Juno

[DaleTremont]

I find the "It's not realistic" refrain to be a rather odd criticism. It's not as if every movie is stamped with a seal of lifelike authenticity. Because if they were...that would be, like, a total drag. Movies are as good as the universe the writer and director construct. Do people deride Hawks because Hildy and Walter speak with rapid fire precision? Nag Nichols for having one of his characters respond to the question of her lover's cum with "It tastes like you but sweeter"? I don't know anyone who would seriously speak with the cadence of His Girl Friday or the frankness of Closer or the wit of Juno, but that's not what makes these movies bad, it's what makes them good, imo.

I get it if Cody's brand of talk just doesn't jive with you, but I really don't think "realism" was ever meant to be the point of Juno.

[bamf]

All things being equal, I'll just go with the writing sucked and this wouldn't have happened in anything resembling reality. Then again, there's nothing resembling reality in this movie, and not one single character I didn't want to smack the crap out of by the end.

A perfectly cromulent point.


















Uhhh...Welcome to the zone critch!

[tapehead]

Precocious much? It would be frickin sweet if I could agree with most people in this thread and say I loved 'Juno' - but the glib shenanigans of the script too often fail to actually resonate. So while I think if I was a middle class hipster chick in my late teens or twenties I might have loved this, I'm not, and I didn't. Which isn't to say I didn't like it.
So I just liked it.

Juno was the bastard love-child of Rushmore, Ghost World, and Freaks & Geeks.

I know, Right? I thought of 'Welcome to the Dollhouse' a few times too, a much quieter and affecting movie, about adolescent estrangement, rather than this; a movie about being hip to pop culture whilst going through one of the most fundamentally human experiences.
Sure, there are moments where we see the frailty and humanness of the characters, and telling a tale laced with memes like catchphrases and film and tv references is valid and fun to watch (Judderman has a point though - it seems like the dialogue is trying too hard, and when it goes wrong - 'Thundercats... are go?!' its sticks in the craw). You also have to wonder how long, like Kevin Smith a writing approach like this can last without falling into self-parody, or like QT having to move through new genres for a fresh perspectives or reinvention.

Arrested Development alumni Jason Bateman and Michael Cera acquit themselves well in roles that just seemed too small to me. In fact my interest was piqued every time Bateman's Mark was on screen, and I cant help but think a movie centred on Juno and Mark might have been a difficult but more rewarding story to be told... that might just be me identifying with his character though.

As for Cera, while he gets some of the best lines and moments in the piece (the moment in his room where you see Juno's 'cherried' panties bunched up in his hand was one that did succeed in making me feel for both he and his special lady), I think after his performance in 'Superbad' might guarantee this film will be the last time he's given so little to do. Bleeker's golden shorts, smooth cheeks and quiet, awkward thoughtfulness sets a new standard for androgynous white boy cool though. Anyone else notice how many characters in this movie were rocking tube socks? They're like gender non-specific lingerie for a whole generation of disaffected youth, I swear.

So what was I missing amidst the beautifully constructed middle-class indie kids bedrooms and quaint/disgusting suburban homes? maybe a little more drama and pathos, I'm not sure. One of the central conceits of the film I just don't buy; a family like that, supportive and understanding, just wouldn't be so casual and laissez-faire about Juno giving up her kid. There was a real opportunity there for addressing the issues and drama of what constitutes family (because like it or no, genetics is such a lottery, when people think they are on a winner, they don't let it go easy), and still making it funny and entertaining.

Maybe if, like 'Knocked Up' it had had a decent subplot, taken itself just a smidge less seriously, and been a little funnier, I would have been totally sold. Perhaps if someone had gotten angrier, or we had seen more than two seconds of tears from Juno for all the trials she must have been through, for it to seem for a moment that something important had been at stake, I might have really loved it.
I want consequences, damn it!

But Juno gets to go back to her life as it was, and her cute, hip, high-school thing with Bleeker gets to meander on to thoughtfully strummed acoustic guitars and twee vocals. I think that final scene, that ever-so-slightly too picaresque happy ending really just made it seem to me like things were back to normal now... and nobody learnt a thing.

