Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Ribbons on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:45 pm

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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Ribbons on Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:50 pm

So I've been putting off writing more about The Last Jedi, just because it would take some time to get everything down and I'm lazy. But before I get into what I didn't like about it, I'd like to express my bafflement over why this movie has become so controversial. I still don't entirely understand why people reacted so violently to it. Is it because Luke had become a disillusioned hermit? I thought that was fine; they didn't have to go that route, but it made sense given the setbacks he'd had. Is it because Rey's parents ended up being a couple of hobos? I don't know why anyone actually cares who Rey's parents are in the first place, but I thought that reveal was kind of brilliant. Is it because the Canto Bight portion of the story was bloated and unnecessary? ...granted, that one's true, but I wouldn't call it "divisive". So what is it about this movie that was so polarizing? I'd love to get some input on this, because I don't get it at all. I felt like the movie continued the New Star Wars trend of being competently made but vaguely unsatisfying.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Fievel on Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:12 pm

It's funny, I'm watching the OT with my kids and while watching A New Hope, I was hitting all sorts of moments/dialogue/performances/etc. that I disliked. But those issues don't detract one bit from my enjoyment of the movie. Is that nostalgia winning out? Or am I just able to let things slide because I'm enjoying the other aspects that much more?

Now, with the prequels, my biggest issues are dialogue and performances. Those issues absolutely plague the Prequel Trilogy, so they actually DO detract from my enjoyment. But, I'm able to appreciate the overall story enough in spite of those issues so that I don't completely hate the films.

A lot of "issues" with The Last Jedi, I can understand - and even agree with to an extent. But none of those issues (that I agree with) take away anything from my enjoyment. And the most divisive issue all seem to stem from expectations - Luke being a crabby hermit, Luke daring to have a brief moment where he thinks he needs to kill Kylo Ren, Snoke's quick death without any explanation of who he is/was, Rey's lack of important parents, Phasma's lack of importance despite her marketing, new Force powers on display (although every movie brings new Force powers), Luke's exit, Rey's abilities, etc. etc.

Take a mountain of expectations that aren't met, add in the world's current black-or-white/no-compromise/us-vs-them mentality, the over-devoted fanbase of Star Wars, and supercharge it with the power of the internet, and you have the mess of divided opinions that we have witnessed.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:37 pm

Or maybe a big % of people genuinely honestly didn't like the film, and those that did are just being condescending rude assholes to them?
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:53 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Or maybe a big % of people genuinely honestly didn't like the film, and those that did are just being condescending rude assholes to them?


bingo


the OT overall IS crap, objectively, and nostalgia is part of why all the flaws don't bother people today. the score is easily the best part by far, plus they were a novelty at the time.

movie scores are underrated and are a huge part of many movies' success or failure, imo. Superman was a crap movie. total crap. but that score was awesome and fooled people into thinking they saw a good movie because of how the score manipulated their emotions. Rocky, mediocre movie elevated to Best Picture status due to the score.

back to Star Wars and why the prequels are despised and the OT is loved. the score. the prequels have a completely uninspirring unmemorable score. nothing to mask the crap. Last Jedi incorporates the original score woven into to its score enough to trigger that nostalgia in some, like Pavlov's dogs, and they don't understand why other people aren't drooling, too.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:45 am

Peven wrote:
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Or maybe a big % of people genuinely honestly didn't like the film, and those that did are just being condescending rude assholes to them?


bingo


the OT overall IS crap, objectively, and nostalgia is part of why all the flaws don't bother people today. the score is easily the best part by far, plus they were a novelty at the time.

movie scores are underrated and are a huge part of many movies' success or failure, imo. Superman was a crap movie. total crap. but that score was awesome and fooled people into thinking they saw a good movie because of how the score manipulated their emotions. Rocky, mediocre movie elevated to Best Picture status due to the score.

back to Star Wars and why the prequels are despised and the OT is loved. the score. the prequels have a completely uninspirring unmemorable score. nothing to mask the crap. Last Jedi incorporates the original score woven into to its score enough to trigger that nostalgia in some, like Pavlov's dogs, and they don't understand why other people aren't drooling, too.


