so sorry wrote:the io9.com article I read every monday that breaks down GoT episodes, the commenters were having a field day with Euron's magical fleet. Dany and two dragons, and a small fleet of Unsullied are within view of King's Landing then BOOM out of nowhere a fleet of Ironborn magically appear (they were hiding in a cove!) and blow the fuck out of them. With ballista bolts. Bolts destroy ships too apparently. Three shots at a (admittedly wounded) dragon, and one belly shot, one neck shot, one head shot. That's some fine ass marksmanship right there.
TheBaxter wrote:i will say, seeing some of the other reaction to the last couple episodes in particular, makes me feel less alone in feeling that this show is tanking. last season had its issues but at least it was mostly fun and exciting enough to overlook them. this season, 2/3 in now, and it's like, they went away for 2 years and to finish things up over 6 episodes, and we end up with THIS? at this point, i'm just expecting mostly mindless spectacle and unearned shock moments, and pretty much given up on the complexity and greater themes that were a part of the earlier seasons.
TheBaxter wrote: how easy would it have been for her to fly up or around, out of range of the spears, get behind the fleet and burn all those ship up from behind?
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Normally when a film wants to suggest that a character has died, but really hasn't, it kinda shortchanges the emotion of their death and never does a full on complete death scene with more time devoted to seeing that character die and with other people's reactions - and then later on that character reveals itself to still be alive. Which is how Rhaegar's 'death' felt here.
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote: - Oh yeah, and when Rhaegar comes back - he'll be wearing motherfucking ARMOUR!
so sorry wrote:TheBaxter wrote:i will say, seeing some of the other reaction to the last couple episodes in particular, makes me feel less alone in feeling that this show is tanking. last season had its issues but at least it was mostly fun and exciting enough to overlook them. this season, 2/3 in now, and it's like, they went away for 2 years and to finish things up over 6 episodes, and we end up with THIS? at this point, i'm just expecting mostly mindless spectacle and unearned shock moments, and pretty much given up on the complexity and greater themes that were a part of the earlier seasons.
I second that emotion. If there's one huge upside for me, personally, its that one of my fears a few years ago was the show ruining my enjoyment of the final books. There's now way in hell GRRM publishes the remaining novels with this level of writing or pacing. Shit, the only thing they may have in common at the end is who sits the iron throne, and practically nothing similar of how he/she/it got there.
Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:I'm betting that Rhaegar is not dead. Who's with me, or gonna get burned for disagreeing?
TheBaxter wrote:Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Normally when a film wants to suggest that a character has died, but really hasn't, it kinda shortchanges the emotion of their death and never does a full on complete death scene with more time devoted to seeing that character die and with other people's reactions - and then later on that character reveals itself to still be alive. Which is how Rhaegar's 'death' felt here.
you'd think that. but this show obviously doesn't consider the nonhuman characters worthy of the same respect. just look how they treated Ghost.
Al Shut wrote:Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:I'm betting that Rhaegar is not dead. Who's with me, or gonna get burned for disagreeing?
WTF ... oh wait you're talking about the dragon.The original Rhaegar not being dead would be a twist I didn't see coming.
TheBaxter wrote:Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Normally when a film wants to suggest that a character has died, but really hasn't, it kinda shortchanges the emotion of their death and never does a full on complete death scene with more time devoted to seeing that character die and with other people's reactions - and then later on that character reveals itself to still be alive. Which is how Rhaegar's 'death' felt here.
you'd think that. but this show obviously doesn't consider the nonhuman characters worthy of the same respect. just look how they treated Ghost.
That only means that by Kirk's logic Ghost could return too. As a Ghost ?!?
TheBaxter wrote:Al Shut wrote:Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:I'm betting that Rhaegar is not dead. Who's with me, or gonna get burned for disagreeing?
WTF ... oh wait you're talking about the dragon.The original Rhaegar not being dead would be a twist I didn't see coming.
TheBaxter wrote:Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Normally when a film wants to suggest that a character has died, but really hasn't, it kinda shortchanges the emotion of their death and never does a full on complete death scene with more time devoted to seeing that character die and with other people's reactions - and then later on that character reveals itself to still be alive. Which is how Rhaegar's 'death' felt here.
you'd think that. but this show obviously doesn't consider the nonhuman characters worthy of the same respect. just look how they treated Ghost.
That only means that by Kirk's logic Ghost could return too. As a Ghost ?!?
in the finale, we'll find out they've ALL been ghosts the whole time... except the White Walkers, who were actually all living, and were just trying to bring all their friends back from the dead.
Peven wrote:so I guess you guys won't bother with watching the last 2 episodes since the show has gone to total shit now. right?![]()
of COURSE you'll watch, otherwise how could you bitch and complain and try act all smug and superior afterwards as if you could have done so much better, as can be shown by your past work.
