What are your thoughts on vocoders?

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What are your thoughts on vocoders?

Postby Sir Shit Stain Sr. on Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:35 pm

Kanye West is one of the worst criminals of overusing this. I can't tolerate and not want to punch the walls when I hear this form of 'singing'. I want to do the same with Kanye's face when I am forced to listen to him. Music is not as incredible as it was 30 years ago anyway. But why kill it and destroy it more with so many artists using vocoda to cut my ears to death? It sounds infuriating and hides the fact that people can't sing and it is spreading everywhere like Cholera.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:05 am

The vocoder is an instrument like any other.
Played well, it works.
Played poorly? well, people still buy the shit.

The only instance of a well played or utilized (in case you want to argue the definition of "instrument") vocoder i can think of is the Dr. Who theme circa 1982.

EDIT: Kraftwerk's later stuff?
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby Sir Shit Stain Sr. on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:15 am

It is no longer played well. As it is overplayed. That, is a fact.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:17 am

What about Kanye...?

He used it well...

You're heartless if you think otherwise...
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:17 am

Sir Shit Stain Sr. wrote:It is no longer played well. As it is overplayed. That, is a fact.


No, it's an opinion.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby Sir Shit Stain Sr. on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:31 am

havocSchultz wrote:What about Kanye...?

He used it well...

You're heartless if you think otherwise...


No he didn't and no I'm not. What I say is fact. If it isn't, then prove it. You can't.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby TonyWilson on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:39 am

It's actually called Auto-Tune, in the cases of Kanye and Cher at least.
Elitism is positing that your taste is equivalent to quality, you hate "Hamlet" does it make it "bad"? If you think so, you're one elite motherfucker.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:43 am

TonyWilson wrote:It's actually called Auto-Tune, in the cases of Kanye and Cher at least.


i dunno, Kanye definitely uses a vocoder on tour.
If you see some of the live performances on youtube, you'll hear flaws & imperfections that differ from performance to performance.

Cher did use the auto-tune vst plugin though.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby TonyWilson on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:47 am

Fair enough, all the stuff on 808's and Heartbreak is Auto-Tuned though, as in that's what gives it the vocoderised feel.
Elitism is positing that your taste is equivalent to quality, you hate "Hamlet" does it make it "bad"? If you think so, you're one elite motherfucker.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:48 am

TonyWilson wrote:Fair enough, all the stuff on 808 and Heartbreaks is Auto-Tuned though.


Most pop albums are nowadays.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby havocSchultz on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:59 am

I actually do kinda like some of the stuff I've heard from 808's...
Yeah, Kanye can have a bit of a shit voice sometimes...and he can be an arrogant Struggling Background Artist...but he's got some skills...

And I actually enjoyed his performance of Heartless on SNL...

And it's not like I'm a huge Kanye fan or anything...
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby TonyWilson on Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:02 am

He's a better producer than rapper and his greatest work isn't even one of his own albums but he still drops some cool tracks from time to time. Flashing Lights in particular is really good.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby stereosforgeeks on Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:14 am

Personally I think his voice is one of the things that made him unique. His wired jaw really made him distinct and to cover it up with autotune really hindered the album in my opinion. That being said I still enjoyed his albums but autotune annoys me in most cases.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby tapehead on Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:54 am

Sir Shit Stain Sr. wrote:Kanye West is one of the worst criminals of overusing this. I can't tolerate and not want to punch the walls when I hear this form of 'singing'. I want to do the same with Kanye's face when I am forced to listen to him. Music is not as incredible as it was 30 years ago anyway. But why kill it and destroy it more with so many artists using vocoda to cut my ears to death? It sounds infuriating and hides the fact that people can't sing and it is spreading everywhere like Cholera.


Someone forces you to listen to Kanye West? I kinda like a couple of tracks of his latest, and autotune or not, you can still recognise his voice. I figured since it was his first album where he doesn't mc much, it was a way to assist vocals he might consider slightly weak.

Music was more incredible in 1979? how so?

The vocoder somehow destroys music?

Use of the Vocoder is spreading like an infectious disease?

You sure make a lot of contentions you can't back up or substantiate.

Here is a brief article explaining the difference between the auto-tune and the vocoder so next time you won't sound quite as silly - I mean, given an a/b comparison, they don't even sound that much alike.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby papalazeru on Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:43 am

TonyWilson wrote:It's actually called Auto-Tune, in the cases of Kanye and Cher at least.



Thanks Tony for clearing that up. I had no fucking idea what a Vocodas was.

It's like anything, a fantasy film comes out, tons turn up, a horror film turns up, then loads follow only to saturate the market.

It's the same with instrumentation, The Romantic period in music had a large expansion in instruments including doubling up, that became part of the genre. Jungle only used particular instruments, that became the genre.

Obviously in recent years, Vocoders have become the main stay in Pop.

