THE SOPRANOS

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Postby Jesus Christ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:08 pm

Is gabbagool the same thing as salami? Dumb question, i know. Sorry, i'm not eyetie.
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Postby Fievel on Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:32 pm

Jesus Christ!!!
I just wanted to yell that.

The Detroit Free Press ran a "Write Your Own Ending" contest. I normally can't stand any type of fan fiction, but thought that the winning entry was good. REALLY good. Good enough that if it aired tonight, I'd consider it a decent ending.

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Postby Fievel on Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:34 pm

Oh, and I think gabbagool/gabbagoul is capicolla.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:37 pm

Jesus Christ wrote:Is gabbagool the same thing as salami? Dumb question, i know. Sorry, i'm not eyetie.

Though you aren't Italian Jesus you are very popular there.

Gabbagool is Italian American slangized pronunciation for Capicola. Capicola if you don't know is a ham like cold cut of cured pork shoulder. It's usually more expensive than other similar ham type cold cuts. So no it's not the same as Salami
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Postby wharto on Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:13 pm

Anyone heard the alleged cameo appearance in tonights episode?
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Postby Fievel on Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:48 pm

wharto wrote:Anyone heard the alleged cameo appearance in tonights episode?


Don't you dare spoil a thing!!!!!!
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Postby wharto on Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:52 pm

Sorry that should have read about the alleged cameo, I am just wondering if anyone else knows of one, not who it is or why they are in it.
Sorry Fievel!! :P
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Postby Fievel on Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:59 pm

I hope Ralphie's toupee makes a cameo.
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Postby Adam Balm on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:10 pm

Okay I got out of bed to watch this and I have to ask...will they be mailing our ending to us later then?

WTF was that?
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Postby Fievel on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:13 pm

Adam Balm wrote:Okay I got out of bed to watch this and I have to ask...will they be mailing our ending to us later then?

WTF was that?


I liked it. I hated it at first, but then thought about it.

-Did the family just have a nice dinner like the one season ending?
-Did that guy come out the the bathroom and kill Tony?
-Did that plane that flew overhead explode?

Nice non-ending. Any true, given ending that put a cap on the Soprano story would have been as much, if not more of, a disappointment.
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Postby DDMAN26 on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:26 pm

I think the ending is open to whatever we want it to be. Kind of like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction.
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Postby Zarles on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:53 pm

The tension in that last scene was overwhelming. There were countless things that could've happened, but the best part about it was that nothing really did. We got a glimpse of what the future for the entire family held, and then just had it left for us to imagine ourselves. If you want to know what might be in store for Tony in the future, for example, re-watch the scene where he's looking into the blank stare of Junior's. That's Tony in about 20 years.

Anything else would've been anticlimactic. This isn't 'Lost' where there's a set number of answers and conclusions that absolutely NEEDED to be arrived at. It's like life - there are rarely big finales or neatly-packaged conclusions in it, either.
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Postby Fievel on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:58 pm

Phil's head went "squish"!!!!!!
That ranks up there in my all-time favorite deaths on the show.
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Postby Zarles on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:59 pm

Agreed. He deserved it, too, the prickly old bastard.

I think Phil, Pussy, and Ralph got the best deaths.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:52 pm

Zarles wrote:The tension in that last scene was overwhelming. There were countless things that could've happened, but the best part about it was that nothing really did. We got a glimpse of what the future for the entire family held, and then just had it left for us to imagine ourselves. If you want to know what might be in store for Tony in the future, for example, re-watch the scene where he's looking into the blank stare of Junior's. That's Tony in about 20 years.

Anything else would've been anticlimactic. This isn't 'Lost' where there's a set number of answers and conclusions that absolutely NEEDED to be arrived at. It's like life - there are rarely big finales or neatly-packaged conclusions in it, either.

I loved them playing the audience against themselves. We're all trained over the years as audience members to expect certain cliches so alluding to them at every turn builds heightened tension without the expected payoffs. Brilliant ending.

Even more so with all the people bitching in the talk backs.
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Postby Adam Balm on Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:23 am

Chairman Kaga wrote:I loved them playing the audience against themselves. We're all trained over the years as audience members to expect certain cliches so alluding to them at every turn builds heightened tension without the expected payoffs. Brilliant ending.

Even more so with all the people bitching in the talk backs.


Mayhaps the bitching may have something to do with audiences not wanting to be 'played'? Some people, especially die-hard fans, don't always take well to being the butt of a joke.
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:27 am

What joke? If it had all been a dream, then yes - that would be a joke. The final minute or so of the ep set up about 20 different endings that could've taken place. It was far more challenging to leave something like that at the end than to stage some silly shootout or something.
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Postby Adam Balm on Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:38 am

Zarles wrote:What joke? If it had all been a dream, then yes - that would be a joke. The final minute or so of the ep set up about 20 different endings that could've taken place. It was far more challenging to leave something like that at the end than to stage some silly shootout or something.


