...and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (spoilers!)

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

How awesome is the new Indy film?

10
3
4%
9
9
12%
8
11
15%
7
16
21%
6
13
17%
5
7
9%
4
8
11%
3
2
3%
2
1
1%
1
2
3%
The Last Crusade was the LAST friggin' crusade, I ain't watchin' this!!!
0
No votes
Waiting for the Special Edition DVD with extended Cantina/Jabba's Palace scenes
3
4%
 
Total votes : 75

Postby havocSchultz on Thu May 22, 2008 9:55 am

Pacino86845 wrote:That's a great review havoc, thanks for writing!

EDIT: Poll is up!


It wasn't for you!

But thanks for the poll...
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Postby judderman on Thu May 22, 2008 11:27 am

I'm with you, Havoc. One of the problems with this movie's MacGuffin is that we never really get a sense of the power of these creatures. The Ark had the melting faces, Sankara had the revived village and the burning bag, the Grail had the old knight. There was an understanding of what they could do. What we get with these skulls is a lot of magnetism and Cate Blanchett turning into CG bits.

That said, I liked it, for the most part, though at no point did I ever feel exhilarated. The film lacked a standout action sequence, and, for the first time, I felt that the opening sequence was a disappointment. Indy escaping a nuclear explosion by hiding in a fridge was too much even for my disposable sense of disbelief. And don't get me started on the prairie dogs. The actors were good; Blanchett obviously had a blast playing her role, and it shows. Shia was OK, though I still pine for how good River Phoenix would have been in that role. Allen smiled a few too many times, but it was obvious she and Harrison had chemistry. I really didn't like Winstone's or Hurt's characters. The whole, "I'm-a-traitor-no-I'm-not" theme was tiresome, and did nothing to expand or deepen the character. I can only assume Hurt took his role for the cheque, and I hope they paid him a lot, because it was humiliating to see him babble cod-poetic gibberish without a break.
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Postby havocSchultz on Thu May 22, 2008 11:34 am

judderman wrote:I'm with you, Havoc. One of the problems with this movie's MacGuffin is that we never really get a sense of the power of these creatures. The Ark had the melting faces, Sankara had the revived village and the burning bag, the Grail had the old knight. There was an understanding of what they could do. What we get with these skulls is a lot of magnetism and Cate Blanchett turning into CG bits.

That said, I liked it, for the most part, though at no point did I ever feel exhilarated. The film lacked a standout action sequence, and, for the first time, I felt that the opening sequence was a disappointment. Indy escaping a nuclear explosion by hiding in a fridge was too much even for my disposable sense of disbelief. And don't get me started on the prairie dogs. The actors were good; Blanchett obviously had a blast playing her role, and it shows. Shia was OK, though I still pine for how good River Phoenix would have been in that role. Allen smiled a few too many times, but it was obvious she and Harrison had chemistry. I really didn't like Winstone's or Hurt's characters. The whole, "I'm-a-traitor-no-I'm-not" theme was tiresome, and did nothing to expand or deepen the character. I can only assume Hurt took his role for the cheque, and I hope they paid him a lot, because it was humiliating to see him babble cod-poetic gibberish without a break.


Yeah...
That all sounds about right...

In regards to Shia, you think he would've known what kinda guy brings a knife to a gun fight...
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Postby travis-dane on Thu May 22, 2008 11:52 am

I voted for the DVD release....
But good reviews guys.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am

Nice review Havoc - captured a lot of what I felt too.

Anyway, here's my own to ruminate on -

I'll admit I was pretty excited when I went in to see this film. Fuxxakes, it's Indiana fucking JONES, man! I was bound to like at least 60% of it. There's no way to actually fuck up the formula. Well, maybe a little, depending on what your thoughts of sticking to formula in the first place is.

If you loved either Temple of Doom of The Raiders of the Lost Ark, you're going to enjoy the majority of what this film has to offer. It's like Spielberg's taken the pulp sensibilities and cartoonish monkeying (literally) around of the sequel-prequel, and the feel, familial relationships and plotting of the second and rammed them together with a bit of Mission To Mars added for... well, I'm not sure really. Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoyed the change in the central macguffin as it totally suited the newer 1950's setting, but there's many a reason as to why that comparasion is justified.

The story itself is your basic Indy fetch quest - the now typical hook of an old colleague going missing, coupled with the arrival of Mutt Williams as a sidekick, off to find a hidden treasure that's packed away in amongst hidden clues and ancient surrounds. It starts off with a literal bang though, and although I can definitely nod to Havoc's disappointment with the title card, the music and scene-setting is typically Spielberg-slick. I even dug the little jokes that he pops in there, yes including the prairie dogs (who doesn't love those little critters), and the introduction back to Indy's world of danger and excitement through the first action sequence is top-notch. Ford steps back into the hat with all the grit he can muster, but pulls it back when needed to show that this Indy's now on roads well travelled. The obligatory scenes in the University and Indy's house show a grizzled man who's seen it all (and more, some nice references to other stories get you thinking) and felt loss. One line in particular about life taking things away as you get older, delivered by none other than now movie-regular Jim Broadbent (is there anything he's not in these days), is particularly heartfelt and Ford's little reaction to it really hit the character home.

