The Zone

by **DennisMM** on Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:24 pm

I'm on the fence, Nacho. I've been looking at five pages of notes from two screenings and wondering if there's a need for another review when I wouldn't have that much more to say. Also, I've been sick all week. Watching the movie and making some notes is a long way from typing out a full review, and I would not want to merely transcribe my notes, as lots of them are prosaic and some others mean little to anyone but me.

Also, I spent four hours on the phone with Jenny today, so that time was unavailable for writing. Though we did talk about the movie for a couple of minutes. :lol:

by **Fievel** on Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:48 pm

Dennis, The Zone needs your review. You ARE the resident Watchmen expert.
You have put more time into reading, dissecting, researching, and enjoying this story than anyone could imagine.
A lack of review from you would be of the utmost sucktitude, even if everything you say mirrors what others have said.

So do it!
Take your time...
Get it right...
But do it, please.

I, and your country, thank you.

by **DennisMM** on Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:56 pm

I'll give it a shot, Fievel. Need to refresh my mind on some McLuhan first. Thank the gods for Wikipedia.

by **tapehead** on Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:00 pm

Dennis, you need to put your review of the film on the internets because so many people like this kid have already. You must help restore the karmic balance!

by **burlivesleftnut** on Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:59 pm

tapehead wrote:Dennis, you need to put your review of the film on the internets because so many people like this kid have already. You must help restore the karmic balance!

You'll die for that.

by **Leckomaniac** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:48 am

Ladies and Gentlemen, Friends, Distinguished Members of the Zone may I present to you:

Leckomaniac's WATCHMEN Review!

My brother always likes to say that I am incapable of admitting I am wrong. Due to that, I hardly ever say that I am sorry. Now, I do not think that is the case, obviously, but at the very least I am about to provide irrefutable proof that he is incorrect. Because I have seen WATCHMEN and I was wrong. And Zack Snyder, I apologize.

Many of you know that I am one of many slavish devotees to WATCHMEN, the book. I still consider it one of my most prized possessions and more than simply an impeccable work that elevated all comics, it is a symbol of what brought me to the comic book watering hole. It is the book that made me see the light, as they say. There were some who questioned, based on my many complaints, whether I would have been satisfied with any adaptation of WATCHMEN to the screen. Deep down, I thought they were probably correct. How could I ever enjoy WATCHMEN the film? I can't stand Zack Snyder! The trailers don't look like WATCHMEN at all! They changed the costumes! Veidt is made out so OBVIOUSLY to be the "villain"! They changed the ending! AGHAST!

I told anyone who would listen that I could NOT see this film because what would be up on that screen would NEVER be WATCHMEN and that I could NEVER enjoy it. I was wrong. Ironically enough, I was right about my complaints. Every last one of them. The costumes was a problem for me. The telegraphing of Veidt was a problem. The change to the ending is not nearly as satisfying given John's ties to the US government. It only works if the threat is truly external with no ties to any government. Furthermore, Tyler Bates needs to never be allowed to score another film again because his cues made me want to stab my ears with scissors. There are any number of complaints I can level and be vindicated in knowing that they should have been rectified and an ideal WATCHMEN film would have done so. But I was wrong in saying that I couldn't enjoy a less than ideal version because I did.

I will always maintain that Snyder would never appear on my "ideal" list of directors for WATCHMEN. He is incapable of directing that film. However, he deserves so much credit and he certainly put me in my place on a number of things. Firstly, that he would not be able to get the performances necessary out of the cast. He did, and then some. I was floored at how well everyone fit. People seem intent on ripping Akerman, but she never made me cringe. It is largely a thankless role and she gave a passable effort, in my opinion. And then there is Veidt. It is obvious that Snyder was intent on telegraphing his involvement from the start and that is how he had his writers shape Veidt and how he directed Goode. From that perspective I think Goode did a respectable job. His Veidt was arrogant and oozed with douchebaggery. Is this how it was in the book? I never read him that way, but this is something different I kept reminding myself. But the rest of the cast shines ever so bright. I can't say enough I impressed I was with everyone. Snyder did a fantastic job getting those performances. And secondly, Snyder deserves credit because of just how much he was able to keep in. Ultimately, most of WATCHMEN was discernible on screen. I can honestly say that was not something I expected.

