Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:You know, this movie is what it is. A kid's film.
buster00 wrote:Well, I put it off long enough. I finally saw FF2 at the dollar cinema today.
Yeah, it's just as bad as the first one.
I don't know what it is about the Fantastic Four. What makes it so difficult to bring this property into another medium? The movies, every incarnation of the cartoons -- absolute garbage, all of them. The only thing that works for them seems to be the printed page.
It's a really sad state of affairs when the best Marvel movie of the year turns out to have been Ghost Rider.
I'm being generous when I give this a 2/10.
Leckomaniac wrote:One just needs to look at The Incredible to see what an FF film COULD be.
Chilli wrote:Can anyone here pick out an FF graphic novel that they think could be adapted sufficiently for public enjoyment?
Because so far, no-one has. The people who hate the film have said the FF works as a comic, but from what I've read (the original batch, first Galactus etc) they weren't particularly inspiring. It was a case of great characters, patchy stories.
Pacino86845 wrote:Besides that Alba was the single worst component of the entire film, and if they went to such great pains to make her look like Scarlett Johansson, why not cast Scarlett Johansson in the first place?
Pacino86845 wrote:HAHHAHA, nicely said havoc.
Chiklis was good in the role, but he got really short-changed in this movie... he doesn't actually do much except for provide some comic relief now and then.
I have a feeling that The Thing received the Gimli treatment this time around, but I can't be sure since I haven't seen the first FF.
The Gimli Treatment: (Gim-Lee Treatment) Refers to how a character is changed for sequels in order to pander to the lowest common viewer denominator. Gimli was a fairly well-rounded secondary character in Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, who mainly served as comic relief in the following two films.
havocSchultz wrote:The f/x were better than the first...
But not as good as Cha-ka could do...
Pacino86845 wrote:Gimli was a fairly well-rounded secondary character in Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, who mainly served as comic relief in the following two films.
DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:Pacino86845 wrote:Gimli was a fairly well-rounded secondary character in Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, who mainly served as comic relief in the following two films.
Hehehehe... it's a 'cos a the midgets, they are a the funny, no?
With a their little doll pants anna such...
Chilli wrote:I dig the films well enough, but Doom is pretty useless in them. If they got him right (in other words, Rickman's voice) then the films would be much better than they appear.
seppukudkurosawa wrote:Chilli wrote:I dig the films well enough, but Doom is pretty useless in them. If they got him right (in other words, Rickman's voice) then the films would be much better than they appear.
RICKMAN?! Seriously? He's called Dr Doom, not Dr Mildly Distracting. He'd still have been better than McMahon, though.
seppukudkurosawa wrote:Chilli wrote:I dig the films well enough, but Doom is pretty useless in them. If they got him right (in other words, Rickman's voice) then the films would be much better than they appear.
RICKMAN?! Seriously? He's called Dr Doom, not Dr Mildly Distracting. He'd still have been better than McMahon, though.
Stanley wrote:You are a person I do not respect. The things you say, your actions, your methods and style. Everything that you would do, I would do the opposite way.
MasterWhedon wrote:I finally watched this last night and I can now say, categorically, that it is complete and utter horseshit. Everything, every-damn-thing about this movie feels forced and wrong and cheap and insulting.
Shortly after, I watched the episode "Did I Stutter?" from The Office, and I think Stanley's words to Michael sum it up perfectly:Stanley wrote:You are a person I do not respect. The things you say, your actions, your methods and style. Everything that you would do, I would do the opposite way.
This turd and Ghost Rider are on the same level, IMO. 3/10
MasterWhedon wrote:I finally watched this last night and I can now say, categorically, that it is complete and utter horseshit.
Maui wrote:MasterWhedon wrote:I finally watched this last night and I can now say, categorically, that it is complete and utter horseshit.
I did too. I think it was on HBO or SHO.
That silver surfer looked so fake. Especially when he was riding in the ship with the rest of the F4.
Peven wrote:Maui wrote:MasterWhedon wrote:I finally watched this last night and I can now say, categorically, that it is complete and utter horseshit.
I did too. I think it was on HBO or SHO.
That silver surfer looked so fake. Especially when he was riding in the ship with the rest of the F4.
definitely too silvery.....
Maui wrote:MasterWhedon wrote:I finally watched this last night and I can now say, categorically, that it is complete and utter horseshit.
I did too. I think it was on HBO or SHO. It was rather craptastic!
That silver surfer looked so fake. Especially when he was riding in the ship with the rest of the F4.
MasterWhedon wrote:Maui wrote:MasterWhedon wrote:I finally watched this last night and I can now say, categorically, that it is complete and utter horseshit.
