Nordling wrote:If I was upset about anything, it would be the renumbering of the issues. That's just a cynical publishing ploy, and it denies everything that's happened before and DC obviously hopes that it'll sell more because of the questionable collecting value. That's more important than the death of a main character.
Comic publishers are falling in the same trap as music producers, film studios, even other forms of publishing... issue publishing is a dinosaur. They'll figure that out eventually, I suppose.
Leckomaniac wrote:But the thing is people dont NEED to read both companies to have knowledge of Batmans death and Caps death. The average Marvel reader is going to hear about this and go:
"WTF? DC are just trying to capture the same press Marvel got when they killed Cap."
They know the outcome and not the circumstances, but that is enough in this era of message boards. I have a feeling that this criticism/debate will dominate the message boards.
DennisMM wrote:Issue publishing is a dinosaur, but I don't think it will be replaced by TPs any more than television programs will be replaced by the release of 4-CD sets twice a year. People want a periodic fix. It'll have to be downloads or subscription access to sites containing the material, I think.
Theta wrote:But how long can this last? They're down to putting out "alternate" versions of all the "toys" and they're making busts of ridiculously obscure characters. I saw a bust of Terrax the other day. Terrax! Do you know who Terrax is? What he does? Without going to Wikipedia?
so sorry wrote:do ANY superheroes ever truely die?
Keepcoolbutcare wrote:so sorry wrote:do ANY superheroes ever truely die?
like gods, they die when people stop believing in them.
DennisMM wrote:What we got was better-writtten and sometimes better drawn superhero and other action-related comics with better printing.
sosorry, superheroes die when their deaths make a story work and reviving them will invalidate it. Barry Allen is still dead. His spirit has appeared briefly, but he's dead. A number of the Justice Society are dead, dead, dead. But that's not the same thing as killing a major, active character.
MasterWhedon wrote:NOW W/ REDACTED!!
Theta wrote:sosorry, superheroes die when their deaths make a story work and reviving them will invalidate it. Barry Allen is still dead. His spirit has appeared briefly, but he's dead. A number of the Justice Society are dead, dead, dead. But that's not the same thing as killing a major, active character.
Well, Barry actually got turned into the lightning bolt that made him the Flash (and also somehow sent to the future to bang Iris and create the Tornado Twins) but yeah, they DID ultimately kill him off. Still, they couldn't let Wally be, either.
Theta wrote:DennisMM wrote:What we got was better-writtten and sometimes better drawn superhero and other action-related comics with better printing.
This is a pretty debatable statement. A LOT of comics today really feel sophomoric and immature, even when they're trying to be all grown up. Among the notable offenders are Judd Winick, Brad Meltzer, Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Millar. Granted it's as much the fault of editorial as these guys, and there are days when I wonder if Quesada and DiDio have bothered to crack a book outside their field, but still, why do these guys keep getting work?
Honestly, if there was a real improvement in the writing, I don't think comics would be in the hole they're in right now. The fact that I actually prefer reading "Spirit" reprints to most modern comics these days is pretty damning.
Also, the mid-'90s was marked by DC chasing the "Gen X" demographic and that was pretty fucking miserable. Suddenly Arsenal's running around with some piercing and a big ol' man-mop, Kyle Rainer and Connor Hawke are introduced and promptly taken nowhere (although Hawke is a welcome oasis of calm in the DCU, even if editorial doesn't want to let it be known he's bi), and the only good book to come out of all of this was "Nightwing", which was mostly just a straightforward superhero book about Dick Grayson beating people up.sosorry, superheroes die when their deaths make a story work and reviving them will invalidate it. Barry Allen is still dead. His spirit has appeared briefly, but he's dead. A number of the Justice Society are dead, dead, dead. But that's not the same thing as killing a major, active character.
Well, Barry actually got turned into the lightning bolt that made him the Flash (and also somehow sent to the future to bang Iris and create the Tornado Twins) but yeah, they DID ultimately kill him off. Still, they couldn't let Wally be, either.
Theta wrote:MasterWhedon wrote:NOW W/ REDACTED!!
What the hell? Didn't you quit? Aren't you not a mod anymore? Don't you have a fancy Hollywood job now? When did I start phrasing everything in the form of a question?
DennisMM wrote:Not sure why everyone hates Winnick so much. His first couple of GA stories were pretty solid. After that I'd say he was in typical "modern" superhero territory, just a bit smarmy. I dropped the book in the 50s, I think.
DennisMM wrote:Not sure why everyone hates Winnick so much. His first couple of GA stories were pretty solid. After that I'd say he was in typical "modern" superhero territory, just a bit smarmy. I dropped the book in the 50s, I think.
instant_karma wrote:It'd be like The Zone killing off Dino in a bid to attract more readers.