Moving on to Mutt, Shia LeBeef manages to actually hold up really bloody well in this film. I was suprised by this as he's always seemed a kind of comic-relief actor in the past, maybe building on that a little in Transformers, but he manages to pack away the Shia-isms pretty well and deliver a kid who can hold his own like, well, a young Indiana. The rapport between him and Indy Jnr is spikey and he acquits himself really well in the fights, his natural comic timing ably comparing to Ford's mid-action scene, and he always feels credible and well-rounded. I wouldn't mind seeing another movie with him in, to be honest - not sure I could endure a spinoff, but there's no reason he couldn't make a brilliant action hero at some point. Not giving too much away, but the ending gave a nice nod to maybe keeping everything under wraps - at least for the time being.

Bringing Marion back was also a great idea. What little is said between the two is nicely dealt with and to be frank, I'm glad that the film didn't end up pressing too hard on what happened to them, what they've been doing, or allowing them to argue more than is necessary. Frankly Karen isn't the strongest thing in this film, as noted before in previous reviews, but she manages to ignite some of the old Raiders passion between the two, even if it's oldie passion. Ew.

Whilst not nearly as weak as the villains in The Last Crusade, the bad guys are again merely a repetition of the Nazi formula from the first and the third films, only this time the dangers of Doom are also replicated by repeating the same threatening native stereotypes - but with nothing to say and far less interesting as they're kind of thrown in. Cate Blanchett's Irina is a reasonable main bad guy, maybe not quite as interesting as Raiders' Belloq but certainly with more background than Ram. I almost wish they'd done a little bit more with her psychic power thing, but unfortunately the film doesn't really go anywhere with it other than to give Indy something to smile wryly about. Her henchman, replete with second-rate Pat "Bomber" Roach, manage to provide decent enough cannon fodder and quite a few hilarious deaths, so they do their job. Winstone's Mac seems doomed to merely repeat the errors of all greedy Indy villains and his interesting turnabouts of character don't quite lead anywhere, making him feel rather impotent. Although I enjoyed what they provided in terms of crunchy action, it's a shame that none of them seem to provide any credible threat to Indy again, and I really felt a twinge of missed potential.

As for the action, well, the first half of the film is superb. Funnily enough all the best bits, for me at least, are concentrated there, the highlight being the (to my mind, contraversial I know), nuclear blast and university motorbike chases. As soon as they hit the jungle, the movie seems to lose steam, but once the jeep chase begins I was back in the action. The film also provides some beautifully squeamish moments reminscent of Doom - Spielberg and Lucas could do well to loosen up a bit and let some of the more pulpy ideas be stretched out a bit if there's a next time! If. The references, for the most part, also didn't get in the way.

Back to the macguffin, which leads me to the end of the movie. The change of era helped a lot in making me swallow this. There's no reason why anyone couldn't relax into the (not giving anything away, frankly, it's obvious from the start) alien angle, as it ties in with a lot of other historical backstory and never really veers too far into the realm of sci-fi. Unfortunately, it also gives Spielberg a chance to invest in what's rapidly becoming a really fucking annoying trait - not being able to follow up on the payoff. And why? Well, think AI, think War of The Worlds. Then maybe think Mission to Mars. The weakest element was not following up on the wonderfully designed Skull, and later Mayan portraits - I think that's enough for those of you that've seen it to know what I'm getting at. The film literally manages to balls up part of the ending entirely, which frankly is a shame - and it's not just picking either. Thankfully the usual "light show" (think Raiders-esque, only "MOAR!") managed to regain my attention right at the end, but at the point where the macguffin comes together and provides us with the "revelation", I literally wanted to get out of the cinema, jump on a plane, kidnap Spielberg and give him a right telling off.

OK, so generally - I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it as much as any Indy spin-off featuring Indy could get (that's a pretty high compliment). It managed to rock my socks in many places, even after the slowdown in the middle. But where does it come when listing out the faves? Well, I sit with Mori on this one. I enjoyed it more than Last Crusade, but I'd imagine many would enjoy it Temple of Doom, so I guess - depending on your POV - that makes it the third best of a very, very good serial.

And thinking once more, what would the theme be on this one this time round? If the first was revelation, the second realisation, the third illumination, maybe the last is rejuvination. Heh. Worth thinking on and talking about, perhaps?
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Postby Vegeta on Thu May 22, 2008 12:01 pm

My fiance is out of town for the weekend (a girls only trip to the Mall of America *cringe*), so I will likely see this on Sunday afternoon. I am working to not get my hopes up too high. Mostly I just hope this is an Indiana Jones film and not some Spielberg/Lucas disaster. Neither of those two have impressed me in many, many years and the two of them together could be magic, or could be shit. I'll split the difference and hope that KOTCS is a little better than okay.
*crosses fingers*
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Thu May 22, 2008 12:11 pm

Don't go in expecting the world, you'll be good. And see it in a packed theater of whooping Americans.
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Postby havocSchultz on Thu May 22, 2008 12:24 pm

AtomicHyperbole wrote:Nice review Havoc - captured a lot of what I felt too.

Anyway, here's my own to ruminate on -

I'll admit I was pretty excited when I went in to see this film. Fuxxakes, it's Indiana fucking JONES, man! I was bound to like at least 60% of it. There's no way to actually fuck up the formula. Well, maybe a little, depending on what your thoughts of sticking to formula in the first place is.

If you loved either Temple of Doom of The Raiders of the Lost Ark, you're going to enjoy the majority of what this film has to offer. It's like Spielberg's taken the pulp sensibilities and cartoonish monkeying (literally) around of the sequel-prequel, and the feel, familial relationships and plotting of the second and rammed them together with a bit of Mission To Mars added for... well, I'm not sure really. Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoyed the change in the central macguffin as it totally suited the newer 1950's setting, but there's many a reason as to why that comparasion is justified.

