HBO's The Last of Us
HBO's The Last of Us
this looks damn good. and for anyone who's played the games, the use of Take On Me is a really nice touch.
Re: HBO SUCKS!
I’m looking forward to it for sure. Need a good series, it’s been a while. Never played the game, so I don’t know the backstory or outcome whatsoever, which will be refreshing to go into a series not having a clue what’s happening
Re: HBO SUCKS!
yeah, the promotion gives away a little more information than i would've liked, though that's info revealed pretty early on into the game. if there's a season 2, and if it's based on the 2nd game, then you'll really want to avoid spoilers then.
Re: HBO SUCKS!
I just read that this is likely just a 3 season show.
https://gizmodo.com/last-of-us-hbo-leng ... 1849945355
Re: HBO SUCKS!
they're saying all the right things. season 1 following game #1 is natural, there's enough story to fill up a season without padding, and it would feel awkward to end it at a different point than the game ending.so sorry wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:51 pmI just read that this is likely just a 3 season show.
https://gizmodo.com/last-of-us-hbo-leng ... 1849945355
season/game 2 is where it's gonna get interesting. the structure of game #2 is gonna be tricky to adapt. there's an obvious way to do it in a single (longer, maybe 12-episode?) season. and there's an obvious way to split it into 2 seasons, but it would be terrible to do it that way. it would mean ending season 2 on a cliffhanger (which would go against what they say in the article about wanting each season to feel satisfying if the series didn't continue from there). if they do split it across multiple seasons, i hope they can figure out a way to do it that would avoid those issues.
in fact, maybe the best approach would to split the season in half, 6 episodes each. kinda like they did with season 4 of stranger things, or some seasons of walking dead before i stopped watching. they can film it all at once, but still break it up at the natural middle point of the story without the risk of not completing the story. and then if they need to wait until game #3 is done before doing a third season, it shouldn't be a problem. it won't be a GoT situation, game #3 is in development now, it'll probably already be out before season 2 is even finished, and if it's not, just take a year or two off until it is. there's a time jump between game 1 and 2, so no worries about cast members aging out or anything.
but i'm glad they're not planning on dragging it out Walking Dead-style. better shorter with a definitive ending than the crap pile that show became. i do think there are plenty of opportunities for spinoffs down the line, or prequels, or whatever, but at least for the core series, the focus is and should be on joel and ellie's story and as long as they maintain that focus and bring it to a satisfying conclusion, keeping it short and on point is the way to go.
Re: HBO SUCKS!
also, with less than a week to go before the show premieres, it's probably worth moving these posts into a separate thread dedicated to the show.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
it's off to a good start. true to the game while adding some additional context and backstory to the world and the characters. pedro is gonna be fine as joel. not 100% sold on bella yet, but she'll have much more to do as the show goes on. capturing that mix of snotty rebellious kid with the sense of curiousity and wonder the character experiences as they travel across the country will be a tough balancing act and hopefully she's up for it. but the look of the show is spot on and staying true to the themes of the game's story (maybe a little too true with that scene of pedro brutalizing that guard).
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
I dug it, although I think they could have come up with an original opening title sequence instead of just modifying the Game of Thrones intro.
Just knowing that its based off a video game, I was watching it and thinking to myself "OK, this is the part of the game where they have to drive out of the town, this is the part of the game where they have to go get the car battery" etc, which isn't a good way to focus on a show. Hopefully I get over this way of watching and enjoy it for what it is.
Just knowing that its based off a video game, I was watching it and thinking to myself "OK, this is the part of the game where they have to drive out of the town, this is the part of the game where they have to go get the car battery" etc, which isn't a good way to focus on a show. Hopefully I get over this way of watching and enjoy it for what it is.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
there's no battery search in the game (there is a search, for something different, and it's longer and more violent, but it ultimately leads to the same place the show gets to). stay tuned for the next 9 weeks for more explanations of how the show deviates from the game 
just like HotD, it's worth staying for the post-credits interviews where they talk about the episode. they pointed out a couple things i didn't pick up on during the episode itself.
