The Zone

by **Lord Voldemoo** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:54 pm

An outsider's perspective:

I just read through the thread so I know I'm gonna catch hate (err...no, i mean DEBATE) on this, but MW's posts all those months ago sum up exactly how I feel about this project...meh.

I read AB's post about CM outselling Supes in the 1940's. If someone creates a time machine in which this film will be shown in the 1940's then great, otherwise it's wholly irrelevant. I'm certain there are CM fans out there if this thread is any indication, but if you're making Green Lantern a B or C list hero (which I think is about right) then CM is at around a "G" range in the current age. Poll people in here about CM and I think most will be where Athena and RS and I are, which is a vague familiarity with the character based on some limited exposure in comic books and a hazy memory of the cartoon. How much of CM do you think "regular people" remember? Dennis compared CM now to the X-Men prior to the first X-Men movie. That is, quite honestly, a laughable comparison.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a jerk or a naysayer. I love comic book movies. If they make a good one here (or release it at an opportune time ala Ghost Rider) it could do very, very well. I really hope it does, but I wouldn't count on box office numbers being driven by demand from the public for a CM movie, unless the DC limited series' blow up. It'll have to be driven by good writing, good acting, good marketing and word of mouth.

by **SilentBobX** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:18 pm

I hope this movie gets its proverbial red cheesed ass moving. I want it. I have no shame in saying this to me would be a thousand times better than last summer's Supermope. I don't want some namby pamby Superpuss who can't get over Lois.

The entire movie disappointed me greatly. If they do Captain Marvel and the Marvel family well, I'm there. Just have Cap and Black Adam throwing down in the middle of a big city, throwing cars, superpunches, etc. How hard is that??

by **buster00** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:19 pm

I dunno about "G" range, Lord. Captain Marvel may not be as widely utilized in the comics these days, but I think he's at least as recognizable to mainstream audiences as Green Lantern. I'd say "B" range.

The real catch, IMO, is that most of those mainstream folks think that the character's name is Shazam. However, I think a good many people know what the magic word means and represents. If the phrase "Captain Marvel" is repeated enough times in the trailers, then Mr. and Ms. Moviegoing Sheep can be brought up to speed just fine.

If a "D" range guy like Ghost Rider can make a profit, I'd bet Captain Marvel could do just as well at the box office...presuming it's a halfway decent flick.

by **minstrel** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:33 pm

Isn't Captain Marvel too close to Superman, in terms of powers, personality, etc. etc.? Won't this look like a Superman clone?

by **MasterWhedon** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:39 pm

The cool thing they could do with Captain Marvel is make it a kid in Superman's body (which he essentially is). Think Tom Hanks in Big, but with more spandex and capes.

The material SHOULD be comical, IMO.

by **minstrel** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:42 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:The cool thing they could do with Captain Marvel is make it a kid in Superman's body (which he essentially is). Think Tom Hanks in Big, but with more spandex and capes.

The material SHOULD be comical, IMO.

Ah. I didn't realize that Captain Marvel retains Billy Batson's personality. I never read the comic book.

by **MasterWhedon** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:44 pm

Haha, you know what's funny? I said the "Big with superpowers" thing back HERE, almost a full year ago. I'm stealing from myself! :roll:

by **buster00** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:46 pm

minstrel wrote:Isn't Captain Marvel too close to Superman, in terms of powers, personality, etc. etc.? Won't this look like a Superman clone?

Close enough for DC to successfully sue Fawcett way back when...

However, the reason Captain Marvel endures (and the reason he once outsold Superman) is that "wish-fulfillment" angle.

We all know that we'll never be Superman, because we're not from Krypton. But what if you were pulled off the street one day and taken into a secret tunnel where an ancient wizard gave you superpowers? It's that sense of wonderment that pulls you in. Worked for Spider-Man, too.

by **Lord Voldemoo** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:54 pm

buster00 wrote:
But what if you were pulled off the street one day and taken into a secret tunnel where an ancient wizard gave you superpowers? It's that sense of wonderment that pulls you in.

