Official 300 Review Thread (SPOILERS)

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

How hard did 300 kick your ass?

Kicked it hard (loved it)
45
57%
Tried to kick but didn't connect (liked it)
22
28%
Kicked in my general direction (meh)
8
10%
Tried that kicking stuff and I chopped its leg off (disliked it)
3
4%
Beat it to death with its own leg (hated it)
0
No votes
There's a movie called 300?
1
1%
 
Total votes : 79

Postby The Vicar on Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:37 pm

Well said, Peven.

I keep hearing referrence to the 2D nature of the 300 Spartans...some have used the phrase "cardboardish cutouts" to describe them in this film.

I'm not entirely certain what people were expecting from Spartan warriors....having been in the military, and taught my fair share of Navy Seals & Green Berets ( I was an assistant lab instructor at Great Lakes ), its not too difficult to transpose things & try to sort out how the most astonishingly disciplined & greatest warriors in history might behave.

Even down to the "gallows humor" displayed during the rain of Persian arrows, I found our 300 Spartan heroes to be what I've come to expect of battle hardened, supremely disciplined men of war - there was nothing inconsistant about their behavior in the slightest.

What I like about this film, as narrated by Wendham's character, is that it reflects the story the way it was told, passed on orally from father to son and so on - and the way things are magnified in the telling.

What the fuck is he on about?

There may have been a Paul Bunyan, and he may have been a big assed mofo, but by the time his story was being passed around the midwest he grew to tower over the trees he allegedly put axe to.

We're not seeing the story of the 300 as historical fact, but as a fireside tale - Xerses becomes a towering monster, everything becomes exaggerated.
The story grows in the telling.

To this reporter, it seems that Zack Snyder chose to tell the fireside tale, bigger than life & straining the bounds of reality.

Those Spartan cats were a race apart, in many respects. Almost impossible for modern humans to comprehend. They cannot be judged through our lenses, from our modern perspectives. Men like these Spartans, we've not seen their like. Alot of people I spoke with about 300 griped & sniped about the portrayal of these men - as far as this reporter can tell, they have no case.

8.5 to 9 of 10.
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Postby Retardo_Montalban on Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:46 pm

The Vicar wrote:Well said, Peven.


8.5 to 9 of 10.


8.5 to 9?? thats a pretty indecisive score, Vic. That's the kind of indecisiveness that gets you KILLED on the battlefield. This is war, boy. Now cowboy up and Give us a rating
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Postby The Vicar on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:26 am

Retardo_Montalban wrote:
The Vicar wrote:Well said, Peven.


8.5 to 9 of 10.


8.5 to 9?? thats a pretty indecisive score, Vic. That's the kind of indecisiveness that gets you KILLED on the battlefield. This is war, boy. Now cowboy up and Give us a rating


Fuck, you're strict.
8.75.

Happy now?
:D
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:40 am

The Vicar wrote:
We're not seeing the story of the 300 as historical fact, but as a fireside tale - Xerses becomes a towering monster, everything becomes exaggerated.
The story grows in the telling.


Now that's a really interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that before (and me writing a massive literary paper!) and I like that. One of my sole gripes about the movie are when it gets a bit too LOTR--massive troll warriors, the freaky look of the Immortals, Xerxes' massive height...some of it came with the Frank Miller territory but most of it was Snyder's own.

But to think of Dilios spinning it to incite Greece...I love that. They weren't just Persians, guys, they were the sickest Persians you've ever seen! We didn't just take down a rhino--it was an enormous rhino.

Vicar, you are teh smartness! ;)

I guess I'll save my academic ass here and mention I'm working Sparta into my Anglo-Saxon paper, as I have this somewhat unprovable theory that Germanic culture borrowed from Sparta. I'm sure my medieval professors are going to roll their eyes though and know why it's on my mind. ;)
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Postby buster00 on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:43 am

Spartanesque po? :?
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Postby Retardo_Montalban on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:45 am

buster00 wrote:Spartanesque po? :?


That's ebonics, for either poor or poll. You po ass jive turkey. Don' t you be eye ballin' me, less you want me to tear a strip outta you wit my beatin' po.
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Postby The Vicar on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:59 am

Lady Sheridan wrote:
The Vicar wrote:
We're not seeing the story of the 300 as historical fact, but as a fireside tale - Xerses becomes a towering monster, everything becomes exaggerated.
The story grows in the telling.


Now that's a really interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that before (and me writing a massive literary paper!) and I like that. One of my sole gripes about the movie are when it gets a bit too LOTR--massive troll warriors, the freaky look of the Immortals, Xerxes' massive height...some of it came with the Frank Miller territory but most of it was Snyder's own.

But to think of Dilios spinning it to incite Greece...I love that. They weren't just Persians, guys, they were the sickest Persians you've ever seen! We didn't just take down a rhino--it was an enormous rhino.

Vicar, you are teh smartness! ;)


Love ya too, darling. :wink:

Personally, I think your boy Butler channelled Leonidas bigtime.
You must be so proud.
And possibly aroused.
Or have you forgotten Gerard's bum shot?

