Real Time With Bill Maher

[Zarles]

Jon seemed like he was only there for the paycheck, and pretty annoyed with Bill, too. The 'Say Anything' crack did it, I think.

[cmh10]

bill is so funny
and is nearly always right

[Maui]

bill is so funny
and is nearly always right

Welcome to the Zone!

[TheBaxter]

To play devil's advocate without the private contractors the military would reinstate the draft if just to handle boring logistics like laundry service that's now handled privately. Otherwise they would have nowhere near the personnel necessary. One of the modern prices of an all volunteer service. That said I definitely am no fan of the private armies of mercs like Blackwater but they don't comprise the majority of private contractors over there anyway.

which is why the gov't can get away with continuing this war, because if they tried to reinstate the draft with the war as unpopular as it is, there'd be a revolution. so that's one more reason why the private contractors are a bad thing: they allow the gov't to keep the war going even longer.

another reason: they cost more. a private contractor doing the laundry, driving the supply trucks, cooking the meals, etc etc costs the govt (and thus, the taxpayers) a ton more money than it would cost if enlisted soldiers were doing those things, like they used to do.

and finally... all those soldiers will come home and not know how to do their own laundry or cook their own meals, like soldiers of previous generations learned. who's going to make up for the homemaking deficit when the soldiers return? the answer: their mommies.

To play contrarian I don't think John was all that comfortable looking or impressive though perhaps on the panel he would be better.

he looked like he was expecting to be attacked every time he said something bad about the war. maybe he got his bills mixed up and thought he was on the o'reilly factor.

[minstrel]

To play devil's advocate without the private contractors the military would reinstate the draft if just to handle boring logistics like laundry service that's now handled privately. Otherwise they would have nowhere near the personnel necessary. One of the modern prices of an all volunteer service.

Exactly. And if the draft had been reinstated, Bush would have been impeached and we'd be out of Iraq by now. And we wouldn't be ten trillion dollars in debt. Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. and so on.

[Chairman Kaga]

I don't think the draft being reinstated would have been a tipping point for impeachment, since it would have been necessary for Afghanistan without the contractors, and no one immediately after 9-11 would have been calling for an impeachment...But I hear what you're saying. The fact that the citizenry hasn't had to give up much for the war effort definitely keeps them complacent.

[minstrel]

Reinstating the draft, with Bush's approval ratings as low as they have been, would have destroyed his administration. The draft is a huge thing, the war is unpopular, and too many people remember Vietnam. It's hard to imagine Bush's adminstration surviving a draft reinstatement, and it's hard to imaging a Republican being elected President afterward, for a long, long time.

[Chairman Kaga]

Yeah but his ratings weren't low in sep-oct 2001 where if they didn't already have the private contractors they would have needed to reinstate the draft. That's the point. Nobody thinks they are suddenly going to stop using contractors now and reinstate the draft in 2008.

[TheBaxter]

i don't buy that. the action that was launched in afghanistan immediately after 9/11 did not depend on a substantial amount of contractors. it was an air offensive at first, followed by a relatively small number of ground troops. there wasn't a significant contractor presence in afghanistan til much later, after the taliban had already been ousted. the draft wouldn't have been put into effect right away. just like in vietnam, it took several years of building up before they reached the point where they needed to start drafting people. it wasn't until they escalated to the hundreds of thousands of soldiers in vietnam that they began to draft in significant numbers. the same would have been true of afghanistan and iraq. the US has engaged in far larger actions than the initial invasions of afghanistan and iraq... for example, the first iraq war in 1991. that one used a lot more forces than the 2003 invasion, and very few contractors, and they didn't need a draft for that one.

given rumsfeld's determination to use as few forces as possible, and the administration's idiotic expectations for how easy it would be to secure the country after toppling saddam, it would've been silly for them to start a draft that early. they never would have thought it necessary. remember, back in 2003, they honestly expected they'd be able to start drawing down forces starting that summer. so the soonest a draft would have been put in place would have been sometime during summer of 2003, when it first became clear that iraq wasn't going to be such a cakewalk after all. and by then, i think a draft would have made both the public and the media take a much harder look at the war, and public opinion would have turned against the war a lot quicker. these guys aren't stupid; they know the draft was a big part of what turned public opinion against the vietnam war, and by using contractors, they could avoid the draft and use only the volunteer forces (and the national guard, and the guys they got through the backdoor stop-loss draft), even if they had to stretch them beyond their reasonable capacity. because they knew that once people's kids were being forced over there against their will and coming back in body bags, they'd be forced to end the war a hell of a lot sooner.

