critch wrote:All things being equal, I'll just go with the writing sucked and this wouldn't have happened in anything resembling reality. Then again, there's nothing resembling reality in this movie, and not one single character I didn't want to smack the crap out of by the end.
Pacino86845 wrote:Juno was the bastard love-child of Rushmore, Ghost World, and Freaks & Geeks.
DaleTremont wrote:I find the "It's not realistic" refrain to be a rather odd criticism. It's not as if every movie is stamped with a seal of lifelike authenticity. Because if they were...that would be, like, a total drag. Movies are as good as the universe the writer and director construct. Do people deride Hawks because Hildy and Walter speak with rapid fire precision? Nag Nichols for having one of his characters respond to the question of her lover's cum with "It tastes like you but sweeter"? I don't know anyone who would seriously speak with the cadence of His Girl Friday or the frankness of Closer or the wit of Juno, but that's not what makes these movies bad, it's what makes them good, imo.
I get it if Cody's brand of talk just doesn't jive with you, but I really don't think "realism" was ever meant to be the point of Juno.
tapehead wrote:So what was I missing amidst the beautifully constructed middle-class indie kids bedrooms and quaint/disgusting suburban homes? maybe a little more drama and pathos, I'm not sure. One of the central conceits of the film I just don't buy; a family like that, supportive and understanding, just wouldn't be so casual and laissez-faire about Juno giving up her kid. There was a real opportunity there for addressing the issues and drama of what constitutes family (because like it or no, genetics is such a lottery, when people think they are on a winner, they don't let it go easy), and still making it funny and entertaining.
Maybe if, like 'Knocked Up' it had had a decent subplot, taken itself just a smidge less seriously, and been a little funnier, I would have been totally sold. Perhaps if someone had gotten angrier, or we had seen more than two seconds of tears from Juno for all the trials she must have been through, for it to seem for a moment that something important had been at stake, I might have really loved it.
I want consequences, damn it!
Dee E. Goppstober wrote:As for the intention of realism - I think Juno tried it at times- but only kinda half-assed. If I may express that in the words of the venerable Mr. Tape:tapehead wrote:Maybe if, like 'Knocked Up' it had had a decent subplot, taken itself just a smidge less seriously, and been a little funnier, I would have been totally sold. Perhaps if someone had gotten angrier, or we had seen more than two seconds of tears from Juno for all the trials she must have been through, for it to seem for a moment that something important had been at stake, I might have really loved it.
I want consequences, damn it!
But Juno gets to go back to her life as it was, and her cute, hip, high-school thing with Bleeker gets to meander on to thoughtfully strummed acoustic guitars and twee vocals. I think that final scene, that ever-so-slightly too picaresque happy ending really just made it seem to me like things were back to normal now... and nobody learnt a thing.
And, on a final note: Dale, when you yourself were sixteen - I can totally imagine you spewing exactly these smart-assy comments like Juno every second sentence (but less forced, of course). Could that be realistic?
tapehead wrote:But Juno gets to go back to her life as it was, and her cute, hip, high-school thing with Bleeker gets to meander on to thoughtfully strummed acoustic guitars and twee vocals. I think that final scene, that ever-so-slightly too picaresque happy ending really just made it seem to me like things were back to normal now... and nobody learnt a thing.
DaleTremont wrote:Dee E. Goppstober wrote:As for the intention of realism - I think Juno tried it at times- but only kinda half-assed. If I may express that in the words of the venerable Mr. Tape:tapehead wrote:Maybe if, like 'Knocked Up' it had had a decent subplot, taken itself just a smidge less seriously, and been a little funnier, I would have been totally sold. Perhaps if someone had gotten angrier, or we had seen more than two seconds of tears from Juno for all the trials she must have been through, for it to seem for a moment that something important had been at stake, I might have really loved it.
I want consequences, damn it!
But Juno gets to go back to her life as it was, and her cute, hip, high-school thing with Bleeker gets to meander on to thoughtfully strummed acoustic guitars and twee vocals. I think that final scene, that ever-so-slightly too picaresque happy ending really just made it seem to me like things were back to normal now... and nobody learnt a thing.