So what you're getting at is fans of THE LAST JEDI are too dumb to know that the movie sucks because it has a few familiar music cues? And fans of the OT are too dumb to know those movies are crap because the music is good?

And the prequels are despised not for the shoddy acting and writing but because the actual BEST thing about those movies was unmemorable and uninspiring, even though Williams's work on that trilogy whips the shit out of anything he's done for the last two films?

And ROCKY won Best Picture because people liked the music? I thought it won because NETWORK sucks.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:13 am

it isn't about being dumb, it is about being human, and emotions affecting perspective. read what I said. I didn't say anything about people being stupid or dumb. it is all about the emotionality of being human and how music taps into that, how a good score can successfully manipulate those emotions to have a real effect on how people see things.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby so sorry on Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:22 pm

Ribbons wrote:So what is it about this movie that was so polarizing?


Because it has Star Wars in the title, plain and simple. Its a Global PowerHouse, and will therefore be over-scrutinized and analyzed no matter how good or bad it is.. And some will be over-protective and defend any movie no matter how good or bad it is.

And to some, like me, it will go from being an over-loved childhood memory to an over-meh adult memory.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Ribbons on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:57 pm

so sorry wrote:
Ribbons wrote:So what is it about this movie that was so polarizing?


Because it has Star Wars in the title, plain and simple. Its a Global PowerHouse, and will therefore be over-scrutinized and analyzed no matter how good or bad it is.. And some will be over-protective and defend any movie no matter how good or bad it is.

And to some, like me, it will go from being an over-loved childhood memory to an over-meh adult memory.


Maybe it really is that simple. It's almost a surreal feeling to be on the outside looking in on this one, because it seems like the whole damn world is filled with Star Wars nerds.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:08 pm

Ribbons wrote: it seems like the whole damn world is filled with Star Wars nerds.


Except girls. Which is the reason for so much singledom and divorces, and domestic murders...

...So I guess in time your statement will be correct.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:36 am

Ribbons wrote:
so sorry wrote:
Ribbons wrote:So what is it about this movie that was so polarizing?


Because it has Star Wars in the title, plain and simple. Its a Global PowerHouse, and will therefore be over-scrutinized and analyzed no matter how good or bad it is.. And some will be over-protective and defend any movie no matter how good or bad it is.

And to some, like me, it will go from being an over-loved childhood memory to an over-meh adult memory.


Maybe it really is that simple. It's almost a surreal feeling to be on the outside looking in on this one, because it seems like the whole damn world is filled with Star Wars nerds.


Disney is raping the childhoods of all those poor fans who grew up on the prequels.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:00 pm

so Lucas molested them as children and now Disney is raping them as adults. oh, the inhumanity of it all :(
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Ribbons on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:43 pm

So anyway, The Last Jedi has two fatal flaws. Both of them are the result, sadly, of good intentions, but they end up making the movie worse instead of better (your mileage may obviously vary on this one).

1) Many if not most of the Big Moments that Rian Johnson intends to have dramatic of thematic significance don't make any goddamn sense. A couple of these have already been hammered home in this thread; one of them being Poe's "arc" of learning not to be an impulsive flyboy who doesn't respect his superiors and thinks of battle in very binary terms. Hey, sure, I get that; that's an interesting mentality to explore. It'd work a lot better if his insubordination weren't a result of the generals keeping crucial information a secret for no reason at all. As it is, I'm on Poe's side. His plan was reckless and desperate, yes; but there literally seemed to be zero alternatives. And then we're supposed to realize what a fool he'd been for not blindly trusting people who make bad decisions all along? No. The other notorious moment came when Rose crashed her plane (or skimmer or whatever they're called in Star Wars) into Finn's right before he could sacrifice himself to stop the Fun-Size Death Star from destroying the Resistance's cave. The reason? "We don't kill what we hate; we save what we love." Blecch. As a moral code, sure, it's a lovely sentiment, but it DOESN'T WORK in this situation. For starters, I'm not sure Rian Johnson realizes that General McPurpleHair just did the exact same thing, which was completely justified and understandable. And now it's not... why? All the people you love are about to be vaporized by that laser you refused to attack for some drippy sentimental reason. It makes no sense. I hope this doesn't sound like nitpicking*; the attempt is not to go 'Oh, I didn't like this scene or that scene' for arbitrary reasons. The point is that Rian Johnson dropped these moments into the narrative without doing the work to earn them, or worse, not realizing that the rest of the film contradicted them.