[Fievel]

Reinstating the draft, with Bush's approval ratings as low as they have been, would have destroyed this country.

[Chairman Kaga]

there wasn't a significant contractor presence in afghanistan til much later

My point was that the military has relied upon private contractors since before the first Gulf War as a means of focusing on using military personnel for actual military functions instead of things like laundry, the mail, housing construction etc. Much of this is the direct result of shrinking the military following the end of the Cold War. Without said contractors the military would need to perform these functions and would thus need more bodies to do so. In that case the draft would be necessary right from the beginning of the campaign in Afghanistan (let alone the first Gulf War) to support the infrastructure of the armed forces. They are already thin as it is what with utilizing the national guard to bolster troop numbers. Without the contractors or the draft anything larger than Grenada wouldn't be feasible.

[TheBaxter]

there wasn't a significant contractor presence in afghanistan til much later

My point was that the military has relied upon private contractors since before the first Gulf War as a means of focusing on using military personnel for actual military functions instead of things like laundry, the mail, housing construction etc. Much of this is the direct result of shrinking the military following the end of the Cold War. Without said contractors the military would need to perform these functions and would thus need more bodies to do so. In that case the draft would be necessary right from the beginning of the campaign in Afghanistan (let alone the first Gulf War) to support the infrastructure of the armed forces. They are already thin as it is what with utilizing the national guard to bolster troop numbers. Without the contractors or the draft anything larger than Grenada wouldn't be feasible.

if you're only counting contractors who perform specific military functions, in the gulf war, those contractors made up about 10 percent of the forces involved. that percentage has grown since, i don't know what the exact percentage is now; maybe 15 or 20%? the number of total contractors in iraq is very close to equal to the number of troops, but the majority of those are doing reconstruction work or security for gov't officials, private contractors, etc. -- only a relatively small number of all the contractors in iraq are doing direct military-related tasks. the contractors doing reconstruction, security, etc. weren't part of the initial actions in afghanistan or iraq. the military wouldn't need a draft to replace those military-specific contractors with their own troops, there aren't that many of them in total numbers. and the contractors who are there working on non-military activities are doing things the military wouldn't be doing anyway, so there wouldn't be a draft for those either (although, the state department nearly had to force their diplomatic corps to go to iraq when they couldn't get enough volunteers, so you could say that's a kind of draft if you wanted to).

the number of troops that invaded afghanistan and the 2nd iraq invasion were much smaller than the first gulf war force. without contractors, they would have had to deploy more forces initially, and possibly pull more forces from other areas of the world, but they wouldn't have needed a draft. they were able to find enough troops for the surge (which is a larger number than the number of military-specific contractors) without a draft, so i think you're off-base if you believe they couldn't have mustered that many troops to invade iraq and afghanistan from the beginning, without contractors. they have a lot of other ways to get soldiers over there without resorting to a draft: stop-loss, deploying the national guard, extending tours from 12 months to 18, and all the other things they've done to bleed the army dry.

[Maui]

John McCains Virtual Fireplace? tee hee hee

[Fievel]

I actually missed last week's episode.
This week's was okay. Cornell West is always interesting. It's just too bad they couldn't have Chris Matthews on as a panelist, but it was still good to see him.

Next week should be good - Garry Shandling, Phil Donahue, and Arianna Huffington.

[Maui]

I actually missed last week's episode.
This week's was okay. Cornell West is always interesting. It's just too bad they couldn't have Chris Matthews on as a panelist, but it was still good to see him.

Next week should be good - Garry Shandling, Phil Donahue, and Arianna Huffington.

He is hilarious!!!!! Looking forward to seeing him again on the panel.

