magicmonkey wrote:Manhunt 2 Banned in the UK.
Story
Seems like Rockstar overstepped the mark, whatever the mark is for making a buck.
Issuing a certificate to Manhunt 2 would risk the possibility of "unjustifiable harm" to adults and minors, the BBFC concluded.
ThisIsTheGirl wrote:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
WHAT HAPPENS TO MY PRE-ORDER NOW?![]()
Worst news I've had all day.
A game like Scarface passes into the country without so much as a whisper of dissent. Become a coke Baron and deliver your enemies a swift chainsaw death? No problem, meng! But it seems that Manhunt 2 has pushed some invisible, indefinable boundary too far. I HATE the BBFC - why the hell are they in charge of game ratings?
Australia uses PAL, don't they? Looks like I'll be handing MonkeyM666 some cash at his leaving drinks. What a joke - I've been looking forward to this for ages. I'll get my PAL copy one way or the other, but this is another nail in the coffin of the BBFC's credibility....
ThisIsTheGirl wrote:I'll keep my fingers crossed about that, Monkey. If it gets banned in OZ? What would my options be? I have a bad feeling that the only other way I could get a PAL one would be to import from Europe - but would that mean that the game wouldn't be in english?
This news has completely thrown me, Manhunt 2 was the big game I was looking forward to this month.
PS - that article says that Carmageddon was the last title banned in the UK, but I'm sure Thrill Kill came after that - wasn't that one banned too?
Evil Hobbit wrote:Can't believe there aint a topic yet about this one.
from gamespot:Manhunt 2 banned in UK wrote:Rockstar Games' Manhunt 2 has achieved the dubious honour of being only one of two games to be banned in the UK. The highly anticipated upcoming title, which casts gamers in the role of doctor Daniel Lam--who offers himself as a guinea pig for a neurological weapons project--was due to go on sale in the country on the Wii, PlayStation Portable, and PlayStation 2 on July 13. However, both the PS2 and Wii versions have been refused a rating by the British Board of Film Classification, meaning they cannot be legally sold in the UK. The PSP version has not yet been submitted to the BBFC for a rating.
The reasoning behind the decision is that, according to BBFC director David Cooke, "Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing. There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game."
Cooke says that the decision is not one that the board has taken lightly, and that where possible, it considers cuts or modifications to the game to remove offensive material. However, in the case of Manhunt 2 "this has not been possible."
The first game in the series, Manhunt, was given an 18 rating by the BBFC when it was released back in 2003. However, Cooke stated that, "Although the difference should not be exaggerated, the fact of the game's unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game." He added that the first title was already "at the very top end" of what it considered acceptable for an 18 certificate, and that it came before the results of recent BBFC research were released.
The game has been refused a certificate on both the Wii and PlayStation 2 platforms, as to release it would "involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors." The board adds that even if the game was confined to an adult release, it would "still be unacceptable to the public."
The game is the first to be refused a classification since Carmageddon in 1997. The car combat game developed by SCi and published by Interplay allowed racers to destroy opponents and murder pedestrians. However, the decision to refuse classification of Carmageddon was overturned on appeal by the Video Appeals Committee.
UK games industry body ELSPA released a statement from director Paul Jackson, which said, "A decision from the BBFC such as this demonstrates that we have a games ratings system in the UK that is effective. It shows it works and works well. Any decision the BBFC takes, it takes on the basis of its remit to rate onscreen entertainment."
The BBFC statement concluded that the game's distributors would also have the right to appeal the decision. Rockstar Games had not returned calls to comment as of press time.
[UPDATE] The Irish Film Censor's Office has also announced that the game has been banned in the Republic of Ireland. In a statement, the board gave its reasoning as follows, "IFCO recognizes that in certain films, DVDs and video games, strong graphic violence may be a justifiable element within the overall context of the work. However, in the case of Manhunt 2, IFCO believes that there is no such context, and the level of gross, unrelenting and gratuitous violence is unacceptable."
again from gamespot:Sony, Nintendo forbid AO-rated Manhunt 2 wrote:
When Take-Two Interactive yesterday confirmed that the Entertainment Software Rating Board handed down a rating of AO for Adults Only for Rockstar Games' Manhunt 2 on the PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, and Nintendo Wii, the publisher said it was exploring its options.
