Dexter

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Postby TheBaxter on Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:32 pm

Dee E. Goppstober wrote:I've just finished watching the latest episode- and I'm liking it as much as I ever have.

What struck me though, is how black and white (quite literally even) Rita's and Lyla's roles are. One's the angel, one's the demon. Maybe I wouldn't have minded Lyla having a few more sympathetic qualities.


or how about see rita get badass. she already grew some balls when she threw her mom out of the house. i'd love to see her find out that lila was the one who broke into her house, and then go medieval on her ass. even the sweetest woman can turn into an ass-kicker when her children are threatened.
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Postby Maui on Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:43 pm

I missed this last night - BUT - it's on my DVR so I will be watching this tonight. Can't wait! Was this the last episode for the season?
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Postby TheBaxter on Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:50 pm

Maui wrote:I missed this last night - BUT - it's on my DVR so I will be watching this tonight. Can't wait! Was this the last episode for the season?


no, i think there are 3 more left.
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Postby Maui on Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:07 pm

TheBaxter wrote:
Maui wrote:I missed this last night - BUT - it's on my DVR so I will be watching this tonight. Can't wait! Was this the last episode for the season?


no, i think there are 3 more left.


Thankyou sir! :)
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Postby Dee E. Goppstober on Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:07 am

TheBaxter wrote:
Dee E. Goppstober wrote:I've just finished watching the latest episode- and I'm liking it as much as I ever have.

What struck me though, is how black and white (quite literally even) Rita's and Lyla's roles are. One's the angel, one's the demon. Maybe I wouldn't have minded Lyla having a few more sympathetic qualities.


or how about see rita get badass. she already grew some balls when she threw her mom out of the house. i'd love to see her find out that lila was the one who broke into her house, and then go medieval on her ass. even the sweetest woman can turn into an ass-kicker when her children are threatened.


That would rock.
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Postby Dee E. Goppstober on Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:11 am

stereosforgeeks wrote:She did seem to be more sympathetic in the beginning. Actually seeming to help Dex and such.
Good last episode. We all knew Doakes would be the one blamed, but I didnt expect him to show up at the boat at the end.



Yeah - I think it's a pity they made her into this evil home-wrecker manipulator right away. Now she's clearly the bad influence. But I suppose that is the point they're trying to make -that getting 'in touch' with his darker feelings is something Dexter doesn't need more of.

And - Doakes... a tragic figure. A real pit-bull -won't let go even if it destroys him. I like him.
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Postby instant_karma on Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:33 pm

Great episode.

It's going to be interesting to see how Dexter resolves his two confilicting imperetives from Harry, ie, self preservation vs not killing an innocent.

I wonder if he'll go digging into Doakes' black ops background as a means of justifying being able to treat him as a killer?
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:08 pm

maybe he'll base it on that guy doakes shot earlier this season. although, that was a pretty justifiable homicide.
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:45 am

TheBaxter wrote:one thing occurred to me at the beginning. it's been mentioned before in this thread how dexter is always acting in what he thinks is his own best interest, that his sociopathic nature shows up in how he doesn't really care about anyone else. but in the last episode, he left the cut up body behind to protect rita and the kids. so he was doing something that was against his own self-interest, to protect someone else. in the end, it has seriously complicated things for him. is this the first time dexter has finally put someone else's well-being ahead of his own? what does that say about his character?


His whole relationship with Rita and the kids has been something of a revelation for Dexter, right? His apology to her in the latest episode was (I thought) completely sincere and heartfelt, a huge step for him.

In terms of complicating things, I can't wait to find out how he's going to get back into his house and explain the massive leg wound to the Feds.

Dee E. Goppstober wrote:And - Doakes... a tragic figure. A real pit-bull -won't let go even if it destroys him. I like him.


Yeah... his showdown with Dex on the dock was interesting. The tone of his voice sounded like he actually finally respected Dexter, in an odd sort of way. Like, now that he finally knows why Dexter acted the way he did, it all made sense for him. And Dex seemed to be finally at peace with it as well. That is, until they scuffled of course. But up to that point, it was police business as usual for the two of them. Really interesting.

Anyways, an AWESOME episode! Can't wait for the next one!
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Postby bluebottle on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:52 am

Cha-Ka Khan wrote:Yeah... his showdown with Dex on the dock was interesting. The tone of his voice sounded like he actually finally respected Dexter, in an odd sort of way. Like, now that he finally knows why Dexter acted the way he did, it all made sense for him.


I saw it more as Doaks being relieved that his instincts weren't wrong, and a little bit of pride in himself for figuring it all out.