You ever seen Tracy Ullman make fun of Huffington? hahah

[Fievel]

You ever seen Tracy Ullman make fun of Huffington? hahah

Ha... no, but I imagine it's good.
I'd love to see old-school Barbara Walters interview/debate Huffington.

[Maui]

Last Maher show I saw had Jason Alexander on it. I think I'm a few episodes behind.

[Chairman Kaga]

Last Maher show I saw had Jason Alexander on it. I think I'm a few episodes behind.

I think that was last week.

[Maui]

Last Maher show I saw had Jason Alexander on it. I think I'm a few episodes behind.

I think that was last week.

Not so bad then. Many repeats throughout the week to get caught up on.

[minstrel]

Once again, Bill found a way to get his "Don't eat meat" message in, as if that was the way to salvation.

You are what you eat, or so they say. And I'm mostly meat. Don't know what I can do about that. I'm not sure I want to be a vegetable, no matter how much I may resemble one from time to time.

[Chairman Kaga]

Just got back from seeing Bill Live. Good stuff.

[Zarles]

Who was on the panel? Did Bill have to throw you out?

[Chairman Kaga]

Who was on the panel? Did Bill have to throw you out?

Just Bill on tour not the show. I was hoping some truthers might start to try an argument with him while he was doing his show but no such luck.

[Maui]

Just got back from seeing Bill Live. Good stuff.

Very cool Kaga! I'd like to catch Maher live some day. I know Fievel has too.

[Fievel]

Yeah, I saw him just a couple of days after the 2004 Elections.... perfect timing.
I definitely want to see him again.

[Peven]

I actually missed last week's episode.
This week's was okay. Cornell West is always interesting. It's just too bad they couldn't have Chris Matthews on as a panelist, but it was still good to see him.

Next week should be good - Garry Shandling, Phil Donahue, and Arianna Huffington.

that episode was disappointing. Shandling, who can be a very funny guy, stuttered and rambled through half the show just taking up time and killing any continuity of conversation. dude needs to get some better meds. Arianna got her two cents in, as usual, when she wasn't being interrupted by Shandling, and meanwhile Phil was sitting over to the side barely getting a word in edgewise, and he is the guy who i would want to hear the most from. sure enough, even though he said the least, what he had to say was the best stuff of the panel.

[Maui]

I actually missed last week's episode.
This week's was okay. Cornell West is always interesting. It's just too bad they couldn't have Chris Matthews on as a panelist, but it was still good to see him.

Next week should be good - Garry Shandling, Phil Donahue, and Arianna Huffington.

that episode was disappointing. Shandling, who can be a very funny guy, stuttered and rambled through half the show just taking up time and killing any continuity of conversation. dude needs to get some better meds. Arianna got her two cents in, as usual, when she wasn't being interrupted by Shandling, and meanwhile Phil was sitting over to the side barely getting a word in edgewise, and he is the guy who i would want to hear the most from. sure enough, even though he said the least, what he had to say was the best stuff of the panel.

Oh, I missed this! Drats. I'll have to catch a repeat.

[Maui]

Well this is movie news, but it's Bill Maher, so not sure where the hell to put this - SO - I'm gonna put it here!

Religulous is a documentary directed by Larry Charles and starring American comedian Bill Maher, host of Real Time With Bill Maher on HBO. According to Maher, the title of the film is a portmanteau derived from the words "religion" and "ridiculous," implying the satirical nature of the documentary that is meant to mock the concept of religion and the problems it brings about.[1]

Fievel, did you know about this documentary? I didn't. I'm there!

[Fievel]

Well this is movie news, but it's Bill Maher, so not sure where the hell to put this - SO - I'm gonna put it here!

Religulous is a documentary directed by Larry Charles and starring American comedian Bill Maher, host of Real Time With Bill Maher on HBO. According to Maher, the title of the film is a portmanteau derived from the words "religion" and "ridiculous," implying the satirical nature of the documentary that is meant to mock the concept of religion and the problems it brings about.[1]

Fievel, did you know about this documentary? I didn't. I'm there!

Yeah, I knew about this. It's been in the works for a bit.
The trailer was posted in the trailer thread earlier.

TRAILER

[Fievel]

Bill's back tomorrow night!!!!