I conclude, then, at the end. The book exists as a sort of debate between Kovacs and Veidt and John, as god, ultimately is left to make the decision of who is right and who is wrong. The reader, as a more detached version of god, is left to draw their own conclusions. It is the brilliance of WATCHMEN. The film never reaches those heights, but it is still enjoyable. I smiled the moment the film started and I still wore my grin as the credits rolled at the end. I firmly believe the film would play a lot better with the original ending intact and the complete removal of any music. The original score and the soundtrack were abysmal beyond belief. Keep the credits and Dylan and Philip Glass on mars, but play the rest of the movie with only dialogue and external noises. That is just me, though. I won't nitpick further, I did enough of that before the release. It all still holds true, but none of that really matters. Was it a perfect facsimile? No. Is that even possible? Not a chance. But I do believe just enough was there and in the end that proved enough for me. So, I was wrong and I am sorry.

Post Script: I think the best thing that could have happened to allow my enjoyment of the film was the trailers. They so lowered my expectations and proved every one of my misgivings that I was in the position to be surprised at what actually was there. Not exactly what trailers are cut for, but they certainly produced that effect in me.

by **caruso_stalker217** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:43 am

I thought the biggest misstep was Nixon. Even in the book you don't see him all that clearly. Here he's a guy with a penis on his face.

by **Bloo** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:39 am

I haven't seen it yet, but my brother did

he's not the comic book fan that I am, but he loves comic book movies, like he enjoys the Fantastic four movies and Ghost Rider and LXG

he loved it and wants to read the GN which is a huge step for a 19 y/o college football player imo

by **Nachokoolaid** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:53 am

caruso_stalker217 wrote:I thought the biggest misstep was Nixon. Even in the book you don't see him all that clearly. Here he's a guy with a penis on his face.

I've seen a lot of complaints about Nixon, and I don't really get the ire. I guess it just didn't bother me that much. To me, it seemed like it could be a logical look for the real man, aged a bit.

by **Maui** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:59 am

I think this is more accurate:

by **Al Shut** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:41 pm

My friend thought Nixon looked like a Simpsons/Futurama version of himself. I thought that was a pretty apt comparison.

by **Spandau Belly** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:14 pm

Aside from Nixon having one of those rubbery Dick Tracy faces, the scenes with him in them played too much like Doctor Strangelove or something. I thought the book really communicated the sense of a world that had given up on itself and had resigned itself to a fate beyond its control. Just like the way people seem to feel in Blade Runner or that cartoon movie Akira. And it put more pressure on the heroes and the whole superhero concept of regular men taking a stand and making a difference.

Once you put Nixon in there as an actual character we start seeing a guy who could solve all this but isn't. It's better to focus on the billions of helpless people. It's actually the one thing I liked about Spielburg's War Of The Worlds was that he kept everything on the ground level. Same goes for Cloverfield. Keep things on one level, either make Cloverfield or make Thirteen Days, but don't do them both together.

by **Ribbons** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:01 pm

How the studios WOULD have ended Watchmen

by **Fried Gold** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:52 pm

Ribbons wrote:How the studios WOULD have ended Watchmen

The Wachowski's Watchmen?

by **DennisMM** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:17 pm

Watchmen was The Wachowskis Watchmen, wasn't it? At least if they'd made it right after The Matrix.

by **Nachokoolaid** on Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:06 pm

I'm just thankful that we got a pretty damn good version of Watchmen and we're able to joke about endings like this. I could seriously see this easily being the actual ending. All thanks and praise to Snyder.

by **tapehead** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:33 am

Nachokoolaid wrote:All thanks and praise to Snyder.

Now, let's not go nuts...

by **Gerald Fried** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:04 am

Nachokoolaid wrote:All thanks and praise to Snyder.

