The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

Postby monorail77 on Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:45 pm

Hey, I just watched The Searchers. Ethan Edwards is such an asshole, but he's a cool, honourable asshole, if that makes any sense. Anakin is none of these things. You're right Bob, a slick, Orson Welles type would have been perfect as Anakin. Evil, but so charming you don't realize the depth of his megalomania. Instead we get Anakin the idiot who doesn't seem to notice he's being played. Better he should have been scheming all along and then get his come-uppance by being burnt alive and transforming into Vader. Then, as Vader, he'd be the bitter, older Welles who once had the keys to the kingdom but lost it all. Where was this idea when they were making Ep 1?
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Postby Fievel on Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:54 pm

My wife and I had this discussion the other day:

How does one introduce Star Wars to upcoming/future children?

-Episodes 4,5,6 then 1,2,3?

or

-Episodes 1,2,34,5,6?

I'm going to say release order 4,5,6,1,2,3. I've got a son coming in May and this is one of those important burning questions. I'd rather start him with Episode 4 as I saw it. The whole "Vader is Luke's father" reveal is infinitely more shocking than "Sidious = Palpatine" could possibly be. Not to mention that I'd hate for my son to watch the first three and then during the second three complain about the lightsaber fights being weak, the special effects looking odd, Luke & Leia kissing way too much for brother & sister, etc.

Is anyone out there going to go 1,2,3,4,5,6 when it's time to introduce your children to Star Wars? And if so, why?
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Postby buster00 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:57 pm

If it were me, I would also go with 4-5-6-1-2-3.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:24 pm

Seconded... better than that show your kid episodes 4-6, then wait ten years before allowing him to watch 1-3, so he could have his childhood raped like the rest of us! :D
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Postby buster00 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:34 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:Seconded... better than that show your kid episodes 4-6, then wait ten years before allowing him to watch 1-3, so he could have his childhood raped like the rest of us! :D


that would be awesome
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:29 pm

reposting from locked thread. Zafiroblue, you might get some good answers to your question by reading this thread...

zafiroblue05 wrote:So I've never been a huge Star Wars fan, but I watched them a few years back and liked them. But I'd be hazy on a lot of the details, to be honest, and I've never seen the prequels. Is it a total waste of time to see them? Are they really that terrible? I've heard Episode 3 is okay - is it? Do I need to watch the first two before watching number 3?
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Postby Worst Part's Almost Over on Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:31 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:reposting from locked thread. Zafiroblue, you might get some good answers to your question by reading this thread...

zafiroblue05 wrote:So I've never been a huge Star Wars fan, but I watched them a few years back and liked them. But I'd be hazy on a lot of the details, to be honest, and I've never seen the prequels. Is it a total waste of time to see them? Are they really that terrible? I've heard Episode 3 is okay - is it? Do I need to watch the first two before watching number 3?


I say watch them. If nothing else, it will give you the right to an opinion. After all, you can't really judge something you've not seen yourself. And hell, you might enjoy a moment or two.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:40 pm

Worst Part's Almost Over wrote:
Lord Voldemoo wrote:reposting from locked thread. Zafiroblue, you might get some good answers to your question by reading this thread...

zafiroblue05 wrote:So I've never been a huge Star Wars fan, but I watched them a few years back and liked them. But I'd be hazy on a lot of the details, to be honest, and I've never seen the prequels. Is it a total waste of time to see them? Are they really that terrible? I've heard Episode 3 is okay - is it? Do I need to watch the first two before watching number 3?


I say watch them. If nothing else, it will give you the right to an opinion. After all, you can't really judge something you've not seen yourself. And hell, you might enjoy a moment or two.


Agreed.

There are great moments througout...and some truly cringe-worthy ones. If you go in not expecting it to be the be-all, end-all of "awesome" (as I always did) then you might actually like some or all of them.

ROTS isn't bad at all, actually. Some bad moments but I still say it's more good than bad.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo is hard to deal with though.

The best lightsaber fight in all 6 movies is in Ep 1. TPM is worth watching just for the Jinn, Kenobi, Maul showdown.
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Postby Nordling on Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:43 pm

Stylistically, the best lightsaber fight's in Episode I. But emotionally and storywise, the best fight's in EMPIRE.
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Postby Lord Voldemoo on Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:36 pm

Nordling wrote:Stylistically, the best lightsaber fight's in Episode I. But emotionally and storywise, the best fight's in EMPIRE.


oh yes, I can't disagree with that.

I definitely meant from a stylistic perspective.

and double-bladed lightsabers kick ass.
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Postby Worst Part's Almost Over on Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:38 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
Nordling wrote:Stylistically, the best lightsaber fight's in Episode I. But emotionally and storywise, the best fight's in EMPIRE.


oh yes, I can't disagree with that.