just like HotD, it's worth staying for the post-credits interviews where they talk about the episode. they pointed out a couple things i didn't pick up on during the episode itself.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
good job on the clickers, glad they didn't overthink it and totally revamp the creature design or sound effects. if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
nice job on the bookcase-moving, people-boosting, and ladder-walking too. they really captured the excitement of those moments in the game. can't wait for the first time joel has to pick up and carry a ladder, or push a dumpster up to a fire escape, but nothing will compare to those iconic sequences of ellie balancing on a piece of plywood while joel pushes it across a flooded tunnel. the non-gamers in the audience don't know what they've got to look forward to.
nice job on the bookcase-moving, people-boosting, and ladder-walking too. they really captured the excitement of those moments in the game. can't wait for the first time joel has to pick up and carry a ladder, or push a dumpster up to a fire escape, but nothing will compare to those iconic sequences of ellie balancing on a piece of plywood while joel pushes it across a flooded tunnel. the non-gamers in the audience don't know what they've got to look forward to.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
Episode 3:
well, that was unexpected
well, that was unexpected
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
Decent episode #4. I like the fact that they can go a whole episode without showing/running in to the infected/monsters.
no idea who the new people are or what the fuck they are looking for (some guy?), but assuming this will be answered in the next installment.
(minor point, but i got angry when they left all that shit in the truck before they took off... they had time to at least grab a bag of supplies/food/weapons dammit!).
no idea who the new people are or what the fuck they are looking for (some guy?), but assuming this will be answered in the next installment.
(minor point, but i got angry when they left all that shit in the truck before they took off... they had time to at least grab a bag of supplies/food/weapons dammit!).
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
First real "video game" moment in the last episode, with Joel in the bell tower picking off infected to get the girl to safety.
Still a solid episode, and the unavoidable ending with Henry and Sam was nasty for sure.
Still a solid episode, and the unavoidable ending with Henry and Sam was nasty for sure.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
"THREE MONTHS LATER".... well, I guess they made good time on their journey!
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
according to Google Maps, it takes 343 hours to walk from Kansas City to Jackson, WY. assuming 10 hrs/day, that's a little over a month. so either they've been slacking, or they've been running into LOTS of zombies/infected/raiders/etc along the way.
on the other hand, it takes 163 hours (and a decent amount of backtracking) to walk from Jackson to Denver. Google Maps doesn't give a time by horse, but by bike it's closer to 45 hours, so that's probably comparable. just imagine how much faster they could get around though, if they could fly on a dragon?
i'm a dumb male, so i had to google to find out what kind of "cup" that was that Maria gave Ellie. and yeah... that's something i know now.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
I'm making my wife watch this with me, and I had to ask her what the hell that was all about. I figured it was some kind of "feminine" thing.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
love the little easter eggs they drop in this show. little stuff like reloading a gun in the middle of a fight, or boosting ellie up through a window, have a little extra meaning if you've played the game. but this last episode, the flickering flashlight... that's some next level trolling right there.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
Still watching, but starting to lose some interest honesty. Its good, don't get me wrong. But its not great or "OMG can't wait until next week" level for me.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
i'd stick with it at least through the end of the season. the last couple episodes have been on the slower side, but the final 2 episodes should be pretty intense. you'll know by the end of the finale if it's something you want to stick around for next season.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
Yeah I'm going to continue for sure (this season and next). Just not as jazzed, that's what I meant.TheBaxter wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:10 pmi'd stick with it at least through the end of the season. the last couple episodes have been on the slower side, but the final 2 episodes should be pretty intense. you'll know by the end of the finale if it's something you want to stick around for next season.
It hasn't reached The Walking Dead level yet
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
not too much danger of that, if this was the Walking Dead, they'd still be in Boston making plans to leave, and the entire 2nd season would take place in Bill and Frank's town.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
Well THAT was a violent episode!
Can't wait to see how they close this season out next week, considering where Joel and Elle are and what the goal is.