...for being so visionary as to copy directly from a comic.

by **TheBaxter** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:25 am

caruso_stalker217 wrote:I thought the biggest misstep was Nixon. Even in the book you don't see him all that clearly. Here he's a guy with a penis on his face.

well, at least it's historically accurate.

by **TheBaxter** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:25 am

Spandau Belly wrote:Zach Snyder suffers from a mild case of Michael Bay's Disorder and Cameron Crowe Disease. His Bay problem isn't in that he's been reduced to manic editing, but Snyder's still so obsessed with getting every shot perfectly lit and framed that he loses touch with the rhythym of an overall scene and of an overall movie. He rushes everything, not letting actors pause between any of their lines or sitting back and letting us just watch a character on their own and do some acting with their face and motions 'n shit. It's about emphasis. Guys like Bay don't get that if everything is loud, nothing is loud. If every shot is beautiful, none of them are special.

this condition is also known as Georgelucasitis.

Spandau Belly wrote:But one thing I didn't like in the book and also in the movie was that epilogue with the journalist and Rorschach's journal.

i agree. the book and movie should have ended with dr. manhattan - "nothing ever ends"
it's even worse in the movie though, because you never even see those characters or barely even hear about the new frontiersman even.

by **Spandau Belly** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:43 am

TheBaxter wrote:
Spandau Belly wrote:Zach Snyder suffers from a mild case of Michael Bay's Disorder and Cameron Crowe Disease. His Bay problem isn't in that he's been reduced to manic editing, but Snyder's still so obsessed with getting every shot perfectly lit and framed that he loses touch with the rhythym of an overall scene and of an overall movie. He rushes everything, not letting actors pause between any of their lines or sitting back and letting us just watch a character on their own and do some acting with their face and motions 'n shit. It's about emphasis. Guys like Bay don't get that if everything is loud, nothing is loud. If every shot is beautiful, none of them are special.

this condition is also known as Georgelucasitis.

Actually, Georgelucasitis is being given complete creative control to the point that your ego goes unchecked and drives a project into the ground when it could've been saved by a bit of feedback.

Snyderitis is when attention to detail becomes obessesion with detail and a movie gets overwhelmed by creating powerful images or moments but not even being able to string them together into compelling scenes let alone a powerful film.

To be fair, there were many passages in Watchmen that worked for entire minutes at a time. I thought the stuff with Manhattan's backstory was handled perfectly. And most of the scenes with just Rorschach were good.

Snyder is just so interested in textures, sounds, lighting, motion, and images that he forgets about characters, atmosphere, mood, and rhythym. And that's fine for a brainless movie like 300, but here he's out of his depth.

TheBaxter wrote:
Spandau Belly wrote:But one thing I didn't like in the book and also in the movie was that epilogue with the journalist and Rorschach's journal.

i agree. the book and movie should have ended with dr. manhattan - "nothing ever ends"
it's even worse in the movie though, because you never even see those characters or barely even hear about the new frontiersman even.

Yes, the story should've ended quietly in Veidt's Arctic fortress. Dan snuggling with Laurie, Veidt content with his results, Rorschach a splatter in the snow, and Manhattan taking off for a new galaxy. But I see this as a quiet, bleak story, whereas Snyder saw it as loud and colourful and full of whoosh-whoosh magic kicking and pop songs.

That stuff with Dan and Laurie assuming new identities was kinda pointless and the cliffhanger with Rorschach's diary was just cheesy.

by **caruso_stalker217** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:51 pm

I see your point about the whoosh-whoosh magic kicking. I agree even. I like the movie and all, but it's still kinda weird that these non-superhuman people can apparently leap twenty feet through the air, throw punches that send people flying across the room and never get sweaty. You'd think after a decade of stagnation their crimefighting game would be all fucked to hell, but not these guys. This is like riding a bike, but with the aforementioned kicking.

So would I have preferred a version where they're normal humans who beat people up, instead of all the comic book kung-fu heroics? Sure. But at the same time I really can't argue with the kicking.