![]()
middle-aged teenagers
Peven wrote:so I guess you guys won't bother with watching the last 2 episodes since the show has gone to total shit now. right?![]()
of COURSE you'll watch, otherwise how could you bitch and complain and try act all smug and superior afterwards as if you could have done so much better, as can be shown by your past work.
![]()
middle-aged teenagers
TheBaxter wrote:so sorry wrote:TheBaxter wrote:i will say, seeing some of the other reaction to the last couple episodes in particular, makes me feel less alone in feeling that this show is tanking. last season had its issues but at least it was mostly fun and exciting enough to overlook them. this season, 2/3 in now, and it's like, they went away for 2 years and to finish things up over 6 episodes, and we end up with THIS? at this point, i'm just expecting mostly mindless spectacle and unearned shock moments, and pretty much given up on the complexity and greater themes that were a part of the earlier seasons.
I second that emotion. If there's one huge upside for me, personally, its that one of my fears a few years ago was the show ruining my enjoyment of the final books. There's now way in hell GRRM publishes the remaining novels with this level of writing or pacing. Shit, the only thing they may have in common at the end is who sits the iron throne, and practically nothing similar of how he/she/it got there.
the irony is that the books have the opposite problem. whereas the show became more streamlined and rushed, the books became too bloated and overly complicated. so much so that now Martin seems unable to figure out how to tie together all the threads into a coherent ending, hence his endlessly delaying finishing off the series.
still, it's clear now that the success of the series was thanks in large part to Martin and the framework he laid out in the early books, and the showrunners were just the lucky beneficiaries of his work. since they've moved past the books and been forced to tell their own version of the story, all the meticulous planning and attention to detail that Martin invested in the series has been lost, and it's become clear they don't have the talent or ability that Martin has to tell a cohesive story. that's why things like the distance and travel times between Westerosi kingdoms matters. the fact that the showrunners can so casually dismiss the importance of those kinds of details, just so they can hurry the show along and get to the next big plot point, is a clear difference from the care and attention to detail that Martin exhibits, it's importance to making this world as believable as possible so that when the unbelievable DOES happen (like dragons being born or Jon Snow returning from the dead) it's that much easier to accept. the showrunners attitude towards those points shows they don't understand what it is that makes the books, and the earlier seasons of the show based on them, so successful. and HBO shares in the blame for deciding to rush this thing to an ending, instead of giving it the time necessary to construct a satisfying conclusion. whatever their reasons, i'm worried it has resulted in an ending for the series that will be unsatisfying, disappointing, and will taint much of what was so good about this show in the beginning.
Ribbons wrote:And we haven't even gotten to the GODDAMN COFFEE CUP:
Peven wrote:so anytime something is left in frame that isn't supposed to be there that means the movie/show is trash and the people who made it were just plain lazy....interesting.![]()
this is supposed to be a board populated with people who love movies and yet there is no recognition that mistakes like the coffee cup are not that uncommon, even in productions that are award-winning. you can find a plethora of examples of them on youtube. Raiders of the Lost Ark left the reflection of the cobra during the tomb scene in the final cut. gee, i guess Spielberg was a real hack who didn't care about the quality of the movie. it is pathetic how little appreciation or awareness is shown here for what goes in to producing a quality movie or tv series.
Peven wrote:so anytime something is left in frame that isn't supposed to be there that means the movie/show is trash and the people who made it were just plain lazy....interesting.![]()
this is supposed to be a board populated with people who love movies and yet there is no recognition that mistakes like the coffee cup are not that uncommon, even in productions that are award-winning. you can find a plethora of examples of them on youtube. Raiders of the Lost Ark left the reflection of the cobra during the tomb scene in the final cut. gee, i guess Spielberg was a real hack who didn't care about the quality of the movie. it is pathetic how little appreciation or awareness is shown here for what goes in to producing a quality movie or tv series.
TheBaxter wrote:one of those dragon spears catches her and sends her flying off Drogon to her death.
Wolfpack wrote:You can cut the sexual tension on this message board with a Valyrian steel dagger.
