TheBaxter wrote:he's kinda like michael cera in a way. which makes me want to punch him in the face.
Fievel wrote:TheBaxter wrote:he's kinda like michael cera in a way. which makes me want to punch him in the face.
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How true!!
But thankfully Stoltz (who is 50 now! WTF?!?!?) is a much better actor (not great, but better than Cera) and has showed the world much more range than Cera likely ever will.
Bloo wrote:Fievel wrote:TheBaxter wrote:he's kinda like michael cera in a way. which makes me want to punch him in the face.
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How true!!
But thankfully Stoltz (who is 50 now! WTF?!?!?) is a much better actor (not great, but better than Cera) and has showed the world much more range than Cera likely ever will.
and now directs episodes of GLEE
Peven wrote:...glorified date rapey guys and shallow, self-absorbed girls, and justified treating the Ducky's of the world as doormats to be taken for granted and laughed at.
so sorry wrote:Peven wrote:...glorified date rapey guys and shallow, self-absorbed girls, and justified treating the Ducky's of the world as doormats to be taken for granted and laughed at.
So...you basically just described high school.
Peven wrote:Hughes is one of the most over-rated directors ever, he glorified date rapey guys and shallow, self-absorbed girls, and justified treating the Ducky's of the world as doormats to be taken for granted and laughed at. what a douche
Ribbons wrote:Peven wrote:Hughes is one of the most over-rated directors ever, he glorified date rapey guys and shallow, self-absorbed girls, and justified treating the Ducky's of the world as doormats to be taken for granted and laughed at. what a douche
In Hughes's defense wasn't Molly Ringwald the one who vetoed ending up with Ducky at the end of Pretty in Pink?
so sorry wrote:Peven wrote:...glorified date rapey guys and shallow, self-absorbed girls, and justified treating the Ducky's of the world as doormats to be taken for granted and laughed at.
So...you basically just described high school, so perhaps he was on to something.
so sorry wrote:I watched Sixteen Candles last night (one of my favs from the 80s).
One of the things that really struck me this viewing though: the kinda overt date-rapeyness of the entire post-party situation between hunk Jake Ryan and geek Farmer Ted.
And the use of the derogatory term "stick" a couple of times too.
TheBaxter wrote:Molly Ringwald was uncomfortable watching Breakfast Club with her pre-teen daughter
really interesting article that touches on both the good and the bad in Hughes' films (and even goes in-depth on that date-rapey sixteen candles scene).
one thing that sticks out about scenes like that, or the harrassment and implied sexual assault in breakfast club, is that, while that stuff did happen and still does happen a lot, the really troubling part of it is how those female characters were written to react to it in a way that demonstrates they welcomed or enjoyed being treated that way. the girl in 16 candles isn't bothered about having had passed-out drunken sex, instead she says she thinks she enjoyed it and then kisses anthony michael hall after. and in breakfast club, after being harrassed and possibly assualted over the course of a day, molly ringwald ends up with the character who's been victimizing her. it reinforces the male fantasy that women want to be taken advantage of by a stronger, "assertive" male. even pretty in pink, though there's not as much overt assault-like behavior, still reinforces that fantasy when molly ringwald's character goes back to the guy who basically dumped her and treated her like shit the whole film. not only reinforces it (because sometimes women DO go back to abusive men) but celebrates it.
however, i also feel like that is not solely a reflection of John Hughes, but is a reflection of that whole time. and those kinds of deep-seated attitudes have been around in films and entertainment a long time. movies and popular art reflect the times and the society in which they were created, and there are plenty of other films that depict women in subservient ways. as bad as the date-rape 16 candles scene seems, you've got other films like revenge of the nerds where one character basically tricks a girl into having sex with him by putting on a mask and pretending to be her boyfriend, and when he reveals himself, instead of her being horrified at being raped, she becomes his girlfriend. you can come up with plenty other examples. it's too easy to just blame individual filmmakers for issues that were, and frankly still are, pervasive through society. it's more constructive to learn from it so we can more easily recognize it and call it out when it happens today.