[junesquad]

I was going to see this today, but my wife wanted to watch P.S. I Love You, so we went today and I watched P.S. again. If you have see P.S., you'll understand why I didn't really want to see this movie again. It's a decent movie, but it's not material you want to keep visiting. However, I wanted her to see it, so I didn't mind. I just want to see Juno.

[Dee E. Goppstober]

I find the "It's not realistic" refrain to be a rather odd criticism. It's not as if every movie is stamped with a seal of lifelike authenticity. Because if they were...that would be, like, a total drag. Movies are as good as the universe the writer and director construct. Do people deride Hawks because Hildy and Walter speak with rapid fire precision? Nag Nichols for having one of his characters respond to the question of her lover's cum with "It tastes like you but sweeter"? I don't know anyone who would seriously speak with the cadence of His Girl Friday or the frankness of Closer or the wit of Juno, but that's not what makes these movies bad, it's what makes them good, imo.

I get it if Cody's brand of talk just doesn't jive with you, but I really don't think "realism" was ever meant to be the point of Juno.

I agree - it's not all about realism. Juno should have been the teenage equivalent of a cool James Bond or any other fantastically cool action hero. But, then - I want the movie to at least convince me in the illusionof realism. And in Juno the dialogue for me simply didn't. It felt staged and forced most of the time, only sometimes being really funny to me.

As for the intention of realism - I think Juno tried it at times- but only kinda half-assed. If I may express that in the words of the venerable Mr. Tape:

So what was I missing amidst the beautifully constructed middle-class indie kids bedrooms and quaint/disgusting suburban homes? maybe a little more drama and pathos, I'm not sure. One of the central conceits of the film I just don't buy; a family like that, supportive and understanding, just wouldn't be so casual and laissez-faire about Juno giving up her kid. There was a real opportunity there for addressing the issues and drama of what constitutes family (because like it or no, genetics is such a lottery, when people think they are on a winner, they don't let it go easy), and still making it funny and entertaining.

Maybe if, like 'Knocked Up' it had had a decent subplot, taken itself just a smidge less seriously, and been a little funnier, I would have been totally sold. Perhaps if someone had gotten angrier, or we had seen more than two seconds of tears from Juno for all the trials she must have been through, for it to seem for a moment that something important had been at stake, I might have really loved it.
I want consequences, damn it!

That about sums it up for me as well. Oh - and loved the observation about the tube-socks, too.


And, on a final note: Dale, when you yourself were sixteen - I can totally imagine you spewing exactly these smart-assy comments like Juno every second sentence (but less forced, of course ). So it is realistic!

[DaleTremont]

As for the intention of realism - I think Juno tried it at times- but only kinda half-assed. If I may express that in the words of the venerable Mr. Tape:

Maybe if, like 'Knocked Up' it had had a decent subplot, taken itself just a smidge less seriously, and been a little funnier, I would have been totally sold. Perhaps if someone had gotten angrier, or we had seen more than two seconds of tears from Juno for all the trials she must have been through, for it to seem for a moment that something important had been at stake, I might have really loved it.
I want consequences, damn it!

But Juno gets to go back to her life as it was, and her cute, hip, high-school thing with Bleeker gets to meander on to thoughtfully strummed acoustic guitars and twee vocals. I think that final scene, that ever-so-slightly too picaresque happy ending really just made it seem to me like things were back to normal now... and nobody learnt a thing.

But she does. I thought Juno grew up a lot from Autumn to Summer. It's kind of all summed up in the scene with her father when she asks him if he thinks two people can stay together forever. She'd just embarked on that dangerous flirtation with Mark and seen his marriage to Vanessa disintegrate right before her eyes- I mean, that's pretty heavy shit for a pregnant 16 year old to deal with. The thing is, beyond her prickly (some- not me- might say "abrasive") exterior, there beats the heart of a raging sentimentalist. The girl wants to find that special someone. Not earth-shattering, I know, but I thought it was actually pretty honest.

And, on a final note: Dale, when you yourself were sixteen - I can totally imagine you spewing exactly these smart-assy comments like Juno every second sentence (but less forced, of course ). Could that be realistic?

