The Zone

by **Seppuku** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:32 am

You don't mind if I expand/retitle this thread to something like, "What Aspect Ratio do you Prefer?", do ya? It's probably best to be as specific as possible about a thread's contents in the title, rather than teasing us like an exotic dancer! That way when 99.99999998% of the internet's erased in the great Online Data Meltdown of 2012, leaving only a handful of surviving websites, of which the Zone is one, future archaeologists can easily find out how we watched our movies.

by **Mark Hinnegan** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:02 am

No. That's a better title, actually.

But wouldn't it be 'Viewing Ratio'? Since I prefer 2.35:1 or 2.40:1, but this poll is 1.33 or 1.37:1 versus anything else.

From what I have seen in my life, I have seen..

1.33:1 Pan/Scan , Full Frame
1.37:1 Academy Ratio
1.75:1 Some 'soft matte' films.
1.78:1 Fits perfectly in a 16x9 frame.
2.00:1 Criterion does this a lot. It's also the new Apocalypse Now ratio.
2.20:1 70mm films have this a lot. 2001 for example.
2.35:1 Very nice ratio. My personal favorite.
2.39:1 Kinda the same as..
2.40:1 This one, but these always seem to be associated with Super 35 and look slick.
2.76:1 Ben-Hur...

by **Seppuku** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:09 am

Mark Hinnegan wrote:No. That's a better title, actually.

But wouldn't it be 'Viewing Ratio'? Since I prefer 2.35:1 or 2.40:1, but this poll is 1.33 or 1.37:1 versus anything else.

I don't know if we have an official Aspect Ratio thread yet- and this'd encompass all four of them.

It's your thread though, so it's your call. If you want any of the poll options changed, just give me the word and it's done!

by **Mark Hinnegan** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:15 am

Okay. I have spoken with the inner Mark.

I'll make the title;

Poll: Widescreen vs. Fullscreen

And the people did feast upon the lamb... and... whoa, got ahead of myself there. One.... two.... five!

by **The Vicar** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:40 am

Fullscreen films should be burned and their ashes scattered in a septic tank.
Widescreen shows you the film as it was intended to be seen, as it appeared in the theatre.
I still can't believe some folks prefer to see a truncated version of a film,
with key elements the directors may have included possibly excised.

Case in point: there's a scene in John Carpenter's The Thing
where MacReady is in a standoff with his former friends,
and in the fullscreen version you just see Kurt Russell and some of the cast
standing around him, looking for an opening.
IN the widescreen version, with proper aspect ratio, you can see someone's hand,
barely in frame on the left, palming a surgical knife.

It's an important detail, with it's implied menace, that does not exist in the mutilated version of the film.

Fullscreen is an abomination.

by **Mark Hinnegan** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:00 am

Is that GIF from the Broadway production of Sweeney Todd, by chance? The eyes and hair style are similar...

~You sir!, You sir! How about a shave!?
Come and... visit... your good friend Sweeney!
You, sir! Too, sir!? Welcome to the grave!
I will have vengeance....~

by **RogueScribner** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:41 am

OAR

Original Aspect Ratio

by **minstrel** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:08 pm

Widescreen is best, of course. Pan and scan just doesn't work.

I first became aware of this waaay back when when I saw The NeverEnding Story in theaters, then on VHS. There is a joke in the film during the scene where Atreyu goes to the tower for the first time. In the theatrical version you see the nighthob's head appear rising in one of the "windows" on the far left of the screen, then you see his bat's head descending from another "window" on the right. It gets a laugh because the shot is fixed. In the VHS version (fullscreen), you see the nighthob, then it pans over to the other window so that you can see the bat. The pan gives away the joke! With a fixed shot, you get the surprise of the joke, with the pan, you know in advance that there's going to be something to see over there. When I first saw that, it pissed me off and I started hating pan-and-scan versions, and looking for widescreen versions of films to watch.

Unless something was originally shot to be shown on television, it should be seen on widescreen. Anything else is a lesser compromise.

by **Fievel** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:15 pm

Okay... who's the wise-ass that voted for fullscreen?!?!?

by **RogueScribner** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:20 pm

I didn't vote because there is no option for OAR. I want to see things how the director intended them to be seen, whether that be 1.33:1, 1.75:1, 2.35:1, 2.76:1 or anything in between.