I did too. I think it was on HBO or SHO. It was rather craptastic!
That silver surfer looked so fake. Especially when he was riding in the ship with the rest of the F4.
Actually, I thought he looked great when he was depowered and it was Doug Jones in a deep gray body suit.
Ryan J. Downey wrote:How's this sound as an opening sequence? Adoring groupies cram New York's Fifth Avenue, hoping to catch a glimpse of the Invisible Woman and Mr. Fantastic, played by Charlize Theron and "Angel"'s Alexis Denisof. The Thing, voiced by John C. Reilly, rips the top off an armored car and yanks out two would-be robbers. Paul Walker shouts, "flame on!" as his Johnny Storm character ignites into the Human Torch, saving a female fan from another thief's rocket launcher.
Two hours later, just before the credits role on "The Fantastic Four," New York's favorite superheroes buzz away in their Fantastic Car, with Johnny dropping 8x10 photos to fans in a scene shamelessly lifted from the Beatles' "A Hard Day's Night."
That's what audiences will see if all goes according to plan for "Fantastic Four" screenwriter Doug Petrie, who together with director Peyton Reed ("Bring It On") is bringing one of Marvel Comics' most beloved properties to the big screen.
"The big debate between everybody was giant monster or no giant monster," Petrie said of the flick's proposed opening scene. "I wanted the poster for the movie to be the cover for the first issue, where basically you do a live-action version of a giant monster ripping through Fifth Avenue and Fantastic Four kicking its ass. For budget reasons, it went to something else, but it's still a giant opening scene. It's 'A Hard Days Night.' It's everybody going to watch the Beatles.
"The big reason I got hired was that the scripts that were done before, by pretty big-name guys, were origin stories," explained Petrie, whose credits include several episodes of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer."
"[The other scripts] were very big on 'these are astronauts that go to space' for the first, like, half-hour," he said. "It was something like 'Armageddon.' I just kept saying it's got to be like 'A Hard Day's Night.' "
In the established Marvel Comics mythos, the Fantastic Four — Dr. Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic), wife Susan Storm (the Invisible Woman), her brother Johnny Storm (the Human Torch) and Benjamin Grimm (the Thing) — gained superpowers after an experimental rocketship ride bombarded them with radiation. Together as the Fantastic Four, they live together in the Baxter Building and battle supervillains like the Mole Man and their arch-nemesis, the metal-masked Dr. Victor Von Doom.
Casting hasn't begun on "The Fantastic Four," and Petrie of course is no casting director, but in addition to his hopes of grabbing Reilly, Denisof, Theron and Walker, he'd love to see Jude Law as Dr. Doom.
"We had a huge, huge series of discussions on the look of Dr. Doom," Petrie said. "We really had to focus on the Fantastic Four, and Victor's origin had to be tied into their origin. We played him as the Pete Best of the Fantastic Four. He gets screwed out of the superpowers, so he made himself who he is. ... The Marvel guys were very high on showing the actor's face. ... I hope I'm not spilling too many secrets. But I got caught up with how to show his face but keep the scariness of a guy in a mask.
"I wanted the big reveal to be [that] the mask is a high-tech thing that can separate and retract off his face when he wants it to," he continued. "You see that he's unbelievably handsome. ... But it doesn't end there. When he's handsome, he's lying. When his real character comes out, his face starts to sag and melt and scarify in this horrible way. And what you learn is that his face got so smashed upon his re-entry — he was one of the original astronauts — he's literally falling apart. And the mask is the only thing keeping him together."
"The Fantastic Four" movie will mostly skip the back-story and begin in a New York where the team already exists — in a world where, unlike "X-Men," they are anything but antiheroes.
"They're the biggest celebrities in New York City," Petrie explained. "To the world outside, they are the world's coolest superheroes. [But] when they get home, they just fight with each other about everything. They order pizzas and argue about who gets the better costumes and stuff like that. It's a family comedy when they get behind closed doors."
With Mr. Fantastic's elastic ability, the Thing's rocky orange hide and the Human Torch's fiery body, budget constraints have kept a decent "Fantastic Four" movie from theaters (most fans cringe at the widely bootlegged but never officially released 1994 "Fantastic Four"). But now, thanks to the success of "Spider-Man," the big-budget "Fantastic Four" is going ahead at 20th Century Fox.
"There's a tremendous amount of pressure to get this movie made," Petrie said, "and to get it right and to cash in on the mania that obviously exists out there and the need for superhero stories."
"The Fantastic Four" is scheduled for a 2004 release.