Can't wait to see how they close this season out next week, considering where Joel and Elle are and what the goal is.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
one episode to go. it's been hard to talk about the show too much without risking spoilers, but that should get somewhat easier after the finale. just don't ask anything about game/season #2.
so far i think this has been a good adaptation of the game for tv, but not a great one. they've hit all the major story beats, and followed the basic outline of the journey of joel and ellie through the game. the things they've changed have been primarily within the connective tissue, the things that get you from point A to point B, or cutscene 16 to cutscene 17. the fights, obviously, have been way pared down. even in the game, it's not like you're mowing zombies down with a machine gun, the body count of the game is actually on the lower side compared to something like Resident Evil or your typical shooter game. and things like ammo are pretty scarce, it's almost as much scavenger hunt as fighting game, and sometimes sneaking around enemies is more important than killing... but that said, there's still a lot more action in the game. and while i understand why they pared that back for the show, some of those moments of fighting/sneaking/scavenging are what really immerse you in the world, and that feeling of desperation that forces joel and ellie to rely on each other and become as close as they do.
i think the series so far just feels a little oddly rushed. 9 episodes is a weird episode count, and they could've benefitted from at least one more episode. with the exception of the 2-part KC story, it feels like each episode is a little too self-contained. meet new character(s), find out if they're good or bad, then help them/kill them accordingly, all in the space of a single episode. the game is a bit like that too, split into chapters, but you spend several hours in each chapter instead of a single rushed hour. that's where all that connective tissue of the game comes in. the show wants to focus more on the backstory and characters of each of these chapters, than the action, and that is probably the correct approach for a tv show, but they just needed more time to do it effectively. the last episode was a good example, it would have worked better if they split it across two episodes and really made you wonder if ellie was going to join david's group, how appealing it would seem to her at this point with joel's injury, the lack of food and supplies, the cold, everything they're going through at this point. then you find out how monstrous david really is in the 2nd part, and ellie and joel's desperate escape. that whole scenario could have been fleshed out (pun intended) a lot more, and then ellie's trauma from the experience, which becomes pretty important, would seem more justified.
that said, the performances have been excellent and pedro and bella have both done great jobs. this version of joel is more broken and withdrawn, and bella's ellie is more angry and fierce, but that totally works for the story. it did feel like a big moment when joel and ellie reunite at the end of ep 8 and it felt emotional. i don't know how much of that is from the show and performances, or because i know from the games where that's going to lead, but it worked.
if the final episode is anything like the game's ending (and i'd be shocked at this point if they changed it), it will be divisive. but not as divisive as the game. there's a fundamental difference between telling a story through an active medium, like a video game, vs telling it in the more passive medium of tv/movies/books/etc. and that plays out in a big way in the finale, but i'll have more to say about that in a week.
so far i think this has been a good adaptation of the game for tv, but not a great one. they've hit all the major story beats, and followed the basic outline of the journey of joel and ellie through the game. the things they've changed have been primarily within the connective tissue, the things that get you from point A to point B, or cutscene 16 to cutscene 17. the fights, obviously, have been way pared down. even in the game, it's not like you're mowing zombies down with a machine gun, the body count of the game is actually on the lower side compared to something like Resident Evil or your typical shooter game. and things like ammo are pretty scarce, it's almost as much scavenger hunt as fighting game, and sometimes sneaking around enemies is more important than killing... but that said, there's still a lot more action in the game. and while i understand why they pared that back for the show, some of those moments of fighting/sneaking/scavenging are what really immerse you in the world, and that feeling of desperation that forces joel and ellie to rely on each other and become as close as they do.
i think the series so far just feels a little oddly rushed. 9 episodes is a weird episode count, and they could've benefitted from at least one more episode. with the exception of the 2-part KC story, it feels like each episode is a little too self-contained. meet new character(s), find out if they're good or bad, then help them/kill them accordingly, all in the space of a single episode. the game is a bit like that too, split into chapters, but you spend several hours in each chapter instead of a single rushed hour. that's where all that connective tissue of the game comes in. the show wants to focus more on the backstory and characters of each of these chapters, than the action, and that is probably the correct approach for a tv show, but they just needed more time to do it effectively. the last episode was a good example, it would have worked better if they split it across two episodes and really made you wonder if ellie was going to join david's group, how appealing it would seem to her at this point with joel's injury, the lack of food and supplies, the cold, everything they're going through at this point. then you find out how monstrous david really is in the 2nd part, and ellie and joel's desperate escape. that whole scenario could have been fleshed out (pun intended) a lot more, and then ellie's trauma from the experience, which becomes pretty important, would seem more justified.
