The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

New movies! Old movies! B-movies! Discuss discuss discuss!!!

Postby DorkmanScott on Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:29 pm

I'm not saying the arm-crossing thing is the reason the films were bad, I'm just saying it's a clear example of what WAS the reason, which is that no one paid any attention to the original films.

You've got a guy in a big black suit with no expressions, no major gestures. There's ONE thing he does that is "characteristic" and makes him that character, and Christensen didn't do it. A cursory glance at the OT by any competent actor trying to get the character down would have revealed that.

Or how about that UNBELIEVABLY shitty Yoda puppet in TPM? Did anyone making that even GLANCE at a picture of the original Yoda at any point?

My point is that I have to wonder if anyone working on the prequels watched the originals at ANY point, when they missed opportunity after opportunity to tie the two trilogies together.

One moment I would have done would be instead of Padme losing the will to live (WTF?) she helps start the alliance and is captured and brought before the Emperor, who fries her with Force lightning while Vader watches and does nothing. I think that would have been a more powerful echo of the climactic scene in ROTJ, and should have been a bigger priority over "echos" like Jango Fett banging his head on the door of Slave I in AOTC.
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Postby Brocktune on Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:32 pm

darthevilbob wrote:I prefer the Phantom Menace to the others in one respect, and that is the fact it did have "some" out door sequences, not everything was green screen.

AOTC was about 90% green screen and ROTS was 100%.

I dunno why but it lends the first film some kinf od filmic quality, that the other two lack.



interesting observation. i would be forced to agree with you. for as bad as TPM seems, it actually does have some redeeming stuff. i guess all 3 do, they just get marred by all the shitty stuff.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:45 pm

I wish there was opinions from some young kids in here. I have never talked to a young kid about the new movies to see what they think....because that would be pretty creepy.
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Postby Petri on Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:47 pm

Chairman Kaga wrote:I wish there was opinions from some young kids in here. I have never talked to a young kid about the new movies to see what they think....because that would be pretty creepy.


Well if the opinions of my 12 year old and 9 year old cousins (both boys) makes a difference, all the Star Wars movies were the best movies they've ever seen.
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:48 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:That said, over time, TPM has grown on me. Maul is too cool not to make me like the film, at least a bit.


Dath Maul... Boba Fett for a the new generation, no?
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Postby wonkabar on Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:44 pm

My biggest problem with the prequels are the jedi. They just seem like a really fucked up organization. Their rules and regulations....they're whole life is a bunch of can'ts,
"I can't fight a war for you--we're not here to start an investigation--we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers--love is forbidden" etc. Well, what CAN you guys do? ("You can't work, you can't FUCK...and you can't fight") They just seemed really inept, not my idea the mighty jedi "knights" I had as a kid.
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:53 pm

Petri wrote:
Chairman Kaga wrote:I wish there was opinions from some young kids in here. I have never talked to a young kid about the new movies to see what they think....because that would be pretty creepy.


Well if the opinions of my 12 year old and 9 year old cousins (both boys) makes a difference, all the Star Wars movies were the best movies they've ever seen.

See that's most people here as kids thought of the originals....
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Postby Brocktune on Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:01 pm

wonkabar wrote:My biggest problem with the prequels are the jedi. They just seem like a really fucked up organization. Their rules and regulations....they're whole life is a bunch of can'ts,
"I can't fight a war for you--we're not here to start an investigation--we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers--love is forbidden" etc. Well, what CAN you guys do? They just seemed really inept, not my idea the mighty jedi "knights" I had as a kid.



yeah. not to mention inconsistent
how about in episode 3 when master windu comes to arrest chancellor palpatine with kit fisto, and the rest of his jedi cronies in tow. he says to palpy "the senate will decide your fate" then not five minutes later, he has old palps on his back on the windowsill, and tells anakin that he has to kill him. wtf?!?! wait, i thought you said that the senate would decide his fate. now you are trying to decide it. i guess i mustve missed something
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:26 pm

wonkabar wrote:My biggest problem with the prequels are the jedi. They just seem like a really fucked up organization. Their rules and regulations....they're whole life is a bunch of can'ts,
"I can't fight a war for you--we're not here to start an investigation--we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers--love is forbidden" etc. Well, what CAN you guys do? They just seemed really inept, not my idea the mighty jedi "knights" I had as a kid.



The "Jedi cants" are precisely why the organization fails. They are powerful, but they're also bloated and complacent, perhaps even a little bit arrogant. The thought of losing is just impossible for them, and thats one of the big reasons why they are caught off guard. They're as much a part of the corruption of the Senate as anyone else, they just don't see it.