SO MANY...INAPPROPRIATE JOKES

That is one way this could stand out, you're right. I'd love to see them play that angle a bit, as Marvel did with Spider-Man...ordinary kid given unbelievable powers. The Big with superpowers thing might be pretty fun. I just can't see this movie succeeding if it takes itself too seriously, but as I noted above I'm hardly an expert in CM.

Oh btw, G-level might have been an exaggeration, but I still think a lot of you guys overestimate the public's awareness of him. That's neither here nor there, though. There's tons of great stuff out there that "the public" isn't aware of, obviously.

by **minstrel** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:54 pm

buster00 wrote:
minstrel wrote:Isn't Captain Marvel too close to Superman, in terms of powers, personality, etc. etc.? Won't this look like a Superman clone?

Close enough for DC to successfully sue Fawcett way back when...

However, the reason Captain Marvel endures (and the reason he once outsold Superman) is that "wish-fulfillment" angle.

We all know that we'll never be Superman, because we're not from Krypton. But what if you were pulled off the street one day and taken into a secret tunnel where an ancient wizard gave you superpowers? It's that sense of wonderment that pulls you in. Worked for Spider-Man, too.

Makes you wonder how many kids have tried to get themselves bitten by radioactive spiders. Or radioactive anything!

Was Joseph Merrick bitten by a radioactive elephant?

by **buster00** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:00 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
SO MANY...INAPPROPRIATE JOKES

I know...I know...

Lord Voldemoo wrote:Oh btw, G-level might have been an exaggeration, but I still think a lot of you guys overestimate the public's awareness of him. That's neither here nor there, though. There's tons of great stuff out there that "the public" isn't aware of, obviously.

It's cool. Figure: If they're gonna try to teach the public about Silver Surfer, they'd might as well offer up a character who's already had a couple o' TV shows to his credit.

by **instant_karma** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:02 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:It'll have to be driven by good writing, good acting.

I'd take that over something directed by some dude who got the gig on the back of a Queen Latifah comedy and puked out by a studio that didn't care about the quality because they had A list heroes that the public were aware of.

I think now that super hero movies are now established as a viable genre in themselves, studios are looking beyond awareness of characters and are basing their choices more on the potential inherit in the characters and their powers/methods. I'm pretty sure Ghostrider wasn't made based on a massive existing fan base.

While I understand MW's comments about taking risks with lesser known characters, I really hope they don't do it with this one.

Although Captain Marvel appears to be nothing but a Superman knock-off, there are several things about him that give the character some great dramatic potential. I think any of us could easily think of a half dozen ways that a child with the ability to turn himself into what is essentially a demi-god could be a great foundation for an exciting, dramatic story.

Yeah, there are definite comic potential inherit in that, but I think all you'd really get is something that fell between Teen Wolf and The Mask. And that might be an okay film, but I'd consider it a wasted opportunity.

Instead, how about a film where you see a little kid struggling to cope the weight of responsibility of being Captain Marvel. There's all kinds of potential pitfalls and temptations for the character. Getting bullied? Say the magic words and kick their ass. Why would he ever want to change back to being a kid when he could spend all his time being the 'worlds mightiest mortal' and never have to worry about all the things we fear when we are children? And if he yeilded to that temptation, how might it corrupt him?

As others have already pointed out, he also has a great nemesis in Black Adam (and Dwayne Johnson is indeed a perfect fit). A character that's his equal in every way. A brawl between these two could be jaw dropping in its scope. The kind of fight that Matrix Revolutions tried but failed to deliver.

Ah, I'm rambling here. Funny thing is, I'm not even a huge Captain Marvel nut. Read the 4 issue mini series that spun out of Legends and then his occasional Justice League appearance, but that's about it. Oh, and Kingdom Come. And Miracleman.

Anyway, all I really wanted to say is I think this is a character with really great potential and I don't think the lack of public awareness should be a reason to lower expectations. And all the time I'm trying to justify why Captain Marvel should be taken seriously I keep thinking of burlives recent sig with 'What's that studly douche doing here?' mocking every word I write...

by **MasterWhedon** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:05 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:The Big with superpowers thing might be pretty fun.

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, the idea of a kid in a superhero's body accidentally flying into a building and demolishing it gets me a little excited.