I thought not.
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:09 am

The Vicar wrote:We're not seeing the story of the 300 as historical fact, but as a fireside tale - Xerses becomes a towering monster, everything becomes exaggerated. The story grows in the telling.


I think you're right, but the movie betrays this concept to some extent with the whole subplot back in Sparta. Reminds me of this episode of the Simpsons where Bart has a future vision at an Indian casino. "But why was my vision constantly interrupted by Homer searching for Lincoln's gold?" "Eh, the spirits must have thought your story was a little thin."
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:11 am

The Vicar wrote:
Love ya too, darling. :wink:

Personally, I think your boy Butler channelled Leonidas bigtime.
You must be so proud.
And possibly aroused.
Or have you forgotten Gerard's bum shot?

I thought not.


Man, I can't WAIT to have that on DVD... :D

I *am* really proud and happy for him, he's getting rave reviews and he certainly worked hard to deserve them. It makes me a little sad, cause he won't be just my boy anymore, but it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

I'm still amazed Warner Bros had so little faith in it. People were raving for it at ComicCon, and yet they still expected it would bomb hard. Crazy!
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:19 am

SPOILERS EVERYWHERE O NOESSSSS!!!!!!!!!

Just saw it!!!!!!! I don't want to rehash everything in detail for those of you lucky enough to have already seen the film, but here are my initial thoughts having just walked in the door (one note, I suck at remembering character names without looking them up again so bear with me):

RANTS:

1) Everything was a little derivative. As much as the visuals are spectacular and innovative a lot of the film felt like it had been done before. I'm not even really referring to the overarching themes (freedom against tyranny, the mighty few versus the hordes, the fight for one's country, etc) as I consider those to be universal themes that have been addressed in various artforms for centuries. I'm referring to more nitpicky stuff like the Persian elephants, which looked far too much like the Oliphaunts of Return of the King; and the old "pull the spear further into my gut so that I may reach out and kill you" technique which was done in Fellowship (albeit with less success). Those are two examples, but in a film which has been described (accurately) as a series of "money shots" strung in a row, watching several of those money shots and saying to oneself "HEY, I SAW THAT IN..." is a little distracting.

2) I agree with someone's (Peven's?) note above about the Queen's subplot feeling rushed and a little forced, though it was necessary. I don't think it could have been cut, I wish we'd had a little more. I LOVED the fact that she was the one who killed the douchebag senator, though and in the senate chamber, no less. I thought that Faramir (see, I suck at character names) would be the one to make that kill upon his return. Part of Leonidas' final orders. I'm glad that wasn't the case.

3) The CGI was teh suk. Actually, it was really good except one part: the spartan abs!! They didn't look at all realistic....Oops, I've just been handed a note that some peoples' abs actually DO look like that...off to do some situps.

4) I thought the oracle was hot, then she was described in the film as being fifteen or something, which made me feel dirty.

ETA: 5) I forgot about this one: Hunchback Smeagol was ghey.

RAVES:

1) I should really have just limited my "review" to a few short words I saw on the back of someone's camaro the other day: "Get in, sit down, shut up and HOLD ON!" That's what this film was for me. I described the film by plagarizing someone else's review (Mori's?) and calling it a series of money shots. That it is, to a large extent. You know what, it works though!! It's just fucking cool. I loved the fight scenes, I loved the editing style (though it felt slightly repetitive into like the 3rd major fight). It is a mindfuck of a ride and I had a blast on it.

2) Gerry. Man, this guy carried the movie. I want to hate him just to give LS and I something to spar over :wink: but I can't. If you miscast Leonidas, this film is straight to video garbage. If you can't take him seriously, the Spartans become a joke. This type of role, with all of its bombast and machismo could have become a walking cliche or, worse, funny, but Gerry didn't let it. THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!! is what people will remember, but it's his quieter moments with his wife, his son and especially his men that sold me on the character and on Gerry. Gerry gave Leonidas some depth that was desperately needed. He was really fucking good.

3) So. Fucking. Pretty. (the movie, not Gerry)

4) Xerxes. Dude was fucking creepy and the scene between him and Leonidas was fantastic.

Vicar- I think your point about it being told as a story, and a wartime story no less, is right on and was kind of how I was thinking of it from the start. It showed Faramir speaking to the men around the campfire at the beginning of the film and so I just interpreted the movie from that persepctive, as it sounds like you did. That's why the more fantastical elements of the film didn't bother me.

Overall, a great fucking ride. I'd give it 9 out of 10. I'm off to do some situps.