2) The other key issue is that the Star Wars franchise is not a particularly flexible one. People have been saying that this is the film that finally does something different with Star Wars, and if this is what different looks like, it's a pretty sad state of affairs. The story begins with the Jedi-worshipping resistance on the run as the totalitarian First Order regime tries to wipe them out. As things unfold, we learn that the Jedi are a bunch of stuffy, ritualistic fools and the constant fighting between two sides is pointless and outdated. So how does the story end? With the remains of the Jedi-worshipping resistance on the run as the remains of the First Order regime try to wipe them out. Poe has to learn that living for war is bad, but what he basically learns is that sometimes you have to run away so you can live to battle another day. The "hope" that Luke inspires at the end of the film takes the form of a small child picking up a broom and dreaming of being a warrior himself one day. And the dangling threads left for Episode IX to pick up can only result in a fight to the death, particularly with JJ "Starkiller" Abrams at the helm. This is the REAL problem with turning Star Wars into a neverending franchise that keeps going and going until we're all dead: it's all about The War. And if The War ends, then the series ends. So things can never really change all that much, or continually have to be changed back, to keep things status quo. And it took the installment that tried to change things to prove how fundamentally unchangeable Star Wars really is (On a sidenote, I can't wait until Rey is a disillusioned old hermit in 25 years who needs to help Casino Bight Stable Boy fight the Second Order).


*so this moment I didn't like MAY be on the nitpicky side, but I really hate the way they handled Snoke's death. If I had my druthers they wouldn't have killed him at all, so that could be influencing my opinion, but the "twist" that Kylo Ren was going to turn on Snoke and murder him was so obvious that I felt like they bent over backwards to assure you that he definitely *wouldn't* because it would be too obvious, only for the twist to be that the thing everyone knew was going to happen did indeed happen. It was a truly bizarre scene.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Fievel on Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:46 pm

Wars have never ended on Earth. Someone always thinks that they, or their way of living, are best and are willing to kill or die to protect/enforce it. It's reasonable to think that the Star Wars universe is the same.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:47 am

one of the things i thought could breathe new life into this franchise was taking a more nuanced and evolved view of the Force. that's what i was hoping would come of Luke's "the Jedi have to end" quote when we first heard it in the trailers. i thought they could build on that concept from the prequels, which showed that the Jedi's view of the force was so rigid and one-dimensional that it led to their downfall. the Sith may be evil and all, but they definitely had a point about the Jedi being dogmatic and blind to the true nature of the Force. then there are parts of the franchise, like Rebels, introducing Force-sensitive creatures or characters who are neutral, neither dark- nor light-aligned. it all seemed to be pointing to a more complicated understanding of the Force instead of the simplistic, good vs. evil, light vs. dark binary view held by the Jedi and Sith. with the Sith gone, and now the Jedi essentially gone, Rey and future force-users could move beyond that simplistic approach. that's what i hoped we'd see with hermit Luke and his seeming abandonment of the Jedi and disavowal of their ways, but the film never really went there, and seemed to return to a more black-and-white view by the end, which was disappointing because it seems to go backwards.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:05 am

I really like this post ^^, and yes there could have been a more interesting explorative examination of the Force and where it leads, where it could evolve. But it didn't happen in this film, which leaves us with that all too familiar thought 'the next film will do that' which has just left us with dashed hopes before. So who knows?

What The Last Jedi did end up doing was to irritatedly have Rey just solidifying her stance with the Light and Kylo turning to the Dark side even more after all their struggles earlier in the film into a more greyer or more alternative path. So that potential for a developed path in the Force was done away with right at the end of their final scene together at least in this movie.