Mark Frost, is perhaps best known as a co-creator of Twin Peaks, with David Lynch, but he also dipped his toes in the comic book movie genre with screenwriting duties on both of director Tim Story and 20th Century Fox's Fantastic Four films. See what he had do say.
Mark Frost has worn many hats in his life; an acclaimed television writer for NBC's police drama Hill Street Blues, co-creator of the groundbreaking television series Twin Peaks, a film producer (" The Greatest Game Ever Played"), a novelist ("The Paladin Prophecy"), and a screenwriter for Fantastic Four and Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer.
Recently, Frost participated in an interview with the site, Portable, and he discussed working on Tim Story's superhero films, which starred; Jessica Alba as Sue Storm/The Invisible Woman, Ioan Gruffudd as Reed Richards/Mr. Fantastic, Michael Chiklis as Ben Grimm/The Thing, and Chris "Captain America" Evans as Johnny Storm/The Human Torch.Portable: You worked on the Fantastic Four movies. What’s it like working with someone else’s characters and a pre-established story and adding your own story to that?
Mark Frost: The first movie was a lot fun because I’d collected Fantastic Four as a kid and had a lot of affections for, so they were stories I was very familiar with. The studio had tried to develop the thing for about ten years and it had fallen flat and gone in all sorts of different directions. I kind of steered them back to the original conceptions, the original ideas, the point. In a way it was like working with old friends, these were characters I’d known for 40 years. It was a little different than working with an adaptation that was brand new to me, with characters I didn’t know.
The second movie never really had much of a chance, it had kind of an ass-backwards development where they had named a release date but they didn’t have a movie to go out on that day. The second movie is a bit less effective than the first one, but that was a little different than a straight adaptation. These characters have been around for so long that they’re almost in our collective unconscious of pop culture, so it wasn’t that difficult.
P: Did you feel like you were adding your own voice to a modern myth? The collective unconscious made me think of Jung and Joseph Campbell.
Mark Frost: You’re trying to speak to those characters in the way they spoke to you, bring them up as the archetypes they were originally assigned to be.
P: So to fill the hole they filled back then, while considering the differences in culture?
Mark Frost: Right. I think our infatuation with superhero movies in the last 15 years speaks to that very thing, that interest in trying to form a mythology for a culture, particularly one as diverse and fast-moving as ours. It’s pretty difficult. As the 21st century came on us this set of characters from those books — characters many people first encountered as kids — have suddenly assumed this place of primacy in our collective storytelling. In some ways its a little alarming — they’re not the most mature characters you’ll come across, but at the same time they do address things collectively that are under the surface. These are issues that many people deal with like, identity, and anxiety and “what’s my ultimate role” and “is there such a thing as salvation?” All these things are in these books, these comic books.
P: Did comics and superhero stories help formulate your views of storytelling?
Mark Frost: I was a big Marvel character as a kid, I read a few DC books as well, but they were kinda like the Democrat and Republican party of comics: we didn’t have all the great indie labels that have sprung up since then. Marvel in the way was the upstart, DC had been around for a couple of decades before. I identify pretty strongly with the Marvel brand, and identify with their whole stable of characters.
Source: portable
Dave Richards wrote:Over the past few years many of Marvel Comics characters have leapt from the four-color page to the big screen. Big name characters like The X-Men and Spider-Man have successful film franchises behind them and even a lesser known character like Blade has his own trilogy. However Marvel's first family, The Fantastic Four, the characters that helped launch the "House of Ideas" have yet to star in a big budget feature film, not counting the never released Roger Corman B-Movie style adaptation of course.
This all changes on July 8th with the release of "Fantastic Four" starring Michael Chiklis as the Thing, Jessica Alba as the Invisible Girl, Ioan Gruffudd as Mr. Fantastic, Chris Evans as the Human Torch and Julian McMahon as the FF's arch-enemy Dr.Doom. CBR News spoke to "Fantastic Four" co-writer Michael France via e-mail about the film and what it was like adapting the adventures of Marvel's First Family for the silver screen.
When France, a long time fan of the "Fantastic Four," heard that producer Chris Columbus was developing a Fantastic Four movie with Fox he had to get involved. "I pushed hard for it, and found that Chris and I both were really driven by a love for the original books," France told CBR News. "I wound up taking original comics from the 1960s into the first meetings. Ever since I was a kid and knew that I wanted to write for movies, there were two things in particular that I wanted to adapt - James Bond and 'Fantastic Four' and I've been lucky enough to do both."