Now, if you're asking what my preference is, how I'd prefer directors shoot their stuff, then I'd say 2.35:1 in the theaters and 1.33:1 for TV (since I don't have a widescreen television). 1.75:1 letterboxed on TV isn't so bad as it still fills most of the screen, but anything higher than can seem a little tiny.

by **Nachokoolaid** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:49 pm

Fullscreen

should be wiped from the face of the planet.

by **burlivesleftnut** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:30 pm

I picked Fullscreen as a protest to this stupid thread.

by **minstrel** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:31 pm

burlivesleftnut wrote:I picked Fullscreen as a protest to this stupid thread.

And your reputation for evil is strengthened ...

:wink:

by **The Vicar** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:33 pm

Mark Hinnegan wrote:Is that GIF from the Broadway production of Sweeney Todd, by chance? The eyes and hair style are similar...

~You sir!, You sir! How about a shave!?
Come and... visit... your good friend Sweeney!
You, sir! Too, sir!? Welcome to the grave!
I will have vengeance....~

It is, Available on DVD, featuring George Hearn and Angela Landesbury.
It's the DVD I'd show to aliens when attempting to explain "theatre" to them.

by **The Vicar** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:36 pm

RogueScribner wrote:OAR

Original Aspect Ratio

Whenever possible.
I want to see it on the canvas that the director "painted" on.

by **minstrel** on Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:25 pm

The Vicar wrote:
RogueScribner wrote:OAR

Original Aspect Ratio

Whenever possible.
I want to see it on the canvas that the director "painted" on.

Of course. I think the original question is "widescreen" versus "fullscreen" because those are the two options you generally have when purchasing a DVD. I just want to see everything that was in the original frames; I don't want stuff cut off at the sides.

by **RogueScribner** on Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:10 am

A case were full screen is preferable: the Evil Dead DVD. The film was shot on 16mm with a 1.33:1 aspect ratio and the first DVD release reflected this. But then a DVD reissue had it at 1.85:1! Meaning, you actually LOST picture with the widescreen format!

OAR all the way, baby. However the film was originally composed and presented is how I want to see it.

by **The Vicar** on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:09 am

RogueScribner wrote:A case were full screen is preferable: the Evil Dead DVD. The film was shot on 16mm with a 1.33:1 aspect ratio and the first DVD release reflected this. But then a DVD reissue had it at 1.85:1! Meaning, you actually LOST picture with the widescreen format!

OAR all the way, baby. However the film was originally composed and presented is how I want to see it.

Gospel.

by **Fievel** on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:48 am

Obviously even Sarah Palin would want OAR, but that's not what's asked here.
It's an either/or poll.
....with no Kong option.

But there's a more important question to be asked:

Who are the THREE WISE-ASSES that voted for Fullscreen..... and why?
Seriously, if you prefer Fullscreen why?

by **minstrel** on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:53 am

Fievel wrote:Who are the THREE WISE-ASSES that voted for Fullscreen..... and why?
Seriously, if you prefer Fullscreen why?

Burl confessed to being one of them due to his habitual orneriness.

by **RogueScribner** on Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:58 am

I voted full screen because the poll, IMO, is invalid. Give me OAR or give me death!!!

by **Seppuku** on Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:50 am

RogueScribner wrote:I voted full screen because the poll, IMO, is invalid. Give me OAR or give me death!!!

Done. The poll that is, not the death. I also set it to allow re-voting, so anyone who's voted so far can change their vote to OAR.

EDIT: Looks like it refreshed the votes when I edited the poll anyway.

Meh, I'm with Burl, this thread's kinda silly (who doesn't prefer OAR?). But no one's really posting in anything else right now, so I guess it lives.

by **Fried Gold** on Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:06 am

As this is in the DVD forum, is this about the technical specification - "do we prefer DVDs to have the proper aspect ratio for the film?" If so, it's kind of a pointless thread. As I would think everyone wants to see films in the aspect ratio they were conceived in by the director.

If you're asking - "do we prefer "widescreen" films over "fullscreen" - it all depends. Different directors choose particular aspect ratios for particular reasons and the good ones know how to use the aspect ratio for the positive and compose their shots accordingly.