And yes, I hate it when they saturate the market. Just like all those fucking girl singers who sing in a mockney English accent.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby CeeBeeUK on Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:47 am

papalazeru wrote: I hate it when they saturate the market. Just like all those fucking girl singers who sing in a mockney English accent.



Of course you do. We all know you have a crush on Lily Allen!
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby papalazeru on Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:58 am

CeeBeeUK wrote:
papalazeru wrote: I hate it when they saturate the market. Just like all those fucking girl singers who sing in a mockney English accent.



Of course you do. We all know you have a crush on Lily Allen!


You got it wrong...it's I have to CRUSH Lilley Allen.

I know in Havoc's case, that's the same.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby CeeBeeUK on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:04 am

Oh. Right. I misunderstood ;)



:lol:
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby Gerald Fried on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:16 am

Not many people use the "Talk box" anymore.

Apart from Richie Sambora who uses it so much he has had one surgically grafted onto his mouth.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby papalazeru on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:44 am

Gerald Fried wrote:Not many people use the "Talk box" anymore.

Apart from Richie Sambora who uses it so much he has had one surgically grafted onto his mouth.


Hawkins has a Texas 'speak and spell' attached. Does that count?
Last edited by papalazeru on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby CeeBeeUK on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:49 am

papalazeru wrote:
Gerald Fried wrote:Not many people use the "Talk box" anymore.

Apart from Richie Sambora who uses it so much he has had one surgically grafted onto his mouth.


Hawkins has a speak and spell attached. Does that count?


Now spell... theoretical cosmology!
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby papalazeru on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:04 am

You are correct.

I bet the early 6800 processor in there also does his maths.

and he does sing....

Here

and plays the piano...

[rul=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=se1Rbr8zdVU]here[/url]
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:32 pm

Gerald Fried wrote:Not many people use the "Talk box" anymore.

Apart from Richie Sambora who uses it so much he has had one surgically grafted onto his mouth.


Dave Grohl used it on "My Generator" on the second(?) foo fighters album.

quite a few of Dr. Dre's "band"(studio musicians or hired hands), if you want to call them that, used it in his compositions over the years. Mostly to build on the zapp & george clinton samples or interpolations he was using.
The most obvious case was when he got Roger from Zapp to collaborate on California Love.

Daft Punk used (& continue to use them) in conjunction with the Yamaha DX100s (or whatever synths they're using now).

Other than that, erm, i dunno, there's noting that springs to mind.

i have one lying around.
Seems to work a lot better with a guitar than with a synth though.
It was cheep & gives a nice Hendrix tone so i can't complain that much.

It does make you look like a complete fanny though.


papalazeru wrote:You are correct.

I bet the early 6800 processor in there also does his maths.

and he does sing....

Here

and plays the piano...

here


I don't think his chair is built by Motorola.
Maybe a knockoff.
Either way, they should replace the chip in his voicebox with a c=64 SID chip.
That way he can play the Flimbo's Quest intro music as his own intro music.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby Fievel on Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:01 am

King Of Nowhere wrote:
Gerald Fried wrote:Not many people use the "Talk box" anymore.

Apart from Richie Sambora who uses it so much he has had one surgically grafted onto his mouth.


Dave Grohl used it on "My Generator" on the second(?) foo fighters album.

quite a few of Dr. Dre's "band"(studio musicians or hired hands), if you want to call them that, used it in his compositions over the years. Mostly to build on the zapp & george clinton samples or interpolations he was using.
The most obvious case was when he got Roger from Zapp to collaborate on California Love.

Daft Punk used (& continue to use them) in conjunction with the Yamaha D10s (or whatever synths they're using now).

Other than that, erm, i dunno, there's noting that springs to mind.

i have one lying around.
Seems to work a lot better with a guitar than with a synth though.
It was cheep & gives a nice Hendrix tone so i can't complain that much.

It does make you look like a complete fanny though.


Peter Frampton weeps at all of this.
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby minstrel on Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:19 am

Fievel wrote:
King Of Nowhere wrote:
Gerald Fried wrote:Not many people use the "Talk box" anymore.

Apart from Richie Sambora who uses it so much he has had one surgically grafted onto his mouth.


Dave Grohl used it on "My Generator" on the second(?) foo fighters album.

quite a few of Dr. Dre's "band"(studio musicians or hired hands), if you want to call them that, used it in his compositions over the years. Mostly to build on the zapp & george clinton samples or interpolations he was using.
The most obvious case was when he got Roger from Zapp to collaborate on California Love.

Daft Punk used (& continue to use them) in conjunction with the Yamaha D10s (or whatever synths they're using now).

Other than that, erm, i dunno, there's noting that springs to mind.

i have one lying around.
Seems to work a lot better with a guitar than with a synth though.
It was cheep & gives a nice Hendrix tone so i can't complain that much.

It does make you look like a complete fanny though.


Peter Frampton weeps at all of this.