that said, the performances have been excellent and pedro and bella have both done great jobs. this version of joel is more broken and withdrawn, and bella's ellie is more angry and fierce, but that totally works for the story. it did feel like a big moment when joel and ellie reunite at the end of ep 8 and it felt emotional. i don't know how much of that is from the show and performances, or because i know from the games where that's going to lead, but it worked.
if the final episode is anything like the game's ending (and i'd be shocked at this point if they changed it), it will be divisive. but not as divisive as the game. there's a fundamental difference between telling a story through an active medium, like a video game, vs telling it in the more passive medium of tv/movies/books/etc. and that plays out in a big way in the finale, but i'll have more to say about that in a week.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
Wait, you're telling me the game had the same end point as this season?
9 episodes for an HBO 'major' show is about right I think. Game of Thrones was what, 10 episodes each season? This isn't a sitcom where they can afford 22 episodes!
9 episodes for an HBO 'major' show is about right I think. Game of Thrones was what, 10 episodes each season? This isn't a sitcom where they can afford 22 episodes!
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
the first game, yes. they will both end at the same point.
GoT was 10 eps/season til they started rushing to get it finished. it's a balancing act of how much is too much or too little... and the trend of shorter seasons is winning out. i'm watching the old Marvel Netflix shows right now, which were 13 eps/season. a lot of shows were doing 12 episode seasons, then down to 10, and now the 8 episode season seems really popular with a lot of shows, like the Manadalorian. generally i'm fine with that, no one wants a lot of filler. i actually debate whether i think this show would be better if it was longer or if it was shorter. there are arguments for both, but ultimately i came down on longer just because a couple episodes felt like they sped through stuff that could have been expanded on, like last episode or the Colorado University section. 9 episodes was just a weird place to land at (also maybe triggers my OCD a bit... come on, make it an even 10!)
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
and that's a wrap for season 1. i've had 10 years to think about the ending of this game (and now this show), i played it when it originally came out on PS3, then again in the early days of COVID right before the sequel game came out, and now again seeing it as a tv show. so i have some thoughts.
needless to say, SPOILERS GALORE ahead for the finale of this show.
first, extremely faithful to the ending of the game, right down to the very last line. there wasn't much they could do to improve it, so they did what they should do and recreated it just as it was. the few things that were added (like ellie's birth and joel's revelation about attempting suicide after his daughter's death) only enhanced what was already there. so glad they did the giraffe scene justice: i remember when i first heard they were making this show, one of my first thoughts was "yes! we'll get to see the giraffe scene!" it was moments like that that made the game special and such a ripe opportunity for an adaptation.
of course, the big, divisive moment of the game is Joel's Choice. i was very curious to see how this would play out in the show. there's a fundamental difference between the two mediums here, because in the game, you're not just an observer to this choice, you're an active participant. Joel makes the decision to save Ellie (and thereby, doom... or at least "possibly" doom... humanity*) but you the player are forced to carry out that decision. you're the one who has to pull the trigger (or push the buttons) that kills all those Fireflies. and you have to do that, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with Joel's decision. games can make you feel like you have some choice or control over the outcome, but games are just as scripted as books or tv or movies, and any sense of choice or control is just an illusion. part of the brilliance of the game was how it forced you to realize that point. the only real choice you have is to go along with the script and kill a whole bunch of people to make it to the end of the game, or quit playing entirely after having sunk dozens of hours or more into the game. to really hammer it home, in the game, when you reach the operating room, you HAVE to shoot the doctor. you aren't given the option of choking him out, or kneecapping him, or otherwise overpowering him and rescuing Ellie while leaving him alive... no, the game FORCES you to kill the doctor, possibly the only person in the world who can create a cure, a man armed only with a tiny scalpel, in order to reach Ellie and progress to the next section of the game. no matter how hard you may have tried to evade "enemies" and avoid unnecessary killing up to this point, you ultimately have no choice at the end but to become a cold-hearted murderer.
