David Fincher returns to the serial killer director chair with his anti-thesis of Seven showing how you don’t need to kill someone to destroy them.


I found the pacing served well to the story, and when a character is lost for 20 minutes you quickly understand why. This is not the crime story that leads from one “By George, we got it!â€
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:26 pm

This movie was astonishing. From the careful recreation of San Francisco gone by, to the methodical "All the President's Men" style pacing, to the incredible acting turns by Downey, Gyllenhall and that other bland dude I don't even really like. Fincher did an incredible job on this movie. It feels so personal and epic.

The only part I didn't really "get" was what felt like an unnecessary scene with the organist. In fact, the whole Rick Marshall thing was interesting, but a little difficult to follow and I asked myself upon leaving the theater... how come he was never found.

But wow, what a film. Fincher definitely redeems himself after the mediocrity (albeit technically superb) Panic Room.

I love seeing movies like this. Such a fucking rush.
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Postby Ribbons on Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:45 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:This movie was astonishing. From the careful recreation of San Francisco gone by, to the incredible acting turns by Downey, Gyllenhall and that other bland dude I don't even really like.


Adrien Brody...?
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:31 pm

Haha... no that Mark Ruffalo dude. Him and Brody and the other boring bland fuck from Jarhead.... uh. I can't remember his name either. But they can all just disappear.
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Postby tylerfulltilt on Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:58 pm

I saw zodiac today.

I'm already pegging it as one of the noms for best pic, best director, best adapted screenplay, and best cinematography in '07

I'll try to write a more in-depth review later on but I'll go ahead and say this. the scene with the two people that are tied up and stabbed at that lake will go down as one of my favorite scenes in any movie at all ever.

9/10
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:22 pm

Saw Zodiac last night and friggin' loved everything about it. Just an absolutely superb film that unfolds naturally before you. It sucks you in and makes you twist and turn with its characters. Even with a more "subdued" style, Fincher still knows exactly where to put a camera.

Great, great film. 9/10
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Postby tylerfulltilt on Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:11 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:Saw Zodiac last night and friggin' loved everything about it. Just an absolutely superb film that unfolds naturally before you. It sucks you in and makes you twist and turn with its characters. Even with a more "subdued" style, Fincher still knows exactly where to put a camera.

Great, great film. 9/10


The scene where the three detectives finally interview leigh allen was a great example of fincher's camera placement.

fucking great movie.
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Postby MasterWhedon on Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:15 pm

tylerfulltilt wrote:The scene where the three detectives finally interview leigh allen was a great example of fincher's camera placement.

Yeah, usually I hate when characters look and speak right into camera (when they're not "breaking the fourth wall") a la anything by Jonathan Demme, but I thought it worked brilliantly here. Fincher ramps the tension up, puts you right in that space... and suddenly you're there, being talked to, feeling the creepiness of the moment. Great stuff.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:31 pm

not much to add, 'cept I gave it the Se7en.

first two acts were astoundingly well done; the first being a build of Hithcockian tension, any focus that wasn't on the major players was a death waiting to happen, the second working well off what came before it by being funnier than the subject matter would leave one to expect.

It didn't quite fall apart in the third, if only for the scene with Graysmith and Toschi in the diner. It's just that the descent of Graysmith didn't do it for me, what with the tension being meaningless, knowing full well no one else is gonna bite it (specially the author!).

Not being the biggest fan of procedurals, it still sucked me in.

He may be a control freak, but Fincher can continue his upwards of 70 takes ways so long as the performances are this good.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:44 am

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:not much to add, 'cept I gave it the Se7en.

first two acts were astoundingly well done; the first being a build of Hithcockian tension, any focus that wasn't on the major players was a death waiting to happen, the second working well off what came before it by being funnier than the subject matter would leave one to expect.

It didn't quite fall apart in the third, if only for the scene with Graysmith and Toschi in the diner. It's just that the descent of Graysmith didn't do it for me, what with the tension being meaningless, knowing full well no one else is gonna bite it (specially the author!).