"Whoops! Sorry! Look out for the--! Aww, man..." :oops:

* flies off to save citizens *

I'd watch that movie.

by **instant_karma** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:06 pm

I hate it when you spend so long writing a stupid, long winded post, that 10 other posts appear in that time and cover a lot of the points you were writing about.

Bastards!!

by **minstrel** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:10 pm

instant_karma wrote:I hate it when you spend so long writing a stupid, long winded post, that 10 other posts appear in that time and cover a lot of the points you were writing about.

Bastards!!

Be brief, concise, and precise.

And it helps if you don't have much to say!

by **buster00** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:14 pm

instant_karma wrote:
Instead, how about a film where you see a little kid struggling to cope the weight of responsibility of being Captain Marvel. There's all kinds of potential pitfalls and temptations for the character. Getting bullied? Say the magic words and kick their ass. Why would he ever want to change back to being a kid when he could spend all his time being the 'worlds mightiest mortal' and never have to worry about all the things we fear when we are children? And if he yeilded to that temptation, how might it corrupt him?

As others have already pointed out, he also has a great nemesis in Black Adam (and Dwayne Johnson is indeed a perfect fit). A character that's his equal in every way. A brawl between these two could be jaw dropping in its scope. The kind of fight that Matrix Revolutions tried but failed to deliver.

You've got the right idea, brother! THAT'S the movie I'd rather see.

Not too heavy-handed, of course -- a Captain Marvel movie's got to have some humor about it. I just don't want to see a shitpile of gags recycled from Sky High or Zoom.

by **Lord Voldemoo** on Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:19 pm

buster00 wrote:
It's cool. Figure: If they're gonna try to teach the public about Silver Surfer, they'd might as well offer up a character who's already had a couple o' TV shows to his credit.

Fair enough.

by **MasterWhedon** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:44 pm

Jake Gyllenhaal is Captain Marvel?!!!!!!!!!

by **Leckomaniac** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:50 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:Jake Gyllenhaal is Captain Marvel?!!!!!!!!!

Yeahbuhwha?!?!?!?!?!

by **burlivesleftnut** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:53 pm

That's some weird stuff.

by **instant_karma** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:57 pm

Much as I like Gyllenhaal, I'm not very keen on this casting. I just can't see him bulking up enough to look right, but maybe he could.

My initial reaction when I saw the post was that he had been cast to play Billy...

by **MasterWhedon** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:02 pm

I'd love to see a young kid play Batson and have him turn into someone like The Rock or Russel Crowe for Captain Marvel, to further sell the huge disparity between the two worlds. Get someone who can act, obviously--not just a body-builder--but someone with significant bulk.

by **instant_karma** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:06 pm

MasterWhedon wrote:I'd love to see a young kid play Batson and have him turn into someone like The Rock or Russel Crowe for Captain Marvel, to further sell the huge disparity between the two worlds. Get someone who can act, obviously--not just a body-builder--but someone with significant bulk.

Absolutely. I hope they aren't considering trying some sort of CGI trickery to allow the same actor to play both parts.

by **SilentBobX** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:16 pm

All the talk of Captain Marvel being a 'C' list character or worse kinda irks me. After all, wasn't Blade one of those types before he got made into a movie?

Until they put Cap in a rubber suit with nipples big enough to hang a coat on, I'm optimistic.

Mahalo

by **buster00** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:35 pm

"I wish I knew how to quit you."

Predictable

by **Fawst** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:48 pm

MAN this shit used to confuse me! I thought his name was Shazam when I was a kid, then I found out he was Captain Marvel. But then I was like "But Marvel? That's the OTHER company!" And then I found out there IS another Captain Marvel from Marvel. Mar-Vel (Kal-El anyone?). Not TOO confusing.

So was Captain "Shazam" Marvel always a DC character? What's this lawsuit that was mentioned earlier in the thread due to a Supes ripoff? And does anyone remember the old Superman arcade game? I SWEAR that if you were in two-player mode, the second player was Captain Marvel.

by **buster00** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:00 pm

Fawst wrote:
So was Captain "Shazam" Marvel always a DC character? What's this lawsuit that was mentioned earlier in the thread due to a Supes ripoff? And does anyone remember the old Superman arcade game? I SWEAR that if you were in two-player mode, the second player was Captain Marvel.