I definitely meant from a stylistic perspective.

and double-bladed lightsabers kick ass.


Also agreed. Maul vs Jinn & Kenobi still gets the adrenalin going.
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Postby Fievel on Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:05 pm

The prequel lightsaber action is amazing. I'd say the best moments of the prequels involve the lightsaber duels or the Battle of Geonosis. But sadly, for me, it makes the Original Trilogy lightsaber work seem EXTREMELY weak in comparison.
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Postby Fried Gold on Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:07 pm

Episodes 1-3 each have their highlights, as well as bits which are only worth fast-forwarding through.

Watching them back now, and given general reputation of The Phantom Menace, I find Attack of the Clones to be the least appealing and most difficult to get through.

Revenge of the Sith is certainly quite a worthwhile companion to the original trilogy.
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Postby darkjedijaina on Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:10 am

I can't really watch TPM much. I just don't get into it, except of course for the lightsaber battle between Maul, Obi-Wan, and Jinn. My son, however, absolutely loves TPM. AOTC is okay. But, ROTS is by far the best prequel.

My beef with the prequels is that they lack the quotability of the OT. There just don't seem to be as many great one-liners, and I don't find them to be as rewatchable as the OT.

Maybe that's because I've grown up a bit? I don't think I've seen many movies that are as rewatchable as my favorites from youth - the OT, the Indiana Jones trilogy, JAWS, Evil Dead.... apparently I have a thing for trilogies....
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Postby Fawst on Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:19 am

darkjedijaina wrote:apparently I have a thing for threesomes....


Hey now...

:D

Kidding.

Yah, no, it's not you. It's Lucas. Trust me. It's Lucas. If those films had been anything CLOSE to the OT, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd be talking about how lucky our children are that they have 6 amazing films instead of the three we were "stuck" with.
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Postby papalazeru on Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:28 am

The end of Ep 3 bugs the hell out of me.

It's not a bad film but the bit where the soldiers go,

"By the way, wipe those droids memories"

Talk about tacking it on.
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Postby darkjedijaina on Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:39 am

Fawst wrote:
darkjedijaina wrote:apparently I have a thing for threesomes....


Hey now...


well, maybe that, too....

:wink:
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Postby King Of Nowhere on Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:14 am

I know conversation has moved on, but fuck it, im gonna air my beef with the prequels anyway.

It's not that Lucas tried to tie up too many "loose ends".
It's not about the acting.
It's...

Do you remember when you first seen Halloween? How fucking bad ass/intimidating/threatening/scary Myers/The Shape was?
Now remember when they released Halloween: The Curse of Michael Myersl & came out with a bunch of bullshit on Myers having that druid curse?

It got so fucking preposterous that it completely ruined the character, made him a cartoon character, you couldn't go back & watch the original without thinking "God, he's a joke now". Same thing with the Elm Street movies, in fact, it's pretty much happened to the majority of horror franchises.


Same thing happened with Vader.
They took a story about adventure & saving the galaxy & turned it into a six part biography of Anakin.

So now, if you try to watch the OT, you cant think "Vader is fuckin' evil!" cause you know how much of a pussy the character actually was.
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Postby Fievel on Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:16 am

papalazeru wrote:The end of Ep 3 bugs the hell out of me.

It's not a bad film but the bit where the soldiers go,

"By the way, wipe those droids memories"

Talk about tacking it on.


Sometimes I think that and groan, but when I do that, I also include the following things that were tacked on:

- Padme's funeral. Look's like Anakin's necklace he made her in Ep. 1 brought her DEATH, not "good fortune".
- Yoda to Obi-Wan- "So I learned this new Jedi technique. It's pretty cool. Oh, and guess who taught it to me? QUI-GON'S GHOST!"
- Look, The Death Star!
- Look, it's Grand Moff Tarkin!
- Look, it's Alderaan! 30-year mortgage interest rates at an all-time low!
- Beru to Lars- "Look honey, your low sperm count isn't a problem anymore. We'll raise your nephew!"
- Lars to Beru- "Let him watch me strike a magnificent pose while I look at the suns setting. Because that's all we do here at night -we watch the suns set."

It's almost like Lucas tried to out-ending Return Of The King.
But at the same time, that's why I love the ending(s) of ROTS.
I think all of the winks and nods to the Original Trilogy are fun.
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Postby Fievel on Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:33 am

king_of_nowhere wrote:Same thing happened with Vader.
They took a story about adventure & saving the galaxy & turned it into a six part biography of Anakin.