and that, i believe, is why this game's ending has been so divisive over the years. in more passive mediums, like a books/movies/tv shows, you're merely watching someone else. we're used to seeing good characters, or at least characters we believe to be the good guys, or who we've grown attached to, do something wrong or terrible or horrible, or change into something we don't like. but if it's well done, if it serves the story, that kind of thing can be very powerful. we don't have to like or agree with the characters to enjoy the story they are telling. but games are different. you spend hours walking in a character's shoes, carrying out their actions, and you ultimately become a co-conspirator, so when that character does something you object to, it hits differently. it evokes a different and stronger reaction. some people got very angry with this game because of that. i knew there was no way you could recreate that feeling exactly in a passive medium like a tv show, so i don't expect the ending to be as divisive as the game. but it will still provoke a lot of debate, just like the game did, over whether Joel made the right choice or not.
and seeing the ending of this story, in this way, actually did slightly change my opinion on that question. in the game, i disagreed with what Joel did, but i understood it. or at least i thought i did. everything in this story is designed to build up that relationship between these two characters, so by the end they are fully in a father-daughter type relationship. i'm not a parent, but i noticed that the reactions of parents generally was much more to agree with Joel's choice than non-parents. and i could empathize enough with that perspective to understand that, while logically the right thing to do is allow them to sacrifice her life to make a potential cure, that, as Spock would say, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one," that it's a lot easier to say that about someone else's child than about your own. it's a lot easier to make that decision when it's an abstract concept, and not someone you love. so i felt like i understood why Joel did what he did.
but watching it on TV, i understood something more fundamental: it wasn't even a choice at all. the idea that we can debate whether Joel's choice was right or wrong assumes that it was even possible for Joel to make a different choice, and i think the show demonstrated that Joel's actions were inevitable. from the trauma he went through, losing his original daughter, to everything he has gone through with Ellie and the bond they have forged, there was simply no possibility that, when faced with losing another daughter like that, that he could have done anything differently. the moment he's told that the surgery to extract the fungus and find a cure will kill Ellie, it's just a visceral reaction on his part to do everything he can possibly do to save her. he never even stops to consider the larger ramifications of his actions, it's just pure instinct, the parental instinct to protect your child, that takes over completely. even when there are pauses, he's not pausing because he's wondering if he should save her, he's only pausing to try to figure out HOW to save her. and in his final conversation with Marlene, when she's trying to convince him to do the "right thing" by her judgment, there is no space in his brain to even consider her arguments. literally every thought and emotion in his head at that point is geared towards saving Ellie. i think the show made Joel a little more desperate and dependent on Ellie by the end, than the game did, even to the point of being unhealthy or toxic. it certainly made his actions feel less like a choice and more like something beyond his control.
but there is a choice he makes, and that's the choice to lie to Ellie about what happened. i think he knows by telling her it will destroy their relationship, and he's so desperate to preserve this connection he's finally made after being closed off for so long, so he lies to protect himself from losing that relationship. it's a selfish lie. will it come back to haunt him? i'm not telling. there's a lot that happens in this episode that will have major implications for how the story unfolds in season 2. there was one moment in particular, in the hospital, that i won't give away but the way they handled it, it could've been overdone and instead they underplayed it just enough. this moment has massive implications for how the next season will play out, and they did a good job not tipping their hands or making it seem too big. because part of the point is just how important seemingly insignificant things can become.
and now the long wait for season 2 begins.