Wikipedia is your friend.

And yeah, I remember that red Superman in the arcade game. They never identified him as such, but my friends and I used to just call him Captain Marvel.

Except Cap doesn't have heat vision.

(nerds)

by **instant_karma** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:29 pm

The other super dude was prolly a Daxamite...

by **Eunuch Provocateur** on Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:46 pm

Shazam! reminds me of Kazaam. Will Shaq be in this one too?

by **Nachokoolaid** on Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:43 pm

Eunuch Provocateur wrote:Shazam! reminds me of Kazaam. Will Shaq be in this one too?

You must go back in time to the beginning of this thread to unravel this mystery, grasshopper.

by **Fawst** on Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:46 pm

See, the less obvious joke would be "They're making a movie about Foxy Cleopatra from Austin Powers?"

by **Leckomaniac** on Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:20 pm

It appears that DC is really attempting to push the SHAZAM! property.

This is from CBR's Lying In The Gutters.

Rich Johnston wrote:2008 is going to be all Captain Marvel and Mary Marvel. DC will be pushing the character with the animated series and toys. Mary Marvel will have a starring role in "Countdown." The Jeff Smith series will get a huge promotional push when it's collected, and is just the first of a number of Captain Marvel projects with large appeal. Warner believes it can create a movie franchise based on the character, but in order to do so, they've got to get people talking the character up...

Shame they can never actually use the name of the character in projects, or the advertising of such...

It looks like the article suggesting that DC want to give this film a huge budget and what not is actually pretty accurate.

Click the link for an image from the upcoming SHAZAM! cartoon.

by **Leckomaniac** on Thu May 10, 2007 12:48 am

So...

Could The ROCK Play Capt. Marvel?

Its a possibility apparently.

by **Retardo_Montalban** on Thu May 10, 2007 2:25 am

Eunuch Provocateur wrote:Shazam! reminds me of Kazaam. Will Shaq be in this one too?

Reminds me of Gomer Pyle USMC

SHAZAAM

Pyle

SHAZAAM

Pyle

SHAZAAM

Pyle

SHAZAAM

Pyle...

by **Moriarty** on Thu May 10, 2007 3:02 am

I was on the GET SMART set today. He did say what COMING SOON quoted him as saying.

We then had a private conversation about SHAZAM, and we discussed the difference between playing Black Adam and Captain Marvel.

I thought he came across as a really smart and focused guy. When I told him that the thing that makes Captain Marvel different is that he is a kid in a superhero's body, and that it's basically BIG with a cape, it's like something clicked. I don't think he'd ever heard it described like that.

The filmmakers really want him as Black Adam.

After today, I think he'd rather play Captain Marvel.

We'll see.

by **Leckomaniac** on Thu May 10, 2007 3:17 am

Moriarty wrote:I was on the GET SMART set today. He did say what COMING SOON quoted him as saying.

We then had a private conversation about SHAZAM, and we discussed the difference between playing Black Adam and Captain Marvel.

I thought he came across as a really smart and focused guy. When I told him that the thing that makes Captain Marvel different is that he is a kid in a superhero's body, and that it's basically BIG with a cape, it's like something clicked. I don't think he'd ever heard it described like that.

The filmmakers really want him as Black Adam.

After today, I think he'd rather play Captain Marvel.

We'll see.

Oh wow. Thanks for the additional info Mori. So you were on the set for GET SMART, eh?

I love the idea of him playing Black Adam...but I am not opposed to him playing Captain Marvel either. I just think he has that dominating presence to him and that would fit so perfect with Black Adam. Then again...that smile could work well as Capt. Marvel.

Hmmmm.

Regardless, thanks for sharing!

by **Nachokoolaid** on Thu May 10, 2007 11:01 am

I think the Rock could definitely work. He needs a franchise. I always enjoy watching him on screen. He's not the best actor out there (although he's much improved), but he reminds me of watch Arnold in his prime. He just has a lot of charisma.

by **SilentBobX** on Thu May 10, 2007 5:13 pm

Captain Marvel: Vince Vaughn
Captain Marvel Jr: Chris O'Donnell
Mary Marvel: Mila Kunis
Black Adam: Dwayne Johnson
Dr. Sivana: Michael Chiklis

My original cast idea. I still stand by this, and before anyone begins peeing a gallon of plasma, I'm not saying it's who WILL, but rather, my opinion of who I believe SHOULD play these characters.