Once they are forced to fight and become an army with the onset of the Clone Wars, this not only clouds their ability to see what the hell is going on, but it splits them up and spreads them all over the galaxy. In short, divide and conquer.

I won't defend the first two films because they were really poorly executed, but the ideas are solid. All it needed was a little more tweaking and editing. Also, it should start with Anakin as a teenager, not an irritating little moppet.


Brocktune wrote:yeah. not to mention inconsistent
how about in episode 3 when master windu comes to arrest chancellor palpatine with kit fisto, and the rest of his jedi cronies in tow. he says to palpy "the senate will decide your fate" then not five minutes later, he has old palps on his back on the windowsill, and tells anakin that he has to kill him. wtf?!?! wait, i thought you said that the senate would decide his fate. now you are trying to decide it. i guess i mustve missed something



Brock, in the intervening 5 minutes, Palpatine goes on a kill crazy rampage, wipes out the 3 other Jedi, and almost gets Mace before Mace disarms him. I think the whole violent assault / triple murder renders the Senate's fate deciding powers all but moot, don't you? It went from arrest to KILL HIM NOW because he proved to be a dangerous psychotic killer!

The only thing that I had a problem with in the film was how Anakin goes from 0-60 with his whole Sith rampage. However, I suppose the idea here is that the whole darkside thing really twists your mind into madness, so I gave that a pass after thinking about it. In addition, I think we're supposed to make the conection that there really isn't that big of a leap between killing Sand People kids and killing your own. It comes from the same darkness...
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Postby Brocktune on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:14 pm

ZombieZoneSolutions wrote:
Brocktune wrote:yeah. not to mention inconsistent
how about in episode 3 when master windu comes to arrest chancellor palpatine with kit fisto, and the rest of his jedi cronies in tow. he says to palpy "the senate will decide your fate" then not five minutes later, he has old palps on his back on the windowsill, and tells anakin that he has to kill him. wtf?!?! wait, i thought you said that the senate would decide his fate. now you are trying to decide it. i guess i mustve missed something



Brock, in the intervening 5 minutes, Palpatine goes on a kill crazy rampage, wipes out the 3 other Jedi, and almost gets Mace before Mace disarms him. I think the whole violent assault / triple murder renders the Senate's fate deciding powers all but moot, don't you? It went from arrest to KILL HIM NOW because he proved to be a dangerous psychotic killer!


but wasnt he a dangerous psychotic killer before he snuffed master fisto and the rest? i mean once the jedi realized who he was, they knew the evil he was responsible for, right? the innocent gungans and naboo-ians who were mercilessly slain. so master windu was only going to arrest him for that, but when he kills his buddies, then the kid gloves are off? it still seems a little weak to me. i mean as a jedi knight, and one who adheres to the light side of the force, shouldnt master windu have had to look past his emotional attatchment to master fisto, and be the impartial harbinger of justice in the form or an arrest and a proper trial?
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:22 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:
Nachokoolaid wrote:That said, over time, TPM has grown on me. Maul is too cool not to make me like the film, at least a bit.


Dath Maul... Boba Fett for a the new generation, no?


Yeah, you think Lucas would've learned that lesson the first time. PEOPLE LIKE THE COOL CHARACTERS, not the crap ones.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:01 pm

Brocktune wrote:but wasnt he a dangerous psychotic killer before he snuffed master fisto and the rest?


Not really. He is a leader of psychotic killers and their robot armies! This makes him a war criminal, and thereby subject to the laws of a democratic republic, right? The whole trial by jury thang. Furthermore, as agents of the Republic, the Jedi are beholden to it's laws, right? They're not vigilantes. They can't just kill him outright (even if they wanted to) and still maintain their status as guardians of the Republic, peace and democracy and all that good stuff. That's one of the things that sucks about being the good guys. They're supposed to follow the rules.

Look at it this way, did the soldiers who found Saddam Hussein just kill him? And what about Albert Speer, Rudolph Hess, and all the rest of the Nazis put on trial at Nuremberg; they were guilty of straight up genocide, and even they got the benefit of a fair trial. It wasn't like the Allied soliders who caught them straight up killed them (as much as they may have wanted to.)


Brocktune wrote:i mean as a jedi knight, and one who adheres to the light side of the force, shouldnt master windu have had to look past his emotional attatchment to master fisto, and be the impartial harbinger of justice in the form or an arrest and a proper trial?


At that point, though, Palpatine has resisted arrest, murdered 3 guys, and was just in the midst of trying to kill the 4th when the 4th beat his ass down! He pretty much threw his right to a trial out the window. Hypothetically, what do you think would happen if some cops came to arrest you for whatever reason, and instead of complying, you went on a kill crazy rampage and wasted a bunch of them! You'd get shot down.