I fully agree with this criticism. Luke is the main character of the Original Trilogy. We very rarely see any of Vader when he's not at the front of the action. Any time we do see him, it's just to reinforce the fact that he's an evil bastard and that we as an audience should fear him.
Then once the prequels are out, Lucas says that the entire saga is about Anakin's rise, fall, and redemption. It works, I suppose... but it's a forced effort.


king_of_nowhere wrote:So now, if you try to watch the OT, you cant think "Vader is fuckin' evil!" cause you know how much of a pussy the character actually was.


Recently I read someone's criticisms of the prequel trilogy and I agree with them fully on it. They essentially said that Anakin is portrayed as a whiny teenager who often pouts because he doesn't get what he wants. It's not the backstory people had hoped for, but it does make sense. The kid has serious emotional issues. All through his teenage life he has two sides (Jedi & Palpatine) pull at him and twisting his mind around. The Jedi - "He's the chosen one!". Palpatine - "I see you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi, Anakin. Even more powerful than Master Yoda."
It's no wonder the kid had an ego!!!
And then, the worst thing for him happens - he finally gets the girlfriend that he's been obsessing about since he met her. And he REALLY obsessed over her... some serious stalker shit there. All of this turns his mind into pudding. Palpatine realizes this, and plays into it perfectly. Thus creating Vader.

I buy it. It's not necessarily the image of Young Vader I had picture in my mind since I first heard Ben Kenobi talk about Luke's father in the Clone Wars. But, ultimately what we were given does work. It just could have been a lot cooler.
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Postby Nordling on Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:07 pm

Fievel wrote:Look, it's Alderaan! 30-year mortgage interest rates at an all-time low!


Awesome.
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Postby Fried Gold on Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:57 pm

papalazeru wrote:The end of Ep 3 bugs the hell out of me.

It's not a bad film but the bit where the soldiers go,

"By the way, wipe those droids memories"

Talk about tacking it on.

That it's actually only C-3PO who is ordered to have his memory wiped opens up another can of worms.

...so....while you're watching the original trilogy, one now realises that R2-D2 knows everything that's going on and who the major players are, and doesn't tell anyone.
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Postby Nordling on Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:07 pm

Yeah, you would have thought that R2 would have beeped or something when Ben was telling his "certain point of view."

"I bust my ass across Tatooine to get to this asshole and all he does is lie. Fucking Jedi, man..."

I always imagined that R2 cussed like nobody's business. He is a mechanic, after all. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a pin-up calendar of some stripped diodes in his house. I especially like it when R2 plugs in somewhere. "That's right, bitch. You'll swallow my download."
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Postby darkjedijaina on Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:45 am

seems that there was a special on awhile back, portraying R2 as a big pimp. he totally is.
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REVENGE OF THE JEDI

Postby TheButcher on Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:23 pm

From io9: This May Be The Star Wars Movie You're Looking For

Gary Kurtz wrote:The one story thread that got totally tossed out the window, which was really pretty important I think, was the one of Vader trying to convince Luke to join him to overthrow the Emperor. That together they had enough power that they could do that, and it wasn't him saying I want to take over the world and be the evil leader, it was that transition. It was Vader saying, "I'm looking again at what I've done and where my life has gone and who I've served and, very much in the Samurai tradition, and saying if I can join forces with my son, who is just as strong as I am, that maybe we can make some amends." So there was all of that going on in Jedi as well, that was supposed to go on. So the story was quite a bit more poignant and the ending was the coronation of Leia as the queen of what was left of her people, to take over the royal symbol. That meant she was then isolated from all of the rest and Luke went off then by himself. It was basically a kind of bittersweet ending. She's not his sister that dropped in to wrap up everything neatly. His sister was someone else way over on the other side of the galaxy and she wasn't going to show up until the next episode.

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Re: REVENGE OF THE JEDI

Postby Lord Voldemoo on Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:49 pm

TheButcher wrote:From io9: This May Be The Star Wars Movie You're Looking For

Gary Kurtz wrote:The one story thread that got totally tossed out the window, which was really pretty important I think, was the one of Vader trying to convince Luke to join him to overthrow the Emperor. That together they had enough power that they could do that, and it wasn't him saying I want to take over the world and be the evil leader, it was that transition. It was Vader saying, "I'm looking again at what I've done and where my life has gone and who I've served and, very much in the Samurai tradition, and saying if I can join forces with my son, who is just as strong as I am, that maybe we can make some amends." So there was all of that going on in Jedi as well, that was supposed to go on. So the story was quite a bit more poignant and the ending was the coronation of Leia as the queen of what was left of her people, to take over the royal symbol. That meant she was then isolated from all of the rest and Luke went off then by himself. It was basically a kind of bittersweet ending. She's not his sister that dropped in to wrap up everything neatly. His sister was someone else way over on the other side of the galaxy and she wasn't going to show up until the next episode.