Alas, you give me far too much credit, Dee When I was 16 I was sputtering my way through the simplest phrases in France.

As far as the dialogue goes I've decided it's one of those instances where it really and truly comes down to taste. It floats your boat or it don't. Watching Juno, well, let's just say I was experiencing some mad buoyancy!

[bamf]

But Juno gets to go back to her life as it was, and her cute, hip, high-school thing with Bleeker gets to meander on to thoughtfully strummed acoustic guitars and twee vocals. I think that final scene, that ever-so-slightly too picaresque happy ending really just made it seem to me like things were back to normal now... and nobody learnt a thing.

I saw it completely differently. I found the last scene to be a call back to their first mistake. Juno, and her parents make comments regarding sex happening when teens are bored. Juno misses the band her and Bleeker were in, and generaly being non-productive lead them to, well, producing.

I would take Tape's point if they ended with panties dropping in front of a couch this time, but of course that didn't happen. You know the expression in regards to sex "we made beautiful music together"? Thats the note Juno ended on for me, a lesson was learned, and the camera pulls back as they make beautiful music with each other.

@Dale: Agreed

[tapehead]

As for the intention of realism - I think Juno tried it at times- but only kinda half-assed. If I may express that in the words of the venerable Mr. Tape:

Maybe if, like 'Knocked Up' it had had a decent subplot, taken itself just a smidge less seriously, and been a little funnier, I would have been totally sold. Perhaps if someone had gotten angrier, or we had seen more than two seconds of tears from Juno for all the trials she must have been through, for it to seem for a moment that something important had been at stake, I might have really loved it.
I want consequences, damn it!

But Juno gets to go back to her life as it was, and her cute, hip, high-school thing with Bleeker gets to meander on to thoughtfully strummed acoustic guitars and twee vocals. I think that final scene, that ever-so-slightly too picaresque happy ending really just made it seem to me like things were back to normal now... and nobody learnt a thing.

But she does. I thought Juno grew up a lot from Autumn to Summer. It's kind of all summed up in the scene with her father when she asks him if he thinks two people can stay together forever. She'd just embarked on that dangerous flirtation with Mark and seen his marriage to Vanessa disintegrate right before her eyes- I mean, that's pretty heavy shit for a pregnant 16 year old to deal with. The thing is, beyond her prickly (some- not me- might say "abrasive") exterior, there beats the heart of a raging sentimentalist. The girl wants to find that special someone. Not earth-shattering, I know, but I thought it was actually pretty honest.

I see your point Dale, and it's perhaps a little cliche, but I would have been happier to see Juno catch a bus the fuck out of suburbia, or for she and Bleeker to take their cute rock duo on tour, or, you know, just about anything rather than nestle happily in the front yard playing a 'sorta-kinda-love song' to each other while a flock of highschool runners floated happily by. The ending as it transpired was all just a little comfortable and contented for my taste. Would a chick as whipsmart and clever as Juno want to be in love and settle at 16, even considering her pre-natal adventures? I hope not.

I saw it completely differently. I found the last scene to be a call back to their first mistake. Juno, and her parents make comments regarding sex happening when teens are bored. Juno misses the band her and Bleeker were in, and generaly being non-productive lead them to, well, producing.

I would take Tape's point if they ended with panties dropping in front of a couch this time, but of course that didn't happen. You know the expression in regards to sex "we made beautiful music together"? Thats the note Juno ended on for me, a lesson was learned, and the camera pulls back as they make beautiful music with each other.

@Dale: Agreed

As bamf says, I guess at least the potential is there for some good things to have come out of the proceedings... although the setting and agreeable tone of the end still suggested otherwise to me when I watched it.

I really enjoyed the style and performance of dialogue by the way, and the question of 'realism' never really came into it. It was more the story and pacing elements that left me a little 'meh'.

[Dee E. Goppstober]

Alas, you give me far too much credit, Dee When I was 16 I was sputtering my way through the simplest phrases in France.

As far as the dialogue goes I've decided it's one of those instances where it really and truly comes down to taste. It floats your boat or it don't. Watching Juno, well, let's just say I was experiencing some mad buoyancy!

Ah, ces mecs français - ils font vous bafouiller, non?