The Ginger Man wrote:I didnt know Dick wore the cowl. You'll have to forgive my poor collection of Batman comic knowledge. Also, isn't Tim Drake like 16 years old?
DennisMM wrote:I agree that Dick doesn't want the job. And I won't consider Tim f for no other reason than he is still less than six feet tall. He doesn't have the physical presence to be Batman unless they start padding him.
Theta wrote:The Ginger Man wrote:I didnt know Dick wore the cowl. You'll have to forgive my poor collection of Batman comic knowledge. Also, isn't Tim Drake like 16 years old?
For a short time during the "Knightfall" malarkey. He also tried to be more Batmanish on the Outsiders, and that didn't work. He tried to be more Batmanish to get back ON the Outsiders, and failed miserably. Plus he's going to be featured in the new Titans relaunch, so that pretty much rules him out.
Theta wrote:DennisMM wrote:I agree that Dick doesn't want the job. And I won't consider Tim f for no other reason than he is still less than six feet tall. He doesn't have the physical presence to be Batman unless they start padding him.
I can see it now: some street-level pusher going "Hey, weren't you taller the last time you beat me senseless and scared me so badly I shat my pants?"
Last week's rumour about Batman kicking the Batbucket to be replaced by a sidekick is kicking up steam. As Valerie D'Orazio picks up on, the original plan was for all the main DC icons to die and be elevated to the status of New Gods as part of the Fifth World, their sidekicks filling the roles they left behind.
However, that plan was abandoned internally at DC and reduced to a Bat-storyline by Grant Morrison. So look for Bruce Wayne New God to go head-to-head with Darkseid in "Final Crisis."
Leckomaniac wrote:Things just got more interesting:
From LITG (the guy who broke the story in the first place):
Obviously, HUGE fucking spoilers.Last week's rumour about Batman kicking the Batbucket to be replaced by a sidekick is kicking up steam. As Valerie D'Orazio picks up on, the original plan was for all the main DC icons to die and be elevated to the status of New Gods as part of the Fifth World, their sidekicks filling the roles they left behind.
However, that plan was abandoned internally at DC and reduced to a Bat-storyline by Grant Morrison. So look for Bruce Wayne New God to go head-to-head with Darkseid in "Final Crisis."
The Ginger Man wrote:Theta wrote:The Ginger Man wrote:I didnt know Dick wore the cowl. You'll have to forgive my poor collection of Batman comic knowledge. Also, isn't Tim Drake like 16 years old?
For a short time during the "Knightfall" malarkey. He also tried to be more Batmanish on the Outsiders, and that didn't work. He tried to be more Batmanish to get back ON the Outsiders, and failed miserably. Plus he's going to be featured in the new Titans relaunch, so that pretty much rules him out.
Well, dammit. I hate that. Why does Nightwing have to fail at being Batman? I'd much rather see a story where Dick Grayson finally gets out from under Bruce Wayne's shadow, than a story where Knightfall is basically retreaded with Jason Todd playing the role of Azrael.
Fawst wrote:Ok, I missed something...
How/when did Jason Todd come back from being beat half to death by the Joker with a crowbar, then being blown completely to death by a bomb?
Theta wrote:Fawst wrote:Ok, I missed something...
How/when did Jason Todd come back from being beat half to death by the Joker with a crowbar, then being blown completely to death by a bomb?
Superboy punched the walls of reality.
No. I am not joking. I wish I were. But I'm not.
Leckomaniac wrote:Things just got more interesting:
From LITG (the guy who broke the story in the first place):
Obviously, HUGE fucking spoilers.Last week's rumour about Batman kicking the Batbucket to be replaced by a sidekick is kicking up steam. As Valerie D'Orazio picks up on, the original plan was for all the main DC icons to die and be elevated to the status of New Gods as part of the Fifth World, their sidekicks filling the roles they left behind.
However, that plan was abandoned internally at DC and reduced to a Bat-storyline by Grant Morrison. So look for Bruce Wayne New God to go head-to-head with Darkseid in "Final Crisis."
Leckomaniac wrote:Last week's rumour about Batman kicking the Batbucket to be replaced by a sidekick is kicking up steam. As Valerie D'Orazio picks up on, the original plan was for all the main DC icons to die and be elevated to the status of New Gods as part of the Fifth World, their sidekicks filling the roles they left behind.
However, that plan was abandoned internally at DC and reduced to a Bat-storyline by Grant Morrison. So look for Bruce Wayne New God to go head-to-head with Darkseid in "Final Crisis."
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