Not a riff on you at all, Butch, certainly something worthy of discussion...but that quote is from like 9 years ago. i09 must be having a slow news day...
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Re: REVENGE OF THE JEDI

Postby Fievel on Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:16 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
TheButcher wrote:From io9: This May Be The Star Wars Movie You're Looking For

Gary Kurtz wrote:The one story thread that got totally tossed out the window, which was really pretty important I think, was the one of Vader trying to convince Luke to join him to overthrow the Emperor. That together they had enough power that they could do that, and it wasn't him saying I want to take over the world and be the evil leader, it was that transition. It was Vader saying, "I'm looking again at what I've done and where my life has gone and who I've served and, very much in the Samurai tradition, and saying if I can join forces with my son, who is just as strong as I am, that maybe we can make some amends." So there was all of that going on in Jedi as well, that was supposed to go on. So the story was quite a bit more poignant and the ending was the coronation of Leia as the queen of what was left of her people, to take over the royal symbol. That meant she was then isolated from all of the rest and Luke went off then by himself. It was basically a kind of bittersweet ending. She's not his sister that dropped in to wrap up everything neatly. His sister was someone else way over on the other side of the galaxy and she wasn't going to show up until the next episode.



Not a riff on you at all, Butch, certainly something worthy of discussion...but that quote is from like 9 years ago. i09 must be having a slow news day...


Doesn't make the sting go away any quicker.

Oh... and since this is the general Star Wars thread......Empire sucked compared to the original Star Wars.
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Re:

Postby Nachokoolaid on Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:04 pm

Fievel wrote:My wife and I had this discussion the other day:

How does one introduce Star Wars to upcoming/future children?

-Episodes 4,5,6 then 1,2,3?

or

-Episodes 1,2,34,5,6?

I'm going to say release order 4,5,6,1,2,3. I've got a son coming in May and this is one of those important burning questions. I'd rather start him with Episode 4 as I saw it. The whole "Vader is Luke's father" reveal is infinitely more shocking than "Sidious = Palpatine" could possibly be. Not to mention that I'd hate for my son to watch the first three and then during the second three complain about the lightsaber fights being weak, the special effects looking odd, Luke & Leia kissing way too much for brother & sister, etc.

Is anyone out there going to go 1,2,3,4,5,6 when it's time to introduce your children to Star Wars? And if so, why?


I was discussing this with some students, and one of them was like, I don't get it. (We were talking about dramatic irony- where the audience knows something the character doesn't) Anyway, she says, "It's totally ironic when Vader's like LUKE I AM YOUR FATHER. I mean, we already all knew he was the father from when he was a little kid. Well, duh!" And I told her that may be true now, but orignal audiences were shocked at that relevation. And all I got were dumb stares. Damn prequels. Now kids are watching them out of order, and it's killing one of the more awesome reveals in film history.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Fievel on Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:34 pm

Good point!!
There are NO dramatic reveals in the prequels that warrant a 1-6 viewing order. However, if watched 4-6 then 1-3 you get the surprise that Vader is Luke's father and that Leia is Luke's sister. Then going to the prequels, you find out the Emperor was once a lowly Senator (Sith in disguise) who orchestrated the fall of the Republic, Boba Fett was a clone of his father Jango - who fathered the Clone Troopers, Yoda & Chewie were kickin' it gangsta-style on Kashyyk before Chewie ever met Han Solo, etc. etc. etc.

Then the ultimate question will be does one someday take the time to watch them in order Episodes 1-2, the Clone Wars cartoon, Episode 3, the new live-action series, then finish with Episodes 4-6?

They need to make an animated version of The Force Unleashed game story. That story rocks and I'd much rather watch it as a story than play it.
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Re: REVENGE OF THE JEDI

Postby TheButcher on Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:10 pm

Lord Voldemoo wrote:
TheButcher wrote:From io9: This May Be The Star Wars Movie You're Looking For

Gary Kurtz wrote:The one story thread that got totally tossed out the window, which was really pretty important I think, was the one of Vader trying to convince Luke to join him to overthrow the Emperor. That together they had enough power that they could do that, and it wasn't him saying I want to take over the world and be the evil leader, it was that transition. It was Vader saying, "I'm looking again at what I've done and where my life has gone and who I've served and, very much in the Samurai tradition, and saying if I can join forces with my son, who is just as strong as I am, that maybe we can make some amends." So there was all of that going on in Jedi as well, that was supposed to go on. So the story was quite a bit more poignant and the ending was the coronation of Leia as the queen of what was left of her people, to take over the royal symbol. That meant she was then isolated from all of the rest and Luke went off then by himself. It was basically a kind of bittersweet ending. She's not his sister that dropped in to wrap up everything neatly. His sister was someone else way over on the other side of the galaxy and she wasn't going to show up until the next episode.