The story itself is your basic Indy fetch quest - the now typical hook of an old colleague going missing, coupled with the arrival of Mutt Williams as a sidekick, off to find a hidden treasure that's packed away in amongst hidden clues and ancient surrounds. It starts off with a literal bang though, and although I can definitely nod to Havoc's disappointment with the title card, the music and scene-setting is typically Spielberg-slick. I even dug the little jokes that he pops in there, yes including the prairie dogs (who doesn't love those little critters), and the introduction back to Indy's world of danger and excitement through the first action sequence is top-notch. Ford steps back into the hat with all the grit he can muster, but pulls it back when needed to show that this Indy's now on roads well travelled. The obligatory scenes in the University and Indy's house show a grizzled man who's seen it all (and more, some nice references to other stories get you thinking) and felt loss. One line in particular about life taking things away as you get older, delivered by none other than now movie-regular Jim Broadbent (is there anything he's not in these days), is particularly heartfelt and Ford's little reaction to it really hit the character home.

Moving on to Mutt, Shia LeBeef manages to actually hold up really bloody well in this film. I was suprised by this as he's always seemed a kind of comic-relief actor in the past, maybe building on that a little in Transformers, but he manages to pack away the Shia-isms pretty well and deliver a kid who can hold his own like, well, a young Indiana. The rapport between him and Indy Jnr is spikey and he acquits himself really well in the fights, his natural comic timing ably comparing to Ford's mid-action scene, and he always feels credible and well-rounded. I wouldn't mind seeing another movie with him in, to be honest - not sure I could endure a spinoff, but there's no reason he couldn't make a brilliant action hero at some point. Not giving too much away, but the ending gave a nice nod to maybe keeping everything under wraps - at least for the time being.

Bringing Marion back was also a great idea. What little is said between the two is nicely dealt with and to be frank, I'm glad that the film didn't end up pressing too hard on what happened to them, what they've been doing, or allowing them to argue more than is necessary. Frankly Karen isn't the strongest thing in this film, as noted before in previous reviews, but she manages to ignite some of the old Raiders passion between the two, even if it's oldie passion. Ew.

Whilst not nearly as weak as the villains in The Last Crusade, the bad guys are again merely a repetition of the Nazi formula from the first and the third films, only this time the dangers of Doom are also replicated by repeating the same threatening native stereotypes - but with nothing to say and far less interesting as they're kind of thrown in. Cate Blanchett's Irina is a reasonable main bad guy, maybe not quite as interesting as Raiders' Belloq but certainly with more background than Ram. I almost wish they'd done a little bit more with her psychic power thing, but unfortunately the film doesn't really go anywhere with it other than to give Indy something to smile wryly about. Her henchman, replete with second-rate Pat "Bomber" Roach, manage to provide decent enough cannon fodder and quite a few hilarious deaths, so they do their job. Winstone's Mac seems doomed to merely repeat the errors of all greedy Indy villains and his interesting turnabouts of character don't quite lead anywhere, making him feel rather impotent. Although I enjoyed what they provided in terms of crunchy action, it's a shame that none of them seem to provide any credible threat to Indy again, and I really felt a twinge of missed potential.

As for the action, well, the first half of the film is superb. Funnily enough all the best bits, for me at least, are concentrated there, the highlight being the (to my mind, contraversial I know), nuclear blast and university motorbike chases. As soon as they hit the jungle, the movie seems to lose steam, but once the jeep chase begins I was back in the action. The film also provides some beautifully squeamish moments reminscent of Doom - Spielberg and Lucas could do well to loosen up a bit and let some of the more pulpy ideas be stretched out a bit if there's a next time! If. The references, for the most part, also didn't get in the way.

Back to the macguffin, which leads me to the end of the movie. The change of era helped a lot in making me swallow this. There's no reason why anyone couldn't relax into the (not giving anything away, frankly, it's obvious from the start) alien angle, as it ties in with a lot of other historical backstory and never really veers too far into the realm of sci-fi. Unfortunately, it also gives Spielberg a chance to invest in what's rapidly becoming a really fucking annoying trait - not being able to follow up on the payoff. And why? Well, think AI, think War of The Worlds. Then maybe think Mission to Mars. The weakest element was not following up on the wonderfully designed Skull, and later Mayan portraits - I think that's enough for those of you that've seen it to know what I'm getting at. The film literally manages to balls up part of the ending entirely, which frankly is a shame - and it's not just picking either. Thankfully the usual "light show" (think Raiders-esque, only "MOAR!") managed to regain my attention right at the end, but at the point where the macguffin comes together and provides us with the "revelation", I literally wanted to get out of the cinema, jump on a plane, kidnap Spielberg and give him a right telling off.

OK, so generally - I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it as much as any Indy spin-off featuring Indy could get (that's a pretty high compliment). It managed to rock my socks in many places, even after the slowdown in the middle. But where does it come when listing out the faves? Well, I sit with Mori on this one. I enjoyed it more than Last Crusade, but I'd imagine many would enjoy it Temple of Doom, so I guess - depending on your POV - that makes it the third best of a very, very good serial.

And thinking once more, what would the theme be on this one this time round? If the first was revelation, the second realisation, the third illumination, maybe the last is rejuvination. Heh. Worth thinking on and talking about, perhaps?


Well done...

And I wasn't necessarily knocking the opening...it was pure Spielberg...
But I would've liked maybe a Title Card just before anything started.

Just a flash of the title, maybe a tease of the music and then cut to the opening...

Did you catch the reference to the Ark early on...?

I agree with you on Shia...
After Disturbia, Transformers, and this, I can see what Spielberg sees in him...