The run of "Fantastic Four" that France enjoys the most is the series original. "I'm a huge fan of the original Lee/Kirby books. I was reading them constantly while writing my drafts," France said. "I love the rough, crazy imaginative quality of the first twenty five or so issues, that set up so many of the major characters, villains and situations. I love the comedic stuff in that period (like when Mr. Fantastic hypnotizes the shape shifting Skrulls to become cows). My favorite books are from the middle of the Lee/Kirby run; probably from around forty through eighty, which had an explosive, massively scaled cinematic quality. Stories like the arrival of Galactus and the Silver Surfer, the coming of the Inhumans, Doom getting unlimited power. They called this 'the world's greatest comic magazine,' and that wasn't just hype. Tell me what was better in that period. Hell, tell me what's better now!"
France was reluctant to reveal too many plot details about the film. "It depicts the origin of the Fantastic Four as a team," he explained. "Much of the storyline tracks their evolution as a family-- the way four very separate people come together as an indivisible unit."
While France used the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four comics as his guide and tried be as faithful as possible, he did have to make some changes for the film. "The origin effectively has Reed and Ben stealing a rocket ship-- we're fine up to that point-- but when Sue is coming along because she's Reed's girlfriend and Johnny is coming because he's Sue's brother, it gets a little dicey," France said. "I needed a better reason for them all to go into space. So I had Reed going up to the space station controlled by Doom so they could cooperate on an experiment, and Sue went with him not just as his girlfriend but also as his partner and as a scientist in her own right. I had Ben going as a pilot, but I really changed Johnny-- he's no longer a punk high school kid, I made him a pilot as well who has a back story with Ben, his old instructor."
In the film Reed Richards and Ben Grimm are still old college friends. France did not have the two as friends in his original script. His co-writer Mark Frost returned that detail from the comics to the script. "In my scripts, Ben was a pilot recruited by Reed to fly him up to the space station, and he resented taking orders from Reed," France explained. "He resented Reed a lot more after he was turned into a monster. But by the end of my scripts, and by the end of the movie, it's clear that these guys are best friends who would do anything for each other. Ben and Reed have a very interesting relationship in that they're both bound together, and torn apart, by the accident that gave them powers. I really enjoyed writing scenes dealing with the complexity of that relationship, and fortunately a lot of that has come through in the movie."
France worked the Fantastic Four's costumes into the movie in a very natural way. "I took what seemed to me to be a simple approach to the costumes: it didn't seem out of line for the uniform jumpsuit type clothes to be something they all would wear while in space," France said. "And it seemed reasonable to me that the clothes would be affected the same way as each individual when the accident happens. (They just have to make sure that they label the clothes correctly later, or Johnny would be in for some trouble after wearing Reed's suit.) So the fact that they have to wear the outfits is developed as sort of a necessity and an accident, not really by design. I wanted them to not feel like costumes, but to feel like functional outfits that they just have to wear."
When France was writing "Fantastic Four," which was years before the release of the "Ultimate Fantastic Four" comic, he decided to tie Dr. Doom and the Fantastic Four's origin together. "They are all in space together on a space station under Doom's control, and the result is that when they mutate, so does Doom, developing some metallic skin as well as eventually donning the classic armor," France said. "As much as I love the Doom origin in the comics, that's a movie in itself, and I wanted to find a way to keep his character closely involved with the others."
France's co-writer also altered Doom's character for the film. "Mark Frost later made a significant change by making Doom an industrialist who has romantic feelings for Sue, and therefore he has great cause to try to make Reed look small in front of her. That was an interesting character dynamic. In the film, Doom retains a kind of mysterious Latverian back story, and while he's dealt with definitively in the film, just like in the old Marvel comics, you shouldn't be surprised if you see him again in future films."
When writing "Fantastic Four," France decided to give the film a unusual tone for a comic book movie. "We thought we'd do something that's novel for a comic book movie. The tone is fun," France said. "Just for a change, we thought we'd make a movie that was fun, not dark, brooding or ultra-violent. That doesn't mean campy, and it doesn't mean that there aren't dramatic moments, because there certainly are (particularly with Ben's tragic situation). But when I was writing this thing, I felt like a nine year old kid, and I hope that everyone watching the movie taps into that kind of excitement too."
When adapting the "Fantastic Four" comics, France felt one of the essential qualities that needed to be captured for the film was the realistic character dynamics and relationships. "There really is no other set of characters in comics like the Fantastic Four. They seem a bit more realistic than other heroes-- they're a genuine family, they bicker, they don't have secret identities, but they do have money problems and each has to separately deal with their fame," France explained. "In other words, they act like real people would act if they were put in this astounding situation. Combine the realism of the characters with the huge, huge world of adventure they live in. These are people who live in an enormously scaled world, with space travel, superpowers, and so on, but that world feels fun and real because of the characters who are taking you through it."