EDIT x2: I said the word "fuck" a lot in that review. I chalk it up to all the testosterone in the movie...
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Postby MonkeyM666 on Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:27 am

Vegeta wrote:Vegeta gives 300 five out of five punches:
ImageImageImageImageImage


ahhh.... I've missed the pnuches... :D


So IMAX wasn't as good as a regular cinema. Interesting... I was going to go to IMAX for the first time ever to see this flick (maybe as part of a UK meetup) but now I'm unsure. Is there anyone else who can give their opinion on this?????
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Postby The Vicar on Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:58 am

MonkeyM666 wrote:
Vegeta wrote:Vegeta gives 300 five out of five punches:
ImageImageImageImageImage


ahhh.... I've missed the punches... :D


So IMAX wasn't as good as a regular cinema. Interesting... I was going to go to IMAX for the first time ever to see this flick (maybe as part of a UK meetup) but now I'm unsure. Is there anyone else who can give their opinion on this?????


With a film that's larger than life, why not see it on a screen big enough to induce insanity?
I've seen it twice on the wee screen, but will certainly check it out on Imax this week.


Oh Voldy - suffer not for thy lust - the Oracle was indeed teh Hot.
Besides, in ye olde days gone by, she'd have already been wed & bearing children ( if she weren't an Oracle ).

Hunchback Smeagol was ghey?
You just made me waste a mouthful of orange juice.
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:11 am

Lord Voldemoo wrote:SPOILERS EVERYWHERE O NOESSSSS!!!!!!!!!

Just saw it!!!!!!! I don't want to rehash everything in detail for those of you lucky enough to have already seen the film, but here are my initial thoughts having just walked in the door (one note, I suck at remembering character names without looking them up again so bear with me):

RANTS:

1) Everything was a little derivative. As much as the visuals are spectacular and innovative a lot of the film felt like it had been done before. I'm not even really referring to the overarching themes (freedom against tyranny, the mighty few versus the hordes, the fight for one's country, etc) as I consider those to be universal themes that have been addressed in various artforms for centuries. I'm referring to more nitpicky stuff like the Persian elephants, which looked far too much like the Oliphaunts of Return of the King; and the old "pull the spear further into my gut so that I may reach out and kill you" technique which was done in Fellowship (albeit with less success). Those are two examples, but in a film which has been described (accurately) as a series of "money shots" strung in a row, watching several of those money shots and saying to oneself "HEY, I SAW THAT IN..." is a little distracting.

2) I agree with someone's (Peven's?) note above about the Queen's subplot feeling rushed and a little forced, though it was necessary. I don't think it could have been cut, I wish we'd had a little more. I LOVED the fact that she was the one who killed the douchebag senator, though and in the senate chamber, no less. I thought that Faramir (see, I suck at character names) would be the one to make that kill upon his return. Part of Leonidas' final orders. I'm glad that wasn't the case.

3) The CGI was teh suk. Actually, it was really good except one part: the spartan abs!! They didn't look at all realistic....Oops, I've just been handed a note that some peoples' abs actually DO look like that...off to do some situps.

4) I thought the oracle was hot, then she was described in the film as being fifteen or something, which made me feel dirty.

ETA: 5) I forgot about this one: Hunchback Smeagol was ghey.

RAVES:

1) I should really have just limited my "review" to a few short words I saw on the back of someone's camaro the other day: "Get in, sit down, shut up and HOLD ON!" That's what this film was for me. I described the film by plagarizing someone else's review (Mori's?) and calling it a series of money shots. That it is, to a large extent. You know what, it works though!! It's just fucking cool. I loved the fight scenes, I loved the editing style (though it felt slightly repetitive into like the 3rd major fight). It is a mindfuck of a ride and I had a blast on it.

2) Gerry. Man, this guy carried the movie. I want to hate him just to give LS and I something to spar over :wink: but I can't. If you miscast Leonidas, this film is straight to video garbage. If you can't take him seriously, the Spartans become a joke. This type of role, with all of its bombast and machismo could have become a walking cliche or, worse, funny, but Gerry didn't let it. THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!! is what people will remember, but it's his quieter moments with his wife, his son and especially his men that sold me on the character and on Gerry. Gerry gave Leonidas some depth that was desperately needed. He was really fucking good.

3) So. Fucking. Pretty. (the movie, not Gerry)

4) Xerxes. Dude was fucking creepy and the scene between him and Leonidas was fantastic.

Vicar- I think your point about it being told as a story, and a wartime story no less, is right on and was kind of how I was thinking of it from the start. It showed Faramir speaking to the men around the campfire at the beginning of the film and so I just interpreted the movie from that persepctive, as it sounds like you did. That's why the more fantastical elements of the film didn't bother me.

Overall, a great fucking ride. I'd give it 9 out of 10. I'm off to do some situps.

EDIT x2: I said the word "fuck" a lot in that review. I chalk it up to all the testosterone in the movie...


I'll agree with pretty much what you've said here...
I really enjoyed it - albeit it wasn't the 2nd coming of films and/or the greatest thing in years...

But it was fun and enjoyable and a good time at the theatres.
3 out of 4 of us that went would easily recommend to others...