I don't know if Doaks has any respect for Dexter, but he definitely wouldn't be horrified or startled considering the horrors ("the horror") he experienced in black ops.

The most interesting thing about the Doaks/Dexter relationship is that the writers have done an excellent job creating a villain out of Doaks. I sit here, wanting Dexter to kill him.
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:57 am

Bluebottle wrote:The most interesting thing about the Doaks/Dexter relationship is that the writers have done an excellent job creating a villain out of Doaks. I sit here, wanting Dexter to kill him.


Good point.

Although Dexter did say he would be breaking Harry's Code if he lets Doakes go down for the crimes. He does consider Doakes an innocent. If there ever WAS a time to kill him, it would be now.

He could have killed him, hid the body, and be done with it. Lundy and the rest would consider that Doakes went on the lam, and continue their pursuit of him, figuring that he used his Black Ops skillz to disappear.
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Postby Dee E. Goppstober on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:36 pm

Dee E. Goppstober wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:She did seem to be more sympathetic in the beginning. Actually seeming to help Dex and such.
Good last episode. We all knew Doakes would be the one blamed, but I didnt expect him to show up at the boat at the end.


Yeah - I think it's a pity they made her into this evil home-wrecker manipulator right away. Now she's clearly the bad influence. But I suppose that is the point they're trying to make -that getting 'in touch' with his darker feelings is something Dexter doesn't need more of.

And - Doakes... a tragic figure. A real pit-bull -won't let go even if it destroys him. I like him.


DAMN!!! I just realised, that at the time of posting this - I was still one ep behind!!! Only now I saw ep 9 - and no wonder I wasn't bit surprised when Doakes showed up at the boat... :lol:



Cha-Ka Khan wrote:
Bluebottle wrote:The most interesting thing about the Doaks/Dexter relationship is that the writers have done an excellent job creating a villain out of Doaks. I sit here, wanting Dexter to kill him.


Good point.

Although Dexter did say he would be breaking Grande Rojo's Code if he lets Doakes go down for the crimes. He does consider Doakes an innocent. If there ever WAS a time to kill him, it would be now.

He could have killed him, hid the body, and be done with it. Lundy and the rest would consider that Doakes went on the lam, and continue their pursuit of him, figuring that he used his Black Ops skillz to disappear.


You really see him as the villain? I honestly like Doakes. And I don't want Dexter to kill him- not only because I think he's an interesting character, but also because it would be the end of the show, in a way. Harry's code is also the moral code - on a gut-level- of most of us, I think.

I certainly might lose my sympathy for Dexter if he goes off and murders an 'innocent' man.
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Postby Dee E. Goppstober on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:37 pm

Dee E. Goppstober wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:She did seem to be more sympathetic in the beginning. Actually seeming to help Dex and such.
Good last episode. We all knew Doakes would be the one blamed, but I didnt expect him to show up at the boat at the end.


Yeah - I think it's a pity they made her into this evil home-wrecker manipulator right away. Now she's clearly the bad influence. But I suppose that is the point they're trying to make -that getting 'in touch' with his darker feelings is something Dexter doesn't need more of.

And - Doakes... a tragic figure. A real pit-bull -won't let go even if it destroys him. I like him.


DAMN!!! I just realised, that at the time of posting this - I was still one ep behind!!! Only now I saw ep 9 - and no wonder I wasn't bit surprised when Doakes showed up at the boat... :lol:



Cha-Ka Khan wrote:
Bluebottle wrote:The most interesting thing about the Doaks/Dexter relationship is that the writers have done an excellent job creating a villain out of Doaks. I sit here, wanting Dexter to kill him.


Good point.

Although Dexter did say he would be breaking Grande Rojo's Code if he lets Doakes go down for the crimes. He does consider Doakes an innocent. If there ever WAS a time to kill him, it would be now.

He could have killed him, hid the body, and be done with it. Lundy and the rest would consider that Doakes went on the lam, and continue their pursuit of him, figuring that he used his Black Ops skillz to disappear.


You really see him as the villain? I honestly like Doakes. And I don't want Dexter to kill him- not only because I think he's an interesting character, but also because it would be the end of the show, in a way. Harry's code is also the moral code - on a gut-level- of most of us, I think.

I certainly might lose my sympathy for Dexter if he goes off and murders an 'innocent' man.
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Postby Maui on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:14 pm

Dee E. Goppstober wrote:
I honestly like Doakes.



Every once in a while I certainly feel sorry for him - I don't like him - but I do sympathize with his character and how he struggles with his past.