Me- more a heavy-in-the-water steamboat with some occasional turbulence. And a few pleasant waves here and there. Not too bad, I 'spose.

[DaleTremont]

I see your point Dale, and it's perhaps a little cliche, but I would have been happier to see Juno catch a bus the fuck out of suburbia, or for she and Bleeker to take their cute rock duo on tour, or, you know, just about anything rather than nestle happily in the front yard playing a 'sorta-kinda-love song' to each other while a flock of highschool runners floated happily by. The ending as it transpired was all just a little comfortable and contented for my taste. Would a chick as whipsmart and clever as Juno want to be in love and settle at 16, even considering her pre-natal adventures? I hope not.

If she catches a bus out of suburbia it will be Ghost World all over again! People tore that ending UP! (although, actually, I rather liked it.) I get the criticism of the ending. When they first start playing the song I had a little second of "Wud?" but then I settled into it, unclinched the buttocks (a natural reaction to sugary-sweetness in movies), and just enjoyed it. I liked it even more the second time I saw it, to be honest. And the runners thing? Heh. I took that as a little beat of dirty humor, you know the kind that punctuate dramatic scenes to end on a lighter note? I mean, every time I saw those guys my mind went immediately to "pork spears."

My take on Juno and Bleeker is that they're young and in love, and they both genuinely believe it will last forever. Will it actually? Who knows. Maybe it will, maybe it'll fade away with time. To me that doesn't make the ending any less satisfying. But, you know...big closet sentimentalist. Right here.

Ah, ces mecs français - ils font vous bafouiller, non?

Ces mecs francais me font rougir a chaque fois...bien qu'ils soient des connards!

Je suis une chipie epouvantable! (Et toi aussi, j'imagine )

[bluebottle]

I finally saw this.

I thought the acting was fantastic, but the script and direction were pretty shallow.

I didn't think it was Wes Anderson-esque, i thought it was blatantly derivative of Anderson.

The "hamburger phone" "honest to blog" dialogue felt like it was trying too hard - just like the character of Juno herself.

Actually, i think it's ironic that the main character is clearly "acting", you know, she's all wit and charm, but she never really reveals who she is underneath under all that - sure she has a breakdown when some things go wrong, but (for me) that never broke down the "i'm so different and hip" mask she wore through the entire film...

Meanwhile the film itself never dropped it's "i'm so different and hip" mask.

That being said, the performances are stellar. It is worth seeing just for that.

But otherwise, I think it's pretty overrated, and most of the hype is reactionary to the "omg, she's got a hamburger phone and wears a slinky t-shirt and they talk about dario argento!!!!1111" i'm sure there would have been a point where it crossed most people's line... Like if she had been wearing those socks with individual toes.

anyway.

[tapehead]

Juno-ism. This seemed kind of inevitable.

[Ribbons]

Juno-ism. This seemed kind of inevitable.

Hehe:

Example -
Person: "I just got my second face lift in three years."
Hipster wannabe: "Honest to blog?"
Person: "Yeah.... and don't say that, it's fucking annoying."

[DaleTremont]

Honest to blog, you kids! The layers of sarcasm run so deep you don't know your asses from your elbows!

I hate you both.

[junesquad]

I finally got to see Juno yesterday night. I got tired of waiting for it to get demoted to the $2.50 theater. I've watched as movies have came and left and Juno still remains to be about the middle of the movies list and just as many showings a day.

I have to admit I was excited as we drove across town, but as I sit down in my seat and shortly after a young girl is talking on her hamburger phone, I thought, "Damn... another disappointment." However, I kept an open mind and let the director take me on the amazing ride through Juno's life.

Ellen Page caught me by surprise. Throughout the movie, I had that nagging feeling that I had seen her somewhere before, but I couldn't put my finger on it until IMDB.com revealed she was in my X-Men 3 movie. Who knew? Page gave a stellar performance of a girl hiding behind a mask and made everything about that role believable. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing her future performances.

Michael Cera, another I've seen him somewhere (Frequency w/ Dennis Quaid), was awesome. I couldn't imagine them picking a better Bleeker. The same could be said for the parents (J.K. Simmons and Allison Janney).