A lot of films now appear to use the full, wide cinemascope format just because it looks cool...without actually using that space for any real purpose.

Stanley Kubrick once said that he preferred height in his images than width and even once thought about shooting a film in a sideways format (like "widescreen" but tipped up on one side).

by **TheBaxter** on Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:14 am

and yet, if you ask the average wal-mart shopper, they would vote for fullscreen.
they will also complain the first time they watch one on their new HDTV and see black bars on both sides.

by **Fried Gold** on Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:49 pm

TheBaxter wrote:and yet, if you ask the average wal-mart shopper, they would vote for fullscreen.
they will also complain the first time they watch one on their new HDTV and see black bars on both sides.

I hate it when people with widescreen tellys stretch 4:3 pictures out, so everyone in the show is short and wide.

by **King Psyz** on Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:52 pm

Fried Gold wrote:
TheBaxter wrote:and yet, if you ask the average wal-mart shopper, they would vote for fullscreen.
they will also complain the first time they watch one on their new HDTV and see black bars on both sides.

I hate it when people with widescreen tellys stretch 4:3 pictures out, so everyone in the show is short and wide.

I do it because it makes everyone on TV look more like me...

by **burlivesleftnut** on Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:36 pm

Re-voted for Full because I still think this is stupid.

by **tapehead** on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:01 am

Anyone else feel like maybe threads like this get started just so some know-it-all can breeze in and say 'well you know some pretty notable directors like Jim Cameron and Kubrick both prefer 4:3 and shot their films for that ratio'?

So now I have...

by **DaleTremont** on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:10 am

I'm assuming we've already established that by fullscreen we mean a certain aspect ratio and not the thing where TV and DVDs just cut off a wider screen format at the ends to fill up the screen for people who don't like authenticity...

Because that's just stoopid.

Anyway, I used to think I was a 2.35 snob but then like tapehead just mentioned some perfectly brilliant directors use even a 4:3 format as well. I was just watching Lost in Translation and realized that's the format Coppola was using...I think.

Plus honestly it bothers me watching something 2.35 on the small screen...I think it was really designed for a movie theater.

Yeah :mrgreen:

by **Fievel** on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:35 am

Since this is the DVD forum, and there's really only two simple options when it comes to DVDs (Widescreen, Fullscreen), I voted Kongscreen.

by **Fried Gold** on Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:03 am

tapehead wrote:Anyone else feel like maybe threads like this get started just so some know-it-all can breeze in and say 'well you know some pretty notable directors like Jim Cameron and Kubrick both prefer 4:3 and shot their films for that ratio'?

So now I have...

I'd beaten you to Kubrick already...

by **Raziel** on Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:40 am

Original ratio all the way, how it was meant to be shown. Aren't there some editions of films (an old Evil Dead release, for example?) that actually do a fake 'widescreen' effect by masking off a 4:3-shot film with black bars, thus actually cutting off some of the picture?

Kubrick's preference for full frame in some cases-The Shining and Full Metal Jacket, for instance-is interesting. They do look well in this ratio, but it is a pity in cases where something is filmed widescreen and then cropped. As for Cameron, wasn't he one of the Super 35mm pioneers? If a 35mm film is shot in such a way that you don't loose information on the sides when shown full frame (you do gain top and bottom info), then that's fine. But I think I saw a screencap of T2 online that revealed info was lost on the sides when shown 4:3. On a related not, pity The Abyss hasn't been released anamorphically on DVD (perhaps a new release-or hopefully a Blu Ray edition-could remedy that).

by **papalazeru** on Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:00 pm

Hasn't there been an aspect ratio thread already?

by **movieguru1** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:05 am

If I want black bars reducing the effective viewing area of my tv screen I can put black tape on it myself. Stop the authoritarian marxist mentality and give us the choice to view the movies any way we want. All DVDs should come with the option to view in wide screen or full screen. End of story. If you agree start demanding full screen DVDs and stop buying them in wide screen until they change their mind.

by **TheBaxter** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:29 am

movieguru1 wrote:If I want black bars reducing the effective viewing area of my tv screen I can put black tape on it myself. Stop the authoritarian marxist mentality and give us the choice to view the movies any way we want. All DVDs should come with the option to view in wide screen or full screen. End of story. If you agree start demanding full screen DVDs and stop buying them in wide screen until they change their mind.