And I liked the pop songs.

by **Spandau Belly** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:33 pm

I've been thinking about this movie, and I think I might actually give this promised 5 hour director's cut a shot when it hits video. It may solve my one problem with this movie of it feeling it rushed and not really building any atmosphere or mood or even any real rapport between the characters. I understand that the studio would be willing to trim all that stuff down to the bone but not sacrifice a moment of wire-fu because as long you keep giving people action, the movie stands a better chance at making money. So maybe all the lengthly action sequences wouldn't be as long when in proportion to a longer movie.

As for the music, I was trying to think about another movie that shoves this much music at you and the only one I could think of was Forest Gump. Gump is not my favorite movie, but I think it worked and was enjoyable. I think the main difference in the use of popular music in these two films was that in Gump, Gump was telling America's story and we watched America develop and the music was part of America as a character. Strangely in Watchmen, almost none of the music is actually from the 1985 setting. Jimi Hendrix, Simon & Garfunkel, Bob Dylan, Nat King Cole etc were all used in scenes that were taking place in an era other than the one those songs are assoicated with/came out. I guess Nena and Tears For Fears were the only really totally 80s artists I can remember hearing in the movie.

I also think with more content the musical interludes will be diluted and maybe Snyder had more in mind for those sequences and they may become more enjoyable. I still don't think I'll understand the desired effect of looking at the back of Doc Manhattan's head while 99 Luftballoons plays.

So it's on you director's cut. Change my mind about this film. I think you can do it.

by **Ribbons** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:52 pm

Spandau Belly wrote:As for the music, I was trying to think about another movie that shoves this much music at you and the only one I could think of was Forest Gump. Gump is not my favorite movie, but I think it worked and was enjoyable. I think the main difference in the use of popular music in these two films was that in Gump, Gump was telling America's story and we watched America develop and the music was part of America as a character. Strangely in Watchmen, almost none of the music is actually from the 1985 setting. Jimi Hendrix, Simon & Garfunkel, Bob Dylan, Nat King Cole etc were all used in scenes that were taking place in an era other than the one those songs are assoicated with/came out. I guess Nena and Tears For Fears were the only really totally 80s artists I can remember hearing in the movie.

I don't remember the comic in detail, but I think the lyrics to Nat King Cole's "Unforgettable" and "All Along the Watchtower" are quoted in the same context. I don't know about Simon & Garfunkel, KC & The Sunshine Band, etc., although I think it's hard to get on Snyder's case for the use of "The Times They Are A-Changin" during a retrospective of American history just because not all of it takes place during the decade in which it was written. I think in a lot of cases the music was intended to evoke bygone eras rather than actually place the movie in those eras. Maybe not, I don't know. Personally it worked okay for me. The only musical choice I really disliked was the Wagner/Apocalypse Now "homage."

by **TonyWilson** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:40 pm

I'm with Ribbons on this. But Sound Of Silence at the cemetery was also really bad, just parody almost, especially with the establishing shot of the graves and then the pull out through the cemetery sign, you know, just in case we weren't sure what was going on :roll:

by **caruso_stalker217** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:13 pm

I liked the use of Cylon and Garfunkel.

Agree about the Wagner, though. It's the only cue I didn't really care for. Though what's the alternative? "Fortunate Son" again?

by **burlivesleftnut** on Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:20 pm

The Wagner actually seemed comedic to me. There's not a lot of humor in the story, and the Wagner music cue made me laugh, and not in an inappropriate way. We all know what movie the music is classically associated to, but that's what made it interesting to me. I liked the above comment that in this world, Apocalypse Now might never be made and so the music should be used SOMEHOW. Anyway, I liked it much more than some of the other "on the nose" musical cues.

by **TheBaxter** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:19 am

if i had my way, the whole movie would have been scored with cheesy 80s pop music