Look at what happened to that guy who merely ran to catch the subway in London over the summer. He got his ass shot! Why? Because the policemen told him to stop and he wouldn't! And he was totally innocent!
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Postby Brocktune on Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:54 pm

yeah, you may have a point. that remindes me of that dude who stole that tank down here about 10 or so years ago. even though he was unarmed (the tank wasnt loaded) the cops blasted his ass anyway. but i dont know. it still smells a little fishy to me. but ill believe ya...fer now.
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Postby wonkabar on Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:18 pm

Order-66 bugged too. I thought the Jedi were hunted down by Darth Vader, not friggin storm-troopers. But alas, just about everything Obi-Wan told Luke was 100% pure-concentrated bullshit. The only Jedi that Vader was capable of handling turned out to be little kids and the rest were shot in the back by clones. There's alot of good in the prequels, and I do think with the right editing there is gem lurking somewhere in TPM. But I must disagree with what some are saying here... that the whole thing is great on paper and just poorly executed. I think many of the ideas are just bad to begin with and contradict the mythology set up in OT. Midichlorians, virgin-births, virgin-jedi? Even if the movies were great, better than OT great, I would still have a problem with the direction Lucas took. All the mystery and magic were missing from the get-go IMO
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Postby King Psyz on Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:19 pm

All of you brought up some valid points. My stand on the whole damned mess is this;

Start with ATOC, Darth Maul replaces Count Dooku, and we get the Clone Wars in full gear in the second film (basicly the cartoon series) which would validate the existence of Gen Grievous and we'd get that bad assed pale Jedi hunter from the cartoon too.

Also, Anakin being introduced at a "luke" age as a brash pilot would be much better suited to his mythos. Obi Wan watches him defend himself during an engagement and senses there might be more to him, Yoda says too odl yada yada bad ass jedi does he become. None of this chosen one crap.

I think Ewan nailed Obi Wan and I have no problem telling anyone who asks that he was one of the few redeeming factors to me of the whole damn mess.

I would have liked to see the third film as "The Purge" where you have a real revenge of the Sith as we end the second film with the lava battle and Anakin put in the suit. Third film starts with the Jedi running scared and Obi Wan and Yoda hiding Padme and trying to get her recovered from a full on force choke. She doesn't die as a result of her injuries and the strain of a twin childbirth, not lack of trying. Instead she lives and Yoda and Padme decide to split the kids up in case either one is found (Obi wan is left to belive that Luke was the only child born, hence his suprise at yoda's revelation in ESB) Darth feels a tremor in the force and realises he's a father, but he's still young and can't distinguish that it's actually twins. Bail Organa has a crush on Padme and invites her to take refuge with him and help him start a proper resistance. Also helping to hide Leia from Darth and the Jedi way of life, and giving weight to Leia recalling their mother in ROTJ.

Darth goes full on into Jedi slaying and Obi Wan hunting to kill the pain basiclly. The remnants of the different rebel factions that were villified in the prequels are now banded together by this tyranical rule and the remaining jedi and jedi loyalist bringing us the Rebels we came to know and love.

Boo-fuckin-yaa.
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Postby Shane on Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:14 am

darthevilbob wrote:I prefer the Phantom Menace to the others in one respect, and that is the fact it did have "some" out door sequences, not everything was green screen.

AOTC was about 90% green screen and ROTS was 100%.

I dunno why but it lends the first film some kinf od filmic quality, that the other two lack.


I agree that the green scene and lack of sets was the worst part for me.

Shitbrick McGhee wrote:All of you brought up some valid points. My stand on the whole damned mess is this;

Start with ATOC, Darth Maul replaces Count Dooku, and we get the Clone Wars in full gear in the second film (basicly the cartoon series) which would validate the existence of Gen Grievous and we'd get that bad assed pale Jedi hunter from the cartoon too.

Also, Anakin being introduced at a "luke" age as a brash pilot would be much better suited to his mythos. Obi Wan watches him defend himself during an engagement and senses there might be more to him, Yoda says too odl yada yada bad ass jedi does he become. None of this chosen one crap.

I think Ewan nailed Obi Wan and I have no problem telling anyone who asks that he was one of the few redeeming factors to me of the whole damn mess.

I would have liked to see the third film as "The Purge" where you have a real revenge of the Sith as we end the second film with the lava battle and Anakin put in the suit. Third film starts with the Jedi running scared and Obi Wan and Yoda hiding Padme and trying to get her recovered from a full on force choke. She doesn't die as a result of her injuries and the strain of a twin childbirth, not lack of trying. Instead she lives and Yoda and Padme decide to split the kids up in case either one is found (Obi wan is left to belive that Luke was the only child born, hence his suprise at yoda's revelation in ESB) Darth feels a tremor in the force and realises he's a father, but he's still young and can't distinguish that it's actually twins. Bail Organa has a crush on Padme and invites her to take refuge with him and help him start a proper resistance. Also helping to hide Leia from Darth and the Jedi way of life, and giving weight to Leia recalling their mother in ROTJ.