i don't agree. so i'll continue my authoritarian marxist demand that all movies be released only in their original aspect ratio. and then i'm going back to read the chapter of the communist manifesto that talks about why OAR is so much preferable to those bourgeois full-screen disks.

by **TonyWilson** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:31 am

Stop making me just post "ditto" under your posts, Baxter. Stop it right now.

by **Pacino86845** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:59 am

Personally, I can't wait 'til movieguru1 gets a widescreen TV and starts writing about the authoritarian marxist mentality that forces him to watch old TV shows in 1:33:1... if he wanted black bands on the sides of his screen then by golly he woulda just taped 'em up!!

by **Fievel** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:10 pm

What an odd topic to dig up for a first post.

by **TheBaxter** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:18 pm

TonyWilson wrote:Stop making me just post "ditto" under your posts, Baxter. Stop it right now.

sure thing, commie.

by **TonyWilson** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:41 pm

In communist Aspect-Ratio-land Baxter ditto's your posts!

by **travis-dane** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:34 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:Personally, I can't wait 'til movieguru1 gets a widescreen TV and starts writing about the authoritarian marxist mentality that forces him to watch old TV shows in 1:33:1... if he wanted black bands on the sides of his screen then by golly he woulda just taped 'em up!!

Yup.

by **tapehead** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:59 pm

I forgot that Karl Marx devoted a whole chapter of Das Kapital to film aspect ratios, suitable cinema condiments and suggested skirt lengths for those ushers with the trays that sell candy - thanks for reminding me movieguru1!

by **TonyWilson** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:12 pm

Anything but widescreen is a betrayal of the worker, tape, get with the program(pogrom?)

by **Cpt Kirks 2pay** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:42 pm

movieguru1 wrote:If I want black bars reducing the effective viewing area of my tv screen I can put black tape on it myself. Stop the authoritarian marxist mentality and give us the choice to view the movies any way we want. All DVDs should come with the option to view in wide screen or full screen. End of story. If you agree start demanding full screen DVDs and stop buying them in wide screen until they change their mind.

I put black tape over your post myself. How you like that? The Authoritarian Marxist Communist Ming the Merciless Robbie Williams reign of Evil revolution WILL be televised!!!! And not a thing that black tape over said television can do about it!!!!!!!!!!!

by **magicmonkey** on Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:
movieguru1 wrote:If I want black bars reducing the effective viewing area of my tv screen I can put black tape on it myself. Stop the authoritarian marxist mentality and give us the choice to view the movies any way we want. All DVDs should come with the option to view in wide screen or full screen. End of story. If you agree start demanding full screen DVDs and stop buying them in wide screen until they change their mind.

I put black tape over your post myself. How you like that? The Authoritarian Marxist Communist Ming the Merciless Robbie Williams reign of Evil revolution WILL be televised!!!! And not a thing that black tape over said television can do about it!!!!!!!!!!!

Foook! That dude needs a bigger TV set. Why don't you get a projector? The HD ones are BADASS.

by **Fried Gold** on Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:58 am

If you have a widescreen telly, Isn't widescreen fullscreen?

by **TheBaxter** on Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:20 am

only a fascist commie would ever own a widescreen tv.

by **movieguru1** on Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:28 am

TonyWilson wrote:Anything but widescreen is a betrayal of the worker, tape, get with the program(pogrom?)

Wow, talk about elitism, it looks like I have stumbled onto the devil's lair, the children of Marx live after all, and will not rest until the full screen format is no longer. So be it, I'll just keep zooming in my movies and screw your aspect ratio and preserving the content bullshit. (I can always pay 20 bucks to see it in eyemax) As my Progressive lady would say "Power to the people"

by **Fievel** on Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:01 am

movieguru..... welcome to the Zone.

Having said that, your statements are wrong. Between Fullscreen and Widescreen, if anything is the result of an authoritarian mentality it would be Fullscreen.

Who decides which parts of the original picture are cut out?
Who decides where the zoom will focus on?
Who decides I ask you?

The removal of an artist's content from a film is much more fascist than the lack of a fullscreen option.

The Zone

What Do You Prefer Watching?