* from my recollection of the games, it's perhaps made a little more clear that there is no guarantee the surgery would work, or that they'd be able to actually produce a vaccine or cure from Ellie's infection. it's more of a 50/50 chance, which is still enough for most people to say it's worthwhile when the fate of humanity is on the line. but it's 100% that Ellie will die from the surgery, which changes the calculation a bit for someone like Joel to face the possibility that Ellie's death could end up being for nothing.
needless to say, SPOILERS GALORE ahead for the finale of this show.
first, extremely faithful to the ending of the game, right down to the very last line. there wasn't much they could do to improve it, so they did what they should do and recreated it just as it was. the few things that were added (like ellie's birth and joel's revelation about attempting suicide after his daughter's death) only enhanced what was already there. so glad they did the giraffe scene justice: i remember when i first heard they were making this show, one of my first thoughts was "yes! we'll get to see the giraffe scene!" it was moments like that that made the game special and such a ripe opportunity for an adaptation.
of course, the big, divisive moment of the game is Joel's Choice. i was very curious to see how this would play out in the show. there's a fundamental difference between the two mediums here, because in the game, you're not just an observer to this choice, you're an active participant. Joel makes the decision to save Ellie (and thereby, doom... or at least "possibly" doom... humanity*) but you the player are forced to carry out that decision. you're the one who has to pull the trigger (or push the buttons) that kills all those Fireflies. and you have to do that, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with Joel's decision. games can make you feel like you have some choice or control over the outcome, but games are just as scripted as books or tv or movies, and any sense of choice or control is just an illusion. part of the brilliance of the game was how it forced you to realize that point. the only real choice you have is to go along with the script and kill a whole bunch of people to make it to the end of the game, or quit playing entirely after having sunk dozens of hours or more into the game. to really hammer it home, in the game, when you reach the operating room, you HAVE to shoot the doctor. you aren't given the option of choking him out, or kneecapping him, or otherwise overpowering him and rescuing Ellie while leaving him alive... no, the game FORCES you to kill the doctor, possibly the only person in the world who can create a cure, a man armed only with a tiny scalpel, in order to reach Ellie and progress to the next section of the game. no matter how hard you may have tried to evade "enemies" and avoid unnecessary killing up to this point, you ultimately have no choice at the end but to become a cold-hearted murderer.
and that, i believe, is why this game's ending has been so divisive over the years. in more passive mediums, like a books/movies/tv shows, you're merely watching someone else. we're used to seeing good characters, or at least characters we believe to be the good guys, or who we've grown attached to, do something wrong or terrible or horrible, or change into something we don't like. but if it's well done, if it serves the story, that kind of thing can be very powerful. we don't have to like or agree with the characters to enjoy the story they are telling. but games are different. you spend hours walking in a character's shoes, carrying out their actions, and you ultimately become a co-conspirator, so when that character does something you object to, it hits differently. it evokes a different and stronger reaction. some people got very angry with this game because of that. i knew there was no way you could recreate that feeling exactly in a passive medium like a tv show, so i don't expect the ending to be as divisive as the game. but it will still provoke a lot of debate, just like the game did, over whether Joel made the right choice or not.
and seeing the ending of this story, in this way, actually did slightly change my opinion on that question. in the game, i disagreed with what Joel did, but i understood it. or at least i thought i did. everything in this story is designed to build up that relationship between these two characters, so by the end they are fully in a father-daughter type relationship. i'm not a parent, but i noticed that the reactions of parents generally was much more to agree with Joel's choice than non-parents. and i could empathize enough with that perspective to understand that, while logically the right thing to do is allow them to sacrifice her life to make a potential cure, that, as Spock would say, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one," that it's a lot easier to say that about someone else's child than about your own. it's a lot easier to make that decision when it's an abstract concept, and not someone you love. so i felt like i understood why Joel did what he did.
but watching it on TV, i understood something more fundamental: it wasn't even a choice at all. the idea that we can debate whether Joel's choice was right or wrong assumes that it was even possible for Joel to make a different choice, and i think the show demonstrated that Joel's actions were inevitable. from the trauma he went through, losing his original daughter, to everything he has gone through with Ellie and the bond they have forged, there was simply no possibility that, when faced with losing another daughter like that, that he could have done anything differently. the moment he's told that the surgery to extract the fungus and find a cure will kill Ellie, it's just a visceral reaction on his part to do everything he can possibly do to save her. he never even stops to consider the larger ramifications of his actions, it's just pure instinct, the parental instinct to protect your child, that takes over completely. even when there are pauses, he's not pausing because he's wondering if he should save her, he's only pausing to try to figure out HOW to save her. and in his final conversation with Marlene, when she's trying to convince him to do the "right thing" by her judgment, there is no space in his brain to even consider her arguments. literally every thought and emotion in his head at that point is geared towards saving Ellie. i think the show made Joel a little more desperate and dependent on Ellie by the end, than the game did, even to the point of being unhealthy or toxic. it certainly made his actions feel less like a choice and more like something beyond his control.