Darth goes full on into Jedi slaying and Obi Wan hunting to kill the pain basiclly. The remnants of the different rebel factions that were villified in the prequels are now banded together by this tyranical rule and the remaining jedi and jedi loyalist bringing us the Rebels we came to know and love.

Boo-fuckin-yaa.


would like to se your trillogy.
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Postby MadCapsule on Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:05 am

I almost wanna say that ROTS was, for me, the biggest letdown of all the PT.

Let me explain: TPM and AOTC I think were pretty much just shit movies thru-and-thru. Yeah, they both had their cool moments and characters. But overall, they made for a pretty mundane moviegoing experience. On the other hand ROTS hinted at greatness so many times and let me down so often that I was just crushed by the end.

Take Gen. Grievous as an example. Who the hell was that guy?! He seemed to be an important character with a lot of backstory, what with his collection of lightsabers from all the Jedi he killed and all. How 'bout showing us some of that action? Instead we got some tacked-on 15 minute fight with Obi Wan. :roll:

Or how 'bout the Wookie battle? How many people wanted wanted a big epic battle where we got to see the Wookies seriously fuckin' some shit up when they were all roaring? I know I did! I got chills. I thought to myself, "Ooo! Here comes the good shit!" What did we get? Some pyoo!pyoo!pyoo!-ing and cut to another scene! Arrgh! Then I thought Okay, when it cuts back, they'll be in the thick of battle and it'll be badass! Instead, when the movie cuts back the battle is over and you see nothing but a bunch of Wookie corpses! Dubya-Tee-Eff!

ROTS had what was, hands down, some of the worst dialog I heard in '05. To paraphrase a scene between Anakin whatever Natalie Portman's character was supposed to be called:

"I love you more."
"No, I love you more!"
"No, I love you more!"

Projectile vomit! Someone shoulda had the balls to say, "Look, George. Really. This is shit." I know it must be hard for actors to work with that kind of writing but I don't get how a director can have so many good actors and get awful performances from almost every single one of them.

I could keep going, but I think I'll stop for now.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:13 am

We all felt the same about the Wookie battle man. We were ALL let down by that. But seriously, our expectations were incorrectly high about this.

The battle itself never had any real significance or role to the story. It was just meant to be a battle going on in the background to the actual story itself. It felt like a 'count yourself lucky you got anything at all from it' offering from GL. Only it was like instead of a little extra bonus from him, it ended up being something we all wanted more of.

If he had decided to write the battle into the story more, and have it showing more purpose to the overall outcome of the script, it would have justified more screen time. Overall, I thought there was a HELL OF LOT of shit that he crammed into a 2 hourish movie, more than what could fit properly maybe. So I'm glad we got any of that or the Clone Wars at all.

Dickhead should just used the other 2 movies to put all this stuff into. Not Anakin thorwing some stupid flying apple at Padme's head or Anakin riding on a Dung Beetle to turn her on etc.
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:18 am

That's something else that bothers me, Padme seems to be at least 17 in the first film and Anakin seems around 8/9... OK that's a 8-9 year gap I find hard to cross for her to fall for some little kid before she was wooed by anyone more age appropriate (like Obi Wan?).

But next movie I guess ten years or more has passed because all the sudden Anakin is a punk teenager, at least 18 and ...wait for it... Padme looks the same...??? She doesn't pull off as a 27/28 year old woman.

Just one more reason we didn't need the Anakin as a child intro. I think a Han Solo'ish Anakin hot shot would have a better chance of catching the eye of a stuffy queen/senator that would be in roughly the same age range than someone whom the girl has known since he was 8 she was 18.

While I am a huge fan of Boba Fett, I also really didn't want to see Jango Fett or the "orgin" of Boba Fett. I would have rather seen an early Han Solo, Lando, Chewwy, ect. The only way I'd be cool with Boba Fett is if they had the Mandalorians (as he was referred to so many times) a big part of the sepratist army in the clone wars. It was always legend that the locks on Boba's shoulder were of wookies. So instead of droids versus wookies, we'd have mandalorians versus wookies giving us not only a reason to see this battle (since as mentioned there was no real need to see the wookie battle) plus give way to having Boba left as maybe one of if not the only surviving Mandalorian soldier and seeing the wookies captured when droid reinforcements came later (as it was refrenced in ANH if I recall correctly that Han freed Chewy from a Imperial slave camp).