*A side note: I went to watch the last episode on my DVR last night - it crapped out on me after 10 minutes - screen went black!!!!! :evil: So, I'll have to find a repeat airing of the latest episode.
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:40 pm

Re: Doakes visiting his old Black Ops buddy in Haiti

Did the old father-in-law of the buddy remind anyone else of Fred Sanford?

"Lamont! You big dummy! I'm comin' ta join ya, Elizabeth!"
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:52 am

We all knew Dex wasnt going to kill Doakes that wouldve been too easy.

Lyla has really upped the nut quotient with the framing Angel for rape. I dont think shes even close to being done either.
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Postby TheBaxter on Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:00 pm

if you've seen the preview for next week's episode... it looks like she's going to be a MAJOR wrench in the works.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:32 pm

TheBaxter wrote:if you've seen the preview for next week's episode... it looks like she's going to be a MAJOR wrench in the works.


I dont watch those, but I figured she would be.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:44 pm

Man this season is zany-over-complicated. I am enjoying it, but for a show that pushes the bounds of credibility already, it has become almost a parody of last season. I assume that they know what they are doing, but right now, I am so loopy from all the plot threads that I might have to reconsider my committment to this show unless it really pulls off a stellar ending.

And Lila's a gentleman.
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Postby TonyWilson on Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:37 am

Another awesome episode. Doakes fucking rocked this week. I loved it when he got all fucked up and freaked out at Dexter killing the drug dealer. Not only did it reinforce that although Doakes is an asshole he's still more or less good but Erik King was much much better than normal, it was good to see the character not just being a pissed of dick.
The last flashback with Dexter and Harry and all it's implication was very well done, Harry cracking up and seeing what he'd really done was the perfect ending for the Harry/Dexter story - in the end even Harry couldn't take what Dexter really was.
I hate Lila so much, and it takes a lot for me to hate someone that, although Angel has been really stupid about the whole thing.
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:28 am

TonyWilson wrote:Another awesome episode. Doakes fucking rocked this week. I loved it when he got all fucked up and freaked out at Dexter killing the drug dealer. Not only did it reinforce that although Doakes is an asshole he's still more or less good but Erik King was much much better than normal, it was good to see the character not just being a pissed of dick.
The last flashback with Dexter and Grande Rojo and all it's implication was very well done, Grande Rojo cracking up and seeing what he'd really done was the perfect ending for the Grande Rojo/Dexter story - in the end even Grande Rojo couldn't take what Dexter really was.
I hate Lila so much, and it takes a lot for me to hate someone that, although Angel has been really stupid about the whole thing.


seeing how both doakes and harrry reacted to dexter's hobby also reinforces just how fucked up dexter really is. even though he's the lead of the show and that makes us root for him, we needed this reminder that what dexter does is pretty sick and twisted, and he really is a monster, even if he's been able to direct his monstrousness towards other monsters.

as for angel, that's what happens when you spend too much time thinking with the wrong head.
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Postby papalazeru on Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:18 pm

I think I'm going to take a leaf out of Baxters book and do a Dexter Sig.

Mine's going to be Lila flashing her tits because she really needs little excuse to flash her tats off to the camera.
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:22 pm

papalazeru wrote:Mine's going to be Lila flashing her tits because she really needs little excuse to flash her tats off to the camera.


Donna get a carried away... Keep it clean, eh paisan?
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Postby TonyWilson on Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:19 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
papalazeru wrote:
Mine's going to be Lila flashing her tits because she really needs little excuse to flash her tats off to the camera.


Donna get a carried away... Keep it clean, eh paisan?



Lila flashing her tits isn't porn. It's art.
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Postby papalazeru on Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:03 pm

TonyWilson wrote:
DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
papalazeru wrote:
Mine's going to be Lila flashing her tits because she really needs little excuse to flash her tats off to the camera.


Donna get a carried away... Keep it clean, eh paisan?



Lila flashing her tits isn't porn. It's art.


Anyone who's watched Dexter must be desensitised by tits by now.

It's like watching Showgirls and getting halfway through the film and realising the story is shit because you've only just noticed it amongst all the nubs.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:31 pm

papalazeru wrote:Anyone who's watched Dexter must be desensitised by tits by now.


Wait what?!!?
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:33 pm

The Dino, he's a become desensitized to a the dismemberment, I can a tell a you that...
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Postby TonyWilson on Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:38 pm

stereosforgeeks wrote:
papalazeru wrote:Anyone who's watched Dexter must be desensitised by tits by now.


Wait what?!!?


I know, such a thing is a physical impossibility.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:43 pm

TonyWilson wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
papalazeru wrote:Anyone who's watched Dexter must be desensitised by tits by now.


