The 70s hate everything.

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The 70s hate everything.

Postby GupterPuncher on Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:19 am

DePalma, Scorcese, Coppola, Friedkin, all those guys, they always go on about how crap film is now compared to what they did in the 70s...is it true?

Apart from 'Godfather 1&2' what did these two films make? You still had crap like 'Towering inferno', which isn't that far from the quality of the modern blockbuster, is it?

And what about the remakes back then? Godfather, Sorcerer, Carrie, off the top of my head.

Now you have Fast and Furious 4 and Transformers, but you also have 'There will be blood', the coens, John Sayles etc

The 70s brats still whine, but they're just pissed off they've got no money or power anymore..except the ones who adapted like Spielberg and Lucas and Scorcese...maybe they just don't have much left to offer??

Does anyone else think the 70s protests too much?
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:25 am

I never knew they did, man. Can you give me some references links, or quotes where these 70s guys whined?

As far as I'm concerned, they're right. 70s overall has better quality movies than those of today. Stuff like There Will Be Blood furthermore, I think is great because it has the same qualities or similarities rather, to the style of a 70s movie (not that it should be marked as '70s style' alone though), such as use of long running long shots, he liberties taken with time, use of silence, a general sense of restraint and economy in telling it's story. It reminds me a lot of a Michael Cimino film or even Malick - they're 70s movies that is. :-P Also There Will Be Blood I feel is more of an exception to many films in this era, when back in the 70s, such a film was more common.
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Fievel on Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:52 am

GupterPuncher wrote:DePalma, Scorcese, Coppola, Friedkin, all those guys, they always go on about how crap film is now compared to what they did in the 70s...is it true?

Apart from 'Godfather 1&2' what did these two films make? You still had crap like 'Towering inferno', which isn't that far from the quality of the modern blockbuster, is it?


Even though your second question (Apart from 'Godfather 1&2' what did these two films make?) makes no sense, I'll assume you mean what else did these directors make in the 70s...
-The Conversation
-The French Connection (a movie that couldn't be made now without coming off as a contrived throwback)
-The Exorcist
-Mean Streats
-Apocalypse Now
-Taxi Driver
-The Last Waltz

....and I'm leaving a bunch off.


GupterPuncher wrote:And what about the remakes back then? Godfather, Sorcerer, Carrie, off the top of my head.

Sorcerer is the only remake you listed there.

Every decade has its highs and lows in films, but the 1970s had highs that set some serious standards across the board.
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:53 am

Towering Inferno was prey good from what I remember! A far as disaster movies are concerned, I think that whatever generation they are made, they are rather crap and well cheezy on the whole. I'll take Towering Inferno over Volcano any day though.

I'll say one thing about our present generation. In years or decades to come I reckon many people will look back on this and say "I"m so glad we're out of that awful hyper kinetic multi edit shaky cam Michael Bay style film making now. Man that was shit time for movies (in terms of movies using that technique, that is)".
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Pacino86845 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:21 pm

Also the '70s marked a badly-needed revolution in American cinema... those cranky old fuckers changed a lot back in the day, so they are allowed to shit all over the young guys, even if they're being a bit too harsh.
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby RogueScribner on Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:58 pm

The late '60s and on through the mid '70s showcased a cultural and structural shift in Hollywood. The studio system was dismantled. The ratings code was transformed (allowing more mature content in films). The films born of that transition from "classic" to "modern" filmmaking produced some great art, even some instant classics. But it couldn't last forever. In '77 we got Star Wars, in '78 we got Superman, in '79 we got both Alien and Star Trek and Hollywood subsequently returned to its blockbuster roots. The '70s was a true renaissance in filmmaking the likes of which will probably never be repeated. That's not to say the '70s didn't have its share of crap, or that other eras didn't have their share of quality films, but the '70s marked the last true artistic revolution in film in the USA. Subsequent revolutions have been on the technical scale.
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby so sorry on Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:19 pm

This is a joke thread, right?
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:27 pm

It can't be further away from a joke thread more than the BANDSLAM thread is. You can't get any more serious.

Can someone enlighten ME to what directors sad what comments about the present generation of film making? This is where the discussion lies.
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Pacino86845 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:58 pm

You haven't seen 2 Coppolas 1 Cup?
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:04 pm

No. Is there a link for it you can give me?
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Hermanator X on Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:38 pm

Pacino86845 wrote:You haven't seen 2 Coppolas 1 Cup?