TheBaxter wrote:Molly Ringwald was uncomfortable watching Breakfast Club with her pre-teen daughter
really interesting article that touches on both the good and the bad in Hughes' films (and even goes in-depth on that date-rapey sixteen candles scene).
one thing that sticks out about scenes like that, or the harrassment and implied sexual assault in breakfast club, is that, while that stuff did happen and still does happen a lot, the really troubling part of it is how those female characters were written to react to it in a way that demonstrates they welcomed or enjoyed being treated that way. the girl in 16 candles isn't bothered about having had passed-out drunken sex, instead she says she thinks she enjoyed it and then kisses anthony michael hall after. and in breakfast club, after being harrassed and possibly assualted over the course of a day, molly ringwald ends up with the character who's been victimizing her. it reinforces the male fantasy that women want to be taken advantage of by a stronger, "assertive" male. even pretty in pink, though there's not as much overt assault-like behavior, still reinforces that fantasy when molly ringwald's character goes back to the guy who basically dumped her and treated her like shit the whole film. not only reinforces it (because sometimes women DO go back to abusive men) but celebrates it.
however, i also feel like that is not solely a reflection of John Hughes, but is a reflection of that whole time. and those kinds of deep-seated attitudes have been around in films and entertainment a long time. movies and popular art reflect the times and the society in which they were created, and there are plenty of other films that depict women in subservient ways. as bad as the date-rape 16 candles scene seems, you've got other films like revenge of the nerds where one character basically tricks a girl into having sex with him by putting on a mask and pretending to be her boyfriend, and when he reveals himself, instead of her being horrified at being raped, she becomes his girlfriend. you can come up with plenty other examples. it's too easy to just blame individual filmmakers for issues that were, and frankly still are, pervasive through society. it's more constructive to learn from it so we can more easily recognize it and call it out when it happens today.
so sorry wrote:...
so sorry wrote:Well said (and well expanded on to what I briefly touched on).
I do see a difference between the three Molly movies you referenced. Sixteen candles is as much a comedy as it is a drama. Not that what happens at the end is funny, but it give the sense that The Geek ending up with the prom queen would actually never happen in a dramatic "real life" portrayal.
Breakfast Club and Pretty in Pink, however, are not intended to be funny, so the notion that the lead female character still ends up with the previous jerk-guy, while annoying and stupid as a viewer, is totally believable as a human being.
And in my head, the Preppy Girl in Breakfast Club doesn't end up being with the Fuck Up guy when school starts on monday. They just exchange knowing glances as they pass in the hallway, and continue on with their established social classes (again, something that is VERY real life).
Peven wrote: i don't feel sorry for Molly Ringwald's character at all in 16 Candles, she is a spoiled, arrogant, little twit.
Peven wrote:but Hughes frames him as a good guy
Peven wrote:he's an asshole.
so sorry wrote:Peven wrote: i don't feel sorry for Molly Ringwald's character at all in 16 Candles, she is a spoiled, arrogant, little twit.
That's a little harsh...she's a just-16 year old privledged girl. Emotionally she's clearly not mature enough. Give her a break!
so sorry wrote:Peven wrote:he's an asshole.
True!
TheBaxter wrote:i mean... we're talking about SIXTEEN CANDLES. it's a silly goofy comedy. now, if you want to tear apart Breakfast Club, because it actually has pretensions of being a "serious" examination of teen cliques and stereotypes and whatnot, fine. shred that thing to bits. but it seems a bit silly to apply a deep character analysis of a movie that features characters named Farmer Ted and Long Duk Dong. so maybe Ringwald's character was a privileged spoiled shallow bitch, or maybe she was just a girl trying to figure things out in the face of surging hormones, or maybe both. doesn't make the movie any less funny either way.
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:I also think Planes Trains and Automobiles is Upper Class White Collar 1st World Problems condescending BULLSHIT!
Oooh poor me, I got a beautiful wife, family, great job and my life is so SHIT because it would be a HARROWING TRAGEDY if I don't get home to eat a big motherfucking Turkey for Christm... sorry, UK people, Thanksgiving!