He's got a bit of Tom Hanks likability to him, even when he's trying to be a d00ch...

And I enjoyed the "quicksand" scene for the most part...and thought it had a nice payoff...

And I might've bought into the whole sci-fi/macguffin thing easier if it hadn't been for the payoff at the end...or lack thereof...which it seems we agree on...

So, in my opinion, is wasn't that they didn't set up the feasibility of it up well enough, I think eventually I just stopped caring, and soon after it seemed to be a justifiable reaction...

And I think they were originally intending to have it be longer...feels like it could've been more like 2.5 hours...
Like the afore mentioned Cate psychic abilities storyline that was kinda dropped...along with a few others...it seems like they decided after 20 years, people would be more interested in the instant gratification of the slam bang, without having as much build up...

And for profitability sakes, it was probably the right decision...

And I liken my feelings to this film are similar to my feelings towards War of the Worlds...
This is still all around better and more enjoyable...but I did like a lot of what Spielberg did with WotW...the action and destruction and suspense scenes were top notch...and it all fell apart at the end...

Like I said, Indy I still feel is better, and I would still say I liked this ending more...and upon subsequent viewings, I might be able to sit back and totally change my viewpoint on it...

I've said it before (as have many others), Spielberg, when he tries, is a master at action and fucking mayhem...

Take away all the CGI (or at least the overtly CGI/can only be done by CGI) stuff, and you still have some premiere action, adventure, and fight scenes...

Many, many tripod-less shaky cam aficionados need to sit down and take some fucking notes...
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Thu May 22, 2008 12:47 pm

@havoc - yup, caught all the references, didn't want to over-spoiler the review though. I'll have to say I prefer WOTW (even if it suffers the same huge design fault and lack of a credible ending, a Spielberg trademark) but then I love the original story and think it's got some of Spielbergs craziest moments.

Agreed about all the usual guff that haunts blockbusters these days. Some of the best stuff was physical, and any duff CGI was taken away by the momentum of the film. I even swallowed the fridge and swinging Shia, it was just FUN. Since when was fun so serious? And the action was incredibly well staged, as you say. There was also a really lovely model shot over the graveyard, which looked it but was nicely artistic.

Not sure I could ever like those few seconds that nearly ruin the ending for me. I'll just have to swallow them as they don't detract from a spectacular final shot!
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Postby havocSchultz on Thu May 22, 2008 12:49 pm

I did enjoy the plethora of Hero Shots Spielberg gave us...
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Thu May 22, 2008 12:53 pm

Oh yes. Say what you want about the fridge but the shot afterwards rubbed me right on the cinema gland.
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Postby havocSchultz on Thu May 22, 2008 1:25 pm

AtomicHyperbole wrote:Oh yes. Say what you want about the fridge but the shot afterwards rubbed me right on the cinema gland.


So that's what that smell was...
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Thu May 22, 2008 1:31 pm

You were sitting behind me again?

Wondered what that jabbing was at the back of my chair.
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Postby havocSchultz on Thu May 22, 2008 1:33 pm

That was my crystal skull...
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Thu May 22, 2008 1:40 pm

Damn, I should've recalled that distinctive domed head of yours.
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Postby havocSchultz on Thu May 22, 2008 1:44 pm

AtomicHyperbole wrote:Damn, I should've recalled that distinctive domed head of yours.


That's what she said...
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Postby buster00 on Thu May 22, 2008 2:19 pm

I'm giving it a solid 8 1/2. Nah, fuck it, round it up to a 9.

I thought it delivered the goods pretty well. It pretty much does what an Indiana Jones movie is supposed to do. At times, a bit corny and farfetched, but that's part of the charm of the series.
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Postby Evil Hobbit on Thu May 22, 2008 7:24 pm

Just came back, to late to write full impressions but I really really really loathed the script! What a terrible mess. The entire adventure was filled with in your face exposition dialogue. Every discovery was explained and never discovered, hence the adventure never became an adventure. If it wasn't for some strokes of Spielberg genius this film would have been disastrous. The lack of plot made this film have no tension at all and the bad guys, specially Irena, where terrible. And OX god damn it! That was like the JAR JAR of this film. Never before have I been so disappointed in a Spielberg film. I think for the first time, I know how it felt to watch the Phantom Menace as a grown up. So sad. I can't believe what I just watched. Deep in my heart I would rate it 4/10 but some like the nuclear explosion and the university chase lift it to a 6/10. Maybe it'll improve on multiple viewings. On a side note, the film is way to tame, where's the old Indy gore???
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Thu May 22, 2008 7:25 pm

In Temple of Doom.
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Postby instant_karma on Thu May 22, 2008 8:29 pm

I gave it a 7.

Harrison Ford slips back into Indy like he's never been away. He and Shia have great chemistry and I could definately stand to watch them together again.

This one definately has the most humour of all the Indy films, and I didn't mind that one bit. I thought the punchline of the bike chase and the quicksand scene were both very funny. There was even Ford saying 'I've got a bad feeling about this' for a bit of a Star Wars crossover.

Having said that, WTF was the deal with the prairie dogs and the monkeys? That's gotta be Lucas' doing. I bet he snuck into the editing room just before they were going to lock down the final print and pressed the big 'Lucasfilm CGI Comedy Animal Generator' button while Spielberg wasn't looking.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Thu May 22, 2008 9:57 pm

Dear Mr. Spielberg,

I write to kindly ask you to stop boring me. I get it now. You are tired, your friends are tired, and it's difficult to come up with new ideas and be the man you were 20 or 30 years ago, but I would ask that you stop wasting my time. If you wouldn't mind, stop making movies in genres I find entertaining: thrillers, science fiction, fantasy, cinema. While you certainly have a love of these things, it's quite evident that you really don't know what to do with them. My first suspicion was the abrupt ending to Jurassic Park with it's Deus ex Machinasaur, but continually over the last two decades you have let me down. In fact, I had really given up on your movies altogether.