Is that the one where Michael Bay plays the cup?
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Pacino86845 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:21 pm

Michael Bay is IN the cup!
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby magicmonkey on Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:27 pm

RogueScribner wrote: the '70s marked the last true artistic revolution in film in the USA. Subsequent revolutions have been on the technical scale.


The rise of American Independent cinema in the late 80's , early 90's are easy contradictions to that. Soderberg, Tarantino, Anders, Hartley, Jarmusch etc. You could say it peaked with the Palm d'or winning "Pulp Fiction", and we all know what happened for two years following that...
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby RogueScribner on Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:37 am

I wouldn't call the independent boom an artistic revolution in Hollywood. All it did was inspire studios to buy them out and ruin the whole thing. And in the meantime, movies just got louder and dumber. So nothing really changed. It was a niche effect at best.
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby magicmonkey on Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:57 am

RogueScribner wrote:I wouldn't call the independent boom an artistic revolution in Hollywood. All it did was inspire studios to buy them out and ruin the whole thing. And in the meantime, movies just got louder and dumber. So nothing really changed. It was a niche effect at best.


It was huge tho, it launched Miramax, was given a platform by Sundance and in terms of Artistic Revolution it certainly lead to the last great bumper cinematic year of 1999, in terms of Tarantino script speak alone it revolutionised the medium, it also gave us a slew of copycat crap as execs tried to figure out the alchemaic secret. It was the worst time for Hollywood blockbusters too, they sucked so bad, ID4 was like being crapped on from above.
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby GupterPuncher on Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:52 am

Ok, that first post was a shocker, sorry...

I meant to say that Godfather and Carrie were based off books, not remakes, although i posted this on the Empire site and one guy actually checked IMDB for the Carrie listing, just to see if he was seeing things...

The point with it was to try and get a different angle on the 70s. How much of it has been mythologised? Did the brats really have control of Hollywood or an independent arm of it...how much money was actually thrown their way?

Spielberg, Scorcese and Lucas don't whine, but during the last few years Empire has done interviews with DePalma, Friedkin and Coppola where the tone has been 'things were better in the 70s'. Are they just bitter? Btw, i don't have the links but I think they should be archived on Empire online.

And there, the comparison with the 90s...that's what I mean. The revolution there was with American indie and the democratisation[ is that the right word??] of film, so a lot more people could make them...but it was never really the main arena of Hollywood, so was the 70s the same?

Can anyone give me some blockbusters from the 70s? We all know the great films from then, but what about the shit ones?
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby GupterPuncher on Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:55 am

I'm already forgetting what the blockbusters ten years ago were...does this mean in 20-30 years people will be looking back at the 90s and 00s and saying how great it was back then?
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby magicmonkey on Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:21 am

GupterPuncher wrote:Can anyone give me some blockbusters from the 70s? We all know the great films from then, but what about the shit ones?


Well, you gotta remember that the term "blockbuster" was quite different then. I mean originally films were bought as packages by cinemas, you got 5 or so smaller pictures or blocks, thrown in with a Blockbuster picture, this was in the early days of Hollywood. By the 70's, cinema was more of a youth medium, hence the studios were trying to find filmmakers who appealed to this more counter cultural audience. This dated back from the late 60's, when European directors were brought in to try and appeal to counter cultural youth who the studio bosses had no idea how to relate to, for example, you had Antonioni making "Zabriskie Point", a movie which focused on militant college age teens. So... by this time, I'd say that blockbusters were kinda a non-event until "Star Wars"... Which was kinda like giving Nu crack to studio bosses, and Spielberg and Lucas shoveled it up, put it on a silver screen and audiences and studios smoked that shit. So, essentially, in the 70's, shit could get made and find an audience. Art rose above commerce.
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:24 am

Not sure what blockbuster movies have to do with anything. It's not a measure of quality necessarily but maybe there's an interesting point raised whether such a film is more questionable to be of quality then something that isn't out to make so much money?

Godfather at the time was the biggest grossing film ever made. If that means anything to what's been written by you, Gupter?
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby RogueScribner on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:43 am

Coppola also did extensive rewrites to alter it from a mere crime thriller into a generational family drama.
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Re: The 70s hate everything.