I didn't say it wasn't challenging. It took a lot of effort and thought to set up all those cues to ratchet up the tension, dropping little hints that viewers had learned to pick up on over the years, and then instantly cut to black leaving everyone going 'What...the...fuck?' I didn't mean to give the impression I was saying otherwise. Likewise I don't find it to be a 'cop out' like a lot of people said.

All I know is that my brother stopped watching the Sopranos years ago, saying that he felt like a battered wife with the show. They'd always drag shit out, leave it unresolved, never giving any kind of satisfaction with any story lines. I couldn't exactly argue with him tonight. Maybe it's the fact that I was trying to stay awake during the whole thing (Not the fault of the show, but the fault of pneumonia) and so I was probably more annoyed than I'd normally be. But this wasn't just leaving the story 'open ended'. This felt like a conscious attempt to 'punk' the audience, something that I don't know is such a good idea. I dunno.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:54 am

Audiences deserve to be punked every so often. They yearn for the same cliche over and over and when they don't get it they get "pissy". I'm extremely satisfied with the ending and the show as a whole because it didn't follow age old formulas.
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Postby Adam Balm on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:08 am

Hmm. Can't argue with that.
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Postby Fievel on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:15 am

Adam Balm wrote:But this wasn't just leaving the story 'open ended'. This felt like a conscious attempt to 'punk' the audience, something that I don't know is such a good idea. I dunno.


I respectfully (since you're out with pneumonia) disagree. I think this is the ultimate definition of "open ended" in every sense of the word in that there are so many possibilities. For about 3 or 4 minutes after the show ended, I felt cheated. But the more I think about it (now 3 hours after), the more I'm happy and content with the ending..... or lack of a definitive ending. Why does it need one? It's not a movie or a book. It has been an ongoing series over the past 9 years. They tied up a bunch of points, left some others hanging, and then took the viewers out of that world. There doesn't need to be some big "Ta Daaaaaa!" reveal or ending stamped on it. But these are just my opinions.
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Postby Conroy420 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:31 am

WHAT. A. FUCKING. WASTE.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:43 am

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Postby monorail77 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:49 am

I liked the ending. I choose to think it just goes on and on, it'll just never fucking end with these people; there'll always be some shit or other. Sure, there were visual cues to make you think maybe something would happen, but not enough to be sure. They've played with expectations like that before.

Oh, and best part of the ep: when the FBI agent is told of Phil's death and he shows how happy he is for Tony. Classic reaction.
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:02 am

I agree. 'We're gonna win this thing!' LOL. BTW, the FBI agent's girl getting dressed and putting her gun back on was HOT HOT HOT. Wow.

If they had chosen ANY other ending, it would've been disputed and argued about as well. I thought it was kinda funny to just avoid all the big finale cliches and just leave it as ambiguous and open to definition as possible.
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Postby Evil Hobbit on Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:31 am

Wow, mindblowingly unexpected ending. So many people saying tony is shot, but I don't believe it. Confused, gonna watch some more times soon.
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Postby ONeillSG1 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:06 am

monorail77 wrote:I liked the ending. I choose to think it just goes on and on, it'll just never fucking end with these people; there'll always be some shit or other. Sure, there were visual cues to make you think maybe something would happen, but not enough to be sure. They've played with expectations like that before.


Well that would explain the Journey Song and the other options he did not choose, like "My Way".
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Postby unikrunk on Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:12 am

I have not watched in years due to the show going nowhere -

Did Dr. MILF-E get some dink finally?
Did Tony kill that obnoxious son of his?

/you don't have to answer the above questions, I already know
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:30 am

It felt like an eternity before the credits came up and the initial fade to black. I was on the edge of my seat the entire dinner sequence. Then I felt cheated and now I am in awe.

Chase has always subverted viewers expectations and he did it mindblowing well in the finale.
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Postby so sorry on Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:37 am

stereosforgeeks wrote:It felt like an eternity before the credits came up and the initial fade to black. I was on the edge of my seat the entire dinner sequence. Then I felt cheated and now I am in awe.

Chase has always subverted viewers expectations and he did it mindblowing well in the finale.


A guy here at work said he had his phone in hand ready to dial the cable operator because he thought his HBO had gone out on him... I wonder how many other people had that same reaction at first.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:44 am

Seriously I thought my DVR had screwed me and cut something out!
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Postby Fievel on Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:46 am

so sorry wrote:A guy here at work said he had his phone in hand ready to dial the cable operator because he thought his HBO had gone out on him... I wonder how many other people had that same reaction at first.