Also I really needed to see Bail Organa more as a leader of the armies in some capacity to validify him sending Leia to Obi in ANH... "You fought for my father in the Clone Wars" So if they would have had say Yoda, Bail, Mon Motha, and some other key leaders as Admirals, I might have been able to understand that line better.
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:19 am

I have now decided my vison for the preqels needs to be made, so I will have to write a script for all thre films. Start a St. Bernard ranch to the stars and make my fortune and invest heavilly into time travel technology giving the script to whomever finally figures it out only to have them go back in time, convince George to make my obviously superior films and cause a huge paradox bringing the destruction of the universe right about...now

In all honesty though, I think in 25 years someone will revisit this galaxy far far away and do a reboot series. Considering the way of things in the movie biz now and that George will be gone or close to it, it is possible.

I'd like to see someone in love with the Star Wars mythos, like an older seasoned Kevin Smith take what we all thought the PT could have been and shoot those movies. Then hand off a remake of the OT to another director and tighten up that (leave empire alone, give us more of Luke swiftly taking to the ways of the force. something I always felt that was missing. and put the second death star back at kashyyk with what remaining wookies there are.).

Then hopefully if they haven't been made yet give the last trilogy to a new director and have them take the EU and run with it giving us the rebirth of the jedi order and all the fun that came in the EU post OT.
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Postby wharto on Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:19 am

We should have had Obi Wan getting in to the sack with Anakin, then asking those teen christians on that website what they thought of that plotline.
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Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:08 pm

Shitbrick McGhee wrote:That's something else that bothers me, Padme seems to be at least 17 in the first film and Anakin seems around 8/9...

But next movie I guess ten years or more has passed because all the sudden Anakin is a punk teenager, at least 18 and ...wait for it... Padme looks the same...??? She doesn't pull off as a 27/28 year old woman.


That bug a me too, but I just a kind of assumed that a the Padme's people dinna age as a fast a the Anakin's people, eh? They never said a they was a from a the same species, no? I mean, they do come from a the different planets...

Shitbrick McGhee wrote:While I am a huge fan of Boba Fett,


This is a something the Dino, he's a never gonna to understand, eh? WHY? He dinna catch a the Han Solo inna the ESB, it was a the Vader, with a the help of a the Lando certainly, no? Boba Fett, he just a got a the nice anna neat package of a the carbon-freezed Han, ready for a the delivery... anna then he goes out like a the putz inna ROTJ, eh? LIKE A THE PUTZ!

Why alla the love, eh? Was it a just a 'cos a the little goddamn toy anna the proof-of-a-the-purchase deal?
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:59 pm

To a kid he was simply cool. Me and you have gone round and round on this one. I sitll hold that at least from my perspective as a tyke that anyone who looks like Boba (obviously battle worn) and has no qualms telling Darth Vader he doesn't like how something is going down just becomes instant cool.

And while he didn't technically catch Han himself, he was the guy who thought of the same thing Han did about attaching himself to the battle cruiser and floating off with the junk before they jump to hyperspace. So he could have caught Han himself but the job stated that he find where they were going and bring Vader to them.
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Postby Peven on Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:27 pm

where do i start, hhmmm....major continuity/logic/writing problems

1. the definition and concept of "the force" we were given in the original movies gets rewritten, and loses almost all the "awe" factor in the prequels with the whole mitochlorians(sp?) = the force explanation. its as if Obi Wan was just making shit up on board the Millenium Falcon talking to Luke.

2. what Obi-Wan tells Luke in the originals about Darth Vader hunting down and killing off the jedi is totally ignored in the prequels.

3. in the prequels, the jedi don't want to train Anakin initially because they say he is too old to begin training to be able to become a jedi, YET in the originals Luke is more than twice as old as Anakin was before he had any training at all and yet he was able to develop his skills as a jedi enough to take down Vader. not only that, but Luke trains for what apears to be months, not years, and in the prequels they present the jedi as needing to study from early childhood until adulthood before they are ready to become full jedi.