TheBaxter wrote:Cersei is so determined to hold on to power in King's Landing, she's apparently willing to move mountains
Ribbons wrote:It'll be interesting to see if next week's episode even attempts to explain what was going through Daenerys's mind when she decided to murder an entire city's worth of people for funsies, or if we're just supposed to be rooting for Arya to merc her now because bitches get got. I'm still hoping for some context and closure in the wake of what happened. My initial reaction is revulsion at the way they handled this twist. Subverting expectations is a staple of GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire series, but it never once felt cheap and manufactured before tonight.
so sorry wrote:We all saw the obvious Dany going all Mad Queen, so that wasn't a surprise (unless you were expecting the surprise to be her NOT going psycho). What I didn't get was why her decision was to literally lay waste to the entire city, instead of just flying straight to the Red Keep and destroying Cersei and the Lannister forces (and yes, the innocents she had in the Keep). How will they attempt to explain Dany's reasoning of "burn them all" instead of "burn the ones who defy me"?
so sorry wrote:Interesting to see the small pockets of wildfire going up around the city... Cersei's last revenge?
so sorry wrote:Cleganebowl: just too worked up over the past few seasons (from fans perspective too), there was no way it was going to really deliver. It was cool, the effects were cool, but there's just no way Sandor should have been able to survive that amount of punishment and still have the energy to throw a mountain of a man (an undead man) thru a stone wall (yes, a structurally weakened wall). It was a meh moment for me, outside of the effects. I did like how Cersei realized she was in no danger at that moment, and was like "peace out bros". I would have preferred Qyburn to get a more grisly death.
so sorry wrote:The Golden Company: man, I really thought my theory that they would turn on Cersei would come true. Instead they just... well, just died. So much for the greatest sellswords.
so sorry wrote:The Dothraki: wtf, were did they all come from? Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. In the coming attactions it looks like there were a few thousand of them still, same with the Unsullied. All these naval battles that they lost, and yet there are still thousands left?
so sorry wrote:Jon: I don't know what to say... if he loves his queen, and LOVES his queen, then why not go all in and just shack up with her. The incest thing isn't holding water in this scenario.
so sorry wrote:Jamie and Cersei: so it only took an entire city to burn in front of her, her unstoppable bodyguard to abandon her, and the walls to crumble around her before she had a change of heart. Went out with a whimper. Unsatisfying death for both of them.
so sorry wrote:Jamie and Euron: did someone pull a prank on Euron and switch out his blade for one of those dummy daggers that doesn't really work? Cause two 12 inch dagger wounds to either side of your abdominal cavity I think would do a little more damage than that!
don't worry, he will. you don't think they'd leave the last dark-skinned character alive now, do you?so sorry wrote:Greyworm: OMG just fucking DIE ALREADY.
so sorry wrote:I can't see how they can possibly wrap this up in one more show, so my theory is that the show will end with Dany on the Iron throne, but no one on her side, and Jon back in the north, preparing to lead a new unified Westeros against her. Fade to black??????
so sorry wrote:I don't even know where to begin....
We all saw the obvious Dany going all Mad Queen, so that wasn't a surprise (unless you were expecting the surprise to be her NOT going psycho). What I didn't get was why her decision was to literally lay waste to the entire city, instead of just flying straight to the Red Keep and destroying Cersei and the Lannister forces (and yes, the innocents she had in the Keep). How will they attempt to explain Dany's reasoning of "burn them all" instead of "burn the ones who defy me"?
The power of this dragon's breath... Jeebus, that was insane. It looked cool, don't get me wrong, but wtf with him being able to blow shit up!
Interesting to see the small pockets of wildfire going up around the city... Cersei's last revenge?
Cleganebowl: just too worked up over the past few seasons (from fans perspective too), there was no way it was going to really deliver. It was cool, the effects were cool, but there's just no way Sandor should have been able to survive that amount of punishment and still have the energy to throw a mountain of a man (an undead man) thru a stone wall (yes, a structurally weakened wall). It was a meh moment for me, outside of the effects. I did like how Cersei realized she was in no danger at that moment, and was like "peace out bros". I would have preferred Qyburn to get a more grisly death.
The Golden Company: man, I really thought my theory that they would turn on Cersei would come true. Instead they just... well, just died. So much for the greatest sellswords.
The Dothraki: wtf, were did they all come from? Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. In the coming attactions it looks like there were a few thousand of them still, same with the Unsullied. All these naval battles that they lost, and yet there are still thousands left?
Jon: I don't know what to say... if he loves his queen, and LOVES his queen, then why not go all in and just shack up with her. The incest thing isn't holding water in this scenario.
Tyrion and Varys: did Varys get his treasonous messages out of Dragonstone before he got crispy? I'm sure they did. Tyrion ratting him out, that was well acted. Always liked these guys together. Too bad one of them had to be on the wrong side.
Tyrion and Jamie: maybe the best scene of the episode. Touching.
Jamie and Cersei: so it only took an entire city to burn in front of her, her unstoppable bodyguard to abandon her, and the walls to crumble around her before she had a change of heart. Went out with a whimper. Unsatisfying death for both of them.