Quick question - did anybody else's theatre break into applause when the Queen gutted the dude in the Senate - and repeated his previous line to him - except saying: "I am not your Queen" as opposed to "I'm not your King"
Cause our theatre loved it - and it's one of the reasons (besides lonicloths, Abs, and Butts-in-the-moonlight posing that would make Michael Douglas proud - that gets the women to love the film even more...

My girlfriend loved it - and she loved it more cause the dude got run through with his own sword...

Also - I don't wanna be rude or anything here - but was it just me - or did Lena Headey have some of the longest nipples you've ever seen...?

I was almost shocked - and now I know why these Spartan Men aren't afraid of swords or arrows or spears...
If they've been dodging these udders from poking out a fucking eye since birth - what's a little spear to them...?

But I'd probably give it about an 8 or so out of 10...I voted the "Like it" option on this poll...

Like I said - fun - and good to catch in a theatre - won't change your life (unless you're LS) but at least - for the most part - it's something fairly fresh...

Could've been worse...could've been 300 Wild Hogs...
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:10 am

I caught this on IMAX over the weekend, along with the millions of others who launched 300 into the March record books.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd give it a 6. Great concept, beautiful execution visually, but overall it's a pretty weak film. Viscerally entertaining though, on a colosseum level.

While I can agree with many of Brainiac's well-though-out points at the top of this page, I also can agree with Brocktune midway down.

The one thought that kept coming into my head while I watched it in the packed IMAX theater was "is this all there is? Is this what we've become as a movie-watching audience?" I suppose so. While the movie is pure popcorn escapism, it doesn't offer much beyond the a visceral survey course in machismo.

There has been a trend in Hollywood lately, where movies like this are essentially nothing more than video games that we can't play (until the tie-in comes out that we can play, that is). But like the direct-to-DVD Hellboy: Sword of Storms, The Invincible Iron-Man, and the recent Ghost Rider, 300 falls into that same category where it is nothing more than a few minor battle waves, meet the boss, battle harder enemies, meet the boss again, battle harder yet, and then final battle with the boss. Everything else is cliched, one-dimensional filler.

Strangely enough, the quality of the visuals looked very similar to those of Sky Captain, which many people largely hated. But both films shared the same slightly, grainy, fuzzy background visuals, probably due to efforts to hide the "CGI-ness" of the surrounding sets. But where audiences griped about that in Sky Captain, they seem at home with it in 300, whether that's due to the comic-book nature of the film or whether we've just become accustomed to that particular look, I don't know. Maybe both.

But for a film where the visuals are so important and the CGI has been used to craft probably 85% of what we see on every frame, the little details like the smallpox vaccination scars on so many of the Spartan's shoulders, and the fillings in Gerard Butler's teeth really took me out of the movie. It's like that scene in X-Men 1 when Sabretooth roars up at the sky and you see all of his fillings... are you telling me that with all of the money being spent on these movies that they can't go in and paint out the scars and fillings?!? Come on... that's like a guy wearing a wristwatch in Spartacus.

The battles are certainly entertaining, and the use of the spear and the shield as offensive weapons is very cool to see... you can really imagine the force of the impact as a Spartan twirls himself around and throws out that shield arm... WHAM!

I'll tell you one thing, after watching the film, I thought "forget Watchmen and forget the upcoming Dark Knight by Nolan... Snyder and Miller should just get to work on the The Dark Knight Returns. THIS is the way to do that project."
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Postby The Vicar on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:44 am

havocSchultz wrote:Quick question - did anybody else's theatre break into applause when the Queen gutted the dude in the Senate - and repeated his previous line to him - except saying: "I am not your Queen" as opposed to "I'm not your King"


Both times I saw it the audience reacted - the first time ( Thursday night/Friday morning) it was general approval....the second time, with more ladies in attendance, there was applause & shouting.

Nota bene - wasn't Gorgo a giant lizard type that attacked London back in the 1961?
I get confused sometimes.....
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:48 am

The Vicar wrote:
havocSchultz wrote:Quick question - did anybody else's theatre break into applause when the Queen gutted the dude in the Senate - and repeated his previous line to him - except saying: "I am not your Queen" as opposed to "I'm not your King"


Both times I saw it the audience reacted - the first time ( Thursday night/Friday morning) it was general approval....the second time, with more ladies in attendance, there was applause & shouting.




But what of the NIPPLES?!?!!?
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:53 am

The Vicar wrote:Nota bene - wasn't Gorgo a giant lizard type that attacked London back in the 1961?


You be a the judge, eh?

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Postby The Vicar on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:55 am

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
The Vicar wrote:Nota bene - wasn't Gorgo a giant lizard type that attacked London back in the 1961?


You be a the judge, eh?

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Yup - that's the one.
Nice, Dino.

Can't see the nipples for shit though, sorry Havoc.
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:31 am

Everyone cheered Gorgo at our showing--she got big cheers at BNAT too. It's an awesome scene.

Now's my chance to rant about the Oracle--you don't know how much I wish I had gone to try out for her! I saw the call sheet, and you had to be 5'4, slender, red-haired and fair skinned...I was a shoe in. But they asked that she be at least a C cup breast size because "Spartan men have their needs."