Culture Club "Do You Really Want to Hurt Me" during the comedian-silk spectre rape scene
Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Two Tribes" during any scene with nixon or nukes
Wang Chung - "Everybody Wang Chung Tonight" whenever there's blue wang all over the screen
Madonna - "True Blue" for any other scene with dr. manhattan
Wham! - "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" during the owl ship sex scene
Cyndi Lauper - "Time After Time" when manhattan's on mars reminiscing about his past
Corey Hart - "Sunglasses at Night" when nite owl is showing laurie his owl visor
The Go-Go's - "Our Lips Are Sealed" during the scene where they agree to keep Veidt's plot a secret

by **caruso_stalker217** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:06 am

"Time After Time" fuckin' rules. Rules!

by **Spandau Belly** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:55 am

So I guess we're all on the same page. The Simon & Garfunkel and Vagner where the worst uses of music in my opinion too. The Apocalypse Now allusion did make that scene funny. And the S&G use at The Comedian's funeral was really overselling it. I also thought the use of Leonard Cohen made that scene too funny. That could also come from the fact that I watched The O.C. and every time people hooked up on that show they played that song.

Like I said, I thought Nena was a suitable artist to use considering this movie is set in the 80s, it was just the way that song popped up after Laurie and Manhattan have a fight and he's playing with his nuclear device that seemed really odd to me.

And I actually liked both the juxtaposition of 'Unforgettable' to The Comedian's murder and the Bob Dylan for the openning credits. I would've rathered they hadn't been back to back creating like ten minutes of music. But I can live with it.

And I know Bob Dylan was quoted a lot in the book, but the book was set in the time it was written, the movie was trying to recreate a period.

I think I prefer TheBaxter's tracklist greatly to the one actually used.

by **Pacino86845** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:35 am

TheBaxter wrote:if i had my way, the whole movie would have been scored with cheesy 80s pop music

Culture Club "Do You Really Want to Hurt Me" during the comedian-silk spectre rape scene
Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Two Tribes" during any scene with nixon or nukes
Wang Chung - "Everybody Wang Chung Tonight" whenever there's blue wang all over the screen
Madonna - "True Blue" for any other scene with dr. manhattan
Wham! - "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" during the owl ship sex scene
Cyndi Lauper - "Time After Time" when manhattan's on mars reminiscing about his past
Corey Hart - "Sunglasses at Night" when nite owl is showing laurie his owl visor
The Go-Go's - "Our Lips Are Sealed" during the scene where they agree to keep Veidt's plot a secret

Someone with money should totally hire you to write Watchmen: The Musical!

by **TheBaxter** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:48 am

Pacino86845 wrote:
TheBaxter wrote:if i had my way, the whole movie would have been scored with cheesy 80s pop music

Culture Club "Do You Really Want to Hurt Me" during the comedian-silk spectre rape scene
Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Two Tribes" during any scene with nixon or nukes
Wang Chung - "Everybody Wang Chung Tonight" whenever there's blue wang all over the screen
Madonna - "True Blue" for any other scene with dr. manhattan
Wham! - "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" during the owl ship sex scene
Cyndi Lauper - "Time After Time" when manhattan's on mars reminiscing about his past
Corey Hart - "Sunglasses at Night" when nite owl is showing laurie his owl visor
The Go-Go's - "Our Lips Are Sealed" during the scene where they agree to keep Veidt's plot a secret

Someone with money should totally hire you to write Watchmen: The Musical!

only if i can direct!

first off, i'll hire that harry potter kid and paint him blue to play dr manhattan. we already know he likes to get naked on stage!

by **Seppuku** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:09 am

I'm suddenly wildly curious as to what John Hughes would have made of Watchmen. At the very least, Molly Ringwald would have been an improvement as the Silk Spectre (at least she's the right age).

by **caruso_stalker217** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:18 am

I envision a fuckin' BREAKFAST CLUB reunion. Anthony Michael Hall as Manhattan, Emilio Estevez as Rorschach, Judd Nelson as Ozymandias, Ally Sheedy as Nite Owl, zombie Paul Gleason for Deputy Police Chief Dwayne T. Robinson. Possible cameo by Ferris Bueller.

by **Tyrone_Shoelaces** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:38 pm

caruso_stalker217 wrote:I envision a fuckin' BREAKFAST CLUB reunion. Anthony Michael Hall as Manhattan, Emilio Estevez as Rorschach, Judd Nelson as Ozymandias, Ally Sheedy as Nite Owl, zombie Paul Gleason for Deputy Police Chief Dwayne T. Robinson. Possible cameo by Ferris Bueller.