Not being the biggest fan of procedurals, it still sucked me in.

He may be a control freak, but Fincher can continue his upwards of 70 takes ways so long as the performances are this good.


I am listening to the soundtrack right now! And now I am bothered by you. Anyone who gives this anything less than 11/10 can't be my friend. I can not abide people who do not share my opinions!
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:35 am

burlivesleftnut wrote:I can not abide people who do not share my opinions!


the fact that you can abide anybody surprises me...
Personally, I'm an atheist in the voting booth and a theist in the movie theatre. I separate the morality of religion with the spirituality and solace of it. There is something boring about atheism.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:10 am

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:I can not abide people who do not share my opinions!


the fact that you can abide anybody surprises me...


Excellent volley.
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Postby magicmonkey on Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:16 am

15 - Love. Burlives to serve.
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Postby tapehead on Mon May 28, 2007 7:07 am

Having just seen this last night, I'm full of admiration for the mastery of this piece and the ideas in it, although it doesn't seem like I'm going to in the majority on this point, judging by most of the reviews above.
The three films I kept referring to watch it were Fincher's own Se7en, Spielberg's Munich, and Spike Lee's Summer of Sam, all for obvious reasons; Se7en is Fincher's first work concerned with a serial killer, and it seems obvious, in retropect, that he must have researched cases like the Zodiac for that film. Stylistically, Se7en is a triumph, but I think the maturity and restraint, as well as respect for the subject matter in Zodiac makes it a more profound film.
The recreation of late Sixties, early Seventies San Francisco in such bewildering detail is just stunning; so many of the soaring nightscapes must involve huge amounts of digital compositing and cgi to 'devolve' the landscape back in time.
I'd be really interested for instance to know which building it is we see built in the timelapse shot in the later third of the movie - just astonishing, and easily the equal of Spielberg's work in Munich; the difference being of course, that Fincher has achieved this environment through a HD Viper lens, rather than going back to the colour schemes, stocks and cameras of the Seventies. He also relies heavily on period music; for instance Dovan's Hurdy Gurdy Man in the opening depiction of the Killer's first known murder, finds a chilling psychotic edge in the trippy vocals and rocking drums I'd never heard before.
Unfortunately I watched it in an old-fashioned film projection, and I'm beginning to be frustrated by a shuddering, stepping quality in the camera moves, pans and tilts that these HD works have when they are transferred - and the projection of Zodiac I watched tonight suffered markedly from this trait. Otherwise the muted colour scheme full of greys and browns is fantastically well suits to the film's tone, and Fincher still has ample opportunity to work his favourite baroque angles and movements.

The cast is also perhaps the best, and certainly the largest ensemble that Fincher has assembled; unfeasibly handsome, but nevertheless the unlikely pairing of Gyllenhaal and Downey Jr, and the touchingly simpatico pair of Ruffalo and Edwards (their first scenes around the cab driver's murder had me in stitches with their dead-pan squabbling) provide much of the story's dynamic, managing to engross me still in the moments where the case went nowhere and the leads were getting colder. The focus on the actual investigation works better for me than Spike Lee's look at mid-seventies life in New York when Son of Sam (named for his similarities to the Zodiac) gripped communities in fear. Only a few times does Zodiac rely upon the mainstays of police procedurals, but when it does, it manages to make it riveting.

I'm not sure I was completely sold on Graysmith's descent into obsession - Gylenhaal is a good actor and immensely likeable, but this is the second time, including Jarhead that I have found his performance a little underplayed, perhaps not quite enough depth to his portrayal, and a little too much reliance in the perception of him as the earnest boy scout.

It's this factor that stopped me from scoring this highter than an eight - supporting characters played by Brian Cox, Elias Koteas and John Carroll Lynch as the 'man most likely' were all spot on, and even Chloe Sevigny managed quite a good deal with fuck all to work with without betraying the subtlety the role as Graysmith's wife demanded.