Then I see the movie and what do I find? She has the same chest as I do. I could have been the Oracle. :cry:
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:40 am

Lady Sheridan wrote:Everyone cheered Gorgo at our showing--she got big cheers at BNAT too. It's an awesome scene.

Now's my chance to rant about the Oracle--you don't know how much I wish I had gone to try out for her! I saw the call sheet, and you had to be 5'4, slender, red-haired and fair skinned...I was a shoe in. But they asked that she be at least a C cup breast size because "Spartan men have their needs."

Then I see the movie and what do I find? She has the same chest as I do. I could have been the Oracle. :cry:


You can be a topless oracle in my films anyday...
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:41 am

But you would've had to be licked by an old, pustulent, warty F.Murray Abraham-ish looking guy.
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:41 am

Cha-Ka Khan wrote:But you would've had to be licked by an old, pustulent, warty F.Murray Abraham-ish looking guy.


I'm sure that's no worse than responding to one of Kirks' posts...
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Postby RogueScribner on Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:52 am

I saw 300 a couple of nights ago. The ads are testosterone filled hack-and-slash fests and that's pretty much the movie. The look of the film is highly stylized (a la Sky Captain or Sin City). The film is about honor and freedom (freedom isn't free, it's a buck o'five) and the lengths these Spartans go to to ensure their rights. It's like a rock n' roll Braveheart or Gladiator. Not too deep, but still a rollicking good time. Definitely a Man's movie.

7.5 (I'd give it an 8, but it was a little light on the substance)
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Postby Lady Sheridan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:54 am

I knew I'd get a second chance with your films, havoc! :D

Seriously, being licked by a rotted F. Murray Abraham would have been a small price to pay for sharing screen time with Leonidas. I know they filmed her seperately, but still...I'd have been in!
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:02 pm

I don't know if the film was technically "light on substance"

I mean yeah - it only really had the one basic running through it.
Never surrender - never give up - always fight -

Free men fight to stay free men.
It's not the most complex of ideas or plot points - but it is still a plot point -
and worthy enough theme.

It sums the Spartans up quite nicely - and they stick to it.

I mean - even being a Spartan - you'd think the choice that Loincloth has to make near the end would still be a tough one (if Xerxes is to be trusted) then he is offering quite a lot to Loincloth and his fellow Spartans.
Most men would take the deal to try and spare as many lives as possible.

But not the Spartans!
Not Loincloth!
It was never about surviving - it was just about fighting as long and as best as possible.
To show that no matter what is thrown and/or offered to the Spartans - they will just fight.
That's what they're born to do.
And that's what they're gonna die doing.

Like I said - it might not be anything complex or revolutionary - and I know the stylistic approach to the story might take away from almost everything else - at least upon initial viewing - but I still think that saying the film completely lacked substance is a bit of a dismissal of what the film itself is trying to say.

Because I think the film made it's points and themes and intentions very clear - and it stuck to them.

It might not be heavy on substance - but it does have a beating heart - and that heart was worn proudly on the end of a spear for all to see...

But that's just kinda the feel I got from the whole thing...
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:03 pm

Lady Sheridan wrote:I knew I'd get a second chance with your films, havoc! :D



Damn straight!

Now where are those "head shots" you promised me...?
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:27 pm

Another thing I'd like to mention - it was one of my girlfriend's favorite little moments in the entire film.

It was the small, subtle "glance of confirmation" that Loincloth gives to his wife just before punting the messenger and yelling the infamous "Red Sauce on Pasta!" line.

It was a nice little gesture that showed Loincloth actually respected and loved his wife.
It's not like he actually "needed" permission to do it - but it was a nice thing to do.

Like I said - she noticed it right away and really liked that it was put in there.

Thank you for your time...
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Postby MasterWhedon on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:47 pm

My review:

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!

...but in a good way.

9/10
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Postby The Vicar on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:48 pm

havocSchultz wrote:Another thing I'd like to mention - it was one of my girlfriend's favorite little moments in the entire film.

It was the small, subtle "glance of confirmation" that Loincloth gives to his wife just before punting the messenger and yelling the infamous "Red Sauce on Pasta!" line.

It was a nice little gesture that showed Loincloth actually respected and loved his wife.
It's not like he actually "needed" permission to do it - but it was a nice thing to do.

Like I said - she noticed it right away and really liked that it was put in there.

Thank you for your time...


That was a great moment - the look, the subtle nod of affirmation from Gorgo...as Theron found out, you screw with Spartan women at your own peril. Especially this Spartan woman.

Nice points above, Havoc, regarding substance, style & heart.
I'm unsure as to what else is required for substance.
Leonidas lays it out pretty clearly - freedom vs tyranny.
We're fighting for the right to be men, our men, our way.
The story is pretty straightforward on that point - here comes trouble, what are we going to do about it and game on.
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:19 pm

Just some thoughts...