GameSpot has confirmed with Nintendo and Sony that one of those options, which would be to accept the ESRB's judgment and release the game with the AO rating, isn't an option at all. Both companies forbid licensed third-party publishers from releasing games rated AO for Adults Only on their various hardware platforms. Though Manhunt 2 isn't slated for any of Microsoft's systems, the company has also confirmed that it does not allow AO-rated titles on the Xbox or Xbox 360.
The sole exception to this rule was in 2005 when the already released Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was retroactively rated AO, at which point retailers pulled it from shelves and Take-Two suspended production of the game.
"It's currently our policy not to allow the playback of AO-rated content on our systems," a Sony spokesperson told GameSpot.
Nintendo's official line was much the same. "Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres, and ratings," a representative told GameSpot. "These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television, and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That's why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems."
Take-Two's most readily available alternatives are to appeal the ESRB's AO rating or to modify the game. As of press time, a Rockstar Games representative had not responded to GameSpot's inquiry about how either move would impact the game's scheduled July 10 release date.
Thankfully I live in the Netherlands and even though a promotion greedy politic has already tried to get it banned here the game's gonna be released no matter what on July 13. It'll hit stores with an 18+ rating and can be bought at every gamesshop around the country. Thank god I live in the Netherlands.
But what a bashing and hype around this game. I think it's weird AO games are so out of bounds.
Here is a reviewcomputerandvideogames.com wrote: By now you should know that the BBFC has refused to rate Rockstar's Manhunt 2 on Wii and PS2, meaning that it can't be legally supplied anywhere in the UK. The game was due to be released in a few weeks and UK Nintendo mag NGamer has the exclusive Wii review. CVG picks apart its review of the game you'll now never play.
NGamer's review opens with: "We're certainly not of the opinion that Wii is a family-friendly box piping Nintendo goodness directly into the living rooms of grannies and toddlers around the country. Given the number of times we've strangled for pennies in The Godfather and kneecapped for fun in Resi 4, we have bloody and conclusive evidence to the contrary. Nintendo has long since stopped beating third-party developers with its censor-stick.
"But this... we can't help but be slightly taken aback by its appearance on a Nintendo console. Not surprised, and certainly not shocked, but perhaps a little - excited? - to see the bright white Wii menu fade into the darkness of what is indisputably the most gruesome videogame we've ever played on any platform."
The magazine labels Manhunt 2 as "one of the best games on Wii" citing the astonishing level of brutality is an integral part of the experience. And it's the brutality of the game that the BBFC took into account before effectively banning its release. It says the game "would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors."
The Wii version obviously takes the murdering side of things to the extreme with the motion controlled interface, and this element is undoubtedly the main reason most people would have liked to have picked up the Wii version. "...holding the A button starts to wind up an execution," says the mag. "An icon appears in the corner of the screen, showing a simple Nunchuk or remote motion, which you must copy to initiate the killing."
The review then goes on to explain, "Each execution has several stages, activated by a chopping motion, or a prod, or a slam to the floor, or a sawing movement" and "executions are much more physical with the Wii controls, and we found we felt more immersed in the game world in general thanks to them."
NGamer calls it one of the best-looking games on Wii to date before summing up: "A lot of people are going to be offended by it, for its copious violence and occasional sex scene, and somebody, somewhere is going to get a shock when they walk in on a friend laterally bisecting a hunter's head with realistic sawing motions. Manhunt 2 is what Wii's parental controls are for. The sticker on the box says it's for over 18s only and, believe us, it's not wrong.
"We've deliberately avoided talking about the game's more grisly excesses because these things are best discovered for yourself. You'll wince, you'll jump, you may even laugh at times, but we can guarantee you'll never forget it." The magazine gave the Wii version an impressive 92%.
godzillasushi wrote:Anyway, it just bugs me that they decide this game is bad. That after 15 years of some of the most violent video games ever made, now this one is considered bad. I guess snapping necks in Metal Gear Solid and blasting everything that moves in Halo and freaking getting chainsawed in half on Resident Evil 4 isn't as bad as this.![]()
Some moron at Nintendo wrote:Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres, and ratings. These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television, and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That's why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems.