I almost, at certain moments, thought I might have preferred staying with Downey's Avery as he descended into drugs and disease rather than Gyllenhaal's dogged but slightly dull portrayal. However the last half hour hit the mark again, and I even enjoyed the short sequence in the Cinema organist's house where Graysmith's mania creeps close to hysteria, and for me, that moment where he confronts the probable killer, and that look they share - just right.
No dramatic finale, none of the over-the-top showdown of Fincher's earlier Se7en, (which right now, I think Zodiac surpasses), just a smouldering, near perfect, resolution.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Mon May 28, 2007 7:16 am

i could've sworn I read that already...
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Postby tapehead on Mon May 28, 2007 7:19 am

yeah, I had a few things to add, there were no posts in the thread.... I'm a shameless attention whore.... you know how these things happen...
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Postby John-Locke on Mon May 28, 2007 7:21 am

You know, I didn't even remember it was shot on HD when I watched it yesterday, it really looked like film to me, you are right about there being some shuddering though, I definitely noticed that.

The film is a bit of a slog to get through, it's not that it's too long it's just long and feels even longer.

Not really got anything to add that hasn't been said already, it's a very good film, technically brilliant with an outstanding cast.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Mon May 28, 2007 7:30 am

tapehead wrote:I'd be really interested for instance to know which building it is we see built in the timelapse shot in the later third of the movie


I think it's the Transamerica Pyramid.
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Postby tapehead on Mon May 28, 2007 7:32 am

I wasn't sure about the length - I know the story meandered a touch at some points, but I was happy to go with it as part of Fincher's recreation of '70's San Francisco. Best HD movie I've seen so far, both in terms of style and content, really want to see a digi projection.

Keepcoolbutcare wrote:
tapehead wrote:I'd be really interested for instance to know which building it is we see built in the timelapse shot in the later third of the movie


I think it's the Transamerica Pyramid.


That's it! Just a stunning shot - as a device to eloquently show the passage of specific historical time, as reflected of changing architectural styles, and as, I imagine, a sophisticated combination of cgi and compositing combined in HD - some of the most subtle and naturalistic effects I think I've seen.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:15 am

burlivesleftnut wrote:I am listening to the soundtrack right now!


So Zodiac finally came out in my neck of the woods, just watched it yesterday. What can I say? I had an awesome movie-going weekend, having watched Pirates 3 and Zodiac. I rate Zodiac an 8/10... brilliant execution, definitely an example of Fincher's maturing as a filmmaker. Solid performances all around, this the "two" of Downey's comeback of sorts (the first being last year's brilliant A Scanner Darkly). I dig Gyllenhaal, and Ruffalo played Toschi's quirks pretty nicely.

I think the music was pretty awesome, but I only really "noticed" the opening song and the song that played over the end credits. I'm sure the stuff in between was really great too, but I was completely mesmerized by the film and can't say that I consciously remember the film's music. Which brings me to my questions... anyone know what the opening and closing songs were? And how is the soundtrack, over all?
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Postby Leckomaniac on Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:32 am

This is on my list of films to see. I missed its theatrical run because of procrastination, but I plan on remedying that as soon as I can. I can't wait.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:41 am

Leckomaniac wrote:This is on my list of films to see. I missed its theatrical run because of procrastination, but I plan on remedying that as soon as I can. I can't wait.


Dude, you missed out! It's in 2.35:1, which is a real joy to watch in the cinema!
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Postby tapehead on Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:45 am

Pacino86845 wrote:
burlivesleftnut wrote:I am listening to the soundtrack right now!


So Zodiac finally came out in my neck of the woods, just watched it yesterday. What can I say? I had an awesome movie-going weekend, having watched Pirates 3 and Zodiac. I rate Zodiac an 8/10... brilliant execution, definitely an example of Fincher's maturing as a filmmaker. Solid performances all around, this the "two" of Downey's comeback of sorts (the first being last year's brilliant A Scanner Darkly). I dig Gyllenhaal, and Ruffalo played Toschi's quirks pretty nicely.