Did anyone else find the makeshift wall that the Spartans put up look rather puny in the grand scheme of things? Xerxes could have just as easily sent out a group of men to dismantle the wall while his elite guard kept the Spartans busy.

Also, it bothered me when he said to the hunchback "show us the hidden path behind the mountain and you will be rewarded etc." If he knew there was a hidden path there, why not just send a squadron out there to look for it? How hidden can it be?

And finally... the whole point of going to the Hot Gates was to funnel Xerxes' army through its passage, reducing the advantage of his numbers. So why then does Leonidas send his army outside the Gates out into the open facing the full brunt of whatever Xerxes throws at them?
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:23 pm

Cha-Ka Khan wrote:
And finally... the whole point of going to the Hot Gates was to funnel Xerxes' army through its passage, reducing the advantage of his numbers. So why then does Leonidas send his army outside the Gates out into the open facing the full brunt of whatever Xerxes throws at them?


To show Xerxes that yes - they could be funnelling them through the passage if they wanted to - but fuck that - they're Spartans - they'll come out in the open anyways!

Just as an added "Fuck You" to the enemy...

It's like holding a gun while your enemy is standing there - looking defeated - you could just shoot him - and be done with it - but instead, you decide to repeatedly violate him with the pistol end to get your point across that you are a Bad Mutha Fucka - no matter how hard or easy things might be for you...then you pull the trigger...

You Fuck 'Em!
And You Fuck 'Em HARD!
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:26 pm

havocSchultz wrote:To show Xerxes that yes - they could be funnelling them through the passage if they wanted to - but fuck that - they're Spartans - they'll come out in the open anyways!


Yes, well then, they're just stupid and they deserved their fate.
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:30 pm

Cha-Ka Khan wrote:
havocSchultz wrote:To show Xerxes that yes - they could be funnelling them through the passage if they wanted to - but fuck that - they're Spartans - they'll come out in the open anyways!


Yes, well then, they're just stupid and they deserved their fate.


Maybe...or maybe they all knew that it was a suicide mission anyways...
So they figured they'll show those Persians how tough they are - no matter what...

Why prolong their death by trying to strategize too much and have the Persians fall into their traps?
They just wanted to slap them across the face and take as many with them as possible...
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:36 pm

havocSchultz wrote:Why prolong their death by trying to strategize too much and have the Persians fall into their traps?


Oh, I don't know... there was that whole concept of "SPARTA!" perhaps that might have encouraged them to hold on and strategize for a little longer. The whole wives, children, families thing...

I mean, they were doing a pretty decent job of things, and Faramir even said "Xerxes had already shown his hand... he sent his best after just a few volleys." After they had cut down the Immortals, the rest should have been child's play for them.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:55 pm

Cha-Ka Khan wrote:
havocSchultz wrote:Why prolong their death by trying to strategize too much and have the Persians fall into their traps?


Oh, I don't know... there was that whole concept of "SPARTA!" perhaps that might have encouraged them to hold on and strategize for a little longer. The whole wives, children, families thing...

I mean, they were doing a pretty decent job of things, and Faramir even said "Xerxes had already shown his hand... he sent his best after just a few volleys." After they had cut down the Immortals, the rest should have been child's play for them.


I don't think Leonidas, except for that one brief moment the night after the seconc major battle, ever actually thought that he'd win. He was there to slow them, to serve as a symbol for the rest of Greece to rally around. He was there to die in glory. Not for his own personal glory but to die as a martyr. The best way to accomplish that goal is to fight the Persians in the open, not skulking in the shadows. He already had the Persians on a narrow road so they couldn't use their full force against him. Once he'd driven back the first wave he was locked into his position. Spartan law (for better or worse) said that you DO NOT, under any circumstances, retreat and as they said in the film even the King is not above the law.

Is it smart? Maybe not but it's the basis of the movie so I took it as fact.

As far as the wall looking meager, yes it did. You have to remember that no Spartan had ever seen an army like Xerxes', it was the largest army ever put in the field. He probably had trouble conceptualizing what it would even look like. Without that context the wall probably seemed like could divert the Persian troops. In the end, it worked just as well as if it had been 1000 feet high because of Xerxes' hubris.
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:03 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Cha-Ka Khan wrote:
havocSchultz wrote:Why prolong their death by trying to strategize too much and have the Persians fall into their traps?


Oh, I don't know... there was that whole concept of "SPARTA!" perhaps that might have encouraged them to hold on and strategize for a little longer. The whole wives, children, families thing...

I mean, they were doing a pretty decent job of things, and Faramir even said "Xerxes had already shown his hand... he sent his best after just a few volleys." After they had cut down the Immortals, the rest should have been child's play for them.


I don't think Leonidas, except for that one brief moment the night after the seconc major battle, ever actually thought that he'd win. He was there to slow them, to serve as a symbol for the rest of Greece to rally around. He was there to die in glory. Not for his own personal glory but to die as a martyr. The best way to accomplish that goal is to fight the Persians in the open, not skulking in the shadows. He already had the Persians on a narrow road so they couldn't use their full force against him. Once he'd driven back the first wave he was locked into his position. Spartan law (for better or worse) said that you DO NOT, under any circumstances, retreat and as they said in the film even the King is not above the law.