Yeah I know there's parallels to how Steve Martin isn't having real problems like John Candy does in this film, but as this movie's narrative really agrees with Steve's sentiments and shares the same feelings and importance as he does and does kinda think "Fuck this guy" at Del Griffith in comparison, I think this film is quite up it's own arse and snobbish and don't really give a fuck about REAL problems and how people in Africa are DYING on Christmas Day! "Tonight thank God it's them instead of you?" Those side parted hairstyles middle age silver haired snobs looking at their oh so perfect family don't give one flying fuck about those poor skinny black people one bit. At least those Ethiopians have a lower body studly % than you big bellied boring mature wankers that don't even call my lonely ass self out for a pint anymore! I hope you're oh so perfect daughter grows up to become a whore and your oh so good looking son gets done for DUI and goes to jail for life shaming your name!!!
JOHN CANDY'S DEAD DAMNIT! DEAD! AND HIS BROTHER IS FUCKING A MERMAID FISH! HAVE SOME RESPECT!!!
Ribbons wrote:I or Sixteen Candles (which, granted, I haven't seen)
so sorry wrote:Ribbons wrote:I or Sixteen Candles (which, granted, I haven't seen)
Please rectify this situation posthaste!
so sorry wrote:Ribbons wrote:I or Sixteen Candles (which, granted, I haven't seen)
Please rectify this situation posthaste!
Ribbons wrote:It's funny, because even though John Hughes movies are clearly a product of the '80s, I do think in retrospect they introduced elements of humanity to the comedy and teen-comedy genre that were previously lacking. Movies like The Breakfast Club or Sixteen Candles (which, granted, I haven't seen) may have some of the typical hallmarks of raunchy, sex-crazed fare like Porky's, but are also making a concerted effort to steer the story in another direction. And while it's fair to point out that the characters in movies like Ferris Bueller's Day Off or Planes, Trains and Automobiles (or Home Alone, if you want to count that as Hughes's) are all well-off and wealthy, there's a class consciousness that permeates a lot of his work. Kirks may mock Steve Martin's character in PTA, but his self-absorption and complete obliviousness to the struggles of the man sitting next to him are kind of the point. And Vacation is a darkly perfect comedy about a man of little means trying desperately to provide his family with a piece of the American Dream that remains just out of reach. These characters are all middle-class or lower-middle-class at worst, and sure, there are starving kids in Africa, but that tension nonetheless elevates the material -- which becomes painfully obvious compared to the Brat Pack's later attempts to recapture lightning in a bottle with empty garbage like St. Elmo's Fire. I don't know if Hughes is a genius or an auteur or whatever, but there was a certain something to the movies he made that Hollywood tried and failed to recreate.
Peven wrote:and NO, these kids aren't all middle-class or lower-class, Hughes movie's have all sorts of wealthy privileged white people in them. but since you haven't even seen the fucking movies you wouldn't know that, would you.
Ribbons wrote:And while it's fair to point out that the characters in movies like Ferris Bueller's Day Off or Planes, Trains and Automobiles (or Home Alone, if you want to count that as Hughes's) are all well-off and wealthy, there's a class consciousness that permeates a lot of his work.
Ribbons wrote:Oh, Peven.
I haven't seen Sixteen Candles or Pretty in Pink, no, which I made a joke about before. I've seen every other John Hughes though (besides for Uncle Buck), as well as Porky's and St. Elmo's Fire, which I mentioned. You'll notice that I included neither of those two movies in my discussion about class.Peven wrote:and NO, these kids aren't all middle-class or lower-class, Hughes movie's have all sorts of wealthy privileged white people in them. but since you haven't even seen the fucking movies you wouldn't know that, would you.Ribbons wrote:And while it's fair to point out that the characters in movies like Ferris Bueller's Day Off or Planes, Trains and Automobiles (or Home Alone, if you want to count that as Hughes's) are all well-off and wealthy, there's a class consciousness that permeates a lot of his work.
I do, in fact, know that. I said that all the "poor" characters are lower-middle class AT WORST, not that every single character in every film was. Please try harder next time.
Peven wrote:and i did that without any of the condescension you rely on, either.
but since you haven't even seen the fucking movies you wouldn't know that, would you.I hope you didn't pull a muscle as much as you were stretching to make excuses and rationalizations for a rich, white, male director who made misogynistic movies.
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