Not a riff on you at all, Butch, certainly something worthy of discussion...but that quote is from like 9 years ago. i09 must be having a slow news day...

I know. I remember when Star Wars was supposed to be 12 movies.


From Wiki:
At first Lucas envisioned a series of films with no set number of entries, like the James Bond series. In an interview with Rolling Stone in August 1977, he said that he wanted his friends to each take a turn at directing the films and giving unique interpretations on the series.
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Re: REVENGE OF THE JEDI

Postby TheButcher on Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:46 pm

From TheForce.Net Forums:

Gary Kurtz Reveals Original Plans for Episodes 1-9 Wed, May 26, 99 01:08:05 AM CST

Gary Kurtz, the producer of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, spoke at the Sci-Fi Expo in Plano, TX this weekend along with his daughters Tiffany and Melissa (as children they played Jawas in A New Hope). He shared with the crowd about meeting Lucas, leaving the Star Wars films and the original plans for the entire saga.

Back in the early 70s, Kurtz was looking to use the new Technoscope technology in an upcoming film. Francis Ford Coppola hooked him up with George Lucas who had recently filmed TXH-1138 with Technoscope. Kurtz became interested in Lucas' planned American Graffiti and the partnership was born.

When the time came to produce Return of the Jedi, Kurtz was unhappy with the story direction Lucas was taking. He felt that it was too much of a rehash of the first films with no real challenges. At the same time, Jim Henson was inviting him to produce his experimental film, Dark Crystal, which he chose instead.

Kurtz gave The Phantom Menace a mixed review as he was clouded by plans made for Episode 1 back in the early 70s. As someone involved with Star Wars from the initial concepts, Kurtz revealed the original intentions for the nine films as they were laid out BEFORE 1980. Very interesting.

EPISODE 1: Was to focus on the origins of the Jedi Knights and how they are initiated and trained

EPISODE 2: Introduction and development of Obi-Wan Kenobi

EPISODE 3: Introduction and life of Vader

EPISODE 4: There were seven different drafts of the film. At one point, they pursued buying the rights to Hidden Fortress because of the strong similarities. At one point, Luke was a female, Han was Luke's brother, Luke's father was the one in prison (interesting point for some debates) and the film featured 40 wookies

EPISODE 5: Once written, the screenplay of Empire is almost exactly what is seen on screen. The only cut scenes were those involving wampas in the rebel base (cut because of time and unsolved technical glitches) and about two minutes of Luke/Yoda Jedi training with no real dialog.

EPISODE 6: Leia was to be elected "Queen of her people" leaving her isolated. Han was to die. Luke confronted Vader and went on with his life alone. Leia was not to be Luke's sister.

EPISODE 7: Third trilogy was to focus on Luke's life as a Jedi, with very few details planned out.

EPISODE 8: Luke's sister (not Leia) appears from another part of the galaxy.

EPISODE 9: First appearance of the Emperor.





From Time magazine May 19 1980.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[The very first surprise in The Empire Strikes Back comes in the
opening credits: the movie is identified as Episode V. Since it is
the immediate sequel to the original Star Wars. That opus has been
retitled Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope, raising a meteor shower of
questions. The answers: Lucas has begun his space saga in the middle,
and both pictures are the centerpieces of a projected nine-part
series. The remaining movies, fore and aft, have not yet been laid
out in detail, but Lucas hs the framework, a kind of history of what
happened in that galaxy long ago and far away. A preview:

For years the universe was governed by a republic, which was
regulated by the order of Jedi Knight who bore a vague resemblance to
Japanese Samurai warriors. But eventually the citizens of the
republic "didn't care enough to elect competent officials," says Lucas
the historian, and so their government collapsed. A sorcerer, a bad
counterpart of Yoda, blocked all opposition and declared himself
Emperor. He was not seen in Star Wars: Episode IV, but he makes a
brief appearance in The Empire.

The Emperor subverts Darth Vader to his side, and together he
and VAder betray the other Knights, nearly all of whom are killed in
their trap. Ben Kenobi escapes, and after a fierce struggle he does
such injury to Vader that forever after Vader must wear a mask and
that noisy life-support system. The fall of the republic and the rise
of the empire will form the first of Lucas' three trilogies.