That would be spectacular. I'd be watching it right now if it was so.

by **Spandau Belly** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:51 pm

I think Duckie would've grown up to be that sick child-killing pervert who Rorschach kills.

And you need John Candy in there as one of the old timey superheroes like Dollar Bill.

by **TheBaxter** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:36 pm

Spandau Belly wrote:I think Duckie would've grown up to be that sick child-killing pervert who Rorschach kills.

And you need John Candy in there as one of the old timey superheroes like Dollar Bill.

nah, duckie would be moloch.
james spader would make a good ozymandias.
john candy can be the owl ship.

by **TheBaxter** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:46 pm

ooh, i had a brainstorm. what about watchmen cast with aging 80s action heroes?

harrison ford as rorshach.
bruce willis as dr. manhattan (cos he's bald and likes to show off his wang in movies)
brigitte nielsen as silk spectre.
van damme as the original silk spectre.
danny trejo as the comedian.
dolph lundgren as veidt.
and sylvester stallone as nite owl, so that when he discovers veidt's plan, he can yell "AAAAAADRIANNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!"

by **Evil Hobbit** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:29 pm

Amazing opening, amazing main titles, amazing Rorschach, then it became a little distant, couldn't connect to the story and characters that much, snoozed of a few at around 3/4 of the movie, 99 luftballon????, couldn't help but feel as if the nuke had no real impact or meaning to the watchmen world what so ever, terrible end credits music.

Conclusion: mixed feelings, loved parts, bored by other parts. I give it a 7, no real urge to see it again, rather read the book one more time.

by **Ribbons** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:36 pm

Retardo_Montalban wrote:I'm going to get super flak for this, but I cringed during that scene when Silk Spectre I (Carla Gugino) was explaining why she felt bad that Blake died to Silk Spectre II (Malin Ackerman). That was some bad soap opera acting, right there.

No way man, I'm right with you on that one. I mean I know Carla Gugino's not exactly Meryl Streep, but I was pretty surprised by how terrible she was in this movie. I was actually distracted by her performance, which usually doesn't happen to me. Was it just the old-person make-up, or what?

by **caruso_stalker217** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:41 pm

It seemed a little... off. Malin Akerman usually isn't the best actor in a scene. Though I had no problems with her in this film.

Gugino, though. I don't know. I think, yeah, I think it was cuz she was old. She don't do old.

by **Maui** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:46 pm

Both Ackerman and Gugino were the pits in this film.

by **caruso_stalker217** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:05 pm

LIES!

Nixon was bad enough to make everybody look like, uh, like some really good actors. You know, Brando and shit.

by **Ribbons** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:12 pm

I'll tell you why: OLD-PERSON MAKE-UP!

by **Maui** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:37 pm

TheBaxter wrote:if i had my way, the whole movie would have been scored with cheesy 80s pop music

Culture Club "Do You Really Want to Hurt Me" during the comedian-silk spectre rape scene
Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Two Tribes" during any scene with nixon or nukes
Wang Chung - "Everybody Wang Chung Tonight" whenever there's blue wang all over the screen
Madonna - "True Blue" for any other scene with dr. manhattan
Wham! - "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" during the owl ship sex scene
Cyndi Lauper - "Time After Time" when manhattan's on mars reminiscing about his past
Corey Hart - "Sunglasses at Night" when nite owl is showing laurie his owl visor
The Go-Go's - "Our Lips Are Sealed" during the scene where they agree to keep Veidt's plot a secret

Don't forget "Rape Me" by Nirvana.

by **Ribbons** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:01 pm

Vegeta wrote:to the all the bitching:

- The ending: Seriously was the ending in the book really that fucking great? It always seemed to me that it was a little rushed (everyone, sans Rorschach, just saying "okay" to mass murder in less than a page... Laurie and Dan getting it on at Ozy's fortress afterward). I didn't care the Nixon "statement to the Nation" on the TV instead of multiple news casts... but what are you going to do. Oh and Laurie says "it never stops" instead of Dr. Manhatten... it's not like she didn't say it was something he would say

- The actors: I thought all of the actors were good to excellent. As far as Milan Ackerman goes, she was pretty good, since IMO Laurie was always a bitchy, whiny, pain in the ass, semi-unlikable character.