Wait what?!!?


I know, such a thing is a physical impossibility.


The Dino he makes the only valid point about being desensitized by Dexter.
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:08 pm

TonyWilson wrote:
stereosforgeeks wrote:
papalazeru wrote:Anyone who's watched Dexter must be desensitised by tits by now.


Wait what?!!?


I know, such a thing is a physical impossibility.


i've heard they can become desensitized by nipple piercings.
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Postby TonyWilson on Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:09 pm

TheBaxter wrote:
TonyWilson wrote:Another awesome episode. Doakes fucking rocked this week. I loved it when he got all fucked up and freaked out at Dexter killing the drug dealer. Not only did it reinforce that although Doakes is an asshole he's still more or less good but Erik King was much much better than normal, it was good to see the character not just being a pissed of dick.
The last flashback with Dexter and Grande Rojo and all it's implication was very well done, Grande Rojo cracking up and seeing what he'd really done was the perfect ending for the Grande Rojo/Dexter story - in the end even Grande Rojo couldn't take what Dexter really was.
I hate Lila so much, and it takes a lot for me to hate someone that, although Angel has been really stupid about the whole thing.


seeing how both doakes and harrry reacted to dexter's hobby also reinforces just how fucked up dexter really is. even though he's the lead of the show and that makes us root for him, we needed this reminder that what dexter does is pretty sick and twisted, and he really is a monster, even if he's been able to direct his monstrousness towards other monsters.

as for angel, that's what happens when you spend too much time thinking with the wrong head.


Absolutely, Baxter. When we watch Dexter kill it's very much through his eyes and out sympathies are already with him anyway, it's important to be reminded that this guy we root for is still an evil motherfucker.
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:20 pm

TonyWilson wrote:When we watch Dexter kill it's very much through his eyes and out sympathies are already with him anyway, it's important to be reminded that this guy we root for is still an evil motherfucker.


I think they also tried to change the writing style a little for this episode, to drive that point home. Dexter explaining and justifying himself to Doakes, and all. He was spewing the most bullshit lines, and Doakes wasn't having any of it. I couldn't tell if the writers were just "off" or whether they were trying to portray Dex as ultimately being batshit-crazy, because that's sort of how it was coming off.
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:32 pm

i don't think Dexter ever tries to justify it in his voice-overs because that's really him (or his voices) talking to himself, and so he doesn't need to. when he tries to justify it to another person, then we hear how lame the reasoning really sounds. and doakes is the first person in the series (outside of harrry and his brother) to find out what Dexter is, so it's the first time he's had to justify himself to anyone.
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Postby TonyWilson on Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:42 pm

Cha-Ka Khan wrote:
TonyWilson wrote:When we watch Dexter kill it's very much through his eyes and out sympathies are already with him anyway, it's important to be reminded that this guy we root for is still an evil motherfucker.


I think they also tried to change the writing style a little for this episode, to drive that point home. Dexter explaining and justifying himself to Doakes, and all. He was spewing the most bullshit lines, and Doakes wasn't having any of it. I couldn't tell if the writers were just "off" or whether they were trying to portray Dex as ultimately being batshit-crazy, because that's sort of how it was coming off.


I'm going to rewatch those scene I think. Doakes definitely started to almost see where Dexter was coming from, he did believe there was some sort of morality, however twisted. But that was pretty much sent flying out the window when Dex killed the other guy.
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Postby TheBaxter on Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:52 pm

i have to agree, overall, that doakes' character has worked out really well this season. that's saying a lot since he was probably my least favourite character last season. his dislike and suspicion of dexter last season seemed pointless and one-note, but this season it's been played to excellent effect, and resulted in a really good storyline, and given dexter a good nemesis to play off of. my favourite scenes of this season have been the dexter-doakes confrontations.
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Postby Cha-Ka Khan on Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:03 pm

TheBaxter wrote:my favourite scenes of this season have been the dexter-doakes confrontations.


And not just because we get to hear Doakes say "mother fucker" better than Sammy J.!
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Postby TheBaxter on Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:15 pm

i really can't picture this...

IMDb wrote:One day after NBC announced that it plans to rerun episodes of Law & Order: Criminal Intent that ran originally on its sibling USA cable network this season, CBS chief Les Moonves revealed that his network is planning to rerun shows from its sibling Showtime network this winter. Moonves did not mention any specific shows during his talk to a media conference in New York, but, asked by reporters later about the hit crime series Dexter, which stars Michael C. Hall, he said, "Dexter is probably the first one to go on -- with some edits. ... It fits with our crime shows." Another probability, TV columnists indicated, was the costume drama The Tudors (which was originally developed for CBS). Both shows would require heavy editing, given their free use of profanity, sex, and violence.


dexter minus lila's tits? just doesn't seem right...
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:17 pm

TheBaxter wrote:i really can't picture this...