The second trilogy, which opened with Star Wars: Episode IV,
center on Luke Skywalker, who will be seen as a child in Episode III.
The Empire continues the Skywalker story, and Episode VI, the next
film to be made, which will be called Revenge of the Jedi, will end
it, with either Luke or Darth Vader walking away from thier final
bout. The last three episodes involve the rebuilding of the republic.
Only two of the main characters will appear in all nine films,
and they are the robots, Artoo Detoo and See Threepio. Says Lucas:
"In effect, the story will be told through their eyes."


From STARKILLER: LOOKING BACK TO THE FUTURE OF STAR WARS
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:54 pm

Star Wars 7-9 - You think you want it, but you don't.

Really.

Come on, the talk of these upcoming films are more interesting than these films really will be. We've seen all this FX Whiz bang big explosion followed by ooh wow something flying right at the screen and tired characters and story that we've heard enough of already to warrant anything new in this worn out and frankly dulled universe. Move on. The streeeeeeetttcccchhhh in story. I CAN'T BEAR IT!!!
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Fievel on Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:26 pm

I remember the 9-movie article from when I was a kid, especially the part about the droids being the only constant in the picture.
Looking at that, they kept pretty close to the Time article in regards to 1-3.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby EricG on Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:25 am

OK Peeps....now Fi-Sci might get sued for even publishing this but, i'm Australian, so I don't give a shit and they can all go and kiss my ass.

that said....


DARTH VADER MAY HAVE TO SUE LUCASFILM!

You got that right....Why!? I hear you ask...I'll tell you why, because David Prowse keeps getting letters from Lucasfilm saying that Return of the Jedi hasn't made a profit! What the fuck, i hear you ask?

Well....you can always go to http://www.fi-sci.com/movie-news/darth-vader-may-have-to-sue-lucas and find out but, for you zoners, here it is right here;

David Prowse spoke to Equity Magazine recently - this is a Sci-Fi site, so I really shouldn't need to say that he is the actor who played (not voiced) Darth Vader in Star wars - who claims that Lucasfilm has yet to pay him any residual payments on Return of the Jedi because...wait for it....the film has yet to make a profit!?

“I get these occasional letters from Lucasfilm saying that we regret to inform you that as Return of the Jedi has never gone into profit, we’ve got nothing to send you. Now here we’re talking about one of the biggest releases of all time,” said Prowse. “I don’t want to look like I’m bitching about it,” he said, “but on the other hand, if there’s a pot of gold somewhere that I ought to be having a share of, I would like to see it.”

Now, its not hard to imagine that Mr. Prowse could be mistaken seeing that Return of the Jedi has grossed over $572 million worldwide, which includes an estimated $88 million when the film was re-released in 1997. TimesOnline even attempted to call Lucasfilm on the matter but they declined to comment as a matter of policy. Having said that, there's still more going on here then meets the eye. Prowse goes on to say;

“There is a big difference between having a share of the gross profit and having a share of the net profit. It is a huge difference in just one word. Sometimes, with net profit, with all the expenses and so on, it seems like you end up paying them.”

Still....how can this be possible? How can Prowse be right?! How could Lucasfilm possibly say that Return of the Jedi didn't make a profit??? Here's the answer;

Gross profit is what you get if you are a big enough actor or producer to demand this. You get a percentage of profit based on the gross of the film - how much it makes before any costs. Therefore, you are guaranteed to get paid since the studio can’t hide anything. Very few people can demand gross points. But if you have them and your film hits big, you make millions. In fact, this can be so profitable you will sometimes see big stars forgo any salary at all except union minimum just to get these points.

Unfortunately, Mr. Prowse relates what is almost universally the case with a net profit clause. Studios almost never pay on this clause, as they claim nearly any and every expense possible to keep the film from showing any actual profit. Very few films have ever shown a net profit on the books.

How do they do this? Well first, imagine that George Lucas decided to go to New York tomorrow to talk about showing Return of the Jedi in 3D. And he stayed at the Ritz Carlton, ordered sushi at 3 a.m. from room service and used the hotel phone to call Bahrain to make prank calls.

Well, 26 years after the release of the film, the accountants at Lucasfilm are going to charge $86,000 to the costs of Return of the Jedi. I am NOT joking. This is what they do. If George Lucas
utters the words Star Wars and he’s spending money, they’re putting it on the red line for one of those films.

On the flipside, Mr. Prowse would be wise to use the FORCE, aka a lawyer, to get Lucasfilm to cough up. You see, as you can tell by the above, the accounting is utter bullshit. And on a film like Return of the Jedi, Lucasfilm would be extremely reluctant to open its books in open court. Extremely reluctant because of how incredibly embarrassed studios have been in the past when they have made the mistake of doing this. Plus, the ensuing publicity would be embarrassing to Lucasfilm. Can you imagine the hedlines if Darth Vader sued George Lucas?