But somehow you managed to drag me back. Like many kids my age, I grew up loving the adventure and fantasy of Indiana Jones. His exotic travels, his clockwork like action, his witty delivery, and his ability to take a punch. So when another Indiana Jones movie was announced, I was kind of bummed. You see, I felt that Harrison Ford is just too old now, and I just didn't have the faith in you as a director to create a movie that could hold a candle to any other the other Jones movies. I also doubted George Lucas would be able to craft a story worthy of my attention.

But then, as time rolled on and production mounted, I started seeing glimmers of things to hope for. I was excited about the casting of Cate Blanchett and Ray Winstone, two of my favorites! Then we get the reveal that Shia Lebeouf was being cast as Indie's son, and that the amazing Karen Allen (the BEST Indy girl) was returning as Marian Ravenwood. All these additions had me pretty excited despite word that the movie would feature alien skulls and Area 51. I was really hooked though when the second trailer was released. This looked to be a fun ride.

How disappointed I am to find out that the 2 minute trailer was more exciting than the movie in its entirety. Again, I suppose it's not your fault. You're just tired. Tired to the point of being disabled. You're chronic fatigue tired. How else can you explain the lackluster script? I mean you must have been asleep during some days of directing because you managed to not coax anything out of Karen Allen. I love the lady, but giving her the broad direction of "act like Kate Capshaw when she's a little buzzed from gin fizzies on our weekends in Monterrey" just didn't work. And what was especially surprising was how little chemistry she shared with Harrison Ford or Shia. Things would have been about 10% better had you just said once, "Hey Karen Allen stop smiling like you have Down's Syndrome."

I really shouldn't pick on Karen. She probably did the best with what she had, but unfortunately that wasn't much. The truly disappointing thing for me was not her performance. No, what really makes me want to give you a goofball enema is the fact that this movie had boring boring action scenes. And this is from a franchise that YOU created that has basically set the gold standard in action. The truck chase in Raiders. The fight with the big Thugee in Temple. The Indy vs. Tank in Crusade. All breathtaking. Not a slack moment to make you realize you are watching something entirely preposterous. When I watched those, I felt every bruise on Indy's body. Every cut to his face... every blow. But Kingdom? Man there was nothing to stick to. Perhaps it was reliance on CGI in the jungle chase, but I really don't think so. I think you just decided to make it too outlandish. I can take Shia fencing with Blanchett, believe it or not, but then you have to embarass yourself and Shia by having him get hit in the nuts 493 times by exotic flora of the Amazon? I am pretty sure that came from Lucas, but your should have said NO. But more than the outlandishness, was the complete lack of gravity. Between John Hurt sitting there doing NOTHING (easiest paycheck ever, Mr. Hurt... kudoes), Ray Winstone basically doing nothing except whining, Marian smiling like she just got a good massage at that place in downtown Monterrey while she stares into an automatic machine gun, I never felt any jeopardy for any of the characters. I imagine even the discarded Russians bounding off rubbery plants and high fiving each other. Add to that Marian getting lost for 5 minutes of the action (Starbuck's stop!), and you just end up with something dreadful... something dreadful made even more dreadful by the Mummy like end of the whole debacle where a rubbery cgi Russian is carried away by over sized Siafu ants that somehow managed to start a colony on the wrong continent. Well I guess that didn't officially end it. Really we had to see Marian's escape plan, which made the liferaft bit at the start of Temple seem like Lawrence of fucking Arabia. Yeah I didn't mention the swinging. I figure at this point your embarassed enough as is.

So yeah, I am really irritated with you, Mr. Spielberg. And I haven't even gone into detail about Grampa Jones reciting his lines as if he was reading them off a cue card. Or Ray Winstone's one note character (were we supposed to give a shit when he betrayed Jones? Because it would have been nice to establish a little comradery between the two before that, but maybe they were really buddy buddy in the trunk and we just missed out on it because... oh yeah, the totally ridiculous opening "race" that George Lucas somehow shit out of his Dumbledore 50s nostalgic asshole instead of... you know building character). Or Cate Blanchett, who is quite excellent but totally toothless as the villain. Nah, I am not going to go into detail about crystal skulls and yet another botched Spielberg ending... because frankly I don't want to have to remember it.

In conclusion, I implore you, Stevie boy. Just stop.

The end.

Your Servant in Christ,




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Postby Brocktune on Thu May 22, 2008 9:59 pm

can we just give out the zonies now?
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Postby ironic name on Thu May 22, 2008 10:05 pm

shitty movie.
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Postby Seppuku on Thu May 22, 2008 10:32 pm

Brit Pop wrote:TLC is let down by certain moments of preposterousness... I've always believed that any film, no matter how far-fetched or science fictiony or fantasyy, is believable until something happens that ones subconcious recognizes as an impossibility.

Once that happens the film is lost!! Your brain stops getting involved!!

Raiders and Doom both had a fair amount of preposterousnesses within, but they generally didn't stray into the realm of the flat out impossible (feel free to cite examples of my folly).


In that case, you're going to hate Indy IV with a passion.