4. Qui gon is actually a bad influence on Anakin, imo, since it is he who plants the seeds in Anakin that it is ok to disregard the rules of the jedi satisfy personal feelings, and it is that which ultimately creates the opening for Anakin to be lured to the dark side. (not a story flaw so much, i know, just an observation)

other things that kept the prequels from being better..

too much exposition and convoluded plot; in the originals the story was easy to "get", bad guys vs. good guys, and each side was pretty clearly defined. too many shades of grey in the prequels.

i took my kids to all the prequels, bought all three prequels on dvd, and they sit and collect dust. my kids have almost no interest in rewatching them they way they do with other dvd's they own. the prequels simply didn't engage them the way the originals did for me when i was their age. ROTS, to be fair, did make quite an impression on my two younger sons, 8 and 9, because of Anakin's traitorous turn, and they have zero sympathy for him. i quote, "Anakin got what he deserved, he is just plain bad". that has put them off rewatching ROTS because to them it is such a downer.

ok, i could make some more nitpicks, but thats what i came up with off the top of my head. and for the record, i was a huge fan of the originals, 10 when the first came out in '77, and even read the novelization before i saw the movie. as disappointed as i was with the prequels i have never accused Lucas of raping my childhood though, lol.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:43 pm

DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:This is a something the Dino, he's a never gonna to understand, eh? WHY? He dinna catch a the Han Solo inna the ESB, it was a the Vader, with a the help of a the Lando certainly, no? Boba Fett, he just a got a the nice anna neat package of a the carbon-freezed Han, ready for a the delivery... anna then he goes out like a the putz inna ROTJ, eh? LIKE A THE PUTZ!


I KNOW! I don't get it either... but I do remember thinking he was a totally cool bad ass when I was a kid who dutifully sent away my proofs of purchase for the Boba Fett with the rocket pack that FIRED THE MISSLE! You remember that? How cool was that?

Plus he looked cool and was shrouded in mystery. The kind of mystery that hooks an 8 year olde like nothin' else can... I mean, shit, my earliest movie memory was Star Wars. Get em while their young!


DinoDeLaurentiis wrote:Why alla the love, eh? Was it a just a 'cos a the little goddamn toy anna the proof-of-a-the-purchase deal?


And with a mightly swing of the hammer, Dino hits the nail on the goddamn head once again!

He's a total non-character marketed really well... Jango was actually much cooler in terms of actually doing stuff.

I know I'm gonna get hit on the head for this, but my favorite side character in the prequels was General Grievous. I just thought he was totally great -- this decripit, arrogant dictator with a wheezing cough. I wish there was more of him. He's like a mirror of Vader, but funny sinister instead of emotionally traumatizing sinister.

I think the one that I don't get at all is Darth Maul. He totally sucked! Okay, yeah, he might've looked cool, but thats about it. I have no idea why he gets so much love. Dooku and Grievious were way better...
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Postby King Psyz on Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:15 pm

I think the idea of Maul was better than the execution
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Postby MadCapsule on Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:28 am

Don't know if you all have seen this, but I thought it was funny as hell!

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/swflash.h tml
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:31 am

Peven wrote:
2. what Obi-Wan tells Luke in the originals about Darth Vader hunting down and killing off the jedi is totally ignored in the prequels.


I don't get this one. There isn't any evidence that Order 66 took out all of the Jedi or even a majority of them thus for 20 years Vader could have been doing just that.
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Postby austenandrews on Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:44 am

Chairman Kaga wrote:I don't get this one. There isn't any evidence that Order 66 took out all of the Jedi or even a majority of them thus for 20 years Vader could have been doing just that.

Not to mention the whole, y'know, leading an army of stormtroopers to wipe out all the Jedi in the temple.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby RogueScribner on Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:39 am

Nordling wrote:On paper, the Prequel stories sound really good. It's in the execution that they fail.


I've always maintained that Lucas is a great storyteller but a lousy writer. He can come up with all of these great characters and worlds and events but where he falls short is stringing them all together in a coherent whole. He writes poor dialogue. Sometimes he can pen a memorable line, but often the dialgoue is either cheesy or stilted. It's rare when I believe an actual character is speaking lines in the prequels, but rather Mr. Exposition or a bunch of robots. His dialogue is way too structured, much like how people talked on Star Trek: The Next Generation, though they did loosen up a little in later seasons. He'll also insert random bits that take you out of the experience of the film, like the clumsy Jar-Jar Binks or Dexter Jettster. His dramatic scenes have all the weight of an after school special with half the believability. He can think up nifty dramatic scenes, but he can't pen them properly so he ends up selling them short (Anakin's turn anyone?).

Lucas is presented best when we see his ideas filtered through another person. Lucas had a big hand in the Indiana Jones stories, but he didn't write a single one of the scripts and he directed none of the films. Lucas wrote A New Hope and anyone who's read the multitude of drafts out there know how close that movie came to being an incomprehensible mess. Through friends and allies he managed to whittle it down to an enjoyable core and the rest is history. He wisely enlisted help for the remainder of the original trilogy, developing the overall story and characters and having Lawrence Kasdan actually put it to paper. Would the movies be drastically different if Lucas wrote them? No, but I think so much of the dialogue and character moments we appreciate would be lost because Lucas either is focused on something else (asteroids would be cool!) or he simply isn't talented enough to deliver the goods on his own (the Padmé/Anakin romance was tough to sit through, unlike the Leia/Han romance).