Mahalo

by **buster00** on Thu May 10, 2007 5:19 pm

SilentBobX wrote:Dr. Sivana: Michael Chiklis

Michael Chiklis for Sivana? I dunno about that. Chiklis is a little too bulky, no?

Sivana's a scrawny little shit.

I'm totally for The Rock as Black Adam, though. Don't know who I'd like to see as Cap.

by **Ribbons** on Thu May 10, 2007 5:38 pm

I have a hard time picturing the Rock in a superhero costume either way. Shazam is a larger than life character though, so there aren't really many people who probably could fill the tights.

by **DinoDeLaurentiis** on Fri May 11, 2007 6:41 am

SilentBobX wrote:Dr. Sivana: Michael Chiklis

Chiklis?!? Holy crappa... The Dino, he looks a more like a the Sivana than a that goddamn beefy putz, eh?

by **Evil Hobbit** on Fri May 11, 2007 7:57 am

I'd rather see Jake then the Rock. After the Scorpion King I'm afraid I have hard time watching to that fella acting on any kind of screen.

by **SilentBobX** on Sun May 13, 2007 10:58 am

No, he's not a beefy putz. Trying to find someone EXACTLY like the character appears doesn't always work. Trust me, it would work.

by **minstrel** on Sun May 13, 2007 11:14 am

SilentBobX wrote:Captain Marvel Jr: Chris O'Donnell

WTF????

I thought Captain Marvel Jr. was supposed to be a teenager. Chris O'Donnell is 37 years old (or will be next month), and hasn't been able to convincingly play a teenager for about fifteen years.

by **burlivesleftnut** on Sun May 13, 2007 11:17 am

SilentBobX wrote:Captain Marvel: Vince Vaughn
Captain Marvel Jr: Chris O'Donnell
Mary Marvel: Mila Kunis
Black Adam: Dwayne Johnson
Dr. Sivana: Michael Chiklis

My original cast idea. I still stand by this, and before anyone begins peeing a gallon of plasma, I'm not saying it's who WILL, but rather, my opinion of who I believe SHOULD play these characters.

Mahalo

Holy christ, that's the worst fan casting ever. Except for the Rock, it's terrible all the way around! AND outdated.

by **SilentBobX** on Mon May 14, 2007 7:23 pm

My genius shall be recognized one day. You'll see..............

(evil echoing laugh)

by **Leckomaniac** on Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:57 pm

Is this man Capt. Marvel? Well he sure wants to be. Click on the picture to read an interview where he discusses the character.

by **Adam Balm** on Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:04 am

Looks like Buster00 after being in prison....

Can the guy act?

by **buster00** on Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:28 am

Adam Balm wrote:Looks like Buster00 after being in prison....

Can the guy act?

WAAAGHAHAHA!!

I actually wasn't as clean-shaven... :oops:

So, Brandon Molale, huh? He's sure got the look, and he seems to want the part. Check out this pic!

by **Leckomaniac** on Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:30 am

buster00 wrote:
Adam Balm wrote:Looks like Buster00 after being in prison....

Can the guy act?

WAAAGHAHAHA!!

I actually wasn't as clean-shaven...

So, Brandon Molale, huh? He's sure got the look, and he seems to want the part. Check out this pic!

Wow that is totally cool. The dude may very well promote his way into the role. I would love it if he just lost himself in the role...because this may be his big chance at stardom. Let The Rock play Black Adam...gosh I love the idea of a Capt. Marvel film. It just lends itself so well to the cinematic experience. I just hope they don't play it too PG. I am not expecting Batman Begins gritty or anything, but make sure you leave the fart jokes and stuff out of the film.

I really want this film to happen.

The Zone

"SHAZAM!" (With THE ROCK!1!) (Now w/ 100% Less Rock)

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