One of the most challenging aspects for France was capturing and adequately exploring the number of character relationships and dynamics in the film. "One of the things that's absolute murder about writing 'Fantastic Four' is that you have to have beginnings, middles and ends for multiple dysfunctional relationships spread out amongst the four main characters, and you really have to give all of them equal weight," France said. "Reed and Sue are in love, but Reed is insecure about his relationship and buries himself in his work, while Sue wants more attention from him. Ben and Reed are best friends who are simultaneously bound together and torn apart by the accident that gave them powers-- Ben hates being a monster, blames Reed and wants a cure, and Reed feels guilty but also stressed about the pressure Ben is putting on him. Ben and Johnny have a 'best of enemies' relationship. They're constantly feuding, but Johnny feels he has to prove himself to Ben and the truth is they'd do anything for each other. Johnny and Sue are brother and sister and love each other, but Sue thinks Johnny needs to grow up and Johnny resents her motherly attitude. Ben has a romance not just with Alicia, but with someone else who has big problems with the relationship once he develops his skin problem. This is a lot of different relationship threads you have to deal with in the course of a two-hour science fiction adventure. It's quite a balancing act, but I think we pulled it off. Again, the core of the movie is following all these different relationships and showing that even though they have problems once in a while, they all will come together when it counts to help each other as a team, no matter what the cost."
France feels that the family aspect of the FF and the realistic characters are what will capture the imaginations of filmgoers as well as comic fans. "When the comics were first created, you could see that the Fantastic Four bordered on pulp adventure stereotypes," France said. "You have the smart guy, the strong guy, the show off, the girlfriend. But there's some spark in it-- the way Stan Lee made Ben and Johnny so funny, the way Jack Kirby made Ben tragic-- that really makes it unique. Everybody has a character they'd identify with, or who makes you say, 'Hey, I know someone just like that one'. Those recognizable, human characters are what made the comic a one of a kind phenomenon, and I think they'll work for the movie in just the same way."
The Fantastic Four have not received much outside media attention in recent years, but France was surprised at how many people knew and loved the characters. "What's surprised me in the past couple of years is how many guys I've run into who have nothing to do with the film business and haven't bought or read or probably even thought about a comic in over twenty years, but when I mention that I'm involved in a 'Fantastic Four' movie that's coming soon, every one of these guys start bouncing off the walls and saying that it was their favorite comic when they were a kid," France explained. "All of a sudden they get a glassy look that means they just went back to the treehouse or the backseat of the car or wherever it was that they read these books until they fell apart."
While he's not seen the finished film yet, France has been thrilled with what he has seen of the movie thus far. "It's a childhood dream to see, up on the big screen, the Torch blazing though midtown Manhattan, screaming, 'Flame on!', or to hear Ben Grimm say, 'It's clobberin' time!' as he punches Dr. Doom through a wall."
France feels that a great group of actors have been chosen to play Marvel's First Family. "I think the casting is excellent," he said. "I've been watching 'The Shield' for years, saying, boy, if we ever get the FF movie up and running again, Michael Chiklis has to Ben Grimm. He has the look, the attitude, the voice; he's even got blue eyes. Ioan Griffudd is taking on one of the most difficult roles, because Reed is so emotionally buried, but everything I've seen has him bringing a lot of warmth to the role as well as intelligence. Jessica Alba also has to deal with very different aspects of the character -- she's the maternal heart of the group, but at the same time she's very tough and smart --and from what I see she's bringing out every facet of the character. And Chris Evans is hilarious. The crowd I saw 'Sith' with was laughing at his big moments in the trailer. He's also got a tough job because of the contradictions of the character-- he has to be so cocky that you want to punch his lights out, but he still has to be likeable underneath it all."
Writing "Fantastic Four" was a highly enjoyable experience for France and he would love to pen the sequel. "Any chance to revisit these stories and these characters would be terrific...I've never had more fun writing a script than I did on 'Fantastic Four'," France said. "Of course I have ideas for more than one film. Not just for Galactus but for a number of other FF story arcs. And I've got a kid good looking enough to play Franklin Richards, so I'll make Avi a two for one deal on the sequel."
In the past, visual effects guru, Steven Johnson and his XFX studio, made a pitch to 20th Century Fox to be the special effects team for a Fantastic Four film. This was before the Tim Story film was made, and at that time Nicolas Cage was penciled in to play the role of the main villain, Doctor Victor Von Doom. Steve has now released has put these images up for sale on EBay. You can see Constantine Sekeris' designs for Dr. Doom and The Thing below, or click here to see even more concept art and a bizarre mechanical arm conceived for the ruthless ruler of Latveria.
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