I think after the success of the original films, Lucas simply has been isolated in a creative vacuum. His ideas and actions go through no approval process. He does what he wants. While its cool to have the power to do what you want how you want it, I think for most people their best creative juices flow when they have boundaries and when they consider the opinions of trusted people in their lives. The PT wasn't horrible, but I think it really could have been something special if Lucas just took things a step further in the script process. You can debate the merits of green screen acting, but after seeing Naomi Watts in King Kong, I don't think the green screen is really the issue. Not if there's a good script and director to support the actor in the process.

I like Star Wars. A lot. Well, the Star Wars I grew up with anyway. The new Star Wars can be fun and diverting, but I have no real emotional attachment to it. And maybe that's what it boils down to: I heartily defend the OT because I grew up with it. I'm sure kids who grew up on the PT would heartily defend it against any and all detractors. In the end, we all like what we like for emotional reasons more than logical ones. I think Lucas crafted an interesting tapestry in the prequels, but couldn't quite populate it with enough sincerity and magic to make me a believer all over again. The prequels are really no different from the myriad of other blockbusters Hollywood releases each year. Which is a shame, because Star Wars used to set the standard, not adhere to it.
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Re: The Great STAR WARS Discussion Thread

Postby DinoDeLaurentiis on Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:22 am

RogueScribner wrote:I'm sure kids who grew up on the PT would heartily defend it against any and all detractors.


I donna know paisan, eh? When alla you putzes were a growing uppa, the ST:ATNH, she was alla you had, no? There was a nothing else a like it onna the TV or inna the movies, anna she hit a the public like a the ton of a the bricks, eh? The right a place anna the right a time...

These days, alla the young putzes, they bombarded with a the similar (anna better) material from alla sides, no? The PT, she just a the 'nother flash inna the pan for a the putzes these days, anna most likely, each a film was a pretty much forgotten by a the next opening weekend... or a the next republican scandal... you pick, eh?
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Postby Nordling on Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:26 am

Yeah, that's the problem with being the first, or at least, the most influential. I can't imagine the PT being held with any high regard by the later generations. But the OT, even minus the nostalgia, still holds up, for the most part. TESB is so well-written that it can't help but still be good.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:38 pm

Something that I've been thinking about lately is this prevailing idea that the Jedi are virgins. Are they? There really is no indication whatsoever that they must remain virginal. Certainly it may appear that most of the Jedi are abstinent of their own volition (or because they're butt ugly), but nowhere does it say that they must be abstinent. In short: there is no abstinence rule.

I think the rules of the order leave ample room for enlightened fuck friendship -- someone you are friends with, whose company you enjoy, who you sleep with occasionally, but who you aren't "attached" to. Yes, "attachment is forbidden" and "Jedi aren't supposed to marry", but nowhere does it say they can't just fuck when the mood strikes them. I think the assumption that non-attachment implies virginity smacks of a deeply ingrained cultural puritanism; either you are shackled to some pre-fabricated social convention/prison or you're not allowed to have sex.

Based on the films, all we do know is that:

1. Attachment is forbidden
2. Jedi aren't allowed to marry

BUT, nowhere does it say they must be abstinent; all it says is that they must be "unattached." Haven't you ever slept with someone you weren't attached to? Casual sex is a win win situation; no attachment, no preconceptions. This sort of enlightenment is only thought of as immoral by the puritanical.

Of course, enlightened fuck friendmanship is the kind of thing that only the most exceptional / non-conventional / fearless people can handle. And the Jedi are all of these things, right? So why not Jedi Fuck Friends? I think that's what is going on behind the scenes. Cmon, you think that Obi Wan McGregor never got with that hot Blue Jedi Chick? You're crazy...
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Postby Chairman Kaga on Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:24 pm

Plus there must be whores in the SW universe..
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:26 pm

Well, let's have a look at Anakin's mother. What exactly went on there? 'He has no real natural father?'













OR maybe it was those fucking CGI 'not really existnent' Clonetroopers again.
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Postby Nachokoolaid on Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:10 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Well, let's have a look at Anakin's mother. What exactly went on there? 'He has no real natural father?'













OR maybe it was those fucking CGI 'not really existnent' Clonetroopers again.


Natural father or not, you know Qui Gon hit that.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:38 pm

Nachokoolaid wrote:
Natural father or not, you know Qui Gon hit that.


Totally! It was the will of the Force that they knock boots and exchange midichlorians.
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Postby Retardo_Montalban on Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:42 pm

Any of you see Roots??