I think the music was pretty awesome, but I only really "noticed" the opening song and the song that played over the end credits. I'm sure the stuff in between was really great too, but I was completely mesmerized by the film and can't say that I consciously remember the film's music. Which brings me to my questions... anyone know what the opening and closing songs were? And how is the soundtrack, over all?


Opening track was Three Dog Night, 'Easy to be Hard' then, and unforgettably, for me, it was Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man' playing over the first murder scene. Actually can't remember the credits track off hand, but I've actually found those first two on old vinyl since seeing the movie, and will buy the ST soon - also Marvin Gaye's 'Inner City Blues' and Sly and the Family Stone's 'Wanna take you Higher' featured in there somewhere, as well as some Miles Davis and John Coltrane.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:51 am

tapehead wrote: unforgettably, for me, it was Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man' playing over the first murder scene.


I think that's the one I meant... didn't even notice a song change! At the end of the first murder scene, I was like "wow that was brutal, and this song is awesome!"
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Postby tapehead on Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:21 am

tapehead wrote:He also relies heavily on period music; for instance Dovan's Hurdy Gurdy Man in the opening depiction of the Killer's first known murder, finds a chilling psychotic edge in the trippy vocals and rocking drums I'd never heard before.


ahem - me toos!


I worked so hard on that review! *sobs*
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Postby Pacino86845 on Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:27 am

I read it!!! kinda... *runs*
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Postby tapehead on Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:39 am

*makes note not to read Pacino's next review* if he ever writes one
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Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:24 pm

The DVD is out July 24 but doesn't appear to be especially tricked out so I fear the inevitable double-dip. I'd like to know if the disc was mastered from the digital elements.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:13 pm

Ok so I bought the soundtrack and the song that plays over the end credits (the first song) is also Hurdy Gurdy Man. Awesome soundtrack!
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Postby tapehead on Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:23 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:the song that plays over the end credits (the first song) is also Hurdy Gurdy Man.
!?
Would you look at that - The Zodiac ST has it's own myspace, with the tracks listed in the order they appear in the film, starting with Three Dog Night 'Easy to be Hard', followed by Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man', despite the founder's insistence of the contrary.

http://myspace.com/zodiacsoundtrack
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Postby Pacino86845 on Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:05 pm

tapehead wrote:
Pacino86845 wrote:the song that plays over the end credits (the first song) is also Hurdy Gurdy Man.
!?
Would you look at that - The Zodiac ST has it's own myspace, with the tracks listed in the order they appear in the film, starting with Three Dog Night 'Easy to be Hard', followed by Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man', despite the founder's insistence of the contrary.

http://myspace.com/zodiacsoundtrack


The END credits dude...
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Postby tapehead on Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:13 pm

yep - the second song dude...
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Postby Pacino86845 on Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:20 am

tapehead wrote:yep - the second song dude...


What the...?

Look, I don't know what you're trying to pull here, Winslow, but this is what I meant:

In an above comment, I mention how the song over the murder scene, as well as one of the songs that plays over the credits at the end of the movie, got my attention and I was wondering what they were... all I'm trying to say is that it's "Hurdy Gurdy Man" in both cases, k?
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Postby tapehead on Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:57 am

no need for name-calling, sorry to make an issue of it - you didn't seem to be receiving the message I was sending - (I've re-read the posts carefully and that's still kinda how it seems, mainly because you keep referring to the second song as the first song), so chill out - this started with me trying to help with a query you put out there.

Since you called me winslow, I ain't gonna call you 'founder' no more, that's right, you heard me... you're just Pacino.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:06 am

tapehead wrote:no need for name-calling, sorry to make an issue of it - you didn't seem to be receiving the message I was sending - (I've re-read the posts and that's still kinda how it seems, mainly because you keep referring to the second song as the first song), so chill out - this started we me trying to help with a query you put out there.