I was thinking of writing a few words here, but Burl's B0m H34DSh0T! review said everything I wanted to say already.
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Thu May 22, 2008 10:43 pm

Seppuku wrote:
Brit Pop wrote:TLC is let down by certain moments of preposterousness... I've always believed that any film, no matter how far-fetched or science fictiony or fantasyy, is believable until something happens that ones subconcious recognizes as an impossibility.

Once that happens the film is lost!! Your brain stops getting involved!!

Raiders and Doom both had a fair amount of preposterousnesses within, but they generally didn't stray into the realm of the flat out impossible (feel free to cite examples of my folly).


In that case, you're going to hate Indy IV with a passion.

I was thinking of writing a few words here, but Burl's B0m H34DSh0T! review said everything I wanted to say already.


Yeah the first scene displays a gross amount of preposterousness, although I thought it was going to be a clever set up: Indy walks around warehouse using Russian ammunition to find the treasure, and then when they least expect he's all, "LOL SUCKERS I YOU DON'T HAVE ANYMORE AMMOMG". But no... they had plenty of ammo.
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Postby Keepcoolbutcare on Thu May 22, 2008 10:58 pm

Brocktune wrote:can we just give out the zonies now?


co-sign.

Burl, you can plunder my booty anytime you want.

I'll even wash for you...
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Thu May 22, 2008 11:22 pm

Yeah you guys said that last year and I wasn't even nominated.
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Postby RogueScribner on Fri May 23, 2008 12:15 am

Wow, even the positive reviews in here give me pause, but burl's review has done a good job of scaring me away from this movie.
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Postby travis-dane on Fri May 23, 2008 3:45 am

Nobody has given this movie a 9 or 10 in the Poll....
A 8 is max for a INDY movie.....wow!
Looks like I made the right choice by waiting on the rental DVD.
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Postby RogueScribner on Fri May 23, 2008 3:55 am

The reviews average out to 5.72 (if my math is correct), which is a hair above "meh."
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Postby Hermanator X on Fri May 23, 2008 4:08 am

I had to give it a 7. It was merely "OK" but nothing special. It doesnt take itself seriously, and its a bit of an absurd romp, but it spells it out early in the movie that that's how its going to be.
I wasnt really disappointed, and laughed at the over the top'ness of it all.
It was good seeing Mr. Ford with a bit of swagger again, but that was offset with some of the mawkishness on display too.
Cant see me rushing out to watch it again, but I dont regret seeing it at all.

Its still leaps and bounds better than the dirge that is national treasure, which was my only fear. I dont think I could have faced liking an Indy movie less than one of those.
...and so forth.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri May 23, 2008 4:15 am

Christ sakes, you're ZONERS. You MAY enjoy it in all its pulp glory, it's an Indy Lucas/Spielberg collaboration and you're NOT going to see it based off of a couple of bad reviews on this site? What happened to just being excited and geeking out and going to see it anyway? Five pounds, or five dollars, on the big screen?
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Postby Hermanator X on Fri May 23, 2008 4:21 am

Too right!!
Cost me the equivalent of £9 or $18 too.
Damn expensive country.

You have to keep up with the Jones'es!!
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri May 23, 2008 5:02 am

I kinda liked Verns take on the whole Monkeys thing -

as for the Tarzan scene
by Vern May 22nd, 2008
05:06:06 PM
Yes, that was clearly the most ridiculous part of the movie, and I can understand hating that. But let's not pretend there wasn't the Nazi monkey saying "Uh oh" in RAIDERS, Short Round beating up a bunch of adults in TEMPLE OF DOOM, Willie screaming at ten different animals in a row, the River Phoenix scene or Sean Connery's performance in LAST CRUSADE, etc. That scene was taking the goofiness that has always been there a little bit further. I thought it was too far but then the payoff of Cate Blanchett trying to drive while covered in monkeys made me forgive it.

I guess what I'm saying is the Tarzan scene is easier to swallow in an Indiana Jones movie, where it's not THAT far off from what they've already been doing, than it would be in BATMAN BEGINS or something. Or MUNICH.


Wish the guy would visit The Zone if he really wants to actually talk movies, not the TB's.
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Postby Pacino86845 on Fri May 23, 2008 5:10 am

I really liked this film... I haven't seen the originals for a few years now, but this new Indy adventure FELT right, and it was pretty entertaining. Did someone liken this film to Spidey 3? Well I liked Spidey 3, and in this case Kingdom of Crystal Skull fits tonally with its predecessors, unlike Spidey 3.

And what about the thrill of watching Indy on the big screen again, the first time since I was nine years old? Maybe nostalgia took over, but it works and it was exciting... Ford was in top form, Shia was a welcome addition, and Cate was great.

The script was kinda r-tarded, but the action was good and didn't take itself seriously.
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Postby Seppuku on Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am

AtomicHyperbole wrote:Wish the guy would visit The Zone if he really wants to actually talk movies, not the TB's.


He should start his own website... :wink:
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...and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (spoilers!)

Postby bastard_robo on Fri May 23, 2008 5:27 am

Just got back....


I really, really enjoyed this film.

Seriously. Enjoyed it a lot.

Perfect. No, GOD NO. It sits in the shallow end of the pool of perfect.

But is it good? Yes. Yes it is.


When the film started and Indy was pulled out of the trunk.. It took me a few minutes to adjust.

This is Indy past his Prime. His good years are gone, and the world is now far different place. He dosnt have that advantage of being young and wondrous. instead, he's beaten up and laid out. But he keeps on ticking..

And you know why? Because its the only thing he knows how to do.

Once the mayhem started in the warehouse, everything felt right again.

The fridge! Man what a shot!