Aaaaand Peter Frampton no longer has a career. Coincidence? Come on, folks! Coincidence? I .... think .... NOT!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: What are your thoughts on Vocodas?

Postby Fried Gold on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:39 am

King Of Nowhere wrote:
Gerald Fried wrote:Not many people use the "Talk box" anymore.

Apart from Richie Sambora who uses it so much he has had one surgically grafted onto his mouth.


Dave Grohl used it on "My Generator" on the second(?) foo fighters album.

quite a few of Dr. Dre's "band"(studio musicians or hired hands), if you want to call them that, used it in his compositions over the years. Mostly to build on the zapp & george clinton samples or interpolations he was using.
The most obvious case was when he got Roger from Zapp to collaborate on California Love.

Daft Punk used (& continue to use them) in conjunction with the Yamaha D10s (or whatever synths they're using now).

Other than that, erm, i dunno, there's noting that springs to mind.

i have one lying around.
Seems to work a lot better with a guitar than with a synth though.
It was cheep & gives a nice Hendrix tone so i can't complain that much.

It does make you look like a complete fanny though.


True.

Plus one has to wonder about the potential breeding ground for germs and other scum in the tube. You wouldn't want that lying around in a roadie's van for too long without it being disinfected.
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Re: What are your thoughts on vocoders?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:38 am

On most models the tube can detach & you can throw it in the sink after you've done the dishes to clean it.
Not sure if it's dishwasher safe though.

At the other end of the germ spectrum, search youtube for "ghetto talkbox".

On the other hand, the guys from zapp used custom built ones too.
I think "Zapp" himself (Terry Troutman) still sells them.
Roger & co never died due to the germs in the tube.

I'm sure someone will post saying that unclean talk boxes have a link to being shot dead by your brother though.

Someone mentioned Frampton, the guy is an ass.
No mention of Pink Floyd yet, they didn't really use it as a gimmick though.


As this is the vocoder thread, i think it's astonishing that we've all forgot about Walter/Wendy Carlos.
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Re: What are your thoughts on vocoders?

Postby Tyrone_Shoelaces on Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:01 pm

Get your own vocoder. It's not exactly a vocoder but it will do the job, and no tube - sanitary!
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Re: What are your thoughts on vocoders?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:11 pm

the concept of the autotune was nothing new when it came out either.

Artists had been doing multiple vocal overdubs for decades, to cover up the bum notes.

Tupac was notorious for using multiple overdubs on his verses to mask out the fact that he was running out of breath.
That's why his voice sounds loud & powerful on the later stuff (Don Killuminati, All Eyez On Me & the singles he put out while on Death Row) compared to his tone on the early albums (2Pacalypse Now etc.)
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Re: What are your thoughts on vocoders?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:13 pm

Right, heres a video of someone playing the vocoder
Here's a video of someone using a talkbox with their synth
Finally, here's a video of someone using the Antares Auto-Tune

Personally, i had no idea the auto-tune had a rackmount version.
Kanye could use either live.
A vocoder would give the people behind the curtain more freedom, the auto-tune would make everything extremely easy if they had stored the config they were using & just loaded it at the start of every gig.
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Re: What are your thoughts on vocoders?

Postby DerLanghaarige on Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:13 pm

a.)This sound effect got old when Cher used it back in 1998 (And I laughed my ass off when Kanye was at Conan and advertised it like he invented it and it's going to revolutionize the world of music forever!) and b.) If you know how to use it right, you can do some incredible stuff with it. There are some Daft Punk tracks where you got no idea if you hear someone speaking or if someone plays an electric guitar.
Pretty much like every soundeffect or -instrument it depends on how and when you use it.
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Re: What are your thoughts on vocoders?

Postby tapehead on Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:48 am

King Of Nowhere wrote:Right, heres a video of someone playing the vocoder
Here's a video of someone using a talkbox with their synth
Finally, here's a video of someone using the Antares Auto-Tune

Personally, i had no idea the auto-tune had a rackmount version.
Kanye could use either live.
A vocoder would give the people behind the curtain more freedom, the auto-tune would make everything extremely easy if they had stored the config they were using & just loaded it at the start of every gig.


Whilst browsing for Moogs I happened to come across this video, which is kind of an advertisement, but also demonstrates the vocoder put to a couple of different uses.
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Re: What are your thoughts on vocoders?

Postby King Of Nowhere on Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:09 pm

BUMP.

I almost bought a Korg synth with vocoder yesterday, someone outbid me in the last 30 seconds or so.

I got Antares Auto-tune a while ago & i've been fucking about with it a little. I can't find many uses for it in the stuff i do, but the programmability of the thing is shocking.
You can select the scales it'll use, sequence a pattern for the vocals to follow or play it in real time via a midi controller. Playing it in real time pretty much makes it a vocoder, but without complete control of the waveforms you're filtering the vocals through.


I'm kinda surprised to see Timbaland using it on his new stuff. With the ridiculous faces he usually pulls, he's far more suited to a talk box.
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