but there is a choice he makes, and that's the choice to lie to Ellie about what happened. i think he knows by telling her it will destroy their relationship, and he's so desperate to preserve this connection he's finally made after being closed off for so long, so he lies to protect himself from losing that relationship. it's a selfish lie. will it come back to haunt him? i'm not telling. there's a lot that happens in this episode that will have major implications for how the story unfolds in season 2. there was one moment in particular, in the hospital, that i won't give away but the way they handled it, it could've been overdone and instead they underplayed it just enough. this moment has massive implications for how the next season will play out, and they did a good job not tipping their hands or making it seem too big. because part of the point is just how important seemingly insignificant things can become.
and now the long wait for season 2 begins.
* from my recollection of the games, it's perhaps made a little more clear that there is no guarantee the surgery would work, or that they'd be able to actually produce a vaccine or cure from Ellie's infection. it's more of a 50/50 chance, which is still enough for most people to say it's worthwhile when the fate of humanity is on the line. but it's 100% that Ellie will die from the surgery, which changes the calculation a bit for someone like Joel to face the possibility that Ellie's death could end up being for nothing.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
about the only unrealistic part of the whole episode is that the head firefly chick DOESN'T KILL JOEL. She goes thru her entire speech outlining the fact that Joel formed a bond with her etc etc, then just decides to let him go, as if he isn't going to kill them all.
Interesting back story about the game play, and having no choice but to kill them all and let God sort them out. I certainly didn't see it as a "choice" either... it was clear what he was going to do and why, and that it was justified. Cure for the rest of humanity? Well, sure I guess this would be good, but from what the show laid out for me as the viewer, the infected aren;t the #1 problem in this New World, its the humans (which is always the case in any/all apocalyptic shows).
Interesting ending with Joel doubling down on the lie to Ellie, and Ellie knowing he's lying, but pretending to believe him.
#teamJoel
Interesting back story about the game play, and having no choice but to kill them all and let God sort them out. I certainly didn't see it as a "choice" either... it was clear what he was going to do and why, and that it was justified. Cure for the rest of humanity? Well, sure I guess this would be good, but from what the show laid out for me as the viewer, the infected aren;t the #1 problem in this New World, its the humans (which is always the case in any/all apocalyptic shows).
Interesting ending with Joel doubling down on the lie to Ellie, and Ellie knowing he's lying, but pretending to believe him.
#teamJoel
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
yeah, it is a bit of a Bond Villain moment when she explains the situation and lets him live. i think the explanation comes down to a few things: she knew Joel as a smuggler back in Boston, knew what he was like then, how cold and unfeeling and cynical he was. she didn't realize how much he had changed and how strong the bond he formed with Ellie during their journey was, so she still thought he was the same guy who only saw her as "cargo" and just wanted to get paid and get back to his life. also, she feels genuine admiration and appreciation for his ability to actually succeed in getting Ellie to that hospital, so she feels like she owes it to him to let him go.
i also never totally bought the idea of a cure. assuming the doctors are even right about being able to extract and isolate and recreate whatever it is in Ellie that makes her immune, which is a pretty big assumption, then how do you synthesize and mass-produce and distribute that in such a fucked up world? with no factories, no chemical plants, limited supplies, no long-distance transportation system, and so on and so on? and just because the FIreflies are opposed to the fascist FEDRA doesn't mean they're saints themselves. maybe they just use their limited supply of vaccine to save themselves and become the new group in power. they can tell themselves they have only good intentions, but so does every dictator and authoritarian regime in history.