Fawst wrote:Some moron at Nintendo wrote:Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres, and ratings. These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television, and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That's why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems.
Fucking HUH??? Basically that entire paragraph is a setup to a punchline, because it's a fucking JOKE. If anyone needs a translation, what that says is "Nintendo caters to a large audience, but MATURE, FREE-THINKING ADULTS, you know, the ones who can afford to purchase the systems, are left out in the cold."
Fuck this noise. Fuck it hard, because we're getting fucked. The thing that really upsets and disturbs me isn't violence in video games. It's the fact that a ratings board exists that has the ability to rate a game in such a way that causes it to be unreleasable on any system outside of the PC platform. Then again, that could change at any moment. Microsoft doesn't allow AO titles on the Xbox/360, so how long until they include the Windows family in that lineup?
I'm thoroughly disgusted with this news. Good job covering your asses Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. Thanks for making sure that adults are punished and children, once again, are safe everywhere from the evils of reality.
<middle finger on right hand faces Japan, middle finger on left faces Redmond, WA>
godzillasushi wrote:Nintendo deserves flak on this, totally. Sure they have had that same sort of statement for 20 years MonkeyM, but they have also been part of it.
Like my previously mentioned Bio Freaks, terrible game, also very violent. They put out Advance Wars right? "For the child that hasn't learned about modern warfare yet, here's an accessible learning tool."
They allowed Goldeneye, Mortal Kombat (You know, the new one for the Wii where you can still rip people's limbs off and stuff like that), and Resident Evil 4. They allowed those games.....right?!?!?!? They're re-releasing RE4!!!!!
MonkeyM666 wrote:godzillasushi wrote:Nin tendo deserves flak on this, totally. Sure they have had that same sort of statement for 20 years MonkeyM, but they have also been part of it.
Like my previously mentioned Bio Freaks, terrible game, also very violent. They put out Advance Wars right? "For the child that hasn't learned about modern warfare yet, here's an accessible learning tool."
They allowed Goldeneye, Mortal Kombat (You know, the new one for the Wii where you can still rip people's limbs off and stuff like that), and Resident Evil 4. They allowed those games.....right?!?!?!? They're re-releasing RE4!!!!!
RE4 is horror/fantasy.... Zombies and shit; Mortal combat is a fighting game that is obviously a game with the Ninja's; Power bars, 6 armed bosses; Golden eye was blocky and not very realistic and is based on a franchise that is not AO. It's not a real looking next gen guy ripping off another real looking guys head and fucking it. There’s a line in the sand and that crosses it for Nintendo. Nintendo are family orientated company, we all know that as they’ve always been like that. I just think that it’s silly do give them stick now just because they’ve done what they always do. I’d be more pissed at Microsoft or Sony as they’re the one’s who have the violent games and have passed on Manhunt 2 this time.
MonkeyM666 wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying that it's not crap that it's been banned but I'm just saying that everyone seems pissed at a company who is, by and large, soft. Just because they have a couple of titles doesn’t mean that they're going to change everything they're about.
I know what you boys are saying; my point is that you have other fish to be pissed at rather then Nintendo in this instance.
(man, I sound like a Ninten-phile or something…:?)
godzillasushi wrote:MonkeyM666 wrote:Yea h, I'm not saying that it's not crap that it's been banned but I'm just saying that everyone seems pissed at a company who is, by and large, soft. Just because they have a couple of titles doesn’t mean that they're going to change everything they're about.
I know what you boys are saying; my point is that you have other fish to be pissed at rather then Nintendo in this instance.
(man, I sound like a Ninten-phile or something…:?)