However, while the acting and humor were creatively styled to keep me from getting lost in the depth of the movie's subject matter, I have to admit my favorite part of the movie, predictably, was Jennifer Garner. Garner has an amazing ability to become that girl that everyone loves to love and when she turns on those tears, damn, she gets my heart every time.

My wife and I will definitely be adding this title to our library. Juno is the cheese to our macaroni.

[MasterWhedon]

SomethingAwful has "leaked" pages from Diablo Cody's next script, "Quotey."

[King Of Nowhere]

SomethingAwful has "leaked" pages from Diablo Cody's next script, "Quotey."

I know the strike is over, but ffs, not even a week before scripts are handed in & then leaked?

[Nordling]

It's a spoof.

[King Of Nowhere]

It's a spoof.

Yeah, noticed after i read the "leaked" page.

[instant_karma]

Just saw this. Pretty good, but like a couple of other people have said, the soundtrack is a bit annoying. Individually, the songs are pretty good, but thrown together as they are here, it's just a bit too much. Possibly the most twee soundtrack ever.

[Zarles]

It's a spoof.

And a damn fine one, at that.

[DDMAN26]

I saw it last night for myself and I really liked it.

[burnhollywood]

Quickie Review:

The critics actually talked me into seeing a movie about a pregnant teen, which I (shockingly enough) found pretty decent, with some small quibbles here and there...

(Like: why did the Jason Bateman character start out so likable and interesting, and then wind up such a selfish dick? Script kinda shortchanged him, I thought. Also, if Juno's guy had not been played by Michael Cera, he would have qualified as one of the most boring boyfriends ever. And--of course--for such a clever kid, Juno sure was dumb about sex...

(Oh, and the soundtrack sucked...seemed like they were playing an album side by that irritating coffeeshop folk outfit for the last twenty minutes of the movie)

3 outta 5 stars

[Peven]

just got back from seeing this with my 15 year old daughter. we both really enjoyed it. deserving of a Best Picture nom imo, too. Page and Garner give the two best performances, imo. Cera does a pretty convincing awkward teenage boy but wasn't given much to do, i would have liked to see a little more of him. i don't think Bateman's character got short shrifted at all and was consistent throughout. he seemed likeable at first because it was easy for him to be, dealing with the reality of the baby was still far off, he hadn't had to start really confronting it. i found the film to be very subtle in places where other directors/writers would have beaten you over the head with a stick, which i appreciate too. i didn't see any WES Anderson rip-off going on either, and i am a HUGE Wes Anderson fan. (have this tuesday circled on my calender, when "Darjeeling Limited" is out on DVD)

in the end both my daughter and i agreed it was definitely one of the best of '07

[tapehead]

i didn't see any WES Anderson rip-off going on either, and i am a HUGE Wes Anderson fan.

How 'bout the moment we see Bleaker stepping out in his running ensemble to the strains of The Kinks "A Well Respected Man'? the composition and song choice didn't ring any bells for you? seemed a little like a very self-conscious 'quote' to me.

Ah well, Diablo Cody picked up an Oscar for her screenplay, after all.

[tangerine]

Yet again tape does a straight to the point pwnt.

[RogueScribner]

I can't believe Cody won. Ah, well.

[Peven]

i didn't see any WES Anderson rip-off going on either, and i am a HUGE Wes Anderson fan.

How 'bout the moment we see Bleaker stepping out in his running ensemble to the strains of The Kinks "A Well Respected Man'? the composition and song choice didn't ring any bells for you? seemed a little like a very self-conscious 'quote' to me.

Ah well, Diablo Cody picked up an Oscar for her screenplay, after all.

geez, i don't know, maybe a little, but are directors now forbidden to use progressive/punk songs combined with awkward characters or be accused of riffing on Anderson? i think you have to try to make an effort to make any real direct connection between the two and by doing it you are shortchanging "Juno".


or do we have to get into the whole, "there are no true original ideas" discussion...............