IMDb wrote:One day after NBC announced that it plans to rerun episodes of Law & Order: Criminal Intent that ran originally on its sibling USA cable network this season, CBS chief Les Moonves revealed that his network is planning to rerun shows from its sibling Showtime network this winter. Moonves did not mention any specific shows during his talk to a media conference in New York, but, asked by reporters later about the hit crime series Dexter, which stars Michael C. Hall, he said, "Dexter is probably the first one to go on -- with some edits. ... It fits with our crime shows." Another probability, TV columnists indicated, was the costume drama The Tudors (which was originally developed for CBS). Both shows would require heavy editing, given their free use of profanity, sex, and violence.


dexter minus lila's tits? just doesn't seem right...


That'd be a sad day for fans of bossoms everywhere.
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Postby bluebottle on Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:10 am

The last two episodes have been leaked online.
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Postby tapehead on Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:31 am

Bluebottle wrote:The last two episodes have been leaked online.


Just keeps happening with these cable shows. In other news, Season three is confirmed.
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:07 am

tapehead wrote:
Bluebottle wrote:The last two episodes have been leaked online.


Just keeps happening with these cable shows. In other news, Season three is confirmed.


Great news but not much of a surprise.
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:52 am

Unna'less a they have a shot a the alternate takes anna such, I donna see how they can a make a the network-safe edits anna not a leave a the audience wondering "what's a so great about a this, eh?"
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Postby papalazeru on Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:58 am

Oh my God. Season 3 confirmed. Can't wait. I'm loving this show. It's consistently good and suprising.
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:01 am

So papa... how a do you feel about a the Dexter being onna the exclusive Showtime channel, eh? Where a you have a to pay to watch a the content anna iffa you're not a the subscriber, you're not allowed a to watch a the show, eh?
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Postby papalazeru on Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:21 am

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:So papa... how a do you feel about a the Dexter being onna the exclusive Showtime channel, eh? Where a you have a to pay to watch a the content anna iffa you're not a the subscriber, you're not allowed a to watch a the show, eh?


It won't bother me one bit.
:lol:
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Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
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Postby TheBaxter on Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:04 pm

Bluebottle wrote:The last two episodes have been leaked online.


ok all you people, i said this once in the BSG thread when those episodes got leaked, and now i'll say it here.

if you post any spoilers before these episodes air...

YOU DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby tapehead on Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:57 am

TheBaxter wrote:
Dee E. Goppstober wrote:I've just finished watching the latest episode- and I'm liking it as much as I ever have.

What struck me though, is how black and white (quite literally even) Rita's and Lyla's roles are. One's the angel, one's the demon. Maybe I wouldn't have minded Lyla having a few more sympathetic qualities.


or how about see rita get badass. she already grew some balls when she threw her mom out of the house. i'd love to see her find out that lila was the one who broke into her house, and then go medieval on her ass. even the sweetest woman can turn into an ass-kicker when her children are threatened.


I'm not sure if it's quite a matter of the writing or Jaime Murray's slightly uneven portrayal, but it seemed to me that Rita went from 'interesting and exciting' to 'annoying and stalkerish' a little too abruptly for me. I was really enjoying her appearances in episodes earlier this season. It's hard not to think that, somehow, Dexter is going to have to work out a way to deal with both she and Doakes permanently, and quick.
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Postby papalazeru on Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:37 am

The last 2 eps.....utterly Mind blowing!

This show has gone through the roof and beyond to far away galaxies.

It started off a little slow but it's been such an enjoyable ride and a fantastic build up to the end.

Mind Blowing!
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
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Postby stereosforgeeks on Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:20 am

papalazeru wrote:The last 2 eps.....utterly Mind blowing!

This show has gone through the roof and beyond to far away galaxies.

It started off a little slow but it's been such an enjoyable ride and a fantastic build up to the end.

Mind Blowing!


Hahahaha! I thought they were great as well. I will discuss more in 2 weeks.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:54 am

Right. This show has aired. Can I frickin talk about it now?

It's just too awesome to bottle up. I've watched it at least 6 times.

Such brilliance in the last two eps. Very brave of them.
Papa: The musical!

Padders: "Not very classy! Not very classy at all!"
So Sorry "I'll give you a word to describe it: classless."
Cptn Kirks 2pay: ".....utterly unclassy....."
DennisMM: "...Decidedly unclassy..."
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