[The Vicar]

Well this is movie news, but it's Bill Maher, so not sure where the hell to put this - SO - I'm gonna put it here!

Religulous is a documentary directed by Larry Charles and starring American comedian Bill Maher, host of Real Time With Bill Maher on HBO. According to Maher, the title of the film is a portmanteau derived from the words "religion" and "ridiculous," implying the satirical nature of the documentary that is meant to mock the concept of religion and the problems it brings about.[1]

Fievel, did you know about this documentary? I didn't. I'm there!

Yeah, I knew about this. It's been in the works for a bit.
The trailer was posted in the trailer thread earlier.

TRAILER

Must check out.

[Fievel]

Wow.
From the past few months alone Maher's show would be awesome tonight in terms of content.

But add in Obama's speech last night (I still have a boner from that) and it's going to be fucking awesome.

Throw in McCain's VP choice and it's going to be ridiculously awesome.

Welcome back, Bill.
You've been sorely missed.

[Chris a.k.a StuntMike]

Nice, Matt Taibbi is on tonites episode. The guy cracks me up.

[Fievel]

Nice, Matt Taibbi is on tonites episode. The guy cracks me up.

Full lineup:

Gov. Jon Corzine (D-NJ)
Gov. Tim Kaine (D-VA)
TV host Craig Ferguson
journalist Michel Martin
Real Time Correspondent Matt Taibbi


New American Citizen Craig Ferguson could be downright hilarious.

Taibbi has the tact of a drunken frat boy.
I hope they keep alternating Real Time Correspondents like they did in the winter/spring.

[Chairman Kaga]

I wonder if he will mention Carlin's death considering Carlin was set to appear before the writer's strike bumped him last season and I can only assume he was probably a big influence on Bill.

[Retardo_Montalban]

Wow, Craig Ferguson barely said anything at all. I think it may have been due to a mixture of being out of his depth and being blatantly ignored when he tried to take the conversation somewhere interesting. I was interested in hearing about the Obama movie, or more about his perceived celebrity, but Maher quickly steered the conversation back to masturbating Obama and the same Obama gushing that was in half his shows in the previous season. the other half being about how the war in Iraq is bullshit and the surge didn't even work, which by the way was also covered in this episode. The only new discussion was Maher's coverage of Alaska' Gov' Palin. The Matt Taibi stuff was interesting as well. It's a shame he's such a douche that he couldn't get anyone of any importance to talk about them corporate parties. The only place he was able to get access was the free speech zone. Does he seriously not know one person who could talk about or show him a bit on these parties more so that a line about the location and who's hosting it?


This show is a broken record already. There's more interesting shit happening in Canada right now. Our minority government has lasted 3 times as long as the average of minority governments and our crazy Prime minister could call an election at any time now and the official opposition Liberal party is broke.

[Fievel]

"The Maverick And The MILF" - funniest line of the whole episode.

I thought his opening monologue was hilarious. The Governor from Virginia was great, too (even though he literally quoted Obama's speech in some responses).
The New Rules from other people were mostly funny.
But then it just went downhill.

Dan what's-his-name is on next week (Real Time Reporter). He's usually good.
I forgot who else was on.

Ferguson should have been better - and should have said more.

[minstrel]

Ferguson didn't seem to be familiar with the program. I don't think he really understood his role. He is supposed to be funny while staying on-topic. That's a tough thing to do - Dana Carvey didn't get it, but Gary Shandling did. I'd like to see Shandling on again.

Ferguson's lines about getting all these animals out of here, etc., just distracted everyone from the discussion.

[Fievel]

Throw Chris Rock into the "someone who just didn't get it" category.
When he was on, pretty much the only thing he said (and repeated and repeated) was "..and why is gas so expensive?!?".
I'm thinking something happened backstage before the show for him to be such a shitty guest.

When Ferguson brought his animal joke back after like 20 minutes, I could have sworn I heard Crickets in the audience.

[Retardo_Montalban]

The discussion always goes off topic, the only thing is it always goes to the same off topic sound bytes. If Ferguson decided to hit Iraq or how great Obama is, then Maher would have totally jumped off topic with him. Instead Ferguson made some jokes about political celebrity and he was ignored. I don't think any of the color commentary guests are ever really on topic. When Shandling was on, all he did was make homo erotic jokes about himself and Bill Maher.