In short, if you have net participation on a film that has grossed hundreds of millions, you may get some dough, but you’ll have to sue to get it.


So, how determined is Prowse on getting his hands on that "pot of gold" he mentioned? I'm sure if he ever does make his move, it will all be done behind closed doors and we'll probably never hear of it again!
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby RogueScribner on Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:41 pm

Why is this just being made public now? Did Prowse only recently realize that, yeah, the movie actually did make a lot of money?

Fucking Hollywood. If it suits them, they'll adhere to a contract to the letter. If it doesn't, they try to find every loophole around it.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Fievel on Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:10 pm

RogueScribner wrote:Why is this just being made public now? Did Prowse only recently realize that, yeah, the movie actually did make a lot of money?

Fucking Hollywood. If it suits them, they'll adhere to a contract to the letter. If it doesn't, they try to find every loophole around it.


He IS quite tall.... perhaps it takes a while for news to reach him?
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Peven on Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:20 pm

it really is something akin to the feeling in greek tragedy the way i idolized Lucas as a 10 year old when the first "Star Wars" came out, and even through the following decade with the sequels, despite the let down of ROTJ, but yet now find myself wondering if i could think much less of him. i wouldn't put any stock in his ability to produce a quality piece of work these days either
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby max314 on Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:41 am

Here are my two cents on the controversial saga.

DISCLAIMER: My opinions may cause hardcore Star Wars fans to go mad. I hereby accept no responsibility for any insanity my comments may cause.




Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (Lucas, 1977):
Boring first hour followed by a pretty fun second hour. At the beginning I was like, "Is this Star Wars or Sand Wars?"


Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (Kershner, 1980):
Han and Leia escape some ships. And sit in a cave. Luke goes to a swamp planet. And sits in a swamp. Turns out Han and Leia aren't in a cave, so they go to the Cloud City. And sit in the Cloud City. Meanwhile, Luke's still sitting in a swamp. But turns out Cloud City isn't safe, so Luke gets up from his swamp to save his friends. Honestly, the only worthwhile part in the whole film is the final act and the showdown between Luke and Vader. It's like the film's been on autopilot till that point.


Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (Marquand, 1983):
Jabba stuff's boring. The stuff on Endor isn't bad. The final act is pretty awesome.


Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace: (Lucas, 1999):
Lucas tries to balance far too many parallel storylines and it ends up coming across as a patchy, badly structured muddle. A consequence of this poor structuring is the fact that the saga's protagonist - Anakin Skywalker - doesn't enter stage until 30 minutes of screentime have elapsed. Someone as experienced as Lucas should have gone, "Hang on a sec...something smells funky here." There are some good bits in it, but it was in desperate need of a rewrite.


Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (Lucas, 2002):
The most balanced and well crafted film of the saga, and the movie responsible for turning me into a Star Wars fan.


Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (Lucas, 2005):
Not as balanced as its predecessor, but very emotional.




On the topic of dramatic reveals, I actually think the saga plays better going Eps.1-6. The reason is that there are plenty of dramatic turns in the prequel trilogy for first-time viewers who have never seen the original trilogy (e.g. the mysterious machinations of the Sith, the fall of Anakin Skywalker, etc). In fact, there are more mysteries and turning points in the prequel trilogy than there are in the original trilogy. And as for the original trilogy's only major reveal, by watching them from Eps.1-6, the drama takes on a completely different dynamic in that WE KNOW that Vader is Luke's father, but Luke does not. Thus all the scenes in A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back are coloured with a new tension that - to me - makes the rather boring stories of A New Hope and Empire far more interesting.

I sometimes wish I'd seen the saga from Ep.1-6 when I was a kid. Maybe I'd actually have enjoyed them back then instead of being bored shitless through most of it.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Peven on Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:33 pm

max314 wrote:
On the topic of dramatic reveals, I actually think the saga plays better going Eps.1-6. The reason is that there are plenty of dramatic turns in the prequel trilogy for first-time viewers who have never seen the original trilogy (e.g. the mysterious machinations of the Sith, the fall of Anakin Skywalker, etc). In fact, there are more mysteries and turning points in the prequel trilogy than there are in the original trilogy. And as for the original trilogy's only major reveal, by watching them from Eps.1-6, the drama takes on a completely different dynamic in that WE KNOW that Vader is Luke's father, but Luke does not. Thus all the scenes in A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back are coloured with a new tension that - to me - makes the rather boring stories of A New Hope and Empire far more interesting.



also makes the romantic aspect of Luke and Leia's relationship in ep IV and V all the more creepy....
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby max314 on Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:45 pm

Peven wrote:also makes the romantic aspect of Luke and Leia's relationship in ep IV and V all the more creepy....