Is it smart? Maybe not but it's the basis of the movie so I took it as fact.


Exactly...I think the whole point of Loincloth's battle was summed up in the last scene - to inspire enough people to actually form a huge army - to take back everything the Persians took from them...
And to make sure that they always (hopefully) remained Free Men...
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:23 pm

Yeah, I suppose you guys are right. I'll buy that for a dollar!
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:34 pm

Cha-Ka Khan wrote:Yeah, I suppose you guys are right. I'll buy that for a dollar!


Please make the cheque out to CASH...
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Postby RogueScribner on Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:10 pm

havocSchultz wrote:I don't know if the film was technically "light on substance"

I mean yeah - it only really had the one basic running through it.
Never surrender - never give up - always fight -

Free men fight to stay free men.
It's not the most complex of ideas or plot points - but it is still a plot point -
and worthy enough theme.

It sums the Spartans up quite nicely - and they stick to it.

I mean - even being a Spartan - you'd think the choice that Loincloth has to make near the end would still be a tough one (if Xerxes is to be trusted) then he is offering quite a lot to Loincloth and his fellow Spartans.
Most men would take the deal to try and spare as many lives as possible.

But not the Spartans!
Not Loincloth!
It was never about surviving - it was just about fighting as long and as best as possible.
To show that no matter what is thrown and/or offered to the Spartans - they will just fight.
That's what they're born to do.
And that's what they're gonna die doing.

Like I said - it might not be anything complex or revolutionary - and I know the stylistic approach to the story might take away from almost everything else - at least upon initial viewing - but I still think that saying the film completely lacked substance is a bit of a dismissal of what the film itself is trying to say.

Because I think the film made it's points and themes and intentions very clear - and it stuck to them.

It might not be heavy on substance - but it does have a beating heart - and that heart was worn proudly on the end of a spear for all to see...

But that's just kinda the feel I got from the whole thing...


I agree with your points generally, but I will say that the film was constructed to entertain, not so much think about, and that's why I (and some others, I suppose), it was a little light on substance. I'm not saying the film didn't have a worthy theme or ideal, but it was dressed up as popcorn entertainment and many people are therefore going to digest it as such. And there's not much there to dig deeper into. Freedom good; slavery and rape bad. Good message, but I didn't really make that emotional connection with any character precisely because the film focused more on the visuals than the heart or mind. I enjoyed the movie, but it falls short of greatness just for that reason.
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:15 pm

RogueScribner wrote:
havocSchultz wrote:I don't know if the film was technically "light on substance"

I mean yeah - it only really had the one basic running through it.
Never surrender - never give up - always fight -

Free men fight to stay free men.
It's not the most complex of ideas or plot points - but it is still a plot point -
and worthy enough theme.

It sums the Spartans up quite nicely - and they stick to it.

I mean - even being a Spartan - you'd think the choice that Loincloth has to make near the end would still be a tough one (if Xerxes is to be trusted) then he is offering quite a lot to Loincloth and his fellow Spartans.
Most men would take the deal to try and spare as many lives as possible.

But not the Spartans!
Not Loincloth!
It was never about surviving - it was just about fighting as long and as best as possible.
To show that no matter what is thrown and/or offered to the Spartans - they will just fight.
That's what they're born to do.
And that's what they're gonna die doing.

Like I said - it might not be anything complex or revolutionary - and I know the stylistic approach to the story might take away from almost everything else - at least upon initial viewing - but I still think that saying the film completely lacked substance is a bit of a dismissal of what the film itself is trying to say.

Because I think the film made it's points and themes and intentions very clear - and it stuck to them.

It might not be heavy on substance - but it does have a beating heart - and that heart was worn proudly on the end of a spear for all to see...

But that's just kinda the feel I got from the whole thing...


I agree with your points generally, but I will say that the film was constructed to entertain, not so much think about, and that's why I (and some others, I suppose), it was a little light on substance. I'm not saying the film didn't have a worthy theme or ideal, but it was dressed up as popcorn entertainment and many people are therefore going to digest it as such. And there's not much there to dig deeper into. Freedom good; slavery and rape bad. Good message, but I didn't really make that emotional connection with any character precisely because the film focused more on the visuals than the heart or mind. I enjoyed the movie, but it falls short of greatness just for that reason.


No, I know what you're saying - and I hope you don't think I was purposefully trying to call you out - I've heard it mentioned many times with this film - so it was just after you that I decided to respond.

I just wanted to make mention of the fact that I did find some substance and heart in the film - and that for what it was - that might be all it needed.
Plus - the film disguised itself as just a piece of popcorn style - that I feared some folks would think that's ALL it was...when in fact it had a nice little story of men trying to be free and loyalty amongst them.