Sorry man, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I wasn't being serious, mainly trying to explain myself better... so, no need to be callin' me a queer, k? :)?
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Postby tapehead on Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:32 am

u toob has the actual broadcasts of Zodiac on tv - Society really learnt a lot about how to deal with serial killers with this guy - ie don't put them on tv or let them write their own puzzles or editorials for the newspaper.
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Postby Maui on Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:05 pm

First of all, I can't believe that such an oustanding movie only has a thread of 2 pages long, I'm dumbfounded. :shock:

I watched this last night, sure I'm the last one to get off the boat. WOW!!!

It's great to see Mark Ruffalo in a movie other than some fluffy romance. He was superb in this. Re. Robert Downey Jr. if it wasn't for some of his personal life's shortcomings, he'd be a much bigger star than he is. I've always loved this guy, he's an incredible actor and it was super to see him playing the part of Avery in this film. His portrayal of an inquisitive editor to washed up/troubled alcoholic was brilliant. Jake Gyllenhaal - WOW! I haven't seen him in too many films, but he really shone in this.

Near the end of the movie when he finally gets to have his face to face contact with the Zodiac in the hardware store, it simply takes your breath away. He was outstanding in this.

Chloe Sevigny - I've always liked her, a great actress indeed. I'd like to see her in more stuff, she really is quite good. It was deeply moving to watch her role of the wife who was slowly losing her husband to his Zodiac obsession. She played it to a tee.

Lastly, this was all filmed in the bay area. This is where the Zodiac killings took place. All the towns, places - I've been too. Lake Berryessa, Vallejo, San Francisco, so many familiar scenes - I like that. I find that with alot of Clint Eastwood's movies too. He films here in the Bay Area - many of his Dirty Harry movies. It's just added fun when you live where the flick was filmed.

This movie was comparable to Silence of the Lambs - same calibre of movie. Which is a very good thing, as I rank Silence of the Lambs very, very high!!! I loved Zodiac and it will soon belong on my DVD shelf! It didn't seem like 2 hours of viewing at all. I was completely enthralled in this flick from beginning to the very end!!!



:)
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:45 pm

I watched this last night as well. I wrote in my Movie Journal that I think it will get Oscar nods for editing and direction. Cinematography was great too. Some people mention Downey as the standout, and he may get props, but I thought Gyllenhaal was better. Downey was better in Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang in my opinion. I gave it a solid 8/10.
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Postby Fried Gold on Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:48 pm

I thought Mark Ruffalo & Anthony Edwards were the stand outs, especially Ruffalo.
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Postby Maui on Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:48 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:I watched this last night as well. I wrote in my Movie Journal that I think it will get Oscar nods for editing and direction. Cinematography was great too. Some people mention Downey as the standout, and he may get props, but I thought Gyllenhaal was better. Downey was better in Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang in my opinion. I gave it a solid 8/10.


Where's your journal? I'd like to read your thoughts on this. :wink:
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Postby Maui on Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:50 pm

Fried Gold wrote:I thought Mark Ruffalo & Anthony Edwards were the stand outs, especially Ruffalo.



Gyllenhaal, Downey Jr., Ruffalo.

In that order. :)
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Postby Mr. Nice Gaius on Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:29 pm

I actually saw ZODIAC in the theater by myself because two of my buddies (who wanted to see a matinee that day) couldn't be convinced to see this movie. Later, when we met for drinks, they asked me if it was any good. I basically responded by saying it was the best film I'd seen since CHILDREN OF MEN. They both replied in perfect unison: "Really?!".

I think it's a fantastic film and a great period piece. It's good to see some like-minded thoughts on it here. 8)
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Postby Conroy420 on Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:37 pm

I got this the day it came out on DVD.

Great movie and definitly the best film I've seen so far in 2007.

I loved everything about it. I can really see Fincher getting an oscar nod for this. He is amazing.

The preformances were outstanding. Really great stuff.
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