Postby TheButcher on Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:22 am

Peter Bart: ‘French Connection’ Anniversary Reminds Industry Of ’70s Devil-May-Care Filmmaking Approach
Peter Bart wrote:“In retrospect, I was wrong to shoot it that way, but there was no other way to get it done.” That’s how director Billy Friedkin last week summed up his famously hair-raising chase scene in the Oscar-winning 1971 film The French Connection. Friedkin was speaking before a rapt audience at the Directors Guild that had gathered for the 45th anniversary of his storied thriller, and he was candid about the challenge of shooting action scenes in the pre-CGI era. Given budget and time restrictions, the chaotic chase scene could not be not carefully prepped or story-boarded; streets were not cleared nor pedestrians pre-warned, and permissions were not received.

The skilled stunt driver careened through the streets, accidentally slamming into first one car, then a truck. “I took human life for granted because I wanted the shot,” Friedkin reflects. “I would never do it again.”

Friedkin’s film today is regarded as a classic cop movie based closely on an actual heroin bust, but its director was determined to prevent it from playing like a balky procedural. With two non-stars (at the time) as its leads, Gene Hackman and Roy Scheider, the film was made for $1.8 million on a 40-day shoot. To fans of chase scenes, Friedkin’s depiction of a car in desperate pursuit of an elevated train surpassed the great contemporary chases in Bullitt and The Italian Job in terms of speed and daring. With bullets flying, cars hurtled through the streets of Brooklyn at 90 miles per hour with first Hackman, then a stunt driver at the wheel.

In his DGA presentation, Friedkin broke down the chase moment-by-moment, detailing why actual pedestrians, not extras, were used in many takes, how passers-by scurried out of the way as cops sped after suspects, guns firing. “No one was hurt but lots of cars were damaged,” the director explained. “And there were close calls.” Friedkin himself shot parts of the chase from the back seat of Hackman’s car.

In many ways, The French Connection exemplified the cowboy-style filmmaking techniques of ’70s Hollywood filmmakers, who seemed eager to defy the rules. 2oth Century Fox was initially reluctant to hire Friedkin, whose early movies, like Boys In The Band or Harold Pinter’s The Birthday Party, displayed no special gift for action. When he finally landed the job, Friedkin hoped to cast an established star like Paul Newman as Popeye Doyle. Friedkin and his producer, Phil D’Antoni, who had earlier produced Bullitt, presented a $2 million budget, but the studio cut it by $500,000, thereby rendering the action scenes even more of a challenge. Still, Friedkin was adamant about avoiding the prospect of a static surveillance film.

“I knew we needed action – two or three good chases,” Friedkin told the DGA audience. “But how many times can you show Hackman and Scheider running after a guy?” Two weeks before the start of production, Friedkin and his producer decided to walk the streets of New York and not stop until they had patched together an exciting chase. In their mind, Hackman, playing an obsessive cop, understood that the bad guy was hiding in an elevated train and he would have to relentlessly follow the train as it sped above him. A creaky elevated line in Brooklyn granted Friedkin last-minute permission to shoot on three weekends but there was no time to deal with police bureaucracy. Extras were hired to serve as passengers on the train but actual pedestrians would be waiting on station platforms, watching the train rush by and witnessing the daring chase on the streets below.

While Friedkin had admired the chases in Bullitt, with cars soaring up and down the steep hills of San Francisco, he was determined to enhance the atmosphere of danger. The streets in Bullitt seemed oddly clear of traffic or pedestrians; Friedkin wanted greater reality, but was alarmed when his stunt car started bouncing off stationary vehicles, forcing his crew to apply emergency repairs to keep the scene (and antos) rolling.

In staging his scene, Friedkin’s subconscious role model was Buster Keaton, whose silent movies were built around daring train chases. “Keaton’s scenes seemed life-threatening,” Friedkin observed. And, of course, neither Keaton nor Friedkin had the present-day luxury of computers and special effects. Neither could retire to the editing room with computer-enhanced footage. They had to rely on what they saw in the streets.

In his DGA presentation, Friedkin reminded his audience he was not defending that style of devil-may- care filmmaking, putting lives at risk to achieve maximum impact. But the demands of ’70s-era filmmaking, with its extraordinary ambitions but limited budgets, produced memorably vivid scenes and performances. In the case of The French Connection, it also resulted in five Oscars including Best Picture.
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