Raiders, TOD, and TLC all fit their time and place. Before WW2, before things became more complicated.

This adventure takes place at the beginning of the ATOMIC AGE. When people could care less about ruins and exploring the past. They looked towards the future! To space.

Thats why that end shot worked for me.

And the VERY LAST SHOT.. sealed the deal.

If this is really the last INDY film.. then for me, it went out the way it should.


I do have 3 complaints about the film though.

1) No real opening sequence. All of the other films had an opening like the Bond films.. this one kinda just jumps in and starts swimming.

2) The end credits kinda bugged me, but thats just nit picking

3) The greatest sin of all.. This film is severely lacking in Sallah

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I'm really glad that this movie was made. I'm really happy that I managed to see it on opening day.

I'm glad that there is a new Indy adventure at the movies.


and if they choose to spin off into a new series of adventures with Mutt, I'll gladly fork over my hard earned dollars for it.
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri May 23, 2008 5:30 am

Pacino86845 wrote:I really liked this film... I haven't seen the originals for a few years now, but this new Indy adventure FELT right, and it was pretty entertaining. Did someone liken this film to Spidey 3? Well I liked Spidey 3, and in this case Kingdom of Crystal Skull fits tonally with its predecessors, unlike Spidey 3.

And what about the thrill of watching Indy on the big screen again, the first time since I was nine years old? Maybe nostalgia took over, but it works and it was exciting... Ford was in top form, Shia was a welcome addition, and Cate was great.

The script was kinda r-tarded, but the action was good and didn't take itself seriously.


Pacino LIKED A MOVIE?!?! :twisted:

You can't really take this film seriously as you say, it's just a balls-out adventure movie. Nothing will be as textural as Raiders, sadly, but that's the grudging acceptance you need to deal with in most sequels. I would never compare this to the utter disaster of Spidey 3, though. That film was as if someone had hit Rosanne Barr Arnold with a monster truck bad.
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Re: ...and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (spoilers!)

Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri May 23, 2008 5:32 am

bastard_robo wrote:Just got back....


I really, really enjoyed this film.

Seriously. Enjoyed it a lot.

Perfect. No, GOD NO. It sits in the shallow end of the pool of perfect.

But is it good? Yes. Yes it is.


When the film started and Indy was pulled out of the trunk.. It took me a few minutes to adjust.

This is Indy past his Prime. His good years are gone, and the world is now far different place. He dosnt have that advantage of being young and wondrous. instead, he's beaten up and laid out. But he keeps on ticking..

And you know why? Because its the only thing he knows how to do.

Once the mayhem started in the warehouse, everything felt right again.

The fridge! Man what a shot!

Raiders, TOD, and TLC all fit their time and place. Before WW2, before things became more complicated.

This adventure takes place at the beginning of the ATOMIC AGE. When people could care less about ruins and exploring the past. They looked towards the future! To space.

Thats why that end shot worked for me.

And the VERY LAST SHOT.. sealed the deal.

If this is really the last INDY film.. then for me, it went out the way it should.


I do have 3 complaints about the film though.

1) No real opening sequence. All of the other films had an opening like the Bond films.. this one kinda just jumps in and starts swimming.

2) The end credits kinda bugged me, but thats just nit picking

3) The greatest sin of all.. This film is severely lacking in Sallah

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I'm really glad that this movie was made. I'm really happy that I managed to see it on opening day.

I'm glad that there is a new Indy adventure at the movies.


and if they choose to spin off into a new series of adventures with Mutt, I'll gladly fork over my hard earned dollars for it.


HIGHLIGHTED. Better fuckin' believe it, boy-eeee!

Yeah, Mutt's awesome. You dug the Alien though? I wanted to bitchslap the designer back into the 1950's. Still better than an old man in a cave, I guess.
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Re: ...and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (spoilers!)

Postby bastard_robo on Fri May 23, 2008 5:38 am

AtomicHyperbole wrote:[quote="bastard_robo" ]Just got back....


I really, really enjoyed this film.

Seriously. Enjoyed it a lot.

Perfect. No, GOD NO. It sits in the shallow end of the pool of perfect.

But is it good? Yes. Yes it is.


When the film started and Indy was pulled out of the trunk.. It took me a few minutes to adjust.

This is Indy past his Prime. His good years are gone, and the world is now far different place. He dosnt have that advantage of being young and wondrous. instead, he's beaten up and laid out. But he keeps on ticking..

And you know why? Because its the only thing he knows how to do.

Once the mayhem started in the warehouse, everything felt right again.

The fridge! Man what a shot!

Raiders, TOD, and TLC all fit their time and place. Before WW2, before things became more complicated.

This adventure takes place at the beginning of the ATOMIC AGE. When people could care less about ruins and exploring the past. They looked towards the future! To space.

Thats why that end shot worked for me.

And the VERY LAST SHOT.. sealed the deal.

If this is really the last INDY film.. then for me, it went out the way it should.


I do have 3 complaints about the film though.

1) No real opening sequence. All of the other films had an opening like the Bond films.. this one kinda just jumps in and starts swimming.

2) The end credits kinda bugged me, but thats just nit picking

3) The greatest sin of all.. This film is severely lacking in Sallah

Image



I'm really glad that this movie was made. I'm really happy that I managed to see it on opening day.

I'm glad that there is a new Indy adventure at the movies.


and if they choose to spin off into a new series of adventures with Mutt, I'll gladly fork over my hard earned dollars for it.


HIGHLIGHTED. Better fuckin' believe it, boy-eeee!