i also never totally bought the idea of a cure. assuming the doctors are even right about being able to extract and isolate and recreate whatever it is in Ellie that makes her immune, which is a pretty big assumption, then how do you synthesize and mass-produce and distribute that in such a fucked up world? with no factories, no chemical plants, limited supplies, no long-distance transportation system, and so on and so on? and just because the FIreflies are opposed to the fascist FEDRA doesn't mean they're saints themselves. maybe they just use their limited supply of vaccine to save themselves and become the new group in power. they can tell themselves they have only good intentions, but so does every dictator and authoritarian regime in history.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
one other thing about that cure: i may be confusing game and show a bit here, but the Fireflies are never really clear about whether they're planning to make a cure, or a vaccine. they reference each at different times, but there's a big difference between a vaccine and a cure. a vaccine would only save people who aren't already infected, whereas a cure could potentially save some (obviously not all) infected people too, presumably people who haven't been infected very long, or who have only just recently been bitten/infected. there would be issues with making either one work on a large scale, but what's more important here is that the uncertainty i think points to the fact that Fireflies are overselling what they can actually accomplish. they aren't even sure which of these, if either, is possible. i think there's a bit of wishful thinking on their part, that may not be justified, and they're fooling themselves a bit with hope, probably because they have to convince themselves too, in order to justify taking a teenage girl's life.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
And this is where you get to the point of overthinking a made-up reality! (not YOU specifically).TheBaxter wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:48 pm one other thing about that cure: i may be confusing game and show a bit here, but the Fireflies are never really clear about whether they're planning to make a cure, or a vaccine. they reference each at different times, but there's a big difference between a vaccine and a cure. a vaccine would only save people who aren't already infected, whereas a cure could potentially save some (obviously not all) infected people too, presumably people who haven't been infected very long, or who have only just recently been bitten/infected. there would be issues with making either one work on a large scale, but what's more important here is that the uncertainty i think points to the fact that Fireflies are overselling what they can actually accomplish. they aren't even sure which of these, if either, is possible. i think there's a bit of wishful thinking on their part, that may not be justified, and they're fooling themselves a bit with hope, probably because they have to convince themselves too, in order to justify taking a teenage girl's life.
Certainly can't cure someone who has fungus growing out of their heads. And btw, how are these people "surviving" and not rotting away due to malnourishment, being affected by the elements, etc? Again... overthinking...
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
yeah, like most of these things, it falls apart when you think about it too much.
i'm just gonna chalk it up to photosynthesis since fungi are like plants*.
* fungi aren't plants and don't do photosynthesis.
i'm just gonna chalk it up to photosynthesis since fungi are like plants*.
* fungi aren't plants and don't do photosynthesis.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
I just started watching the season. In the first episode, the epidemiologist on that '60s show says something about fungus being able to preserve their hosts since penicillin is derived from a fungus or whatever. I assume that's the explanation they're going with.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
Good catch (although its BS still, but at least they tried!)Ribbons wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:44 pmI just started watching the season. In the first episode, the epidemiologist on that '60s show says something about fungus being able to preserve their hosts since penicillin is derived from a fungus or whatever. I assume that's the explanation they're going with.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
have you played the game? i sure hope you have if you're reading these posts before watching the show.Ribbons wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:44 pmI just started watching the season. In the first episode, the epidemiologist on that '60s show says something about fungus being able to preserve their hosts since penicillin is derived from a fungus or whatever. I assume that's the explanation they're going with.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
Nope. I have thoroughly spoiled myself. But I'm trying to move past that.TheBaxter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:08 amhave you played the game? i sure hope you have if you're reading these posts before watching the show.Ribbons wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:44 pmI just started watching the season. In the first episode, the epidemiologist on that '60s show says something about fungus being able to preserve their hosts since penicillin is derived from a fungus or whatever. I assume that's the explanation they're going with.
Re: HBO's The Last of Us
whatever you do, avoid any discussion of Part II/Season 2. there's still time to save yourself.Ribbons wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:22 amNope. I have thoroughly spoiled myself. But I'm trying to move past that.TheBaxter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:08 amhave you played the game? i sure hope you have if you're reading these posts before watching the show.Ribbons wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:44 pmI just started watching the season. In the first episode, the epidemiologist on that '60s show says something about fungus being able to preserve their hosts since penicillin is derived from a fungus or whatever. I assume that's the explanation they're going with.