Jamie and Euron: did someone pull a prank on Euron and switch out his blade for one of those dummy daggers that doesn't really work? Cause two 12 inch dagger wounds to either side of your abdominal cavity I think would do a little more damage than that!
Greyworm: OMG just fucking DIE ALREADY.
Arya: I don't know, I wasn't feeling her change of feelings. From cold hearted killer, to what, a compassionate human being? Seems like her last move will be to kill Dany now, unless Jon does.
I can't see how they can possibly wrap this up in one more show, so my theory is that the show will end with Dany on the Iron throne, but no one on her side, and Jon back in the north, preparing to lead a new unified Westeros against her. Fade to black??????
Peven wrote:I want to know why you hate children so much, bax. this show has treated kids pretty brutally and yet not a peep from you about it. you must really hate children. i mean, that is, if we're going to use the same simple-minded 14 yr old teenage logic you're using to claim the show is racist and misogynistic. you're fine with the explanation given for why the Mad King went mad after being a level headed ruler for years but when Dany goes mad it must be because of a misogynist writer?
you're predictable if nothing else, predictably simple and shallow-minded
you will still be there to watch the final episode, though, won't you? even though you have proclaimed how despicable the writers are and how terrible the message is you'll be there watching.![]()
Al Shut wrote:I wonder if the show has a tendency to actively not taking the route of the books
TheBaxter wrote:Al Shut wrote:I wonder if the show has a tendency to actively not taking the route of the books
fingers crossed.
so sorry wrote:TheBaxter wrote:Al Shut wrote:I wonder if the show has a tendency to actively not taking the route of the books
fingers crossed.
Seriously.
Peven wrote:so sorry wrote:TheBaxter wrote:Al Shut wrote:I wonder if the show has a tendency to actively not taking the route of the books
fingers crossed.
Seriously.
I don't know, in all seriousness, how likely do you think it is that Martin's version is going to be THAT far off of the version we are seeing now when it comes to major plot points? if his has an alternate ending where Dany winds up on top in a predictable, goody goody, cliché, fairy tale ending that satisfies the desires of her fans then I will be surprised. possible, but i'd be surprised. I expect more from him.
so sorry wrote:Peven wrote:so sorry wrote:TheBaxter wrote:Al Shut wrote:I wonder if the show has a tendency to actively not taking the route of the books
fingers crossed.
Seriously.
I don't know, in all seriousness, how likely do you think it is that Martin's version is going to be THAT far off of the version we are seeing now when it comes to major plot points? if his has an alternate ending where Dany winds up on top in a predictable, goody goody, cliché, fairy tale ending that satisfies the desires of her fans then I will be surprised. possible, but i'd be surprised. I expect more from him.
No I expect Dany to be twisted by the end of the novels, but he certainly doesn't have to "rush" the story like the show. I think that's what we all mean, ultimately the same outcome, but with a much more thought out, fleshed out, and more expertly written way.
BUT, if for some reason the book outcome was different, there would absolutely be people saying that Martin changed his mind after watching the show!
Ribbons wrote:At the very least, the exact same events told in book format would benefit from an interior monologue (third-person limited narration, if you prefer) that explains and contextualizes Dany's thoughts and feelings in the moment. Treating her descent into villainy as an unexpected (though not entirely surprising) twist does the character and the story no favors.
It's also possible that I would hate the way Martin ended his series, too; it's kind of hard to say when you can't compare the two. But one thing that's hard to argue with is that the books are told with deliberation and care, possibly to a fault. The show, particularly since it's left the written material behind, butchers nuance and detail in an attempt to rush toward major plot points. It's unintentionally become the simplified and inaccurate version of history that Martin satirizes in his work. Think about what we "knew" about Robert's Rebellion when we started the series -- a war fought to save the realm from a Mad King and his Mad Son who'd raped a lord's betrothed -- and what we know now: a war concocted by Tywin Lannister and Robert Baratheon over two young people in love with each other, and a king who was mad, yes, but justifiably isolated and paranoid over a conniving Small Council that was actively working to unseat him and murder his heir in order to move into power. The final episodes of Game of Thrones feel like the version of the story we'd hear told in Westeros 50 years later. It's not just enough to know that something happened, you need to understand how and why. Moments like the death of Ned Stark or the Red Wedding could have completely lost readers; it's a testament to the writing that people were justifiably upset, but respectful of their purpose in the story and even a little bit thrilled by their audacity. With this episode the showrunners tried to replicate those moments by relentlessly punishing the audience, but it didn't feel the least bit earned. This should have been a tragedy; instead it's a plot device.
TheBaxter wrote:well they're pretty screwed. but at least they didn't choose Rey
Fievel wrote:If science were to allow the impossible an my wife became pregnant again with a daughter, I'd offer Arya Rey as an option.
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