I do agree that it was only a small amount - and that it was a basic theme - but I also agree with what was mentioned previously that it might've been done in away so as to not identify with the individual - but with the Spartan Warriors as a whole.
They were not really individual in their fighting - it was always together - so that kinda got me through the "lack of character development"

But - it could all just be subjective as well - and I do see the side you are coming from.
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:56 pm

Okay, what have a you done with a the REAL Havoc, eh?
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:58 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:Okay, what have a you done with a the REAL Havoc, eh?


Couple of times a year I actually let him out to talk about movies...as opposed to me just randomly referencing them while being pre-occupied by Kirk's sexual preferences...
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:01 pm

You should a let him out a more often, eh?
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:06 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:You should a let him out a more often, eh?


Well - it is starting to look like Spring outside...so the long winter appears to be starting to end...

Which means that there will be more and more movies to see very soon...

So I'm sure the shackles will come off a little more frequently...

But I will always be close...
I will always be watching...


























RED SAUCE ON PASTA!!!
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Postby Bean on Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:06 pm

I loved this movie! I was cheering along with the Spartans, I got really pumped up with their complete badass-ness... even if it was totally ALF on their part to do it.

The editing was great, slow-mo right before a kill made the battles seem graceful in a horrible kind of way. The Spartans were so impressive that I felt bad for the Persian army! Huge props go to the guy who was in charge of beefing the actors up, the end result was pretty stunning (in a completely hetero-sexual way :P). The green screen work was great, there were some amazing background shots that made me forget to pay attention to the movie!

The movie was great, but in a different kind of way. It's an action flick, but it has the biggest heart out of any of them. I say it again, loved it!
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Postby Peven on Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:11 pm

Cha-Ka Khan wrote:Just some thoughts...

Did anyone else find the makeshift wall that the Spartans put up look rather puny in the grand scheme of things? Xerxes could have just as easily sent out a group of men to dismantle the wall while his elite guard kept the Spartans busy.

Also, it bothered me when he said to the hunchback "show us the hidden path behind the mountain and you will be rewarded etc." If he knew there was a hidden path there, why not just send a squadron out there to look for it? How hidden can it be?

And finally... the whole point of going to the Hot Gates was to funnel Xerxes' army through its passage, reducing the advantage of his numbers. So why then does Leonidas send his army outside the Gates out into the open facing the full brunt of whatever Xerxes throws at them?


once Leonidas knew that the goat path was compromised he knew it was just a matter of time before Xerxes' men made their way around to the other end of the Hot Gates and surrounded them. he knew they were doomed. he knew the time was over for holding up Xerxes' men. he wanted to make a statement, both to Greece and to Xerxes' army. Spartans would fight to the death, to certain death, rather than bow down to tyranny. the worst the monster of an army that Xerxes threw at them was not enough to turn them from their honor, their duty to country.

light on substance? yeah, right. i guess Snyder should have thrown in a Jesus allegory and an illegitimate kid to give it more depth. :roll:



and Havoc, i found Headey's nipples to be none too big at all. in fact, i'd say they're juuuuuussttt right. :D she was gorgeous from head to toe in this movie, imo, and the way her character handled herself made her all that more beautiful. who says men don't find strong women attractive.
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:16 pm

Peven wrote:light on substance? yeah, right. i guess Snyder should have thrown in a Jesus allegory and an illegitimate kid to give it more depth. :roll:


Holy crappa, how could a you MISS a the Jesus allegory atta the end, eh? Leonidas laying onna the ground inna full Jesus-crucifiction pose, no?
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Postby Peven on Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:19 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
Peven wrote:light on substance? yeah, right. i guess Snyder should have thrown in a Jesus allegory and an illegitimate kid to give it more depth. :roll:


Holy crappa, how could a you MISS a the Jesus allegory atta the end, eh? Leonidas laying onna the ground inna full Jesus-crucifiction pose, no?


you're right. how could i forget that. i guess all Snyder needed to add was the illegitimate kid then. :wink:
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:22 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
Peven wrote:light on substance? yeah, right. i guess Snyder should have thrown in a Jesus allegory and an illegitimate kid to give it more depth. :roll:

Holy crappa, how could a you MISS a the Jesus allegory atta the end, eh? Leonidas laying onna the ground inna full Jesus-crucifiction pose, no?


Or at least an allegory of this guy... or maybe a little bit of both... or maybe neither...

And thus, I have filled havoc's ellipsis quota for the day...
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Postby havocSchultz on Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:25 pm

Peven wrote:


and Havoc, i found Headey's nipples to be none too big at all. in fact, i'd say they're juuuuuussttt right. :D she was gorgeous from head to toe in this movie, imo, and the way her character handled herself made her all that more beautiful. who says men don't find strong women attractive.



Oh, don't get me wrong - she was even arguably hotter than Pacino...and I'm not complaining - it's just something - for some weird reason - that "stood out" to me...they were good few inches...they were more so than Naomi Watt's in 21 Grams...

But yes - she was Teh Sexy - in form and in mind...

Now I've gotta go see a man about an oracle...
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