Yeah, Mutt's awesome. You dug the Alien though? I wanted to bitchslap the designer back into the 1950's. Still better than an old man in a cave, I guess.[/quote]

Actually, Yeah. I really dug the Alien. The fact that they kinda werent Aliens made things a little better, but at the same time not. Though it did look like RA at the end of STARGATE though. But that ship.. that sold me on every thing. Thats an epic Spielberg shot!
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri May 23, 2008 5:45 am

Well, I guess it's TEH POWAR that does it in Indy films. I mean, the macguffin's in the previous ones were a box, a stone and a cup. Thinking on it, that shot at the end did make up for any misgiving I had for that SHITTY FUCKING OVERUSED PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT LAZY DESIGN MISSION TO MARS SHIT. Kinda. :-P
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...and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (spoilers!)

Postby bastard_robo on Fri May 23, 2008 5:47 am

Angry Much?
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Postby AtomicHyperbole on Fri May 23, 2008 5:50 am

Only when it comes to Mission To Mars.
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Postby Seppuku on Fri May 23, 2008 5:59 am

I will say this, every frame with a motorcycle in it was gold! I think I might have preferred this movie if it had a few more '50sisms, even. There was more room to mine after they referenced McCarthy, The Wild One, Them and had the whole Roswell subplot. The American Graffiti-style game of chicken and the early scenes with Shia and Ford in the diner were probably my favourite parts of the whole movie.

AtomicHyperbole wrote:Christ sakes, you're ZONERS. You MAY enjoy it in all its pulp glory, it's an Indy Lucas/Spielberg collaboration and you're NOT going to see it based off of a couple of bad reviews on this site? What happened to just being excited and geeking out and going to see it anyway? Five pounds, or five dollars, on the big screen?


Just so you know, I was totally prepared to adore this movie! And not in a so-hyped-you-can't-help-but-be-disappointed way, either. I even voted it my most anticipated movie of the year! But I just can't see what Mori's referring to when he talks about the scenes imbued with that old Spielberg magic. To quote Dino quoting the Black Eyed Peas, where is the love, eh?

I think I'll watch the originals again over the next couple of days and give the movie another chance. Lawd knows there are a million day-to-day variables that can make me love or hate a movie when I see it in the cinema. I could have just been underslept, distracted by the giants sitting in front of me, or just not in the right mood.
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Postby dimnix on Fri May 23, 2008 7:26 am

This is a great Indiana Jones movie.

And retro flying saucers rule.
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Postby LeFlambeur on Fri May 23, 2008 4:14 pm

Just got back from watching this. When Indy was sliding on the back of Shia's bike I remember thinking, "this is the first great movie of this year". By the end of things I thought "this is a really good movie". Spielberg’s direction is as sharp as ever, and looks twice as effortless. Spielberg handles here exhilaration like Hitchcock handled suspense. The movie is a joy to watch, and in the increasingly crowded and banal summer movie film climate, it’s great to see Spielberg and Ford swagger out and show these kids how blockbuster filmmaking is done.

The first half is terrific, nearly at Raiders level quality. Returning to that vast American tomb of beurocratically marginalized crates probably containing everything from the Ark of the Covenant to a sled that may or may not explain everything, Ol’ Dr. Jones is kidnapped to fish out a dead alien corpse for a jump suited Ukrainian Soviet bitch named Irina Spalko. It’s clear from the difference in age, acrimonious dialogue and Blancetts cold, asexual demeanor that this one won’t turn into a love interest. Before all that though, the movie starts out in the American desert, Last Crusade style. But this one isn't populated with late cowboys and Boy Scouts, but a more boisterous modern youth. Spielberg is smart enough to recognize where Indy would be in a post-WWII America. Like many of his generation they learned to view international politics through the lens of their experiences in WWII, and to view culture through their struggle with their fathers, just like every other generation. “I like Ikeâ€
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Postby burlivesleftnut on Fri May 23, 2008 10:09 pm

After reading that review, which is really well written, it made me realize I would like to see the adventures of Dr. Jones in WW2. I am disappointed that this movie comes at a time when Ford can't even fake being a younger dude anymore because a series of movies where Indy is playing Captain fucking America sounds about as awesome as it gets. Especially with sexed up Mac at his side.

On a side note, did Indy seemed totally horrified by the kiss from Marian at the end of the movie, or is that how old people do it? It was like a FROWN KISS. Like, "I hope she doesn't expect more than this..."
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Postby Worst Part's Almost Over on Fri May 23, 2008 10:14 pm

My chance to see the film passed by tonight due to family emergency. Now seeing it Sunday. But Empire's reviews are usually pretty on-the-money, and they said one thing in theirs that needs repeating for all those who would nitpick the film:

"Think of Indy as an escape, which is all he was ever meant to be, and all he was ever really meant to help us do."

Can't wait to see this, I will make sure to write my review as soon as I get back from the screening.
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Postby Seppuku on Fri May 23, 2008 10:21 pm

Does anyone think that the line John Hurt utters during the wedding scene at the end, "How much of human life is lost in waiting?" was Spielberg's sly dig at the fans for wasting so much of their lives getting so militantly nostalgic about these old, very fun and very silly movies to begin with?
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...and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (spoilers!)

Postby bastard_robo on Fri May 23, 2008 11:03 pm

Seppuku wrote:Does anyone think that the line John Hurt utters during the wedding scene at the end, "How much of human life is lost in waiting?" was Spielberg's sly dig at the fans for wasting so much of their lives getting so militantly nostalgic about these old, very fun and very silly movies to begin with?


I thought the same!
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