Yeah, but so does rewatching the original trilogy in retrospect.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby so sorry on Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:49 pm

max314 wrote:Here are my two cents on the controversial saga.

Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (Lucas, 2002):
The most balanced and well crafted film of the saga, and the movie responsible for turning me into a Star Wars fan.


You see, I read this and I immediately think you're just being a contrarian douche (and I mean that in a nice way, not in a "you're a dick" way :wink: ).

I understand that an argument can be made over which episode is better than others, but in no way, shape or form should Attack of the Clones be included in such a debate. Its beyond terrible, and to say that its what turned you into a Star Wars fan is silly.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby max314 on Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:54 pm

so sorry wrote:
max314 wrote:Here are my two cents on the controversial saga.

Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (Lucas, 2002):
The most balanced and well crafted film of the saga, and the movie responsible for turning me into a Star Wars fan.


You see, I read this and I immediately think you're just being a contrarian douche (and I mean that in a nice way, not in a "you're a dick" way :wink: ).

I understand that an argument can be made over which episode is better than others, but in no way, shape or form should Attack of the Clones be included in such a debate. Its beyond terrible, and to say that its what turned you into a Star Wars fan is silly.


Because...?
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby so sorry on Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:56 pm

max314 wrote:
so sorry wrote:
max314 wrote:Here are my two cents on the controversial saga.

Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (Lucas, 2002):
The most balanced and well crafted film of the saga, and the movie responsible for turning me into a Star Wars fan.


You see, I read this and I immediately think you're just being a contrarian douche (and I mean that in a nice way, not in a "you're a dick" way :wink: ).

I understand that an argument can be made over which episode is better than others, but in no way, shape or form should Attack of the Clones be included in such a debate. Its beyond terrible, and to say that its what turned you into a Star Wars fan is silly.


Because...?



Cause I said so? :D
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby max314 on Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:07 pm

so sorry wrote:
max314 wrote:Because...?



Cause I said so? :D


I stand corrected :lol:

I think Attack of the Clones is both a genuinely compelling character study (this is a snapshot of Anakin at a key transitional stage in his life), and also works as a mysterious mythology as we see gradually see various elements we recognise from the original trilogy and wonder how they will all fit into place.

It's also a very well balanced film. The first act is very much about developing Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship. The story then divides into two parallel plots - one following Anakin's emotional conflict over Padmé, and the other following Ob-Wan tracking the mysterious bounty hunter across in a galactic game of cat-and-mouse. The third act then rejoins these two plot strands, resolving itself with the dawn of the Clone War and Anakin deciding to give in to his emotions.

It basically follows a similar structure to The Empire Strikes Back, but unlike that massive mountain of mundaneness, Attack of the Clones has some really interesting character development. And I know you're going to say, "But Luke learned to use the Force!"

But I'm just going to respond by saying, "Those few scenes with Yoda giving Luke nuggets of wisdom were pretty cool, but it doesn't compare to the sustained character development seen in Clones."

But that's me.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby TheBaxter on Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:46 pm

however good the character development or plot in AOTC might have been, it's all undermined and ruined by Lucas' atrocious dialogue and Hayden's ham-fisted acting.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Ribbons on Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:17 pm

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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby max314 on Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:21 pm

TheBaxter wrote:however good the character development or plot in AOTC might have been, it's all undermined and ruined by Lucas' atrocious dialogue and Hayden's ham-fisted acting.


Not for me, actually.

I think far too much is made of the allegedly bad dialogue and bad acting.

Is it Shakespeare as performed by Al Pacino? Clearly not. But is it irredeemably bad? Well, not unless you include the dialogue and wooden performances in the original trilogy.

Going into the film with a certain expectation of the type of dialogue and performances I'd see, it sat perfectly fine with me.

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Excellent :mrgreen:
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Nachokoolaid on Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:40 pm

Max314, were you about Anakin's age when you saw Ep. II? If so, perhaps that's why you can relate to him so well in that one?

Anyway, I rank Ep. II as the shittiest of the entire saga, so for someone to have it as their favorite seems odd to me, but different strokes, I guess. It seems like it could have been SO much better, and really just failed on a lot of levels.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Doc Holliday on Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 pm

max314 wrote:Is it Shakespeare as performed by Al Pacino? Clearly not. But is it irredeemably bad?


Must you ask the same question twice? :twisted:
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby Fievel on Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:10 pm

Perhaps Max only saw the IMAX cut which chopped a lot of the romance/stalkerannakin scenes, and was a much better picture for it.
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