After reading the Talkbacks and many news articles, a lot of people did the same thing.

It's amazing now, the morning after. Articles are all around the web, news bits on radio and tv... a lot of it talks about the negative viewer reaction to the ending. So many people feel "cheated" by the lack of a definitive ending. People all around are supposedly canceling their HBO today in protest. :roll:
The Talkbacks are so filled with venom and bile (what's new, eh?) that I feel I need a protective suit just to read the comments.

If you truly hated the way it ended, I just ask this:
-What is truly wrong with not getting any sort of definitive ending to the show, and why do you need one?
-What would have realistically made it better for you?
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Postby so sorry on Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:00 pm

Well, I never watched a minute of the Sopranos, but its the only thing people are talking about today so I know what happened.
I'd feel cheated if I'd invested 9(?) seasons worth of watching to get an ending that definatively doesn't show what becomes of Tony.
Its not a stretch to ask for this, is it? I don't know, like I said I've never seen the show, but it seemed like a strange way to end such a iconic and powerful show.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:12 pm

so sorry wrote:Well, I never watched a minute of the Sopranos, but its the only thing people are talking about today so I know what happened.
I'd feel cheated if I'd invested 9(?) seasons worth of watching to get an ending that definatively doesn't show what becomes of Tony.
Its not a stretch to ask for this, is it? I don't know, like I said I've never seen the show, but it seemed like a strange way to end such a iconic and powerful show.


Actually it was the perfect way to end the show. Most plots had some sort of resolution in the episode. Last scenes with each character were truly iconic.

It's just that last final scene that people are all in a huff about. Personally, I take it as Tony looking at these "questionable" people always looking over his shoulder type of thing. The scene oozed with tension wondering what the possibilities were going to come to fruition, but the show has always been about tony and he will always be looking over hsi shoulder and suspecting the worst. That bullet is always only a second away. The song on the juke boxes last lyrics were even "don't stop" and I dont think things did. Things are definitely changing for the sopranos and theres a world of possibilities ahead... we just will never know.
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:13 pm

It's 6 seasons, so, and believe me - if you'd watched the entire thing and gotten to know the way that David Chase writes and handles a lot of plot points and developments on this show, you'd understand it a lot better.

Just because people's immediate gratification responses weren't fulfilled, they're freaking out. God forbid they should have to think this one through rather than just get some half-assed death scene or drawn-out trial or something. This show has never relied on cliche' to get its points across, so why would it start now?

And yes, I was one of the 'OMG THE CABLE WENT OUT!!1!' people. Halfway through the black sequence at the very end, I said 'What just happened?' Then bang - the credits came up. I knew what happened then.
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:26 pm

I do think the ending was done for a specific reason, besides for the narrative misdirection. It seems to me that the show is primarily about the family, so it was appropriate to end with a "family" moment, but the brief fake-out over whether Tony was going to get whacked or not was to remind us that it's still a very real possibility for him. As in, ending exclusively on a happy family moment might have sent the wrong message, because Tony isn't out of the woods.

To me it was a little disappointing because I always figured that the show had some sort of point it wanted to make, but... urg... I knew what I wanted to say here a second ago. Okay, basically it's like, I thought there was a "thesis" to the show. But to me the ending made it seem like... "there's this family, and the dad is in the mob, and some shit happens, but for now it's whatever." It's not that the finale was ambiguous that disappointed me, but that the show itself is. This is coming from someone who's only watched 3 episodes though, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:35 pm

To me, the point of it was just that 'life goes on whether you like it or not'. Does anyone's life just get summed up and finalized, even in death? The show's always been about the family, so it ended with them and them alone, but also with the ever-present dangers that Tony has been surrounded by since day one - getting wacked, getting arrested, having his family endangered, etc. Life does indeed go on in the very same ways it always has.
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:41 pm

Maybe, but to me that seems like a pretty bland point to spend 8 years making. Almost any TV series, be it about mobsters, or cowboys, or smurfs, could end that way and then say the point of the ending was "life goes on." Of course it does. We don't have to see a show not-end to know that.
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Postby so sorry on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:14 pm

Zarles wrote:To me, the point of it was just that 'life goes on whether you like it or not'. Does anyone's life just get summed up and finalized, even in death? The show's always been about the family, so it ended with them and them alone, but also with the ever-present dangers that Tony has been surrounded by since day one - getting wacked, getting arrested, having his family endangered, etc. Life does indeed go on in the very same ways it always has.


maybe not, but my life isn't a HBO series, wehre millions of people are watching and speculation on the what would happen.