Anakins mother was a slave. She was obviously raped by her "owner" and Anakin is The Star Wars version of Chicken George. The First of his family to taste freedom, and fight chickens. So Going by that logic, Anakins father is obviously This man
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Postby Shane on Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:25 pm

I just saw New Hope for the first time since I've seen ROTS.

Inoticed alot. It does give a slightly new spin to the movie. The first bit I noticed was Vader in the beginning calling Leia a Traitor and a Part of a rebel Alliance. Anakins rants from ROTS just rang in my head. I started to see it all pull together a bit more this time.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:30 pm

Retardo_Montalban wrote:Any of you see Roots??

Anakins mother was a slave. She was obviously raped by her "owner" and Anakin is The Star Wars version of Chicken George. The First of his family to taste freedom, and fight chickens. So Going by that logic, Anakins father is obviously This man
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IPAMPILASH! You can really see the resemblance in the eyes and bulbous snout.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:50 pm

Well it would certainly have helped if George Mucus started his 'character drven' story properly before the final act of SW2. Moron.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:57 pm

Cpt Kirks 2pay wrote:Well it would certainly have helped if George Mucus started his 'character drven' story properly before the final act of SW2. Moron.


I know! It's fuckin' ridiculous. Hey, at least those CLONE WARS cartoons and ROTS are fuckin' aces though, right?
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:00 pm

True. Alas, they're not enough to build up the rest of the fallen House of Cards. Clone Wars and the Apocalypse of the Jedis, it relatively got a pass in the films. W......T.....FUUUCCCK!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
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Postby Peven on Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:27 pm

i remember back as a kid watching the original trilogy, envisioning the Clone Wars and eradication of the jedi as an epic struggle, where the near-invincible jedi are defeated only because the all-mighty Darth Vader had hunted them down and exterminated them personally, because who else could have taken out the jedi order? a bunch of weak-minded clones??? in a sequence that lasted all of about 10 minutes on screen??? and Yoda turning tail and fleeing after one draw with the Emperor??? just not what the original trilogy inspired my imagination to picture all those years.
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Postby Peven on Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:30 pm

i will say this, the final showdown between Obi-Wan and Anakin was pretty damn good, and didn't disappoint that 10 yr old in me that had waited over 25 yrs to see it.
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Postby Cpt Kirks 2pay on Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:34 pm

As great as it was, and maybe I'm being fussy, but I did think that the Obi Wan/Anakin Duel had too much interruptions in their fight (tip toeing on the pipes, plunging nad surfing on the lava) instead of going at it more consistently with their swords. Less % of close ups too would be welcome. Still wanted more as usual.
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Postby ZombieZoneSolutions on Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:16 pm

I loved every second of the Anakin v. Obi Wan duel. And that music! It's great! I think thats the most enduring/emotional of the new themes.

Anyways, next to Luke v Vader ESB, it's my fave Final Climactic Showdown (TM) of the series.
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Postby wharto on Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:32 am

There are moments from each of the prequel movies that I will cherish for as long as I live, Obi and Qui Gon vs Maul from TPM, the Jango Fett vs Obi Wan fight in AOTC, and the Anakin and Obi Wan duel from ROTS, however when you compare that to the original trilogy it is shit.
I have to say George Lucas raped my adulthood.
Also George if you are reading this Jar Jar Fucking Binks why???????????
What a complete waste of time and effort, ILM could have been doing something more constructive like tugging themselves off.
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Postby wonkabar on Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:28 am

Shane wrote:I just saw New Hope for the first time since I've seen ROTS.

Inoticed alot. It does give a slightly new spin to the movie.

How 'bout the fact that Vader/Ani is chasing his daughter and his two former droids, (one of which he friggin BUILT) over a familiar-looking world. Naturally after the droids escape and get picked up by Jawas, teh very first person they get sold to is none-other than LUKE SKYWALKER...of course! Turns out Vader just happened to be cruising over his home planet where his son was hidden with his... step-brother...right? Obi-wan figured these really close relatives would have no problem taking in the son of an evil sith-lord (Do they know? "He has too much of his father in him" "that's what I'm afraid of"???) apparently he was right. Why would they have a problem when that guy that hung out for a day in AOTC seemed so stable? Hey, wow look...there's Yoda's buddy Chewbacca at the bar. Doesn't seen to notice Obi-wan's Jedi-robes...what's his problem? How come the clonetroopers don't speak with NZ accents anymore?

Look man, I love SW, and in many ways I think Lucas is a genius. But I'm telling you, when future impartial generations watch these movies in the order that Lucas suggests........*shudders*
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Postby RogueScribner on Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:19 am

That's what pisses me off the most about the prequels. Instead of crafting a history that fits what we've learned in the original trilogy, Lucas instead writes whatever he wants and then CHANGES the original trilogy to fit this new continuity.

W

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