Ferguson made a hilarious quip about Scottish politics being about stabbing and he was pretty much ignored. Ferguson was also pretty much ignored when he brought up how sexist the panel's views towards women actually are. I was hoping for Maher to be a little fresher after his hiatus.

[minstrel]

Ferguson made a hilarious quip about Scottish politics being about stabbing and he was pretty much ignored.

That's right. I was expecting Maher to follow with a Macbeth reference, but it didn't happen. I wanted it to, though.

Ferguson was also pretty much ignored when he brought up how sexist the panel's views towards women actually are. I was hoping for Maher to be a little fresher after his hiatus.

Maher seems to know exactly what his audience wants, and he delivers. Liberal comedy delivered with a large dollop of I'm-smarter-than-you smugness. I think he'd get complaints if he was too fresh ...

[BuckyO'harre]

Should have had Michael Caine in space for a guest.


"Alaska?
I shagged a bird there once.
Had a little ginger mustache, as I recall.
Husband was one of them eskimos.
Tried to sick his sled dogs on me, the brute."

[BuckyO'harre]

Hm.

Is that a random "Hm" or a confused "Hm"?


If it's the latter, see this.

Or this with 100% more Aquaman.

[Fievel]

Tonight's guests:
Actress Kerry Washington
Fmr. Lt. Gov. Michael Steele (R-MD)
Correspondent Dan Savage
Journalist Jeffrey Toobin
Fmr. White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan

Good to see someone from the "other side" on there tonight.
McClellan could be good, but I have a feeling he's just going to be an interview, not a panelist.

[minstrel]

Tonight's guests:
Actress Kerry Washington
Fmr. Lt. Gov. Michael Steele (R-MD)
Correspondent Dan Savage
Journalist Jeffrey Toobin
Fmr. White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan

Good to see someone from the "other side" on there tonight.
McClellan could be good, but I have a feeling he's just going to be an interview, not a panelist.

McClellan was hardly there! He was a panelist, but he hardly opened his mouth. I was very impressed with Kerry Washington - she did damn well against Michael Steele. The two of them pretty much monopolized the show - even Bill could hardly get a word in!

[Fievel]

Very, very impressed with Kerry Washington.
McLellan was okay, but seemed to be adhering to some sort of self-imposed rule on what to say and when to say it.

Too much of the following happened - multiple people arguing at the same time and never letting up.
Usually someone will give in and shut up to let the other person finish, but that never happened.

Maher was less talkative than normal - which is good. The panel really did take off with the discussions.
Good episode.

[Evil Hobbit]

Oiiiiiiil oiiiiiiiiil!! Lots of multichattering indeed. Washington kept going on and on, and so firm and grounded in her facts. And Steele was so great trying to reason with the democratic crowd, even attacking Bill! Great stuff? Yep yep, ok...

[Peven]

Maher still doesn't seem to have a real feel for what is going on and will cut off discussion at times right when some good points are being made. for a guy who runs a show like that he is a very poor listener, doesn't think quick on his feet to unexpected points brought up, and is much more comfortable when he can stick to the queue cards during a monologue

[Evil Hobbit]

Haha, yeah, I love that dumbstruck expression on his face when he is confronted with idea's or suggestions countering his statements -- and then he usually shrugs and waves it away ... priceless stuff.

[Fievel]

Maher still doesn't seem to have a real feel for what is going on and will cut off discussion at times right when some good points are being made. for a guy who runs a show like that he is a very poor listener, doesn't think quick on his feet to unexpected points brought up, and is much more comfortable when he can stick to the queue cards during a monologue

His usual tactic during this is to say his point again, ONLY MUCH LOUDER. Which is ironically the same as Bill O'Reilly.
Thankfully, he didn't do that this past episode.
I think he was just as dumbstruck as the rest of us as to how good Washington was on the show.

Dan Savage is my favorite "Real Time Correspondent" so it was good to see him on there again. The guy is just funny.
PJ O'Rourke needs to come back.