I wouldn't want to speculate on what happens to Tony's life in the future, he's a TV character, so its not a stretch to give a finite ending to his life for the viewers who loved the show.
Again, I've never seen a minute of it, but I know I'd be pisses!
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Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:14 pm

But it was the Anti-Point, really. Everyone expected the big shootout, or the raid on Tony's house, or the witness protection program. To just have it end ambiguously and have Tony's life continue on as it always had seemed to be the show-ending conclusion that very few people expected.

I don't think I'd want it to end any other way, really. The passage of time plays very prominently in this show, and to suggest that time in the Soprano world is just going to carry on whether we like it or not seems very, very appropriate.

edit: so, I respect your thoughts, dude, but the whole 'I've never seen a minute of it' is something I can't get out of my craw. Sorry. :)
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Postby Ribbons on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:20 pm

I was wondering, would it be fruitful to look for parallels between the mob "family" and Tony's actual family? I did notice that the series ended with a shaky truce between both.
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Postby The Vicar on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:23 pm

Ribbons wrote:Maybe, but to me that seems like a pretty bland point to spend 8 years making. Almost any TV series, be it about mobsters, or cowboys, or smurfs, could end that way and then say the point of the ending was "life goes on." Of course it does. We don't have to see a show not-end to know that.


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Postby BuckyO'harre on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:31 pm

Umm, I never watched the show.

Doesn't interest me in the least, but when I heard the ending I thought...



"well yeah... they're leaving it open for the possible movie"



Then today I hear the producers saying it.
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Postby ONeillSG1 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:43 pm

Well, there we go.
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'Damn I Think We're Gonna Win This Thing'

Postby wharto on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:49 pm

I was as surprised as fuck when I heard Harris saying that, but I think after eight years of trying to get to Tony I feel he has gained more than a little grudging admiration for Tony.
As for the ending I liked it but if you look at that final shot of Tony's face is it just me who saw a little flicker of panic on his features??
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Re: 'Damn I Think We're Gonna Win This Thing'

Postby minstrel on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:50 pm

wharto wrote:I was as surprised as fuck when I heard Harris saying that, but I think after eight years of trying to get to Tony I feel he has gained more than a little grudging admiration for Tony.
As for the ending I liked it but if you look at that final shot of Tony's face is it just me who saw a little flicker of panic on his features??


Maybe that was just Gandolfini worrying about where his next paycheck is coming from ...
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Re: 'Damn I Think We're Gonna Win This Thing'

Postby wharto on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:51 pm

minstrel wrote:
wharto wrote:I was as surprised as fuck when I heard Harris saying that, but I think after eight years of trying to get to Tony I feel he has gained more than a little grudging admiration for Tony.
As for the ending I liked it but if you look at that final shot of Tony's face is it just me who saw a little flicker of panic on his features??


Maybe that was just Gandolfini worrying about where his next paycheck is coming from ...


I am sure he has that worry.
Why do so many people seem to demand to have things spelled out for them?? The ending wasn't as ambiguous as people have made out.
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Re: 'Damn I Think We're Gonna Win This Thing'

Postby Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:52 pm

wharto wrote:I was as surprised as fuck when I heard Harris saying that, but I think after eight years of trying to get to Tony I feel he has gained more than a little grudging admiration for Tony.
As for the ending I liked it but if you look at that final shot of Tony's face is it just me who saw a little flicker of panic on his features??


Actually, I think Harris might've been more relieved to get Phil out of the way so he could go after Tony himself. He'd become friends and associates with him over the years, but it's still his job. Tony knows that, too.

Regarding Tony's facial expression at the end, yeah, there was something there. I read somewhere else that he looked away from the door right before the screen went black, and not towards it to greet Meadow as we'd expected him to do. Haven't re-watched it to examine that yet, though...
Last edited by Zarles on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Will Scarlet on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:53 pm

Initially I was really pissed at the ending. I wanted the blood and guts. I was hoping:

Scenario #1: The whole family would witnessnesses Tony getting taken out. Them and their onion rings wearing Tony...

Scenario#2: The whole family gets taken out. Ok, I like Carm, but I've always hated the kids, especially A.J. Still can't believe I was denied his death, the big loser.

All this lust for blood was I fear a result in my having been disappointed in the whole season, and last year's too. The loss of Christopher really did me in, and I wanted Tony to die!

However, after much thought, I have to agree it was in fact a very good ending. We can imagine anything we like. It was certainly not what people expected. The tinkle of the bell, a flash of Meadow and then darkness, the whole family together as it began....

w.s.
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Will Scarlet
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Re: 'Damn I Think We're Gonna Win This Thing'

Postby so sorry on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:55 pm

wharto wrote:Why do so many people seem to demand to have things spelled out for them??


Because:

a.) I am an idiot and I don't like to think for myself and
b.) I didn't create the character, so why should I have to figure out what happens to Tony?


But mostly because I'm an idiot...
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so sorry
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