Anyway Fuck you Rian and Fuck you George for never letting us know what YOU had in mind for these films and fucking it up oh so perfectly and Fuck you blonde beautiful girl for going up to my mate in a bar and asking him if he was married before fucking him later in his flat forcing me to go home as I couldn't take that confidence blow which just crushed me, before I came home to this place to find SOME shitty comfort with so called friends here posting an Atomic Kitten video for me that I had never seen before. So Fuck You world and God, that's why I said that last Fuck You because the gloves should be off for all the shit that you give me. No Light, just Dark, and no I don't say that to make my last lines relevant, I just post them because Fuck You. Fuck You! You have to be nicer to me. You have to be nicer to me.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:34 pm

it had to go backward because the Star Warsians can't handle a true arc existing within the StarWars universe. they require a perpetual narrative cycle of the same story being told over and over again only using slightly different characters each time. that way there is no anxiety over how things will end. :-P

I am holding on to a sliver of optimism that the little kid who uses the Force to pick up the broom at the end of Last Jedi signifies a true paradigm shift in how The Force is going to be handled going forward, and how that may be used to tell stories that are more relatable and nuanced with their themes and messages. the raw material is there to make Life of Pi type movies that provide adventure and action and heroism but also something more, something for the soul. the problem is the the core fans who buy their kids the SW sheets and comforter set, the the fans who think that taking their kids to see SW is some sort of real coming of age moment for them out of a sense of nostalgia, they have a childlike view of SW themselves and truly can't handle any new stories being told within the SW reality that don't follow the established coda.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby caruso_stalker217 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:40 am

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:What The Last Jedi did end up doing was to irritatedly have Rey just solidifying her stance with the Light and Kylo turning to the Dark side even more after all their struggles earlier in the film into a more greyer or more alternative path. So that potential for a developed path in the Force was done away with right at the end of their final scene together at least in this movie.


The biggest missed opportunity of this film was not having Rey and Kylo join forces (I mean this both in the sense that they should have teamed up also in the implied metaphorical sexual way of joining "Forces" because STAR WARS [they should immediately have fucked]) and toss the whole Dark/Light thing right in the trash.

Of course, that wouldnt really have been earned, as much as I would like to have seen it happen. Although Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver give good performances in the film, there is absolutely no fucking reason Rey should give a single fuck about Kylo, considering how busted up she was over him FUCKING MURDERING HIS OWN FATHER.

While we're on the subject of Rey and this film not making any sense, outside of a mention or two from Finn, does anyone in the movie actually comment on her existence? From what I recall of THE FORCE AWAKENS, the supposed entire point of that film (I say supposed because that movie also didn't knoe what the fuck it was about) was to find Luke Skywalker so he could save the fucking Resistance or whatever.

I mean, that was supposedly the whole point of that movie. Even the First Order wanted him found because of his supposed importance. And at the end of that film they sent some girl, who is literally some nobody from the ass-end of nowhere, to find this super-duper important guy who will SAVE EVERYBODY... and in the subsequent film NO ONE WILL EXPRESS ANY INTEREST IN THAT SHIT WHATSOEVER.

No scene of Leia going, "Hmm, I wonder how that whole Getting Luke Back To Save The Resistance thing is going. I sure hope Ree or whatever her name is brings Luke back in time to FUCKING SAVE THE GALXY"!1

So that's an issue I have as well.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:02 am

i think, for the Resistance, pretty much the whole film after the initial battle is consumed with them fleeing for their survival. so as important as finding Luke may have seemed, when they're in imminent danger of being wiped out of existence immediately, Rey's mission kind of shifts understandably to the back burner for a while.

and then for Snoke, he created the telepathic link between Kylo and Rey specifically to use it to find out where Luke Skywalker was. as wacky as that plan seems (and i'm still confuzzled about how he could create that telepathic link to Rey and why, if he could do that, he didn't simply use it himself to find out where she was), it shows that he was still extremely interested in finding Luke.
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Ribbons on Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:24 pm

I'm not usually a fan of HISHE, but this video seemed too on-point not to share:

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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby Peven on Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:46 pm

that was sweet. "are you a grandfather, too?!" :lol:
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Re: Star Wars: THE LAST JEDI (Now w/ Reviews)

Postby TheBaxter on Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:15 pm

Ribbons wrote:I'm not usually a fan of HISHE, but this video seemed too on-point not to share:



i agree... Last Jedi definitely would have been better if Luke Skywalker had been played by Jack Nicholson.
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