Heh, yea your Nintendo-fanboyism is strong in this thread![]()
Anyway, Nintendo is saying one thing and doing another. We can't release an AO game because it has two letters instead of an M or a T. They have a couple of titles, but those titles have been so violent! I can name 5 violent games on Nintendo consoles. While it's only 5 titles, there's still more violence crammed into them then 20 on the Xbox. You physically move your Wii controller when you attack in these shooters. So you're basically making stabbing and hitting motions. Nintendo has always been this console maker that would avoid a majority of the violent titles, but would still allow the worst of the worst.
They just seem, flaky. Always have been.
(And hey, I only know all this because I own all these consoles. I've played it all, seen it all.)
godzillasushi wrote:Violence is violence. I promise you MK has more blood and gore then Manhunt 2.
Fawst wrote:Monkey, the thing is, I don't even CARE about Manhunt 2. I never played the first, I wasn't that interested, but this one looked like it might be fun to check out.
Nintendo TOTALLY deserves to be railed against, right along with Sony and MS. They made Lucasarts re-code Maniac Mansion on the NES because their CENSORS didn't notice that you could nuke the hamster when using the male or female "rocker" characters. Yes, their CENSORS, the exact word used in Nintendo Power back in the day when that little bit of info came out.
My problem is this: I am an adult, I have the right to choose what I view and do not view. Ratings don't matter for me because of this fact. In the future, I will use them in combination with my own opinion to decide what games any children I may have can or cannot play. I can, and do, enjoy "adult entertainment" on my 360's DVD drive. I find it hypocritical that THAT material can be played on an MS system, but a game can't. So just to be sure my point gets across, MS outright bans digital depictions of acts that I can see HUMANS performing on the same system (there is a sequence in Manhunt 2 where you see a man getting an "enthusiastic" lapdance, according to one review).
My other problem, and I've stated this before, is that I cannot STAND the over the top actions taken by glorified hall monitors who decide what I can and can't play. Or see on television. Or listen to on the radio. Television is the big one for me. There is a V-chip FOR A REASON. So that things deemed inappropriate for children can be blocked out of homes where children can see it. You don't need to remove the content entirely. You don't need to cut down on what's available. There is a check and balance in place to handle that.
Much like this current fiasco. There is a ratings board that tells us what rating a game gets. If it's AO, sell it at Amazing Video if EB/Gamestop won't. If Blockbuster won't put it on their shelf, maybe GameFly will make it available. The point is, people who actually do make rational decisions for themselves and their children are being punished because of conservative "values." I fucking hate that.
Fawst wrote:Monkey, the thing is, I don't even CARE about Manhunt 2. I never played the first, I wasn't that interested, but this one looked like it might be fun to check out.
Nintendo TOTALLY deserves to be railed against, right along with Sony and MS. They made Lucasarts re-code Maniac Mansion on the NES because their CENSORS didn't notice that you could nuke the hamster when using the male or female "rocker" characters. Yes, their CENSORS, the exact word used in Nintendo Power back in the day when that little bit of info came out.
Fawst wrote:Oh, I love me my Nintendo, don't get me wrongSome of the best games ever created exist because of them. I just hate censorship, and hiding behind the children to justify it.
seppukudkurosawa wrote:godzillasushi wrote:Violence is violence. I promise you MK has more blood and gore then Manhunt 2.
Yeah, but I don't recall any MK character having a finishing move where you get to skullfuck Jax until his head falls apart.
I'm pretty sure the BBFC would censor a scene like that if it were featured in a movie, so I'm not surprised they apply the same logic to the games industry. It's either a matter of passing everything indiscriminately, or knuckling down on a select few games. There's no doubt in my mind that Rockstar intentionally tried to skirt the edges of what they thought they'd get away with- it's their whole thing, isn't it?
Sepp wrote:Also, to say that all violence is the same is a bit naive. Tone is a big factor here, though one that's pretty subjective. The original Manhunt, though still a little tongue in cheek, went a little further than GTA's bloodsplats on the street.
papalazeru wrote:It's all stupid Mothers who wish to blame everything else rather than the fact that they would rather go out to work then look after their children (or fathers for that matter). They would rather plonk them in front of the TV and expect that to be a solution, then when things go wrong....because a child can't question a TV....they blame TV...the game....the movie....the magazine.....the toy...etcetera
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