- Ozy wasn't fleshed out enough: Yeah, he wasn't in the book either.

I would really be more interested in what people who haven't read Watchmen think of it (my guess is "a little hard to follow in parts"). Fanboys tend to be nitpicking douches who's opinions I often dismiss. I look forward to when I take my wife to this flick, since she really doesn't know anything about the book (beyond what I've babbled to her).

Vegeta gives Watchmen four out of five punches:

Easy there, compadre! I don't think anyone who makes plans to see a movie twice in theaters within the first week it comes out should be distancing themselves from "fanboys."

In response to Ozymandias not being fleshed out, you're right that his character was probably the least so in the comic as well, but I think what people mean in that regard is that he comes across as more of a "bad guy" in the movie. Don't get me wrong, I'm surprised by how faithful Snyder was able to keep the story and am thankful that his character's arc is basically left intact, but I do think the way that he was written and the way the other characters were written reacting to him skewed them as less ambiguously "good" and him as less ambiguously "bad" than I guess I would have liked, which is kind of important. And it also ties into something else you mentioned: considering everything he struggled to keep in the film, it would have been relatively easy for Snyder to give Manhattan's "nothing ends" line to Manhattan, rather than just attributing it to him. But I suspect the reason he had Laurie say it to Dan instead was because he didn't want to include the part where Veidt asks Manhattan whether he did the right thing. He also removed what was arguably Veidt's most important speech in the story (Alexander the Great cutting the knot), which doesn't exactly make him look like a good guy, but does add a layer of complexity to his character that the movie seemed to forego. In fairness, I can understand why Snyder would feel like he had to play it both ways, and I'm sure he had to fight to let him get away with it at all; my favorite moment of his was when Dan rushes in to beat the crap out of him and Veidt just... lets him (which was probably only in there because some people in the audience wanted to see someone beat the crap out of him in the first place).

by **caruso_stalker217** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:10 pm

I like how it kinda seems like the reason Veidt killed Comedian is because he burned his map at the Crimebusters meeting.

by **Ribbons** on Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:12 pm

IPAMPILASH

In the 5-hour director's cut we'll see the alternate version of his speech to Rorshach and Dan, where he says "And Blake had to die because, well... that fucker burned my map."

by **TheBaxter** on Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:06 am

Maui wrote:
TheBaxter wrote:if i had my way, the whole movie would have been scored with cheesy 80s pop music

Culture Club "Do You Really Want to Hurt Me" during the comedian-silk spectre rape scene
Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Two Tribes" during any scene with nixon or nukes
Wang Chung - "Everybody Wang Chung Tonight" whenever there's blue wang all over the screen
Madonna - "True Blue" for any other scene with dr. manhattan
Wham! - "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" during the owl ship sex scene
Cyndi Lauper - "Time After Time" when manhattan's on mars reminiscing about his past
Corey Hart - "Sunglasses at Night" when nite owl is showing laurie his owl visor
The Go-Go's - "Our Lips Are Sealed" during the scene where they agree to keep Veidt's plot a secret

Don't forget "Rape Me" by Nirvana.

i'm pretty sure that's not a cheesy 80s pop song.

by **TheBaxter** on Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:10 am

Ribbons wrote:IPAMPILASH

In the 5-hour director's cut we'll see the alternate version of his speech to Rorshach and Dan, where he says "And Blake had to die because, well... that fucker burned my map."

it will make more sense when it's revealed that, on that map, was a giant X which marked the location of the secret pirate treasure horde.
that would piss off anybody enough to blow up a bunch of major cities.

The Zone

(Rating The) WATCHMEN!