But she does. I thought Juno grew up a lot from Autumn to Summer. It's kind of all summed up in the scene with her father when she asks him if he thinks two people can stay together forever. She'd just embarked on that dangerous flirtation with Mark and seen his marriage to Vanessa disintegrate right before her eyes- I mean, that's pretty heavy shit for a pregnant 16 year old to deal with. The thing is, beyond her prickly (some- not me- might say "abrasive") exterior, there beats the heart of a raging sentimentalist. The girl wants to find that special someone. Not earth-shattering, I know, but I thought it was actually pretty honest.
bamf wrote:I saw it completely differently. I found the last scene to be a call back to their first mistake. Juno, and her parents make comments regarding sex happening when teens are bored. Juno misses the band her and Bleeker were in, and generaly being non-productive lead them to, well, producing.
I would take Tape's point if they ended with panties dropping in front of a couch this time, but of course that didn't happen. You know the expression in regards to sex "we made beautiful music together"? Thats the note Juno ended on for me, a lesson was learned, and the camera pulls back as they make beautiful music with each other.
@Dale: Agreed
DaleTremont wrote:
Alas, you give me far too much credit, DeeWhen I was 16 I was sputtering my way through the simplest phrases in France.
As far as the dialogue goes I've decided it's one of those instances where it really and truly comes down to taste. It floats your boat or it don't. Watching Juno, well, let's just say I was experiencing some mad buoyancy!
tapehead wrote:I see your point Dale, and it's perhaps a little cliche, but I would have been happier to see Juno catch a bus the fuck out of suburbia, or for she and Bleeker to take their cute rock duo on tour, or, you know, just about anything rather than nestle happily in the front yard playing a 'sorta-kinda-love song' to each other while a flock of highschool runners floated happily by. The ending as it transpired was all just a little comfortable and contented for my taste. Would a chick as whipsmart and clever as Juno want to be in love and settle at 16, even considering her pre-natal adventures? I hope not.
Dee E. Goppstober wrote:Ah, ces mecs français - ils font vous bafouiller, non?![]()
DaleTremont wrote:Honest to blog, you kids! The layers of sarcasm run so deep you don't know your asses from your elbows!
MasterWhedon wrote:SomethingAwful has "leaked" pages from Diablo Cody's next script, "Quotey."
Peven wrote:i didn't see any WES Anderson rip-off going on either, and i am a HUGE Wes Anderson fan.
tapehead wrote:Peven wrote:i didn't see any WES Anderson rip-off going on either, and i am a HUGE Wes Anderson fan.
How 'bout the moment we see Bleaker stepping out in his running ensemble to the strains of The Kinks "A Well Respected Man'? the composition and song choice didn't ring any bells for you? seemed a little like a very self-conscious 'quote' to me.
Ah well, Diablo Cody picked up an Oscar for her screenplay, after all.
Pacino86845 wrote:It's not just the use of pop songs, it's more the distinct choice of songs combined with the way shots are framed, also the diffuse look to a given frame with bright, pop-colored clothes on the filmed subject to create contrast, as well as the generally dry delivery from the actors.... really, all of it just reeks of Anderson-imitation. Not to say that I didn't enjoy Juno, I thought it was a worthy effort, but I'm not really interested in seeing what Cody and little Reitman have lined up for the future.
John-Locke wrote:I quite liked the film when I saw it but for some reason the film left a slightly bad taste in my mouth, the music and the dialogue in particular strike me as being pretentious which is something I've never found with Anderson.
papalazeru wrote:John-Locke wrote:I quite liked the film when I saw it but for some reason the film left a slightly bad taste in my mouth, the music and the dialogue in particular strike me as being pretentious which is something I've never found with Anderson.
Is that because Anderson is more fantastical?
I thought the film kept it in the fantasy realm. It did feel very bright with, as Pacino mentioned, with all the colours.
I didn't find the dialogue as pretentious as a Guy Ritchie film.
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