[Pacino86845]

It's not just the use of pop songs, it's more the distinct choice of songs combined with the way shots are framed, also the diffuse look to a given frame with bright, pop-colored clothes on the filmed subject to create contrast, as well as the generally dry delivery from the actors.... really, all of it just reeks of Anderson-imitation. Not to say that I didn't enjoy Juno, I thought it was a worthy effort, but I'm not really interested in seeing what Cody and little Reitman have lined up for the future.

[Peven]

It's not just the use of pop songs, it's more the distinct choice of songs combined with the way shots are framed, also the diffuse look to a given frame with bright, pop-colored clothes on the filmed subject to create contrast, as well as the generally dry delivery from the actors.... really, all of it just reeks of Anderson-imitation. Not to say that I didn't enjoy Juno, I thought it was a worthy effort, but I'm not really interested in seeing what Cody and little Reitman have lined up for the future.

if that is how it struck you then i can't argue with that, Pacino. all i can say is that i didn't pick up on it and not once while watching it did i think "wow, this is so Anderson-esque". i could do a point by point defense, but that wouldn't change your perception, which is the only important reality in the end. glad you still enjoyed it though

[John-Locke]

This is the first time I've read others noticing the Anderson Comparison, it certainly struck me whilst watching the film.

It's like someone trying to mimic Anderson only trying to set the film in a more realistic world (cos Andersons films are most definitely not set in the real world) and obviously not being so anal about symmetry.

I quite liked the film when I saw it but for some reason the film left a slightly bad taste in my mouth, the music and the dialogue in particular strike me as being pretentious which is something I've never found with Anderson.

[papalazeru]

I quite liked the film when I saw it but for some reason the film left a slightly bad taste in my mouth, the music and the dialogue in particular strike me as being pretentious which is something I've never found with Anderson.

Is that because Anderson is more fantastical?

I thought the film kept it in the fantasy realm. It did feel very bright with, as Pacino mentioned, with all the colours.

I didn't find the dialogue as pretentious as a Guy Ritchie film.

[Zarles]

I know I bash Juno a lot, but I'm happy Diablo Cody won, if only for her acceptance speech. Not necessarily what she said, but just the tone and emotion of it. It was lovely, heartfelt, and actually quite inspiring to me. It brought a level of 'you can do it, too' to the Oscars, and in a year where not a lot of indies made much noise, I appreciated that. She seemed totally disarmed by her win, and it was nice to see her up there as a real person and not just as the snarky hipster ('OMG she used to be a stripper!!!1!') type that we've been led to believe she is. I've been following her blogs for a while now, and I have no reason to believe that she isn't talented. Most of her blog entries nowadays are about keeping her MySpace friends updated about how weird and wonderful being an Oscar nominee is, but it wasn't always that way. She really is quite a talented writer, and I hope that she ducks out of the limelight for a while to recharge her batteries before jumping back into it with another film.

However, I really hope she takes the criticisms she's received for Juno. I have no doubt that she'll be experiencing a backlash after her Oscar win, and for her to follow it up with another movie that feels exactly the same would be a drastic misstep. I'm still in her corner solely because I do believe she just kinda fell into where she is now, but if she comes back out with another movie that is remotely as irritating and forced as I found Juno to be, I may have to reconsider. We'll see. I mean, come on - 'honest to blog' just isn't funny. It can't be funny, and it will never be funny. It reminds me of the scenes in 'Mean Girls' where the blonde one keeps trying to get the word 'fetch' to stick. Sorry, but it just doesn't. And won't. Ever.

That said, never mind what all the gossip rags are saying - I thought her dress was smokin' hot. I like 'em a little trashy.

[bluebottle]

I quite liked the film when I saw it but for some reason the film left a slightly bad taste in my mouth, the music and the dialogue in particular strike me as being pretentious which is something I've never found with Anderson.

Is that because Anderson is more fantastical?

I thought the film kept it in the fantasy realm. It did feel very bright with, as Pacino mentioned, with all the colours.

I didn't find the dialogue as pretentious as a Guy Ritchie film.

it's not the script, it's the directing... the LOOK of the film is definitely Anderson-esque. A lot of head on shots, slo-mo, bright colours... The acting tone is similar as well.

Personally, I think Reitman's struggling to find his own style. He's definitely shooting "cool" as opposed to "from the heart".